The DANGER of trying to outplay a narcissist
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 лис 2023
- ORDER MY NYT BESTSELLING BOOK 📖 "IT'S NOT YOU"
smarturl.it/not-you
JOIN MY HEALING PROGRAM
doctor-ramani.teachable.com/p...
JOIN THE DR. RAMANI NETWORK
www.drramaninetwork.com
GET INFO ABOUT MY UPCOMING PROGRAM FOR THERAPISTS
forms.gle/1RRUz41eWswjw63o6
SIGN UP FOR MY MAILING LIST
forms.gle/Bv9GNuMSR55PKTjQ6
LISTEN TO MY NEW PODCAST "NAVIGATING NARCISSISM"
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/2fUMDuT...
Stitcher: www.stitcher.com/podcast/how-...
iHeart Radio: www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-n...
DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT.
Trying to outplay a narcissist is like underestimating a narcissist. Never underestimate a narcissist. They will say and do things that you would never stoop to doing. The drama isn't worth it.
p.w., I totally understand what you're saying. I did not know about narcissism back then, so I went off on him, then left. If I knew then what I know now, my exit would have been peaceful! Take care
I was going to pipe in but p.w pretty much nailed it. 🎯
Well said.
Yes, I've been dealing with this but I had to knock him down a peg in an attempt to get back some of the thousands he owes me. He is smearing me as a result, but he's so hurt that he's made comments and sent me texts that would go against him in court re a romance scam claim.
Exactly the mental gymnastics and physical exertion end exhaustion is not worth your time.
Normal people aren't willing to go to the levels most narcissists do! They are relentless!
I did it, I'm not narcissistic, just had the upper hand and exposed them to everyone they knew and then I dipped
@@deadislander Same. I tore his life apart with one long text & some pictures. It'll be a year November 30th and he's still living the consequences of what HE did that I exposed him for...and, guess what? 6 days after I exposed him, he got a new text# ( I'd blocked him) and contacted me. Now He Knows what I'm capable of.
@@deadislander 👍😉
@@deadislanderVery risky game confronting a narcissist publicly like that. You probably haven't seen the end of this, they just make you think you have.....
Never sink to their level. 😣
One of the sickest things about them is they believe they have a right to their anger and spewing it all over you all the time. If you try to give them a taste of their own medicine, they see that as an unprovoked assault, and plan revenge for it. They never acknowledge their own continual venom as the precursor. They're insane.
It's not just narcissists you have to avoid. Checkout the Borderlines!
Angela, I agree with you 100%..👍
Great description, perfect, just run the hell on!!! Run swim drive fly, whatever it takes!!!
@@johnnycorn7225 LOL! I 😉💪
Insane dirtbags
So right. The narcissist will always escalate in vindictiveness to a point that a normal person doesn't have the stomach to continue. My father once told me, "never play the other person's game; they're better at it than you are." Especially true with narcissists
Always remember that you have moral limits. You have a stopping point that your soul just won't let you go past. A narcissist doesn't. They will only ever continue to escalate.
Very well said! Thank you!
Spot on.
Excellent! I just reached mine after 13 years. I see a new me emerging.
All people have limits, until they are pushed to far. What is wrong with unleashing horror on person who made significant harm and yet legally is absolutely clean?
@@BojanPeric-kq9etI mean, beyond being criminally charged, taken from your freedom and life, and whatever moral ramifications you feel you will suffer …. Not sure 🤔
It's the same as trying to show them how they are hurting you. The only thing that will happen in the end is they will blame you, make you out to be the problem, and you end up losing more in the end. It's not worth it. The only way to outplay them is to disengage and walk away
Exactly. Any energy you give them is wasted energy.
We are on the same page.
Exactly. I wrote about my mistake, above.
If you try to explain how much they hurt you, it rewards them and makes them happy that they succeeded, so you're just perpetuating your own future misery.
And when they have your child ……
I had this issue with my narcissist sister. But ultimately I realized I’d have to be as obsessed, nasty, deceitful and conniving as she was. I had to let it go. As your videos on proverbs reminds us, “Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it"
👍🏼👍🏼🖖🏼🖖🏼🤺🤺
@cameroncameron2826'Your sister, huh'
That was a dumb remark, idiot
I have one of those. She's not quite as bad as yours, but close enough. The best thing about my sister, is that she lives over 800 miles away
My sister is a narcissist. When I would try to reason with her she was like a pit bull. She would stand over me and remind me of things that I wasn't guilty of but she was. She wrote her daughter in law a letter calling her a fat ass but made it look like it was from me. She has influenced most of our family to believe I am toxic.
🤣🤣👍🏼👍🏼🤺🤺@@kurthanke5788
Not recommended but can be accomplished. I did at a cost. I exposed him publicly through criminal court, putting him in jail for 2years and took everything, farm, 40 acres, and personal assets (cars) in the divorce litigation. It cost me aspects of my physical health and certainly my mental health with CPTSD. I am proud of myself for finally standing up and following through with what I said would happen.
