*118.3 pounds recurve bow:* 60 gr and 28 inches arrow: 206.6 fps 63 gr and 30 inches arrow: 201.2 fps _75 gr and 30 inches arrow: 186.7 fps_ *145.31 pounds mini recurve bow:* 60 gr and 28 inches arrow: 208.4 fps 63 gr and 30 inches arrow: 204.3 fps 75 gr and 30 inches arrow: 191.8 fps *150 pounds recurve bow:* 75 gr and 30 inches arrow: 210.1 fps *160 pounds flat bow:* 75 gr and 30 inches arrow: 207.5 fps
Love the videos! You are living history and sharing it. You should fill the dead air with your thoughts on the bows feel, maintenance, pros/cons and stories of making the bows+arrows (sourcing the materials, etc.). I think you would have a unique perspective that would be very informative. Keep the vids coming they are great!
he draws 150lb bows like they're 25lbs. This is exactly what you'd expect hundreds of years ago, from a lifetime of training. A fleet of these guys would be an absolute war machine before the advent of guns.
He's 170-200lb fart lol, a decent size but at the battle of Agincourt they'd have been 250lb archers drawn from the very best from whole of England at the time. This weasel has been in another weasel's video, where he couldn't penetrate French plate armour with a 160lb bow as he cant fire a 200lb bow 'all day', to these weasels that means NO-ONE at Agincourt could either HAHAHAAHAHAHAHA. Fact is there were many archers, with specialist bows, and they would have decimated the French knights.
@@VarangianGuard200 knights wore armour because armour works. Arrows couldn’t penetrate the strongest parts of plate armour. Stop basing your facts on Hollywood movies, you donut.
I really enjoyed seeing the 150 pound recurve result. Thank you for that. I am interested to ask however, why you provide your arrow weight in grams rather than grains? Just the scale you happen to have? (For reference 60 gram ~ 925 grains, 63 grams ~ 975grains, 75gram ~ 1160 grains.)
Spook Boleyn depends how many u smoke u smoke a lot then u tend to just want to sit down and watch cartoons but if u just have a little go u can shoot pretty quick but to be fair it’s best to just not have any
If you mean, how much are the blunts affecting the velocity measurements in this video, the answer is almost certainly hardly at all. By the time the arrows in this video have passed through the Chrony, they've only been in flight for 15-20 milliseconds or so. Even if the blunts significantly increase the arrows' drag relative to what they'd experience if they had more aerodynamic tips, in all probability that just isn't enough time for the effect of the additional drag to show up in any noticeable or measurable (with a Chrony) way.
Hi Joe, Thanks for the video, I saw you in other video's and read a thing or two about your shooting but never realised you had your own youtube channel all these years. At what distance do you reckon that you can hit the figure of a (stationary) man with a 150-160 lbs yew warbow? Is there a difference in accuracy between say your yew bow, a fiberglass one and tartar/steppe style hornbow? Kind regards
There would NEVER be a difference in accuracy lmao how does a different type of bow change the accuracy. The efficiency yes. The recurves will always outperform a stick
I stopped shooting in my garden after neighbour handed me my arrow overthe fence one day. I have no idea how it ended up in the middle of his garden. If his kid was playing there when it happened... Yeah. No more garden shooting.
When I was a kid, so like 8 or 9 I got a cheap fiberglass bow from my dad, one day me and a friend wondered if we could get an arrow over the roof of the house. So we stood in the garden, aimed up(or rather I did) and let the arrow fly. It went over the roof and landed in the middle of the playground on the other side of the house just past a small road leading to the houses nearby. Luckily nobody was hurt, and even then I remember understanding how stupid I had been and I never told my dad, I'm sure he would have been furious, with good reason. Sometimes you do stupid things, and I'm glad your experience didn't end up any worse than mine.
@@agilagilsen8714 When I was a kid I got a cheap fiberglass bow as well. It had steel tipped fiberglass (I think) arrows as well. We went outside the store to a dirt field next to a parking lot. I guess they were going to build more parking lot there. So I shot the arrows at some cans and stuff. I then decided to shoot higher to shoot a bit longer. Even though it was a cheap bow, it certainly sent the arrow flying! Luckily it hit the wooden fence in front of the parking lot and not the cars or the people there. One guy almost head a heart attack from the loud bang of the impact. I hit the dirt as soon as I saw I didn't hurt anyone, so the guy had no idea what the sound was from. I learned to respect the bow more after that...
Reading these comments reminded me of an arrow I let fly up into the air at a local shooting range as a kid. It landed 3 meters from a cow. Funny how we don't think of the possibilities as kids.
I believe for "low" velocity applications like this, the momentum is actually more important then the energy. For example, a 9mm bullet has about 3 times the energy, about 450 Joules. The momentum of that 9mm bullet is about 3.8kg*m/s while the momentum of that arrow is 4.8kg*m/s. If i would be wearing a lvl 2 vest id worry more about the arrow then the bullet :)
Joe. I've got my hands on a bit of Yew and I know the piece that I want to pull from the log. Just wondering what length I should be looking at? What is a good length for a war bow? I've got a good smooth 7 feet without knots or branches. That is long enough isn't it?
Nice one. I just getting into archery after spending a large part of my childhood making bows. I worked out the process of it being the wood that needs to bend thicker at hand. I had no books only films to go off. This why I'm interested in different bows. I made a real long bow n thought it be most powerful n stunned at 10 years old it being slower despite heavier pull. I reckon English long how simply a war bow. Meaning quick easy to make. But recurves are best? Like the horn bow. I want to see a 200lb horn bow style like the 1st bow u had. I reckon that be the most powerful of all? Sorry waffling on. Just reignited my passion for archery again after decades lol
Can u make videos of u uotting armour? That one u did with the 160lbs bow...what if u fired from the side or even a slight angle. Long bow always show like a battlefield but on a castle wall u would fire sideways at armour.
