Justin Welby's Gay Marriage Compromise Is AT LEAST 7 Years Old
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2024
- Glen Scrivener reacts to Justin Welby's recent appearance on 'The Rest is Politics', comparing it to his 2017 conversation with Alastair Campbell.
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Someone who says "I don't have a good answer for that" regarding homosexuality should not be Archbishop of Canterbury.
Absolutely
I disagree - when asked a loaded question, there isn't necessarily a 'right ' answer . I thing the Archbishop should have owned the line 'I can't give you a straight answer' and enjoyed the inuendo. This is Jesus does so well . 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. Unfortunately Christ allows his followers to remain human and not be as witty and wise at the same time.
That said, I think the Archbishop needs to keep the Gospel central in his approach to this topic - that sin is real and we are all called to repentance.
Sometimes I get angry that someone in such a high place is getting away with deviating from what the Bible teaches. Then I remember he will also be judged someday.
I just feel very misled & confused that the Archbishop shyed away from publicly condemning these things 1) Charles as an adulterer married an adulterer & a divorced woman whose EX HUSBAND Andrew Parker Bowles is still very much alive. And was even at the 1st row witnessing his ex wife who fornicated against the Prince who is been crowned is also crowned a Queen inside the Church of God. It’s very confusing to me. Why not with clean mind give the crown to his son William Archbishop is complacent.
2) in that same church where Charles was refused to be joined together with his mistress concubine, both were crowned there.
3) It is written a man & a woman shall become one nobody must put asunder. Charles as the head of the Church divorced young Diana for old Camilla. What’s the Church saying about that.
4) Princes Harry choosing to keep to his vows & followed his wife, his father ostracised him & some wants him dead for it. All these are confusing to me.
4) Archbishop did not ask for kindness towards Meghan who some were racist against. All these confused me as a Christian.
Regards.
We can't 'live differently' and be as courageous as the early Christians until we are willing to live as the early church did - I don't see anyone in my parish or those around me who want to live like Acts 5, or even a shade of it.
Is the original 2017 interview on UA-cam? This is fascinating. But I should really write my sermon now... Darn distraction machine that UA-cam!
Yes indeed. Save this for Sunday night tho... ua-cam.com/video/vwi2M1XifG0/v-deo.html
@@SpeakLifeMedia ua-cam.com/video/9Ps7AMmiSpc/v-deo.htmlsi=4487dYLFAraoaWtZ
@@SpeakLifeMedia ua-cam.com/video/9Ps7AMmiSpc/v-deo.htmlsi=4487dYLFAraoaWtZ
man and a woman.. simple, natural, and with a natural outcome... a baby.. a most Godly blessing
It relies on everyone being attracted to the opposite sex, being fertile and capable of raising children.
That's a simple model that has never fit reality. You don't find that model in the Bible and it doesn't fit today any better than it did in the Iron Age.
In my generation of my wider family we have two biological/step parent families, a gay family and an adopted family. Your model doesn't allow for any of these
*Yawn*. You people don't get to define what is "natural" and now quit preaching your fairytales
@@justhannah3960 by using the phrase @you people' I take it you mean those of us who do not wallow and enjoy depravity.
@@justhannah3960 disgusting behaviour.. sorry..
In recent years Gafcon Archbishops signed a letter sent to Welby for him to repent AND State marriage is ONLY between a Man & Woman. He still refuses Gods word.
Welby holds heretical views, and then has the nerve to say that there's still a place in the church for those that don't hold heretical views. It's unbelievable. Lord deliver us from these mad men!!!
I'm not protestant, or anglican, but thankfully the dwindling pews in the west may help fix this.
When conservatives are all that is left in the pool (because you won't be convincing the African Anglicans that this is biblical) they will be forced to take leaders from a Conservative pool. Things will get corrected eventually. There won't be enough Liberal westerners to stop the change.
One of the good, but also difficult, things in the Church of England is that it's a very broad church with a variety of views
He doesn't seem able to come into agreement with God's law. If he can't give a straight answer surely he can only give a crooked answer! Now looks as though his iniquity in rejecting the Word of God has fully deceived him and has taken him over. How sad.
What a marvellous educational podcast thank you Glen I'm hooked.
None of them have authority from God to redefine His law.
Thank you, really good response to the confusion of his thinking.
AMEN brother. Thankful for your winsome courage
I want to know WHY this is Justin's position- how he justifies this. Is it that he thinks the bible doesn't teach this? Is it thst he thinks the bible is irrelevant, less important than popular opinion, or plain wrong?
