Russell M Nelson actually performed open-heart surgery on himself while he was on an airplane that was shot down by African assassins hellbent on killing him and kidnapping the woman with a purple hat
When you guys said that mormons are "duty-driven" I feel like you hit something in a dark corner of my brain. My parents are 100% duty driven, to the point of mental and physical injury. I think I have been too. I have SUCH a hard time prioritizing what really makes me joyful. But, what does it mean to not be duty-driven? It's hard to think about. Would love a video on that topic
The worst part of being Mormon for me was thinking my individuality had no value. I was expected to be a perfect Mormon robot and find a husband and avoid experiencing this world. nothing else had value. Was so depressing.
As someone raised in a conservative religion and being a minister in that religion I can say un emphatically that no one is ever too far in. If you’re mind and heart are out… you are out. Leaving physically is hard but it’s worth it.
Sorry Amy that you have such a distorted view of what the True Gospel is really saying and all about. No-one in the Ward I attend claims to be perfect or expects perfection of others. We are all imperfect people. The terms "Saints" is misleading. We are all sinners seeking to overcome our shortcomings. Church is a hospital for sinners....
Darrin, nothing I said had anything to do with how “imperfect” members of the church are. It’s the teachings that made me feel like individuality doesn’t matter. We are taught to “forget ourselves” and “lose ourselves in service” and that gods plan for us is all the same … removing the value of individuality.
I feel you, and not doing that get you put in a pretty bad position in the church. At 19 I was dating a girl in church(I'm AFAB, so it was a lesbian relationship), we were both part of the young singles ward. We obviously didn't tell anyone at first but you know how it goes. She started to feel really guilty for the "sinful lifestyle" we were living and she told our bishop. I felt like I got punished more since when I was brought in about it I said I didn't think there was anything wrong with being queer because it was just my natural feeling and I didn't want to change it or not allow myself to find love. Took a few months after that before I left the church. I felt weird after that, like I was looked down on for not caring about the church's view on queer relationships. Also needless to say she had ended the relationship which is what it is, I hope the best for her. This was years ago.
This is such a good way of putting it. Nothing i contribute to the world matters in the face of an eternal afterlife where theres no problems and we know everything, nothing i want to do matters in the face of attaining salvation. All that matters is following the rugid and often arbitrary bounds of a proper mormon life
Dissociation feels like a very prevalent issue right now, and it makes sense with the world and societies we live in, it's so much easier to dissociate away and go numb to what's around rather than to embrace uncomfortable feelings and sit with them.
@@TheEuniceBurns1 couldn't have said it better. Dissociation, like a lot of things, probably developed to help us survive. But, like a lot of things, has kind of come full circle to harming us.
I really appreciate what you guys do. Sometimes it feels extremely isolating and scary knowing that most of my family believes this stuff but you guys injecting humor/commentary into it really helps me cope and make light of it. I wish I would’ve known about this channel when I was in the midst of my faith crisis 😭💜
I’ve found the phrase “think celestial” as the Church’s way to side step the more universal phrase “what would Jesus do” and make their brand I mean doctrine more recognizable
@BarryBorras - I've lived through Hell and Sin and survived to talk about it, and let me tell you: you are just chock full of pride, ain'tcha, thinking you can read minds, know the intentions of others, putting words in their mouths, like you're some all-knowing being. By thinking like that, you attempt to put yourself on the level of God, but you never will be, and now you're marked, just like me. Congratulations, you played yourself. I'll see you in Hell, Barry. @@WatchingwaitingG2D
Amazing. It’s shocking how shallow, unloving and controlling their talks are. It's crazy that I never felt that way when on the inside. I love listening to your discussions, it makes these talks less triggering. 😊
My family loved the "think celestial" and I greatly dislike how my mom likes to use it. Its a great way to ignore someone that is having struggles. Like, oh you have anxiety and can't stop thinking about terrible things? Think celestial and it will be healed hahahahahhahahh. Terrible terribleee
This brought up really strong emotions for me - magical thinking has been on my mind lately. There is real-world harm because my family believes this man. One of my siblings got divorced earlier this year, and moved back in with my 60yr old parents (with their 4 kids in tow and zero child support). My dad does manual labor, my mom has a very low paying job in education, and my sibling basically does gig work. At first, they kept talking about how the lord is blessing them financially; but it's clear that it was only a short burst of extra income that's quickly drying up. There's other factors as well, but they have poor financial planning because they are depending on how god is going to fix the problem (i.e. find new husband to provide right away, more jobs will come up, get a raise, etc). Needless to say, I'm so worried about them all, and extremely angry at the church that taught them this way of thinking.
@@flutenanyidk1806I’m watching a show from my country now & one character is a vegan Muslim woman in hijab who owns a successful business. And she makes her employees spend 10% of their income on charity 😂 Just pay the 10% yourself and let your employees choose which ones girl
43:11 one of my young women’s leaders was in college to become a radiologist before she met her husband and had kids. Of course she loves her family but she didn’t continue becoming a radiologist. And that’s the story of soooo many Mormon women it hurts my heart.
That is heartbreaking. I just hope she keeps that in mind enough to see the pattern of BS as it unfolds. Also, eyyy a fellow Patterson! I swear, the name is almost as common as Smith. I Googled myself once and couldn't find myself in the first 2,000+ results.
I can honestly say that I have personally spent over 600 hours of study about about Mormonism. Trying to convinced family members to leave this blasphemous cult
Did uou spend any of that time prayerfully reading and studying the Book of Mormon and come up with a realistic theory as to how it came about other than through inspired interpretation?
Tanner, I'm proud of you for challenging your disordered eating and not letting food rules become more important than your mental and physical health. I find for myself that the same impulse that gave me religious scrupulosity also causes disordered eating in me. People like us have to be careful about this kind of thing, i think
8:28 Even as a kid growing up in the church, I always felt there was something about the way all conference talks were given that was unique somehow, different from most oration and vastly different from early church leaders. The old recordings from Woodruff and other presidents from that era indicate very different oration styles from today. Interesting to now hear that it may be related to hypnosis. And when thinking back to others who use this style elsewhere, it’s always when someone is dressed nicely and trying to be presentable and respectable, but perhaps not fully honest and forthright somehow. Like a well dressed, attractive, charismatic politician who’s doing you dirty behind the scenes but damn they’re so likable and soothing!! Shows they really put thought into this at some point back at church headquarters.
