Christian Music Is Frustrating. Perspective of a Life Long Fan. (DFT'S Dungeon)
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- #christianmetal #metalcore #christianmetalcore
I've been a fan of Christian Metal for well over 20 years, and while I would still consider myself a strong supporter of the scene, over the years there have been certain frustrations and disappointments that have come along with it. In this video I want to boil those frustrations down into 5 main things that get on my nerves. I have tried to be as intentional as possible not to outright name names because my intention isn't to attack anyone, but just to provide an honest critique of the pitfalls of the Christian Music Industry.
Here is a link to my other video which discusses what I love about Christian Rock and Metal.
• Why I Love Christian M...
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/ dftdungeon - Розваги
Are there things that YOU find frustrating about Christian Music?
Elitism sucks.
I'm more of a general metal music fan.
I find the lack of Christian rock today depressing, though I acknowledge there are metal bands as you say. But that's not my scene. I retroactively discovered interesting alternative 90s Christian rock but all those bands are gone.. It's all worship artists that sound the same today.
@@mikenicholson7465 yeah hard rock is a pretty empty scene in Christian music these days. Either the bands end up going metal or they start putting out worship albums.
@@dft9000 there are a lot of Christian metal bands active today... Like Recon, Worldview, Disciple, Fear Not, Chaotic Resemblance, Stryper and Skillet to name a few.
One thing I always found frustrating is for every one good Christian metal band, there's at least 10 secular bands that blow them away. Plus, even though there is a variety of subgenres to choose from, the selection is very limited compared to their secular counterparts.
Here's the problem with most explicitly religious music: it lacks the subtlety and irony of mainstream art. If it didn't, it's status as religious would come into question. Christianity implies good vs evil, light vs dark, us vs them. Not much room for shades of grey.
Agreed.
I think it's because bands aren't diving deep enough into Scripture and seeing how even though God is light, we live in the gray and there is SO much room for cool music but bands aren't getting deep enough. That's my take anyway
@@thefinalwitness130 Which is why most of those bands come off like they were raised home schooled and generally out of touch
We need to get rid of the entire "Christian" label ..
JS Bach's music was not -- "Christian" per say, even though JS Bach was a life-long committed, church-going Lutheran ..
His music was both sacred and secular ..
Today, both Christian and non-Christians perform his music ..
So how about the term .................. sacred metal?
Then again, a song could be "secular" (not sacred); but still contains elements of the aspect of a Christian/sacred/holy life, but not meant to be sung in divine worship ..
A song could be theological ....................... but also not necessarily for sacred worship ..
A song does not have to be always about the gospel ..
It could be about the ten commandments and living a godly life ..
Ya know, even something Richard Dawkins, the Christian Atheist might appreciate ..
I agree with the sentiment, unfortunately even if we put a different word on it, I doubt it would change people's behavior
As a metal head, I don't think metal, or even modern forms of music can be sacred. Gregorian Chant is Sacred. I wouldn't even call mist hymns sacred tbh. They're just religious music.
Excellent take man. That last part about the elitists is why I just don't even listen to the preachy Christian bands anymore. The way the convey the message is often beyond corny and the fans, omg the fans.
You said everything I wish I was eloquent enough to say half the time. Kudos.
Yeah I still like some of the mega evangelical bands, but I avoid their social media posts, my eyes can only roll so hard.
It's funny, because I was pointed to your channel today by a social media Christian metal group. 😂
I like the content, and I also have seen and struggled with a lot of what you bring up in the video.
It's hard because everyone is struggling with their own walk with Christ. We don't get the support we are supposed to from the Christian community, so we go to other sources for it.
I personally first went to music. I was a kid going into book stores the same as you. Thankfully, I never found a 'comparison' list. Most stores let you try before you buy, so I wasn't disappointed often.
These bands I would find would do the very things you mentioned over time. I found myself getting upset with them. It took me years to realize it was my expectations that were the problem, not them.