There often seems to be an assumption that we are more loving than God and know better than Him what this means in practice.
I feel like he may have more personal reasons for pushing something clearly not biblical...
if he identifies with such people, I can see why he would want to create a space like this for them in the church cause maybe if that place existed before he went into ministry, he wouldn't be there!
@@Nicole-kc1vx You may be right. I can't say. I'm not totally sure what you mean in your last sentence by "he wouldn't be there", though.
Whether any of that is the case, it would seem just ordinary common sense to have to justify his position. The same would apply if he took a different path to any other traditional Christian view, though obviously, this is a much noisier issue in the culture than many others would be.
E.g. When Peter went and stayed and ate with gentiles, and broke ancient tradition, he didn't just tell everyone that that was now how it was; he explained why he did what he did.
Yes I'd appreciate a further explanation - so far all I've got is an impression that bishops have been praying and talking and discerning, but there must be more to it.
I'm guessing they may have stated their case as part of LILAF? It's hard to find the time to go and read it all!!
Because he’s allowed in a load of gay bishops and they want to have sex with their spouses
Think he sees himself more as a politician whose job is to do whatever necessary to hold together disparate factions and views within the church. He's willing to make whatever compromises on church teaching and belief are necessary to accomplish that. He identifies that willingness with being loving, kind, tolerant, peaceful, etc.
I'm not a member of the Church of England, but this would honestly make it difficult for me to stay if I were. Ironically, I'm pretty sure most of the Anglican Communion (at least most members worldwide) reject the Archbishop's position, but the institutions in England have supremacy, apparently. Does anyone think there's a chance for a more conservative Archbishop of Canterbury in the future?
I'm Church of Ireland and they certainly don't follow his lead on this.
@@infinitelyexhausted Good. It's probably best for people to stay and resist. The more liberal churches are dying out faster, so maybe holding the fort will allow taking them back, but the institutions controlling the CoE seem to be very liberal, look at what happened to Calvin Robinson.
Eh. A lot of the Church of England in western countries is lukewarm on gay sex/marriage. The Anglican Church in most of the African nations are very anti and it’s causing a huge rift as a result
I very much doubt it. Those next in line to the Archbishop of Canterbury for example Stephen Cottrell are as liberal as Welby is. It’s worth pointing out that many conservative complimentarian evangelical C of E churches submit to Bishop of Ebbsfleet Rob Munro, so there’s already a certain degree of separation irrespective of whether the next Archbishop is a liberal or a conservatives
@@mjh277Do you know about Peter Akinola?
"To the astonishment and dismay of Anglican leadership in the Global North, Nigeria's Archbishop Peter Akinola led the Global South's revolt against the campaign to normalize homosexuality within the global Anglican communion."
Glen. I am one of those people who cannot say I believe in Jesus. That's because I know him. It's a bit like saying I believe in my mother or father. Leave that aside. I am also one of those people who cannot say I believe in gay marriage. Back in the 1980's the Church practice at the for homosexuals was to pray for your healing. I asked about this on the day of my conversion Sept 1983. And went with 'the process'. Three years later totally assured that God had taken me through and to healing, I got married. It took ten years. Ten years for the marriage to fail in it's utter aridity. My wife was destroyed. I was totally so. I had destroyed her.
And the Church showed me the door. I had failed. And for some reason no one wanted to speak to me any more. My very many friends were embarrassed. I learned how it was to be excommunicated. Not doctrine, just people. And people doing unloving sinful unGodly things to other people. That's why Jesus died for me. He loved me. And that's why now I been married wonderfully to a loving man. For twenty years. The grace of God. Look. See. Ask yourself. And ask God.
Thank you for sharing that. there is a lot of hate towards homosexuals online by so-called 'Christians'. I'm glad to hear you've been in a loving relationship for so many years. Was there a point in your journey when you finally felt at easy about your sexuality and how did that come about? How do you respond to people who say you can't be a gay and Christian? (usually bringing up the six clobber passages from Scripture)
@@DanSmith01ave Hi. I was OK with my sexuality before my conversion - I came to London to be with my man. I was 27 - he 25. Together from 1979 to 1983. On the day of my conversion - Jesus first. The Church of course was happy to help me be healed. I ditched my man for the Church. After three years I thought that being confident and growing in a 'real' marriage was part of my healing journey. A marriage made for hell. Divorce, shame, thrown out.
