MY TRANS ANDROGYNY: Why The Terms Feminine & Masculine Don’t Fit Me
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- In this video I discus the term Trans Androgynous and how that intertwines into my identity, and also as to why masculine & feminine do not. as well as those, I also discuss the reason why Trans Masculine & Trans Feminine can be problematic at times.
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As someone (AMAB) who recently came out as genderfluid/non-binary/trans, and have flip-flopped between them for ~4 years, I greatly appreciate you filling in what I feel is an empty gap on youtube of AMAB enby creators. I love hearing stories from people that describe how I feel, in a way I couldn't put into my own words. Thank you :)
I’m really glad I can help 💛 I wish there would’ve been more AMAB enby representation when I started my transition/questioning my gender so I’m glad I can be that for you and so many others 💛
Congratulations on your move! Nice to hear from you again.
I find the idea of a gender triangle instead of a spectrum very plausible and gives one more options,
to situate yourself. I'm probably somewhere between androgynous and female in the triangle (AMAB).
But since I am currently still in the middle of transitioning, it's better not to make a big fuss about it, because in
Germany, where I live, there is some gatekeeping.
So for the gatekeepers I am 100% female ;-)
Thank you! And yeah, hate keeping definitely isn’t fun. Sometimes I “simplify” my gender to “gender non conforming female” for the sake of simplicity and ease, especially when it comes to strangers, so I totally get that.
Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Conceptually I view the terms ‘transfeminine’ and ‘transmasculine’ as dyadic relational terms: I am feminine disproportionate to my assigned male gender (a relation), and so I am trans and specifically ‘transfeminine’, although, more generally, I consider myself androgynous, or sometimes even masculine in some other relationality. ‘Transfeminine’ is thus simply another way to say you’re trans and ‘AMAB’, or trans in the ‘AMAB’ way, if that makes sense. Such terms can be used and are appropriate only when assigned gender is relevant.
That makes a lot of sense. And I think I sort of do the same, but only in reference to my transition in medical terms. “Trans feminine” aka “transgender and AMAB.”
I totally agree that the terms transfeminine and transmasculine often end up reinforcing the binary of mainstream society. I've personally gotten around this so far by describing myself as femme or transfemme, since to myself those terms seem accurate where feminine or transfeminine don't. I'm AMAB and also have been medically transitioning through hormones and potentially other procedures, but my goal is much more to be kind of how you described; I would like for people to sometimes not know immediately how to categorize me, but where I think we may differ is that I do sometimes want to be perceived as AFAB and I would much rather people guess that I was AFAB even if they double-take first.
I also really like and use the identity of hard femme, which is a lesbian identity kind of in the same dimensional scale as soft butch but in the other corner- you could also have a soft femme or a hard butch but those are much more typically associated with the dominant characteristics of those genders anyway so the descriptive prefix isn't as necessary. Another thing about lesbian identities that I've found odd lately is that I don't like to consider myself a lesbian, and never use the term for myself, but I'm okay thinking of myself as sapphic because apparently to my brain it feels more vague and less "woman-only." I'm definitely a femme attracted to other femmes (as well as many other nonbinary people) but I'm simultaneously definitely *not* a woman attracted to (only) other women.
I totally think there should be more options for nonbinary people to describe themselves and I think transandrogynous is a great term that should be more widely used, I just personally lean far enough toward femme that I'm comfortable using it. Feminine does make me uncomfortable though, and I suspect always would have even if I were AFAB; I used to really want to be a tomboy, but never was super into the hyperfeminine kinds of stuff pushed on some little girls.
Short version: I know to some people they're interchangeable, but to me feminine and femme have different flavors of identity or gender, and I'm comfortable with femme but not feminine. I don't think there's a comparable thing for masculine though, which is possibly unfortunate for some nonbinary people.
That makes a lot of sense, I really enjoy what you said about “soft butch” and “hard femme,” that’s something I never really thought of. I agree about sapphic being vague in a sense, where as lesbian can feel much more specific.