So the fps/pounds rate here is largely better on Recurved bows, but your recurved bows are less powerful than your flat bows (or mini recurve). Is there a reason ? The best one should be a 160 pounds recurved bow right ? Why don't you have it? (Sorry if the answer is obvious or soething, I'm a beginner and I'm curious :) ) By the way I could watch those bows firing for hours. Continue dude and why not make longer video, also in nature maybe :) Medieval archery is relaxing and wonderful to watch.
Hi joe. Great info and you really do make shooting those monsters look easy. Already mentioned in another comment but if you do another vid it would be really useful to include a comparison chart. Also, to put into perspective, how fast would a regular 40lb recurve shoot those heavier arrows?
Joe, very interesting results and quite a catalogue of videos! I used to shoot Howard Hill bows of up to 100lbs but I found that my shoulder joints became quite irritated so 70# is the max I shoot now. and I'm likely going lighter and lighter yet as I realize 50 lbs is all I need for my hunting requirements. I appreciate how much work it takes to develop the strength it takes to draw and shoot some of the monsters you have! I know your speed results are of a single shot from a single bow but the results are still of interest from a technical point of view. Could we get a table in the comments section confirming the bow style, bow length, approximate bow weight at arrow length, arrow weight and arrow speed. Yes, I am afraid I have succumbed to the technical analysis of grains arrow weight per pound of bow weight and the resulting velocity..... Those who can, shoot and those who can't look at numbers!!!!!
After watching a few of your videos , which are very good I am asking if its worth going for that heavy bow compared to moderates when it doesn't seem to warrant it speed wise, and your lawn mower needs a run mate lol..
It isn't a bow's maximum draw weight that yields arrow velocity. Velocity primarily has to do with how much energy the bow stores and how heavy the arrow is. Secondarily, velocity is influenced by the mass of the bow's limbs (heavier equals slower) and the distribution of that mass (more mass distributed toward the limbs' tips will result in a slower arrow than mass distributed toward the non-working parts of the bow). As long as all other things are proportionately equal, a light arrow shot from a light bow will travel just as fast as a heavy arrow shot from a heavy bow, but the heavy arrow will have more kinetic energy and momentum.
I agree with Marmocet. Increased draw weight means increased arrow mass to match arrow spine to the bow, and increased limb mass, so diminishing returns on arrow speed. You can get round this (like the ottoman Turks achieving arrow speeds of over 300fps) with very short, light arrows and an overdraw device, and very short recurved limbs. The point is that these wouldn’t do much damage to soldiers with various forms of armour. For a war bow, Increasd poundage does increase arrow speed a little but more importantly it adds more kinetic energy to the arrow which, joe has demonstrated with Todd, has the power to punch through gambeson and mail.
@@ttneiltt1 I don't think a heavy bow will necessarily be any more likely to shoot arrows that penetrate armour than a light bow. Armour penetration will have more to do with the ratio of kinetic energy (or momentum) to arrow diameter. Unless there is something non-linear going on with arrow shaft stiffness with respect to diameter or some other important factor, the reason to go with a heavier bow would be that, conditional on having penetrated the armour, a heavier bow's thicker arrow makes a larger wound than a lighter bow's narrower one. Here's a video of some guy launching various projectiles to see if they'll penetrate a polycarbonate resin riot shield. See how bolts, arrows, rocks and slingshot balls bounce harmlessly off the shield but a dart from a low energy blow gun manages to achieve some penetration: ua-cam.com/video/VS3pWwlqp8c/v-deo.html (At the end, a bolt with a modern broadhead tip shot from a modern crossbow slices clean through the shield.)
@@Marmocet KE to arrow diameter is a very simple look of things. Internal bow ballistics, Total energy put by drawing the string is split between the bow and the arrow. A lighter arrow would leave the limbs traveling faster and such more energy out of the total into the bow. Traveling through the air a faster arrow has more resistance and loses more energy than a slower arrow. Terminal ballistics varies too much but small mass differences might not show any difference between heavy or light arrow given the same energy at impact. All in all heavy arrows get more energy out of the bow, fly losing less energy per distance and impact with higher momentum.
Joe, you have a different technique than other archers I've seen. Could you make like a FAQ video where you talk about how and why you learned to shoot like this? Maybe even a quick instructional video. Thanks.
It seems that in the higher poundages the ELB is approaching the same efficiency as the fancy laminated recurve designs. However in war reliability is more important than all out performance. ELBs would probably be easier to look after as natural composite bows would risk delamination in hot or damp conditions. Also when out of arrows or if the enemy had closed to melee range a destrung ELB would make an effective spear or staff with which to beat the enemy to death whereas a hornbow would be pretty useless in that situation. Also being straight the ELB is easy to store and transport. Logistics matter in war!
I know this is selfis, but i hope you have seen Jorges slingshot channel, instantllegolas bow attachment. The newer versions have pull assists, and i have tought could you shoot 300 pound bow with that attachment. The only limiting factor i thing the pull assist has is users push strength, therefore theoreticaly if this pull assist would bee like 100/120 pound and attached too like 280/300 pound bow it should feel similar too pull as 160/200 pound bow. Now i am wondering if this kind of monster of a bow would be able to penetrate plate armor un like that 160 pound bow you tested on tod workshop chanel. of this bow would requier special arrows more like a spears i think :D. I am sure many people would love you guys to test this out.
In the world, without a doubt, its bows are among the best. If they are not the best and most powerful! If I had a lot of money, I would buy all those bows.
Hi Joe. So from the tests you have done so far on what are heavy bows do you find that arrow weight and draw length aside, its poundage thats the main factor determining speed. With lighter weights bow bow design plays a dominant role but at the poundages yr shooting maybe it comes down to brute power?
Joe chech how "Paul Harrel" deals with the cronograph (with firearms though), it works well for him, it might be a good solution for you as well. A lot of people prefers to watch the cronograph tests in their entirety.
