@@MontuPlays Considering your ability to adapt to new game mechanics and to find a creative way to exploit them this seems pretty fitting. Keep up the good work, I really enjoy your content. :)
I played around with this and i discovered that the overlord subsidies acceptance isn't based on the percentage of resources they will subsidise but rather the amount of resources that will be AT THE POINT OF NEGOTIATION, this means that you can unemploy all your resource-producing pops and disband your mining stations, negotiate 45% subsidies easily and then afterwards return your economy to normal except they're still subsidising 45% of your current resource output.
From the speech pacing and word choices to the presentation format and development. The only think it lacks is obviously the accent and blatant Yorkshire Tea advertisement.
When i heard of imperial fiefdom and content creators were finding ways to deal with it i was wondering why no one showed the scholariom path which should have been the best path. Just tech up and 40-50 years into the game the overlord should collapse on itself and you are free
@@GewalfofWivia I think after some time the game will literally force it to collapse after sometime. I just tried and it always fracture even if its economy is healthy
Exactly this happened to me, I drained poor lizard to the ground with leader exploit. It kind of sucks now, because I don't have anyone to drain again, so I guess i will find another host to protect my poor empire :(
@@kw3565 That is something I am always curious about. Since I don't see the actual mechanisms behind it all, I can't really understand what triggers the pop-up messages saying that the overlord is failing to contain some sort of political changes inside itself. Maybe playing multiplayer and having you or someone else as Overlord would help understand this, cuz if it is a forced trigger to AI only, it kinda sucks. I love the boons. Saddens me that every single time i played Fiefdom, the Overlord breaks within a century, and only when playing a Machine empire the boons become useful cuz leaders are "Immortal", so that I can at least use them for a century more, after gaining freedom.
I'm just imagining the in-universe situation. Super smart species gets absorbed by aggressive not-as-smart empire and is bamboozled by their 'subject'. Every time the emperor calls for an envoy of his vassal to explain why it appears the imperial coffers are being drained dry, the envoy whips out a power point presentation which leaves the emperor with a headache but he's sure the empire is getting the better end of the deal. Hopefully.
A few other perfectly balanced things you could do as a vassal: 1. At the beginning of the game, offer a trade deal to your overlord giving them as much *loyalty* as you could, they will value it quite highly and trade back some pretty juicy resources. 150 loyalty can get you a deal of 60 minerals/month for 10 years. If your governing ethics are incompatible with your overlord (which seems to always be militarist, xenophile and materialist), your loyalty will continuously drop - offer them again periodically to extort more resources from your overlord. 2. At year 5 you will be able to negotiate changes to your vassal contract - where you would not be producing any strategics yet, and probably not a lot of advanced products. Change your deal to one where your overlord gives you subsidies in strategics and advanced resources (not applicable for Prospectorium), they will usually agree to a 15%/30% (rarely, even 45%) subsidy in advanced resources and an unconditional 45% for your strategics. Enjoy these gifts from your sugar daddy.
Apparently the values applicable to determining their willingness to pay bigger subsidies is determined by the capability of your economy at the time you're making the request. So if you tank your economy by unemploying everyone and disbanding all resource stations, you can get the 45% pretty consistently. Then just put it all back to normal afterward.
I heard “imperial thief” not “imperial fief” at the end, which I think sums it up well. I would like to see a take on the prospectorium start, namely in how you can increase your research stipend from your overlord to gain even more research than I think a scholarium could leach, and emerge from your vassalage with a territory filled with strategic resource deposits.
The problem is that prospectarium massively reduces your own research gain, and then the subsidies just kiiiiinda sorta even it out at max level. Which really isn’t great, especially compared to all the research boosts that the scholarium gets from their traits and special events. You make hella bank with those resource gain modifiers, tho.
@@zerg0s actually, the +20% researcher output techs stacks additively, not multiplicatively with the prospectorium malus. It’s possible to maintain neutral to positive production modifiers as a prospectorium,meaning that with your 30% stipend from the overlord you come out pretty well off in research. If you can change the contract to a 75% stipend, you’ll come out better than a scholarium in research output.
Prospectorium is by far the weakest choice if you’re choosing your own start because at the beginning you won’t have the influence to turn down contract changes and you can be stuck at a 45%+ tax within 10-15 years
Yeah, Scholarium is so freaking crazy ... I had 6 systems, 2 planets and just stacked the Engineer research trait + research and specialist output civics, nabbed some Curator buffs, assisted research from a science ship, full stack base research labs on my capital and had renegotiated with my Overlord to have them pay more basic and advanced resources .... holy shit, I was finishing tier 4 and 5 engineering research in 14-21 months no sweat
Oh God this is hilarious. I'm so excited to see what else you cover from this update. I'd really enjoy a video covering how best to use the newly upgraded automation system
A fun thing i did was start this way but as a mega corporation and basically had early free access to 5-6 planets at the start giving me loads of income and more research or free unity from them
8:28 But...that's not how research agreements work, I thought. The "we can learn" numbers aren't raw research points, they refer to technologies. You can learn 34 physic techs, 50 society techs, and 36 engineering techs at the reduced cost because they know them and you don't.
to be more specific, its a 25% "research speed (additive % like tech ascendancy)" to techs you are researching, known by the other party / so in reality it is less than 25% speed
Yeah so it turns out I have been wrong since 3.1, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. I still maintain it is pretty ambiguously written in the tooltip. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand though
Yeah, I saw the video and thought I'd try this start for myself. It was fun and a bit different, but it wasn't the overwhelmingly good tech rush that I expected (in fact, far from it). The recruiting of scientists and selling them to my overlord worked well, but the research agreement didn't work as suggested and my tech level at the point the overlord's empire fell apart around 2060 was just okay.