I totally get what you mean about feminine and femme being different, or at least feeling different, even if many people may use them as the same as each other. In a similar way. I loved reading your response and hearing your insight on all of that. Thank you!! 💛
Like words right out of my mouth, so me, except I never thought of myself as a tomboy, and I love going all femme sometimes. Femme and feminine are def separate terms, though the cishets will likely not realize there's a difference. I default to using 'transfem' when gender assigned at birth is relevant (as it often is, in many ways AFAB people have it so much easier when it comes to outside appearance), and I consider it more neutral than transfemme (which I do like) and transfeminine (which I don't really use). But I also don't generally want people to know I'm AMAB and wouldn't want to out others like that ofc in general, and some AMAB trans people don't want to have anything to do with the fem side either, so unfortunately transfem doesn't work for everyone. Language is hard
I feel exactly the same way about trans feminine and trans masculine when it comes to my own identity. I like to use trans neutral or trans andronogous (can’t spell it haha) or agenderflux
I like trans neutral as well! And don’t worry it always takes me a few tries to spell androgynous 😂 I’ll have to look into agenderflux I haven’t heard that one before!
Ooo, I like trans neutral too! That almost feels more accurate for me.
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@@brynavery Yeah, androgyny is andro+gyny which implies a mix of masculine and feminine traits, and I don't want to have anything to do with the masculine side (as seen by society) but don't want to be all femme all the time either. So some sort of neutral term would be nice. But saying 'neutral' doesn't feel optimal either, kinda implies neutering your outside appearance vs feeling free to dress however you like etc. I really like the triangle idea, where I'd be on the line between femme and 'neutral', instead of between femme and masc where it would feel like I need to be really careful not to cross over the line into masc territory. I want to reclaim supposed masc traits, like I don't consider flannel wearing butch lesbians masculine, like pigeonholing butch women dating femmes into the "man's" role in the archaic (but quite new) ideal of a nuclear family setting (a system I consider the source of so many issues in our world) feels like a huge concession to the patriarchal/natalistic system built to put us all into neat boxes so we're easier to control.
Sorry for the rant, hopefully that's legible enough :)
SAME Agenderflux is awesome!!
So cool to see a unique perspective like this represented so well. Thank you for advancing trans discourse by really diving deep on trans androgyny ❤️
I feel like you said something about this in an earlier video, but referring to the hormone therapy as feminising instead of the person themselves as transfem might be a solution? And even better to call that hormonal treatment as Estrogenic, that way you don't even fill in if the desired effect is meant to feminise, or ungender (degender?) or whatever! Exactly because the same treatment means so many different kinds of things to us!
Ah, I like that! Yes, it explains the purpose of the medicinal treatment rather than the identity of the patient/person. I like that for sure.
I'm AMAB, I feel like I flow on a spectrum of masculine and feminine energies, but I don't feel like a man or a woman, and certainly don't feel trans-feminine. I am afraid to express myself as androgynous because or my social situations, but i do feel its what I truly want. Anyway, Thank you for making this video! I always find myself feeling confused and pushed and pulled between masculine or feminine or man or woman by the social spheres I occupy, because most people just aren't aware, and it's hard to really express myself as who I am when everyone sort of doesn't get it, but when I watch your videos it helps me recenter on my identity, and reminds me that yes my identity is valid and that I am not alone being nonbinary/genderqueer. You help put into words feelings I couldn't describe yet!
I’m so glad my videos are able to help you feel valid and understood. I know exactly how you feel, and it can definitely be frustrating. It took me years to accept my identity and then even longer to start expressing it in the way that I want to. Best of luck to you on your journey 💛
@@brynavery Thank you! 💚
Of course 💛
Always relate so hard to your videos, thanks for making this!
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Lovely, comforting and affirming video, as always! I never resonated much with femininity per se but always felt close to masculine presenting women. So I sometimes describe myself as a butch or a desfem guy (do people use the term desfem in English?... it means something like un-femme). I too see this conception of the gender spectrum as a line that goes from one extreme to the other as somewhat inadequate, especially because it implies that people by default start on the extreme that matches the sex they were assigned at birth and then move linearly to the other side. I mean, yes I was born a boy but my experience is more like moving simultaneously towards masculinity (trying to figure out how to stop midway in an androginous zone) and away from manhood.
I love the way you worded all that, and I definitely agree with everything you said. I wish people would understand that the gender spectrum isn’t a line, it’s much more complex. I’ve never heard the term desfem before but I like it!
I agree with you. Love your take on NB. I hate being gendered as male but have little choice do to my age and genetic characteristics. Being NB is a complicated affair for me.
Best of luck to you. Even if/when you get misgendered, you are valid and always will be 💛 💛💛
You're an absolutely stunning person! I'm so happy that you're willing to share your stories about transition issues. I'm also AMAB non-binary, personally not on HRT but I've often considered it. Anyway, keep the great content coming; I look forward to your vids, and even recommend your channel to other AMAB non-binary people. Thank you!