Lesson? When the Church decrees matters on sexuality and marriage, Synod may have upheld it's doctrine and kept the Church together - but destroyed people in it's folly. I am blessed with my partner - husband. Together for 22 years- and in all that we have known Jesus taking us through all the problems. Absolutely amazing .
Of course many will say no gay and Christian. The evidence though is in Jesus. Is there pride, hate, in those who accuse? Or love? The pharisees tested Jesus - the woman caught in adultery. He had his answer for their law. So tell them about Jesus. I was able to ignore the arrogance and the ignorance of the haters long time ago. (Sorry to say that). But simply - I know Jesus and He loves me and Matthias...Praise be...Thank you Glen . Listen hard for/ about Justin. The haters will be in force now. As they were for Jesus. Crucify! Blood please. .....
@@jtrevm Thank you for sharing your story. It's always interesting to hear somebody's lived experience. All the best for the future and I hope you have a lovely Christmas period.
God bless,
Daniel
Thank you Glen. I agree with your assessment.
How on earth did anyone miss this back in 2017?
It wasn't really missing it.
Back then Justin was ambiguous.
Glen is looking back now and reinterpreting Justin based on what we now know (and really that interpretation is pretty touch-and-go even with that knowledge). But we didn't know that back then.
@IamGrimalkin
Not sure I agree here.
True, we should be generous towards those who hold different positions and understanding of those in challenging roles in they public eye, but Welby's shortcomings were exceedingly clear from day one.
Most who didn't see this choose to ignore it because our Christian culture is much more lenient towards those who make errors on the left than on the right. like Welby himself, people who missed this largely gave up their better judgment not to rock the boat
Absolutely Glenn, marriage (as in one man, one woman) is woven from beginning to end in scripture, and it is no wonder Satan attacks it so much and sadly Justin Welby has been an unwitting advocate on this behalf. Oh how much there needs to be real Christian men to rise up and proclaim the truth that is the word of God to give a bright light to a dying world.
It’s because all religions and mean all religions coming together under one umbrella called coexist.
You can see the pressure of the world view screaming for acceptance..... And Justin and the rest are no longer representing God in any way.
Thank you Glen
It’s not ambiguous, he said “we as the bishops.” 8:50 “ABC’s and bishops, not a majority” not all the houses, not a majority - absolutely clear! You are being dishonest saying he is not being clear and reading into it your perspective.
I attended a local LILAF session a few years back. It was run by a vicar who read as gay (idk maybe my gaydar was off but that was my impression) and attended by older boomers atoning for the sin of growing up in a homophobic culture - lots of "well so and so is gay and they're lovely" sort of sentiments. I thought it was sweet and well run and such, but it felt a bit 1990s (... well, apart from the trans stuff, as that wasn't so much a thing then) in tone.
I thought there was all but zero understanding of what it's like growing up in a sexually permissive culture (I turned 16 in 2001).
"Refugee of the sexual revolution" is a pretty accurate description of me. There were no guardrails.
I'm genuinely curious (because I have no firm position on these questions) what Welby would make of open marriages - they're committed and loving and long term and between two people, just that those people find genuine fulfillment by including others in their lives, sometimes romantically, sometimes sexually.
What about a marriage of three or more people? I realise that's not UK law, but I suppose as an interesting hypothetical. We know open and poly and pan etc happens outside of marriage (though it's hard to know how much common acceptance there is at the mo).
What about a marriage where both parties agree to very happily and consensually abuse one party for kicks (it happens, generally under the 'consent and no (lasting) harm' ethic).
I'm also unsure what the bishops would say of marriages involving other genders (not male and female - agender or non binary etc). Furries. I can guess they'd say it's fine but the chat always seems to just focus on L and G relationships for some reason.
I'd prefer if the church came out hard for respect for both men and women in relationships (you have no idea how many people find that their 'genuine' sexual expression is violent or disturbing in some way), no sex before marriage, marriage as a preferred model, compromise and sacrifice for another being a virtue, and a real recognition of the difference between men and women.
It seems like church authorities in the CofE have little understanding of what 'no guardrails' is, in reality. It's very possible that I'm missing a large part of what the bishops are doing in relation to LILAF. If so my bad. But... I would hope they would spend at least as much energy as they have on the gay marriage question, looking into how to encourage those relationship guardrails back into place.
Not really a comment on gay marriage per se, I'm not qualified to comment on that.
