How we deconstructed Mormonism
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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Thanks for putting this video together!
This very much feels like "maybe the true deconversion was the friends we made along the way"
This is a shockingly accurate statement. I have a list.
•Childhood friends raised in other beliefs.
•Multiple queer friends in middle school.
•An ex that pointed out I had all these strong convictions without the facts to support them.
•My cousin.
•My friend’s mom who is a exmo, mystic, and a spiritualist.
•Friends in high school that never believed.
It’s almost like being exposed to others experiences completely dismantles a cultish world view.
Shout out to Dav if you're watching this
Implied at all times 😜
we're here for you, Dav!
@@ZelphOntheShelf Dav's fine. Pretty sure this one is actually for Bethany. ;)
Hi Dav 👋🏽
DAV! 🥳💜
1:25:30 when Tanner talks about the thick, tight rope in his gut finally loosening and being able to relax for the first time ever, I think that’s the closest someone’s ever gotten to describing my deconversion experience. There is nothing like the feeling of freedom and peace of being truly alone after spending your entire life never allowed privacy or boundaries, forced into dissociation, betraying your body and personality, being surveilled to the point you compulsively survey yourself. I will never forget the sudden realization that I was safe, that I had choices, that I was real. I had never felt more human or more alive.
🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍✨
Dammit, this comment made me cry. Wonderful accurate description.
Every Zelph video heals another piece of my heart that was broken by high-demand religion. ❤
😭💜💜💜
I remember my first crack in my testimony of mormonisim very clearly. I was horribly injured in my mission because a house collapsed on top of me. I was hospitalized for 6 weeks before I was sent home because I was in such critical condition. I had to relearn how to walk and went through years of physical therapy and surgeries (I have another one this year). Less than 3 months after I arrived home, the church withdrew all financial support for my medical treatments. I was devastated. And despite this, it took me 10 more years to finally admit to myself that what they did was wrong. The conviction you both speak about while in the church resonates with me so much; I was literally numb in my legs and have pain in my bones daily, and I STILL had put the church's response to my injuries on the shelf.
I hope your surgery went well, and yes being taken care of when you're injured is the most basic of human rights. You deserve it and anyone or anything that comes between you and your right to healthcare needs to fuck off. I hope you no longer feel guilty for getting the help you deserve.
For both of you, inspired by Tanner's description of the "knot" in his stomach finally loosening:
Unmoored
The knot loosens, the rope slips -
The boat floats away from the dock, and remembers what it is for:
It is for the wind, the salt spray, the sunlight on the water.
It is for the storms and the choppy surf -
It is for the doldrums, where the wind is still and the sea turns to glass.
It is for the journey, destination unknown.
It is for the strangers It has yet to meet,
For pods of dolphins and curious seagulls.
It is for the sunset, setting the sky ablaze.
It is for the depths, perilous and alluring, below.
"The world is deep, deeper still than the day can reach,
Deep is its woe;
But Joy, too - deeper still.
Woe implores: Go!
But all joy wants eternity-
Wants deep, wants deep eternity."
So loosen the knot.
Slip away from the dock.
Unfurl the sail.
And dare to cross the face of the deep.
(Quoted lines are from Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra.")
Wow, thank you so much for sharing!! 💖💖💖
@@ZelphOntheShelf thank You both for sharing your deconstruction journey! Curiosity really is the root of love ❤️
This is so beautiful 💖
So incredibly accurate his description!
This gave me chills, absolutely beautiful
The episode in which I learn that Sam and I have VERY similar stories. I got married 2 weeks before I turned 19 but my high control group was the military. There's a culture of marrying young and immediately spitting out kids (I did not, thankfully) in the military. My ex was a military kid that also went into the military and I was a vulnerable survivor of an abusive childhood, so we were both very susceptible to the pressures we were feeling from his command and the FRG (family readiness group). We split by the time we were 24.
My last time attending church was because of a "why people leave" talk too! It was the bishop at the very end of sacrament meeting, on the heels of an honestly lovely talk by a newer member of the ward (who also complimented my pronoun pin). I was in an aisle seat towards the front so I couldn't leave, but I was so angry I was *shaking* by the time he was done talking, and I had a panic attack outside the meetinghouse afterwards. It was a good thing I was about to move in with several never-mo friends lol, that definitely helped create a clean break (and I also got lucky w/ my ward being generally respectful of boundaries)
Tanner's very old video on why he left Mormonism is one I return to every once and awhile because you can tell how strongly he felt, and his story is so interesting.
