Also Nekusar, the Mindrazer doesn't do commander damage when he deals damage from the draw. That was ruled out because of how easy it was to abuse Niv-Mizzet.
The flavour text on Mutavault "Some changelings born at Velis Vel never return, but their essence never leaves." suggests that this cave is actualy the origin of the changling race and so, it spits out changelings when it becomes a creature?
I got a Relentless Rats EDH deck. It plays 30 copies of Rats. There are a lot of Rat Support cards, like * Thrumming Stone: whenever you cast a rat, reveal the top 4 cards and cast every other copy of Relentless Rats (and yes, that triggers Thrumming stone again) * Bloodbond March: whenever you cast a rat, return every other copy from the Graveyard to the battlefield * Ratcatcher: in your upkeep search your library for a rat * Marrow Gnawer: all your rats have fear, and Marrow Gnawer has T: sac a rat, get X 1/1 rat tokens where x is the number of rats you have * Sphinx of Chimes: Discard 2 rats to draw 4 cards. * Patriarch Bidding: return all rats from the Graveyard to the Battlefield and of course Pack Rat. I also pretty much have Serge's deck as a Commander deck, because I'm a soulless bastard and I had a foil Death Cloud and wanted to use it somewhere. Mine is Mono-black though and Nether Spirit is the only creature. I play a ton of self-animating stuff though.
Highlander started out in Seattle as a 150-card format, although that version may be completely defunct by now. Anyway, someone took the effort to ask Sheldon Menery about Relentless Rats. He said something along the lines that Relentless Rats only modifies normal deckbuilding constraints, and that restrictions for particular formats override Relentless Rats' exemption. I've heard that this carried over into the German version of Highlander and I believe it's also part of Commander and the Magic Online "100-card singleton." You guys on your mystical island across the strait can do what you want, of course. But there seems to be precedent for not allowing multiple copies of Relentless Rats in Highlander formats.
***** Under the official rules for commander it does say that, "a player can die from 21 points of combat damage from a particular commander". So yes it does have to be combat damage. Non-direct damage from a commander does not count towards the 21.
Cephalid breakfast: the deck uses cephalid illusionist and either shuko or an en-kor creature to infinitely loop triggers- milling yourself. Serge: shuko can target and equip to the creature it's equipped to already. Graham: the "breakfast" comes from legacy's tendency to name combo decks after breakfast foods... don't ask me where *that* comes from, but it's a thing.
I can answer this, but it's pretty weird! The deck that seems to have started the trend was "Fruity Pebbles." This deck used Enduring Renewal and Goblin Bombardment for infinite damage, but names like "Renewal Bombardment" seemed lame, so it got a silly nickname, probably based on the fact that it used several colors and also maybe because Shield Sphere is vaguely pebble-like. Then the deck was modified in 1999 or so to use some of the better search cards to assemble the combo, including a Survival of the Fittest engine as an alternate kill (it could also grab Academy Rector). For some reason (maybe because it had a lot more green cards), this version was called "Wheaties." Another modified version, using the same engine to kill, played black cards and used Necropotence to dig up the combo pieces. Because it was a new take on Fruity Pebbles, but had more black cards, it was named "Cocoa Pebbles." The idea of using Necropotence to dig up combo pieces, instead of using it as card advantage in control decks, was a pretty big deal back in the day. It was used alongside Illusions of Grandeur + Donate. Because previous combo decks had used breakfast cereal names and Illusions of Grandeur had a white rabbit on it, this deck became known as "Trix." Possibly inspired by "Wheaties" and the other breakfast-themed deck names, a combo deck using Survival of the Fittest and Volrath's Shapeshifter was created and named "Full English Breakfast." The creator said this was "because it's full of fat and much nicer than boring old cereal." A deck using Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist, and Starlit Sanctum to gain infinite life was named "Life" because that's exactly what the deck was all about and it fit in with the breakfast cereal