"Should independent internet film critics be allowed to write theatrical franchise films" is not a question we should ever have to ask in a post-To Boldly Flee world
& Strangely enough, & despite having a carpet full of allegations & scaming $90K dollars to his fanbase, Twitter users still love & defend the Channel Awesome productions & the people behind them
@@ulture I think there's a higher barrier to entry in a professional writer's room than "has a webcam and some questionable but very adamant opinions". And I'm sure there are exceptions to that statement but unlike UA-cam that's still not the baseline standard for the entire business model.
@@vegapunk-aurora barriers to entry aren't a good thing, and have nothing to do with meritocracy. they're a woefully inadequate solution to the problem of needing to capture as many eyeballs as possible in order to get to keep going. It doesn't need to be this way.
@@ulture For the sake of clarity I'm going to cut through my own hyperbole here and be more direct about the actual intent of my statements, though personally I think it was fairly clear I wasn't meaning to speak in absolutes. When I say that To Boldly Flee proves that internet critics should not be entrusted with writing major motion pictures, I did not mean to imply that absolutely no UA-cam media analysts are in any way qualified to produce quality original content. I was merely using an immediate infamous example of that turning out very badly to illustrate the point that being a UA-cam critic is not in itself a qualifying trait for being a professional-grade writer. In particular, critics who are known largely for shallow surface-level analysis, caustic snark, and dismissive smugness for the sake of comedy tend to lack the characteristic emotional intelligence and nuance that make for great, enduring storytelling. Even setting that aside, though, UA-cam is a highly accessible platform that just about anyone can at least theoretically try to take a crack at at any time, and while that's a great thing for art in general, it also means that there's very little skill floor to publishing, and success is often not based on quality of output or guaranteed to be transferable to a different media environment. Hollywood certainly has its problems with nepotism, trend-chasing, and the like, but at the end of the day you are far more likely to find people within the structure of the larger filmmaking industry to be more skilled an knowledgeable about the craft, whether it be due to study, experience, or just general immersion. It's certainly not a perfect environment for finding a suitable writer for your project, but it's a much more sensible place to start, even if only because the people there are going to at least have some familiarity with the process and environment. In short, yes I suppose I agree that there should be more equity in the opportunity to write for film and television, and there are many people who have achieved a certain level of success via UA-cam that I'm sure would make for excellent screenwriters and directors. However, being a successful UA-camr does not inherently mean that you are qualified to write for a major franchise. Particularly, as is the Critical Drinker's case, if your entire method of media analysis is the rhetorical equivalent of jingling keys in front of a baby.
@@timrosswood4259 Oh, Rogue One was EXCELLENT. And I have heard good things about Mandalorian and Andor. But I've heard much more negative than positive. To me, another bad Star Wars project wouldn't make me blink. At least, a bad Drinker movie would be funny. A surprisingly good movie would be good.
@@timrosswood4259rogue one has flat characters with no arc and does literally nothing interesting with them. The film looks good and has good battles, but it's story is an absolute mess
If your solution to avoiding backlash from fans is to hire fans to write for you rather than professional writers paid enough to give a damn, you have not learned a single thing. This is appeasement, not a solution driven mindset.
Are you kidding the drinker writting a star wars film would be incredible It would be so uniquely bade that no one will ever take the drinker or other far right youtubers ever again. 🤣
Reminds me of what Bill Parcells said about listening to the fans (he was a Super Bowl winning head coach in the NFL and is in the Hall of Fame): "I love our fans, it's who we play for, but if I listened to them, I'd be joining them in the bleachers next week". In my experience as both a Sports fan and as fan that has been involved in fan communities for various fictional world, Fans don't know what they want and don't know what they're talking about.
I think it's funny that Lily HATES Rey being a think with Ben Solo, because Ben is abusive. Of course Lily's self-insert OC is even more evil and unredeemable than Ben was lol.
@@Grf1556 Y’know it’s funny you say that. If the relationship of Rey x Lily’s self-insert OC is anything like Lily’s real life relationship, you know damn well Rey would be abused and gaslit far worse than anything Kylo would do to her. I’m not exactly a huge fan of Reylo either, but it’s not because I think Reylo is super abusive. I just think it wasn’t developed very well, and I’m of the personal opinion that Rey had much better chemistry with Finn, but that’s beside the point.
Something in me says, "Yes." Simply to witness their crash and burn and the responses of Nerdotic and Critical Drinker when 'fans' offer them the same type of criticism that they are content to offer. Incompetence in filmmaking was never accepted by moviegoers or fans.
A focus group with a sit-in by a serious Disney executive would be fine. At the end, the executive could explain to Drinker, SWT, and Nerdrotic in very cutthroat business terms why all their ideas are whiny piss-baby drivel and they are racist, woman-hating turds, that deserve nothing but scorn and disgust. Look, they can imagine all they want that Kathleen Kennedy is stupid, but the fact is that she would destroy their egos in minutes. Easily.
@@milagrosgutierrezmartin9506, Unlike Disney or Star Wars, neurotic and critical drinker works are not a part of popular culture. They can be categorised as indie. As soon as they do something more widespread, everyone will be harshly critical of them and act like kids, blaming everyone and inspecting themselves.