I love that video. You can tell he was SO sincerely seeking. He WANTED the church to be true.
Link?
I’m obsessed with the cat chilling on the counter towards the end ❤❤❤❤
Would love to hear more about Tanners discovery of his queer identity in relationship with his deconstruction! Love you guys big big ❤
I think you got derailed when you were going to explain where your channel name comes from.
I love you guys so much! I was mesmerized listening to Tanner express his thoughts. Also, that point about curiosity being a precursor to love BLEW MY MIND! It’s so true! You two are brilliant!
you’re right. oopsie! 🙈😅
Later in the vid when Tanner is talking about finally feeling able to relax, it really resonated with me. I'm ex-evangelical-charismatic, I was born into it, and come from a long line of pastors and preachers. The most difficult thing for me is my parents now know I don't believe anymore, but they don't understand. They think I'm jaded (I mean maybe a LITTLE lmfao) but they don't understand that I made the decision from a place of security, not bitterness. For me too, I got diagnosed with OCD after leaving the church, and I realized how the existential anxiety of the church was making my mental illness MUCH worse and feeding and strengthening compulsions. I have had multiple crises and am lucky to be here today. I'm actually THRIVING. Deconverting made me healthier and freer in literally every way, and I wish my parents could understand. I literally feel like I lost a weight that was on my chest and shoulders. It feels like someone unknotted that tight heavy rope like Tanner was talking about, and I literally phyically feel the difference. My parents are relieved that I'm happy and not in a mental health crisis in the hospital again, but at the same time my freedom and happiness causes them pain and will always cause them pain bc I will never reconvert. I dont know how to balance the grief with the happiness all the time, but I wish more people could experience it and understand. Bc how on earth could I willingly decide to go back to a way of life that literally nearly cost me my own multiple times?? This whole vid really spoke to me and "ministered to my spirit" lol ty both for sharing your experiences and being so open and real about it. It helps so much.
💜💜💜💜💜💜💜 thank you for sharing!
I have been an "investigator" off and on for years and videos like yours always answer more questions intelligently than missionaries or members ever do.b
That description of the thick knotted rope loosening in your gut for the first time ever is SO on-point, I definitely felt this too. Thanks for the video!
Good conversations all around, good Banksy content as well. Thanks to whoever got me a channel membership!
Looking forward to this. You're one of my favorite exmo channels that has helped me deconstruct. Thank you for the work you do! Love your humor! I love it when Tanner does his impression of Oaks!
Ahh yay! 💜 Tanner’s impressions are sickeningly good hahaha
My testimony was hanging by a thread and was on life support…then after my mission I went to uni and evolution was explained clearly to me in a good faith way.
My testimony breathed its last breath and that was the peak of my faith crisis where I was distraught but could finally put together a world view based on reality.
About the same time I started watching your guys videos. They meant a lot in that time of my life.
I adore you both so much!! Tanner’s deconstruction experience lines up with mine in so many ways and you both express how it felt so well. I spent years feeling like something was off and struggled so much to try and make it make sense. When I first left the church your videos gave me so much comfort when I felt so extremely alone. I loved this video and am so here for your HD era 🫶
So much good stuff! Would love to here even more on some if these topics: discovering your queer identitiy, how you created your own community after leaving the church, or handling divorce at such a young age. Only suggestions, don't ever feel pressured to share more than what you are comfortable with!
Oh Tanner the way you spoke on spirituality at the end was so beautiful, and completely confirms to me the reason why I have gravitated to your guys channel despite not being exmo (I'm ex-Catholic). Your spirituality shines out from you and is magnetic. I recently decided that I was ready to pursue reconstruction 10 years after leaving my religion and I would love further recommendations on how you have reconstructed a spirituality that feels authentic to you. The way you both speak on these topics is so moving, thank you.
💜💜💜💜💜!
As someone raised Catholic, hearing about Mormonism and Evangelicalism through y'all is very eye-opening to understanding other Christians. For me, religion has never been a major huge influence in my life. We'd go to to mass on Sundays and have religion class at school but it never was something that affected, like, the things I was doing on a day-to-day basis. We were taught that much of the Old Testament was just stories meant to teach, not real events, and converting others or pressuring your community to act a certain way was just never really a thing. I never really understood why non-Catholics were so vehement about Christianity and the Bible and whatnot. I've watched a handful of your videos over the past few days and I get it now. These versions of Christianity impact and invade every aspect of your life. Everything you do HAS to be about God/the Bible/the church. That's gotta be such a fear-inducing way to live. I have lots of issues with Catholicism but thinking on it now, I couldn't be more thankful that I was raised Catholic and not Evangelical or Mormon.