Just wanted to say I appreciate the vids you two put out! I've introduced your channel to my mom and it's really helped the both of us on our journeys out of the church and to open our eyes to things we didn't realize or know about.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D I'm sorry you struggle to understand other people's negative experiences with the Mormon church. Hopefully you'll change your perspective one day and stop accusing people of being liars.
@ChirinPMT I'm sorry you haven't the awareness (or the desire to follow Gods commandments) to recognize when people are paid or just willing to lie and tell fake stories by a gay guy and a cheapy who had a problem with sex being a sin. No doubt you fall into the same categories.
I didn't know that he repeated "Think Celestial" like "Follow the prophet". He repeated that phrase a million times hahahaha. Sorry Rusty. We are already celestial beings because we are made of elements formed from stars that go supernova.
Omg, I was JUST talking about Lehi's dream the other day: I'd had the same epiphany! Since I left the church, it feels like I've found the tree of life, meanwhile, the Mormons in their foundationless "Great and Spacious Building" scorn me from afar. I thought I was so clever for reaching that conclusion lol
What a rush it must be to convince millions of people that you are a prophet, seer, and revelator, the only man on earth authorized to speak on behalf of God himself! As God's personal rock star, you are the only one authorized to update and distribute the official promotional literature necessary to market Celestial timeshare. Location, location, location! Just think, if you act now, you can live next door to all of the previous, present, and future Mormon apostles and prophets in all eternity in a special gated Celestial community. Wow! Where do I sign?
That Sounds worse than hell. Currently a member but I definitely won't want to be stuck for eternity with the holiest of us. When i say member, I mean socially active. Mentally out, now I only go once in a blue moon
45:02 I think the "close quote" is akin to saying "mic drop." Like in his mind, this would be a "and everyone clapped" moment, but 1) this is General Conference and he's gotta keep up his best hypnotic late night fm dj voice, and 2) it can't be that transparently masturbatory, because he's also humbly speaking as one of the only people on earth who experiences true joy 🙂 /i
it wont be long now when he stands b4 the lord, and explains why he decieved so many people. and instead of giving to the poor and hungry, he threatened hellfire if they didnt give to him.
Hearing talks like this and imagining my parents taking this very seriously is quite sad for me. Im sad that my parents see me this way. Im sad for myself but even more sad for my parents because im actually very cool and they're missing it.
I was baptised in March. It's a very long story, but I didn't do so mindlessly. And it took me decades to get to this point. Yet quite soon I realised that I had been suppressing doubts. Long story short, the Think Celestial talk disturbed me more than ANYTHING I'd heard or read previously. What I found so worrying though was how well received it was. I haven't left but I'm in limbo.
I do kiiiiiind of like the principle of thinking about the long term when you’re struggling, but the way he uses it is messed up. Sometimes when you’re struggling it can be genuinely useful to remind yourself “this is just a moment in time” but threatening people with losing their family and salvation is messed up.
Read the gospel topics essays, right stone rolling. and the Joseph Smith Papers. If you’re open to outside sources the most academically accredited source is called “no man knows my history.”
the fight or flight response that kicked in when the first clip of nelson came on LMAO. i haven't watched general conference in approaching a decade(!!) and it took me by surprise. the adrenaline will wear off by the end of the vid
23:35 : pure gold, I had to watch ‘Saw Movie God’ like 3 times, and then I had to get my partner, I say “You gotta see saw god”, they’re all “huh? You say ‘see saw’ god?” Me: Yeah, I say, see: ‘saw god” They: Uh , watcha you mean? Past, present, or future? Me: Well likely they are omnipresent…. Never mind, I’ll see (saw) my self oot
I developed binge eating disorder on my mission. I know for a fact that all the spirituality in the world cannot solve everyone’s food addiction. I needed medication.
Just want to share how much this channel seems to be helping multiple walks of life. Never Mormon but was VERY Catholic, left the church, then married into the startings of a cult. It's been 5 years, and I'm still randomly unraveling insane doctrine "truths" from both groups that I fully devoted myself to. Plus trying to let go of a sense of shame and guilt whenever I relax and do something for myself. Yall help me put words to feelings, and I appreciate that
Love the fits, both of you! And Tanner's hair cut is 🔥. On the hypanosis thing, no wonder I would be dozing off during general conference, glad I wasn't conscious for most of the speeches.
Eat drink and be Merry is a biblical principal. Ecclesiastes.. “For there is nothing better for man than to eat, drink, and be merry and enjoy the work of his hands“. Doesn’t he know this lie he speaks of is scripture.
I’m trying to be like Jesus in all that I do and say. Except, I don’t know much about Jewish Culture and don’t speak Aramaic. So, not in do and not in say.
I've been "chased" for decades by missionaries, no matter how many times I have moved. Will this "chasedness" get me into the Celestial Kingdom, or the Celestial Empire with the Chinese, or the Celestine Prophecy?
@47:33 funnily enough i can indeed confirm that the ruling council of the Jehovah's Witnesses (aka the Governing Body) also explicitly use fear to control the rank & file. 😅
gotta debunk your coffee theory...my kin drank the deepest darkest strongest coffee black. You would enter their home in the morning and feel the caffeine invade your pours as the aroma was so strong. They were ambassadors to Brazil and they had the coffee imported and use to go down to the docks in CA to retrieve it like they were buying some kind of contraband. My point is they aged to late 90's. I contend that stuff in their veins killed anything harmful. They were never sick and they weren't old people.
At 1:10:20 when you talk about reading scriptures vs going outside for a walk: YES! I never know when I've done enough. It's exhausting! And a moment later when you talk about baseline anxiety: I was diagnosed with anxiety earlier this year. I scoffed at the diagnosis. As we dug into it, I discovered that I've always had anxiety. It's been there for all of my 44 years and I just thought it was normal. And you know what the main source is/ was? The church. I always have it in the back of my head -I need to go to the temple (more) -Did in pray enough? -Is something bad going to happen because I didn't ask God correctly to protect me? Did I accidentally say 'you' instead of 'thou'? Was he offended and planning to punish me? - What if one of my kids doesn't follow the covenant path and I'll lose them forever? -I have contacted my visiting teachees. If they leave the church, then I'm responsible for them losing their salvation and being separated from their families forever. And on and on.
