My 83 year old mother was overprescribed drugs during the past year and almost died before we figured out what was happening. Docs kept adjusting dosages for a medical condition and then treated the side effects with more and more meds. She ended up basically a drug addict before we realized it, for side effects that included serious mental conditions. A new physician eventually weaned her, a traumatic and dramatic process for one so old, and thankfully doing better now, off almost all drugs. Thanks Doc G for this important discussion.
@@YanoPratt same exact thing happened to my mom when she sought treatment for chronic depression in her 50s. It got so bad I thought the damage to her brain was permanent, but thankfully another doc weaned her off most meds and she made almost a full recovery. Really scary stuff.
Ohh my heart goes out to your Mom and you. Awful things I am learning about weaning off the psychotrops.😊 The whole US and Europe have gotten hooked on by Rx. Criminal on the part of prescribing clinicians.
I've known seriously ill paranoid schizophrenics only on one MAYBE two of those strong antipsycotic tranquilizers. Not at all fit for situational symptoms. PS hope your mom was OK. These drugs have serious side effects
I'm a licensed masters level psychotherapist in my fifth decade of providing therapy with over 60,000 hours of providing face to face counseling. Dr. Grande your observations about the benefit of therapy and the potential hazards of psychotrophic medication are SPOT ON!!! If you are a psychotherapist in training...memorize this video!!! It will serve you well. One additional comment regarding the tragic death of these children. Many people (understandably) can't comprehend how a seemingly sane person can become so out of touch with reality or become so psychotic to do something that seemingly makes no sense to themselves or their values. It is rare, but it can happen.
I experienced the sane while insane moment when I was given some kind of opioid analgesics during my last birth (I actually never asked for pain medication, I was fine, also I had contradictions for this one, I really don't know how that happened) and when they said two days later that we could go home, I asked them for one more day, because I was having like "mild" hallucinations and I didn't feel it's safe. It was like seeing reality and some veil of another things on that, really weird; I was diagnosed with dysthymia years before, but I've never experienced this before and/or after (I also for whole my life avoid all kinds of drugs, except for coffee and sugar, so it was maybe enhanced by that as well). But it kinda bothers me what might have been the alternative, if I wasn't aware that I was not ok, if I left home unsupervised. Maybe nothing in my case, but there have to be other people with other conditions that may be not that lucky. If anything, it gave me a huge respect (that's probably not exactly the right word, but I cannot find better, that would also contain the alert part of that) for strong medication of any kind.
@Dr.Grande, I've watched your videos since the beginning. You encouraged me to become a counselor. Your videos help so much. Im in my 2nd year of grad school. Thank you
As someone who experienced a medication induced psychosis after a major surgery, I know that you can appear rational and able to communicate yet have horrible things going on in your mind.
@@catherinecarmichael3180 - I’m sorry you are still affected. It was definitely a very weird experience. Fortunately, the nurses took me seriously and called my doctor. They gave me Ativan or something and that helped, plus she changed the pain med they were giving me.
I had doctors prescribe me multiple meds when I had a one year old and newborn. Thankfully my doctor listened when I said it was making me feel like a worse parent. Stories like this are so scary.
"Counselling couldn't have done any worse" is a powerful statement. Thank you for addressing the issue of how over used and overly relied on medication is.
I appreciate this sentiment, however, I have heard and seen bad therapist horror stories, ie people that unintentionally hurt the patient. The reason for all of this, the medication question, the counseling question, is that in my opinion we are in the dark ages with mental health in general. It is human experimentation, in many cases. Human beings just don’t understand mental health, and the brain. People still talk a lot about “evil”, when an unbalanced brain might be the actual culprit. We currently have huge difficulty with consistent diagnoses and cures.
Pharmaceuticals, of course, should be the last resort, and should be only prescribed as "medically necessary" on an individual bases. A therapist should have a medical degree, and knowledge that is NOT based on, or simply approved by some "new age" professor, or some socially approved idea based on some non-empirical, politically correct theory that is unhelpful to the individual or specific situation(s). This is something that was mentioned specifically in this video as a whole. No system or methodology is perfect because, in the end, an imperfect person is administering it. It's training and knowledge that informs the correct protocols. It's the unbiased peer-reviewed studies that should inform which are the best practices for both prescribed medications and counseling measures, and the effective techniques of one, the other, or both that should be implemented. This case should be the case study of this alone, and acted on according. Children died needlessly, this is the point! There is too much of both meds and pseudoscience that is presented currently as modern a "snake oil" that is the problem! This is the main point of his video!It's what he is stating without any ambiguity!!! ~ Wg Williams
Pharmaceuticals, of course, should be the last resort, and should be only prescribed as "medically necessary" on an individual bases. A therapist should have a medical degree, and knowledge that is NOT based on, or simply approved by some "new age" professor, or some socially approved idea based on some non-empirical, politically correct theory that is unhelpful to the individual or specific situation(s). This is something that was mentioned specifically in this video as a whole. No system or methodology is perfect because, in the end, an imperfect person is administering it. It's training and knowledge that informs the correct protocols. It's the unbiased peer-reviewed studies that should inform which are the best practices for both prescribed medications and counseling measures, and the effective techniques of one, the other, or both that should be implemented. This case should be the case study of this alone, and acted on according. Children died needlessly, this is the point! There is too much of both meds and pseudoscience that is presented currently as modern a "snake oil" that is the problem! This is the main point of his video!It's what he is stating without any ambiguity!!! ~ Wg Williams
You’re talking too much sense, Dr. G. The sheer amount of polypharmacy here is astonishing. What an absolutely awful situation. Those poor kids and their father. Tragic 😢
This video reminds of "classic" Dr. Grande. I've actually been looking at those videos a lot lately. I appreciate longer videos too. You get a chance to settle in and really absorb them.
this case could be sent directly to Shutter Island. the crimes are similar. the main theme of the book is the emerging predominance of the 'psychopharmacologists' over the more classically minded 'psychotherapists' which in turn replaced the 'psychosurgeons.'
As a terminal patient on pallitive care I agree. Some medication does effect your mental health. For me, it's prednisone. Depending on the dose. I've been kept alive thankfully for 58yrs but my quality of life was never stable due to my illness and the dose necessary. Luckily, I was aware and told my loved ones immediately that I am on a higher dose therefore have patience with me until I lower my dose. I am very irritated 24/7 on a dose higher than 40mg. I've been blessed in my life. Having poor health taught me to enjoy each moment. Pain and insomnia are the two things that doctors don't seem to realize how it aggravates the disease and mind. Just lack of sleep for a healthy person is debilitating. God bless you and your ability to listen to your patients.
I was so close to this being my life. My first time giving birth was really traumatic. My father died 11 days before my son was born. My husband was a Merchant Marine and in the Malaysia Strait. My mom physically assaulted me the morning after I gave birth. The Doctors diagnosed with me Bipolar even though I had no signs or symptoms of bipolar. The bipolar meds throw me into psychosis which led to intrusive thoughts of hurting my baby but I knew that wasn't right so I protected my baby from me and called anyone and everyone. I didn't get correctly diagnosed for another 3 years. Finally the fifth doctor listened to what I was saying and realized I had suffered from postpartum psychosis. She took me off all the meds except for Zoloft and gave me a blood test to chey my hormone levels. Two years later I had my second baby and never experienced postpartum after him. My oldest is now 18 and just graduated high school. I would have missed out on so much love. Don't judge just thank God you have never experienced this horrible condition.
A big problem is that everyone is aware of postpartum depression, but there is very little awareness of postpartum mania or postpartum psychosis. I had no idea what was happening with my wife after our first child. She had a C-section, so there's a chance it was medication induced. There's no way to know for sure.
Pharmaceutical, of course, should be the last resort, and should be only prescribed as "medically necessary" on an individual bases. A therapist should have a medical degree, and knowledge that is NOT based on, or simply approved by some "new age" professor, or some socially approved idea based on some non-empirical, politically correct theory that is unhelpful to the individual or specific situation(s). This is something that was mentioned specifically in this video as a whole. No system or methodology is perfect because, in the end, an imperfect person is administering it. It's training and knowledge that informs the correct protocols. It's the unbiased peer-reviewed studies that should inform which are the best practices for both prescribed medications and counseling measures, and the effective techniques of one, the other, or both that should be implemented. This case should be the case study of this alone, and acted on according. Children died needlessly, this is the point! There is too much of both meds and pseudoscience that is presented currently as modern a "snake oil" that is the problem! This is the main point of his video!It's what he is stating without any ambiguity!!! ~ Wg Williams
@@WgWilliams Unfortunately, our medical schools and also a lot of studies and research are largely funded by big pharma. It may be up to the general public to develop their own defenses against the conflict of interest within the field of mental health.
I got put on lexapro at 15 after a traumatic event in my family life, and it made everything worse for me. I experienced nausea, lack of appetite, and I slept 13+ hours a night. Then I tried Prozac, and it was better but I just didn’t feel like myself. Eventually I stopped taking SSRIs, and at 18 I found a therapist I absolutely love who helps me understand my core beliefs and what fuels my anxiety. I think doctors can be too eager to prescribe meds and patients think that meds are the answer when counseling can be just as effective, it just requires time and effort from the patient.
I'm so glad for you. I've suffered from depression since I was just 16. When prozac came out, it was a godsend. Today I am a happy and functional person. I switched to Lexapro about 5 years ago. My brain just has a chemical imbalance. I have learned to deal with this, medication has saved my life.
There's also the common medical opinion that prescribing antidepressants at any age under 25 - when the human brain is fully developed - is a risky proposition.