Are you by any chance German?
I had a very similar experience with Catholicism. I feel like I got off easy with just the classic catholic guilt issues lol
I also had a similar experience with Catholicism.
That is pretty much what I was taught as a Catholic. I was also brought up with more social justice, part of Catholicism, opposed to the prolife, hmm anti choice message.
The modern type of Catholicism where you don't give the church too much control of your body, mind or money can honestly be a fairly healthy religion in my experience.
I'm a person from a country where Catholicism has mostly been done VERY badly up until very recently and I have scars from both hard-line Catholic thinking and (tbh even more so) some evangelical born again shite I was exposed to when young. I still can't deny still having a strong affection mild Catholicism done well though.
I'm absolutely fine with lighting candles, saying occasional repetitive prayers, donations to the holy land, respecting the presence of the eucharist etc. without too much theological crap, high camp flamboyant super-rich hierarchies, subordination of women or repression of healthy sexuality.
Sam I LOVE that you acknowledge that you are a good explainer because you are! The way you explain things like cognitive dissonance and the psychology behind cult belief has helped me SO MUCH on my deconstruction journey. Like so much. It really gave me a lot of compassion for myself and others. Instead of being like “how could I be so stupid and gullible to believe this” you helped me see we are hard wired for conditioning that cults create. So thank you. From the bottom of my heart. For using your “time and talents 😉 to help those of us who don’t understand how we got into this mess.
Ahhh thank you!!! Patriarchal blessing coming true haha 😜
I went to BYU-I and when I began deconstructing, I’ve refused to think about my years there because it always felt like too much to reckon with. Hearing your perspective and experiences living there, both of you, allowed me to begin to understand why it’s so painful to think about that time that was outwardly such a “happy” period of my life. I’d love a more in-depth video about your experiences and what’s going on in Rexburg. Because the little things you brought up in this video already sent my brain spiraling with realizations.
You two are so radiant and intelligent and warm and magnetic, so excited to start this video and learn more about your stories ✨💫 - I know it’s probably overwhelming with all the new attention (hopefully in a good way but the internet can be funky like that). I’ve never been religious and know very little about Mormonism outside of what I learned reading Under the Banner of Heaven lol, so this is so educational and interesting for me. So much love and empathy for where youve been, what you’ve accomplished, and where you’ll go! 🫶
💜💜💜💜 thank you so much!!
Listening to these type of testimonies is one of the reasons I want to be a therapist that helps patients with religious traumas. Thank you guys so much for being brave enough to share your stories, they are so inspiring. ❤️Also, have you guys ever reacted to the play The Book of Mormon? It was written by the creators of South Park and is hilarious
Deconstruction videos are so interesting to me. I really relate to Samantha in that I stopped believing (I was a fundamentalist/baptist) and it then took me a full six months to actually say out loud (to a guy I was casually dating at the time) that I was no longer a Christian. It took me another six months to untangle myself from church, and another three years to tell my parents. It’s a journey!
I also would say, it’s so hard to know what you’re actually believing vs what you know logically vs what you want to believe… they all become very tangled up. What I wanted to believe stayed christian waay longer than the other two.
Amazing video and enjoying getting to know you guys parasocially! Zelph on the shelf is my Dav (obviously Dav is also my Dav, as is the law).
You guys are lucky you had each other. As a lone Aussie who went through school defiantly Mormon and to this day who’s closest freinds and family (except nevermo wife and kids) are devout Mormon I’ve felt so alone many times throughout life since lack of faith.
Couldn’t be at the premiere but here I am - you guys are killing it atm!!!!
I have avoided your podcast as I am 72 and not much into giggles and goofiness, but I was in the store and put this podcast on. I fell in love with you both and your path. The only way I did it was go away to other states so I knew I did not belief in that God but 2 years ago I found podcasts and listened to Robert Ritners evaluation of the Book of Abraham I opened my book and saw it was published in 2017 and the papyrus was there….. what ? They lie!!!!!
Then I heard the SEC debacle and so for two years just ate it all up. I am glad I gave it up at 26 left my marriage and lived my life. But I felt guilty till I saw the lie. The guilt dropped immediately.
Congratulations young people.
I went through a similar intellectual/emotional journey out of my Christian sect. It was a slow process but I finally gave in to my atheism after an in depth bible and history study into the origin of the Christian concept of hell. When I closed my Bible, took a deep breath and said it out loud, “None of this is real. I’m not going to hell.” What a relief!