Maybe I should ask my local vicar on his views - like, I don't know how accepting of my partner and me he would be. I'm not married to my partner (straight relationship, we have kids together). I'd be interested to have the chat, but it's too awkward. I can kinda guess what he'd say and (whilst I recognise I'm in the wrong to say so!) guessing his view is good enough for me right now. I'm guessing he'd say, you should get married, but don't worry too much and it's still fine to come to church and take communion and we're all friends here kind of thing. Which I think is (probably?) the right approach. He'd also probably say don't have sex until you're married. He'd have to ask or make implication about our sex life... Ugh. I'll spare us all. And yes, I realise I'm continuing to live in sin. I know that.
Sorry for the long comment.
Thanks for the video.
Your comment is interesting and stood out to me. I have some questions. Since you shared some private thoughts, maybe you don't mind me asking, but if you don't want to answer, I understand that as well. I'm confused because you seem to want the Church of England to uphold marriage and no sex outside of marriage while you say you don't live that out yourself and partake in communion? You seem to see yourself as Christian, though I'm not sure if it is more of a tradition and you're interested in Christianity or if you already believe that Jesus died for your sins to give you a new life so you can know God and serve him. Do you personally trust in Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
Again, ignore my comment, if you don't want to answer.
May God bless you!
@annikadamaris8068 Yeah it's a mess. I'm not saying otherwise!
I met my partner when we were both just vibing with cultural norms. Hooked up, played house a couple of years, had a kid, went through a wobbly patch, had more kids. The Christian thing came up about the time of our second child, and we've been exploring that. We go to church, we read the bible at home, we try to live right (you know in terms of how you treat others, local charities, obv not the marriage thing!).
Marriage just won't happen for us - I'm not saying that's right but that's just the way it is.
I did explain to my local vicars (CofE) when we first went that in terms of communion - I'm not even baptised. There were two, they both said don't worry - you can still take communion. I've not discussed my relationship status tbf (as above it seems too awkward).
We sometimes go to a pentacostal church (better Sunday school for the kids). I explained the same to them - not baptised so don't think I should be taking communion, and for them they're like, ok, sure, don't take communion then.
I feel ambivalent because I really don't know if it's right to take communion but the CofE said it's ok (accepting I've not raised our relationship status, just lack of baptism) and I'm not in a position to argue, theologically speaking I don't have a clue about the arguments either side of that question.
Idk.
Like, I really dk.
I'm not going to get baptised any time soon. I'm going to carry on going to church with our family, imperfect as it is. I'll take communion with the CofE, and I won't with the pentacostals. I'm going to carry on thinking stuff through, and try to live right (as best I can!). Idk if I'm a Christian or not. I suppose that uncertainty is part of why I'm not baptised yet!!
I would like to be able to say Jesus is my Lord and saviour, but how can I say that when I'm in this kind of mess? What does it mean to say I'm going to follow Christ, but ignore part of his teaching because it's inconvenient to me. It doesn't add up.
I suppose at some point there will be a resolution one way or another, but at the moment we're just in a mess.
Writing this out - maybe that's why I was a bit frustrated by LILAF, because I don't think it really spoke to my situation so didn't help me personally. With cohabitation rates being so high, I can't be the only one, but the focus seemed to be gay people (unless I'm missing something, I haven't followed it super closely).
You've encouraged me to ramble, so I'm blaming you for the length of reply lol 😂
@@littlelights6798 Thanks for the reply. No, you're not rambling, it's hard to summarize your thought processes of several years in a few lines of a UA-cam comment.
Seems like you have had an interesting journey. I'm happy to hear your partner and you are on the same page regarding going to church, reading the Bible and teaching your kids about Christianity. I'm curious what made you be interested in going to church coming from a secular background, but again, only if you want to share.
I don't know much about LILAF, I'm not in the Church of England and not even in the UK, lol, but I do understand your frustration from what you've described. You're certainly right that cohabitation is much more common than homosexuality and all the other arrangements seem to be increasingly more common as well. Seems like there is a lack of clarity in the Church of England at the moment. I don't know if it's the fear of offending anybody or if it's because of theological changes, or both.
It's interesting that you still know the biblical morality regarding marriage and sexuality even though it doesn't seem to get clearly addressed in your local church. I have no idea how your vicar would answer some of these questions. I could only point you to relevant biblical texts. But that is because like Glen I do believe the Bible is still relevant for today and tells us what we need for our faith and practice. It seems like the more theologically progressive someone is, the more they question the authority of the Bible and emphasize "love" or "the (prayerful) reflection and discussion of the community" to come to conclusions that are in line with the zeitgeist. Again, I have no idea where your vicar stands on this.