trend anyway. All of those decks predated Legacy (which was formed to replace the old Type 1.5 format), by the way. They were mainly played in Extended, which was really popular back then. In 2005, people modified the "Life" deck to use an alternative combo with Cephalid Illusionist. These decks could still gain infinite life, but they could also use the Nomads en-Kor to target Cephalid Illusionist for full self-milling, then flashback Krosan Reclamation to get Exhume and play Exhume to get Sutured Ghoul getting rid of a couple Krosan Cloudscrapers, and use Dragon Breath to have the Ghoul swing for lethal damage. This modification to the original "Life" deck was called "Cephalid Life." When the Cephalid Illusionist combo took over and the lifegain cards were cut from the deck, it couldn't be "Cephalid Life" anymore, so, in keeping with the breakfast theme, it was just "Cephalid Breakfast." Decks using Second Sunrise with Helm of Awakening, Skycloud Egg, Darkwater Egg, and Sungrass Egg got lots of names, but primarily the archetype was called "Eggs: Sunny Side Up." That one even works independently of the breakfast-theme tradition for combo decks. I mean, it has artifacts that are literally eggs and the card that brings them back has the sun in its name. But at some point, after I lost track of it, the deck kept being called "Eggs" even though it didn't have any eggs in it anymore because they got dropped when the deck was adapted for Modern (leading to the bit in Friday Nights with Alex cracking the egg onto a plate). Legacy does have at least one deck all its own that it added to the breakfast tradition: Oops, All Spells! (a play on the "Oops! All Berries!" version of Cap'n Crunch) was, as far as I know, first conceived as a Legacy deck. There are some more obscure decks that could be considered to be part of this tradition, but those are the main ones. And I think it's all because someone thought "Fruity Pebbles" would be a good name for an Enduring Renewal deck. So yeah, pretty weird.
In my Teysa deck, i played T3 Tangle Wire into T5 Braids, and my entire play group just gave me dirty looks and scooped. I bought a 12 of beer to make it up to them this week.
I went to a modern PTQ last March and ran a relentless rats deck. Ogre slumlords, pack rats, thrumming stones and rest was swamps/ relentless rats. Was insane.
An enchantment that says "Enchanted creature gains flying. Sacrifice enchanted creature: deal damage equal to enchanted creature's power to target creature or player" would fit in very well in Theros flavoured as the Wings of Icarus. Maybe it would make more sense as as equipment.
Actually, the way Equip works, you can use the Equip ability on the creature that is currently equipped with the equipment. Nothing happens if you do that, but the end result is that you can use Shuko's ability as many times as you want if you control only one creature.
a similar deck to the pox deck serge was describing is the stax deck from vintage, it abuses all the fast artifact mana to power out all kinds of nasty things like tanglewire and trinisphere. Check it out they're pretty interesting, most don't run any non permanents mainboard.
In the Rat conversation: Ravenous Rat is 1B for 1/1, player discard. You guys talked about Relentless Rats(gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=73573). Thanks for your work guys ! Keep up !
I think Serge is talking about the question posted by Nick in California judge group, and to whose that like judge questions, here's the full version: You control a Thessa, God of the Sea and three Cloudfin Raptors without any +1/+1 counters, you cast another Thessa, God of the Sea, state what happens.
I have a rules question, how does First Strike and Deathtouch work. Does it just instantly kill the other creature when it is deals first strike damage or is the other creature allowed to deal regular damage.
EDH/Commander is super popular in France but as a competitive 1v1 format called Duel Commander. We even have our own version of the rules (for example, you start at 30 life instead of 40) and our own banlist (among other things, winter orb is banned but primeval titan is not and for commanders Edric is banned but Kokusho is not). The downside is that some decks are just Highlander decks with a token commander that just fits the color (or a 5 color commander) and that it's harder for casual players to start playing EDH if they don't have a group of friends to play with.