So beautiful to hear about how you've come full circle, to pass through the nihilism and bitterness, and open yourself up again to the transcendent beauty that is all around us and within us. Thank you for sharing these wise words. This was my first Zelph video and I'm really excited to hear more.
Don’t be terrified of the new eyeballs!! 🥺You’re both so awesome (and also gorgeous) and I’m so enjoying binging your content!! Absolutely hilarious and also has been helping me work through deeply buried religious trauma I thought I had already worked through, wheeee. So glad to be here
I relate to this so much! Like Tanner, I was the poster child Mormon boy who was all in. I also was helped in my deconstruction by a co-worker and one of my best friends who left a few months before me and sent me the CES letter, but not until I asked for it. I had already been less active and not going for a year before that and questioned my belief in God. The only thing keeping me in was "There's no other explanation for the Book of Mormon." and once I found out there was it was game over for me.
Thank you so so much for sitting down and making this video. I wasn't mormon but fundamentalist christian and so many things you described in your deconversion/deconstruction were exactly what I went through as well. I especially connected with you talking about the feeling of being completely alone and the part about nearly driving yourself into psychosis over your thoughts.
Curiosity being at the heart of love is honestly amazing. I've never thought of it that way but I swear y'all just altered my brain chemistry with that one
Edit: I holding out but now that I'm done with the video, y'all didn't explain the name 😅
Omg that old clip of you made me so happy
This was wonderful, thank you for sharing. It gave me great insight on what my partner’s deconstruction (southern evangelical Baptist) was like, and I’m so glad I could be there for them during what must have been such a terrifying time. It’s interesting to hear a deconstruction story that highlights the hopefulness found after tearing down the walls of blind faith. That yes, there is a lot of anger with deconstruction, but that anger alone isn’t the driving factor. I wish you both the best of luck on your continuing journeys.❤
Thanks so much for sharing this :) I love hearing peoples deconstruction stories. I think you made a great point about how the church loves to say that anyone who is no longer of the religion is just a bad person who wanted to sin - they love to say this but in my case, in your case, in almost every case I've heard, the people who leave the religion dive so much deeper in, exactly as you described. I did the same because I was terrified to leave.
I also wanted to bring up something that was crucial in my deconstruction was actually V Sauce's video Spooky Coincidence because it basically explains that what we call coincidences may feel so crazy to us, but in reality there are so many things happening at all times, statistically it is not that uncommon to experience "coincidences" on a regular basis. AND humans are programmed to look for patterns in the world around us to help explain things. So we can see something and add meaning to it for ourselves. Which I think is beautiful - I love that we do this and it's super special to put meaning to "random" things and I don't think it takes away from the meaningfulness of it. But, religion makes it out to be "God" or the holy ghost, and it's easy to feel like that is true because it feels so much bigger than you when you experience it. And they make it out that nobody else experiences that without God. But it's a natural human experience, almost everyone can name instances like this that brought them to tears or made them emotional or felt super impactful.
Finally - can we get more on Sam's marriage? I feel like deconstruction in a morman marriage is a whole story on it's own and I would love a deeper dive on that.
Of course the one time I’m able to make catch the premiere because I’m on my college’s spring break, the Wi-Fi cut out for two hours at my place 😂.
I appreciate the video! I’ve been curious about your leaving stories!
I’m a NeverMo who was raised in and still lives with my family in Utah County, but I was raised Catholic, which provided some interesting cultural clashing as I grew up and still live in one of the most Mormon areas in the world. I’m agnostic now, but since Mormonism is much more homogeneous (especially in Utah) than Catholicism, I find learning about the history so interesting since I grew up in that culture.
My best friend who was the most dedicated Mormon you could meet (I guess you could say he’s the Tanner to my Sam) left recently and now drinks coffee, swears, and actually married a non-binary person! I haven’t really come out to my family as agnostic yet though, though I will when I move out at the latest. 😂
I relate to people thinking I was trying to tear the church down with sincere questions. I really tried my best to believe to the point of semi-knowing I was deluding myself.
Please create chapters for this video if you have time. I often watch the whole thing and then replay portions of your videos for my husband.💜
Your channel has really got me reflecting on the church I was brought up in (new apostolic church) because of some of its similarities to mormonism (baptisms & holy communion for the dead & other rituals that never struck me as odd at the time). It’s been 12 years since I left the church and 10 since I’ve become an atheist all together - although the church has definitely relaxed in years on a lot of things, I went back last year for a service with my mother (because I love her), and the main message was how children act out because they have the devil within them and it just made me so sad. They’re just being kids and learning about how to navigate the world, and they’re being taught that they’re inherently bad.