Cowgirl, it's been done before. GOOD FOR YOU! 👍💪💪
@@jannlewandowski5540 and those were the stories that spurred me on! Thank you 😊
Good for you!!! I'm in the process of doing something similar now. Gave him warning after warning. It's not for everyone but if you can do it, then try. I agree there are unforseen consequences that we don't know; very similar to playing chess. Thank you Dr. Ramani for this very timely topic.
@@nicolehanson6147 exactly, chess! Truly, may you be successful! Rise Phoenix Rise!
JESUS!😮😂❤🎉
The sad part is they really believe they’re good people 🤡 pitiful. The best revenge is being nothing like them
The best advice that I have discovered is don't go DEEP: don't Defend, don't Explain, don't Engage, and don't take it as Personal. It works. You win and it feels like it because it is a drop-dead end for the narcissist and you have taken your power back.
We cannot win in any situation. Only staying away works.
Absolutely, I dated a pathological liar and the sad part is her mother best advice to me was to stay as far away from her.
Join a communist party and help build a society that doesn't reward self-serving behavior.
@@justinwatson1510 haha Communist are nothing but narcissists who act like a cult.
@@justinwatson1510lmao um yeah buddy
They are draining 😂
I've outplayed narcissist a few times while using extreme patience. I got what I wanted while they belittled and blamed me. You just can't fall into their games for one minute and you must be extremely patient. Let them take their time and slowly, slowly, get your way while smiling. They don't want to look bad so they'll do the right thing sometimes if you can wait long enough. I wasn't out for revenge, but I didn't let them take advantage of me in the long run.
Mary, good for you!👍
You won by not playing! Well done!
Sounds like a not very violent narcisist with limited resources. Maybe they weren't really narcisists.....
This is actually Brilliant. 🤯
Not all narcs are violent. Some REALLY care about how they look to others. 🧐
The best way to outplay narcs is to move on with your life in silence with a handful of people that truly understand what you’ve been through as your support system. Enablers are just as bad as the main culprit. Avoid them too at all cost!
My narcissistic friend came back via Facebook after over twenty years. They don't forget. I froze him out. You can't give them ANY access! They don't change!
Yes. Block them and never unblock them 📵📴🚫⛔
I blocked family narcissist, everyone who believed the lies from the narcissist, because There is nothing I can say/do to change their minds. I don't have the energy to play the games.
Only way to outplay them is to not play.
My female narc boss was volatile from Day 1. Slamming doors and kicking trashcans the day she arrived. I knew to document it all. After she threatened me with physical harm; I took my documentation to the union. She got 2 weeks suspension and I got moved to another job. Kicker was, my new boss was HER best friend. This lady KNEW I meant business and she ended up being a great boss. I got into a different job series and moved up the ladder. It all ended up to my benefit but it was HELL on earth until then.
"They have no problem using a sledgehammer to kill a mosquito". 😉 Dr Ramani's got a way with words. Thank you!
That there is the real problem with society. The best you can hope for with a narcissist, is that you can save yourself. But saving yourself does not stop them from preying on others, so they just continue to run rampant leaving a trail of destruction in their wake. They need to be stopped, they cause so much harm. But the only thing that'll stop a narcissist, is force. And society is completely disinterested in using force to stop these destructive behaviours. As such, the narcissist knows that they can basically act with impunity, and society will do nothing, at least so long as they don't go too far and say, commit murder. But anything less, they're not going to be jailed or anything like that. Whereas on the other hand, the person having to fight the narcissist is having to do so with one hand tied behind their back, because, while society will ignore the actions of the narcissist, if the person does anything that's remotely effective at stopping the narcissist, they're the ones that will be punished.
they will use the police or boss or someone with power to try to damage you and the police are stupid enough to be manipulated by these people. as was pointed out in this video they often have supporters and know how to distort the truth.
I think,,,, I could outplay them but life is too short and I prefer taking the high road and walking away. There is more strength in walking away than staying and fighting day after day.
I wish I could do that. If I was on my own I would walk away too but I can't because my narc mother in law has got her claws in my daughter to get back at me for challenging her. I will not give up on my child.😢
That's great if you don't have kids with them. If you do, you're screwed, either your kids realize there is a problem, or they enact narcissistic qualities and blame you. So, its not that easy to get away from them when the link to them is your kids.
My problem is that we have kids together, and it's hard to stand by and let them abuse them. I feel very protective of my kids, and ignoring the narcs abuse, i feel like an enabler.
You don’t have to ignore but teach your kids what behavior is acceptable and not. You don’t have to tell your kids how terrible their other parent is and you don’t need to bad mouth them. They’ll eventually see the truth
Same here, I find it hard to let him treat our kids mean, I can't ignore it, I'm no contact and now he's controlling my kids financially, he's so cruel, I'm hoping I get half of everything in the divorce, that is payback in itself, he's a cheating liar, he has hurt all of us with his selfishness, constantly letting down our kids, he's a compulsive liar, it's taken me 30 years to realise what he really is, I can't rest until I have what I'm entitled to, then me and my kids won't need him at all, we are hurting while he's out weekends away with his girlfriend, he even tells our kids he's planned his birthday with his girlfriend, they can see him another day!! My girls told him where to go 😮
Exactly this. I get what she's saying & I absolutely do not attempt to "outplay", but he threatens to kill me & i'm "playing in his game of tit for tat" by rightfully reporting it to the police & trying to get a restraining order like any sane person should be able to do? What i'm supposed to do then sit in fear waiting to "see" if he goes through with it?