You forgot the best Splice onto Arcane-Combo. You could Splice Desperate Ritual on Lava Spike, spend 3 mana for that and get 3 Mana, and then you could copy the Lava Spike with the spliced spell for 3 mana with the izzet guildmage (played that in standard back then), was a pretty cool infinite combo
You can use dragonstorm to find changelings. If you get a high storm count you could find a bunch of the common changelings. Granted they are only 2, 1 cmc changelings and 1, 2 cmc changelings; so I mean it would still be hard to get value out of dragonstorm in draft, but it's possible without getting any dragons.
opening night draft of modern masters i drafted a red black goblin deck that happened to get kokusho, and ryusei, also had dragon storm, but not in the main deck. sided it in against thallide since they clogged the board to hold out, suspended rift bolt to make my storm 2 and get both dragon legends in, which is good because i was about to draw kokusho.
Goblin Jet Blast 2RR Instant Target creature gains flying until end of turn. At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice that creature, it deals damage equal to it's power to target creature or player. "Goblin attempts at flight continued leading to fascinating and catastrophic results."
They've moved some of their equipment around to in order to do more live streaming on twitch.tv New equipment should be coming in soon so they can display cards again.
My piss off deck is Drogskol reaver, Trostani, Rhox faithmender, centaur healer, thragtusk, resto angel, healer of the pride, sphinx's revelation, and chalice of life//death.
Fated Conflaguration DOES in fact state 5 damage to target creature or planeswalker. It IS a real thing now. Of course this means you can not dome a player for 5 using the card. I suppose that is the intended drawback
I just saw Ornate Kanzashi for the first time. someone got unlimited untaping of artfacts and unlimited mana and played all 5 other players whole decks
I know. Some of the cards they think are bad just make me shake my head, especially considering they all have formats they don't even play. Ornate Kanzashi sounds disgusting against a deck that has a lot of scrying and whatnot, so the cards they're trying to use end up being used by you. :D
commander damage is only inflicted by combat damage, if its not combat damage then its not general damage, if it was i think everyone would kill the person who created nekusar
Judge question: i have life and limb in play making saprolings tokens forest if i use Woodwraith Corrupter ability to make a sapoling/forest token in to a horror creature dose it stop being a forest
WE ARE ALL SCRUBS AND KEPT SAYING THE WRONG RAT.
We meant Relentless Rats. Sorry everyone.
Also Nekusar, the Mindrazer doesn't do commander damage when he deals damage from the draw. That was ruled out because of how easy it was to abuse Niv-Mizzet.
But you're OUR scrubs, LRR.
:D
The flavour text on Mutavault "Some changelings born at Velis Vel never return, but their essence never leaves." suggests that this cave is actualy the origin of the changling race and so, it spits out changelings when it becomes a creature?
I got a Relentless Rats EDH deck. It plays 30 copies of Rats. There are a lot of Rat Support cards, like
* Thrumming Stone: whenever you cast a rat, reveal the top 4 cards and cast every other copy of Relentless Rats (and yes, that triggers Thrumming stone again)
* Bloodbond March: whenever you cast a rat, return every other copy from the Graveyard to the battlefield
* Ratcatcher: in your upkeep search your library for a rat
* Marrow Gnawer: all your rats have fear, and Marrow Gnawer has T: sac a rat, get X 1/1 rat tokens where x is the number of rats you have
* Sphinx of Chimes: Discard 2 rats to draw 4 cards.
* Patriarch Bidding: return all rats from the Graveyard to the Battlefield
and of course Pack Rat.
I also pretty much have Serge's deck as a Commander deck, because I'm a soulless bastard and I had a foil Death Cloud and wanted to use it somewhere. Mine is Mono-black though and Nether Spirit is the only creature. I play a ton of self-animating stuff though.
Alex calls Defenestrate from Midnight Hunt 8 years in advance.
Highlander started out in Seattle as a 150-card format, although that version may be completely defunct by now. Anyway, someone took the effort to ask Sheldon Menery about Relentless Rats. He said something along the lines that Relentless Rats only modifies normal deckbuilding constraints, and that restrictions for particular formats override Relentless Rats' exemption. I've heard that this carried over into the German version of Highlander and I believe it's also part of Commander and the Magic Online "100-card singleton."
You guys on your mystical island across the strait can do what you want, of course. But there seems to be precedent for not allowing multiple copies of Relentless Rats in Highlander formats.