Thank you! So glad you love my content! And that warms my heart that you recommend me to your AMAB non binary friends 🥺 I’m always glad to help 💛
hiii Bryn so glad to see you again!! and the crisp background in your new home with the ringlight, the professionalism ugh! excited to hear what you have to say on this topic x
Aww yay! Thank you!! I really like the brick background
I am AFAB trans man, yet I express myself feminine. I think that the terms are kinda pushing people into boxes, even identitywise.
I've been told that I'm not allowed to be feminine because I am a trans man, that if I like dresses and having curvy body, then I'm cis and I shall shut up...
You brought great points here, thank you, it made me think about things and opened my mind at some point.
After all, feminine and woman and masculine and man, there's a difference, which people ignore so often. And with non-binary people, they're so often overlooked or invalidated :(
Also you look amazing!
I totally agree. Gender is such a nuanced subject and there really are no clear-cut answers for what certain terms mean-it’s very much perceptive. But because we live in a society where people are taught that gender & gender expression are black & white (aka binary) when we live with gender for what it is (nuanced and a gray area) it can confuse people who don’t understand the complexities of gender. All of that to say, regardless of how others feel, you are totally valid. You know who you are better than anyone, and even if other people don’t understand or can’t fathom that, that’s ok. You’re still you regardless of other peoples perceptions.
I used to be insecure about wearing men’s clothes, as an AMAB enby. I used to think it “discredited” my gender identity and I pressured myself to dress traditionally feminine. But overtime I felt more comfortable and began wearing what I like, regardless of if other people respected it or not. I know that’s not always plausible and can cause dysphoria (for example if dressing “in alignment” with your assigned sex will get you misgendered or something). But I’m just saying for me, the freedom of living as myself outweighed the negative judgements from other people.
All this to say, you can be trans and still like dresses or makeup or love your body or not want to be on HRT/get surgeries, you can want long hair or enjoying moving your hips when you walk. Anything at all. And I know it can be hard to not let the expectations/judgements of the world get you down, but just know you are valid always 💛
I, too, have been using trans androgynous for a while
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Great video! I like the brick background; it looks really nice and fits your energy on UA-cam. I also really like and relate with the term trans androgynous. I had watched another video about the problematic usage of trans feminine and masculine, which I was glad you touched on as well.
Thank you!! I think I’ll probably just keep filming with the brick wall instead of a different area in my house. I’m glad you enjoyed my video 💛
Just found your channel and I could cry... I'm an AFAB bigender person who recently discovered "trans androgynous" and the term just felt SO right but I also felt SO alone in it. Thank you for talking about it 💖💖💖
That makes me so happy my channel is able to be something you resonate with! Trans androgynous has been such a useful and comforting label for me and I’m glad you’re able to find someone else who feels that way as well 💛
I relate to all what you said here and the term transandrogynous makes total sense, even though in my case I just describe myself as non binary.
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Hey there. Please make the video on how you "winged your transition." I feel like I'm in the same boat as you and I would love some advice on how to navigate it.
I was already planning on it! Haven’t filmed it yet but I will be doing so soon 😊
I'm non-binary, and I'm beginning to hate disclosing my assigned sex at birth. I think people would try to figure out how to categorize me, and interact with me, based on the gender a doctor gave me when I was born. Trans femme, trans masc, trans andro-- all those terms don't fit me. I'm not masc, I'm not femme, I'm not andro. Just me. I'm totally separate from the gender spectrum. Gender makes less than no sense to me. I can't comprehend what the concepts of masculinity, femininity, and androgyny actually mean.
That makes a lot of sense! I have a friend who feels that way as well. Some people are completely disconnected from gender and that’s totally ok. 💛💛💛
i know a few people who call themself trans androgynous, including me. i’m also trans androgynous.
btw i like this background with these yellow pillows.
Awesome! I wish I knew more people who used the term trans androgynous. And awesome thank you! I’m really enjoying the brick background 😊💛
@@brynavery it’s not easy to find people who are like yourself, but maybe you could start make a discord server for this topic, to talk about trans androgynous problems and to connect with others who feel the same
Oh that sounds like a great idea! Honestly I’ve never used discord, I have some friends who have though. How do you use it? Lol
I feel similar, but just in a different scenario. Ive been headed down the beginnings of the MTF path for a while now, but have come to realize I just don't feel transwoman or transfemine are terms that describe me well enough (however mostly due to stereotypical assumptions made by others as you stated, regardless of whether we should care for those assumptions or not). I desire to present as nearly entirely female, but feel that my desire to keep my male voice, lack of desire to have surgery (I prefer my male genitalia), lack of dysphoria relating to how im viewed or what pronouns are used (im accepting of all), bisexuality (while not necessarily related), etc, makes me feel distant to most of the transwomen I meet in online support groups. Leaves me in this confusing paradox of wondering whether im "transwoman enough" (which is a misnomer in itself) or just some form of trans-androgynous (which I identify with mostly for now). I feel as though the problem more than anything is derived from the assumption made of femininity in general (cis or trans feminity that is). Defining femininity is not so easy without immediately applying biases/assumptions/stereotypes, as gender norms themselves are a construct. Whether you identify as a transwoman or transandogynous could very well come down to simply where you draw your own lines on what defines femininity, which is a subjective practice naturally.