I don't get it the world has been nothing, but the upside down since I filed for divorce years ago. I don't engage in anything most of the time, but answering questions made to me when someone like a school counselor wants background on the sudden outburst of bad behavior seen in our child bc of his contact with the narc, but the revenge as she's explaining always engaged anyways bc I left in the 1st place. I've slipped up & yelled getting outwardly angry a couple of times bc it directly involved harming words being said directly to an 8 year old & crossing my path unrightfully with law enforcement. I report illegal things that deserve it, but I don't relish it I hate needing to have any interactions with them at all.
It never has to be ignited by me doing anything in response to poison he's already done if that makes any sense. The same goes for his mom & ex-wife they don't have to say or do anything to his very existence & they suddenly get email/text filled with vitriol.
He's utterly insane, the rest of the world has seen it clear as day, & I haven't had to say or do much of anything for that to happen, they sometimes dole out punishments as a repercussion he just don't care especially when he in a drug-fueled rage-quest. He's extremely entitled & delusional so his ego hurt at any boundary anyone sets for their own emotional safety. We don't even have to try to 'outplay' him.
@@Karimoon1hard situation with kids, and yet they need you to defend them; I wouldn't know what to do except pray they can see through it and become super empaths. Narc's supply is being yelled at in return. Mine kept trying to pick fights it worked once then I caught on and asked him if he was looking for negative attention. After years of pretending to worship the ground I walk on he suddenly became scornful. The fight provoking stopped but he'd get back at me in other ways, like my tv breaking" by accident" and my other furniture. I'd have to go along with that explanation and pretend that was really the case else he'd get physically abusive. I moved out saying that the extra space was a benefit for him, did a slow fade and eventually blocked him. Hope you are able to get away from the narc situation 🙏
All I did was set boundaries and stop being "friends" with my boss and I'm being harassed, singled out, made the office pariah and I fear for my job. I can only imagine what would happen if I tried to "outplay" her. On the bright side, some of my health issues are better and I'm not being worked like a beast of burden anymore
If anyone tries to unionize your workplace, do everything you can to help them.
Time to move on! They will take you all the way down and humiliate you in the process, save your sanity and career while you can!
Leave. It happened to me . I stood my ground and was brutalized by the group. My career is over as I can't atomic going through It again. I've been in sick now for 4 years. It will make you poorly darling. Please leave. It will not end well . 💗🙏
Keep a paper trail locked in a safe that no one has access to except one person you trust.
I hope you get out of there!! Take care of yourself!
You never can out play a Narcissist. They always will ask you “ are you trying to out smart me? “ than run,run,run,run
Their need for revenge is terrifying. And they can play the looooong game.
At the end of the day "the narcissist" NEEDS ATTENTION. What they want and need should be denied when possible. Living a good life, and for me right now saying "I have a job to do....", then moving forward is worthy of consideration.
They have no conscience and to outplay them at means having no conscience and damaging and betraying the truth and integrity of your own being. It’s a non-starter. Winning is remaining true to your own self.
They spend their whole lives desperately running from their ego fragility, plagued by an unquenchable need for supply. Envy *tortures* them, and ANYTHING can hurt them---from a colleague's new car to a hostess giving them a less-good table. Meanwhile, WE are capable of healing, growth, genuine connection, and truly enjoying life's pleasures big *and* small.🌈😃❤That's winning in my book!
I think the best way to outplay the narcisist is not to play. No supply to be had here. Cutting off all forms of supply, healing and moving on to live your authentic and peaceful life is the best way to walk away from them.
Brilliant and a Must See. When it comes to outplaying them, Narcissists are Inexhaustible, they will NEVER fight fair, and they ALWAYS come after you in some way. Know the risks. Thank you, Dr. Ramani!
Work place bullying or any kind of bullying isn't against the law but being a vigilante is, how fair is that?
Sad but true
When my husband told me to respond back to a narcissist in the same way she was treating me I told him, “I don’t want to be like her!!” That’s my revenge.
Don't play their game. Let them make their own lives worse with their childish games that you're not even interested in playing. Their behavior gets the better of them sooner or later. Move on and never look back
Yeah, I'm just done. Dealing with a narcissistic family dynamic and ex-husband has been a lose/ lose situation. It cost me almost everything, including my children. I have accepted that I can grieve for what might have been, but I need to accept what is.
