What's funny is mill actually was hilariously possible in Standard at the tail end of Ravnica/Theros standard. I actually won a couple standard FNMs with a U/B modal control-mill deck led by Ashiok and Phenax. You played a lot of early game disruption (Thoughtseize) as well as walls (Murmuring Phantasm, Hover Barrier, Wall of Frost,) as well as a playset of Desecration Demons for pressure. Ashiok comes in quickly, disrupts your opponent's draws and can net you creatures later on (I had him at a 3-of), as well as 1 Traumatize (you could maybe run 2, or 1 in board) and 2 Jace, Memory Adepts. Additionally, a suite of the finest Counterspells/disruption available. Dissolve, Doom Blade (and even boarded in Devour Fleshes to deal with protection), just as many counters/removal/disruption, typical control fare. Then, with Traumas, Ashioks, Jaces (the occasional Nightveil Spectres) serving one route, Phenax busted the deck wide open. Suddenly, all of your walls (and pre-combat Demons) are milling for an aggregate well in the 20s and 30s. Hold board control until Phenax hits the board, mill them for 20-30 on their end step. Do it again on your own turn, and extend the hand. One could argue that it was essentially a U/B control deck with Phenax as a win-con, but hey, if you win by your opponent having no cards in their deck, I'd call that a mill deck. Not saying it was airtight, but as an experiment in interesting control decks, it did surprisingly well.
A win con that worked really well in a mill deck of mine was splashing red to put Deviant Glee in and putting it on Consuming Aberration or Wight of Precinct Six, giving them trample. At the point that I got that I usually had milled enough to just straight up swing for lethal with that.
I just played Eternal Dominion with a Hive Mind in play in a 4 player commander commander game. Which meant two things, everyone played a copy of Eternal Dominion on their upkeep while not being able to play anything else and everyone at the table instantly hated me. I was so very very happy.
at 0:57:10 when he talks about fast decks then the opponent stabilizing, i remember playing a casual match with a friend using an aggro boros deck, getting the him down to 1 life while i still had 17 and then losing the match. its the problem ive found with that deck, once you lose momentum its hard to come back
I forgot the exact reason, but Eight and a Half Tails was originally a kitsune with 9 tails, but cut off half of one of his own tails as penance for something. and I believe he used Tetsumasa, the Dragon Fang (the legendary sword that could turn into a dragon) to do so, though I could be wrong on that part.
I'm sure it's in the comments somewhere already but there are so many. As far as milling with the Theros portion of Standard I've had a lot of fun with returned centaurs as walls and then journey to the underworld to either bring them back or use them as the sac to bring back another one if possible.
51:20 actually, the card is called "Mind Sculpt" and it doesn't do the thing that would make sense from a flavor perspective (that is to say jace, tms ultimate)
Mill was always a combo focused deck when I played. You were either artifact blue with plenty of recurring creatures, or heavy control. Just looking at some cards that mill in recent sets, its more worthwhile now than when I played. Ambassador Laquatus, traumatize, millstone or grindstone. That was most of your choice.
I also play a Dimir-Mill-To-Kill-Deck, using Consuming Aberrations in combination with Aqueos Form for unblockable ridiculous amounts of damage :) Also using many of the cards mentioned, like Psychic Strike for control and Omenspeaker for setting up your combos+early defense and so on^^
I played a multi-player game which on turn 2, I got a consuming aberration and I kept it alive by constantly giving it undying and bringing it back from grave! It was hilarious because the more that they tried to kill it, the more they got milled for trying to kill it! XD
There are plenty of things you can do after epic, just can't CAST spells. Lands can be played, effects like Mercadian Lift, discard for effect like Overtaker, copy the spell with Mirari/Echo Mage/etc.
fun options for the mill deck: dimir charm and dimir guildmage add some two drops. Nighveil specter could also give you some advantage on the board while milling/waiting for the big bombs. Also, wight of precinct six is good, And the 1/1 deathtough card from theros (eidolon something) might also be a way of stalling, even though it doesn't mill in itself
Enduring Ideal (the white epic spell) was used in standard. It took Top 8 in Worlds. You typically went after different packages depending on the match up, but often went for Form of the Dragon. Even now, Enduring Ideal is a good Commander card to find combos and lock people out of games.