I still have questions regarding your beliefs. Do you believe that Jesus died for our sins and that he rose from the dead? Are you uncertain about that? Or do you believe in Jesus and are just uncertain if you could trust him enough to follow him, especially where he challenges your lifestyle? You don't need to tell me, maybe that is a question you'd like to think about for yourself.
What do communion and baptism signify to you? I'm interested why you would do one but not the other.
Another question to think about for yourself (I realize this is way too personal): Why would marriage be inconvenient if you already live like a married couple? What would it change? Or do you plan to leave your partner after the kids are older?
I appreciate your thoughtfulness, that you don't want to be hypocritical and that you take what Jesus says seriously, that you don't try to redefine what he says to make it more convenient for you.
May God bless you.
Thanks Glen.
Very good commentary Glen
These Bishops, need to take a real in-depth look at The state of Christianity, in The Uk.
With 8% of People attending Church in The Uk.
Much has gone Wrong, Christians need to come to The UK as Missionaries from other countries..
To spread the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ! ✝️
They need Many Prayers to change their stance.. And To Bring God Back into The Church of ENGLAND! Z
The best bit is 37:00 onwards. Well put!
Very well said Glen.
Thank you, Glen - honesty, courage, faith, liberation, blessing, sanity, all at the foot of the cross: that's well said - let's pray it is so more and more.
I hate the double-minded but I love thy Law
Preach it brother!
When Justin says commitment is what counts and that’s all, you can see deep down he’s not comfortable saying it or believes this.
If this is the case he’s lying - false teaching and leading people into darkness.
"what the church of England teaches!" 😮
Why do I not hear...What the word of God teaches.
Theres an awful lot of what WE think...what WE believe, What WE teach....what THE CHURCH TEACHES...ETc... "the Churches position"
Justin Welby should be saying... Its not about MY opinion...
We accept GODS position, GODS mandate, for marriage.
Well its a false church, one that is falling away from God's word.
We SHOULD BE GOING STRAIGHT TO THE WORD OF GOD. WHAT GOD SAYS, WHAT HE MANDATES FOR MARRIAGE IS CRYSTAL CLEAR.
Anything outside of that is manmade, compromising with the world, adjusting the message of the word of God.
God is against gay sex, as well as fornication, adultery, polygamy, etc....all sexual activity outside what He created, because there are always harming consequences.
Just got the information that he resigned…
for Welby; the incarnation does not link with Jesus upholding and fulfilling the same moral law given to Moses that Welby is willing to compromise on , i.e. marriage as defined by God.
"He's not a JBP that's for sure..." the stones would cry out. :)
This has been prophesied.
God help him.
On point as usual, Glen. Very well articulated.
Hi Glen. To come back. Words like doctrine, Scriptures, conservative, etc etc help us with analysis, judgement and unfortunately with our angst and anger. And fuel our pride. I have been asked about my position about the Scriptures - and doctrine of the Church. For the latter, doctrine follows the way Jesus shows us. He went 'head to head' with the teachers of the Law in his day who wielded the Law against him, tested him. 'What do you say about this woman etc etc. They did not know He was the Word.
I tried to explain my experience of the Word this morning:
''Sorry Sharon. I didn't express myself at all well. When we come to Communion, and the Gospel reading - we stand and face the reader who at the end reminds us that this is the Word of God. By standing we acknowledge we are in a mysterious not just 'honorific' way in the Presence. And in the first chapter of the Book of John, we are told that the Word 'already existed , he was with God, and the same as God. From the very beginning the Word was with God. Through God made all things etc... read on. (TEV). NOTE - in one verse - John 1:1 'the Word' goes to 'he' not 'the'. The Person of God.
It took ages to find my way from 'a book' and then to God and to the source of the Word - and to the Presence of Jesus, day by day. And so often I forget to talk to Jesus ( the Word), and express myself as life presses in. He is always there for me. It always amazes me. Answers are rarely immediate. Results / fruit - yes. Mysterious ways.
The Scriptures are alive for me. Indeed I was really fortunate to hear sermons from a man of humility who knew the Word and Jesus and could bring them to us as a composite.