In regard to his comment about eating being an addiction, I used to binge as a young mother partially due to feeling overwhelmed with having 3 small children a year-and-a-half apart and feeling guilty for not being able to fulfill all of my church callings the way I felt I was supposed to along with not having time for family history and thinking if I could just read the scriptures more and pray more and fast more I would be able to. I also felt shame for overeating and thus not treating my body in a healthier way. Years later, after having oral surgery and not being able to eat much due to the pain it caused, I lost a LOT of weight. I felt that my not being able to eat much was the Lord's way of helping me learn to not live to eat. However, I lost so much weight that I had to go inpatient at an eating disorder facility when I thought I had finally learned to control my eating.
So I was a concert in the twenty teens and I remember learning that hell wasn’t really a thing? Just outer darkness and the suffering there was just being cut of from any form of god or not seeing your family but like you weren’t punished there. I’m wondering if that was a recent thing or a regional thing? Because that was the impression I got from everyone in the church I talked to.
I was taught Outer darkness is a place of nothingness. It's supposed to be worse than hell, reserved for those who deny the holy Ghost. Those are people who know the church is true, basically have seen the truth, and then turned against it. I think it was meant to scare Joseph's early followers in his inner circle to not betray him. But it was scary to think that if we 'knew the church was true' and left and told anyone bad things about it, we could go there. Sounds like the abusive people I've known. If you tell,... We will destroy you.' Creepy. Like my wonderful therapist who helped me so much said, 'That's love? Sounds like a lie to me.' Instead of 'Think celestial' that's what I have in my head. 'Sounds like a lie to me!' Lol. Works every time. 💕
At minute 14 you guys talked about pain and how we should be able to sit with our own pain and struggles And how the concept of Jesus diminishes our own experiences. It really resonated with me when I was 26 I was a TBM and I lost my vision completely and i was super bitter because Jesus may have experience blindness in the Grove for all of an hour, but here I had to live with it for the rest of my life I almost felt like it was someone complaining about being hungry for an hour when there’s people all over the world that starved to death and trying to call that relatable. I wish I would’ve seen it then but it took me another 10 years to leave the church. Absolutely love your content.
Many people ask me the secret to living so long. But that's the wrong question. I wish people would ask me what I know. But I can't actually answer that right now. SO let me say this... i have learned what I teach is fabulous!
30:08 I think it’s great to make that connection, but ultimately giving thanks to the animal who died doesn’t have an impact for anyone but yourself, because that animal didn’t choose to die for you, they were forced. I’m not trying to be mean, I understand what it’s like to struggle with disordered eating & veganism, I’ve struggled w/ bulimia since high school. But I think it’s something we all need to think about Edit: I really wanted to emphasize I’m not trying to be mean! I love your guys’ channel but I just wanted to say that
My parents taught me to avoid meaningless buzz-words and catchphrases. However, my parents are still in the church, and somehow they liked this speech, even though I literally told them that they're using meaningless buzz-words. Clearly, there's a disconnect there.
It's much easier to see your own mistakes or failings when other people are making the same mistakes. My parents do the same with political BS, I know how frustrating that is to witnesa
I’m not Mormon and never have been, but experienced plenty of binary, fearful, puritanical thinking in my regular Christian church and society growing up. It’s so helpful to hear you guys unpack these ideologies with nuance. Keep it up. 💛
Tanner, serious question. How do you "feel through" the experience of the chicken your meal is based upon? (refer to your monologue from 29:56 on). I don't understand how a human can look at life through the eyes of a chicken. What is it like?
try perceiving the world through sensation rather than words. animals live like this. what does it FEEL like to be in a cage, to have your eggs taken, to have your body snatched by giant creatures who will kill you and eat you?
I accomplished this by thinking about War of the Worlds. "What if big aliens came along one day and started snatching us up and munching on us like we're mice and they're cats." Then I started picturing it: a giant, striding over, grabbing me with massive hands, twisting off my head, plucking off my limbs, and tossing my torso into their mouth, or spearing me and roasting me over a fire. @@ZelphOntheShelf
I, too, would enjoy such garb. In the meantime, I'll substitute with a sandwich board. "Access the Kingdom of Heaven for only $5.00!! Just pass under the Holy Sandwich Board, consecrated by Pope John Paul II"
The Sun: Oh, no. Tanner had sex. 🌞💀 Edit: "And much of the world does not believe this, but public opinion is not the arbiter of truth." That is legitimately one of the cultiest things I have ever heard.
When I bring this kind of manipulation up with active friends and family all of them have the same response: that’s not how it’s going to happen, Jesus is going to “make everything work out in the end”. It’s like they just have deaf ears when the leaders say things they can’t reconcile (like they won’t be with family in the afterlife). Deaf ears are necessary in order to survive the mormon church.
"gods plan takes the mystery out of life, and the uncertainty about our future." Actual lol, I had to rewind that to make sure I heard him right. What a pinch of self awareness would do...
Man, when the "old guy," starting talking my heart rate increased and i had flashbacks. I haven't heard the "prophet," speak in about 15 years. It was unpleasant to say the least.
Rusty said a person once told him that he had too much temple in him. Call for a fact check. Rusty also said that another person penalized Rusty for being "religious." So sorry, but Rusty has been exposed for embellishing or lying about things that happened to him. Much like Paul H. Dunn did with his WW 2 combat, and his professional baseball playing tales. Their rationale is that it is okay to lie if it is faith promoting. It is known as "lying for the Lord. " So sorry, but you can't believe any of their personal tales. :.
small thing i noticed but he mentions that gods plan takes out the mystery of life so you know how to live, i love the mystery of life!!!! what's gonna happen! how am i going to change in the next 10 years? can't wait to find out! also, there is no way to take out the mystery of life and it's so telling that this human fear of the unknown is something he promises to fix
I’m debating if the men at the top are just dealing with mega levels of cognitive dissonance and think they’re doing the right thing or if they just don’t care and want money. I have a hard time seeing those seemingly jolly old men and thinking that not a single part of them believes what they say. They have to, somewhere deep down, think they’re helping people. But knowing what I know, and that they can’t be that high up without knowing the nasty history of Joseph Smith, I have to question that too sometimes. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt but…
Doctrines of Devils sounds like the name of a band. 😈You guys could make a satirical commercial with the phrase "Think Celestial" 🙈 And it would be wild if you guys made Pray, Pay, Obey home decor in the style of Live, Laugh Love! Imagine getting a "Think Celestial" t-shirt and cheesy sign in your stocking.