@catseatcookiessofiagacha5210 Some people are very suspicious of medication but it in fact is perhaps the most effective treatment for many mental health disorders.
Any time a parent is having thoughts of harming his/her kids, they shouldnt be left alone with that parent until those thoughts are effectively treated
Retired emergency medicine physician with 45 years of practice, also someone who was hospitalized for severe life threatening depression and anxiety 26 years ago: Dr Grande is a rockstar.
My brother was given Wellbutrin because he was depressed about an eye condition. Three months later, he deleted himself. We were completely shocked, until I read the journal on his computer, where he explained the effects of Wellbutrin on his health and his life. That was over 20 years ago. And FINALLY, somebody is speaking about caution! Thank you so much Dr. Grande. I do not begrudge anyone using medication when they're desperate for relief. But I have enormous doubts about big pharma, how they sell their products, how they report their "testing," the FDA, and maybe some doctors who take kick backs. Thanks for urging caution.
@@katiefrankie6 Thank you, and I'm sorry to hear that. I found several people like my brother...except it was never reported. Then I found out pharma companies have executives on the boards of major media corporations. Maybe social media will help a lot of people!
I really appreciate your discussion on pharmaceutical companies only out for money and not helping people. This is so true, and we are seeing so many unnecessary deaths because of over prescribing......
They hide behind HIPPA. Almost every school shooter was taking these drugs. 1999 was a big year for both prescription drugs and school shootings. It’s only increased since. May god have mercy on our souls..
I honestly do not trust people who want to have "enough children to fill a baseball team" and adore being pregnant seemingly more than they actually like having children. Especially if they continually fail to bond with their children and experience postpartum psychosis. I hate to say it, but I cannot trust someone who says they looooove making babies but also wishes to end her children's lives. Even though the latter is not exactly her fault, why would you want that for yourself and your children?!
The Clanceys lived a few miles from me, but my kids are much older so we were not in the same parent circle. I can attest that postpartum MH care is lacking in this area; though mass general is known for its mother-baby programs in dealing with PPD, my experience there was with a psychiatrist who gave me meds that made me stop feeling love for my baby; I stopped after a week and was told, “if you’re not willing to take meds, I don’t have any other way to help you”. Lindsay needed intensive, multi day a week therapy combined with 100% continuity of care providers, and that is very difficult to find. I wish I had known a local family was struggling - I could have helped, I would have done anything to help them.
I am now 77 and my anxiety-depressive disorder began during puberty. I’ve been on some medication all my life. I’m one of the 10% where only the medication helps. I tried going off Zoloft several years ago, not only did the depression return, I became suicidal. I’ll be on Zoloft the rest of my life.
Being on citalopram greatly changed my life for the better,too. The path to finally found the right medication for my anxiety was brutal. Citalopram is a great invention for people to finally live and see it in colours,not only a black tunnel.
I love my medication, I'm a crying wreck without it. Meds for life for me too. But its gotta be the right medication. Took about 15 years to find the right one for me.
Sometimes, by genetic chance, it is just a chemical imbalance, and the only thing that helps is having a doctor who makes educated guesses on what that particular chemical is, and how much is needed to re-balance it.
Thank you so much for your thorough analysis of both the case and the Counseling/Drug discussion. Your balanced and sometimes funny 😂 videos have become a constant part of my day.
I can relate to Lindsay's mental health downward sprial and specific treatments so well. After finally getting off all meds and getting good therapy, I had the best years of my life.
I feel so bad for her. Think about it. Three kids with anxiety about leaving her kids and going back to work. It builds up. Needing the paycheck. Pressure with kids. Maybe wanting only to be a mom and not work. More Anxiety and not dealing with true emotions. Going from Dr to Dr getting meds to make her feel better. What a terrible hole of despair and mental anguish she was likely under. The pressure TO KEEP GOING. TO KEEP EVERYTHING PERFECT. It’s really a sad story for all their families.
Pharmaceuticals, of course, should be the last resort, and should be only prescribed as "medically necessary" on an individual bases. A therapist should have a medical degree, and knowledge that is NOT based on, or simply approved by some "new age" professor, or some socially approved idea based on some non-empirical, politically correct theory that is unhelpful to the individual or specific situation(s). This is something that was mentioned specifically in this video as a whole. No system or methodology is perfect because, in the end, an imperfect person is administering it. It's training and knowledge that informs the correct protocols. It's the unbiased peer-reviewed studies that should inform which are the best practices for both prescribed medications and counseling measures, and the effective techniques of one, the other, or both that should be implemented. This case should be the case study of this alone, and acted on according. Children died needlessly, this is the point! There is too much of both meds and pseudoscience that is presented currently as modern "snake oil" that is the problem! This is the main point of his video!It's what he is stating without any ambiguity!!! ~ Wg Williams
Retired Mental Health R.N. here... our facility almost always utilized councilor/social worker first, then medical management with hospitalization, medication initiation, and medication monitoring as adjunctive treatment.
A as someone who has struggled for decades with anxiety and depression, and now see's my own daughter doing the same, cases like this breaks my heart 💔😢😢
i am with you, am 70 and have the same situaition, many times at the threshold of ending it; but have endured it, no so one of my younger brother, aunt and her siblings; the rest of her family struggling, for decades i have been treated with some medication, and some helped, others sent me to deeper problems; now, having lost that brother to suicide, and 2 others because of genetic heart problems within 2 years, i have fallen back; having a open heart surgery just before their deaths; fortunatelly, and there is me reason for responding to you, i have found the best natural remedy for both, heart issues and mental, Keto protocol and fasting, be that one day meal, 2 or even 3 or more days; please try it, many doctor in you tube, one of them dr berg, just type keto and depression or keto etc; you will find that after following the best alternative to you, you will see the most peaceful days in your life; you must endure a few setbacks, especially if you are addicted to sugars and all kind of carbs; please inform you siblings; again, no zugars nor carbs nor vegetable oils, keto fasting and moving around.... good luck
@@saraha5847 if she struggled for decades why would she have a kid? So selfish and irresponsible. Evil. Knowing how hard it is and dragging an Innocent person in the world to suffer the same fate
@@peps1943 gee, maybe it didn’t show until after she had her daughter 🤔 let’s not be so judgmental. That’s certainly something you wouldn’t say to someone’s face, I would bet. We don’t know her age or her daughter’s age. You’re assuming a lot and it’s rude. Have some class.
Dr. Grande, Your explanation of the use of therapy and medication is excellent. You, sir, are a breath of fresh air in the smog of the system. Thank you.
17:23 I have been in treatment for depression/anxiety for about 15 years now and that is one of the best ways of explaining how things are I have ever heard. I wish there were more therapists and doctors out there that actually cared like this.
I know someone who had three little kids and was seeing a psychiatrist and an MSW for 12 years for depression. He had her on the highest dose of 10 medications. Then he stopped seeing her when she was due for new scripts that she had been on for 12 years and he knew she was out of all of it. But he let her go bc she had to cancel an appt bc her husband was being taken to the hospital in an emergency and he was her ride. It was only her 3rd missed appt. In 12 years. But the law in her state says that if u miss 3 apps ever with a dr they can dump you. She had seizures and could have easily died. She was alone and went thru weeks of hell and the dr never looked back. Didn't even care.
That's happened to me. Not exactly the same story but I saw a doctor for a long time. Couldn't make a few appointments. Then they dropped me. I went through hellish withdrawals on my own and almost died. Now that I've healed I no longer am on meds. They're garbage and doctors are garbage and only in it for money. The entire mental health system is mostly fake unless you have schizophrenia.
That's not uncommon unfortunately. I had a similar situation happened to me. I was on meds for 9 years and because I missed 3 appointments I got kicked to the curb and ended up having seizures. Trying to find another practitioner that would prescribe was extremely difficult and for a couple of months I was actually having to buy them off the street just to keep from going through those horrible withdrawals. I did finally find an psychiatric LPN who was really great. I told her my situation and she helped me wean off of the Klonopin slowly. It worked too. I've been off them for 7 years and learn to deal with my anxiety via therapy and meditation. You couldn't pay me to get on those meds again. Yes they work great at first, but they cause extreme chemical dependence bc they weren't designed to be taken long-term. I just got tired of being a slave to them, and honestly the anxiety they caused from running out or just worrying about running out, was much worse than any of my natural anxiety.
Her life sounds perfect. 3 kids so her husband is obviously having good “relations” with her. She has a husband and family. And likely has a home. What is she being depressed about lol
I'm 52 now. I was hyper active as a kid. Labeled with the original a.d d. before it became a.d.d. I was definitely in a bad way. At ten years old, after years of medication and "counseling," I was removed from school for being incorrigible. After 6 months of two different psych hospitals, I was placed in a long term facility (2 years) that didn't believe in medication. They simple taught children how to behave through reward of privilege and removal of them. Thank God for that. Thank God for the salvation army in Honolulu Hawaii. I share this often in the hope that anyone who ever staffed this facility knows that I am success story. Thank you for knowing that drugs weren't the solution for so many. Thank you.
This hole has become so completely corrupted, defiled. The entire family has been wrecked because even our healthcare system has been broken. I even feel badly for the wife. It was obvious even to me, a layman, that the woman should have been taken care of, NOT drugged into a stupor.
This is the first time you've come up in my recommendations in months. And I have notifications on dang. Just glad to see you again and play catch up on your videos❤
When your neurotransmitters are misfiring, and you have a chemical imbalance in your brain, that is something that cannot be therapy’d away. That’s like telling somebody with diabetes to get counseling before they get their insulin medication and start using it. Your brain is a physical part of your body just like your gallbladder, or your pancreas, and it needs to be medicated when it is injured or not working right.