And I'm not sure whether it is a scripted event (I presume it is) or just bad luck, but my overlord's empire descended into civil war pretty quick breaking all the vassal agreements.
At minute 8-10, I think you misunderstood what those numbers mean. It's just the amount of technologies your overlord has and you don't have. He isn't giving you research for free, you only get the (30%?) boost to those technologies.
Yeah, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
Something that I like about your videos is that you explain/show everything in such a way that not only current players will understand it, but returning players and even new players learning the ropes as well. Thank you for your 'How to' and tier lists videos. I'm really excited about Overlord!
I've been trying out the new Mercenary Enclaves as a Megacorp, due to Naval Contractors and Private Military Companies providing +3 Enclave capacity. 80 Years into the game and I have to say, it seems to have a lot of potential. Can't wait for you to cover it.
they are so strong i made one with 50 corvets at the start of the game did not build my own army at all 9 years later went to war and rented them they went from 50 corvets at 7 k power to 40 k with battle ships for like 3 k energy i think
@@PedroFerreira-ne3jv i think thats only if they have a negative opinion of u because i went the whole game without any armys of my own and they loved me
@@PedroFerreira-ne3jv only with negative opinion, which should not be the case, because the only way to lose opinion with your enclave afaik is by recalling their fleets from a contract with another empire, which to me, should be used very sparingly anyway.
Yeah, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
@@MontuPlays I have reported various unclear tool tip text suggesting simpler clearer shorter phrases, but those reports tend to be ignored. I presume the ppl evaluating bug reports know what the text is supposed to mean and are blind to ambiguity
you should try a Rogue Servitor with the slignshot to the stars origin... the slingshot itself is not even the best part of that origin... "−75% Starbase Influence Distance Cost" makes taking over every corner of the galaxy so much easier and faster.
Actually real life is full of examples like that. The soviets exported nuclear reactors and rockets into my country in the seventies, we sent the potatoes back. Absolutely insane, the idiots just loved us.
"I have become more powerful then any overlord. I'm more powerful then the Chancellor. I can over throw him and we can rule the galaxy together, make things the way we want them to be" - Montuwu
@@Nomadic_Gaming MegaCorps don't need Technocracy to speed rush tech; by removing the need for basic resource production you can have a near 100% ruler/specialist only empire. The vast quantities of energy you will produce via Branch Offices on JUST the Overlord+vassals will be enough to subsidize all of your basic resource needs in the early game, at the very least until the Overlord falls apart. But if you really, really want Technocracy as a Megacorp, there's a mod for that! The only real problem with the "MegaCorp running Imperial Fiefdom origin" is that, in a Large (800 stars+) or bigger galaxy, there will be another megacorp vassal that you have to contend with. In this situation you need to make sure you get a branch office on your Overlord's home world. 70 pops is a LOT of trade, and once you get that first one you'll be able to afford the rest very quickly.
If I recall, he rolled the tech by 2252 and was using the old (and very broken) Machine Intelligence Ringworld start. If this build is only 3 years behind that, then it is comparable to the old MI ringworld ... yeah Imperial Fiefdom is OP as heck
8:25 The research that displays on the research agreement is not the research you receive per month, but the number of technologies that they know that you do not. The research agreeement instead reduces the cost of these techs by a third, so it's better than a mere 30 science per month.
Another really good start with fiefdom is Megacorps because you can make mad stacks on your overlords starting worlds. Then once they shatter you can easily either gobble them up or subjugate them and continue to get mad profit off them. Add in some Mercenary enclaves and it's pretty amazing.
i dont know how often it happens but when i played as a bulwark about 25 years into the game my overlord had a civil war and i became the overlord of the empire as a protectorate
Really wishing I had seen this video earlier, would have helped out my early play. But I've done quite well so far: I'm about to absorb my former overlord, and hope to eventually smooth out the local border gore by annexing everyone around me. A few things I have noticed about this origin: The name, species portrait, and some lesser aspects are randomized, but it is always a Holy Empire, the homeworld is named Aix, and it is a Gaia world, meaning the overlord has the Life-Seeded origin and pays a steep price for upkeep of their own colonies. This also makes it useful to take the ascension perk that allows you to terraform planets into Gaia worlds. Especially necessary if you want to absorb everyone in the empire, as they are likely to have various planet types and you want to minimize pop upkeep while being able to shift pops around without regard to species. Also, the geometry of the empire - you are always a few jumps away from Aix, while the other vassals are close to Aix. You have room to expand, they have limited directions and mostly facing away from you. (Though I ended up hemmed in by the galactic edge and neighbors to the north. Who have also volunteered to be our vassals...)
Unless they changed it, thats not how Research Agreements work - each party only gets a 25% bonus for technologies which the other party already has researched. There is no transfer of research points per se.
Yeah, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
Tbh I don't mind the leader trading Yes, it's cheap *for you*, but for your overlord it's literally something they could never get on their own, so it absolutely should be worth a lot of trade Also tbh, hiring a leader can be pretty damn expensive depending on timing and unity production
Except age doesn't seem to be a factor for trading leaders. You can trade leaders just before they're going to die, in exchange for research agreements, resources, even their own fleet. It's excessive.