I'm an investigator and probably watched hundreds of exmo videos so far, and this is easily the most hilarious one I have found. Thank you Zelph on a Shelf for existing.
He learned that hevnly dada will help keep his plastic surgeon on call..... no one can sustain weirdness for decades like a lds zombie. Hare. Hare Krishna. Krishna Krishna hare hare.
I’m glad your referring to the cult by there full and proper name 😂. I don’t like when cult members say things like “wickedness, never was happiness”. I’ve got one for them: Cultness never was happiness! Being Cult free is wicked happiness!
What we are supposed to understand as God's perfect plan truly doesn't make any sense. God's plan is perfect because God is perfect and Satan is the opposite of that. If God is all-powerful could he not just defeat Satan or whatever and save his own creations from suffering? How can the opposite of perfection be a part of a "perfect" plan? As someone who grew up in the Christian church, I have wondered about that from a young age but never allowed myself to actually examine those questions until I was a teenager/young adult. It's crazy how much they teach you to repress your own thoughts. Because any doubt you may have comes from Satan, and you need to shut him out and not listen to him. It's so insane how much they teach you to be afraid of your own mind.
So if I make a donation to this channel can I write it off for tax benefits? You could argue that your channel is more charitable than the Mormon church
If we discuss the important of money.. it means thier treasure is thier God.. me thoughts the life of Christ. christ himself he didn't receive, the full tithe payer even christ did not receive.. the pharisee who received the full tithe as acceptance or submitted to. Even judas who is the treasurer cannot receive even one jot.
I like to call myself an almost-Mo because I almost converted while I was coping with my parents not accepting me as queer (I was doing some kind of social 180 to attempt to be accepted again, even though my parents aren’t even very religious). Thank the goddesses I stumbled upon a three hour-long Mormon Stories interview while investigating the church before converting because it was such a moving and beautiful story of a couple leaving the church and brought up issues I hadn’t heard about. It lead me to take a more critical approach to my research, and eventually led me to decide not to convert and brought me into the ex-Mormon internet community, including your lovely channel. Since this experience, I have loved listening to podcasts and UA-cam videos by creators like you because it is so validating, not only to what I went through, but also just for life in general and how manipulation, coercion, and abuse is not okay. I also struggle with anxiety and ED, which almost lead me to being a highly scrupulous Mormon, I think, and I watched this talk before finding this video, and the “food addiction” thing even fucked with ME for a few days. I can only imagine how much that would fuck me up as a member and feel so sad for anyone going through that now. Thank you for what you do. It is really helping people like me to avoid controlling groups like this ❤️
Russell M Nelson actually performed open-heart surgery on himself while he was on an airplane that was shot down by African assassins hellbent on killing him and kidnapping the woman with a purple hat
hahaha
How does the saying go? "Fools mock but they shall mourn"
Praying, Paying and Obeying sounds like their version of Live, Laugh, Love. 🤧
Also sounds very similar to Keep Sweet, Pray, and Obey
Think Celestial, stay on the covenant path.
Only you don’t get to live, laugh or love 😂
Live laugh toaster bath....
The way I got an ad for Celestial Seasonings tea at the end of this video was top tier comedy
I need a think celestial tshirt with the sleepytime bear
When you guys said that mormons are "duty-driven" I feel like you hit something in a dark corner of my brain. My parents are 100% duty driven, to the point of mental and physical injury. I think I have been too. I have SUCH a hard time prioritizing what really makes me joyful. But, what does it mean to not be duty-driven? It's hard to think about. Would love a video on that topic
You're as much a fake as those 2 money diggers are.
The worst part of being Mormon for me was thinking my individuality had no value. I was expected to be a perfect Mormon robot and find a husband and avoid experiencing this world. nothing else had value. Was so depressing.
As someone raised in a conservative religion and being a minister in that religion I can say un emphatically that no one is ever too far in. If you’re mind and heart are out… you are out. Leaving physically is hard but it’s worth it.
Sorry Amy that you have such a distorted view of what the True Gospel is really saying and all about. No-one in the Ward I attend claims to be perfect or expects perfection of others. We are all imperfect people. The terms "Saints" is misleading. We are all sinners seeking to overcome our shortcomings. Church is a hospital for sinners....
Darrin, nothing I said had anything to do with how “imperfect” members of the church are. It’s the teachings that made me feel like individuality doesn’t matter. We are taught to “forget ourselves” and “lose ourselves in service” and that gods plan for us is all the same … removing the value of individuality.
I feel you, and not doing that get you put in a pretty bad position in the church. At 19 I was dating a girl in church(I'm AFAB, so it was a lesbian relationship), we were both part of the young singles ward. We obviously didn't tell anyone at first but you know how it goes. She started to feel really guilty for the "sinful lifestyle" we were living and she told our bishop. I felt like I got punished more since when I was brought in about it I said I didn't think there was anything wrong with being queer because it was just my natural feeling and I didn't want to change it or not allow myself to find love. Took a few months after that before I left the church. I felt weird after that, like I was looked down on for not caring about the church's view on queer relationships. Also needless to say she had ended the relationship which is what it is, I hope the best for her. This was years ago.
This is such a good way of putting it. Nothing i contribute to the world matters in the face of an eternal afterlife where theres no problems and we know everything, nothing i want to do matters in the face of attaining salvation. All that matters is following the rugid and often arbitrary bounds of a proper mormon life
Dissociation feels like a very prevalent issue right now, and it makes sense with the world and societies we live in, it's so much easier to dissociate away and go numb to what's around rather than to embrace uncomfortable feelings and sit with them.