Very few actually 'fell away'. Most bands just split up or softened their stances. So I basically decided to let these bands do what they want without criticism, unless it was something flagrant. I would ask questions, instead of accuse, and come to them in Christian love... I felt bad for all the people I offended with my harshness before. So I try to make amends for that now.
Thanks for the video!
You know its funny about the facebook group because I have actively been trying to avoid using facebook to promote my stuff, and since I stopped doing that, people have started to share it. Crazy world. But yeah Im totally in the same boat as you, I used to feel hurt and abandoned by my favorite artists until I took a step back and realized it was my unrealistic expectations that were hurting me, not a bunch of guys in a band who I have never met. At the end of the day we only have control of what we do.
This is the same thing that happened to me! Haha
@@JasonPSchaferits funny cuz I stopped posting my episodes on Facebook about a month ago, and it seems like people have been sharing them on their own. That makes my life way easier ha ha ha.
Those comparison lists were pretty annoying. If you listen to Cannibal Corpse, listen to Crimson Thorn. If you listen to Slayer, listen to Living Sacrifice etc.
Your video touches on a lot of thoughts I've had for years. I'm finally giving music a shot and doing my best to make Christian music that is actually artistic expression and not a cynical "we're the Christian version of ____". Earned a sub
Thank you! I think alot of bands in the Christian music space are absolutely just making music from their hearts and expressing themselves. Unfortunately what happens is the marketing of said music is done in such a way that it makes people view the music as inauthentic which is wrong. (more in the past than now I really do think people are coming around on this)
Good story. Didn't know about your channel, but enjoyed your conversation. And yes, I totally agree on the 'Christian Metal Elitism'. Being from Europe, where the scene is different, the elitism kinda seems mostly an American thing, but 'we' don't go free either. Good luck on your channel.
I grew up Evangelical in the Midwest in the 2000's (California in the mid to late nineties) I still listen to a ton of the old music I used to love but I am 12 years out from being completely detached from 'mainstream' Christianity. When the subject comes up I get annoyed fairly quickly with most people because of how the typical conversation goes. Most of the complaints here about Christian music, in my opinion, apply to Christianity at large. My views are mine and I don't share them with people anymore. I came across this video completely by accident but I'm glad I did. You've got a new subscriber.
Never believed in God, never will, and yet I appreciate your well articulated points and your tone/delivery. I kept watching this video just to hear your opinion on something I couldn't care less about. How did I get here? I don't know but this was nicely done.
Thank you so much!
Well as a fan of Christian music for almost 25 years, these artists are still people. They are human. These people that are elitists should look in the mirror and see if they are doing all that is in the Bible. I would love to have a discussion about this with anyone how "Christian music" has evolved in the last 25 years
It's worth noting that many bands also formed when they were kids who grew up in Christian environments and eventually lost their faith even though the band stayed together or original members quit and are replaced with non-Christians. Zao and underoath come to mind but there are many others.
Yeah I think this is the case more often than not. And I know thats why alot of people dont outwardly state it either cuz its pretty personal.
As a Christian who is a metalhead and in a band myself, I really enjoyed this video as well as your last one, I definitely agree with the things you said here! Keep it up!
Thank you so much!
I had a friend like this in high school. He brought some live POD album for me to listen to way before Fundamental elements of southtown came out. I bought that album because of being introduced though. I remember listening to stavesacre in the day. Only "Christian" Metal band i really listen to any more is Demon Hunter. Mostly due to a lot of reason you covered. There was a lot thought out the years i didnt know were Christian .
What a great breakdown of a lot of things going on within the scene right now.
Thank you for featuring our track as an example. ❤
Thank you. Song slams btw.
as someone who suffered through the tail end of the catholic "felt banners and folk songs" era I just can't with about 95% of modern christian music. gospel, both black and hillbilly, is about as contempory as I can get with my christian music. everything else is just insufferable slop. All the worst parts of both christianity and popular music.
i need to find th niche of christians that like gregorian chant but also think women are people.
So... Catholics who aren't radtrads?