Paul Harrell simply announces the numbers that appear on his chronograph, but you can't actually see what those numbers are from the camera angle he chooses to use. That's fine for his channel because there generally aren't very many skeptics on the exact muzzle velocities of firearms. But the world of archery is way different. People care a lot more about the exact velocities that these bows can achieve, down to within a few feet per second. Because a difference of ten feet per second represents a huge difference in power.
@@johnbarron4265 intersting info,i had no clue...i find it sad that people in the archery community can be skeptical about Joe announcing a number,really weird to me but i guess it is what it is:-)
Instead of moving the camera back and forth maybe you could use a second camera pointed at the display. Maybe there is a bit of video editing but it shouldn't be too difficult...
Hi @Joe Gibbs, I am doing sportive and 3d shooting for over a year. For the moment i developped enough strength and stamina to be consistent and performant on a 60# modern longbow, doing around 160-200 shots 5-6 days per week. Can you give me some advices, how to build the strength to go up to 125# at 28" draw. I know that muscles grow pretty fast, but what sucks, it is joints and tendons, taking much more time to adapt. How much time it took to you to get to this warbow poundage?)
Is the nock point maybe a little off on some of the bows? Just judging by the way the arrow flight looked. Also, which of these designs is your favorite to shoot?
Perhaps someone in the comments can help me out. I am considering giving archery an attempt and then only on a hobby basis and not with modern bows, but I am wondering what draw weight I should start with. I am reasonably strong and go to the gym rather often(under normal circumstances) and I am tall as well. Should I factor that in and grab a bow with a heavier draw weight or is it more prudent to buy something light and work my way up? If anyone is curious I think my gym lift that matters most here is my deadlift that is 200kg, and I am 6'4" with arms that have a wing span of roughly the same, although I'm not entirely sure what my draw length would be with a bow. Cheers
John Edvards Hi mate and welcome the the joy of archery. As a noob you should start light. You will be using muscle groups that you normally wouldn't use, and you need to develope good form. Starting with a heavy bow (over-bowing) will do nothing for you except create bad form habits and possibly even injure you. Your accuracy will not be good and chances are in the face of all these factors you will pack it in. Start with a light poundage bow. Most bows are weighted at a set draw length these days, namely - 28 inches of draw. For example if you are drawing a "20 pound" bow (20 pounds at 28 inches of draw length) at, say, 30 inches then you may be drawing around 25-27 pounds. I would suggest you get in contact with your local bow club and join up. There you will find a multitude of archers who will be more than willing to impart their "wisdom" and relate their experiences to you. For good shooting, form is everything and you will not be able to achieve this if you start with a bow that is too heavy. I have been shooting on and off for 35 years (constantly for the last 7 years) I am an instructor at my bow club and that is my two cents.
Chad very well said. I started with a 35 lbs bow and after a few years training my shot I finally ordered a 50 lbs English longbow. I’m sure that will do for many years.
Have you read what he wrote mister the instructor? He said he went to the gym and you reply by saying shooting a bow will use muscles he doesn't usually use? Did I miss something perhaps?
He just pulls those bows like other people pull a 50 pound bow. Its crazy. Interesting results. Those mary rose longbows seem to have been pretty deadly tools and not really weaker then modern bows. 200 fps for a D profile bow is fucking fast right? I thought thats only possible with recurves. But seems not. Master Bowyer.
It depends which modern bow you're comparing them to. Obviously the historical draw weights were higher than nearly all 21st-century bows, but at any given draw weight, compound bows perform dramatically better than yew longbows because of their increased energy storage. At 92lb compound at 30.5in can manage 129 foot-lbs (175 J) at 332 fps.
you might have already answered this question, but have you ever planned to talk about this new popular thing of losing arrows from right side using Mediterranean draw
"this new popular thing" That's just it mate, it's not. People have been shooting this way for centuries, all over the world. It's nothing new and all this controversy is ridiculous. Both the people claiming it's a lost secret and those claiming it's impossible are equally absurd.
It's not exactly "popular"...it's just that a few attention-seeking people with large subscriber counts recently posted some daft videos about it. This same thing happens every few years. Virtually no one in the heavy bow community actually does it. The method has got significant technical problems with it that get glossed over and suppressed: even respectful comments pointing out the problems get deleted. People shoot the conventional way for a reason.
thats exsact reason why i like to hear thoughts of guys who actualy know and do this stuff, i mean certain yt chanels lost all respect for me when they started babling on about stuff they had never done...and thats why i have huge respect towards you ryddragyn(Red Dragon :D) and towards mister Gibbs here. both of ya are amazing :)
@@Erpyrikk Same guy with a follow-up video: ua-cam.com/video/gjat0zqbQ-0/v-deo.html . Short version: he had been shooting heavy all day, got sloppy, and tilted his forward hand when he didn't need to (his commentary, not mine), and tore a muscle in his shoulder on that same side. Seems to indicate to me that if you want to give that method a try, it would probably be smart to practice with a draw weight well below your max, then work your way back up. You know, like most people do to build up to shooting heavy with any of the "conventional" draw methods.
I love your content but hate glass blows. They have way too much handshock and are way too loud compared to wooden bows. Wooden bows are much softer in the hand and sweeter to shoot. Also much lighter.
@@Joegibbs-archery That's great that they shoot well for you. I knew they had wooden cores as all glass bows are quite rare. My experience shooting glass bows and selfbows is that selfbows are sweeter shooting, lighter in the hand, and much quieter.
@@johnbloom1109 glass bows are rare ? I've had a 40 pound glass bow for years. I guess low poundage glass bows are not so rare ? I kept it as my dad bought it for me as a teen. It's over 35 years old and works fine.
150 pound english longbow shot 63gram arrow 206fps. 136 pount turkish bow shot 69 gram arrow 210fps, so heavier arrow faster with less pounds. Link for the test results www.atarn.org/islamic/akarpowicz/turkish_bow_tests.htm
I would like to see speed test done with proper manchu bow with 36" manchu draw and manchu heavy arrows, they are eaven heavier than what english used.