Sorry for rambling in your comments section, but I just wanted to say how I appreciate you talking about your experience and how it’s really helped me reflect on things that I never really did when leaving and how it impacted my life in a more significant way than I realized. Thank goodness for my “woke” university professor for giving me River out of Eden by Richard Dawkins as an assigned reading and beginning my unraveling 😂
Tanner, you are such a talented orator! Thank you for sharing your spiritual experience of connectedness with all of humanity, it was so compelling it genuinely put me in a more open and psychedelic state of being. Like listening to Ram Dass.
Love hearing both of your stories again! Couldn’t help but feel like this was a love letter recorded just for Dave’s ears 😂
This video is lovely, especially the conclusion! Also it is WILD to hear that "going clear" was your final straw to the journey. I haven't watched that, but I watched the series that came out on Netflix a few years ago, and I never considered that the elements might carry over to help others in high control groups see the flaws within their own systems. It shouldn't be surprising, but it's incredible how differently something like that can resonate. (I love watching documentaries on cult thinking because I enjoy learning how people psychologically form these patterns and, more interestingly, how they eventually break from them and come to realize their own truth. Just never occurred to me how useful that, in itself, might be!)
Hi Tanner and Sam, I’m so glad to find you I’m a catholic and I think that no matter what church we attended, we have the same problems because they teach us the same things, division, separation, intolerance and many other issues that make us not better than others but at the end is what it is. I just find your way of explaining your point of view so helpful to me and I’m sure many others, is so much that I like to say but it will be hard to put it in here, but thank you so much!!!❤ to both of you…
💜💜💜💜💜💜
I am not Mormon, or exmo, but I enjoy listening to these kinds of videos because I was a part of a fairly strict evangelical/fundamental system. Apart from the whole coffee and tea thing, although they were about limiting soda I'm seeing a lot of parallels between the Mormon religion and my church upbringing. However I have since remained in the church but not evangelical fundamental nor one that was strict as mine. I have found a very loving, supportive church family. I did feel however like I was deconstructing, not so much my faith as my faith is important to me, it makes me who I am, but certainly the church and the churches I would go to. Even my Bible college was fairly strict and had a big honor code fairly similar to the one in BYU. Let's just say I got a lot of demerits. Thanks for sharing your video and story it really gives me much perspective on my own faith and letting go of my hard church background.
This video is so so good. Couldn't stop listening. Well done you two! So validating for someone who's just hit their year mark of deconstructing. Thank you for being a source of hope, validation, and humor for me! ❤️💕
I'm at 1:28:01 and my cat is stanced up staring at yours on my tv lmao 😭 he's like who the fuck is this guy?! Great video I'm really loving it Also the cat thing is making me laugh
i appreciate you guys so much! i love your approach towards the people That you commentate on! I think that graciousness is the key to being heard.
Sam and Tanner thank you for this video - it all resonates so strongly with me and it is so helpful to feel validation and kindness during my faith transition
I am here for the good news of the zelph but the cat is life giving as well thank you for your good content
This is the first video I've ever watched from you guys.... I can't help but notice you didn't explain the name of the channel haha :P Loved the video, thanks for putting something like this out there!
You guys are awesome! Thanks for making a video to contain your individual journeys out of the church
Your lived experience and practical wisdom do help in navigating through the muddy waters of religious claims and control tactics. Thank you for sharing!
Newer viewer here! Agnostic & raised without religion, but the Beth/Dav debacle has been fascinating. It’s like Plato’s Allegory of the Cave, unfurling in real time on social media! Go Dav Go! You both are great explainers, I think a wonderful video idea would be for you to dive into:
-cognitive biases
-psychological methods used by high control groups
-basic therapy skills to help people cope (DBT, CBT, family systems etc). Honestly SMART recovery does an awesome job teaching these skills you should check it out. AA is culty AF
-cognitive distortions
-psychology 101 (ego, super ego etc)
- I’d imagine your channel now draws viewers struggling with their religion and they likely lack exposure to resources that teach them therapeutic skills. Plus therapy is a luxury resource many cannot access. Your channel could help bridge the gap to healing and life skill learning
-resources of basic skills to help people grappling
-zizek & ideologies
-shamanism and psychedelics, rituals (I’m picking up what you’re putting down with Hamilton’s Pharmacopia)
Super great explaining & entertaining. Here I am, an agnostic who never thinks about religion, but all this has been so fascinating to view from an anthropological perspective. Well done! And fuck it up Dav! We’re rooting for you!