I really hear you. I also had a narcissistic family of origin. Thought I escaped by going to college and marrying a great guy. Who was a narcissist. Wasted six years with him (three were actually good). Escaped to a lovely part of the country. Found a new career, and a new man, who was good for thirty-two years. Wound up in a workplace that with changed management became narcissistic. It was too late to change careers, so rode it out for ten years. That took a toll. Then retired to my lovely husband’s native country, where he turned into a narcissistic monster. This last one could not be true narcissism, as he was normal for so many years. My therapist feels it is more trauma based on his early experiences in his country. Nevertheless, the effects were the same. I escaped with few resources to a poor part of the US. I am building a local support group and a life. But it is hard in my sixties. I did decide to try to lure my husband back (with all the joint assets). It worked.
He is far less narcissistic here. He is also not quite as lovely as he was in our idyllic thirty-two year period. Also, I have to accept and deal with me lessened good feelings about him.
I am not exactly playing him, but accepting that I would rather deal with a person who seems to show low level narcissistic traits, than be a completely impoverished old woman.
I am in therapy to work on ways to grab and rebuild meaningful nuggets of my life.
But all is not lost. Life is not what it should have been, but I will never be beaten down because evil people want me beaten!
I am really sorry about your kids. Not knowing your situation, I can only hope that they will eventually see the truth, and come back to you. Otherwise, grab every tiny little good thing that is left to you and relish it. Even if it is just enjoying a peanut buttercsandwidge you made, a walk in the park; a smile from a stranger, a pet from your dog. You are you, and theycannot take that!,
Same.
Same,
Same
Pick up and muster any strength you have left…. And put it into YOU. These relationships will corrode your sole and sanity…. They are just OFF… and nothing will reset that for them. By that stage their psyche is ‘baked in’ for a better word. Life is too short and hard enough at times without signing up for their malevolent ways.
I am traumatized yet I never am able to avoid the anger. The internal effects are what is so devastating. When it is a parent it is unbearable.
The victim can appear the villian just engaging in this evil play. They are always willing to ramp up to get supply. Tiring, exhausting, inevitable....
Some people I know are just trying to get away from them let alone outplay them.
Facts, evidence, humanity, common scense, loyalty or love - have no relevance for them. Their existence rely on their perfect image. I have tried to change/correct the narrative…. Does not work. Their ego is the air they breathe, and they will fight to survive. Thank you❤
Hi Dr Ramani. I would NEVER even get near another narcissist. When I broke up with my ex, I had no idea what he was, so I told him off and left. Whoa! Now, I would have left silently..🙏
Dr. Ramani does not read the comments personally. Her team does that for her.
@rubyjet9513 Hi Ruby! I believe that bcse she's so busy. At least I get my point across. It was nice of you to write me. You can write me anytime! 👍💕
@@jannlewandowski5540 lol!
I supported the folks around me at work so they would know how to protect themselves against my narcissistic boss. With the boss? They’re self-destructive. I just waited when I needed to, created the right situations, and waited for her to react in her predictable ways. She’d be her own downfall without knowing it was me, because they think you’re too stupid to best them
They always overplay their hand at some point. Arrogant to the 9th degree.
I like the thought that they may actually eventually end up destroying themselves by their own hand, I may never experience it before my own eyes but knowing it will happen sooner or later gives me the feeling of justice. Also if you try to take away their supply and get away with it, you could end up looking like the petty and small person and then karma will bite you 😉 I would not want to give a narcissist that satisfaction. It could also end violently, maybe even with lethal outcome, you should never underestimate what a stressed narcissist is capable of doing 😢😢
Well said. It's better to keep your distance and observe their downfall from afar.
I have never, not once, in my 63 years seen a happy narcissist. They are miserable people.
Patience is the greatest virtue.
at Mariann Knudsen:. What you are advocating is fear-based indifference.
When it comes to psychopathically fraudulent malignant narc Psychopathics who are harming others right now, in the past,band will do so in the future, because they get away with it and get off on it, cowardice is what you speak of and me must be willing to suffer for the sake of the false blowback they'll engender.
God gives strength. The Truth will out.
The buck stops here.
It is often not that simple. There are all types of positions of power. The issue is deeper than you think. A mouse, the greatest mouse of all, should never try and wrestle a cat. 🤺🤺
@@KaarinaKimdaly
The only way to win against a narcissist is not to play. To beat a narcissist at their own game, you have to destroy your own soul. It's just not worth it
When I noticed I was playing along and trying to one up the other person i decided this is not the person I wanted to be and and engaging was corrupting my soul and this is not in the best interest of my higher self… sometime you win by not playing.
I only outplayed a narcissist when they tell me to do something immoral, illegal, and/or it is going to hurt me and/or other people. In these cases, I felt that I had no choice to fight back. Yes, I did stop these bad actions from occurring, but the cost for me was really high.
Very good point. I think it was Mark Twain who said, "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." I'd be perfectly content just to have this person out of my life -- and I thought she was. Now, she's forcing me to defend myself, and my only defense is to expose her dishonesty and pattern of abusive behavior. If I had any other choice, I'd take it. (Looking forward to reading your book, BTW.)