J kre Those tests by Adam Karpowicz were done with a shooting machine, they cannot be compared to hand shot bows through a chronograph. The difference is massive.
@@dgriswold93 Joe is very experienced archer, i don't belive that the difference is massive, but yes, it is still unfair to campare them, but thats the only turkish warbow speed test i know of. I wass allso told by Peter Decker, that they tested 80 lb manchu bow with 80 gram arrow and got 190 fps. So manchu bow eaven with so little pounds shoots an arrow with kinetic energy of about 130 joules. That is huge amount of energy for a 80 pound bow, i have never seen any other type of bow, exept maby modern compound, to get that power. That is about the same level of power as that Joes 150 lb elb, with 70 lb less, it is unbelievable, but true. But the trueth is, any composite bow is atleast as good as elb, many eaven better, otherwise it wouldn't make sence to eaven use the time and effort in making them. But elb is still good weapon and as quite cheap and quick to make, it makes exelent weapon to equip large amout of archers fast, the faster bow has better range, but the effect on the target is only about the arrow, when arrow goes up, it loses its speed, and while coming down, it regains its speed some, but cannot go faster than its terminal velocity, so ot long range, the bow matters little, only to the distance, it only matters whos arrow is heaviest, cus it will have highest terminal velocity. In Korea they used bigger and stronger bows (from 140 to 180 lb) to shoot 240 gram iron arrows at 90 meters, and their smaller (more famous) bow, 32 gram arrows at 400 meters. While those 32 gram arrows can be devastading in un armored force, it cannot do much against armored, but that 240 gram arrow, can. They had special elite force of 10000 archers using these strong bows and iron arrows, they were recuired to draw bows of 144 lb minimum. And the royal quard was recuired 177 lb minimum.
@@jkre Hi, just seeing this now so I figured I'd respond. There is in a fact a massive difference. Joe shot the 180 lb Crimean tartar bow made by Adam Karpowicz and got 211 fps with a 63.3 gram arrow. That same exact bow was test by Adam with a shooting machine before being sent to Joe and shot at 249 fps with a 63.9 gram arrow. That is a huge difference. Now of course, changes in climate, time being strung, small differences in draw length and different chronos could affect the results, but going off this, the difference is massive. They should not be compared in my opinion. As for the results with the Manchu bow, I've always been slightly skeptical. I've never seen anything else come close to replicating those results. And by the way, those results you mentioned do in fact surpass modern compound bows in efficiency by quite a bit…a little fishy for sure. I don't remember off the top of my head but that bow shot with something like 95% efficiency. Going from memory modern compounds generally shoot with around 80% efficiency with light arrows (their specialty) or around 85-90ish% with heavy arrows on a good day. Do you have any sources for the Korean archery stuff? I've always been interested but have found very little about those legendarily heavy arrows and bows. Thanks
Most bows will have pretty similar group sizes if shot using a machine and matched arrows; the main variable is typically the archer in that regard. What Joe Gibbs is testing here is how much of a difference bow shape and construction affect performance, which at these draw weights is not something typically seen.
*118.3 pounds recurve bow:*
60 gr and 28 inches arrow: 206.6 fps
63 gr and 30 inches arrow: 201.2 fps
_75 gr and 30 inches arrow: 186.7 fps_
*145.31 pounds mini recurve bow:*
60 gr and 28 inches arrow: 208.4 fps
63 gr and 30 inches arrow: 204.3 fps
75 gr and 30 inches arrow: 191.8 fps
*150 pounds recurve bow:*
75 gr and 30 inches arrow: 210.1 fps
*160 pounds flat bow:*
75 gr and 30 inches arrow: 207.5 fps
Love the videos! You are living history and sharing it. You should fill the dead air with your thoughts on the bows feel, maintenance, pros/cons and stories of making the bows+arrows (sourcing the materials, etc.). I think you would have a unique perspective that would be very informative. Keep the vids coming they are great!
I'd take him back to Agincourt and see his jaw drop at the sight of 250lb archers at work. This guy is a scumbag.
he draws 150lb bows like they're 25lbs. This is exactly what you'd expect hundreds of years ago, from a lifetime of training. A fleet of these guys would be an absolute war machine before the advent of guns.
He's 170-200lb fart lol, a decent size but at the battle of Agincourt they'd have been 250lb archers drawn from the very best from whole of England at the time.
This weasel has been in another weasel's video, where he couldn't penetrate French plate armour with a 160lb bow as he cant fire a 200lb bow 'all day', to these weasels that means NO-ONE at Agincourt could either HAHAHAAHAHAHAHA.
Fact is there were many archers, with specialist bows, and they would have decimated the French knights.
@@VarangianGuard200 knights wore armour because armour works. Arrows couldn’t penetrate the strongest parts of plate armour. Stop basing your facts on Hollywood movies, you donut.
@@VarangianGuard200 they wouldnt be 250 pounds mate lmao go research
Spread sheet has been updated with latest test results docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6EX94yEjq3YREXN28SYc8cf_cUeTwtMDfAYR6yeLVs/edit#gid=0
Thanks for taking the camera over to the chrony! It's a welcome sight to see someone focused on an accurate and legitimate result.
love this kind of vid, love to see those bows, ty dude :)
Thats the first time I've heard a 60 and 63g arrow called tiny little arrows 😂 You're a unit man.
thats the first time ive seen a 75 gram arrow go 207 fps holy shit
@@17yearoldwarbowarcher Yea, Joe sends some serious energy downrange lol.
I really enjoyed seeing the 150 pound recurve result. Thank you for that. I am interested to ask however, why you provide your arrow weight in grams rather than grains? Just the scale you happen to have? (For reference 60 gram ~ 925 grains, 63 grams ~ 975grains, 75gram ~ 1160 grains.)