PS: You should read PiHKAL, Dav if you happen to see this, you too!
PPS: FYI I watch Fundie Fridays, and your videos are recommended to me, but I’ve always avoided them because I was always like….wtf is a zelph? I had no idea what type of channel this was and I’m pleasantly surprised & subscribed! The claymation podcast is excellent, don’t give up on it because it might appeal to your new viewers. It’s giving Duncan Trussel Family Hour vibes and that’s a compliment of the highest order. I vote lean into the unhinged creativity on the podcast. Go full Duncan/Adult Swim/Trixie & Katya. If the viewers are lower, it’s likely because it’s a different target audience who hasn’t found the content yet. Claymation podcast is perfect for clippable tiktok content. Integrate the shadowban! 😭
I’m so glad I found this channel, you guys are so funny and well spoken.
This was really beautiful. Thank you for sharing :)
1:55:12 😂 love the cat bit. But I believe the full idiom "curiosity killed the cat but satisfied brought it back" is particularly applicable in the case of deconstruction because curiosity leads you down a path that ultimately, as Tanner said, leads to ego death. So a part of you dies once you go down the path of curiosity, but the satisfaction of learning the truth sort of "brings you back" to reconstruct your true self.
This is probably one of my favorite episodes you guys have ever done! I started watching you a few years ago during the pandemic I think, when your channel was new, before I even started deconstruction (I've just always had a fascination with Mormonism... don't know why). Don't be ashamed of your old videos! They're still excellent content! I refound you guys because of the Fundie Fridays reaction to Dav's deconstruction video. So glad to be back! Keep up the good work. Sent this video to some of my fellow deconstructing friends too. We love you guys, and the cats 🐈 🐈
New subscriber! Love you both. I deconstructed my catholic faith in high school (thanks to my queerness wootwoot!) but still struggle with shame and guilt associated with mental illness. I guess you could say I'm currently working on deconstructing my limiting beliefs and negative self esteem. Although it can be really difficult, I'm thankful for spaces like this where I'm reminded of how powerful we truly are. Being curious and creative is such a strength. Thanks for sharing your stories and inspiring me to continue my deconstruction/reconstruction journey of self.
PS. Also a big Ram Dass fan and highly recommend the album Music for Psychedelic Therapy by Jon Hopkins if you want some beautiful meditative music with a loving Ram Dass message at the end.
Nice to see another ex-catholic here! My deconstruction story was very similar, also due to queerness but also due to the bullsht going on with catholic popes and bishops.
Thank you for sharing your deconstruction process. I too experienced similar but different circumstances. To come to the realization of living in the now is huge and oh so liberating. Watching this video brings me so much joy to know the brainwashing does wash off.
Absolutely cracking up at the idea of a Santa Claus indoctrination camp 😂
I'm not ex-mo or religious in any way, i don't even know why i got recomended this channel in the first place, but the topic was interesting and you guys were great speakers so i
kept watching...
Then i kept watching more and more of your videos because the two of you are genuinely the most inspiring human beings i've ever seen. Usually the people we're expected to look up to these days are because of carrers accomplishements, and money and succes and wining on capitalism and whatever; but you two are the first time i just feel inspired by someone's humanity. Your empathy, your openes to discovery, the grace you give other human beings; there's something so genuine and full o life and true compassion about you two...And unlike these others "ask not what capitalism can do for you, but what you can do for it", that just make me feel unacomplished and lazy and stupid...Your videos genuinely make me want to work to be a better person. Is not like i'm being looked down upon; but instead i feel as if i'm beeing offered a ladder.
Also. What do i have to do to find myself a platonic soulmate like the two of you have found on each other? I'd do literally anything ha!
What a mind-blowingly lovely comment, wow. 😭 🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷
I think whatever you’re seeing in us exists in YOU and that’s why you’re recognizing it and valuing it! And now this comment is making me want to be a better person to try and live up to that hahaha 🙈🩷
HOPE YOU HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY AND STUMBLE UPON YOUR DREAM PLATONIC SOULMATE SOON!!!!!! ✨
i’m a baptist christian and i really do love watching your videos even tho we don’t agree on things. you are both so polite and i really respect that. it is crazy to hear about the things you went through while being mormon
Even as Mormons you guys were hilarious as shit
The HD is great and I also like to watch your old videos. They're so endearing!