It's crazy you mention the Hail Mary song. Because I too was confused by it at first. But I just went to my first Christian Metal concert last night with Convictions and Confessions of a Traitor, and realized why I got into this scene in the first place. The people, they're genuine. It's the internet, and marketing, and snobbiness of people that makes everyone and everything look bad.
Before they sang the song, they spoke about it that it was never about being anti Christian or anti church, that it was just about acknowledging the abuse that people have experienced in the church.
Now I don't know if they mean specifically the Catholic Church, as even a protestant myself I know they aren't the only ones responsible to this issue.
But like, their merch for the Hail Mary shirt is slightly confusing as well.
This is why I partially suspect they are trying to still be respectful, and perhaps are saying some more along the lines of acknowledging the pain and guilt with some of their harsher lyrics. They're pretty brutally honest.
Sleeping Giants lead singer is very similar with how he shows two sides as well. He loves the Orthodox tradition in his new band HolyName, but a lot of his songs in Sleeping Giant really talked about love over dogma, liturgy and doctrine.
So I think sometimes it's because the nuance of lyrics can really be lost on people who don't listen to more than the "title" of a song like people reading news and only reading the headlines.
Cool that they talked about it before playing it. Yeah I threw out the "allegedly" when I talked about it because I have read what they said about it, that it was about abuse, but of course that didnt stop people from getting mad about it anyway. The live setting is the best place to experience Christian Metal because people are just generally nicer and more genuine in person than online.
RadioU was a big player for me back in the day discovering bands. I love Christian music and secular music. I agree with you comparing them to the secular counterpart; it's just something you shouldn't have to do.
Also I'm pumped for new Demon Hunter 🖤
100% agree. i often used those riyl guides, which were...well, you know. reviews did this too. i read a review of asight unseen in heaven's metal and rushed out to buy it because it "sounded like nirvana"
Ha ha I remember reading reviews saying an album was stellar only for it to sound like a garage recording
*turns on Trashcanhands (Keyboard Cowards)*
Kind of tangentially related, but I'm a Christian (and a Catholic one at that, God forbid lol) and it seems that a lot of my favorite bands/musicians (Zao, Underoath, twothirtyeight/Chris Staples, Pedro the Lion, et al) are those who have always asked the tough questions and been spiritually vulnerable in their music, but eventually found themselves no longer professing Christianity. Maybe it's just the way I'm wired, but I relish being challenged as a Christian as well as seeing how a particular artist's life experiences have influenced how they see the world (which is why I don't blame COAT's lyricist if he's suffered that kind of trauma - predators ARE in many positions of power, but get them the fuck out of my Church and stop moving them around)
And you also have artists like Jon Foreman/Switchfoot and Five Iron Frenzy, two more of my favorites, who continue to be honest and challenging while doing nothing to distance themselves from Christianity
Love this channel! Keep doing what you do
yeah I definitely wanted to hit the issues from all sides. its not just all the industry's fault, and its not all the band's fault, and its not all the fan's fault. Its a weird combination of all 3 that all perpetuate each other.
In the case of zao they were a more baptist band at their start, then they endured half a million lineup changes, there's no original members left in the band, so if they aren't Christian anymore understand it's not the same guys that started the band now
Thumb’s up, watching this took me back to the 90’s and early 2000’s.
Just wondering, were you familiar with ordering companies like Rad Rockers or Blastbeats?
Oh yeah. I used to order from Blastbeats all the time. That was where I got alot of the more extreme stuff.
I'll be honest here and here me out. The Christian Music world as I would agree from the mid 1990s in some ways wasn't as marketable and I'm sure you know Poor Old Lu, Michael Knott, Starflyer 59 and others were bands that weren't marketed well and they sold what they could. However, by the mid 90s in large there were larger sales for very specific groups and those that were lesser known remained as such. I would also know the close knit friendships and projects that members of The Choir, Daniel Amos, Adam Again and The 77s were involved with together through the 1980s through the 2000s when some individuals like Gene Eugene passing in 2000. Even if some of their own or project records weren't the best or the personal circumstances that lead to their best works was good but I don't think people really have a good way of scaling success except for certain artists selling to their fanbase but the numbers aren't really available for the lesser selling artists.