Agreed on neurochemical/neurobiologcial base of human brain and its hypersensitivity on the chemical imbalances -- many social workers don't understand this fact at all, well, they don't understand anything anyways. So, that is why, and, the only issue of it, is that, it seems no pharmaceutical manufactures on Earth can produce reliable meds for treating neurochemicals in the brain, one of the greatest challenges in human civilization.
Every individual person is unique. I have mental illness, but the best thing I did for myself was to get off of all psych medication. For me the cure was worse than the disease
Exactly. We've had therapy since the late 1890s. If therapy alone was so effective, we would have pretty much resolved most mental health issues by the time Psych Meds came into prominence during during the 1970s-1980s. To say meds are ineffective is just stupid. Therapy and Meds go hand in hand. Same thing with new neuromodulation treatments in the pipeline.
I disagree to an extent with the prescriptions being only a bandaid without providing real healing. I felt like the relief from anxiety I got by taking medication gave me the freedom to actually address the root causes of my issues.
I hadn't been to a doctor in a long time, but recently had to go due to an emergency. I was shocked at the emphasis on medications. It was all about what meds you took, which new ones you needed, etc.
I agree i had an emergency and the dr and nurses could not believe at my age (57) that i only took vitamins. And there i was looking at them like they were drug dealers. Lol 😮
Yep. How many of these crime videos have medication as a component? Especially kids/teens being medicated and then snapping. There should be national alarm and investigation. The pharmaceutical companies & doctors need to be held accountable. How are we as a nation so medicated yet never more sicker or mental unstable? 😢
Can't appreciate enough of this longer video and its deep analysis on counselling, psychiatric medications and mental health! These information can't be found anywhere. It is a treasure for me! Every sentence and point presented align with those of mine. Now I know I am not alone with these understandings. If this content can be viewed by the world, it would be a great educational opportunity to level up general population's and mental health professionals' understanding the significance of these issues in this field.
The medication makes me slightly sympathetic towards a psychotic break but I’m drawn back to the internet searches and the errands she sent husband on.
This incredibly tragic case hits a nerve for me. I was diagnosed with OCD when I was a teenager and had managed it relatively well before I had my first child. After my first son was born, it was the scariest time of my life. Postpartum OCD coupled with hormone fluctuations clouded the weeks following his birth and I needed a couple stints of in patient care to get on the correct medication, be paired with a wonderful therapist, and for my hormones to stabilize. I had a similar experience after my second son was born, though I knew what to expect. My situation is obviously different from this case but maternal mental health needs to be taken more seriously than it is. I was blindsided by my symptoms the first time and I'm lucky to have had all around good mental health care to get me through those crises. That is, unfortunately, not everyone's experience.
No I believe it's a man who coordinated the murders with her in my home state, I never hear anyone else say this so I am going to shout from the rooftop, WHY DID HE ONLY PICK UP A MEAL FOR TWO?
@@ang_ro I think they were practicing Catholics, he is not going to divorce her if he believes in sickness and in health. He didn't marry a monster, I think it was the illness she was experiencing on top of the 13 SSRIs she was put on. Poor Patrick, hopefully he is able to find the best healing from this nightmare.
@@EasrterRising1fan Religion. Oof. Regardless of the reason she did it, she k*lled their 3 kids. Bible says do not k*ll. He should get a pass on divorce in this instance. How do you forgive something like this. I guess I just don't understand.
This was an excellent video and I really appreciate all the information that you gave, as well as your opinions on everything. I suffered horribly from PPD and since it went untreated it came to a head when my son was actually 6 years old! I was unaware that if it’s left untreated that it can last for years. It started with crying. A lot of crying…for no reason. That causes anxiety & confusion because I didn’t know why I would just break out in tears at any given time. As time went on I just kept telling myself that it was normal and I just needed to focus on being a new mother and trying to do that to the best of my abilities. But it progressed to a point where I was close to becoming agoraphobic. I had panic attacks, I couldn’t drive near any bodies of water or over any big bridges because I felt like I was going to flip the car and drown from getting stuck upside down in a river or lake. The panic attacks were becoming more frequent and my appetite died. I was sure that I was a horrible mother and that I wasn’t doing anything correctly. I stopped sleeping because I thought I’d have night terrors and hurt my son in my sleep. Then I was afraid I’d hurt him while alone with him… just because I was having these horrible thoughts of stabbing him. So to stay awake and fight that urge to kill my sweet & innocent child I would put on home movies of him and watch them all night while rocking back and forth in my chair and humming “twinkle twinkle little star” over and over. It was the only way I could get the feeling of panic to settle down a bit. And the worst part of it all was that I didn’t tell anyone about what was going on. My husband and mother knew something was wrong. I mean I would call my mom and ask her to drive me anywhere I needed to go even though I had a license and no excuse to keep from driving myself. She lived 40 mins away and wouldn’t question me..she would just say yes and come pick me and my son up to go run my errands. And my husband just tried to keep me sane the best way he could without knowing exactly what was wrong with me. But I thought that if I told anyone what was happening they would take my son away from me or they would lock me up. Finally I confided in my GP. And begged him to keep it to himself and not report me to CPS. Thank god he was a good man and an excellent doctor. He asked me a bunch of questions and finally told me that he was positive I had PPD. He explained that if it goes untreated it can actually last for years…yes 6 whole years! He immediately got me in with a psychiatrist and from that point on I was receiving treatment for the PPD…both medication and therapy. I did have to go through some medication changes….but not anywhere near 13 different meds!! 😮 Anyway, the PPD was successfully treated and today my “baby boy” is 31 years old. And now I tell all new mothers (that I know personally) my story and try to educate them on getting help. I let them know they don’t need to be afraid to reach out to their doctor, because PPD is very real and it’s treatable. If you stuck around long enough to read this, thank you and god bless. 😊❤
I like listening to your stuff. You have kind of a relaxing voice, sometimes i listen as I'm trying to go to sleep :) not trying to imply your stories are boring, you just have a relaxing voice and manner of speaking.
Engaging comment. I have witnessed awful, aggressive behavior from normally civil men after too much alcohol. Not just drunk, but calculated aggression with words and actions. Could not the mother been so much out of her mind that irrationality took her over? A good comparison with Joseph Emerson? That was premeditated to some degree and very focused in action. Difference was very fortunately, lack of success on his part. Along with lingering feelings of condemning the mother here, those feelings also regard the people prescribing all the medication, apparently recklessly. Why not let’s talk about them or the apparent problem in general?
yea very sad to see all those doctors who doped her up probably never caringly listened once, and only seen a cash cow for their pill sponsorship.....I've been through it off and on for almost 10 years, and still never felt like anyone I ever met actually cared, or even could actually begin to understand the delicate human neuro circuit.... Almost NO ONE listened when I would say most all medicines I HAVE EVER took made me worse in one way or another....with caplytata sending me into a same day psychosis...
@@deanneuburger3869. I’m in the recovery community, and study substance use disorders. I’ve, personally, seen people in stimulant psychosis for prolonged periods. People who are in psychosis for longer periods of time, or have repeated episodes over time,, can develop complex delusions. I would assume they could also be capable of making plans for how to react to what they think is happening during these episodes. In my opinion, the legal definition of insanity doesn’t cover everything that meets the textbook definition. For example, I’ve seen someone who thought police were cutting a hole in his wall go to great lengths to hide his substance use from the intruders. He knew he was engaged in illegal behavior, and took steps to conceal it. However, he could not be said to be sane. There were no police, anywhere around him. No one was trying to apprehend him. I think it’s possible for people in psychosis to know the police wouldn’t approve of violent behavior, but still believe it’s absolutely necessary. I don’t know if the woman in this case tried to cover up her crime. I’m just using that as an example. The person I knew had elaborate means of hiding substances, which took planning. This may be more relevant to the case at hand. Edit: Please excuse the wonky punctuation. I can’t see or edit on my device. 😬
That was just soo sad, so many drugs in such a short time, also, any anxiety drug takes at least 6 weeks to kick in. How on earth how she could have been monitored appropriately on the multiple drugs she was taking.
Valium and klonpin would have been something she felt instantly. I was on Valium for a brief period and it made me feel drunk and I could hardly keep my eyes open. I don’t know why they would have her on both
That’s the basic truth of this whole situation. It doesn’t matter whether it was murder or psychosis. She killed 3 little children, so she must be removed from the general public.
Absolutely agree. I can't get past the facts of this case. No other murdering parent has ever been treated with the sympathy that Lindsay Clancy has received. That is just not fair.
I was in a drug recovery program & they would send 5 of us at a time to the psychotherapist across the street. I really wanted help BUT after talking about what was going on in my life, I asked what she thought? She straightened herself up & said; "Everybody else was in & out of here, got a script & was gone within 15- 20 minutes & you've been talking for 45 minutes, you'll need to come back again". I got arrested & after 5 years locked up & bumping my head a couple times; I've been sober 10 years! God worked for me so I try to work for Him!
Finally someone willing to discuss this case. I wanted to see the law & medical view on this case and the man who unalived his three children. How they differ and same.
I agree counseling is preferable but sometimes in severe depression episodes medication needs to be prescribed immediately. I had an episode once wherein I couldnt sleep, taste food, work, function at all. I was no danger to anyone else nor psychotic but very suic*dal. Medication saved me. Within a week I was eating, sleeping and functioning again. Fortunately they gave me the "correct" drug to help me. It's a gamble for others. But sometimes it truly is necessary to reset your brain.