Except they have no need for so many scientists. Once you've sold them 3 with research bonuses and a handful with survey bonuses they should probably stop wanting more. Especially because they always have the fuedal society civic, so they can't even fire the ones they have. They're just buying drains on their unity generation. It's a really bizarre interaction. It seems to be these values were set up with the OTHER side in mind: they wanted a player overlord to have to pay through the nose for special leaders and priced them accordingly... and then failed to give AI overlords reasonable weights for when such a trade would actually be appropriate.
It seems I've severely misunderstood the migration system lol. I always thought it let whole pops move around. So you might end up with sub-standard pops and a mix of ethics. If it just provides pop growth, that's insanely good, wow.
It's not *just* pop growth, it does add migrant pops to the list of possible species that can appear in your space with those undesirable traits and ethics.
You *can* have mega engineering by 2250 with any tech rush build and cybrex precursors without any particular cheese, can't you? At the very least, I did this today with void dwellers and technocracy/meritocracy without any other exploits.
I sat through an entire sonic commercial because I thought it was one of your opening bits(I listen through headphones at work) and then another sonic bit started playing and I had to do a double take 😂
What we have here is unity transformed into other resources. Meta speaking, it would take a strong relationship to trade value derived from one's social cohesion into literal capital spending of any value.
If you have the trade policy, we know 1 unity = 4 energy credits (as it produces 0.125 unity for every 0.5 energy). I think this has a ROI of somewhere in the region of 10-100 energy per unity (depending on traits and the cost of leaders)
Yeah it turns out I have been wrong since 3.1, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
Unfortunately, this has been patched out. One scientist won’t even get you one favor. Plus, your overlord will break the research agreement really quickly. I was not able to get even one research done before they broke it.
For those looking for a quick step by step recap on how to replicate this in your own game without needing to replay the video a half dozen times in the background: Vassal start Choose Scholaraist Send envoy to improve relations Set up embassy Offer migration treaty Buy scientists with a science trait and scholarium trait. Open trade negotiation trade scientist for favors rare resources, minerals, energy etc. Repeat as desired to gather favors etc. (Pro tip: the cyborg perk makes them worth even more) Form research agreement and pay them with favors. Use additional favors to form basic and advanced resource subsidies Focus on research the overlord already has for largest gain.
Going with the Free Haven Civic should improve pop growth even more? Another idea is to go with only negativ species options to super specialice later and profit from the better overloard pops early, which we should gain through the imigration treaty?
Imperial fiefdom can be abused another way : You're subsidised based on the amount you gain, even iwhat you gain from monthly trades: If you're a Tier 2 Bulwark with mercantile traditions: your monthly trades cost a 20% fee but you get 45% more of the resource you want. You can then buy and sell the same resource at the same time that way, gaining a profit when you sell your minerals then buy them back : Sell 120 minerals, gain 145 energy and pay 120 energy to gain 145 minerals : you gain 25 of each every month
That's not how research agreements work. You don't get research from them. You only get a bonus to researching techs they have that you don't. The tooltip doesn't tell you how much research you get from them; it tells you how many of each tech type they have that you don't.
By trading for negative loyalty its pretty doable to get insane modifiers on your terms negotiation deals, making it quite easy to completely strip them naked till they collapse.
For a few ingame years this works, until the overlord decides to change you into a prospectorium and raise your taxes to insane amounts til all your resources are in the negatives.
The migration treaty at the start of game does NOT always result in a massive increase to pop growth, it seems to be very hit or miss. Some starts I get it, some I do not. I think in some cases the AI does something else with those extra pops or maybe doesn't have unemployed pops.
Unless they've changed the way research agreements work, the numbers you see in the trade screen are the number of techs they have that you don't. These are the techs you get a 25%bonus to when teching them. You don't get one beaker per tech. So you are still paying more than you get beakerwise. But that's a small price to iay for all of the other free stuff you can get (until selling scientists gets either removed or hit with the nerf bat)
My first games as imperial fief, my overlord refused to give me any deal that would increase my loyalty no matter what i tried and then collapsed after 30yrs...
LOL has anyone tried doing a mega corp civ with a overlord yet? normally it would take awhile to get a huge amount of energy credits but you can get 1.5k energy coming in within the 1st 5-10 years(depending on how much you expand, the less you expand the more you can get) with this overlord play through...there is no need for a commercial agreement with the overlord or the vassals, the overlord has a 70-75 pop capital so straight off the bat you have 220 energy just for setting up the trade office with them and there is not influence penalty for making trade offices on other worlds. keeping in mind you do not need to have a commercial agreement with the vassals and they are all very local so the distance modifier is very low as well and you can probably get even more but one of the vassals for my play through was another mega corp so there is one planet i could not set up a trade office on
When I tested out the prospectorium, I saw my governor available for trade and worth like 340 points, I was amazed! Now bets are open, how much time till paradox fix this?
@@MontuPlays I assume the fix to the problem is going to involve typing *0 beside the value ai have for buying your leaders. As the leader are currently way over valued at almost 1000 weight since idolent overlords have a 25% trade modifier that reduces the value of items you trade them by 75%. As for the migration treaty exploit that a little bit hard but could be fix by having idolent overlord personalities recieving a larger malus to migration treaties.
This is utterly absurd... thanks for this video, I realized in my last game that there is something amiss. I did not realize the extent of this exploit though.
Also, the way that Research agreements work is not how you seem to think - research agreements give a 25% speed boost (additive) for techs that are known by the other party. There is no bonus to research income. You also can avoid using the favors at all by raising their opinion through favorable trades, which can also net you a trade agreement!