I find it frustrating that Christians will see a name like Megadeth or Iron Maiden and think satanic but in reality there are a lot of songs from these bands and others that have Christian themes and messages, in addition to many of the band members being openly Christian.
It is that performative nature that really makes it hard for me to give a damn about Christian Brand, Christian Music.
yeah the fact that the term "christian" turned into a marketing term at some point really cheapened it for alot of people.
Im in my mid 40s so ive seen/heard all the good,bad. And ugly throughout the years. This is definitely a topic that needs more nuance and feel like you could easily pull a part 2 out of this. I thought this was just going to be s rant but you actually got pretty detailed in the denominations and their agendas. Youve done your homework. I often side with the Christians who just want to hear "preachcore" because we all have our bias. You also mentioned bands who admitted that were never Christian in the first place. I cant blame them because ive heard its easier to hop onto a christian label because it seems like they will take anyone. Some of my most favorite bands over the years turned out to be gnostic like Fallstar for example. I still listen to them though.
Spot on. I’m in a couple groups on facebook, with the sole purpose of discovering new music. All anyone can talk about is which band ‘said a swear’ and who is actually christian. So frustrating, bands are made up of people with their own faith, why do the fans have to have any say in what that faith is?
Yeah it's truly baffling.
Dude, you nailed it 100%! People can be so ridiculous about branding and everything you mentioned. Definitely subscribed to this page.
Thank you so much! Im definitely trying to keep it respectful but sometimes that frustration shows through.
I grew up in the church and various times through out my 20s have been involved in my 20s have had theses kinds of interactions.
Me: I like ( Insert band name here)
Other Person: Are they Christian?
Me: why does that matter if the music is good then they are good
Other Person: You see your music needs to have a pure message.
Me: Look I simply don't care too much because there would be know Christian Music without Secular Bands to rip Off.
Other Person: But the christian bands serving the lord and there are good people who believe in the bible and so do these artists.
Me: Nope CCM and Christian Metal, Rock and Hip hop are all corporations that take part in the same garbage tactics and underhanded corperate secular labels do
And the cycle continues.
I cannot stand CCM and the whole Praise and Worship music industrial complex
I don't agree with Catholicism but Phinehas is pretty dope. My Rosary and Know Death Know Forever are songs you can put on repeat for hours...and that guitar solo in Eternally Apart got me wanting to convert lol
I also agree with your closing statement that the FB groups can be really toxic. I can't count how many times the Christian Metalcore group I'm in I thought was edifying will have someone trying to crucify a random band like Pod for the 30th time and it's ridiculous.
Or having a stroke about Sleep Token.
I know exactly which post your are talking about with Sleep Token. Im generally still in those groups for the comedy.
@@dft9000 oh no. I don't imagine you saw the rant on there about Bring me The Horizon did you because of their tour name? That one was nuts too. It's really a shame the purity culture that's even in Christian Metal, I thought the whole point was to loosen up personally but I guess I was wrong haha but I'm a newbie.
But then again, I started in the "secular sector" then went to my tiptoed a bit with the band War of Ages when one day I googled thinking "it would be cool if a Christian Metalcore band existed" before jumping back into it again recently for real now.
I've only been listening to Christian Metal id say for a full year like consistently because of that, actually actively following bands and what not.
@@JasonPSchaferits funny cuz for awhile there it felt like most of the metalcore bands that were out there were Christian or at least started out that way, that was like 2004-2012
lol listen man it sounds like we grew up veeeeeery similar, and you have me alot of throwbacks and deep cuts I totally forgot about, and though I have very intense views in the flaws or religion in general, well say to remain civilian lol, but anyway, I really dig your channel and as far as this stuff goes your the dude i would much much much much rather have like, being a bigger voice for a scene. You obviously understand what’s going on and are very realistic, a lot of Christian’s can’t manage that so I respect it. Also dude remember fucking mortification! When I was 10, for about 9 days, they gave deicide a run for their money lol. Seriously good stuff man, you’re the type of Christian I’m glad to know. Take it easy boss, you got a sub out of respect for not being cringey and stupid about this stuff.