I'm sure this was mentioned already, but it amuses me that you all found Enduring Ideal awful when, in fact, it was the best one and the only one that ever saw tournament play. Putting Form of the Dragon onto the battlefield was pretty good.
Where is the video of that Limited Resources vid called "How to draft a control deck"? I've tried to scour UA-cam and particularly the MTGOAcademy channel, but can't find it.
When they were having the discussion about Spiritual Visit I kept thinking but this card is brilliant and wonderful. Thats possibly due to the fact that I'm running it in a spirit tribal EDH deck which does contains enough cards that interact with arcane and spirit cards to make more spirits and then Coat of Arms and Door of Destinies make all the 1/1s big REALLY quickly
To Graham: You mentioned he played God's Willing so I'm guessing that your opponent didn't want to choose pro-white because he had a pump that could kill Daxos post declare blockers. His long thought process could've been from decided if it would work.
Are these available in a pure audio from anywhere? My phone stops videos when the screen is turned off and it sometimes gets buttons/screen pressed in my pocket.
wight of precinct six consuming aberration and things like that are great cards in mill, i have a mill deck that uses jace phantasm which gets bigger when you mill some, thought scour is good and tome scour
I once entered the state of Magic Nirvana in a 2hg Commander game. My ally was playing a disgusting 5 color control deck, I was playing an Azorius lockdown deck. After 10 or so turns of holding down the board, my ally managed to essentially quadruple his mana with a caged sun, mana reflection and the mana doubling card from kamigawa, had a Vedalkin Orrery in play to flash in a grand total of 4 epic spells, as the "can't cast" clause doesn't take effect while the spells are on the stack, and spells on the stack resolve. So for the rest of this game, my opponent was stealing cards from their deck, removing cards from their deck, tutoring for more powerful enchantments and getting an army of snakes. It was glorious.
My current standard deck is Dimir mill. I like running early Wights of Precinct Six, augmented by Shadow Alley Denizen and Paranoid Delusions, and having an engine in place until I throw down Consuming Aberration and/or Mind Grind. It doesn't win by mill, it wins by making huge/huges and hitting guys with it.
I feel like *if you're trying to do a Mill Deck*, cheap defenders and doorkeeper are a nice addition. But that's more a White Blue mill, where you have more flying defenders. Cheaper though, and comes at a cost of losing a lot.
I concur. Doorkeeper, clone, wall of frost, wall of swords, etc, can get very nasty very quick. 3 mana to mill for 6-12 every turn. Then another 3 mana to do it again? Yeah, mill works VERY well like this.
Also a fox with 9 tails is said to be omniscient and immortal (so god like) and becomes that way after 9000 years of life, every millennium they grow a new tail from birth... at least that is what I have read about Shinto myth
Which epic spell would pair best with Pyxis of Pandemonium? My mind goes to Neverending Torment, since you'd be removing the risk of putting your opponent's good cards into play (Pyxis also just plays so well with Black to begin with).
As far as I know, Enduring Ideal was the only Epic card that had a competitive tournament deck based around it (primarily played in one of the old Extended rotations and it was also used a bit in Legacy until the novelty wore off and/or the format became too fast for it). The combo was to use Enduring Ideal to grab Solitary Confinement, Honden of Seeing Winds, Dovescape, and Form of the Dragon (in whichever order the opponent was least likely to be able to stop). I think you guys have it backwards on the Epic cards. Superficially, Eternal Domination and Endless Swarm might seem more powerful, but Enduring Ideal more easily capitalizes on synergy with a deck built to use it.