Leaving them alone completely seams to make them think that your "out playing them", no win there
Yeah because they didn't finish destroying you. Better off making them feel slighted by your departure than delighted in your destruction
I get what you're saying, but survivors may just need to tell their story, and in a big way. For some of us, this is really the "stuff of novels" It's not about "outplaying the narcissist". However, your "words to the wise" should be well headed! I need to replay this video several times, because as I was listening to it, I could think of several very toxic situations, each involving a different person (mostly family members)., who would be very vindictive if the truth was told. You are so right that they will never "let it go". I did have the stomach for it decades ago and happened to outplay the narcissist, only for he and his enablers to come after me again, many years later,. Thanks for the warning!
Even if they are easy to handle and predict they are definitely on another level of anger and vengeance
Proud to say I outplayed the sociopath I'd married. Unfortunately, I wasted over two decades on that loser. I wish I could get those years back because the joy I got from outwitting him wasn't worth it.
Stay a step ahead by seeing through them and not letting on. Don't get drawn into fights, remain indifferent, be unabashed and do the slow fade.
Am blessed with discernment, these people turn to runaway from me. I knew the game, I just didn't know that there's a terminology for this. I turn to be lonely sometimes, because I can't seem to find people who're pure at heart.
Thanks for this one, Dr Ramani. I needed to learn about this. Reality, which in this case involves the nature and abilities of narcissists and enablers, is the lightbulb. Is the cognitive illumination. All the more reason to disengage in the most expert way you can, along with continuing to focus on you. You still aren't used to it? Be patient with yourself, towards rebuilding your life. ♥️ The thing I have to remember is that there really is no real relationship with a narcissist. Despite the best illusions that reality seems to create to the contrary, which is why the temptation is to engage with them in the way one engages with them, one really has to come to this radical acceptance of reality. That's it!
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🖖🏼🖖🏼
The problem is the mental health disorder is so bad that can cause serious domestic abuse and because of it being domestic violence has a high murder rate. Narcissists psychopaths sociopaths are natural born predators. It can become kill or be killed. Shes right Its not worth it and it makes you sick. And when dealing with narcissism in gang violence they also go for you're next of kin. Psychology becomes a means to survive.
Narcissists become therapist so they can hunt their pray more easily. Victims come themselves, full of trust and without suspecting anything.
@@BojanPeric-kq9et that's why psychology is a good survival and defense mechanism when looking for a therapist.
@@BojanPeric-kq9et that also scares me on topics like narcissistic mobbing/bullying or gang stalking. Because you don't know how far the network of narcissism can stretch.
@@omage4209 from my previous experiences, I would say that BS and gaslighting detectors should be set to highest sensitivity. And if very first session can't be set smoothly, look further.
Consider that I have more than once experience of therapists asking for me to fill questionnaires before first session. One could be an exception, two or more are the rule.
I am glad you mentioned dating. Choosing therapist is not like dating, i is more like picking a prostitute.
@@BojanPeric-kq9et same with police or politicians.. they are sick demented people looking for power over someone not to serve the people.
truly wise words - life is short, resources and time are limited... spend them where it counts
Focus and Forget! You will enjoy your life a whole lot more focusing on your happiness and forgetting them.
I'm really glad this channel exists.
Someone once asked me if I want revenge to make him suffer like I suffered?
And honestly I did.
She then asked me if that makes me sorta like him then?
And she even told me that I could have spent the time on myself with joy and peace instead of seeking revenge.
And that is true. I did lose time that was all for not.
It is so painful to know i was playing checkers and he was playing chess. He had the upper hand. He always knew my game plan even though I didn’t know his. I guessed at some things and was right a few times.
But it does hurt to have a grandiose narcissist for a divorce attorney and a covert narcissist for a soon to be ex husband. It’s an exhausting battle.
My peace is more important than making him suffer like I used to and in a sense still am feeling like I’m suffering.
Thank you for this information. Very insightful.
The need for vindictive triumph is the narcissists trap. Why join them there? Soar above them by taking it all in stride and moving on because it is your only real choice.
I always knew I was going to give up more than I needed to legally and I almost told him that. Thank goodness my lawyer stopped he. Then in the end when I gave up exactly what I planned, he thought he won.
Thank you for all your help the last few years trying to navigate back to a normal life. Well. Somewhat. It never will be the same and that has its good and bad points. However thankful I am at this point in my life that I am the only one who I have control over. With the narcs it is simple. Just accept they are who they are and walk away. It isn't worth trying to find closure, revenge, exposure. They have their own playbook and will switch the rules when they see or feel fit. In the end it will come back around to them and it will be on them when they meet their maker.
For me its not about winning, just to have peace with them so we can be together. But there is no peace with them no matter what you do.
I've gone through this exact scenario with someone I used to know. Luckily, I spotted the giant red flags early and started preserving chat histories, audio/ video recordings, and photographs of incidents. Later, when their narc traits started focusing on me, I made sure they knew that I had materials that could ruin their entire narrative and I made it abundantly clear that I didn't intend to use those materials unless forced. In fact, I stressed on the fact that all I intended was for them to leave me alone. Thankfully, they have done that so far. Let's see if it stays that way. Fingers crossed!
Smart! I hope it works long term.