Really excited to watch highlander, sounds super awesome. Thanks dudes!
no on the nekusaur front. Not commander damage, only combat damage counts as commander damage.
I was under the impression commander damage had to be combat damage.
it does have to be combat damage
***** Niv Mizzet, Dracogenious...
Johnny Cogs That's not an argument, all you did was name a card.
***** Under the official rules for commander it does say that, "a player can die from 21 points of combat damage from a particular commander". So yes it does have to be combat damage. Non-direct damage from a commander does not count towards the 21.
Johnny Cogs just kills with full damage, not commander damage. See also: Kaervek and the aforementioned Nekuzar. commander damage is combat only
Cephalid breakfast:
the deck uses cephalid illusionist and either shuko or an en-kor creature to infinitely loop triggers- milling yourself.
Serge: shuko can target and equip to the creature it's equipped to already.
Graham: the "breakfast" comes from legacy's tendency to name combo decks after breakfast foods... don't ask me where *that* comes from, but it's a thing.
I can answer this, but it's pretty weird!
The deck that seems to have started the trend was "Fruity Pebbles." This deck used Enduring Renewal and Goblin Bombardment for infinite damage, but names like "Renewal Bombardment" seemed lame, so it got a silly nickname, probably based on the fact that it used several colors and also maybe because Shield Sphere is vaguely pebble-like.
Then the deck was modified in 1999 or so to use some of the better search cards to assemble the combo, including a Survival of the Fittest engine as an alternate kill (it could also grab Academy Rector). For some reason (maybe because it had a lot more green cards), this version was called "Wheaties." Another modified version, using the same engine to kill, played black cards and used Necropotence to dig up the combo pieces. Because it was a new take on Fruity Pebbles, but had more black cards, it was named "Cocoa Pebbles."
The idea of using Necropotence to dig up combo pieces, instead of using it as card advantage in control decks, was a pretty big deal back in the day. It was used alongside Illusions of Grandeur + Donate. Because previous combo decks had used breakfast cereal names and Illusions of Grandeur had a white rabbit on it, this deck became known as "Trix."
Possibly inspired by "Wheaties" and the other breakfast-themed deck names, a combo deck using Survival of the Fittest and Volrath's Shapeshifter was created and named "Full English Breakfast." The creator said this was "because it's full of fat and much nicer than boring old cereal."
A deck using Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist, and Starlit Sanctum to gain infinite life was named "Life" because that's exactly what the deck was all about and it fit in with the breakfast cereal trend anyway.
All of those decks predated Legacy (which was formed to replace the old Type 1.5 format), by the way. They were mainly played in Extended, which was really popular back then.
In 2005, people modified the "Life" deck to use an alternative combo with Cephalid Illusionist. These decks could still gain infinite life, but they could also use the Nomads en-Kor to target Cephalid Illusionist for full self-milling, then flashback Krosan Reclamation to get Exhume and play Exhume to get Sutured Ghoul getting rid of a couple Krosan Cloudscrapers, and use Dragon Breath to have the Ghoul swing for lethal damage. This modification to the original "Life" deck was called "Cephalid Life."
When the Cephalid Illusionist combo took over and the lifegain cards were cut from the deck, it couldn't be "Cephalid Life" anymore, so, in keeping with the breakfast theme, it was just "Cephalid Breakfast."
Decks using Second Sunrise with Helm of Awakening, Skycloud Egg, Darkwater Egg, and Sungrass Egg got lots of names, but primarily the archetype was called "Eggs: Sunny Side Up." That one even works independently of the breakfast-theme tradition for combo decks. I mean, it has artifacts that are literally eggs and the card that brings them back has the sun in its name. But at some point, after I lost track of it, the deck kept being called "Eggs" even though it didn't have any eggs in it anymore because they got dropped when the deck was adapted for Modern (leading to the bit in Friday Nights with Alex cracking the egg onto a plate).
Legacy does have at least one deck all its own that it added to the breakfast tradition: Oops, All Spells! (a play on the "Oops! All Berries!" version of Cap'n Crunch) was, as far as I know, first conceived as a Legacy deck.