Yeah it turns out I have been wrong since 3.1, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
*borrowing a fleet* oh, my economy crashed. Somethin' is up with the situation-based deficits. Once one occurs, "solving" them using instant-trades on the market seems to break for the REST of the game and trade deals can glitch out for the ENTIRE game; even when you're no longer in a game. I thought it was supposed to make it better, but it seems like a trade deal firing off in a "weird" way (so not empire maintanence necessarily or shifting jobs "wrong") or selling things just can set you up for a death spiral. On my first run I conquered some primatives who immediately revolted into their own empire, and since they were my first xeno i had no slave processing up yet.
Seems they fixed the scientist trading somewhat. Can still get a good bit of resources though Lucky for me I had a nice fleet by 2230 when the overlord died( really early ) but managed to snag their one of the other vassals systems and subjugated another Worked perfect to cuz the cybrex sites I needed were in their systems. Think it’s gonna turn into a become the crisis game for me
Welp, time to start my game over. I found out on my own about sucking up to them and getting subsidies, but didn't know I could con them into a research agreement.
Have you tried this setup to boost to Psionic? What you all think? 1) Shroudwalker enclave (Bypass Mind over Matter) + Megacorp 2) Public Relationship + Free Trader 3) Egalitarian + Spiritualist + Xenophile 4) Latent Psionic + Thrifty + Traditional + Charismatic - Unruly - Deviants 5) Combine with Droids ( 6) Ascension: Xeno-Compatibility (To become like Lithoid)
There needs to be a condition where the ai empire is slowly turning into a fallen empire so it starts at a point you can't conquer it but it also doesn't accept your scraps so early and just hand out late game homeless pops. If not maybe just a professional clause you can't accept these scientists to boost your research from the very start or move the shared research powers to later loyalty stages.
one thing i've started doing as a vassal is selling max loyalty to my overlord for a huge chunk of starting resources, i just got 1k minerals, 1k ec, and 190 exotic gas for maxing out my loyalty, which means i can start racking up vassal xp sooner and at a higher rate. i didn't notice if you did that at the start. it's literally free resources.
You can also BUY Stellaris Overlord here and support this channel: www.humblebundle.com/store/stellaris-overlord?partner=montuplays&charity=25618
Ye balance i usaly get 45% tec and 75% basic resorce:)
Montu starting as a vasal: "None of you seems to understand. I am not locked in here with you. You are locked in here with me."
Does that make me the Rorschach of the Stellaris universe?
@@MontuPlays Considering your ability to adapt to new game mechanics and to find a creative way to exploit them this seems pretty fitting. Keep up the good work, I really enjoy your content. :)
@@MontuPlays Rorschach dies, tho...
@@WebShaman01 I either die a hero, or live long enough to see myself become the villain...
@@MontuPlays I don't know... Does this blob cause you to think of your mother?
I played around with this and i discovered that the overlord subsidies acceptance isn't based on the percentage of resources they will subsidise but rather the amount of resources that will be AT THE POINT OF NEGOTIATION, this means that you can unemploy all your resource-producing pops and disband your mining stations, negotiate 45% subsidies easily and then afterwards return your economy to normal except they're still subsidising 45% of your current resource output.
my god, Paradox finally managed to introduce crime into the game.
I'm totally going to try this before I go to work tomorrow.
@@backseatpolitician lemme know if it works
@@backseatpolitician did you try it?
Ah yes, the Tax Evasion Strategy
Is it just me, or does Montu slowly transform into Spiffing Brit over the course of this video? Like even down to the title. It feels like a homage.
Can't wait for him to start making lore videos
Homage or a attempt at click baiting another YT'ers fan base?
From the speech pacing and word choices to the presentation format and development. The only think it lacks is obviously the accent and blatant Yorkshire Tea advertisement.
I mean, this video is all about breaking the system, right?
The first title made me think it was a spiffingbrit video until I realized Montu made it
When i heard of imperial fiefdom and content creators were finding ways to deal with it i was wondering why no one showed the scholariom path which should have been the best path.
Just tech up and 40-50 years into the game the overlord should collapse on itself and you are free
I've done several runs, the Overlord always does very well and basically becomes the uncontested number 1 power in the galaxy.
@@GewalfofWivia I think after some time the game will literally force it to collapse after sometime. I just tried and it always fracture even if its economy is healthy
is it fun to play that way?
Exactly this happened to me, I drained poor lizard to the ground with leader exploit. It kind of sucks now, because I don't have anyone to drain again, so I guess i will find another host to protect my poor empire :(
@@kw3565
That is something I am always curious about. Since I don't see the actual mechanisms behind it all, I can't really understand what triggers the pop-up messages saying that the overlord is failing to contain some sort of political changes inside itself. Maybe playing multiplayer and having you or someone else as Overlord would help understand this, cuz if it is a forced trigger to AI only, it kinda sucks. I love the boons.
Saddens me that every single time i played Fiefdom, the Overlord breaks within a century, and only when playing a Machine empire the boons become useful cuz leaders are "Immortal", so that I can at least use them for a century more, after gaining freedom.
I'm just imagining the in-universe situation. Super smart species gets absorbed by aggressive not-as-smart empire and is bamboozled by their 'subject'. Every time the emperor calls for an envoy of his vassal to explain why it appears the imperial coffers are being drained dry, the envoy whips out a power point presentation which leaves the emperor with a headache but he's sure the empire is getting the better end of the deal. Hopefully.
A few other perfectly balanced things you could do as a vassal:
1. At the beginning of the game, offer a trade deal to your overlord giving them as much *loyalty* as you could, they will value it quite highly and trade back some pretty juicy resources. 150 loyalty can get you a deal of 60 minerals/month for 10 years. If your governing ethics are incompatible with your overlord (which seems to always be militarist, xenophile and materialist), your loyalty will continuously drop - offer them again periodically to extort more resources from your overlord.