Love your friendship with each other. Thank you for the thoughtful sharing of your journey. #exvangelical
The cat makes this whole thing just 👏🏻🙌🏻🤌🏻
You two (and your cats) are such a joy to watch. Thanks for sharing your stories. It’s videos like yours that helped me deconstruct my religion. I just can’t believe that such amazing people are going to hell for not believing. And if you are then I’ll see you there 😂
I appreciate how inclusive you guys have become in the past few years. You're modeling a wonderful example for the rest of us. It's true that we don't 100% choose our belief system. We're born into it, or indoctrinated, or fall into it during a crisis. I need to remember that about religion and politics!
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1:33:45 “I don’t think I’ve ever seen Jurassic Park.”
I sense a movie night soon. You don’t even need to see any of the later ones. The original is all you need.
jurassic park, like life… er eh em finds a way
Was the Denver snuffer time when tanner was taking sacrament outside of church? You all are the first exmo channel I ever watched and made me dive full in on learning about LDS things. Also, I didn’t even know I was already in my own deconstruction journey by then (they sneak up sometimes!). You’ve done an admirable job showing all of us that there is something next. And sharing from a place where you’ve processed and re-processed the pains already really helped me not get stuck in the anger stage. ❤
Watching WACO on Netflix cracked my shelf in a big way
As a nevermo, I'm so deep into my parasocial connection to the online exmormon community, that when I heard of how y'all lost your faith for probably the 3rd time since I binged all the content, I got physical chills all over my body 😂
Either way, love you two and loved the video! 🩵 The storytelling is always superb
Nevermo here and relate so hard lol
Great work! You guys are phenomenal. I would love to see an episode comparing your magician skills to the Church's "sleight of hand" techniques.
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That was lovely to hear, thank you :-) Very powerful how tanner described the moment when he realised that he spoke to himself in prayer. And how Sam described the horror of deconstructing. Very interesting to hear. Did I miss it, or did you guys still not explain the name?
I really enjoy watching your videos - you’re both so intelligent but also kind people. I have never been LDS but I have family in the church and I’ve kind of watched from the sidelines, interested and a bit concerned. The four children of my generation all did missions, even the girls. All went to BYU.
I can totally see why people buy into it though - even the word ‘celestial’ has something so lovely about it. The idea of being with your loved ones forever is lovely so it hits people in the right place, I guess.
I'm at work about to start, but I'm sure I'll stop and comment again when something inevitably sticks with me. Keep it up yall, you're so lovely and many of us look forward to your videos(especially the long ones, good listening at work).
Already relating really hard to both the conversion(from sam) and deconstruction stories. I won't ramble about it too much, but suffice to say this video is super cathartic. The process of deconstruction can be so lonely
Instead of a shelf, I imagined a satchel that I shoved those doubts and whatnot into until it ripped open and all of it was there in front of me and I knew that a church with all this wrong couldn't be true. It's literally not, so it can't be.
Lolol I'll try to stop commenting but I also struggled with throwing things out during times I was trying to double down on my faith. Oooof. Also, I don't recommend being nonbinary and Mormon its... a time
I’m an ex-Catholic but I listen to many ex-Mormon channels like yours for my own deconstruction since there isn’t a lot of content specifically for us and I’ve found so many similarities between my own experience and of many ex-Mormons.
6:41 in my case I went from a very lapsed Catholic to increasingly devout in my teenage years and that’s how I ended up at the high demand parish community (possibly a cult according to one of my therapists) until I left Catholicism and Christianity altogether when I was 24 shortly before the pandemic, it was because I was very insecure about my own sense of identity and purpose like so many teenagers and conservative and fundamentalist groups are very good at fulfilling those needs (even if based on answers that don’t align with reality).
Ultimately what drove me away from that community was the hostility towards mainstream science many of the people there, like more moderate Catholics I was willing to believe most of Genesis was a metaphor but one of my then closest friends thought evolution and the Big Bang were nonsense the only time I brought up the subject to him. Eventually I ended up rejecting Original Sin in its entirety and it all just fell apart for me because without it Jesus pretty much died for nothing then (I know Mormons don’t believe in that though but it’s a cornerstone doctrine for Catholicism and most other denominations).
I love you two so much. Tanner’s talk about spirituality toward the end had me in tears because it’s exactly what I feel too after going through a faith crisis. (Weirdly enough, the thing that got me past full-blown nihilism was Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy lol.) Did y’all explain your channel’s name though or did my ADHD self blank out for a minute? I understand the “shelf” part but not the Zelph.
Im literally in love with both of you! This video was such a rollercoaster of emotions for me, but I can't thank you enough for making it. THANK YOU.