That's what warbow archers tend to use. It's a big mash-up of metric and imperial units. Grams, inches, pounds, fps, joules.
i thought its a brit thing
how much do you think the blunts affect arrow speed?
Spook Boleyn depends how many u smoke u smoke a lot then u tend to just want to sit down and watch cartoons but if u just have a little go u can shoot pretty quick but to be fair it’s best to just not have any
I think I'd pretty quickly just start testing how high they could shoot, and how many I could catch in a row.
@@MrTangolizard lmao
If you mean, how much are the blunts affecting the velocity measurements in this video, the answer is almost certainly hardly at all. By the time the arrows in this video have passed through the Chrony, they've only been in flight for 15-20 milliseconds or so. Even if the blunts significantly increase the arrows' drag relative to what they'd experience if they had more aerodynamic tips, in all probability that just isn't enough time for the effect of the additional drag to show up in any noticeable or measurable (with a Chrony) way.
Another excelent video! Congrats!
Combined data for all shots:
118 lb at 30", Horn-style, 60 gram arrow -- 206.6 fps, 62.97m/s, 118.96J, 3.78kg m/s, η=59.47%.
118 lb at 30", Horn-style, 63 gram arrow -- 201.2 fps, 61.33m/s, 118.48J, 3.86kg m/s, η=59,23%.
118 lb at 30", Horn-style, 75 gram arrow -- 186.7 fps, 56.91m/s, 121.45J, 4.27kg m/s, η=60,71%.
145 lb at 31", Mini recurve, 60 gram arrow -- 208.4 fps, 63.52m/s, 121.04J, 3.81kg m/s, η=47,65%.
145 lb at 31", Mini recurve, 63 gram arrow -- 204.3 fps, 62.27m/s, 122.14J, 3.92kg m/s, η=48,08%.
145 lb at 31", Mini recurve, 75 gram arrow -- 191.8 fps, 58.46m/s, 128.16J, 4.38kg m/s, η=50,42%.
150 lb at 30", Recurve, 75 gram arrow -- 210.1 fps, 64.04m/s, 153.79J, 4.80kg m/s, η=60,47%.
160 lb at 30", Flatbow, 75 gram arrow -- 207.5 fps, 63.25m/s, 150.02J, 4.74kg m/s, η=55,31%.
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the video, I saw you in other video's and read a thing or two about your shooting but never realised you had your own youtube channel all these years.
At what distance do you reckon that you can hit the figure of a (stationary) man with a 150-160 lbs yew warbow? Is there a difference in accuracy between say your yew bow, a fiberglass one and tartar/steppe style hornbow?
Kind regards
There would NEVER be a difference in accuracy lmao how does a different type of bow change the accuracy. The efficiency yes. The recurves will always outperform a stick
I stopped shooting in my garden after neighbour handed me my arrow overthe fence one day. I have no idea how it ended up in the middle of his garden.
If his kid was playing there when it happened...
Yeah. No more garden shooting.
BIG OOPSIE ! Glad to get your arrow back without a child on the end.
When I was a kid, so like 8 or 9 I got a cheap fiberglass bow from my dad, one day me and a friend wondered if we could get an arrow over the roof of the house. So we stood in the garden, aimed up(or rather I did) and let the arrow fly.
It went over the roof and landed in the middle of the playground on the other side of the house just past a small road leading to the houses nearby.
Luckily nobody was hurt, and even then I remember understanding how stupid I had been and I never told my dad, I'm sure he would have been furious, with good reason.
Sometimes you do stupid things, and I'm glad your experience didn't end up any worse than mine.
@@agilagilsen8714 When I was a kid I got a cheap fiberglass bow as well. It had steel tipped fiberglass (I think) arrows as well. We went outside the store to a dirt field next to a parking lot. I guess they were going to build more parking lot there. So I shot the arrows at some cans and stuff. I then decided to shoot higher to shoot a bit longer. Even though it was a cheap bow, it certainly sent the arrow flying! Luckily it hit the wooden fence in front of the parking lot and not the cars or the people there. One guy almost head a heart attack from the loud bang of the impact. I hit the dirt as soon as I saw I didn't hurt anyone, so the guy had no idea what the sound was from.
I learned to respect the bow more after that...
Reading these comments reminded me of an arrow I let fly up into the air at a local shooting range as a kid. It landed 3 meters from a cow. Funny how we don't think of the possibilities as kids.
Joe I remember the test you did with armor could you do a test of your arrows and heavy Bows against Kevlar?
210.1 fps is the same as 64.038 m/s.
0.5 * 0.075 * 64.038^2 = 153.78 Joule
153.78 Joule is a lot for a bow with an arrow of that weight.
Pure muscle energy. Unbelievable.
I believe for "low" velocity applications like this, the momentum is actually more important then the energy. For example, a 9mm bullet has about 3 times the energy, about 450 Joules. The momentum of that 9mm bullet is about 3.8kg*m/s while the momentum of that arrow is 4.8kg*m/s. If i would be wearing a lvl 2 vest id worry more about the arrow then the bullet :)
By comparison the 160 lb had 135 J of kinetic energy.
Joe. I've got my hands on a bit of Yew and I know the piece that I want to pull from the log. Just wondering what length I should be looking at? What is a good length for a war bow? I've got a good smooth 7 feet without knots or branches. That is long enough isn't it?
And if you got an email, I'd like to show you the piece. Let me know what you think.
I LOVE ARCHERS
So what would you use a bow this heavy for? Elephant and Giraffe hunting?
Nice one.
I just getting into archery after spending a large part of my childhood making bows. I worked out the process of it being the wood that needs to bend thicker at hand. I had no books only films to go off.
This why I'm interested in different bows.
I made a real long bow n thought it be most powerful n stunned at 10 years old it being slower despite heavier pull.
I reckon English long how simply a war bow. Meaning quick easy to make.
But recurves are best? Like the horn bow. I want to see a 200lb horn bow style like the 1st bow u had. I reckon that be the most powerful of all?