I like having a different format for the updates! Great idea! It’s interesting to have you speak a little more informally and I like that I can tell the difference between the update and the original video.
I have many questions like, if hormones are always fluctuating and she was on so many meds, how could they say she doesn’t have postpartum depression? When does postpartum depression end and psychosis begin?
In my opinion, not connecting with a therapist is nothing more than a personality conflict. Certain people bond and others do not. She should have reached out to another therapist.
It can be a lot more than that. I know someone who has traits consistent with Cluster B who leaves any provider that doesn’t say what she wants to hear, agree with the narrative she wants, give her the prescriptions she wants, etc. She just hops to the next one until she finds someone she can control or who believes her bs and, because of that, she’s gotten so much worse and will likely spend the remainder of her life getting exponentially worse.
they tried to perscibe me seriquill, that crap had me sleep for days on end. I couldnt believe how strong that stuff was, and not in a good way, I did not need it.
I was diagnosed with bipolar 1 and was prescribed abilify, trazadone and Wellbutrin all at the same time. After a month I developed akathisia. I consulted two separate physicians and the NP who prescribed me the meds. Every single one basically said they couldn’t do anything for me, and were against me discontinuing my meds. The NP was even hostile to the idea to the point of arguing with me. I did not follow their advice and discontinued the meds on my own, and the akathisia went away after about 3 weeks. I was my own best advocate, both in education and in decision making, when it came to taking those meds, not the physicians. My talk therapist, on the other hand, helped me tremendously and I am so grateful for the work her and I did together.
@@josebro352 A physical disability/impairment does not preclude criminal responsibility. Plenty of disabled people get prosecuted and sent to prison with accommodations made to make prison more accessible to them. Just because we don't hear about them, doesn't mean they're not out there.
Great video. I was on head meds for years and they turned me into a zombie. They allowed me to dodge accountability. Once I got sober (15 years ago) I rebuilt my life and haven't been on any since. When I chose to become accountable, I began feeling good about myself. Talk therapy and counselling helped immensely. Most things that we label "mental health problems" are actually spiritual problems. Also, the 12 steps do work. We are quick to refuse the time tested old fashioned remedies because they are often difficult; they require guts and perseverance.
She prob realized killing yourself isn’t that easy, that’s why the wounds were superficial. There was a woman in Massachusetts shortly after this happened that killed herself after giving birth to twins.
As someone who’s struggled With poly-substance abuse my entire adult life.. YOU ABSOLUTELY CANT BLAME THE DRUGS FOR KILLING SOMEONE. ESPECIALLY SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO BE YOUR FLIPPING KIDS!? THE AUDACITY… It’s actually sickening that the dad would take her side. He should really be ashamed. Guy needs to move on. She completely destroyed your entire family. It’s time to let her go dude.
I was in the same corner where all I ever got was new meds. All which had major side effects, to the point that I took a stance and said that I wouldn't touch another pill. The doctor took that as a "you don't want to be helped" and they stopped trying to help me.
I love this format. I like your composed videos and puns too but this is a nice complement. As a former mental health practitioner, it’s nice to hear your takes on the professional side of things.
15:48 ❤ I absolutely love this and wish there were more therapist out there who operated like this! There's plenty of people who would line up around the block to see someone who intended to help them "Fix" the problem, instead of stringing them along for years! Word travels pretty fast when you find a good doctor, dentist, veterinarian, masseuse...
Appreciate the update. Anxiety can be upsetting, drugs usually exacerbate mental health esp when taking so many/mixing, yes hate the 💊 pushing😑Thanks Dr G💖💖
@@maryrichardson6029 Not sure what those are. Of course meds work for some, not what I was saying, just they can be dangerous overall and make things worse. Dr G had great points.
Oh, Dr. Grande, I've had so many bad therapists that I don't even know where to start. There was the one who violated my confidentiality, the one who told me in-depth stories about her former clients, the one who shrieked at me and kicked me out of her office when I politely asked her not to call me my birthname, the one who asked leeringly if I was promiscuous, the one who said that with my nascent understanding of sex, only a pedophile would ever want to sleep with me, the one who accused me of being suicidal when I was actually in a freaking great mood (up until then, anyway), the one who rejected me and seemed terrified of my problems after I outlined them for her (even though she'd been my campus counselor for five years), and several who laughed when I told them my trauma and said, "Your parents were trying to discipline you. Get over yourself." There are bad therapists out there. I think the good ones aren't the norm, assuming they exist. (I gave up searching. Now I read self-help books.)
Exactly. I feel Dr. Grande might be slightly biased, given his background as a clinical psychologist. There exists shitty psychiatrists and shitty psychologists/therapists. Shitty people don't exist just in one location.
Good grief. Its right there!! The ROOT CAUSE of her anxiety was ...leaving her 3 little children to be raised by other women in Day Care ...... while she worked.
@@soniachambers6460 I suppose they both agreed she would have to work to pay the bills. If she had quit working after calling the Police after seeing her daughter cry on camera ....none of the rest would have ever happened.
My 83 year old mother was overprescribed drugs during the past year and almost died before we figured out what was happening. Docs kept adjusting dosages for a medical condition and then treated the side effects with more and more meds. She ended up basically a drug addict before we realized it, for side effects that included serious mental conditions. A new physician eventually weaned her, a traumatic and dramatic process for one so old, and thankfully doing better now, off almost all drugs. Thanks Doc G for this important discussion.
@@YanoPratt same exact thing happened to my mom when she sought treatment for chronic depression in her 50s. It got so bad I thought the damage to her brain was permanent, but thankfully another doc weaned her off most meds and she made almost a full recovery. Really scary stuff.
Same thing is happening right now w my brother and uncle. They think people come in their homes at night and move things around.
Ohh my heart goes out to your Mom and you. Awful things I am learning about weaning off the psychotrops.😊
The whole US and Europe have gotten hooked on by Rx. Criminal on the part of prescribing clinicians.
I've known seriously ill paranoid schizophrenics only on one MAYBE two of those strong antipsycotic tranquilizers. Not at all fit for situational symptoms. PS hope your mom was OK. These drugs have serious side effects
So sorry to hear this but so glad some alert, caring people noticed and took action. Sending comfort and gratitude to all.
I'm a licensed masters level psychotherapist in my fifth decade of providing therapy with over 60,000 hours of providing face to face counseling. Dr. Grande your observations about the benefit of therapy and the potential hazards of psychotrophic medication are SPOT ON!!! If you are a psychotherapist in training...memorize this video!!! It will serve you well. One additional comment regarding the tragic death of these children. Many people (understandably) can't comprehend how a seemingly sane person can become so out of touch with reality or become so psychotic to do something that seemingly makes no sense to themselves or their values. It is rare, but it can happen.
Thank you for your kind compassionate comment.
I experienced the sane while insane moment when I was given some kind of opioid analgesics during my last birth (I actually never asked for pain medication, I was fine, also I had contradictions for this one, I really don't know how that happened) and when they said two days later that we could go home, I asked them for one more day, because I was having like "mild" hallucinations and I didn't feel it's safe. It was like seeing reality and some veil of another things on that, really weird; I was diagnosed with dysthymia years before, but I've never experienced this before and/or after (I also for whole my life avoid all kinds of drugs, except for coffee and sugar, so it was maybe enhanced by that as well). But it kinda bothers me what might have been the alternative, if I wasn't aware that I was not ok, if I left home unsupervised. Maybe nothing in my case, but there have to be other people with other conditions that may be not that lucky. If anything, it gave me a huge respect (that's probably not exactly the right word, but I cannot find better, that would also contain the alert part of that) for strong medication of any kind.
He is licensed . He stopped because he became a social media millionaire
@Dr.Grande, I've watched your videos since the beginning. You encouraged me to become a counselor. Your videos help so much. Im in my 2nd year of grad school. Thank you
🎉
Yay🎉 how cool! Congrats
As someone who experienced a medication induced psychosis after a major surgery, I know that you can appear rational and able to communicate yet have horrible things going on in your mind.
I did too!!! I have never met anyone who has.
I still have PTSD over it.
Agree 100 %
@@catherinecarmichael3180 - I’m sorry you are still affected. It was definitely a very weird experience. Fortunately, the nurses took me seriously and called my doctor. They gave me Ativan or something and that helped, plus she changed the pain med they were giving me.
@@catherinecarmichael3180 was it pain meds? Something similar happened to my mother. It was scary for all of us, we didn’t understand.
I have, too, from prednisone. Very scary!
I had doctors prescribe me multiple meds when I had a one year old and newborn. Thankfully my doctor listened when I said it was making me feel like a worse parent. Stories like this are so scary.
"Counselling couldn't have done any worse" is a powerful statement.
Thank you for addressing the issue of how over used and overly relied on medication is.
I appreciate this sentiment, however, I have heard and seen bad therapist horror stories, ie people that unintentionally hurt the patient. The reason for all of this, the medication question, the counseling question, is that in my opinion we are in the dark ages with mental health in general. It is human experimentation, in many cases. Human beings just don’t understand mental health, and the brain. People still talk a lot about “evil”, when an unbalanced brain might be the actual culprit. We currently have huge difficulty with consistent diagnoses and cures.
Pharmaceuticals, of course, should be the last resort, and should be only prescribed as "medically necessary" on an individual bases. A therapist should have a medical degree, and knowledge that is NOT based on, or simply approved by some "new age" professor, or some socially approved idea based on some non-empirical, politically correct theory that is unhelpful to the individual or specific situation(s).