2. At year 5 you will be able to negotiate changes to your vassal contract - where you would not be producing any strategics yet, and probably not a lot of advanced products. Change your deal to one where your overlord gives you subsidies in strategics and advanced resources (not applicable for Prospectorium), they will usually agree to a 15%/30% (rarely, even 45%) subsidy in advanced resources and an unconditional 45% for your strategics. Enjoy these gifts from your sugar daddy.
Apparently the values applicable to determining their willingness to pay bigger subsidies is determined by the capability of your economy at the time you're making the request. So if you tank your economy by unemploying everyone and disbanding all resource stations, you can get the 45% pretty consistently. Then just put it all back to normal afterward.
Written like a spiffing brit concept
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 That's absolutely hilarious! 😁
This video is quite spiffing. But Overlord is a blast so far. Thanks for build videos
I heard “imperial thief” not “imperial fief” at the end, which I think sums it up well.
I would like to see a take on the prospectorium start, namely in how you can increase your research stipend from your overlord to gain even more research than I think a scholarium could leach, and emerge from your vassalage with a territory filled with strategic resource deposits.
The problem is that prospectarium massively reduces your own research gain, and then the subsidies just kiiiiinda sorta even it out at max level. Which really isn’t great, especially compared to all the research boosts that the scholarium gets from their traits and special events.
You make hella bank with those resource gain modifiers, tho.
@@zerg0s actually, the +20% researcher output techs stacks additively, not multiplicatively with the prospectorium malus.
It’s possible to maintain neutral to positive production modifiers as a prospectorium,meaning that with your 30% stipend from the overlord you come out pretty well off in research.
If you can change the contract to a 75% stipend, you’ll come out better than a scholarium in research output.
@@DestructivelyPhased Isn't the contract capped at 45% for stipends?
@@zerg0s nope, it can go to 75%
Prospectorium is by far the weakest choice if you’re choosing your own start because at the beginning you won’t have the influence to turn down contract changes and you can be stuck at a 45%+ tax within 10-15 years
Yeah, Scholarium is so freaking crazy ... I had 6 systems, 2 planets and just stacked the Engineer research trait + research and specialist output civics, nabbed some Curator buffs, assisted research from a science ship, full stack base research labs on my capital and had renegotiated with my Overlord to have them pay more basic and advanced resources .... holy shit, I was finishing tier 4 and 5 engineering research in 14-21 months no sweat
Oh God this is hilarious. I'm so excited to see what else you cover from this update. I'd really enjoy a video covering how best to use the newly upgraded automation system
A fun thing i did was start this way but as a mega corporation and basically had early free access to 5-6 planets at the start giving me loads of income and more research or free unity from them
I see that, but it might be more interesting to bank the tech when trade is small, then go Corporate when natural expansion is over.
@@RobBCactive Can you be a megacorperation then go for scholar anyways? A two in one special?
8:28 But...that's not how research agreements work, I thought. The "we can learn" numbers aren't raw research points, they refer to technologies. You can learn 34 physic techs, 50 society techs, and 36 engineering techs at the reduced cost because they know them and you don't.
to be more specific, its a 25% "research speed (additive % like tech ascendancy)" to techs you are researching, known by the other party / so in reality it is less than 25% speed
Yeah I'm surprised Montu doesn't know how this works...
Yeah so it turns out I have been wrong since 3.1, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. I still maintain it is pretty ambiguously written in the tooltip. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand though
Yeah, I saw the video and thought I'd try this start for myself. It was fun and a bit different, but it wasn't the overwhelmingly good tech rush that I expected (in fact, far from it). The recruiting of scientists and selling them to my overlord worked well, but the research agreement didn't work as suggested and my tech level at the point the overlord's empire fell apart around 2060 was just okay.
And I'm not sure whether it is a scripted event (I presume it is) or just bad luck, but my overlord's empire descended into civil war pretty quick breaking all the vassal agreements.
the *HOLY* Vhellet Empire: is Materialist Bruh
Like some religions/cults in real world. Role playing AI.
Blessed be the machine.
From the weakness of the mind, Omnissiah save us.
At minute 8-10, I think you misunderstood what those numbers mean.
It's just the amount of technologies your overlord has and you don't have.
He isn't giving you research for free, you only get the (30%?) boost to those technologies.
Yeah, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
Something that I like about your videos is that you explain/show everything in such a way that not only current players will understand it, but returning players and even new players learning the ropes as well. Thank you for your 'How to' and tier lists videos. I'm really excited about Overlord!
10:55 "If there are still walls standing, then you haven't stolen enough."
Montu Works for the IRS.
Thanks for the heart! :)
I can imagine the Montu lizard just holding a copy of The Art of the Deal in one hand, and red, glaring eyes as he's handed a vassalization contract
ah yes, if being the child of a fallen empire wasnt enough, now you get to be the child of an empire at its prime
We've reached levels of balance that shouldn't even be possible!
I've been trying out the new Mercenary Enclaves as a Megacorp, due to Naval Contractors and Private Military Companies providing +3 Enclave capacity. 80 Years into the game and I have to say, it seems to have a lot of potential. Can't wait for you to cover it.
they are so strong i made one with 50 corvets at the start of the game did not build my own army at all 9 years later went to war and rented them they went from 50 corvets at 7 k power to 40 k with battle ships for like 3 k energy i think
@@CrimsonReaper189 its good to note that Merc Enclave leaders give bonuses Fire Rate and Evasion, making Corvettes ideal for them.