I actually run the deck they were describing it's Esper colors and the general plan is to fill up the graveyard and then swing with the aberration unblockable using artful dodge or rogues passage. it's super gimmick-y and but a lot of fun especially when it gets rolling. final note it is Innistrad, M13, and RTR cards only.
I got a zombie mill deck which works very good. Undead alchemist puts zombies on the battlefield whenever you mill them, so you get some broad presence also.
Enduring Ideal isn't awful, it's actually the best Epic spell and the only one to see tournament play - in a powerful Tier 1 deck built around it, no less.
Liliana's Reaver and aqueous form are good additions. It builds your ranks and answers a few problems. Either the Reaver or Aberration benefit from aqueous form.
I actually came up with a really good mill deck that got me top 4 out of sixty-five people and consisted of the following cards 4x Mind Grind 4x Breaking//Entering 4x Wight of Precinct Six 4x Psychic Strike 4x Duskmantle Seer 4x Nightveil Specter 4x Duress 3x Whip of Erebos 3x Consuming Abberation 2x Thassa, God of the Sea 2x Traumatize 2x Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker 4x Temple of Deceit 8x Swamp 8x Island If anyone has any question of to why I may some cards that don't make since, just ask and I'll tell you my main reason it's in the deck.
Luke Winchester No, as the ability reads: When Burning-Eye Zubera Dies, if 4 or more damage was dealt to it this turn, Burning-Eye Zubera deals 3 damage to target creature or player", meaning taking 4 damage does nothing until it dies, meaning you cannot buff it to 3/5 upwards to keep a permanent lightning strike going.
The mill issue. I actually got a pretty decent deck from someone in a trade that was based off of zombies/mill. There were 4 wight of precinct six (+1,+1 for every creature in your opponents graveyard) along with a number of other zombies to support, including diregraf captain and other cards to destroy creatures on the field/counter them for cheap.
I know it's been a while since this was posted, but I have to point out the fact that of the all the Epic spells Enduring Ideal is the only one that ever saw successful constructed play. It's also the one they were like "this one just sucks."
Jake Golle Not really. He goes to 5 as he enters the battlefield. They'll attack him down to 2~3ish. And at that point you can only play a 1 or 2 drop you exiled (if you even did). That's unlike Elspeth who just puts down a wall of three soldiers, or Vraska that destroys any creature attacking her.
Jake Golle Yes, but that's exactly the point about protecting itself. Elspeth can go down on an empty board cause she does, Ashiok needs some sort of protection because he doesn't.
Actually, i run a mill deck that includes white for fated retribution, utter end and supreme verdict. I also run Aqueous Form so if my opponent can't kill my Consuming Abberation (or wight of precinct six enchanted with nighthowler) i can swing for leathal and also mill the last cards needed to get it to 20 power. In addition, i found that ashiok's ultimate isn't so great when it also kills the creatures that protect her.
Re: Mill in standard. I'm not sure it could be done very well in current block, however, I made a very fun Blue/Black zombie milling deck built around Undead Alchemist during Innistrad block.
I tried building a defender mill deck on mtgo.. axebane guardians, doorkeepers, a few defenders and some large mill cards like mind grind, reap intellect, traumatize, and then consuming aberrations... It sucked
Eight-and-a-Half Tails originally had 9 tails, but let the kami into Kamigawa. As a punishment to himself he cut off half of one of his tails. - History of Kamigawa
you say that enduring ideal was bad, but back in the kamigawa standard it was a tier 2 deck. , fetching dovescape, then meishsin mindcage and form of the dragon would generally be gg. since seething song and mana rocks were around cast this spell was pretty common for turn 5.
i in the past have done like 9 damage with a black cat because my opponent didnt want to discard his counterspell so i just kept swinging in with the cat
So one really good use for the epic cards (specifically the blue one, but alll of them work) is copying them. If you copy it, then both spells Epic abilities trigger, so you cast 2 per turn. I saw someone win a EDH game by copying Eternal Dominion twice and then searching each players library each turn. So the trick with these is using blue cards like Twincast to do more than one per turn.