There are some more obscure decks that could be considered to be part of this tradition, but those are the main ones. And I think it's all because someone thought "Fruity Pebbles" would be a good name for an Enduring Renewal deck. So yeah, pretty weird.
TheStephenation
I can't believe UA-cam let me post that gigantic comment! They used to cut me off at some point.
In my Teysa deck, i played T3 Tangle Wire into T5 Braids, and my entire play group just gave me dirty looks and scooped. I bought a 12 of beer to make it up to them this week.
James's voice calling out Magmaquake felt like my internal yelling somehow breaking through into the podcast to correct you guys.
I went to a modern PTQ last March and ran a relentless rats deck. Ogre slumlords, pack rats, thrumming stones and rest was swamps/ relentless rats. Was insane.
Yay, more TTC
I love this podcast
Tallowisp is pretty sweet. I used it in my first properly designed deck - a Spirit Tribal deck to go find Call to the Kindred.
An enchantment that says "Enchanted creature gains flying. Sacrifice enchanted creature: deal damage equal to enchanted creature's power to target creature or player" would fit in very well in Theros flavoured as the Wings of Icarus. Maybe it would make more sense as as equipment.
Actually, the way Equip works, you can use the Equip ability on the creature that is currently equipped with the equipment. Nothing happens if you do that, but the end result is that you can use Shuko's ability as many times as you want if you control only one creature.
FINALLY someone else thinks the original Mishra's factory looks like the Keebler Elf factory!
a similar deck to the pox deck serge was describing is the stax deck from vintage, it abuses all the fast artifact mana to power out all kinds of nasty things like tanglewire and trinisphere. Check it out they're pretty interesting, most don't run any non permanents mainboard.
In the Rat conversation: Ravenous Rat is 1B for 1/1, player discard. You guys talked about Relentless Rats(gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=73573).
Thanks for your work guys ! Keep up !
I think Serge is talking about the question posted by Nick in California judge group, and to whose that like judge questions, here's the full version:
You control a Thessa, God of the Sea and three Cloudfin Raptors without any +1/+1 counters, you cast another Thessa, God of the Sea, state what happens.
I have a rules question, how does First Strike and Deathtouch work. Does it just instantly kill the other creature when it is deals first strike damage or is the other creature allowed to deal regular damage.
So no word on that Highlander Vancouver stream?
EDH/Commander is super popular in France but as a competitive 1v1 format called Duel Commander. We even have our own version of the rules (for example, you start at 30 life instead of 40) and our own banlist (among other things, winter orb is banned but primeval titan is not and for commanders Edric is banned but Kokusho is not). The downside is that some decks are just Highlander decks with a token commander that just fits the color (or a 5 color commander) and that it's harder for casual players to start playing EDH if they don't have a group of friends to play with.
So where can we watch the livestreamed highlander matches?
Hey Graham.
Every single Changeling.
Dragonstorm.
You forgot the best Splice onto Arcane-Combo. You could Splice Desperate Ritual on Lava Spike, spend 3 mana for that and get 3 Mana, and then you could copy the Lava Spike with the spliced spell for 3 mana with the izzet guildmage (played that in standard back then), was a pretty cool infinite combo
Mishra's Factory is like Mastermold from X-Men. It's a giant robot that produces other robots!
You can use dragonstorm to find changelings. If you get a high storm count you could find a bunch of the common changelings. Granted they are only 2, 1 cmc changelings and 1, 2 cmc changelings; so I mean it would still be hard to get value out of dragonstorm in draft, but it's possible without getting any dragons.
Blunt Jittes are how grandmasters punish bad pupils
Great show! Now I'm craving EDH :(
Can we get the Serge Fun police decklist?
I need the decklists for this madness! Please post your stuff.
Every time they say they'll post it on their forums I go to look, and every time it's NOT THERE. ;-; Whyyyyy~?
opening night draft of modern masters i drafted a red black goblin deck that happened to get kokusho, and ryusei, also had dragon storm, but not in the main deck. sided it in against thallide since they clogged the board to hold out, suspended rift bolt to make my storm 2 and get both dragon legends in, which is good because i was about to draw kokusho.