So in short - the Scriptures as you feel - should be alive to us. They are of God - they should carry God - and beyond belief into the presence of God. In that way - we are with God too. To answer your question therefore I can go to the entire Gospel of John. I can do no more. It was after reading it as a whole for the first time I was converted. 18 September 1983. C of E church in Twickenham''.
Phew. 'Good doctrine' should align as it can the 'Person' of Jesus. Not carved into stone as per Exodus. We are in Christ. It is He who can guide us as we encounter the wild ever-shifting wickedness of the world. Sex. Abuse. Hate. Pride. Persecutions. etc etc. It is Jesus we need. Not 'eternal doctrine'. And if guide there be - we must check if it is of the Guide and sheep are safe. As you say (?) plenty of wolves around us.
Finally those who pronounce against people - like Justin say - about things of decades ago - have to reckon on the norms of those days. Not of the outrageous - but eg of 'chatter' not chat -and say behaviour which hides. Literally - 'he needs a good hiding'. Or he should hang'. Or should be crucified. Norms allow wolves. I wonder what we do today are our 'innocent norms' which emerge in thirty years time as cover-up rather than 'in those days'? We are in the Presence of one who knows us. He made us. Blessings. Trevor
Brilliant
Glen, as an American who has watched most of your videos, I've wanted to ask you for a long time what it would take for you to make the decision to leave the Church of England. Do you see a glimmer of hope persuading you to stay and work for the good of the Church? If not, what would be the final straw for you?
Although Glen is an Anglican, I'm not sure that he is part of the CofE. I could be wrong though
2:48 A conversation taking place by a hearth cold and dead.
That's your opinion
I wish we were better at putting our hearts and brains into gear before we pontificate. I think you'll know what I mean.
I feel Welby wants to be popular to all thus sits on the fence in a PR way. Then as the western views on marriage is made gender neutral, he then points his compass to the way of the world. Which is against scripture.
Above all else, scripture can in no way be changed to suit the way of the world. The church has to sustain the gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s why there is to always be a separation between church and state. Because the way of the world will always be Self scented and self gratifying but the way of God will always be the same yesterday today and tomorrow.
He still didn't answer the question, about the sinful nature of this act/practice before the sight of God and this should be the focus because at the end of the day, this is truly what will destroy your eternal salvation to damnation, not politics, not the split in the church. Church is you and me, the individual living temples for a holy and devouring God. They mealy mouth when in reality they are hellbent on deceiving the flock. God will not be mocked and Jesus is Lord. This
Man is an unbeliever. No believer will represent their Redeemer prevaricating as he is doing. He has already chosen his redemption and wide indeed is the path.
Glen I agree with your position because it is biblical, not because it is the teaching of the Church of England. You talk as if the Church of England is a homogeneous body in terms of what it believes and teaches but that is disingenuous. I wish the whole of the Church of England embraced conservative evangelical theology but it's not. Why else would Spurgeon scratch his head at J.C. Ryle staying on or Lloyd-Jones have challenged John Stott to come out?
So, if you are seeing everything through Jesus, what exactly did Jesus say about gay marriage? Be specific please. Chapter, verse where Jesus says "gays cannot be married."
As a standard it is important to present your opponent in their best light not their worst. I like Glen but thought he didn’t do this well, I’ve seen better and more generous examples of it from non Christians such as Alex O’Connor. You need to up your game Glen.
I agree with the principle you state. How exactly did he misrepresent?
@ See my comment earlier. The ABC is clear that he is stating he and the bishops’ view and that this is not a majority. This about 8:50. See Glen’s response.
@johnandrews1162 thanks. Maybe I'm mishearing the ABC, but sounds like Welby says "by a majority but not unanimous" not "not a majority".
@ Thanks for this. He is simply stating what it takes 2 mins to look up. The proposals passed by 22 votes to 12 in the House of Bishops, by 99 votes to 88 among clergy and by 95 to 91 among the laity. There is a majority in all three houses but it is not unanimous. He is not conflating his own views here as Glen suggests.
I still don't see what Glen supposedly did wrong. He was honest.
What exactly are your orthodox views of the church founded on the family values of Henry VIII?
This comment has been edited.
lots of anglicans becomeing catholic these days.
He is leading the blind, and himself to hell....
Satan attends counterfeit marriages.
Do a basic study video of genuine marriage for us to view. We need a thorough understanding of the words 'groom' and 'bride'. Where did these words come from? What other meanings do they have? How do these words interact with each other?
Is bent & twisted the new definition of straight?