This is something that was mentioned specifically in this video as a whole. No system or methodology is perfect because, in the end, an imperfect person is administering it. It's training and knowledge that informs the correct protocols.
It's the unbiased peer-reviewed studies that should inform which are the best practices for both prescribed medications and counseling measures, and the effective techniques of one, the other, or both that should be implemented. This case should be the case study of this alone, and acted on according. Children died needlessly, this is the point!
There is too much of both meds and pseudoscience that is presented currently as modern a "snake oil" that is the problem! This is the main point of his video!It's what he is stating without any ambiguity!!!
~ Wg Williams
Pharmaceuticals, of course, should be the last resort, and should be only prescribed as "medically necessary" on an individual bases. A therapist should have a medical degree, and knowledge that is NOT based on, or simply approved by some "new age" professor, or some socially approved idea based on some non-empirical, politically correct theory that is unhelpful to the individual or specific situation(s).
This is something that was mentioned specifically in this video as a whole. No system or methodology is perfect because, in the end, an imperfect person is administering it. It's training and knowledge that informs the correct protocols.
It's the unbiased peer-reviewed studies that should inform which are the best practices for both prescribed medications and counseling measures, and the effective techniques of one, the other, or both that should be implemented. This case should be the case study of this alone, and acted on according. Children died needlessly, this is the point!
There is too much of both meds and pseudoscience that is presented currently as modern a "snake oil" that is the problem! This is the main point of his video!It's what he is stating without any ambiguity!!!
~ Wg Williams
Especially when those also degrade and subdue awareness and conciousness and by trauma and/or into ignorance of the intuitive truths?
You’re talking too much sense, Dr. G.
The sheer amount of polypharmacy here is astonishing. What an absolutely awful situation. Those poor kids and their father. Tragic 😢
And the Mom. Could you imagine the horror?
I really like this informal chat kind of video. Feels more personal and natural
I was just about to comment this. Hope Dr Grande keeps these updates going, I love this
Both are great in diff ways!
Also easy to recognize it’ll be an ‘update’ type video 😊
Me too. I also have the impression that Dr Grande is returning to a more in-depth professional-psychological view of the people involved. I like that.
@@Cerbera66 me too. We like this, Dr. G. Keep it up man!
This video reminds of "classic" Dr. Grande. I've actually been looking at those videos a lot lately. I appreciate longer videos too. You get a chance to settle in and really absorb them.
As a primary care physician with 43 years experience, I can say with great assurance, there are many many truths in this episode.
this case could be sent directly to Shutter Island. the crimes are similar. the main theme of the book is the emerging predominance of the 'psychopharmacologists' over the more classically minded 'psychotherapists' which in turn replaced the 'psychosurgeons.'
As a terminal patient on pallitive care I agree. Some medication does effect your mental health. For me, it's prednisone. Depending on the dose. I've been kept alive thankfully for 58yrs but my quality of life was never stable due to my illness and the dose necessary. Luckily, I was aware and told my loved ones immediately that I am on a higher dose therefore have patience with me until I lower my dose. I am very irritated 24/7 on a dose higher than 40mg. I've been blessed in my life. Having poor health taught me to enjoy each moment. Pain and insomnia are the two things that doctors don't seem to realize how it aggravates the disease and mind. Just lack of sleep for a healthy person is debilitating. God bless you and your ability to listen to your patients.
Lindsey predicted that she could do this sort of thing. What's her Family history? Nobody likes to take it there. To honest.
I couldn't agree more
Talk about how those drugs make aims people go insane.
They are poison to so many people.
Generally the younger the person the crazier they make them.
I was so close to this being my life. My first time giving birth was really traumatic. My father died 11 days before my son was born. My husband was a Merchant Marine and in the Malaysia Strait. My mom physically assaulted me the morning after I gave birth. The Doctors diagnosed with me Bipolar even though I had no signs or symptoms of bipolar. The bipolar meds throw me into psychosis which led to intrusive thoughts of hurting my baby but I knew that wasn't right so I protected my baby from me and called anyone and everyone. I didn't get correctly diagnosed for another 3 years. Finally the fifth doctor listened to what I was saying and realized I had suffered from postpartum psychosis. She took me off all the meds except for Zoloft and gave me a blood test to chey my hormone levels. Two years later I had my second baby and never experienced postpartum after him. My oldest is now 18 and just graduated high school. I would have missed out on so much love. Don't judge just thank God you have never experienced this horrible condition.
Thanks for sharing your experience 💗💗💗
@@Chickwithpinkhair did you take the Zoloft while you were pregnant with your second? I'm glad you are okay
Thank you for sharing and being honest about your story bc these things happen and need to be talked about with zero stigma
A big problem is that everyone is aware of postpartum depression, but there is very little awareness of postpartum mania or postpartum psychosis. I had no idea what was happening with my wife after our first child. She had a C-section, so there's a chance it was medication induced. There's no way to know for sure.
"There's no side effects from counselling"? Really? A bad therapist will turn your life upside down.
That's true. There's some horrible advice being dished out.
Yes, especially when your mind is disordered in some way - it becomes way harder to know what advice to trust.
@@LeftoverPuppiesExcellent point.
Pharmaceutical, of course, should be the last resort, and should be only prescribed as "medically necessary" on an individual bases. A therapist should have a medical degree, and knowledge that is NOT based on, or simply approved by some "new age" professor, or some socially approved idea based on some non-empirical, politically correct theory that is unhelpful to the individual or specific situation(s).
This is something that was mentioned specifically in this video as a whole. No system or methodology is perfect because, in the end, an imperfect person is administering it. It's training and knowledge that informs the correct protocols.
It's the unbiased peer-reviewed studies that should inform which are the best practices for both prescribed medications and counseling measures, and the effective techniques of one, the other, or both that should be implemented. This case should be the case study of this alone, and acted on according. Children died needlessly, this is the point!
There is too much of both meds and pseudoscience that is presented currently as modern a "snake oil" that is the problem! This is the main point of his video!It's what he is stating without any ambiguity!!!
~ Wg Williams
@@WgWilliams Unfortunately, our medical schools and also a lot of studies and research are largely funded by big pharma. It may be up to the general public to develop their own defenses against the conflict of interest within the field of mental health.
I got put on lexapro at 15 after a traumatic event in my family life, and it made everything worse for me. I experienced nausea, lack of appetite, and I slept 13+ hours a night. Then I tried Prozac, and it was better but I just didn’t feel like myself. Eventually I stopped taking SSRIs, and at 18 I found a therapist I absolutely love who helps me understand my core beliefs and what fuels my anxiety. I think doctors can be too eager to prescribe meds and patients think that meds are the answer when counseling can be just as effective, it just requires time and effort from the patient.
I'm so glad for you. I've suffered from depression since I was just 16. When prozac came out, it was a godsend. Today I am a happy and functional person. I switched to Lexapro about 5 years ago. My brain just has a chemical imbalance. I have learned to deal with this, medication has saved my life.
@@catseatcookiessofiagacha5210Same, but my help of choice was Paxil. It saved my life.
There's also the common medical opinion that prescribing antidepressants at any age under 25 - when the human brain is fully developed - is a risky proposition.
I know exactly why I'm prone to depression and I will be on antidepressants for the rest of my life. Thank you. 😊
@catseatcookiessofiagacha5210 Some people are very suspicious of medication but it in fact is perhaps the most effective treatment for many mental health disorders.
Any time a parent is having thoughts of harming his/her kids, they shouldnt be left alone with that parent until those thoughts are effectively treated
Retired emergency medicine physician with 45 years of practice, also someone who was hospitalized for severe life threatening depression and anxiety 26 years ago: Dr Grande is a rockstar.
Dr Grande giving us some serious doctoral advice here.
Very interesting, informative, and much needed.
My brother was given Wellbutrin because he was depressed about an eye condition. Three months later, he deleted himself. We were completely shocked, until I read the journal on his computer, where he explained the effects of Wellbutrin on his health and his life. That was over 20 years ago. And FINALLY, somebody is speaking about caution! Thank you so much Dr. Grande. I do not begrudge anyone using medication when they're desperate for relief. But I have enormous doubts about big pharma, how they sell their products, how they report their "testing," the FDA, and maybe some doctors who take kick backs. Thanks for urging caution.
A colleague of my mom had something similar happen - hugely tragic. I’m so sorry that happened to your brother and your family.
@@katiefrankie6 Thank you, and I'm sorry to hear that. I found several people like my brother...except it was never reported. Then I found out pharma companies have executives on the boards of major media corporations. Maybe social media will help a lot of people!
Sorry for your loss.😔🙏❤️❤️❤️
I really appreciate your discussion on pharmaceutical companies only out for money and not helping people. This is so true, and we are seeing so many unnecessary deaths because of over prescribing......
They hide behind HIPPA.
Almost every school shooter was taking these drugs.
1999 was a big year for both prescription drugs and school shootings. It’s only increased since.
May god have mercy on our souls..
Companies are for money not just Phamacuticle lol. Why it's call business.
It’s true I lost over 10+ veterans 😢
From a corrupt VA DOCTOR
@@kingmaafa120May they all rest in peace.😔🙏❤️
Keep having children with that issue unresolved didn't help either. What a tragedy.
I honestly do not trust people who want to have "enough children to fill a baseball team" and adore being pregnant seemingly more than they actually like having children.
Especially if they continually fail to bond with their children and experience postpartum psychosis. I hate to say it, but I cannot trust someone who says they looooove making babies but also wishes to end her children's lives. Even though the latter is not exactly her fault, why would you want that for yourself and your children?!
@@joywagner979 Having psychosis means that you are not thinking rationally.