Oppressive Will was decent at the time, because Soratami has abilities that let you draw cards and return lands to your hand. There were also creatures that based their power and toughness off of your hand size, with one of them being double your hand size, and creatures that increased your hand size. Basically, in the set having a large hand size was a pretty legitimate strategy. Parasitic mechanics indeed!
The breezecaller and the moonfolk in general were combo enablers for this, as was the legendary creature that let you play multiple lands, and the creature that let you cast it for cheap by sacrificing moonfolk. Basically there was this whole B/G archetype that was based on keeping your hand size above 7 while still have the mana you needed. Its weird, because the whole deck did work in block, but the individual pieces looked bad even back then.
Now the Oboro Breezecaller might be nice in a deck with Nissa, Worldwaker (since her +1 gives you one of your lands as a 4/4 trample while remaining a land) then again, there are better cards for untapping those now..
Evoke vs Channel: Evoke makes it a spell after which the resulting creature is sacrificed. You get an ETB and LTB from that creature. Channel however does not. Channeling a card adds it on the stack as an ability of the card, not a spell. Which means you must use a precious (counter ability) (ie. Stiffle, Voidslime, etc) to deal with it making it much more powerful.
What's funny is mill actually was hilariously possible in Standard at the tail end of Ravnica/Theros standard. I actually won a couple standard FNMs with a U/B modal control-mill deck led by Ashiok and Phenax. You played a lot of early game disruption (Thoughtseize) as well as walls (Murmuring Phantasm, Hover Barrier, Wall of Frost,) as well as a playset of Desecration Demons for pressure. Ashiok comes in quickly, disrupts your opponent's draws and can net you creatures later on (I had him at a 3-of), as well as 1 Traumatize (you could maybe run 2, or 1 in board) and 2 Jace, Memory Adepts. Additionally, a suite of the finest Counterspells/disruption available. Dissolve, Doom Blade (and even boarded in Devour Fleshes to deal with protection), just as many counters/removal/disruption, typical control fare. Then, with Traumas, Ashioks, Jaces (the occasional Nightveil Spectres) serving one route, Phenax busted the deck wide open. Suddenly, all of your walls (and pre-combat Demons) are milling for an aggregate well in the 20s and 30s. Hold board control until Phenax hits the board, mill them for 20-30 on their end step. Do it again on your own turn, and extend the hand. One could argue that it was essentially a U/B control deck with Phenax as a win-con, but hey, if you win by your opponent having no cards in their deck, I'd call that a mill deck. Not saying it was airtight, but as an experiment in interesting control decks, it did surprisingly well.
I would pay good money for a sleep-deprived 5:00am TapTapConcede.
Want to play mill? Play Modern, not Standard.
Heeey!! I watch your videos all the time! They're awesome!
I think you mean commander lol😉
A win con that worked really well in a mill deck of mine was splashing red to put Deviant Glee in and putting it on Consuming Aberration or Wight of Precinct Six, giving them trample. At the point that I got that I usually had milled enough to just straight up swing for lethal with that.
I just played Eternal Dominion with a Hive Mind in play in a 4 player commander commander game. Which meant two things, everyone played a copy of Eternal Dominion on their upkeep while not being able to play anything else and everyone at the table instantly hated me. I was so very very happy.
7:13 They are all clearly fascinated by me. I feel so appreciated!
Enduring Ideal, the white Epic Card, is ironicly the only one that sees a bit of tournament play today.
at 0:57:10 when he talks about fast decks then the opponent stabilizing, i remember playing a casual match with a friend using an aggro boros deck, getting the him down to 1 life while i still had 17 and then losing the match. its the problem ive found with that deck, once you lose momentum its hard to come back
Inner fire sounds like it might work well with Barrel Down Sokenzan from the same set.
I forgot the exact reason, but Eight and a Half Tails was originally a kitsune with 9 tails, but cut off half of one of his own tails as penance for something. and I believe he used Tetsumasa, the Dragon Fang (the legendary sword that could turn into a dragon) to do so, though I could be wrong on that part.