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47:54 I am a bit older, but had some similar experiences, did much of my mission in South America, and I also was looking for faithful sources. Your poem on Mormon stories, rang so true for me. I didn’t leave for a while afterwards, but is a memorable mile marker on that journey
This was such an entertaining video. Thanks for sharing your stories!!!
I feel a lot of religious people don't understand that for atheists, we don't believe in an afterlife/heaven so we only have ONE life. What we do in it is so important, we want it to matter and a lot of it translate to helping people who are hurting (like minorities). I could go on and on about it but ultimately, if a god did exist I'm pretty sure a lot of atheists would end up in heaven because their actions and kindness speaks more than just performing what a religious text supposably says you have to do.
yes you're a victim
@@drzelensky4547 could you explain what you meant there?
@@daenerys02 explain to me how men make love to other men. Through the defecation hole?
You guys inspired my deconstruction with the Bible video.💕
Ahh 💜💜💜
Love the cat joining in!
As a Jewish person, hearing that you relied on other ppl to feed you bc it was the Sabbath is so sad. Like Orthodox/observant Jews don't buy or cook food on the Sabbath but we always prepare food (and specifically special, festive food) ahead of time. Don't get me wrong, I'm on my own faith journey bc following Jewish law is extremely difficult for me due to my issues with executive functioning (and other disabilities and being a woman lol) but i just hate when certain religions will have rules and provide no follow up or work arounds. The one thing that all but the most insular Jewish communities do well is that we have a value of "living by the laws and not dying by them." Meaning, if following a commandment puts your life at risk you are obligated to violate that commandment and take care or your health. Of course, depending on the community there's different levels of social pressures and norms, but theologically speaking you are basically never supposed to risk your health in the name of religious obedience.
Great video. I love honest conversation about "controversial" topics. These videos are so important.
"wondering when the more would come" -- my parents made sure they taught us critical thinking skills and then did a shocked pikachu when we (my brother and I) turned those on the church. By the time I was 13 I was intellectually bored. Most church lessons are just. Reinventing the wheel and giving it a new coat of paint. After a while when it's all still so basic and shallow, there's nothing to do but take it apart.
Also Tanner describing his emotional state during and after his realization that god didn't exist hits so hard. Having lived something similar, in that moment it's such an individual experience, so to hear someone else describing a similar reaction -- I feel seen.
I really appreciate how Sam repeatedly brings up psycological behavior patterns and dissects her own experiences through that lens.
I love love love the point about curiosity and love being intermingled; thank you for sharing your stories
🩷🩷!
help i’ve gotten to the point where my inner monologue is turning into sam’s voice 👁️👁️
Gorgeous 😜 and my inner monologue becomes more American every day haha
1:18:46 fun fact: Because Islam is also an abrahamic religion along with Judaism and Christianity, it shares the same source lore- the Quran is really just a stylistically different retelling of the same events (more poetic, less literal, but with many of the same cast and characters). The timelines and specific details might have their differences, but the Quran is not inherently any more violent than the Torah or bible. I’d actually argue that the Bible includes violent tidbits/inconsequential details that are not present in the accounts relayed in the Quran.
TL;DR If the Torah is book 1, then the Bible is book 2, the Quran is book 3, which makes the Book of Mormon a popular Book 2 Fanfic-turned-canon by its cult following.
I love this tldr hahaha
Thank you for sharing your individual experiences. I think watching this finally brought me to the realization of why I feel such a kinship with people who have deconstructed from high control groups. My dad was ex-Mormon and my mom was ex-Jehovah’s Witness. They did not bring us up with any religion but… My dad essentially structured our family unit so that he was God. Our family turned into a sort of high control group. It sounds crazy but that’s the best way to describe it.
It's mad how the church touts "You can't trust your feelings, feelings are not fact" and then emotionally manipulates people/followers through music, high-emotion preaching, and enforced vulnerability (ie. sharing your fears/insecurities with a small group). I hate the hypocrisy of (high control) religion.
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Wow yall talking about the Scientology doc shook me because the first crack in my own fundamentalism was learning about Mormons and having basically the same thought process. It was way easier to dismiss other religions but seeing people call themselves Christians and thinking they were crazy made me realize how none of my own beliefs made and sense.
This is why Relationship Anarchy is such a powerful philosophy for me as someone who is constantly deconstructing all of the imaginary things. ❤
I think that cat knows the secrets of the universe.
You guys were such adorable little mormons!!! Love you guys
Thank you for sharing your stories