Actually in MM draft, it's possible to use desperate ritual into dragonstorm for 2 and find some sweet changelings.
Where is that stomp the judge episode? :(
I cannot find it...
Peter Weikert It just might :D
Thanks
This sounds like a recipe for disaster
Is the Serg Deck list in the forums???? Can you post it pls?
can we please get a deck list for that hate deck?
Doesn't commander damage have to be combat damage?
"Hello, this is cave?"
Just want to say, EDH is absolutely massive in the Sacramento/Davis CA region.
Can we get a list of the pox deck?
Mycosynth Lattice + March of the Machines + Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Target Kiora each time using her +1, and she's invincible.
Kiora can't target herself. The "an opponent controls" part unfortunately makes that impossible. If she could, she would be broken
Goblin Jet Blast
2RR
Instant
Target creature gains flying until end of turn. At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice that creature, it deals damage equal to it's power to target creature or player.
"Goblin attempts at flight continued leading to fascinating and catastrophic results."
Mycosynth Lattice, March of the Machines, Planeswalker, and experiment Kraj. Can Kraj use the planeswalker abilities?
Nekusar Draw damage is not commander damage, commander damage only counts commander damage. Giving nekusar infect will work however.
Dunno if LRR will see this or not, but on the topic of Relentless Rats. Thrumming Stone.
Pretty nice, but it is not Ravenous Rat... It is actually Relentless Rats.
Nekusar represent!
An Question in earlier episode you are screening the cards in the middle why are you doing these not more.
They've moved some of their equipment around to in order to do more live streaming on twitch.tv New equipment should be coming in soon so they can display cards again.
ah ok i don´t know it thanks for the information
My piss off deck is Drogskol reaver, Trostani, Rhox faithmender, centaur healer, thragtusk, resto angel, healer of the pride, sphinx's revelation, and chalice of life//death.
Ogre slumlord gives all rats deathtouch e_e
there are way more than 6 dragons in Modern Masters (changelings!).
blademane baku and gnarled mass!
Fated Conflaguration DOES in fact state 5 damage to target creature or planeswalker.
It IS a real thing now.
Of course this means you can not dome a player for 5 using the card. I suppose that is the intended drawback
as others have pointed out, commander/general damage only counts combat damage. if you want to be an ass with nekusar, try grafted exoskeleton
Thrumming Stone + Shadow born apostle, you're welcome world
It's funny hearing them not believe that Fated Conflagration is a real card.
Serge looks like Simon Cowell... but younger.
Cloudstone Curio + 2 kobolds (any of the three 0 drop kobolds) = infinite storm.
I've dragonstormed for 3 in Modern Masters, getting Kokusho, pardic dragon and nothing.
Rumor of buy a box confirmed check it on wizards
Serge has made the forced fruition deck i always wanted to make ^.^
I just saw Ornate Kanzashi for the first time. someone got unlimited untaping of artfacts and unlimited mana and played all 5 other players whole decks
That card actually has been going in my decks for years. There's nothing I love more than winning with my opponent's cards.
I know. Some of the cards they think are bad just make me shake my head, especially considering they all have formats they don't even play. Ornate Kanzashi sounds disgusting against a deck that has a lot of scrying and whatnot, so the cards they're trying to use end up being used by you. :D
commander damage is only inflicted by combat damage, if its not combat damage then its not general damage, if it was i think everyone would kill the person who created nekusar
Relentless rats?
Fated Conflagration
1RRR
Instant
Fated Conflagration deals 5 damage to target creature or planeswalker. If it's your turn, scry 2.
fox are too noble to be ninja. they're samurai instead
gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=50459
There's the combo - cool!
Mutavault=Sarclacc Pit
Judge question: i have life and limb in play making saprolings tokens forest if i use Woodwraith Corrupter ability to make a sapoling/forest token in to a horror creature dose it stop being a forest
ninjitsu creatures are supurb with small creatures with deathtouch. e.g. annnny rat