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AoE4 - Trader Efficiency + Analysis [Gigantic map only - updated vid in description for all sizes]
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2024
- UPDATE: Updated video for all map sizes here: • AoE4 - Trader Gold/sec...
Each map size has a different gold equation, and this older video was based only on the gigantic map equation.
Gold rates for traders at various distances are analyzed and compared to villager mining rates.
Age of Empires IV © Microsoft Corporation. This video was created under Microsoft's "Game Content Usage Rules" using assets from Age of Empires IV, and it is not endorsed by or affiliated with Microsoft. www.xbox.com/e...
This data is partially incorrect, it was tested on gigantic only and there are different formulas for each maps size. An updated video (which rushes through the graphs without going into the detail that this video did) can be found here: ua-cam.com/video/0T1zDpYxzCU/v-deo.html
Gold gain per trip is exponential but the gold per second is linear because longer distances take longer than complete. Overall a very solid system.
If you can pull off across the map routes in a team game it's hilarious. I've ended matches with 40k gold
hmmm no its quadratic ?
@@bowiebrewster6266 yeah, the formula is a 2nd degree polynomial
@@maddisonmad2710 Right so its not exponential like you said
Thank you very much, this puts things into more perspective.
im supposed to study for an economics test tomorrow so goal achieved
So I excluded bugs from this video in the hope that they'll be fixed quickly, and not wanting to have to make another video when that happens. There are a few important bugs to be aware of:
French: The 30% bonus from the landmark does not currently apply to gold, but does apply to other resources.
Mongols: The stone/gold bonus from the improved upgrade currently only grants stone.
Mongols: Sometimes you can get unexpected amounts from the quantity bonuses. In one test, I got 10%food/gold from tier 1; 10% wood/gold from tier 2; and nothing from tier 3. In another test, I got the correct 10% in each tier.
If anyone else found trader bugs, please leave a comment and I'll add it to this pinned comment.
@@Titaniusburn2 Walking around a forest gives the same gold per trip as a direct path, so you'll be losing a lot of gold/sec - always aim for the most direct route possible.
My guy posted his R^2s for video game analysis, I love it.
I like your channel man. Good luck becoming the new Spirit of the Law for AOE4.
Much appreciated!
Awesome video! Quality content and editing 👍
Thanks!
You're like AoE 4's own Spirit of the Law! :D
That's what I want to hear! I had actually never watched him before this month, as I hadn't played AoE2 since before he came around. But I watched some of his stuff recently and it's pretty much exactly what I had envisioned myself doing for AoE4.
@@Waddling_Duck In that case, you might also want to check out T-West. He also does similar things, albeit his content is more mixed with other kinds of content as well. For instance, look up his "How Many Projectiles Do Garrisoned Buildings Shoot?" video. He's also kinda like the programmer to SotL's math major.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn Thanks for the tip - I'll definitely take a look.
Really like your quick but in depth vids man! Thank you. SUBBED
Awesome, thank you!
@@Waddling_Duck Please keep them coming as my 6ish friends and I that are playing are taking these details to heart! Cheers!
Great video.
Doing God's work
you should also make a video with hot-keys and how to do fast things like putting farms around the mill with shift + ctrl + A etc. . How to produce armies in an efficient way, how to shuffle between hotkeys... for example, I know how to put farms around the mill, but i dont know how to put at the same time a mill and 8 farms around that in one go (like i have to wait for the mill to be done and after that i do 8 farms).
That sort of stuff is pretty high on my to-do list - I'll just be taking little more time with the game first to see if I figure out any other new tricks, and to get used to the hotkeys myself :)
Thank you!
You bet!
Caution: There is still (03.12.) a bug that the 30% bonus for French doenst work at all for gold! (As i read, it does for food/wood/stone)
Really useful info, thanks 🦆 😁
Very interesting, thank you!
Looks like you didn't take into account mongols +15% speed under outposts (also for 20seconds after leaving outpost aura range) ? @Waddling Duck
EDIT: I see you replied down below, might want to add a caption to the video to outline this.
Great video, did you happen to factor in the Yam network tech for Mongols? As for a "bug"/"feature" Mongols can half the trip by building the market close then pack up their market and send it to the other side, the distance seems to be checked at the end of route so you get full gold benefit when the trader delivers it at the end. Technically you could do this with two markets and two neutral markets, packing up back and forth before the traders arrive for the whole game.
I did not think to include the Yam network in my tests! So that'll make Mongols even more dominant with their trading. And good catch with moving the market.
Interesting, thanks.
Don't forget to check out the updated video that has correct numbers for the smaller map sizes! The equation changes based on map size. ua-cam.com/video/0T1zDpYxzCU/v-deo.html
Good vid!
Ah yes, finally :D
There is an upfront cost for traders. The breakeven threshold may be larger than the ones in the video, after accounting for this factor.