Yes, I have made it known that I have pics with time/date stamped evidence. She can keep the clothes & other items if she needs them that bad, she doesn't, but I refused to show any emotion to feed her demented evil. I'm out new clothes, a lot of $$$$ & so many valuable possessions that can't be replaced. But my health is slowly getting better.
Great post.
The most destructive and indeed the most devious and evil malignant narcissist in my life always made a point to cultivate relationships (albeit shallow) with certain levels of personnel in law enforcement/judicial system to keep on stand by (i.e. as flying monkeys) if "heaven forbid" any type of law action was leveled against them. You are dead right when you said "they are BUILT for this" and they do thrive on the fight.
When they become cops or are related to cops it is something that is dangerous. i had a massive problem with some skanky predator whose brother was a firefighter and friends with the local police. You have to speak to an attorney right away or these people will try to damage your life. They know the only real power is with the police so they use the police to harm their enemies and they know the courts have power and are afraid of being sued or exposed in front of a judge for their malIciousness.
I do believe this is why they say don't wrestle with the pigs that you'll get dirty every time, and once you know you go you get out and you stay out, so basically no contact if all possible would be the best thing to do 👍 thanks Dr Romney for everything you do 🙏🦋
I can't explain how much you inspire me. I'm just more at peace with just letting things be. Thanks for all your education and this work you do. Happy Thanksgiving ❤️
Isn't that one of the greatest songs and concepts ever let it be let it be!!!!
Well Dr Ramani,....
I have to respectfully disagree so we can empower victim survivors.
It's not about outplaying narcs.
Its about helping victim survivors KNOW WE HAVE MORE CONTROL THAN THESE OH SO SCARY NARCS.
I happen to help victims strategize thru court.
I help victims expose the narcissist, win assets, and get these people prosecuted.
I help expose them and win victims assets, fair divorce, and their children back.
If I believed your advice, no one would find any advocate or help bc we'd all give up and say...
Oh well. Don't bother victim.
These people are more powerful and more intelligent than you.
Deal with it victim.
You're weak. You have no other choice but to deal w the injuries and injustice.
I hope you will reconsider this topic and know there are people out there who have education and background in these types so we can change society views about these narcissists.
Because they're not as powerful or cunning thru court as you're making them out to be.
When you have the right help and new structure, the table turns and we should not be teaching that narcs are too powerful, so deal with it victim.
Nope.
Not gonna agree with you on this and I SOOOOO appreciate you and your knowledge help and validation for we survivors.
Thanks for listening Dr Ramani.
I'm sorry, but we're all going to have to do better than that. It's not just winning for winning sake, or pride sake. Many times it's winning for justice's sake, or safety sake. And until healthy people learn to skillfully stand up to sick, dangerous people, the world will remain as it is, or get worse. Evil wins when good people do nothing.
There may be nothing that can be done. You're right, most people are not built for this kind of fight. But you either learn to fight effectively, or hand over everything you love to the evil people that surround you.
I have an excellent way of dealing with them but I can't demonstrate it. Its like Dr Ramani said in a video last week, its a personality flaw. Some people aren't narcissists, they're just a-holes
Harrassment has to do with putting narcissists in their place sometimes, and unfortunately, closing their goof qualities down sometimes. I am a vulnerable narcissist struggling to recover and connect more with people, and I get stuff dumped on my car sometimes, fifteen hang-up calls in one day occasionally(the two past days, fifteen each day), loud knocking on my door at random times during the night. These things happen when I reach out to friends more, and unknown people harass me. I get confused and start to feel paranoid and shut down and feel isolated when the harrassment starts again. I revert, and the progress is on hold again. I torture myself for days sometimes, not knowing what part of difficut interactions are my responsibility, likely many of which when I'm in this state. I stay away from meaningful conversations and a good life. I like your black and white approach because it is so clear. I try to better myself and not respond to narcissism in my family. To blame them would be hypocritical. I used to hate myself when I listened to your videos. I have diagnosed myself with this illness, and I continue to try to be responsible in my life. I have a conscience. Thank you for your insights.
Huh, there is this concept of ‘super empath’ who is supposedly to be like a spooky boogie to a narc. I wonder what is drRamani stance on that.
Yep this happened to me! The pain is unbearable and all it did was add additional pain that’s even harder to get rid of. I was snubbed, sexually harassed, avoided by many, and the smear campaign/upstaging was on a another level and now the other woman is a respected singer in my area and all he does is smirk like “gotcha.” I have to basically start over somewhere else although it happened years ago. When I saw everything he was saying and the traps he was setting, i broke down psychologically. I lost my hair, dealt with severe depression, ruminated, obsessed, self-sabotaged, almost died, was bullied, took out anger on my family, couldn’t sleep, and etc. I was slowly turning into him and hated myself for it.
Thank you so much for your so useful channel. I am just trying to find my way out of a 24 years narcissistic marriage. relationship, and I am so concerned that I am so very much used to a non healthy behaviour of being like a servant in the relationship that I almost forgot how ( not what ) to have personal needs . I crave romance but I don't understand a healthy relationship.
Honestly.