@@TheEuniceBurns1 couldn't have said it better. Dissociation, like a lot of things, probably developed to help us survive. But, like a lot of things, has kind of come full circle to harming us.
I really appreciate what you guys do. Sometimes it feels extremely isolating and scary knowing that most of my family believes this stuff but you guys injecting humor/commentary into it really helps me cope and make light of it. I wish I would’ve known about this channel when I was in the midst of my faith crisis 😭💜
I’ve found the phrase “think celestial” as the Church’s way to side step the more universal phrase “what would Jesus do” and make their brand I mean doctrine more recognizable
Sure you have. You just keep thinking sin.
@BarryBorras - I've lived through Hell and Sin and survived to talk about it, and let me tell you: you are just chock full of pride, ain'tcha, thinking you can read minds, know the intentions of others, putting words in their mouths, like you're some all-knowing being. By thinking like that, you attempt to put yourself on the level of God, but you never will be, and now you're marked, just like me. Congratulations, you played yourself. I'll see you in Hell, Barry. @@WatchingwaitingG2D
This. The phrase "What Would Jesus Do" would expose this and many other churches as having absolutely nothing to do with what Jesus taught.
@@fatemeetsluck As if you know what you're talking about.
Jesus has already said what he would do. When he gets here, try not to be too much of a crybaby when you fully realize what a hypocrite you've been.
Amazing. It’s shocking how shallow, unloving and controlling their talks are. It's crazy that I never felt that way when on the inside. I love listening to your discussions, it makes these talks less triggering. 😊
You were never on the inside. You don't have many morals to lie so easily.
My family loved the "think celestial" and I greatly dislike how my mom likes to use it. Its a great way to ignore someone that is having struggles. Like, oh you have anxiety and can't stop thinking about terrible things? Think celestial and it will be healed hahahahahhahahh. Terrible terribleee
This brought up really strong emotions for me - magical thinking has been on my mind lately. There is real-world harm because my family believes this man.
One of my siblings got divorced earlier this year, and moved back in with my 60yr old parents (with their 4 kids in tow and zero child support). My dad does manual labor, my mom has a very low paying job in education, and my sibling basically does gig work. At first, they kept talking about how the lord is blessing them financially; but it's clear that it was only a short burst of extra income that's quickly drying up.
There's other factors as well, but they have poor financial planning because they are depending on how god is going to fix the problem (i.e. find new husband to provide right away, more jobs will come up, get a raise, etc). Needless to say, I'm so worried about them all, and extremely angry at the church that taught them this way of thinking.
💔❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Its put at a x4 speed and still speaks so slowly. Can’t imagine listening for the whole conference 😂
To this day, my immediate thought when something financially positive happens is "It's because I paid my tithing!" I haven't paid it in years lol
I’ve decided that eventually I’m going to donate that 10% to causes I ACTUALLY care about. Like foster care and animal shelters.
@@flutenanyidk1806I’m watching a show from my country now & one character is a vegan Muslim woman in hijab who owns a successful business. And she makes her employees spend 10% of their income on charity 😂 Just pay the 10% yourself and let your employees choose which ones girl
43:11 one of my young women’s leaders was in college to become a radiologist before she met her husband and had kids. Of course she loves her family but she didn’t continue becoming a radiologist. And that’s the story of soooo many Mormon women it hurts my heart.
:/
That is heartbreaking. I just hope she keeps that in mind enough to see the pattern of BS as it unfolds.
Also, eyyy a fellow Patterson! I swear, the name is almost as common as Smith. I Googled myself once and couldn't find myself in the first 2,000+ results.
I can honestly say that I have personally spent over 600 hours of study about about Mormonism. Trying to convinced family members to leave this blasphemous cult
I'm 30,000 hours deep. People can't be convinced they're wrong until they're ready.
Did uou spend any of that time prayerfully reading and studying the Book of Mormon and come up with a realistic theory as to how it came about other than through inspired interpretation?
@@Zodiacalesotericmatrix on that we can agree :)
Tanner, I'm proud of you for challenging your disordered eating and not letting food rules become more important than your mental and physical health.
I find for myself that the same impulse that gave me religious scrupulosity also causes disordered eating in me. People like us have to be careful about this kind of thing, i think
8:28 Even as a kid growing up in the church, I always felt there was something about the way all conference talks were given that was unique somehow, different from most oration and vastly different from early church leaders. The old recordings from Woodruff and other presidents from that era indicate very different oration styles from today.
Interesting to now hear that it may be related to hypnosis. And when thinking back to others who use this style elsewhere, it’s always when someone is dressed nicely and trying to be presentable and respectable, but perhaps not fully honest and forthright somehow. Like a well dressed, attractive, charismatic politician who’s doing you dirty behind the scenes but damn they’re so likable and soothing!!
Shows they really put thought into this at some point back at church headquarters.
Just wanted to say I appreciate the vids you two put out! I've introduced your channel to my mom and it's really helped the both of us on our journeys out of the church and to open our eyes to things we didn't realize or know about.
💜💜💜💜!
Liar.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D I'm sorry you struggle to understand other people's negative experiences with the Mormon church. Hopefully you'll change your perspective one day and stop accusing people of being liars.
@ChirinPMT I'm sorry you haven't the awareness (or the desire to follow Gods commandments) to recognize when people are paid or just willing to lie and tell fake stories by a gay guy and a cheapy who had a problem with sex being a sin. No doubt you fall into the same categories.
@@WatchingwaitingG2Dlol this comment is a perfect encapsulation of mormon cultiness! thank you!
I didn't know that he repeated "Think Celestial" like "Follow the prophet". He repeated that phrase a million times hahahaha.
Sorry Rusty. We are already celestial beings because we are made of elements formed from stars that go supernova.
I, for one, would like to hear more about this Kevin. He sounds like a man I could follow!
I'm actually Kevin's best friend. If you give me around ten percent of your income for the rest of your life, I'd be happy to introduce you to him!
Omg, I was JUST talking about Lehi's dream the other day: I'd had the same epiphany! Since I left the church, it feels like I've found the tree of life, meanwhile, the Mormons in their foundationless "Great and Spacious Building" scorn me from afar. I thought I was so clever for reaching that conclusion lol
What a rush it must be to convince millions of people that you are a prophet, seer, and revelator, the only man on earth authorized to speak on behalf of God himself!