Also I see you with that lil super shotgun insert from doom, let me find out you play doom as well lol
Doom is my all time favorite game of all time. OG MS Dos Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom. The new ones are cool too
@@dft9000 that’s what I’m talking about.
Oh, the good old days. Our church youth groups would have these discussions lol I look back now and just laugh about how serious and passionate we were about this topic. I with you though, I love the bands and the music, but stay away from the toxic communities.
oh man I remember leading an entire youth group with a discussion about how Christian music is the only music that can enrich our lives. The example I used..........As I Lay Dying.......
@@dft9000 🤣
Digging the new do, my friend.
its the same do really lol. My hair was totally jacked up and fro'd out, so I jumped in the shower so the hair would get wet and lay down, and then I just filmed before it poofed out again ha ha ha.
Excellently presented points! Great video, man!
Thank you!
very insightful video. i completely agree
You nailed it, man. "You literally cannot win with these people." #Gatekeeping
Yeah. Kind of depressing isn't it?
Excellent observations !
In America, you are free to practice either no religion at all or any of the 400+ religions that exist today. I feel i can be pretty objective on this since i view all 400+ religions to be nonsense equally. If a band writes amazing songs, i could care less what they believe in as long as their beliefs arent justfiying antiquated biblical bigotry which none of my favorite Christian bands do. August burns red, amazing whether theyre christian or not. Anberlin, amazing whether theyre christian or not. As long as its not being forcefully shoved down your throat and the music is good, who cares? Satanism is nonsense too but some good music has come out of it too.
My problem with christian music is that it often feels like a trojan horse. That a lot of the music has legs to stand on without needing a religious affiliation, which makes it come off as tricking you into hearing about Jesus when you never asked or wanted to hear it.
Yeah you're not wrong.
Okay, first of all, looking up Vaakevandring, so I can listen to it while I read the comments.
It's still one of my favorite little EPs
Dude...point 3 is so prescient for me as I just wrapped up filming an Underoath video haha. And the gaslighting point is so important. Lots to consider here.
I think clear concise communication is always the way to go in those kinds of situations. Its OK to go your own way, its not ok to treat people like they are stupid.
@@dft9000 Totally. I think I touched on it in my video for American Arson (who had an EP calling out a lot of the Christian music industry), but I don't think I mentioned it in Underoath. Basically, I understand the pressure on these bands to keep silent in the face of changing beliefs as well. Again, not saying it's right, but I can see how that happens.
@@MetalSharpensMetalyeah I think its really hard to make a good judgment call when you are under pressure. Especially with a band that makes their living doing what they do. Its got to be nearly impossible to weigh the risk against fan expectation and all of that.
Also American Arson is awesome!
I'll be completely honest: I would MUCH rather listen to the "Pain Remains" by Lorna Shore than one more Death metal/core song about hell. I'm still wondering why there is no Amon Amarthesqe band singing about the Crusades or King Davids reign. The macabees revolt anyone? Untapped gold. It says alot that most peoples favorite Christian themed songs are from Sabaton or worse... powerwolf.
The hell stuff gets really old for sure
Excellent summary of the faith based heavy music industry. Having spent a lot of time with bands behind the scenes and in their personal space, I think it is safe to say that not everyone is in the same place spiritually, emotionally, or doctrinally. We are all on a life journey and expecting every member of every "Christian" band believe exactly as you do is unrealistic and hey, you might be the heretic. JK. If the music evokes worship, gets you in a better spiritual place, even just feel emotion that is meaningful for you, then just embrace it as a gift from God.
I’m not even Christian. Son of the Morning and Children of Fire by Oh, Sleeper are the best metalcore albums ever written. Still unpacking them with every listen.
Son of the Morning is incredible, A Banquet for Traitors is my jam.