Sorry waffling on. Just reignited my passion for archery again after decades lol
Can u make videos of u uotting armour? That one u did with the 160lbs bow...what if u fired from the side or even a slight angle.
Long bow always show like a battlefield but on a castle wall u would fire sideways at armour.
So the fps/pounds rate here is largely better on Recurved bows, but your recurved bows are less powerful than your flat bows (or mini recurve). Is there a reason ? The best one should be a 160 pounds recurved bow right ? Why don't you have it? (Sorry if the answer is obvious or soething, I'm a beginner and I'm curious :) ) By the way I could watch those bows firing for hours. Continue dude and why not make longer video, also in nature maybe :) Medieval archery is relaxing and wonderful to watch.
Hello. Can i ask. What do you use for your bowstring?
Would be nice to collect the data with a chart. A bit hard to keep track of the results across the three videos.
60g - 206.6 - 208.4
63g - 201.2 - 204.3
75g - 186.7 - 191.8 - 210.1 - 207.5
Hey Joe does the flat bow have any back set or string follow?
Hi joe. Great info and you really do make shooting those monsters look easy. Already mentioned in another comment but if you do another vid it would be really useful to include a comparison chart. Also, to put into perspective, how fast would a regular 40lb recurve shoot those heavier arrows?
Joe, very interesting results and quite a catalogue of videos! I used to shoot Howard Hill bows of up to 100lbs but I found that my shoulder joints became quite irritated so 70# is the max I shoot now. and I'm likely going lighter and lighter yet as I realize 50 lbs is all I need for my hunting requirements. I appreciate how much work it takes to develop the strength it takes to draw and shoot some of the monsters you have!
I know your speed results are of a single shot from a single bow but the results are still of interest from a technical point of view. Could we get a table in the comments section confirming the bow style, bow length, approximate bow weight at arrow length, arrow weight and arrow speed. Yes, I am afraid I have succumbed to the technical analysis of grains arrow weight per pound of bow weight and the resulting velocity..... Those who can, shoot and those who can't look at numbers!!!!!
After watching a few of your videos , which are very good I am asking if its worth going for that heavy bow compared to moderates when it doesn't seem to warrant it speed wise, and your lawn mower needs a run mate lol..
It isn't a bow's maximum draw weight that yields arrow velocity. Velocity primarily has to do with how much energy the bow stores and how heavy the arrow is. Secondarily, velocity is influenced by the mass of the bow's limbs (heavier equals slower) and the distribution of that mass (more mass distributed toward the limbs' tips will result in a slower arrow than mass distributed toward the non-working parts of the bow). As long as all other things are proportionately equal, a light arrow shot from a light bow will travel just as fast as a heavy arrow shot from a heavy bow, but the heavy arrow will have more kinetic energy and momentum.
I agree with Marmocet. Increased draw weight means increased arrow mass to match arrow spine to the bow, and increased limb mass, so diminishing returns on arrow speed. You can get round this (like the ottoman Turks achieving arrow speeds of over 300fps) with very short, light arrows and an overdraw device, and very short recurved limbs. The point is that these wouldn’t do much damage to soldiers with various forms of armour. For a war bow, Increasd poundage does increase arrow speed a little but more importantly it adds more kinetic energy to the arrow which, joe has demonstrated with Todd, has the power to punch through gambeson and mail.
@@ttneiltt1 I don't think a heavy bow will necessarily be any more likely to shoot arrows that penetrate armour than a light bow. Armour penetration will have more to do with the ratio of kinetic energy (or momentum) to arrow diameter. Unless there is something non-linear going on with arrow shaft stiffness with respect to diameter or some other important factor, the reason to go with a heavier bow would be that, conditional on having penetrated the armour, a heavier bow's thicker arrow makes a larger wound than a lighter bow's narrower one.
Here's a video of some guy launching various projectiles to see if they'll penetrate a polycarbonate resin riot shield. See how bolts, arrows, rocks and slingshot balls bounce harmlessly off the shield but a dart from a low energy blow gun manages to achieve some penetration: ua-cam.com/video/VS3pWwlqp8c/v-deo.html
(At the end, a bolt with a modern broadhead tip shot from a modern crossbow slices clean through the shield.)
@@Marmocet KE to arrow diameter is a very simple look of things. Internal bow ballistics, Total energy put by drawing the string is split between the bow and the arrow. A lighter arrow would leave the limbs traveling faster and such more energy out of the total into the bow. Traveling through the air a faster arrow has more resistance and loses more energy than a slower arrow. Terminal ballistics varies too much but small mass differences might not show any difference between heavy or light arrow given the same energy at impact. All in all heavy arrows get more energy out of the bow, fly losing less energy per distance and impact with higher momentum.
Joe, you have a different technique than other archers I've seen. Could you make like a FAQ video where you talk about how and why you learned to shoot like this? Maybe even a quick instructional video. Thanks.
Hi, sorry for the trouble, who is the manufacturer of the 140lb mini-recurve Bow?
It seems that in the higher poundages the ELB is approaching the same efficiency as the fancy laminated recurve designs. However in war reliability is more important than all out performance. ELBs would probably be easier to look after as natural composite bows would risk delamination in hot or damp conditions. Also when out of arrows or if the enemy had closed to melee range a destrung ELB would make an effective spear or staff with which to beat the enemy to death whereas a hornbow would be pretty useless in that situation. Also being straight the ELB is easy to store and transport. Logistics matter in war!
Would it be possible to get the information on were you got those bows.
I have been trying to find bows like them.
I make them my self also for sale to
Joe
I know this is selfis, but i hope you have seen Jorges slingshot channel, instantllegolas bow attachment. The newer versions have pull assists, and i have tought could you shoot 300 pound bow with that attachment. The only limiting factor i thing the pull assist has is users push strength, therefore theoreticaly if this pull assist would bee like 100/120 pound and attached too like 280/300 pound bow it should feel similar too pull as 160/200 pound bow. Now i am wondering if this kind of monster of a bow would be able to penetrate plate armor un like that 160 pound bow you tested on tod workshop chanel. of this bow would requier special arrows more like a spears i think :D. I am sure many people would love you guys to test this out.