I loath that I may fall again to another narcissist.
Interestingly I am a doctor, which makes me despise myself even more for falling in that abusive relationship for that long.
Would you kindly focus lengthly on recovery techniques please.
Again much appreciated xxx
You were vulnerable. It doesn’t mean your less vulnerable because your a doctor, a lawyer, a cashier a secretary oh whatever.
Watch all of dr. Romani’s video’s. Write out your thoughts.
Don’t blame yourself
Figure out eventually why you accepted the behaviour and didn’t want to see the red flags.
Be very kind to yourself this isn’t your fault.
If you survive with family in tact, call that a win and feel lucky, you escaped..
Thank you... I need to change my strategy.
Sorry for the long essay, I ruminate and ramble :)
It's certainly possible to win a round or two, but they will ALWAYS come back for more, no matter how resounding your victory was.
In many ways, this is the folly of subjugation by force: it will only work for as long as the force is actively applied. The second you make a mistake or step down the force, the resentment of being oppressed will immediately motivate a blowback, and this will happen wether that force was justified or not.
The best example of this happening in another context is operation "Shock and Awe", when the USA went into Iraq with so much display of superiority that the leadership assumed that anyone opposing them would shrivel away and change their ways at the sight of the might and greatness of the star-spangled banner.
Instead, the predictable thing happened: the opposition went underground, stepped up their capabilities and determination, and bided their time. Voilá: ISIS.
I know that's overly simplified, but nothing can be taken away from how dumb it is to think that you can ever have a victory so resounding, so devastating that your opponent won't ever think about engaging you again. It's even worse if you also expect the defeated to see things your way afterwards. And all of that is about dealing with normal people. Throw in a bunch of narcissistic entitlement, gaslighting and victimhood, and you have just created a ticking timebomb by "winning" the battle over who gets to keep the piano.
A narcissist is always ready to go further, burn more bridges, spend more time and money, and generally escalate any conflict. More than you would be willing to. More than you would imagine.
So, to "win", there's a couple of ways to go about it. First, if you have a goal, arrange for them to think that they would be winning over you. Example: make them break up with you, instead of pulling the plug yourself.
Second: use the knowledge of these videos to predict their responses, and consider the possible outcomes, then pick the best one. This often means that completely reasonable outcomes are off the table, but that you DO get to decide which of the unreasonable ones you want, and you get to prepare for them. Example: holiday selections. A narcissist will want to go somewhere exotic for several months, and your reasonable proposals for holidays you can actually afford will be ridiculed. Instead, you can decide to find a budget option with the argument to save the money for the big one (the money will always be gone, so you can do this forever).
Third: predict the patterns of their tantrums. In an argument that they feel they are losing, they will always pivot to the many triggers they have prepared for you. Recognize when they call out your unrelated failings as them pressing a big red "abort" button. Visualize it. Restate the last relevant point you made ONCE. They'll press that button again, almost exactly in the way that The Joker click-clicks his remote when blowing up the hospital. At that stage, it's you who knows what's happening and they wondering what the hell is going on. Your options still aren't great, as they will never ever de-escalate without some sense that they've won, but you now have the choice of what they can "win" and how. You choose where, when and in front of whom you throw a fake tantrum and storm off. You choose how it affects you internally. You choose how far things escalate.
Absolutely spot on - best way to outplay a Narcissist: a degree + a UA-cam Channel or publishing a book......more do-able: let them self-implode while you (run) away (don't look back or you could turn to a pillar of salt). Then get yourself into therapy to discover why you allowed a Narcissist to be in your environment (a therapist who specializes in personalities/ attachment).
True
It's like the universe knew I needed to hear this ❤ thank you for this wisdom.
My narcissistic sister is fighting her late husband’s family in court. It’s like she has lost her mind. She is now trying to get revenge on all of them even though some of her step kids were good to her. It makes me cringe how much delight she takes in finding dirt on them. She is blinded by desire to get revenge. She has lots of money and seems to be enjoying the fight.
Thank you kindly for sharing! ❤
As Seinfeld once said, “Living well is the best revenge. “ Walk away and have the best life you can. You might think their life seems better, but then like my ex they might end up with a difficult autoimmune disease, you never know.
Every word you said is true! I lived this. And am aware that at any time for the rest of my life because of this person’s vindictiveness I must be on guard
Thank you Dr. Ramani 💯 facts.
Thank you for the work you are doing, doctor Ramani
How do you protect yourself if not make a play against them? Seriously, healthy people get in situations where they are stuck dealing with narcissists and actively being harmed by them, when they're unable to get away. My aunt is terrible, always picking someone to mess with while portraying a 'sweet Christian' mom to the rest of the world. My mom has been in her site for years and my mom is kind and doesn't really fight back. When it comes to inheritance, I'm afraid my aunt will try to take it all. She's already sent my grandma to the hospital with a heart attack and her own daughter with a panic attack. She's torn our family apart. I'm afraid of what she will do if I protect my mom, but I'm more afraid of what she will do if I don't. I am almost at the point I want to say just walk away, but it isn't right and my mom's quality of life will be drastically impacted in a negative way if my Aunt succeeds.