As God's personal rock star, you are the only one authorized to update and distribute the official promotional literature necessary to market Celestial timeshare. Location, location, location!
Just think, if you act now, you can live next door to all of the previous, present, and future Mormon apostles and prophets in all eternity in a special gated Celestial community. Wow! Where do I sign?
That Sounds worse than hell. Currently a member but I definitely won't want to be stuck for eternity with the holiest of us.
When i say member, I mean socially active. Mentally out, now I only go once in a blue moon
45:02 I think the "close quote" is akin to saying "mic drop."
Like in his mind, this would be a "and everyone clapped" moment, but 1) this is General Conference and he's gotta keep up his best hypnotic late night fm dj voice, and 2) it can't be that transparently masturbatory, because he's also humbly speaking as one of the only people on earth who experiences true joy 🙂
/i
Obsessed with this line of thinking :)
it wont be long now when he stands b4 the lord, and explains why he decieved so many people. and instead of giving to the poor and hungry, he threatened hellfire if they didnt give to him.
47:10 RMN should take the long view, and realize that any doctrines he presented will be dismissed by future presidents of the corporate sole.
Hearing talks like this and imagining my parents taking this very seriously is quite sad for me. Im sad that my parents see me this way. Im sad for myself but even more sad for my parents because im actually very cool and they're missing it.
I'm glad you guys covered this talk. It is alarming how well it seemed to be received by TBMs vs how horribly it sounds to those of us who have left
I was baptised in March. It's a very long story, but I didn't do so mindlessly. And it took me decades to get to this point. Yet quite soon I realised that I had been suppressing doubts. Long story short, the Think Celestial talk disturbed me more than ANYTHING I'd heard or read previously. What I found so worrying though was how well received it was. I haven't left but I'm in limbo.
I do kiiiiiind of like the principle of thinking about the long term when you’re struggling, but the way he uses it is messed up.
Sometimes when you’re struggling it can be genuinely useful to remind yourself “this is just a moment in time” but threatening people with losing their family and salvation is messed up.
Read the gospel topics essays, right stone rolling. and the Joseph Smith Papers. If you’re open to outside sources the most academically accredited source is called “no man knows my history.”
the fight or flight response that kicked in when the first clip of nelson came on LMAO. i haven't watched general conference in approaching a decade(!!) and it took me by surprise. the adrenaline will wear off by the end of the vid
23:35 : pure gold, I had to watch ‘Saw Movie God’ like 3 times, and then I had to get my partner,
I say “You gotta see saw god”,
they’re all “huh? You say ‘see saw’ god?”
Me: Yeah, I say, see: ‘saw god”
They: Uh , watcha you mean? Past, present, or future?
Me: Well likely they are omnipresent….
Never mind, I’ll see (saw) my self oot
I developed binge eating disorder on my mission. I know for a fact that all the spirituality in the world cannot solve everyone’s food addiction. I needed medication.
👏🏻
I always picture you guys meeting in a Sunday School class with the tan chairs for some reason it’s cute lol
Just want to share how much this channel seems to be helping multiple walks of life. Never Mormon but was VERY Catholic, left the church, then married into the startings of a cult. It's been 5 years, and I'm still randomly unraveling insane doctrine "truths" from both groups that I fully devoted myself to. Plus trying to let go of a sense of shame and guilt whenever I relax and do something for myself. Yall help me put words to feelings, and I appreciate that
❤️❤️❤️
Love the fits, both of you! And Tanner's hair cut is 🔥. On the hypanosis thing, no wonder I would be dozing off during general conference, glad I wasn't conscious for most of the speeches.
Think celestial = keep sweet
Eat drink and be Merry is a biblical principal. Ecclesiastes.. “For there is nothing better for man than to eat, drink, and be merry and enjoy the work of his hands“. Doesn’t he know this lie he speaks of is scripture.
I’m trying to be like Jesus in all that I do and say. Except, I don’t know much about Jewish Culture and don’t speak Aramaic. So, not in do and not in say.
I've been "chased" for decades by missionaries, no matter how many times I have moved. Will this "chasedness" get me into the Celestial Kingdom, or the Celestial Empire with the Chinese, or the Celestine Prophecy?
That's exactly what led me to remove membership, despite not actually caring about it otherwise. Paired with a threat of filling a cease and desist.
@47:33 funnily enough i can indeed confirm that the ruling council of the Jehovah's Witnesses (aka the Governing Body) also explicitly use fear to control the rank & file. 😅
gotta debunk your coffee theory...my kin drank the deepest darkest strongest coffee black. You would enter their home in the morning and feel the caffeine invade your pours as the aroma was so strong. They were ambassadors to Brazil and they had the coffee imported and use to go down to the docks in CA to retrieve it like they were buying some kind of contraband. My point is they aged to late 90's. I contend that stuff in their veins killed anything harmful. They were never sick and they weren't old people.
At 1:10:20 when you talk about reading scriptures vs going outside for a walk: YES! I never know when I've done enough. It's exhausting!
And a moment later when you talk about baseline anxiety: I was diagnosed with anxiety earlier this year. I scoffed at the diagnosis. As we dug into it, I discovered that I've always had anxiety. It's been there for all of my 44 years and I just thought it was normal. And you know what the main source is/ was? The church. I always have it in the back of my head
-I need to go to the temple (more) -Did in pray enough?
-Is something bad going to happen because I didn't ask God correctly to protect me? Did I accidentally say 'you' instead of 'thou'? Was he offended and planning to punish me?
- What if one of my kids doesn't follow the covenant path and I'll lose them forever?
-I have contacted my visiting teachees. If they leave the church, then I'm responsible for them losing their salvation and being separated from their families forever.
And on and on.
In regard to his comment about eating being an addiction, I used to binge as a young mother partially due to feeling overwhelmed with having 3 small children a year-and-a-half apart and feeling guilty for not being able to fulfill all of my church callings the way I felt I was supposed to along with not having time for family history and thinking if I could just read the scriptures more and pray more and fast more I would be able to. I also felt shame for overeating and thus not treating my body in a healthier way. Years later, after having oral surgery and not being able to eat much due to the pain it caused, I lost a LOT of weight. I felt that my not being able to eat much was the Lord's way of helping me learn to not live to eat. However, I lost so much weight that I had to go inpatient at an eating disorder facility when I thought I had finally learned to control my eating.