What type of epoxy do you use for your heavy laminate bows
Where can I buy a bow like 1st ibe u had? Thank u
What is the best finger tab or where do you get yours?? I'm sick of wasting money on rock climbers tape to pad mine out! Thanks
Mate, with your unique talents you could make good coin if you made regular videos on UA-cam.
In the world, without a doubt, its bows are among the best. If they are not the best and most powerful! If I had a lot of money, I would buy all those bows.
Hi Joe. So from the tests you have done so far on what are heavy bows do you find that arrow weight and draw length aside, its poundage thats the main factor determining speed. With lighter weights bow bow design plays a dominant role but at the poundages yr shooting maybe it comes down to brute power?
Joe where are you getting these bows from? I searched online for a while and for some reason heaviest bows I found had 80lbs draw weight.
I make and sell them. Are you interested
Joe Gibbs sure, have you got your own website I can check out?
Joe I want to buy a bow with some arrows plz how can I bought while I'm from Pakistan. Also imform me about price in Pak currency
Hillbillybows@gmail.com contact me here
Do traditional longbows want to shoot left. Yes i know this can be form issues but outside of that do they shoot left?
Joe chech how "Paul Harrel" deals with the cronograph (with firearms though), it works well for him, it might be a good solution for you as well.
A lot of people prefers to watch the cronograph tests in their entirety.
Paul Harrell simply announces the numbers that appear on his chronograph, but you can't actually see what those numbers are from the camera angle he chooses to use. That's fine for his channel because there generally aren't very many skeptics on the exact muzzle velocities of firearms. But the world of archery is way different. People care a lot more about the exact velocities that these bows can achieve, down to within a few feet per second. Because a difference of ten feet per second represents a huge difference in power.
@@johnbarron4265 intersting info,i had no clue...i find it sad that people in the archery community can be skeptical about Joe announcing a number,really weird to me but i guess it is what it is:-)
Love it more science please
Instead of moving the camera back and forth maybe you could use a second camera pointed at the display. Maybe there is a bit of video editing but it shouldn't be too difficult...
Dicks would still claim the second camera was not showing the speed of the bow being used in the main shot.
Hi @Joe Gibbs, I am doing sportive and 3d shooting for over a year. For the moment i developped enough strength and stamina to be consistent and performant on a 60# modern longbow, doing around 160-200 shots 5-6 days per week. Can you give me some advices, how to build the strength to go up to 125# at 28" draw. I know that muscles grow pretty fast, but what sucks, it is joints and tendons, taking much more time to adapt. How much time it took to you to get to this warbow poundage?)
Crataegus if this helps, he states in another video that he started at around age 14 with I forget a 70 lb bow and moved on up throughout the years.
Is the nock point maybe a little off on some of the bows? Just judging by the way the arrow flight looked. Also, which of these designs is your favorite to shoot?
What wood do you make these bows with?
Macho man, well beyond the normal persons hunting, target or any other type of shooting
where are you finding these heavy weight bows or are you making them?
He makes them.
Perhaps someone in the comments can help me out. I am considering giving archery an attempt and then only on a hobby basis and not with modern bows, but I am wondering what draw weight I should start with. I am reasonably strong and go to the gym rather often(under normal circumstances) and I am tall as well. Should I factor that in and grab a bow with a heavier draw weight or is it more prudent to buy something light and work my way up?
If anyone is curious I think my gym lift that matters most here is my deadlift that is 200kg, and I am 6'4" with arms that have a wing span of roughly the same, although I'm not entirely sure what my draw length would be with a bow.
Cheers
John Edvards Hi mate and welcome the the joy of archery. As a noob you should start light. You will be using muscle groups that you normally wouldn't use, and you need to develope good form. Starting with a heavy bow (over-bowing) will do nothing for you except create bad form habits and possibly even injure you. Your accuracy will not be good and chances are in the face of all these factors you will pack it in. Start with a light poundage bow. Most bows are weighted at a set draw length these days, namely - 28 inches of draw. For example if you are drawing a "20 pound" bow (20 pounds at 28 inches of draw length) at, say, 30 inches then you may be drawing around 25-27 pounds. I would suggest you get in contact with your local bow club and join up. There you will find a multitude of archers who will be more than willing to impart their "wisdom" and relate their experiences to you. For good shooting, form is everything and you will not be able to achieve this if you start with a bow that is too heavy. I have been shooting on and off for 35 years (constantly for the last 7 years) I am an instructor at my bow club and that is my two cents.
Chad very well said. I started with a 35 lbs bow and after a few years training my shot I finally ordered a 50 lbs English longbow. I’m sure that will do for many years.
Have you read what he wrote mister the instructor? He said he went to the gym and you reply by saying shooting a bow will use muscles he doesn't usually use? Did I miss something perhaps?
He just pulls those bows like other people pull a 50 pound bow. Its crazy. Interesting results. Those mary rose longbows seem to have been pretty deadly tools and not really weaker then modern bows. 200 fps for a D profile bow is fucking fast right? I thought thats only possible with recurves. But seems not. Master Bowyer.
It depends which modern bow you're comparing them to. Obviously the historical draw weights were higher than nearly all 21st-century bows, but at any given draw weight, compound bows perform dramatically better than yew longbows because of their increased energy storage. At 92lb compound at 30.5in can manage 129 foot-lbs (175 J) at 332 fps.
you might have already answered this question, but have you ever planned to talk about this new popular thing of losing arrows from right side using Mediterranean draw
"this new popular thing"
That's just it mate, it's not.
People have been shooting this way for centuries, all over the world. It's nothing new and all this controversy is ridiculous. Both the people claiming it's a lost secret and those claiming it's impossible are equally absurd.