I'm sure it's in the comments somewhere already but there are so many. As far as milling with the Theros portion of Standard I've had a lot of fun with returned centaurs as walls and then journey to the underworld to either bring them back or use them as the sac to bring back another one if possible.
51:20 actually, the card is called "Mind Sculpt" and it doesn't do the thing that would make sense from a flavor perspective (that is to say jace, tms ultimate)
I don't know what was in standard at the time of this video, but grisly spectacle for removal
I had a deck that used Swans of Bryn Argoll and Pyrohemia, and it's an extreme corner case, but Inner Fire is amazing in the right context....
there was a extended deck with enduring ideal the won with form of the dragon and had confiscate and ghostly prison as backup.
You can use oboro breezecaller to untap Karoo-lands.
Epic Spells were used guys! Enduring Ideal's decks in extended back in the day
Mill was always a combo focused deck when I played.
You were either artifact blue with plenty of recurring creatures, or heavy control.
Just looking at some cards that mill in recent sets, its more worthwhile now than when I played. Ambassador Laquatus, traumatize, millstone or grindstone. That was most of your choice.
I also play a Dimir-Mill-To-Kill-Deck, using Consuming Aberrations in combination with Aqueos Form for unblockable ridiculous amounts of damage :)
Also using many of the cards mentioned, like Psychic Strike for control and Omenspeaker for setting up your combos+early defense and so on^^
I played a multi-player game which on turn 2, I got a consuming aberration and I kept it alive by constantly giving it undying and bringing it back from grave! It was hilarious because the more that they tried to kill it, the more they got milled for trying to kill it! XD
Nelson DiCarlo Oh and for mill: Black Layline of the Void and Helm of Obedience = infinite mill + exile grave.
Nice headband, Kathleen!
thanks for the tips for the modern throwback draft MTGO.
There are plenty of things you can do after epic, just can't CAST spells. Lands can be played, effects like Mercadian Lift, discard for effect like Overtaker, copy the spell with Mirari/Echo Mage/etc.
You guys just got cooler in my eyes.
I recommend fog banks for a mill deck to hold off your opponents big creatures
I had a deck built around Eternal Dominion and Leyline/Eye of Singularity.
fun options for the mill deck: dimir charm and dimir guildmage add some two drops. Nighveil specter could also give you some advantage on the board while milling/waiting for the big bombs. Also, wight of precinct six is good, And the 1/1 deathtough card from theros (eidolon something) might also be a way of stalling, even though it doesn't mill in itself
Enduring Ideal (the white epic spell) was used in standard. It took Top 8 in Worlds. You typically went after different packages depending on the match up, but often went for Form of the Dragon. Even now, Enduring Ideal is a good Commander card to find combos and lock people out of games.
I'm sure this was mentioned already, but it amuses me that you all found Enduring Ideal awful when, in fact, it was the best one and the only one that ever saw tournament play. Putting Form of the Dragon onto the battlefield was pretty good.
Where is the video of that Limited Resources vid called "How to draft a control deck"? I've tried to scour UA-cam and particularly the MTGOAcademy channel, but can't find it.
you dont
I just saw Damia, Sage of Stone - you basically always have 7+ cards on hand. Would have a very nice synergy with some of those kamigawa cards!
When they were having the discussion about Spiritual Visit I kept thinking but this card is brilliant and wonderful. Thats possibly due to the fact that I'm running it in a spirit tribal EDH deck which does contains enough cards that interact with arcane and spirit cards to make more spirits and then Coat of Arms and Door of Destinies make all the 1/1s big REALLY quickly
To Graham: You mentioned he played God's Willing so I'm guessing that your opponent didn't want to choose pro-white because he had a pump that could kill Daxos post declare blockers. His long thought process could've been from decided if it would work.
Enduring Ideal is amazing with cards like paradox haze, copy enchantment, and form of the dragon. Its really good in red/white/blue colors.