You said all of that so effortlessly and I love the way you worded all of it. I really liked the part about how you identify is basically just where you draw the lines on what defines femininity. It’s definitely a tricky thing to navigate. And especially from what you said about interacting with other trans women, it can feel like you’re not “trans woman enough” to be a trans woman. And that can be so confusing. I actually saw someone a few days ago on tiktok who’s a trans woman and is perfectly fine with her deep voice and her genitals. And it made me really happy because similarly to what you said, there can be a lot of pressure to conform to societal standards of what it means to be a woman in general, but also what it should look like to be a trans woman. I think it’s really great that you know yourself well enough to know what things do and don’t give you Dysphoria, and that you’re not trying to transition or identify in a way that others would deem “correct.” I know it can still be confusing, and I don’t want to sound like I’m dismissing those feelings. I just want to remind you that you’ve come so far and you should be really proud of that. I hope navigating your transition and your journey and figuring out what labels (if any) apply to you and resonate with you. Best of luck with everything down the road 💛
@@brynavery I find myself searching for people just like the tik tok user you described (part of why I ended up on this video in fact!), ironically though only in some attempt to find affirmation that I am ok as I am. And I or anyone else shouldn't be doing any of that. We are all perfectly ok the way we are or choose to be! Its just so easy to say that outwardly to other people, yet so difficult to admit it to ourselves. We are our own worst critics afterall, even cis people can sympathize with that much at least. And no, it doesn't sound dismissive, I definitely experience less dysphoria than most do which I am of course happy about but also feel bad about as I have to be more careful when comparing myself to other trans people who experience differing degrees of dysphoria. In some ways however, as you described it, it feels like a superpower. An ability to challenge those norms without feeling the pressures so many trans people do to conform to such stereotypes, so that perhaps I among others can pave a way for those who feel uncomfortable being themselves to be more comfortable. And whether you realize it or not, you are doing so with these videos as well. I've subscribed and watched a couple more since yesterday. But hearing you talk about your experiences helps people like myself find solace in being who we are and not letting those stereotypes matter so much. And that's priceless.
@@Salem_Alexandria I definitely agree that we are ok (not just ok, but wonderful) the way we are. And what you said about us being our own worst critic, that definitely sits with me too. Right around a year ago was the first time I actually felt love for myself, instead of just knowing I deserve to be loved. And a big part of feeling that was based on me forgiving myself for things and not being so hypercritical of myself like I have been my whole life. I’m so glad my videos have been a place of solace for you, and I think you have a really healthy and beautiful perspective on all of the things you mentioned in your reply. You should be really proud of yourself for the amount of self awareness you have and your ability to put your best foot forward and navigate you journey the way you want to, rather than the way society may try to tell you that you should. Thank you for reaching out, I always love hearing how my stories and experiences are able to help people, it makes me feel like all the years I was lost and confused and frustrated have purpose. Not just for me but for the community of people like me. Best wishes to you 💛
Hello I love your rings, I've bought rings but often have to get them resized. At the moment I love turquoise rings. Have a great day and love your videos.
Aw thank you!! I get mine off of Etsy. I actually have them linked in the description box of my videos!
Love your videos ❤️ look forward to them
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Imma just stick to trans gender non conforming when ppl ask. Trans androgynous is definitely something I understand as I used to identify with being androgyne. I still do as trans androgyne interchangeably with tgnc. Do what works for you!
💛💛💛 I think trans gender non conforming is wonderful as well. I think it’s probably more broad than trans androgynous so I can definitely see the benefit in using that title/label/description as well 💛
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Congrats on your move. :)
Thank you! 😊
You only have 2 fingers left to complete with rings.
Yeah idk if I’ll end up putting rings on every finger. I think I’m good with just most of my fingers being covered in rings lol
@@brynavery Well, adore it and buy more, until all fingers are completed. I think you're obsessed with rings.