@@dft9000Their lyricism and story telling abilities are top tier.
The secular gatekeeping can get obnoxious but the sincere people in extreme music who "gatekeep" are not doing it to be rude, they are trying to preserve the subgenre. It's all about ther integrity of the music in the particular sub-genre. Yes some are jerks about it, but as someone who has been into Deathmetal since it's inception in the 80's.... I can honestly say that gatekeeping (without the rude attitude) can be necessary. There has been so many times when someone calls any metal genre (deathcore for example) deathmetal, that should be politely corrected. If not, the definition of deathmetal will get so polluted/watered-down to the point that it will eventually mean nothing.
Yeah I mean informing somebody who is eating an apple that it's not an orange is fine. Imparting knowledge is great. Making someone feel like they are less than because of their music tastes is not.
Yeah there is no need to belittle anyone.
❤❤❤
If anyone compared Living Sacrifice to Megadeth to you they're super off haha. Maybe compare them to Fear Factory or Meshuggah.
(At least any album 1997 and beyond)
Their self titled album reminds me of Slayer a bit but yeah the year I read that comparison Megadeth was way off base.
Great breakdown!
Excellent video ❤❤❤
Thank you.
Living sacrifice s first album sounds like slayer n they have another album that sounds like chaos ad era sepultura
This is why you should just listen to Creed.
One of the reasons, I was pushed away from Christianity because no one supported the music I enjoy. If it wasn't at the Bookstore, then it was of "the devil".
Yeah there were some stores that wouldn't even touch the heavier side of things
#metoo bro
Circa 2010 to 2012 I self produced twenty doom rock albums wherein the lyrics were bible passages set to music. I did the entire bible. I sent my work to all the Christian heavy metal labels and they replaied they weren't interested in promoting my material. I was like WTF its literally the bible set to heavy metal music? How could they not be interested in promoting that type of material. The truth is no Christian metal bands use bible passages for lyrics. Ask yourself why not?
You forgot to include "Why is the artwork so demonic?" and "I can't even understand what they're saying!"
Ha ha ha
A hill to die Apon is a amazing Christian Black Metal band!!! not white metal Blackened death style...
I listen to Slayer and pornogrind exclusively
Kudos.
Almost all the Christian bands are no longer Christian because it was the Christian community that showed them it was all a grift and the Christian industry was gross. Almost every band has said this from Underoath to ABR.
a grift is a very good way to describe it for sure.
I've thought about this for a long time. And I think the issue is way simpler than everyone makes it.
I'm a musician, and I've delved into song writing by the bands I love to learn how it's done.
Most really great, catchy, memorable music is written like this: the music comes first and then the lyrics - you come up with an awesome riff or chord progression, or a snippet of a killer vocal melody and then you build a song around that...And 99% of the lyrics at that stage are "nana na na na na yeaaah urrgh" - whatever random sounds fit well with the music. Later, the band's lyricists will fill in the blanks with something semi-coherent. Go listen to early demos of classic metal songs, and you see some basic vocal ideas are there, but the lyrics normally aren't.
Now we come to Christian music, where every song has to have a coherent theology or is based on a Bible verse or is praising God in a specific way or is discussing the apocalypse or whatever - well, you usually have to start with the lyrics first and then put them to music. And if you're a competent musician you can make a cool backing track to your poem about God, but it will seldom have that stickiness or memorable hook or killer riff.
We can take a vocal based genre and reverse that idea - if you give Eminem a beat he can freestyle over it, but his best songs are going to be based on a vocal rhythm - rhyming bars and so on, then a great producer like Dre comes along and works on the beat and the hook. So in that case the lyrics come first and flow in a particular way and that dictates what the music will be.
That's why I think Christian music is more suited to genres where the lyrics are the most important part of the song - rap, folk, blues and so on. Maybe even reggae!
The only exception to this in terms of rock music could be progressive rock and metal, because the music can be fitted around the lyrics a lot easier. So if I were going to start a Christian metal band it would be along the lines of Dream Theater or Opeth or Savatage.