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails was an aid to Konda who became aware of Konda's evil acts that angered the kami and so cut off part of his ninth tail.
Are these available in a pure audio from anywhere? My phone stops videos when the screen is turned off and it sometimes gets buttons/screen pressed in my pocket.
Looking back on this, it seems obvious that the white epic spell is completely the best one for modern
Back in this standard I ran a land count mill deck. i will load the list still fun to play even now
how on earth does Jace the Memory Adept get tapped?
wight of precinct six consuming aberration and things like that are great cards in mill, i have a mill deck that uses jace phantasm which gets bigger when you mill some, thought scour is good and tome scour
I once entered the state of Magic Nirvana in a 2hg Commander game. My ally was playing a disgusting 5 color control deck, I was playing an Azorius lockdown deck. After 10 or so turns of holding down the board, my ally managed to essentially quadruple his mana with a caged sun, mana reflection and the mana doubling card from kamigawa, had a Vedalkin Orrery in play to flash in a grand total of 4 epic spells, as the "can't cast" clause doesn't take effect while the spells are on the stack, and spells on the stack resolve. So for the rest of this game, my opponent was stealing cards from their deck, removing cards from their deck, tutoring for more powerful enchantments and getting an army of snakes. It was glorious.
Inner Fire is really good in the Niv-Mizzet deck. My brother has gotten upwards of 4o mana from it.
Just so you know, Enduring Ideal saw tournament play.
Form of the Dragon was I think 8th edition?
And remember that Ravnica was an enchantment block.
My current standard deck is Dimir mill. I like running early Wights of Precinct Six, augmented by Shadow Alley Denizen and Paranoid Delusions, and having an engine in place until I throw down Consuming Aberration and/or Mind Grind.
It doesn't win by mill, it wins by making huge/huges and hitting guys with it.
I feel like *if you're trying to do a Mill Deck*, cheap defenders and doorkeeper are a nice addition. But that's more a White Blue mill, where you have more flying defenders. Cheaper though, and comes at a cost of losing a lot.
I concur. Doorkeeper, clone, wall of frost, wall of swords, etc, can get very nasty very quick. 3 mana to mill for 6-12 every turn. Then another 3 mana to do it again? Yeah, mill works VERY well like this.
will you guys be at the oakland open?
Imagine you have one of the epic cards on the stack, you quicken another one, that would be really sick.
I like the idea that 8 and a half tails is what happens if you press 'B' when vulpix is evolving
Also a fox with 9 tails is said to be omniscient and immortal (so god like) and becomes that way after 9000 years of life, every millennium they grow a new tail from birth... at least that is what I have read about Shinto myth
I have done a Kamigawa Draft where Neverending Torment won me quite a few games
Which epic spell would pair best with Pyxis of Pandemonium? My mind goes to Neverending Torment, since you'd be removing the risk of putting your opponent's good cards into play (Pyxis also just plays so well with Black to begin with).
Szadek, Lord of Secrets is he a good commander if I protect him? etc?
I run a Kamigawa cube, and Elder Pine of Jukai is actually quite broken. Love the card.
Topic was mill...
Should have been broadcasting from the Nephalia Drownyard on the Plane of Innistrad
As far as I know, Enduring Ideal was the only Epic card that had a competitive tournament deck based around it (primarily played in one of the old Extended rotations and it was also used a bit in Legacy until the novelty wore off and/or the format became too fast for it). The combo was to use Enduring Ideal to grab Solitary Confinement, Honden of Seeing Winds, Dovescape, and Form of the Dragon (in whichever order the opponent was least likely to be able to stop).
I think you guys have it backwards on the Epic cards. Superficially, Eternal Domination and Endless Swarm might seem more powerful, but Enduring Ideal more easily capitalizes on synergy with a deck built to use it.
Oops, I meant "Eternal Dominion" when I typed "Eternal Domination."