If I’m not mistaken there is a chance that the mercenaries that you make rebel against you if they are stronger, maybe this slows down the build
@@PedroFerreira-ne3jv i think thats only if they have a negative opinion of u because i went the whole game without any armys of my own and they loved me
@@PedroFerreira-ne3jv only with negative opinion, which should not be the case, because the only way to lose opinion with your enclave afaik is by recalling their fleets from a contract with another empire, which to me, should be used very sparingly anyway.
The research aggrement is actually not a science point boost, it's when you research those 100 or so tech, you get crazy speed bonus.
Yeah, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
@@MontuPlays I have reported various unclear tool tip text suggesting simpler clearer shorter phrases, but those reports tend to be ignored.
I presume the ppl evaluating bug reports know what the text is supposed to mean and are blind to ambiguity
Rogue servitor Shattered ring.
"Look at what they need to do to mimic a fraction of our power."
you should try a Rogue Servitor with the slignshot to the stars origin... the slingshot itself is not even the best part of that origin... "−75% Starbase Influence Distance Cost" makes taking over every corner of the galaxy so much easier and faster.
Devs: release new update.
Montu: creates vampire vassal Meta build
Devs: ............
Actually real life is full of examples like that. The soviets exported nuclear reactors and rockets into my country in the seventies, we sent the potatoes back. Absolutely insane, the idiots just loved us.
The potatoes were likely more use, Soviet reactors are more a liability.
Even if Russians think Chernobyl is a safe place to dig trenches.
You're underestimating the value of potatoes to a russian. After all you can make vodka out of it.
trading leaders to print resources, it like the diplo rework all over again
Going for the Spiffing Brit approach I see. We will observe your career with great interest Montu
"I have become more powerful then any overlord.
I'm more powerful then the Chancellor. I can over throw him and we can rule the galaxy together, make things the way we want them to be" - Montuwu
You can further abuse this by starting as a megacorp, the energy you get from the branches scale with the resources you are sucking from the overlord
cant get technocracy as mega corp tho which is how you speed rush tech and unity
@@Nomadic_Gaming MegaCorps don't need Technocracy to speed rush tech; by removing the need for basic resource production you can have a near 100% ruler/specialist only empire. The vast quantities of energy you will produce via Branch Offices on JUST the Overlord+vassals will be enough to subsidize all of your basic resource needs in the early game, at the very least until the Overlord falls apart. But if you really, really want Technocracy as a Megacorp, there's a mod for that!
The only real problem with the "MegaCorp running Imperial Fiefdom origin" is that, in a Large (800 stars+) or bigger galaxy, there will be another megacorp vassal that you have to contend with. In this situation you need to make sure you get a branch office on your Overlord's home world. 70 pops is a LOT of trade, and once you get that first one you'll be able to afford the rest very quickly.
I was kinda chuckling when he said mega engineering in year 60 and just remembering Stefans Dyson rush by year 60ish. Cool build though!
If I recall, he rolled the tech by 2252 and was using the old (and very broken) Machine Intelligence Ringworld start. If this build is only 3 years behind that, then it is comparable to the old MI ringworld ... yeah Imperial Fiefdom is OP as heck
@@MontuPlays Fair enough honestly
Gets home.
First notification comes through, *It's Montu*
Let's gooooo
Paradox: we made the ai better
The a better ai:
Looking forward to the video today.
Vassal system guide soon?
Galactic empire vassalization build?
Cheers.
8:25 The research that displays on the research agreement is not the research you receive per month, but the number of technologies that they know that you do not. The research agreeement instead reduces the cost of these techs by a third, so it's better than a mere 30 science per month.
And Knuckles was a steam-age primitive civilization and then got half your Empire after rebelling.
Another really good start with fiefdom is Megacorps because you can make mad stacks on your overlords starting worlds. Then once they shatter you can easily either gobble them up or subjugate them and continue to get mad profit off them. Add in some Mercenary enclaves and it's pretty amazing.
You fool, I can FEEL Spiff vibrating with tea-fueled legal potency even from here! Your Sonic the Hedgehog references won't save us again!
i dont know how often it happens but when i played as a bulwark about 25 years into the game my overlord had a civil war and i became the overlord of the empire as a protectorate
Really wishing I had seen this video earlier, would have helped out my early play. But I've done quite well so far: I'm about to absorb my former overlord, and hope to eventually smooth out the local border gore by annexing everyone around me.
A few things I have noticed about this origin: The name, species portrait, and some lesser aspects are randomized, but it is always a Holy Empire, the homeworld is named Aix, and it is a Gaia world, meaning the overlord has the Life-Seeded origin and pays a steep price for upkeep of their own colonies. This also makes it useful to take the ascension perk that allows you to terraform planets into Gaia worlds. Especially necessary if you want to absorb everyone in the empire, as they are likely to have various planet types and you want to minimize pop upkeep while being able to shift pops around without regard to species.
Also, the geometry of the empire - you are always a few jumps away from Aix, while the other vassals are close to Aix. You have room to expand, they have limited directions and mostly facing away from you. (Though I ended up hemmed in by the galactic edge and neighbors to the north. Who have also volunteered to be our vassals...)
Just the fact that you can rely on your Overlord for protection as a tech empire is pretty powerful on its own.
Unless they changed it, thats not how Research Agreements work - each party only gets a 25% bonus for technologies which the other party already has researched. There is no transfer of research points per se.