I think this might be true for some bands but I don't really think there are many bands out there who start with the lyrics first. I never did anyway.
@@dft9000 Ok, from what I've seen of your lyrics, (admittedly not a lot) they don't seem overtly Christian, in that if I didn't know any better I could easily assume you were a secular band.
Which brings me to another question that perhaps you can answer - what makes a band "Christian"? Because it seems to me that most of modern Christian rock and metal has some vaguely spiritual lyrics and song titles, avoids praising sex, drugs and satan, and a couple of the band members go to Church.
It's not like the bands of old, your Mortification and Stryper and so on, who are basing songs on specific Bible passages and singing about Jesus every second verse. I mean, even late era W.A.S.P is more blatantly theological than most Christian bands these days.
Is Megadeth Christian because Dave Mustaine believes in God? Or Iron Maiden because Nicko McBrain goes to Church? Is Killswitch Engage Christian because their singer is, and he writes the lyrics? How many members have to be Christian for it to be a Christian band? Or doesn't that matter at all?
And then there were all those bands that pretended to be Christian to gain a wider audience - As I Lay Dying, Creed and so on.
And then the Skillets and Embodyment and POD and a million others - they're just alt-rock bands. What's "Christian" about them really?
If (for the sake of argument) we're defining all the bands typically lumped into that genre as "Christian", how come they can't write a masterpiece album? There are plenty of good Christian rock/metal groups, but not a single one that I can think of that is as good as or better than the best secular bands.
It has to be something to do with the approach to song-writing, otherwise what could it possibly be?
Well the question of "what makes a Christian band a Christian band?" is the main heart of this video really. Because we only have a giant blanket term of Christian music, and everyone has a different idea of what that actually means.
Personally I disagree with the idea that no Christian band is better than the "best" of secular bands. There are Christian bands like Extol, Aletheian, and Embodyment(The Death Metal Embodyment lol) that I would put toe to toe with any secular band out there. I think the real devil is in the comparisons. That false expectation that a comparison creates leads us to feeling like bands that we check out never live up to those expectations and we sometimes forget that music isn't a competition of "who is better than who". Sure its easy to pick on Christian bands because they are a smaller market than the secular market, but the ratio of good and bad bands is the same if both music scenes were the same size. So it appears as if there are more bad bands in the Christian scene than good, but in my experience on both sides of it, the ratio is basically the same.
Something I used to always say on Discography Discussion was that a very small percent of bands in any genre are amazing and innovative, and the rest of the bands are just trying to sound like that small percentage.
most CCM music has been offensively bland. Some stand out artists but let's be real, most aint great.
Christian music as a scene was kinda cultish, the actual business.
Zao fans have always been cringe
I'm a huge Zao fan but yeah I get what you mean 1000%
The problem is that it all sucks. There’s no “edge” like in non-Christian music. 🤷🏻♂️. It just all sounds cheesy.
You make a lot of "most people..." statements that I personally don't think actually apply to most people.
I personally listen to (and play!) Christian hard rock and metal because it pumps me up in my walk with God, encourages me through struggles in life, and gives me an outlet to really worship God with feeling and sincerity. I can relate to the intense testimonies and stories told in a lot of the songs as well.
It's only somewhat lately that "Christian metal" bands started trying to blend in with the world.... didn't used to be that way when those bands first came out.
"Most People" in my experience over the last 25 years, your mileage may vary. For instance radio stations in my town use to regularly bash on Christian rock and metal. But I can appreciate that you get a lot out of the music and testimonies. I get a lot out of it too. Those are the GOOD parts of the whole experience.
I think Christian rock guilts you into liking it. You tell yourself you like it because you think its going to please Jesus, but you dont really like it because its lame. Dont worry. Jesus doesnt like it either.
I think for some bands that's the case. But there's some pretty incredible bands out there that fall under that banner that would be incredible no matter what the lyrics were.
The problem with Christian Music (among other poilitical/religious music) is that the music is an afterthought, the agenda is foremost.