Reminds me a lot of the Andrea Yates case
Dr. Grande, the explanation of the difference between counseling and taking medication was awesome. Thank you for another fantastic video
13 medications within under a year is WILD
Facts
I certainly don't want to share that experience.
This setting reflects the severity and serious nature of the topic at hand. I appreciate it.
The Clanceys lived a few miles from me, but my kids are much older so we were not in the same parent circle. I can attest that postpartum MH care is lacking in this area; though mass general is known for its mother-baby programs in dealing with PPD, my experience there was with a psychiatrist who gave me meds that made me stop feeling love for my baby; I stopped after a week and was told, “if you’re not willing to take meds, I don’t have any other way to help you”. Lindsay needed intensive, multi day a week therapy combined with 100% continuity of care providers, and that is very difficult to find. I wish I had known a local family was struggling - I could have helped, I would have done anything to help them.
I have to hear the “Just a reminder I’m not diagnosing…” but I LOVE the new relaxed approach. We need both.
He’s occasionally returning to the more informal tone reminiscent of his circa 2019-2020 talks, which I actually liked.
I am now 77 and my anxiety-depressive disorder began during puberty. I’ve been on some medication all my life. I’m one of the 10% where only the medication helps. I tried going off Zoloft several years ago, not only did the depression return, I became suicidal. I’ll be on Zoloft the rest of my life.
I’ll be on Paxil for the entire ride. I get it.
Being on citalopram greatly changed my life for the better,too. The path to finally found the right medication for my anxiety was brutal. Citalopram is a great invention for people to finally live and see it in colours,not only a black tunnel.
I love my medication, I'm a crying wreck without it. Meds for life for me too. But its gotta be the right medication. Took about 15 years to find the right one for me.
Same
Sometimes, by genetic chance, it is just a chemical imbalance, and the only thing that helps is having a doctor who makes educated guesses on what that particular chemical is, and how much is needed to re-balance it.
Thank you so much for your thorough analysis of both the case and the Counseling/Drug discussion. Your balanced and sometimes funny 😂 videos have become a constant part of my day.
I can relate to Lindsay's mental health downward sprial and specific treatments so well. After finally getting off all meds and getting good therapy, I had the best years of my life.
I feel so bad for her. Think about it. Three kids with anxiety about leaving her kids and going back to work. It builds up. Needing the paycheck. Pressure with kids. Maybe wanting only to be a mom and not work. More Anxiety and not dealing with true emotions. Going from Dr to Dr getting meds to make her feel better. What a terrible hole of despair and mental anguish she was likely under. The pressure TO KEEP GOING. TO KEEP EVERYTHING PERFECT. It’s really a sad story for all their families.
She's also paralyzed now from jumping out the window. It's all so sad
Fuck you you feel bad for her. I feel bad for the three helpless children she murdered.
Also, this video shows the passion Dr. Grande has for mental health treatments.
Good afternoon Dr. Grande, thank you for your informative update on this tragic case.
Pharmaceuticals, of course, should be the last resort, and should be only prescribed as "medically necessary" on an individual bases. A therapist should have a medical degree, and knowledge that is NOT based on, or simply approved by some "new age" professor, or some socially approved idea based on some non-empirical, politically correct theory that is unhelpful to the individual or specific situation(s).
This is something that was mentioned specifically in this video as a whole. No system or methodology is perfect because, in the end, an imperfect person is administering it. It's training and knowledge that informs the correct protocols.
It's the unbiased peer-reviewed studies that should inform which are the best practices for both prescribed medications and counseling measures, and the effective techniques of one, the other, or both that should be implemented. This case should be the case study of this alone, and acted on according. Children died needlessly, this is the point!
There is too much of both meds and pseudoscience that is presented currently as modern "snake oil" that is the problem! This is the main point of his video!It's what he is stating without any ambiguity!!!
~ Wg Williams
Retired Mental Health R.N. here... our facility almost always utilized councilor/social worker first, then medical management with hospitalization, medication initiation, and medication monitoring as adjunctive treatment.
I do think the number of drugs in such a time frame was a factor in her being able to control her behavior
i think so too
A as someone who has struggled for decades with anxiety and depression, and now see's my own daughter doing the same, cases like this breaks my heart 💔😢😢
i am with you, am 70 and have the same situaition, many times at the threshold of ending it; but have endured it, no so one of my younger brother, aunt and her siblings; the rest of her family struggling, for decades i have been treated with some medication, and some helped, others sent me to deeper problems; now, having lost that brother to suicide, and 2 others because of genetic heart problems within 2 years, i have fallen back; having a open heart surgery just before their deaths; fortunatelly, and there is me reason for responding to you, i have found the best natural remedy for both, heart issues and mental, Keto protocol and fasting, be that one day meal, 2 or even 3 or more days; please try it, many doctor in you tube, one of them dr berg, just type keto and depression or keto etc; you will find that after following the best alternative to you, you will see the most peaceful days in your life; you must endure a few setbacks, especially if you are addicted to sugars and all kind of carbs; please inform you siblings; again, no zugars nor carbs nor vegetable oils, keto fasting and moving around.... good luck
Sounds extremely selfish to do to your daughter smh
@@peps1943her daughter suffers from anxiety and depression, how is she being selfish? She sounds like a sad and concerned mother. 😢
@@saraha5847 if she struggled for decades why would she have a kid? So selfish and irresponsible. Evil. Knowing how hard it is and dragging an Innocent person in the world to suffer the same fate
@@peps1943 gee, maybe it didn’t show until after she had her daughter 🤔 let’s not be so judgmental. That’s certainly something you wouldn’t say to someone’s face, I would bet. We don’t know her age or her daughter’s age. You’re assuming a lot and it’s rude. Have some class.
I’m loving this more informal Update video Dr. Grande. It makes me feel like we’re sitting somewhere having coffee and talking about case updates.
Dr. Grande,
Your explanation of the use of therapy and medication is excellent. You, sir, are a breath of fresh air in the smog of the system. Thank you.
Well said.
17:23 I have been in treatment for depression/anxiety for about 15 years now and that is one of the best ways of explaining how things are I have ever heard. I wish there were more therapists and doctors out there that actually cared like this.
I know someone who had three little kids and was seeing a psychiatrist and an MSW for 12 years for depression. He had her on the highest dose of 10 medications. Then he stopped seeing her when she was due for new scripts that she had been on for 12 years and he knew she was out of all of it. But he let her go bc she had to cancel an appt bc her husband was being taken to the hospital in an emergency and he was her ride. It was only her 3rd missed appt. In 12 years. But the law in her state says that if u miss 3 apps ever with a dr they can dump you. She had seizures and could have easily died. She was alone and went thru weeks of hell and the dr never looked back. Didn't even care.
That's happened to me. Not exactly the same story but I saw a doctor for a long time. Couldn't make a few appointments. Then they dropped me. I went through hellish withdrawals on my own and almost died. Now that I've healed I no longer am on meds. They're garbage and doctors are garbage and only in it for money. The entire mental health system is mostly fake unless you have schizophrenia.
Shocking . Poor women.
I went through the same exact thing
I'm 70yrs.old and I thought I was going to die.
That's not uncommon unfortunately. I had a similar situation happened to me. I was on meds for 9 years and because I missed 3 appointments I got kicked to the curb and ended up having seizures. Trying to find another practitioner that would prescribe was extremely difficult and for a couple of months I was actually having to buy them off the street just to keep from going through those horrible withdrawals. I did finally find an psychiatric LPN who was really great. I told her my situation and she helped me wean off of the Klonopin slowly. It worked too. I've been off them for 7 years and learn to deal with my anxiety via therapy and meditation. You couldn't pay me to get on those meds again. Yes they work great at first, but they cause extreme chemical dependence bc they weren't designed to be taken long-term. I just got tired of being a slave to them, and honestly the anxiety they caused from running out or just worrying about running out, was much worse than any of my natural anxiety.
Her life sounds perfect. 3 kids so her husband is obviously having good “relations” with her. She has a husband and family. And likely has a home. What is she being depressed about lol
Thank you Dr. Grande for this thoughtful look at this case. This poor family, so tragic!
I'm 52 now. I was hyper active as a kid. Labeled with the original a.d d. before it became a.d.d. I was definitely in a bad way. At ten years old, after years of medication and "counseling," I was removed from school for being incorrigible. After 6 months of two different psych hospitals, I was placed in a long term facility (2 years) that didn't believe in medication. They simple taught children how to behave through reward of privilege and removal of them. Thank God for that. Thank God for the salvation army in Honolulu Hawaii. I share this often in the hope that anyone who ever staffed this facility knows that I am success story. Thank you for knowing that drugs weren't the solution for so many. Thank you.
This hole has become so completely corrupted, defiled. The entire family has been wrecked because even our healthcare system has been broken. I even feel badly for the wife. It was obvious even to me, a layman, that the woman should have been taken care of, NOT drugged into a stupor.
This is the first time you've come up in my recommendations in months. And I have notifications on dang. Just glad to see you again and play catch up on your videos❤
Very insightful and thought provoking Dr. Grande; I love this new format.
I definitely love the more "off the script" kind of videos! I love your videos either way, but the change is nice!
When your neurotransmitters are misfiring, and you have a chemical imbalance in your brain, that is something that cannot be therapy’d away. That’s like telling somebody with diabetes to get counseling before they get their insulin medication and start using it. Your brain is a physical part of your body just like your gallbladder, or your pancreas, and it needs to be medicated when it is injured or not working right.