These videos have helped me so much through the last year.
I think part of the danger here is that some narcs will “demand” you be permissive to their bad behavior or unreasonable demands, and then act as if you are trying to outplay them. Threatening abuse and creating more problems, because we all know how “relentless” they are and “how bad it can get”. When in reality it is a one-sided interaction. Feeding into the myth that narcissism is a positive or powerful thing is sort of like this “outplaying” game. It can lead you to have very strange priorities, which is a reason why it’s so important to understand the nature of narcs and narcissistic interactions. Be well ❤
I got to the point where I tried to play my Narc at his own games after I educated myself in Nsrcissm and found our what hurt him, because I wanted payback after all the hurt and pain he caused me. But then I realised it came at a cost, and that was my Self-Respect, Dignity and Humane Attitude so I didn't carry on. Instead I developed Boundaries and strength for those moments of being discarded and devalued where I got to rhe point of 'Indifference '. Somehow, I found myself through all this and wasn't afraid to stand my ground and walk away. 🍒
Sometimes the only winning move, is not to play.
GREAT advise DoctorRamani ❣❤
Listening right now and you are so right about thinking that you can defend yourself against a narcissist. I spent 22 years in the Army, and it was the last two years of the aAmy that I was affected the most. Physically, emotionally, spiritually, I almost died!. I will reiterate again that I think God so much that I found your show and continuing to understand what I went through and now I’m able to identify certain situation that I’m in that I can now create defenses for myself in the future.
Thank you, thank you Dr. Ramani!
Dr. Ram, I've been listening to your videos since covid. I always love coming here to listen. Thank you.
This is the perfect message at the perfect time for me. I went no contact over a year ago, stayed quiet and I will see this through. Thank you Dr.Ramani.
I preordered your new book! Thank you for the hours of counseling that I could not otherwise afford. Thank you for your insight and wisdom in dealing with difficult people in our lives. I’m so thankful I found your channel! ❤
Excellent advise and video. Also, very interesting discussions in the comments section. This is one of your best videos.
I'm so impressed. You cover these complex situations, the best.Let them be.Do not engage in some of their ways.Find your meaningful strength.
I realized what happened and wanted justice even just looking them straight in the eyes. I tried but our meet-up didn't happen. As time has passed, why the meet-up didn't happen, has been puzzling, but time has led me to begin to let go. I don't need justice. I simply need to trust myself and go from there. The relationships will most likely be grey rock or superficial as they were before. Now, though, I know why, and it wasn’t me. I was a part if the play but not the lead player.
I tried to outplay a narcissist and we ended up with mutually assured destruction. He disengaged from pursuing me legally because I've had won their lol - but we utterly demolished each others social lives.
Dr ramani thank you so much for taking the time to educate people that actually have emotions in this world they would like to express . Since watching you I have realised my best friend of 9 years is actually a narcissistic and he’s always trying to devalue me by trying to show how great his life is and his assets (car) , I decide to show no emotion and stay more quite in other word cutting of his narcissistic supply to see what will happen and he didn’t not like it 😂😂
He started turning to his more valuable supply his car (and his girlfriend) which when I didn’t give him the validation that his car is not so great like he makes it out to be he had to wip out his phone in the middle driving and starts driving fast and reckless to prove his own point.
People stay away from these type of people they will drain you mentally and physically so that you may submit to their fantasies. I can never show emotion to my closest friend again
Thank you again dr. Ramani for your relentless way of educating and empowering all of us❣💎🦄
💫🕊🐛💝🙏🏼💝🦋🕊💫
In my experience, the only way to outplay them, is stop playing.
The moment i stopped caring about how he would react to whatever, (in this case it was already my decision to end the relationship... )...i stop playing.
For that moment, he seemed to give up. And i felt at the start of being my own self again.
It did not work out totally right away...some more strategies came up to play and it would take me another 2 years to really get totally no contact with him....
In the "winning moments" during that time, i experienced time and time again, only really disengaging and detaching from what i expected or feared him to say or do...is what really helped.
And at times i was truly true to myself in the things i said to him, from the heart, not from within by batterd ego, he disengaged, by gobbling up his 3rd double baco and choose to pass out instead of responding to what i had been saying...🤗
The truth sets you free. The truth binds them to their own bull. Whether they own it or not other people see and they are outed by their own mistakes. Patience on your part. Yes. Dont outplay them. Thats temporary. Live patiently for the long game. They will trip up and expose themselves.
You are so correct. I did not realize exactly what I was dealing with until right before I left. Thank you so much for your videos. 🙏
🌹🌹🌹 Gratitude for Dr. Ramani & the Team Sharing Wisdom!! 🌹🌹🌹
❤❤❤ Love Yourself & Concentrate on your Dreams!! ❤❤❤
Also, incredibly sound and important advice here. Thank you.
Grey Rock… Grey Rock Grey Rock !!.. Followed by One word responses, then walk away, nothing more needed .. you automatically get the advantage and some degree of revenge ,as it drives them totally insane..