Good stuff :)
At 1:20 you said that obstacles cause the trader to take a detour but generate the exact same gold. I assume you mean the same gold per trip, not gold per time? This can actually have a very big impact on the perfect actual traderoute outside of a testing setting, more than optimal market distance.
Yes, exactly. I guess I should've been clearer on that. Gold per trip remains constant, but detours increase the time, so they can drastically impact gold per time in a negative way.
How about I build a market next to a neutral market and spam these silk road camels with 2 pouches...no gold on the map well this going to have to do instant collect turn around and load...10 gold a sec? Got to be a lil content right and 3 keeps surrounding it...no one touches em camels.....Malicious??
Interesting to see that Abbasid has the best trading in the game... now I can use this as an argument for Abbasid: The Underrated Civ.
Great video
Why does the trader look like he was animated at 3fps?
Has to do with the way that the 'follow unit' camera binding works - the camera would just jump with each step the trader took, rather than an average movement rate. If I ever take another video of a trader, I'll definitely manually move the camera to follow him!
Spirit of the Law, its that you?
Hi. I really appreciate this video and it helped me a lot. I am here requesting would you please allow me to translate this into Bilibili with Chinese so that more could watch and benefit from this. I will note that this is your original and I am only to translate. Thanks again.
How does including the Mongol Yam network change these numbers? I imagine that 15% increase to speed will add up over time.
The 15% speed boost should translate to just 15% more gold per second; at some point I'll explicitly test it to make sure there isn't any other mechanic in play that penalized movespeed boosts on traders, but based on how everything else worked I would doubt it.
I did test it, and the speed boost does not change the equation at all. It is just a flat 15% bonus to the gold received, which is significant.
and im just trying to get a basic answer of distance to gold radio, and you're taking me back to highschool. jeesus. - casual player. xD
I did make another that cuts to the chase without the math and procedure - it also provides a separate graph for each map size! ua-cam.com/video/0T1zDpYxzCU/v-deo.html
what if you build walls to force traders walk longer distances? Will that work?
Does the map size affect the gold per trip on the same distance, like it does in AoEII?
Apparently it does - I didn't think to test that since I'm not coming from AoE2. Thanks for pointing that out, working on an updated video right now!
And for anyone who missed my updates in the pinned post and description, here's the updated graphs for different map sizes: ua-cam.com/video/0T1zDpYxzCU/v-deo.html
How are the Buy Sell boxes used????
ah, this explains why i got 20 gold from my traders making a whole trip around a river, when it's not the traders distance that matters :D
Indeed
2:11 How can the Gold/Second be linear, when the Gold/Trip is exponential? I cant wrap my head around it.
If you double the distance you get *more* than double the gold. Meanwhile, if you double the distance, the duration/trip doubles exactly. So you should get more gold per second, right?
So the gold per trip is a quadratic equation, as a function of distance. Trip duration can also be expressed as a function of distance (with 1 tile/sec movespeed, trip duration is ~2x). Thus, the dividing the gold per trip by the trip duration (to get gold/sec) drops it down an order to be very close to linear. It's not technically linear as you'll have the c/2x term, but in this case c begins very small and approaches 0 as x increases, making it essentially linear.
Ah, now I get it. Thanks!
I don't understand, using a Neutral market is 20% more than a regular market, why would there ever be a point you'd use a corner ally market instead of neutral?
The biggest problem is that the neutral markets are usually nowhere near a corner - so its usually a choice of a corner ally market, or a mid-map neutral market. If you do have a neutral market that is in a corner (e.g., on the altai map, like where I did testing), you certainly would always want to use that one.
Hi, Waddling Duck. Are planning on making new videos?
You explained the efficiency of this, but didn't explained the purpose. How to set up? what is the purpose?
btw if you make the market touching the trade post every trader gets +0 gold. don't ask how i know.
A fun fact about this, is that you're actually getting a very small fraction. Eventually all those +0's add up to a +1 (although it is still a very dismal rate). Most values in the game are coded as fractions/decimals, but only display as integers.
Based off the ending of the video I believe the designers should consider having neutral markets giving more value, maybe even tied to the age you are in with later ones giving more bonus. Otherwise why fight over neutral markets in the middle of the map, as design intent seemed to be? At least in larger team games they would appear to be much worse to incredibly worse.
Yeah, neutral markets don't play a big role in team games aside from a few select maps that has them in corners. Also, make sure you check out the updated video for smaller map sizes! The general premise remains the same, but how traders stack up against villager gather rates changes based on what map size it is (each size has a different gold formula). ua-cam.com/video/0T1zDpYxzCU/v-deo.html
Does they trade Cryptos?
I thought this was going to be about the stock market. I was about to tell you terrible lol.
god. why is this video so laggy
Talking about when I had it zoomed in on the trader in auto-following the unit? I think it was just a an engine limitation - the camera would jump with every step the trader took instead of smoothly predicting its travel rate. Lesson learned I guess if I ever have the need to lock the camera to a trader again.
@@Waddling_Duck awesome vid