The medications need to be appropriate
Agreed on neurochemical/neurobiologcial base of human brain and its hypersensitivity on the chemical imbalances -- many social workers don't understand this fact at all, well, they don't understand anything anyways. So, that is why, and, the only issue of it, is that, it seems no pharmaceutical manufactures on Earth can produce reliable meds for treating neurochemicals in the brain, one of the greatest challenges in human civilization.
People that don't understand mental illness will never understand .😢
Every individual person is unique. I have mental illness, but the best thing I did for myself was to get off of all psych medication. For me the cure was worse than the disease
Exactly. We've had therapy since the late 1890s. If therapy alone was so effective, we would have pretty much resolved most mental health issues by the time Psych Meds came into prominence during during the 1970s-1980s.
To say meds are ineffective is just stupid. Therapy and Meds go hand in hand. Same thing with new neuromodulation treatments in the pipeline.
I disagree to an extent with the prescriptions being only a bandaid without providing real healing. I felt like the relief from anxiety I got by taking medication gave me the freedom to actually address the root causes of my issues.
Absolutely the same in my case.
Everyone reacts differently and it’s never a good idea to take meds without therapy. As a therapeutic protocol.
so it was a bandaid that allowed you to be in good enough shape to combat primary cause?
If your brain is constantly scattered and in over drive then its very hard to even focus on therapy.
@@illitaret8780 Yes, exactly.
Affordability is a huge issue for many. Even “good” insurance no longer covers mental health care. PCPs are giving out psychotropics like candy
I agree
A very sad case. Thanks for comprehensive update Dr. G. Well summarised.
I hadn't been to a doctor in a long time, but recently had to go due to an emergency. I was shocked at the emphasis on medications. It was all about what meds you took, which new ones you needed, etc.
It is how they are taught now….3 minutes then write prescriptions
@@arribaficationwineho32 Exactly. They also ask repeatedly if you're depressed or sad. I'd always say no!
I agree i had an emergency and the dr and nurses could not believe at my age (57) that i only took vitamins. And there i was looking at them like they were drug dealers. Lol 😮
Just look who lobbies the most in our country. Pharma is up there next to weapons top 3.
Yep. How many of these crime videos have medication as a component? Especially kids/teens being medicated and then snapping. There should be national alarm and investigation. The pharmaceutical companies & doctors need to be held accountable. How are we as a nation so medicated yet never more sicker or mental unstable? 😢
This is so tragic. It breaks my heart.
Dr.G kinda back to the roots
We'll be back to the roots when we see the monitors in the background.. iykyk 😊
He's going old school on us. Smooth.
Can't appreciate enough of this longer video and its deep analysis on counselling, psychiatric medications and mental health! These information can't be found anywhere. It is a treasure for me! Every sentence and point presented align with those of mine. Now I know I am not alone with these understandings. If this content can be viewed by the world, it would be a great educational opportunity to level up general population's and mental health professionals' understanding the significance of these issues in this field.
The medication makes me slightly sympathetic towards a psychotic break but I’m drawn back to the internet searches and the errands she sent husband on.
It's the errands she sent him on that convinced me she planned it. She wanted him out of the house for a reason.
She told her husband recently that she was trying to figure out how to commit suicide.
This incredibly tragic case hits a nerve for me. I was diagnosed with OCD when I was a teenager and had managed it relatively well before I had my first child. After my first son was born, it was the scariest time of my life. Postpartum OCD coupled with hormone fluctuations clouded the weeks following his birth and I needed a couple stints of in patient care to get on the correct medication, be paired with a wonderful therapist, and for my hormones to stabilize. I had a similar experience after my second son was born, though I knew what to expect.
My situation is obviously different from this case but maternal mental health needs to be taken more seriously than it is. I was blindsided by my symptoms the first time and I'm lucky to have had all around good mental health care to get me through those crises. That is, unfortunately, not everyone's experience.
Had his children survived I doubt he would have wanted her anywhere near him or them. Sadly this is a guy clinging on to what he had.
Ya think?
Yeah... he should divorce her so he can move on. She will never be free again.
Poor guy. So heart breaking.
No I believe it's a man who coordinated the murders with her in my home state, I never hear anyone else say this so I am going to shout from the rooftop, WHY DID HE ONLY PICK UP A MEAL FOR TWO?
@@ang_ro I think they were practicing Catholics, he is not going to divorce her if he believes in sickness and in health. He didn't marry a monster, I think it was the illness she was experiencing on top of the 13 SSRIs she was put on. Poor Patrick, hopefully he is able to find the best healing from this nightmare.
@@EasrterRising1fan Religion. Oof. Regardless of the reason she did it, she k*lled their 3 kids. Bible says do not k*ll. He should get a pass on divorce in this instance. How do you forgive something like this. I guess I just don't understand.
Dear Dr. Grande, thank you for providing such good information on counseling vs prescribing medication. This is a very sad case. from Jean😇💕
Love the new format
You are exceptional and the information you give is SO valuable. Thank you Dr. Grande
You are so right. If an person is anxious it is better to learn to handle the problem that causes the anxiety.
This was an excellent video and I really appreciate all the information that you gave, as well as your opinions on everything.
I suffered horribly from PPD and since it went untreated it came to a head when my son was actually 6 years old! I was unaware that if it’s left untreated that it can last for years.
It started with crying. A lot of crying…for no reason. That causes anxiety & confusion because I didn’t know why I would just break out in tears at any given time. As time went on I just kept telling myself that it was normal and I just needed to focus on being a new mother and trying to do that to the best of my abilities.
But it progressed to a point where I was close to becoming agoraphobic. I had panic attacks, I couldn’t drive near any bodies of water or over any big bridges because I felt like I was going to flip the car and drown from getting stuck upside down in a river or lake. The panic attacks were becoming more frequent and my appetite died. I was sure that I was a horrible mother and that I wasn’t doing anything correctly. I stopped sleeping because I thought I’d have night terrors and hurt my son in my sleep. Then I was afraid I’d hurt him while alone with him… just because I was having these horrible thoughts of stabbing him. So to stay awake and fight that urge to kill my sweet & innocent child I would put on home movies of him and watch them all night while rocking back and forth in my chair and humming “twinkle twinkle little star” over and over. It was the only way I could get the feeling of panic to settle down a bit.
And the worst part of it all was that I didn’t tell anyone about what was going on. My husband and mother knew something was wrong. I mean I would call my mom and ask her to drive me anywhere I needed to go even though I had a license and no excuse to keep from driving myself. She lived 40 mins away and wouldn’t question me..she would just say yes and come pick me and my son up to go run my errands. And my husband just tried to keep me sane the best way he could without knowing exactly what was wrong with me.
But I thought that if I told anyone what was happening they would take my son away from me or they would lock me up.
Finally I confided in my GP. And begged him to keep it to himself and not report me to CPS.
Thank god he was a good man and an excellent doctor. He asked me a bunch of questions and finally told me that he was positive I had PPD. He explained that if it goes untreated it can actually last for years…yes 6 whole years! He immediately got me in with a psychiatrist and from that point on I was receiving treatment for the PPD…both medication and therapy. I did have to go through some medication changes….but not anywhere near 13 different meds!! 😮
Anyway, the PPD was successfully treated and today my “baby boy” is 31 years old.
And now I tell all new mothers (that I know personally) my story and try to educate them on getting help. I let them know they don’t need to be afraid to reach out to their doctor, because PPD is very real and it’s treatable.
If you stuck around long enough to read this, thank you and god bless. 😊❤
She made damning searches on the internet days before and sent her husband out. This was definitely premeditated imo.
Love this new personal formate that you’re using. Feels like you really care about what you’re talking about.
I like listening to your stuff. You have kind of a relaxing voice, sometimes i listen as I'm trying to go to sleep :) not trying to imply your stories are boring, you just have a relaxing voice and manner of speaking.
She premeditated enough to get her husband away long enough to carry out the murders
Actually, she later told her husband that she chose that restaurant due to traffic conditions. She didn't want him stuck in traffic.
Engaging comment. I have witnessed awful, aggressive behavior from normally civil men after too much alcohol. Not just drunk, but calculated aggression with words and actions. Could not the mother been so much out of her mind that irrationality took her over? A good comparison with Joseph Emerson? That was premeditated to some degree and very focused in action. Difference was very fortunately, lack of success on his part. Along with lingering feelings of condemning the mother here, those feelings also regard the people prescribing all the medication, apparently recklessly. Why not let’s talk about them or the apparent problem in general?
yea very sad to see all those doctors who doped her up probably never caringly listened once, and only seen a cash cow for their pill sponsorship.....I've been through it off and on for almost 10 years, and still never felt like anyone I ever met actually cared, or even could actually begin to understand the delicate human neuro circuit.... Almost NO ONE listened when I would say most all medicines I HAVE EVER took made me worse in one way or another....with caplytata sending me into a same day psychosis...
@@deanneuburger3869. I’m in the recovery community, and study substance use disorders. I’ve, personally, seen people in stimulant psychosis for prolonged periods. People who are in psychosis for longer periods of time, or have repeated episodes over time,, can develop complex delusions. I would assume they could also be capable of making plans for how to react to what they think is happening during these episodes. In my opinion, the legal definition of insanity doesn’t cover everything that meets the textbook definition. For example, I’ve seen someone who thought police were cutting a hole in his wall go to great lengths to hide his substance use from the intruders. He knew he was engaged in illegal behavior, and took steps to conceal it. However, he could not be said to be sane. There were no police, anywhere around him. No one was trying to apprehend him. I think it’s possible for people in psychosis to know the police wouldn’t approve of violent behavior, but still believe it’s absolutely necessary. I don’t know if the woman in this case tried to cover up her crime. I’m just using that as an example. The person I knew had elaborate means of hiding substances, which took planning. This may be more relevant to the case at hand.