I actually run the deck they were describing it's Esper colors and the general plan is to fill up the graveyard and then swing with the aberration unblockable using artful dodge or rogues passage. it's super gimmick-y and but a lot of fun especially when it gets rolling. final note it is Innistrad, M13, and RTR cards only.
I got a zombie mill deck which works very good. Undead alchemist puts zombies on the battlefield whenever you mill them, so you get some broad presence also.
Can't forget Consuming Aberrations :D
Enduring Ideal isn't awful, it's actually the best Epic spell and the only one to see tournament play - in a powerful Tier 1 deck built around it, no less.
Liliana's Reaver and aqueous form are good additions. It builds your ranks and answers a few problems. Either the Reaver or Aberration benefit from aqueous form.
Promised Kannushi is REALLY good when paired with Conspiracy naming spirits
I actually came up with a really good mill deck that got me top 4 out of sixty-five people and consisted of the following cards
4x Mind Grind
4x Breaking//Entering
4x Wight of Precinct Six
4x Psychic Strike
4x Duskmantle Seer
4x Nightveil Specter
4x Duress
3x Whip of Erebos
3x Consuming Abberation
2x Thassa, God of the Sea
2x Traumatize
2x Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
4x Temple of Deceit
8x Swamp
8x Island
If anyone has any question of to why I may some cards that don't make since, just ask and I'll tell you my main reason it's in the deck.
Enduring Ideal in Zur the Enchanter. nuff said
Kathleen's Tiger Roar 6:07 ^_^
Wouldn't Burning-Eye Zubera have its ability triggered twice if it was dealt 4 damage? First ofc from the damage, then again when it actually dies?
Luke Winchester No, as the ability reads: When Burning-Eye Zubera Dies, if 4 or more damage was dealt to it this turn, Burning-Eye Zubera deals 3 damage to target creature or player", meaning taking 4 damage does nothing until it dies, meaning you cannot buff it to 3/5 upwards to keep a permanent lightning strike going.
The mill issue. I actually got a pretty decent deck from someone in a trade that was based off of zombies/mill. There were 4 wight of precinct six (+1,+1 for every creature in your opponents graveyard) along with a number of other zombies to support, including diregraf captain and other cards to destroy creatures on the field/counter them for cheap.
holy shit you guys are the people who do desert bus for hope? thats incredible
I know it's been a while since this was posted, but I have to point out the fact that of the all the Epic spells Enduring Ideal is the only one that ever saw successful constructed play. It's also the one they were like "this one just sucks."
You know what goes well with Bow of Nylea? Thorncaster Sliver. It's super entertaining.
I have a tabletop (don't follow formats) mill deck. Isochron Scepter with Mind Sculpt. OP!
Scepter can only imprint Instants, actually.
the white epic card actually might be really good in an enchantment based commander deck. I will playtest it in my daxos the returned deck immediately
I did a draft a while ago, and there were 4 Mind Sculpts in the pool. ._.
Dying wish on consuming is a nice combination, then devour flesh it.
are Kat and Graham going out?
Looking back at this, Ashiok actually usually protects itself very well, as long as you hit their creatures.
Jake Golle Not really. He goes to 5 as he enters the battlefield. They'll attack him down to 2~3ish. And at that point you can only play a 1 or 2 drop you exiled (if you even did).
That's unlike Elspeth who just puts down a wall of three soldiers, or Vraska that destroys any creature attacking her.
That's why you play well and don't lay it down wide open to attacks
Jake Golle
Yes, but that's exactly the point about protecting itself. Elspeth can go down on an empty board cause she does, Ashiok needs some sort of protection because he doesn't.
Actually, i run a mill deck that includes white for fated retribution, utter end and supreme verdict. I also run Aqueous Form so if my opponent can't kill my Consuming Abberation (or wight of precinct six enchanted with nighthowler) i can swing for leathal and also mill the last cards needed to get it to 20 power. In addition, i found that ashiok's ultimate isn't so great when it also kills the creatures that protect her.