💜💜💜💜💜💜
So I was a concert in the twenty teens and I remember learning that hell wasn’t really a thing? Just outer darkness and the suffering there was just being cut of from any form of god or not seeing your family but like you weren’t punished there. I’m wondering if that was a recent thing or a regional thing? Because that was the impression I got from everyone in the church I talked to.
Yeah that one’s tricky!!
I was taught Outer darkness is a place of nothingness. It's supposed to be worse than hell, reserved for those who deny the holy Ghost.
Those are people who know the church is true, basically have seen the truth, and then turned against it. I think it was meant to scare Joseph's early followers in his inner circle to not betray him.
But it was scary to think that if we 'knew the church was true' and left and told anyone bad things about it, we could go there.
Sounds like the abusive people I've known. If you tell,... We will destroy you.'
Creepy.
Like my wonderful therapist who helped me so much said, 'That's love? Sounds like a lie to me.'
Instead of 'Think celestial' that's what I have in my head. 'Sounds like a lie to me!'
Lol. Works every time.
💕
At minute 14 you guys talked about pain and how we should be able to sit with our own pain and struggles And how the concept of Jesus diminishes our own experiences. It really resonated with me when I was 26 I was a TBM and I lost my vision completely and i was super bitter because Jesus may have experience blindness in the Grove for all of an hour, but here I had to live with it for the rest of my life I almost felt like it was someone complaining about being hungry for an hour when there’s people all over the world that starved to death and trying to call that relatable. I wish I would’ve seen it then but it took me another 10 years to leave the church. Absolutely love your content.
Man if my accent was as beautiful as Sam’s I would never stop talking
It’s so obvious how creepy Russel is. It sad that people worship him.
Legit scarier than The Crypt Keeper.
Did y'all come up w that Kevin test? Because thats so amazing and useful
yep, kevin’s our guy lol
23:35 FASTEST THUMBS UP SMASH EVER YOU TWO ARE AMAZING.
Many people ask me the secret to living so long. But that's the wrong question. I wish people would ask me what I know. But I can't actually answer that right now. SO let me say this... i have learned what I teach is fabulous!
🤗🤗🤗
30:08 I think it’s great to make that connection, but ultimately giving thanks to the animal who died doesn’t have an impact for anyone but yourself, because that animal didn’t choose to die for you, they were forced. I’m not trying to be mean, I understand what it’s like to struggle with disordered eating & veganism, I’ve struggled w/ bulimia since high school. But I think it’s something we all need to think about
Edit: I really wanted to emphasize I’m not trying to be mean! I love your guys’ channel but I just wanted to say that
Tanner-I want a reading list from you!
My parents taught me to avoid meaningless buzz-words and catchphrases. However, my parents are still in the church, and somehow they liked this speech, even though I literally told them that they're using meaningless buzz-words. Clearly, there's a disconnect there.
It's much easier to see your own mistakes or failings when other people are making the same mistakes. My parents do the same with political BS, I know how frustrating that is to witnesa
cognitive dissonance is a super interesting and a bit terrifying thing
I’m not Mormon and never have been, but experienced plenty of binary, fearful, puritanical thinking in my regular Christian church and society growing up. It’s so helpful to hear you guys unpack these ideologies with nuance. Keep it up. 💛
1:11:00 is the start of THE perfect short!! Beautifully said Tanner!!!
Tanner, serious question. How do you "feel through" the experience of the chicken your meal is based upon? (refer to your monologue from 29:56 on). I don't understand how a human can look at life through the eyes of a chicken. What is it like?
try perceiving the world through sensation rather than words. animals live like this. what does it FEEL like to be in a cage, to have your eggs taken, to have your body snatched by giant creatures who will kill you and eat you?
I accomplished this by thinking about War of the Worlds. "What if big aliens came along one day and started snatching us up and munching on us like we're mice and they're cats." Then I started picturing it: a giant, striding over, grabbing me with massive hands, twisting off my head, plucking off my limbs, and tossing my torso into their mouth, or spearing me and roasting me over a fire. @@ZelphOntheShelf
"think celestial" epitome of thought-stopping cliche and thought control as from the T in BITE
Lose my family forever??? say less!
I'd buy a 'Pray, Pay, Obey' shirt. If one showed up as a merch item...
I, too, would enjoy such garb. In the meantime, I'll substitute with a sandwich board.
"Access the Kingdom of Heaven for only $5.00!! Just pass under the Holy Sandwich Board, consecrated by Pope John Paul II"
With a disclaimer that they are not part of a cult.
The Sun: Oh, no. Tanner had sex. 🌞💀
Edit: "And much of the world does not believe this, but public opinion is not the arbiter of truth." That is legitimately one of the cultiest things I have ever heard.
it is used by cults, but it is true in the grand scheme of things.
Maybe Nelson refuses to die so he doesn't have to deal with all of that family he's eternally sealed to.
thanks guys I like your funny analogies 👍🏻
When I bring this kind of manipulation up with active friends and family all of them have the same response: that’s not how it’s going to happen, Jesus is going to “make everything work out in the end”. It’s like they just have deaf ears when the leaders say things they can’t reconcile (like they won’t be with family in the afterlife). Deaf ears are necessary in order to survive the mormon church.
"gods plan takes the mystery out of life, and the uncertainty about our future." Actual lol, I had to rewind that to make sure I heard him right. What a pinch of self awareness would do...
Steven Segal should be Lds leader can we vote on this
Didn't Kevin drown literally every human on the planet one time? Oh except for that Noah guy and his fam.
1:17:48 I used to believe I wouldn't be able to find interested partners. That did get changed by having sex.
Man, when the "old guy," starting talking my heart rate increased and i had flashbacks. I haven't heard the "prophet," speak in about 15 years. It was unpleasant to say the least.