Yeah, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
Tbh I don't mind the leader trading
Yes, it's cheap *for you*, but for your overlord it's literally something they could never get on their own, so it absolutely should be worth a lot of trade
Also tbh, hiring a leader can be pretty damn expensive depending on timing and unity production
Except age doesn't seem to be a factor for trading leaders. You can trade leaders just before they're going to die, in exchange for research agreements, resources, even their own fleet. It's excessive.
It is still 10 times too op.
Who else is in the market? You don't pay double for a house because it's unique, the value to others is significant.
Except they have no need for so many scientists. Once you've sold them 3 with research bonuses and a handful with survey bonuses they should probably stop wanting more. Especially because they always have the fuedal society civic, so they can't even fire the ones they have. They're just buying drains on their unity generation. It's a really bizarre interaction.
It seems to be these values were set up with the OTHER side in mind: they wanted a player overlord to have to pay through the nose for special leaders and priced them accordingly... and then failed to give AI overlords reasonable weights for when such a trade would actually be appropriate.
I love the perfectly balanced videos👌
Like a cup of Yorkshire Gold
It seems I've severely misunderstood the migration system lol. I always thought it let whole pops move around. So you might end up with sub-standard pops and a mix of ethics.
If it just provides pop growth, that's insanely good, wow.
Same. I wish they'd, you know... explain that.
It's not *just* pop growth, it does add migrant pops to the list of possible species that can appear in your space with those undesirable traits and ethics.
lol me too
@@miracletortoise6224 Does it take yours away though?
The Spiffing Montu plays again :DD
You *can* have mega engineering by 2250 with any tech rush build and cybrex precursors without any particular cheese, can't you? At the very least, I did this today with void dwellers and technocracy/meritocracy without any other exploits.
The spiffing Brit would be proud, Montuwu.
I sat through an entire sonic commercial because I thought it was one of your opening bits(I listen through headphones at work) and then another sonic bit started playing and I had to do a double take 😂
Haha that is actually amazing. I'm so sorry
Brilliant
What we have here is unity transformed into other resources. Meta speaking, it would take a strong relationship to trade value derived from one's social cohesion into literal capital spending of any value.
If you have the trade policy, we know 1 unity = 4 energy credits (as it produces 0.125 unity for every 0.5 energy). I think this has a ROI of somewhere in the region of 10-100 energy per unity (depending on traits and the cost of leaders)
You don't get extra research speed from an agreement. Those are the number of techs they can help you research.
Yeah it turns out I have been wrong since 3.1, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
Unfortunately, this has been patched out. One scientist won’t even get you one favor.
Plus, your overlord will break the research agreement really quickly. I was not able to get even one research done before they broke it.
Imperial fief, I just keep hearing imperial thief.
For those looking for a quick step by step recap on how to replicate this in your own game without needing to replay the video a half dozen times in the background:
Vassal start
Choose Scholaraist
Send envoy to improve relations
Set up embassy
Offer migration treaty
Buy scientists with a science trait and scholarium trait.
Open trade negotiation trade scientist
for favors rare resources, minerals, energy etc.
Repeat as desired to gather favors etc.
(Pro tip: the cyborg perk makes them worth even more)
Form research agreement and pay them with favors.
Use additional favors to form basic and advanced resource subsidies
Focus on research the overlord already has for largest gain.
Going with the Free Haven Civic should improve pop growth even more?
Another idea is to go with only negativ species options to super specialice later and profit from the better overloard pops early, which we should gain through the imigration treaty?
I thought the new psionic rush was amazing. This is insane!!
Imperial fiefdom can be abused another way : You're subsidised based on the amount you gain, even iwhat you gain from monthly trades: If you're a Tier 2 Bulwark with mercantile traditions: your monthly trades cost a 20% fee but you get 45% more of the resource you want.
You can then buy and sell the same resource at the same time that way, gaining a profit when you sell your minerals then buy them back :
Sell 120 minerals, gain 145 energy and pay 120 energy to gain 145 minerals : you gain 25 of each every month
When you do this build and then get the Zroni as your precursor. Even more overpowered.
Yeah making research agreement with scientific vassals seems to me an oversight
That's not how research agreements work. You don't get research from them. You only get a bonus to researching techs they have that you don't. The tooltip doesn't tell you how much research you get from them; it tells you how many of each tech type they have that you don't.
By trading for negative loyalty its pretty doable to get insane modifiers on your terms negotiation deals, making it quite easy to completely strip them naked till they collapse.
For a few ingame years this works, until the overlord decides to change you into a prospectorium and raise your taxes to insane amounts til all your resources are in the negatives.
The migration treaty at the start of game does NOT always result in a massive increase to pop growth, it seems to be very hit or miss. Some starts I get it, some I do not. I think in some cases the AI does something else with those extra pops or maybe doesn't have unemployed pops.
Imperial thiefdom perhaps
Spiffing Brit took over montus channel
Unless they've changed the way research agreements work, the numbers you see in the trade screen are the number of techs they have that you don't. These are the techs you get a 25%bonus to when teching them. You don't get one beaker per tech. So you are still paying more than you get beakerwise.
But that's a small price to iay for all of the other free stuff you can get (until selling scientists gets either removed or hit with the nerf bat)
About to start I and I'm sure this won't be terrifying at all not at all
I’ll never be not be surprised at UA-camrs that still read comments
Wait, hold the phone... never... not... suprised...
So you are surprised! Aha
The vassals breaking away after the death of the initial ruler of the overlord is more of a Timsplosion than a Mingsplosion.
My first games as imperial fief, my overlord refused to give me any deal that would increase my loyalty no matter what i tried and then collapsed after 30yrs...