51:19 Mind Sculpt not Jace's Erasure
Re: Mill in standard. I'm not sure it could be done very well in current block, however, I made a very fun Blue/Black zombie milling deck built around Undead Alchemist during Innistrad block.
Y'all forgot that the Burning-Eye Zubera also combos with the other, lesser Zubera.
Forbidden Orchard also gives you a colorless groundbound spirit ;)
ummm Tolarian Academy is $22.50 there Cam, you know you want it.
paul in one of your friday nights videos you played an infect deck that won on turn two and i bought the deck its sweet.
I have a friend with a similar deck. Out of like 20 games, I've beaten him once.
Ima get the Eternal Dominion for my Riku Highlander deck, starting to get my opponents bombs and copying them seems legit to me...
Cheap & easy black grind = Tenacious Dead and Undercity informer, its not the best but it'll get you started.
I tried building a defender mill deck on mtgo.. axebane guardians, doorkeepers, a few defenders and some large mill cards like mind grind, reap intellect, traumatize, and then consuming aberrations...
It sucked
Was whip of erebos legal in standard at that time? Thats a good card as a reanimator !
MrWilddenim yup but the card wasnt seeing almost any play
the last FMN got me thinking, we need a Bird wizard vs Cat Knight duel deck
Eight-and-a-Half Tails originally had 9 tails, but let the kami into Kamigawa. As a punishment to himself he cut off half of one of his tails.
- History of Kamigawa
Eiganjo free-riders looks SUPER SWEET! I can put him in a W/U deck with a lot of ETB stuff. W/U has the best ETB stuff!
Little did they know there were no good spirits in that entire block
My friend uses the white one in his zedru commander deck. He uses it to make himself untouchable.
you say that enduring ideal was bad, but back in the kamigawa standard it was a tier 2 deck. , fetching dovescape, then meishsin mindcage and form of the dragon would generally be gg. since seething song and mana rocks were around cast this spell was pretty common for turn 5.
Inner fire would be completely insane at anything under 4.
Phenax plus Abberations is brutal
promised kannushi targeting obzadat or any of the legendary dragons from the kawigama block
i in the past have done like 9 damage with a black cat because my opponent didnt want to discard his counterspell so i just kept swinging in with the cat
So one really good use for the epic cards (specifically the blue one, but alll of them work) is copying them. If you copy it, then both spells Epic abilities trigger, so you cast 2 per turn. I saw someone win a EDH game by copying Eternal Dominion twice and then searching each players library each turn. So the trick with these is using blue cards like Twincast to do more than one per turn.
I play a kill-to-mill dimir deck. It uses consuming aberration, Lazav, and duskmantle guildmage's first ability to bring their life to 0.
Oppressive Will was decent at the time, because Soratami has abilities that let you draw cards and return lands to your hand. There were also creatures that based their power and toughness off of your hand size, with one of them being double your hand size, and creatures that increased your hand size. Basically, in the set having a large hand size was a pretty legitimate strategy. Parasitic mechanics indeed!
The breezecaller and the moonfolk in general were combo enablers for this, as was the legendary creature that let you play multiple lands, and the creature that let you cast it for cheap by sacrificing moonfolk. Basically there was this whole B/G archetype that was based on keeping your hand size above 7 while still have the mana you needed. Its weird, because the whole deck did work in block, but the individual pieces looked bad even back then.
Soulshift 7 = Kokusho?
Now the Oboro Breezecaller might be nice in a deck with Nissa, Worldwaker (since her +1 gives you one of your lands as a 4/4 trample while remaining a land) then again, there are better cards for untapping those now..
Evoke vs Channel:
Evoke makes it a spell after which the resulting creature is sacrificed. You get an ETB and LTB from that creature.
Channel however does not. Channeling a card adds it on the stack as an ability of the card, not a spell. Which means you must use a precious (counter ability) (ie. Stiffle, Voidslime, etc) to deal with it making it much more powerful.