Well he does the whole glossolalia thing so....
David David was confused and unclear in my opinion.
He bends his knee to HIS Lord(SATAN).
Oh I do hope the new Archbishop is a Christian ✝️ 😊
A bit disappointing...a long video to say very little!
Welby et al believe in a Democracy of Heaven. Not a Kingdom.
Huh. Nice and succinct. I'm guessing if put to him Welby would disagree. I'm guessing the bishops have been discerning the spirit (?) and so following an authority. It's confusing when authorities disagree!
Many a Kingdom has become a Democracy - thank God.
You can’t accuse him of dishonesty or lack of courage if you missed it in 2017
the lack of honesty I refer to is about communicating his private views in the 2024 podcast as though it represents the position of the church.
@ I can’t agree he does that. See my other comments. I think you are reading in things he doesn’t say, he makes it explicitly clear around 08:50 that it is the house of bishops and not a majority. When he means his personal view he makes that clear.
@johnandrews1162 but his personal views don't tie in with the teaching of the Church of England.
@@HearGodsWord sometimes God throws in a maverick just to stir things up a bit and tell us we don't always get it right ... e.g. Jesus
@@kevinskippon9927 Jesus spoke truth though!
You don't seem to properly acknowledge the distinction between church and state.
State marriage: Complete equality under the law
Church marriage: A matter of conscience. Define it how you like, but don't enforce your beliefs on others.
You’ve still got to have a definition of marriage. Call it civic or sacred or whatever you like. If marriage is a thing you’re going to have to have a definition of marriage and “enforce your beliefs” on others. 🤷♂️
@@SpeakLifeMedia
State Marriage: Between you and your state.
1. A legal commitment between 2 or more parties consecrating their love.
2. A legal document that comes with tax incentives to encourage families, having children (gays adopt), and creation of the next generation.
Church Marriage: Between you, your community, and your God.
A personal & spiritual commitment of love between you, your community, and your God.
Not a legal definition, but a personal definition. None of these definitions involve enforcing anything on others. Gay marriage only affects the people getting married and their loved ones they chose to share it with, just like any other kinda marriage.
@@humanperson8418Under your state definition of marriage, a father and son could get married... or two brothers. I think you might want to tighten it up... and think about on what moral basis you are doing so.
Also.. you can't 'consecrate' a legal commitment whilst simultaneously claiming to be secular. Consecration is a religious act.
@@fletcherchristian6522thanks for posting the reply. It shows how slippery liberals are.
Wait… one man, one woman? What about Jacob? What about David? What about Solomon?
That Anglicans aren’t fundamentalists isn’t news. Anglicans aren’t sola scriptura. For 5+ centuries Anglicans have taken scripture, tradition and reason seriously and take Jesus at his word that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth.
Sorry-his clarity is precisely the result of a growing clarity among many churches in the Anglican Communion.
It’s NOT a “casual” redefinition of marriage. It also not simply a “private” opinion of the ABC. It’s an expansion of the understanding of marriage that is growing out decades of the churches in the Anglican Communion reading scripture, praying, and discerning together.
In fact, if he were being “conservatively scriptural” as you understand it, he WOULD be FOR the death penalty for same sex behavior-Leviticus 20:13.
Everything you say here about same sex marriage you could say about women’s ordination.
Jesus down graded lots of punishments down from death. He stopped the stoneing of a women for adultaery a clear death sentence. Afterwards the desiples teach repentance and lesser punishments. The only sactioned Death sentences i know of are for Murder and unrepentent Blasmapthy or the active worship of Demons and Evil Dietys.
As for Marrage the same Jesus who down graded adultary said we can only have one man and women couples getting marryed. He said men and women should have choice in who they marry and marry for Love. So arranged marrages the norm at the time was not encoraged. The poligamy and concubines were also not encoraged by Jesus even thoe legal and common in the old testement. Also Jesus made devorce harder and someone has to do wrong to allow devorce, Jesus is more complex than many know.
Jesus is the one who changed it from no final punishments for most things and only man women marrages. Marrying for love is a Christian thing not a pagan tradition. Look at African and South American tribes for arraged marrages still taking place. Hindus, Muslims and Dowists stil have arranged marrages in 3 quaters of the world.
The death penalty is still used in countrys for adultery but you need two witnesses. Not every country is as easy going as ex christian and Christian countrys.
Teaching on these aspects is not strong in some parts of the Church.