LOL has anyone tried doing a mega corp civ with a overlord yet? normally it would take awhile to get a huge amount of energy credits but you can get 1.5k energy coming in within the 1st 5-10 years(depending on how much you expand, the less you expand the more you can get) with this overlord play through...there is no need for a commercial agreement with the overlord or the vassals, the overlord has a 70-75 pop capital so straight off the bat you have 220 energy just for setting up the trade office with them and there is not influence penalty for making trade offices on other worlds. keeping in mind you do not need to have a commercial agreement with the vassals and they are all very local so the distance modifier is very low as well and you can probably get even more but one of the vassals for my play through was another mega corp so there is one planet i could not set up a trade office on
Spiffing and Montu turf war lets goooooooooooooooooooo!
wait, that isn't the spiffing brit? no way
I’m not even gonna lie Im truly enjoying this expansion more than any of expansion. It was like they actually listened to their fans almost entirely
After all, not even the great Cao Cao became Emperor. He was content with utilizing the Emperor's own resources and staying a *loyal* vassal.
When I tested out the prospectorium, I saw my governor available for trade and worth like 340 points, I was amazed! Now bets are open, how much time till paradox fix this?
Next week? I hope
@@MontuPlays I assume the fix to the problem is going to involve typing *0 beside the value ai have for buying your leaders. As the leader are currently way over valued at almost 1000 weight since idolent overlords have a 25% trade modifier that reduces the value of items you trade them by 75%.
As for the migration treaty exploit that a little bit hard but could be fix by having idolent overlord personalities recieving a larger malus to migration treaties.
@@MontuPlays Not sure when they patched it, but those same scientists are now worth roughly 34 points a piece?
This is utterly absurd... thanks for this video, I realized in my last game that there is something amiss. I did not realize the extent of this exploit though.
There is a OP thing call take over the land when the Empire breaks apart and claim the throne
Also, the way that Research agreements work is not how you seem to think - research agreements give a 25% speed boost (additive) for techs that are known by the other party. There is no bonus to research income.
You also can avoid using the favors at all by raising their opinion through favorable trades, which can also net you a trade agreement!
I’m pretty sure you get the 25% bonus on 35 engineering (phys/bio) techs not 35 engineering research and the 25% bonus
Yeah it turns out I have been wrong since 3.1, since they updated the tooltip text in (I want to say) 3.1 I have misunderstood and thought it was now also adding base research production. That's a mistake I've made for almost a year now! It's crazy the things you can misunderstand.
@@MontuPlays no worries keep up the good work tho.
*borrowing a fleet* oh, my economy crashed.
Somethin' is up with the situation-based deficits. Once one occurs, "solving" them using instant-trades on the market seems to break for the REST of the game and trade deals can glitch out for the ENTIRE game; even when you're no longer in a game. I thought it was supposed to make it better, but it seems like a trade deal firing off in a "weird" way (so not empire maintanence necessarily or shifting jobs "wrong") or selling things just can set you up for a death spiral. On my first run I conquered some primatives who immediately revolted into their own empire, and since they were my first xeno i had no slave processing up yet.
Some where, a leader in that holy empire "this research agreement is the worst trade deal maybe ever signed anywhere, we need to build a wall"
Seems they fixed the scientist trading somewhat. Can still get a good bit of resources though
Lucky for me I had a nice fleet by 2230 when the overlord died( really early ) but managed to snag their one of the other vassals systems and subjugated another
Worked perfect to cuz the cybrex sites I needed were in their systems.
Think it’s gonna turn into a become the crisis game for me
I just wanna know how you’re making that much unity I can’t break 15
Needs more Tea for perfection.
Welp, time to start my game over. I found out on my own about sucking up to them and getting subsidies, but didn't know I could con them into a research agreement.
You can now truly roleplay as Space Greece
Have you tried this setup to boost to Psionic?
What you all think?
1) Shroudwalker enclave (Bypass Mind over Matter) + Megacorp
2) Public Relationship + Free Trader
3) Egalitarian + Spiritualist + Xenophile
4) Latent Psionic + Thrifty + Traditional + Charismatic - Unruly - Deviants
5) Combine with Droids (
6) Ascension: Xeno-Compatibility (To become like Lithoid)
When I started watching you I got big Spiffing Brit vibes haha
They should set it up like immediate vs. monthly resources so that you can only trade leaders for leaders.
Overlord: Now you can be part of the Astro-Hungarian empire!
This is exactly what I thought would happen as soon as I saw scholarium get announced though I didn't think the leaders would be worth so much
That acceptance is definitely broken. It should be 20 at most for a leader.
There needs to be a condition where the ai empire is slowly turning into a fallen empire so it starts at a point you can't conquer it but it also doesn't accept your scraps so early and just hand out late game homeless pops. If not maybe just a professional clause you can't accept these scientists to boost your research from the very start or move the shared research powers to later loyalty stages.
I think I also saw someone using branch offices on the overlord.
This sounds like a hell of a lot of fun to play around with. I know it's gonna get gutted pretty quick but I'm gonna have fun while this lasts.
Amazing video
one thing i've started doing as a vassal is selling max loyalty to my overlord for a huge chunk of starting resources, i just got 1k minerals, 1k ec, and 190 exotic gas for maxing out my loyalty, which means i can start racking up vassal xp sooner and at a higher rate. i didn't notice if you did that at the start. it's literally free resources.
oh someone already mentioned it in the comments
so far overlord is very fun and im so relieved that its not another nemisis situation
It's true that it is ideal condition, and this is very difficult to have such start with overlord.
Hey! That’s spiffs job!