Edit: Please excuse the wonky punctuation. I can’t see or edit on my device. 😬
Exactly
That was just soo sad, so many drugs in such a short time, also, any anxiety drug takes at least 6 weeks to kick in. How on earth how she could have been monitored appropriately on the multiple drugs she was taking.
Valium and klonpin would have been something she felt instantly. I was on Valium for a brief period and it made me feel drunk and I could hardly keep my eyes open. I don’t know why they would have her on both
Love the new format!
Good work, Todd - a sensitive and thoughtful case study.
I think of this case often.horrific,no matter what
I don’t care if it’s prison or an institution, she needs to never be free. 3 kids are dead. Facts.
That’s the basic truth of this whole situation. It doesn’t matter whether it was murder or psychosis. She killed 3 little children, so she must be removed from the general public.
I agree!
Send the Doctors to jail. Especially the one who didn't report intent to hurt others.
Absolutely agree. I can't get past the facts of this case. No other murdering parent has ever been treated with the sympathy that Lindsay Clancy has received. That is just not fair.
@@LifeisaHorrorMovie yeah I agree, hadn’t thought of that 🤔 but yea for sure.
I was in a drug recovery program & they would send 5 of us at a time to the psychotherapist across the street. I really wanted help BUT after talking about what was going on in my life, I asked what she thought? She straightened herself up & said; "Everybody else was in & out of here, got a script & was gone within 15- 20 minutes & you've been talking for 45 minutes, you'll need to come back again". I got arrested & after 5 years locked up & bumping my head a couple times; I've been sober 10 years! God worked for me so I try to work for Him!
🎉🎉🎉 May you live a happy life filled with love.🙏❤️
Finally someone willing to discuss this case. I wanted to see the law & medical view on this case and the man who unalived his three children. How they differ and same.
As far as I'm concerned, her children are dead and they did not die by themselves.
Doctors could have prevented it, she tried to reach out for help but they ignored counselling and went for the money making drugs instead
@catramax nope, she killed her children. No one else Not the drugs
She did it
No excuse.
This was a excellent analysis Dr. Grande.
I really like this format and the more detailed and deeper explantion of your observations.
Superb video.
Love this new format
I agree counseling is preferable but sometimes in severe depression episodes medication needs to be prescribed immediately. I had an episode once wherein I couldnt sleep, taste food, work, function at all. I was no danger to anyone else nor psychotic but very suic*dal. Medication saved me. Within a week I was eating, sleeping and functioning again. Fortunately they gave me the "correct" drug to help me. It's a gamble for others. But sometimes it truly is necessary to reset your brain.
I agree. Medication saved my life and sanity.
I agree
I’m glad you made this video. Very informative. Wish I could sit and talk to you, for some one I love and am trying to help!
I'm still on the fence on this one. My hold-up is that it was planned out. I can't seem to get past that.
Do you understand what is PPD plus 13 psychiatric medication changes in less than a year?
One of the greatest channels on UA-cam! Structure, insight, consistency and most of all, a likeable and competent face 😊
Thank you Dr.Grande.
I am sure your video will help many people.❤👍👏
NEW CAMERA ANGLE!!! Hard on my autism.
Don't worry, I'm neurotypical and I'm having a hard time coping. The calming voice paired with the clean non distracting background = gold.
No diagnosing anyone, just speculating on a situation such as yours.
Not speculating on the merits of any camera angle, just diagnosing a condition like mine.
I like having a different format for the updates! Great idea! It’s interesting to have you speak a little more informally and I like that I can tell the difference between the update and the original video.
I have many questions like, if hormones are always fluctuating and she was on so many meds, how could they say she doesn’t have postpartum depression? When does postpartum depression end and psychosis begin?
The tire analogy...brilliant. I enjoy your work & your excellent well thought out way of conveying important information. Thank you. 🕊
In my opinion, not connecting with a therapist is nothing more than a personality conflict. Certain people bond and others do not. She should have reached out to another therapist.
Yes.
It can be a lot more than that. I know someone who has traits consistent with Cluster B who leaves any provider that doesn’t say what she wants to hear, agree with the narrative she wants, give her the prescriptions she wants, etc. She just hops to the next one until she finds someone she can control or who believes her bs and, because of that, she’s gotten so much worse and will likely spend the remainder of her life getting exponentially worse.
I really like when you weave in your counseling eduction expertise to help us understand potential context or motivations of the care team.
they tried to perscibe me seriquill, that crap had me sleep for days on end. I couldnt believe how strong that stuff was, and not in a good way, I did not need it.
I was diagnosed with bipolar 1 and was prescribed abilify, trazadone and Wellbutrin all at the same time. After a month I developed akathisia. I consulted two separate physicians and the NP who prescribed me the meds. Every single one basically said they couldn’t do anything for me, and were against me discontinuing my meds. The NP was even hostile to the idea to the point of arguing with me. I did not follow their advice and discontinued the meds on my own, and the akathisia went away after about 3 weeks. I was my own best advocate, both in education and in decision making, when it came to taking those meds, not the physicians. My talk therapist, on the other hand, helped me tremendously and I am so grateful for the work her and I did together.
I agree with the state. Lindsey should go to prison for murdering her 3 children.
Totally agree
She's paralyzed from the waist down. I've never seen anyone in prison in a wheelchair but I could be wrong.
@@josebro352 A physical disability/impairment does not preclude criminal responsibility. Plenty of disabled people get prosecuted and sent to prison with accommodations made to make prison more accessible to them. Just because we don't hear about them, doesn't mean they're not out there.
Great video. I was on head meds for years and they turned me into a zombie. They allowed me to dodge accountability. Once I got sober (15 years ago) I rebuilt my life and haven't been on any since. When I chose to become accountable, I began feeling good about myself. Talk therapy and counselling helped immensely. Most things that we label "mental health problems" are actually spiritual problems. Also, the 12 steps do work. We are quick to refuse the time tested old fashioned remedies because they are often difficult; they require guts and perseverance.
Thank you Dr.Grande for this informative upliad
Please more 1 take open chats, I love it. Certainly not complaining about the typical format though, appreciate all of it 🙏🏻
She prob realized killing yourself isn’t that easy, that’s why the wounds were superficial. There was a woman in Massachusetts shortly after this happened that killed herself after giving birth to twins.
And?, what or who made her killing herself?, asking because these days nobody owns anything they do, everything people do today is someone else fault.
Thank you again, Dr Grande, you are so insightful and a joy to listen to, even when the topic is so dire ❤
As someone who’s struggled
With poly-substance abuse my entire adult life.. YOU ABSOLUTELY CANT BLAME THE DRUGS FOR KILLING SOMEONE. ESPECIALLY SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO BE YOUR FLIPPING KIDS!? THE AUDACITY…
It’s actually sickening that the dad would take her side. He should really be ashamed. Guy needs to move on. She completely destroyed your entire family. It’s time to let her go dude.
This. She clearly was having mental health issues, regardless of the drugs.
You are so correct.
It sickening the excuses that these killers of children make .
I was in the same corner where all I ever got was new meds. All which had major side effects, to the point that I took a stance and said that I wouldn't touch another pill.
The doctor took that as a "you don't want to be helped" and they stopped trying to help me.
I love this format. I like your composed videos and puns too but this is a nice complement. As a former mental health practitioner, it’s nice to hear your takes on the professional side of things.
15:48 ❤
I absolutely love this and wish there were more therapist out there who operated like this!
There's plenty of people who would line up around the block to see someone who intended to help them "Fix" the problem, instead of stringing them along for years!
Word travels pretty fast when you find a good doctor, dentist, veterinarian, masseuse...
Appreciate the update. Anxiety can be upsetting, drugs usually exacerbate mental health esp when taking so many/mixing, yes hate the 💊 pushing😑Thanks Dr G💖💖
I take MH meds. My doctors watch Me Evert 30 days
@@maryrichardson6029 Not sure what those are. Of course meds work for some, not what I was saying, just they can be dangerous overall and make things worse. Dr G had great points.
She’s a nurse. She knows not to take all the drugs at once .
@@terryKessler42719 Nobody said that. Do you just want to argue or get attention terry
Oh, Dr. Grande, I've had so many bad therapists that I don't even know where to start. There was the one who violated my confidentiality, the one who told me in-depth stories about her former clients, the one who shrieked at me and kicked me out of her office when I politely asked her not to call me my birthname, the one who asked leeringly if I was promiscuous, the one who said that with my nascent understanding of sex, only a pedophile would ever want to sleep with me, the one who accused me of being suicidal when I was actually in a freaking great mood (up until then, anyway), the one who rejected me and seemed terrified of my problems after I outlined them for her (even though she'd been my campus counselor for five years), and several who laughed when I told them my trauma and said, "Your parents were trying to discipline you. Get over yourself." There are bad therapists out there. I think the good ones aren't the norm, assuming they exist. (I gave up searching. Now I read self-help books.)
Exactly. I feel Dr. Grande might be slightly biased, given his background as a clinical psychologist.
There exists shitty psychiatrists and shitty psychologists/therapists. Shitty people don't exist just in one location.
Good grief. Its right there!! The ROOT CAUSE of her anxiety was ...leaving her 3 little children to be raised by other women in Day Care ...... while she worked.
@@soniachambers6460 I suppose they both agreed she would have to work to pay the bills. If she had quit working after calling the Police after seeing her daughter cry on camera ....none of the rest would have ever happened.