Beans, berries, and sweet potatoes! Better advice than any apostle has ever given 🙌🏼
Rusty said a person once told him that he had too much temple in him. Call for a fact check. Rusty also said that another person penalized Rusty for being "religious." So sorry, but Rusty has been exposed for embellishing or lying about things that happened to him. Much like Paul H. Dunn did with his WW 2 combat, and his professional baseball playing tales. Their rationale is that it is okay to lie if it is faith promoting. It is known as "lying for the Lord. " So sorry, but you can't believe any of their personal tales. :.
"That's so 2015, we're fully into clay now" 😂😂😂
small thing i noticed but he mentions that gods plan takes out the mystery of life so you know how to live, i love the mystery of life!!!! what's gonna happen! how am i going to change in the next 10 years? can't wait to find out! also, there is no way to take out the mystery of life and it's so telling that this human fear of the unknown is something he promises to fix
Right?!??
My Dad was born in 1900. His parents paid $10 a month in rent for a house in Delaware. 🇺🇸
This is the creepiest looking guy ever. I don’t want to even look at him much less spend eternity with him. No thanks
You will only spend eternity with him if you are married to him in the temple. So my suggestion: don't marry him!
Tanner's sheep puns are not getting the attention they deserved
it’s baaad 🐑
I’m debating if the men at the top are just dealing with mega levels of cognitive dissonance and think they’re doing the right thing or if they just don’t care and want money. I have a hard time seeing those seemingly jolly old men and thinking that not a single part of them believes what they say. They have to, somewhere deep down, think they’re helping people.
But knowing what I know, and that they can’t be that high up without knowing the nasty history of Joseph Smith, I have to question that too sometimes.
I want to give them the benefit of the doubt but…
Doctrines of Devils sounds like the name of a band. 😈You guys could make a satirical commercial with the phrase "Think Celestial" 🙈 And it would be wild if you guys made Pray, Pay, Obey home decor in the style of Live, Laugh Love! Imagine getting a "Think Celestial" t-shirt and cheesy sign in your stocking.
I would buy that for gifts lol
@@knz10639 Especially a heavy metal band style t-shirt of Doctrines of Devils! 🤭
🤘🏼doctrines of the devils🤘🏼 album name: apostasy
Number one single: eternal damnation
@@jezzikac7472 Just wait till they release Outer Darkness: Deluxe Edition! 😝
I'm an investigator and probably watched hundreds of exmo videos so far, and this is easily the most hilarious one I have found. Thank you Zelph on a Shelf for existing.
Awww yay!!!
i miss the old original church full of which craft and occult teachings.....
bro him quoting jesus is like. yeah it does give the energy that he does have sandwiches with this guy every thursday
He sounds like a creep so does Oaks. I liked monson and Hinckley
The negative comments are hilarious! This is advanced ExMo content not for the TBM.
They use shame to have you need the church.
I think I'm watching Nelson on your channel on his 100th birthday. Crazy.
He learned that hevnly dada will help keep his plastic surgeon on call..... no one can sustain weirdness for decades like a lds zombie. Hare. Hare Krishna. Krishna Krishna hare hare.
TSCC always make me think of the song "obey" by Bring me the horizon.
1:30:06 this was THE LINE that broke my shelf🙃
Is it just me?! Why do you need to become an eternal "God"?
Mormon business is way bigger and deeper than what we probably know for sure.
Winnie the Pooh and Paddington Bear are destined for the celestial kingdom.
Sam is too good at expressing her psychopathic Saw God love. "I LOVE YOU SO FUCKING MUCH"
Yep. She's been there, seen it, had to participate in it. I can't imagine how dirty it must have felt after self-substantiating with those memories.
0:32 is that a duck???
Oh it’s a cat lol
I dont think ace people were intimidated by the TK-smoothie threat.
I’m glad your referring to the cult by there full and proper name 😂. I don’t like when cult members say things like “wickedness, never was happiness”. I’ve got one for them: Cultness never was happiness! Being Cult free is wicked happiness!
0:30 Kimmtons!! Kitty!!!
Why didn't Rusty serve a mission?
Think celestial is the new church motto… I’m a PIMO member and I have gotten a sticker, wristband, and sweatshirt with Think Celestial on it lmao.
What we are supposed to understand as God's perfect plan truly doesn't make any sense. God's plan is perfect because God is perfect and Satan is the opposite of that. If God is all-powerful could he not just defeat Satan or whatever and save his own creations from suffering? How can the opposite of perfection be a part of a "perfect" plan?
As someone who grew up in the Christian church, I have wondered about that from a young age but never allowed myself to actually examine those questions until I was a teenager/young adult. It's crazy how much they teach you to repress your own thoughts. Because any doubt you may have comes from Satan, and you need to shut him out and not listen to him. It's so insane how much they teach you to be afraid of your own mind.
I would watch the mormon saw movie. 😂
So if I make a donation to this channel can I write it off for tax benefits? You could argue that your channel is more charitable than the Mormon church
Zelph on a shelf? More charitable? Lol 😂
If we discuss the important of money.. it means thier treasure is thier God.. me thoughts the life of Christ. christ himself he didn't receive, the full tithe payer even christ did not receive.. the pharisee who received the full tithe as acceptance or submitted to. Even judas who is the treasurer cannot receive even one jot.
I like to call myself an almost-Mo because I almost converted while I was coping with my parents not accepting me as queer (I was doing some kind of social 180 to attempt to be accepted again, even though my parents aren’t even very religious). Thank the goddesses I stumbled upon a three hour-long Mormon Stories interview while investigating the church before converting because it was such a moving and beautiful story of a couple leaving the church and brought up issues I hadn’t heard about. It lead me to take a more critical approach to my research, and eventually led me to decide not to convert and brought me into the ex-Mormon internet community, including your lovely channel. Since this experience, I have loved listening to podcasts and UA-cam videos by creators like you because it is so validating, not only to what I went through, but also just for life in general and how manipulation, coercion, and abuse is not okay.
I also struggle with anxiety and ED, which almost lead me to being a highly scrupulous Mormon, I think, and I watched this talk before finding this video, and the “food addiction” thing even fucked with ME for a few days. I can only imagine how much that would fuck me up as a member and feel so sad for anyone going through that now.
Thank you for what you do. It is really helping people like me to avoid controlling groups like this ❤️
Enjoying the KEVIN bashing. Just watched HOME ALONE. FREAKING PSYCHO.