It's not exactly "popular"...it's just that a few attention-seeking people with large subscriber counts recently posted some daft videos about it. This same thing happens every few years. Virtually no one in the heavy bow community actually does it. The method has got significant technical problems with it that get glossed over and suppressed: even respectful comments pointing out the problems get deleted. People shoot the conventional way for a reason.
thats exsact reason why i like to hear thoughts of guys who actualy know and do this stuff, i mean certain yt chanels lost all respect for me when they started babling on about stuff they had never done...and thats why i have huge respect towards you ryddragyn(Red Dragon :D) and towards mister Gibbs here. both of ya are amazing :)
@@ryddragyn somebody did try it with a 140lb bow and partially tore a his shoulder muscle
@@Erpyrikk Same guy with a follow-up video: ua-cam.com/video/gjat0zqbQ-0/v-deo.html . Short version: he had been shooting heavy all day, got sloppy, and tilted his forward hand when he didn't need to (his commentary, not mine), and tore a muscle in his shoulder on that same side. Seems to indicate to me that if you want to give that method a try, it would probably be smart to practice with a draw weight well below your max, then work your way back up. You know, like most people do to build up to shooting heavy with any of the "conventional" draw methods.
Tiny little arrow at 60 grams. Lol. Its another world of archery.
What sort of line do you use to string your bows?
Which arrows do you use?
I love your content but hate glass blows. They have way too much handshock and are way too loud compared to wooden bows. Wooden bows are much softer in the hand and sweeter to shoot. Also much lighter.
Theses aren't solid glass bows. They have wood cores. They are very light in the hand and lovely to shoot
@@Joegibbs-archery That's great that they shoot well for you. I knew they had wooden cores as all glass bows are quite rare. My experience shooting glass bows and selfbows is that selfbows are sweeter shooting, lighter in the hand, and much quieter.
@@johnbloom1109 glass bows are rare ?
I've had a 40 pound glass bow for years. I guess low poundage glass bows are not so rare ? I kept it as my dad bought it for me as a teen. It's over 35 years old and works fine.
Can someone please work out the MPH? Thank you.
206 fps is 140 mph. You can Google it
@@Joegibbs-archery Cheers Joe .... love ya work.
It just goes to prove, the English Longbow takes some beating ✌🏻probably only bettered by a good crossbow 👍🏻
150 pound english longbow shot 63gram arrow 206fps. 136 pount turkish bow shot 69 gram arrow 210fps, so heavier arrow faster with less pounds. Link for the test results www.atarn.org/islamic/akarpowicz/turkish_bow_tests.htm
I would like to see speed test done with proper manchu bow with 36" manchu draw and manchu heavy arrows, they are eaven heavier than what english used.
J kre Those tests by Adam Karpowicz were done with a shooting machine, they cannot be compared to hand shot bows through a chronograph. The difference is massive.
@@dgriswold93 Joe is very experienced archer, i don't belive that the difference is massive, but yes, it is still unfair to campare them, but thats the only turkish warbow speed test i know of. I wass allso told by Peter Decker, that they tested 80 lb manchu bow with 80 gram arrow and got 190 fps. So manchu bow eaven with so little pounds shoots an arrow with kinetic energy of about 130 joules. That is huge amount of energy for a 80 pound bow, i have never seen any other type of bow, exept maby modern compound, to get that power. That is about the same level of power as that Joes 150 lb elb, with 70 lb less, it is unbelievable, but true.
But the trueth is, any composite bow is atleast as good as elb, many eaven better, otherwise it wouldn't make sence to eaven use the time and effort in making them. But elb is still good weapon and as quite cheap and quick to make, it makes exelent weapon to equip large amout of archers fast, the faster bow has better range, but the effect on the target is only about the arrow, when arrow goes up, it loses its speed, and while coming down, it regains its speed some, but cannot go faster than its terminal velocity, so ot long range, the bow matters little, only to the distance, it only matters whos arrow is heaviest, cus it will have highest terminal velocity.
In Korea they used bigger and stronger bows (from 140 to 180 lb) to shoot 240 gram iron arrows at 90 meters, and their smaller (more famous) bow, 32 gram arrows at 400 meters. While those 32 gram arrows can be devastading in un armored force, it cannot do much against armored, but that 240 gram arrow, can. They had special elite force of 10000 archers using these strong bows and iron arrows, they were recuired to draw bows of 144 lb minimum. And the royal quard was recuired 177 lb minimum.
@@jkre Hi, just seeing this now so I figured I'd respond. There is in a fact a massive difference. Joe shot the 180 lb Crimean tartar bow made by Adam Karpowicz and got 211 fps with a 63.3 gram arrow. That same exact bow was test by Adam with a shooting machine before being sent to Joe and shot at 249 fps with a 63.9 gram arrow. That is a huge difference. Now of course, changes in climate, time being strung, small differences in draw length and different chronos could affect the results, but going off this, the difference is massive. They should not be compared in my opinion.
As for the results with the Manchu bow, I've always been slightly skeptical. I've never seen anything else come close to replicating those results. And by the way, those results you mentioned do in fact surpass modern compound bows in efficiency by quite a bit…a little fishy for sure. I don't remember off the top of my head but that bow shot with something like 95% efficiency. Going from memory modern compounds generally shoot with around 80% efficiency with light arrows (their specialty) or around 85-90ish% with heavy arrows on a good day.
Do you have any sources for the Korean archery stuff? I've always been interested but have found very little about those legendarily heavy arrows and bows.
Thanks
Why grams?
It's what we use
I’d rather see group sizes than speeds. Not sure what the point of it all is?
You will but most people dont know the speed these bows can do so that's the point of the videos 🙄
Most bows will have pretty similar group sizes if shot using a machine and matched arrows; the main variable is typically the archer in that regard. What Joe Gibbs is testing here is how much of a difference bow shape and construction affect performance, which at these draw weights is not something typically seen.
Those comments...