Also the Church says to have descernment. If a spirt tells you something and it goes against the Bible and tradition it is wrong and was an evil spirt talking to you.
Not everything new is correct.
(edit to read better)
@@BeachandHills-hb2pqThanks for the reply. I have to say I find this stuff confusing. You tube comments sections is probably not the best place for me to find answers but I appreciate that you took time to put a response in because it gives me more info and perspectives.
@@littlelights6798 Thank you for the nice reply. YT can be hard to find information. Some pepole teach but most toy with the ideas and dont explain. If you search on a topic you sometimes come across YT channels who can explain. Or do it the hard way and read on the topic LOL. Any way Have a good week 😃
@@BeachandHills-hb2pq yeah... unfortunate for me, but reading is probably the way to go. Whilst I think about that I'll search for relevant UA-cam vids 😬😂
You have a good week too!
Welby is a complete waste of space
Not for liberals. For them, he's a useful instrument
Appreciate your videos and insight but I’m always disturbed when you talk about LGBT stuff. Feels regressive
Thanks for encouragement, genuinely. At the end of the day I really think the progressive sexual revolution was the one that Jesus preached in Matthew 19. That’s the sexual revolution that truly liberates and leads to human flourishing. I think the sexual revolution of the 1960s is the regressive one - a return to ancient views of sex, gender, marriage, abortion.
Not everything that presents itself as ‘progressive’ really is.
@@SpeakLifeMedia I agree that Christ's new way of sexuality was innovative and likely even the best way to experience it. However, I don't think that equates to a morality. By the 1960s, Christ's view of sexuality had sunken so deep into our cultural conceptions that it was being enforced through suppression and violence. The sexual revolution was a response to this repression. In the end, I think we should be able to lead with truth alone, and anytime truth is being enforced with violence or law we should become skeptical of it.
I really don't think we can find a univocal sexual ethic from scripture. Paul tells us not to marry at all. I think we should take what we connect to in scripture as likely good advice, but not use our newfound sexuality as grounds for condemning others.
@@UKnightedGames1234just genuinely curious here - if Paul says people should avoid marriage if they can, and then has a hetero view of marriage, I'm unsure how that would open up to gay marriage being ok - just from a reading of the scripture (not taking account of evolving traditions or prayer and discernment etc)? Interested in this, if you can be bothered on explaining further! Thanks
@@littlelights6798 That point was a tangential example just to show that scripture itself doesn't have a consistent prescription for sexual ethics, in my opinion. I just don't think you can read the text and infer one acceptable way to be. I certainly think some interpretations may point to some strong suggestions of ideal sexual lifestyles, but I don't think that extends to a strict moral code.
@@UKnightedGames1234 sure, ok - and yes, appreciate it wasn't the main thrust of your comment! Thanks for the reply 👍
Always interesting hearing the internal discussions of a weird death-cult.
The only weird thing here is your comment
Does anyone seriously think that Jesus would care if someone is gay or not? I mean, really?
Are you serious?
The Bible has a lot to say about sexuality.
Have you ever read the bible? Jesus cares about a lot of things you would probably think isn't important...
The answer is Yes. If you think otherwise, you're a heretic. Which you probably are anyway.
He says way more about the dangers of wealth than sex.
Standing with scripture seems to be selective. The Christian church is obsessed with sex but ignores what the bible says in other areas. Women being the property of men, acceptance of slavery, death penalty for rebellious children, rejection of people with physical disabilities, tolerance of rape, uncleanliness of menstruation, endorsement of war and many others. The Bible is full of contradictions, so how do you decide which parts to follow and which parts to set aside in the interests of modern morality? Could it be that your position on gay people is more a matter of your own prejudice against them rather than a biblical calling?
On the contrary, it's the culture obsessed with sex. The Bible's moral law has never changed.
Part of your comment simply describes the fallen nature of man, something the Bible describes but doesn't condone. Other parts indicate you are confused about the difference between the moral law and the ceremonial law which was fulfilled in Christ.
@@HiHoSilveyI'm probably confused by that as well. Loving your neighbour is hard when it's not clear what the loving thing to do is. I'm no theologian, I know very little, and I do find this area confusing. Somewhere else in the comments someone asked whether Jesus would care if someone was gay. I don't know!!
@@HiHoSilvey Sounds clever stuff. Or is it just clever you?
At last some sensible exegesis. But I bet they won't let you get away with it.
All of your points apply just the same to liberal and progressive theology as it does to traditionalist theology.