@@milagrosgutierrezmartin9506 Yeah, but no one knows about those, not even his fans. If they get a big popular franchise and make it absolute shit people will see it and then laugh at him for how terrible it is.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is generally seen as one of the best Star Trek movies ever. And it was written by Nicholas Meyers, a person who'd never watched Star Trek before, but took the time to understand it and added his own ideas. Disney seem to be laser focusing on the precise opposite approach, so by that logic, Critical Drinker may become the very thing that he swore to destroy.
The same thing with Andor, Tony Gilroy has admitted to not being that big of a Star Wars fan, so instead of trying to be this fan-pleasing extravaganza, he focussed on telling his own story and putting his own stamp on the universe while remaining consistent with the series' central themes and ideas, and the end result was not just the best Star Wars show (by some considerable margin, I might add), but arguably one of the best TV shows to come out during the last few years, period.
Drinker uploaded a trailer for a film based on one of his books a few months ago. Interesting to see it get panned by even his own fans because it was filled with the kind of cliches he is apparently above using. The nicest comments were consolations like “it’s really hard to make a film, well done for trying” Edit: sorry hadn’t got to that part of the video. I should add that I don’t know how involved Drinker was in the production of the film, just that it was based on one of his books, but I think the reaction from his fans is telling.
If Drinker's take on SW was just his own novels with a SW coat of paint slapped on top, omg would it ever get torn apart by audiences, critics, and his own fans.
@@francofernandes2006 She tried to nuke his channel when it came to critique. Do you think these "fans" will take critique well? This is why Poochie as a concept is aging far better than it should be. The Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie Show, the Simpsons S14E08, heavily dunked on fan-driven focus groups. Not to mention Spongebob Squarepants: Freestyle Funnies 2017 had a panel dunking on Free Comic Book Day, a hail mary to save a dying industry caused by the problem from the lethal combination of a lack of variety and a monopolistic distribution system. By the time Rippaverse finally released Isom and Transformers was picked up by Skybound, the industry basically was left in a zombified state, flatlined since there's a lot of references in these comics that only fans would get, alienating potential new readers. Not to mention having fans take the wheel while there's an ongoing problem with executive meddling will create media that will make Borderlands look like a masterpiece in comparison.
The studios should also keep in mind: Even if you do what they say, exactly how they tell you, they will probably still be unhappy with the end result and blame it entirely on you.
Totally, I honestly believe that's Star Wars' biggest issue under Disney. The Rise of Skywalker already seemed to aggressively try to address the haters of the Last Jedi. They didn't win anyone back and they just ended up losing more people who were still on board.
Even if these grifters were given Carte Blanche to make their dream genre movie with minimal studio interference, they still will find a scapegoat to blame their movie’s box-office bomb.
"Modern audiences just aren't ready for such a bold traditional take on story telling. It doesn't help that the marketing depart we hired was, unbeknownst to us, a subsidiary of black rock. Yes. That black rock. Our series was quiet cancelled by these so card marketers before the movie even came out. We gave them our money, and they did fuck all with it."
Critics suck as filmmakers. I have seen time and time again that they maybe be good at picking things apart, but when they start writing themselves, they are hilariously ignorant towards everything they do wrong.
It's one thing to look at a finished product you had no part in making and point out all the things wrong with it. It's another entirely to take your criticisms and figure out, "Hm, now how can we change this to make it work?" And then it's another other thing to *actually make it work.*
Sadly that's right. You might know what writing choices are wrong, but that doesn't mean you know how to take and execute the right ones. It's the kind of problem I got from trying to learn writing from youtube essays. Knowing how nitpick things isn't even half the battle.
Honestly? The biggest problem with modern Star Wars is that it’s trying TOO HARD to appeal to fans. Disney is too preoccupied with nostalgia bait to tell compelling stories. People like CD would just make that problem worse, while also making the movies more racist and sexist
You are joking right? If they would try to appeal to star wars fans hard and not play it super mega save to try to appeal to the biggest audience, than they wouldn't have nuked the legend content and made movies out of the most beloved books. If your sense of appealing to fans is just nostalgia bait than that's sad. They butcherd the Mandalorians by not including culture and invented a "don't remove your helmet"-tradition and called it culture. No music, no traditional language, no ancient strongholds, no clones, no battle training, no bounty hunting, no meaning for armor color, no alien mandalorians. The only thing they got correct is the armor and that mandalorians are an adopted family thing and even the family thing was shallow as hell. Everything they do is the most milktoast boring stuff and they do the politic stuff on top of it. And it makes a bad product cringy. If they would make a good product, the politic stuff wouldn't be that bad. The legend stories are partialy very dark and Andor is exactly a story that would fit into the content from Star Wars legends.
I wouldn't say that's the primary problem. Certainly a factor. There's also a counter element of trying too hard to be "different," and "subversive," to the point where it doesn't hold up as a story, which is what I think happened to TLJ and the Acolyte. I would say that Andor is the only one that has escaped both problems entirely
@@Bigbluedragon9 the fact that your criteria you're using to valorise EU stuff is that "it's dark" and that that's what made Andor great (instead of yknow... having a compelling story, no desire to tie into the other shows, and rather strong political stances) says it all about the depth of your ideas. the fact that your complaint about the Mandos is that they didn't *adhere* to made-up autism details instead of the obvious critique from the details you cite being that they're... boring... says it all. the milquetoast stuff is BECAUSE they dont want to offend fans and overgrown babies. what are the "politic stuff" that's in the shows you dont like (assuming Kenobi, Ahsoka, later season Mando? Acolyte etc.) Is it that there are brown people? That there are women? Surely it's more than just that that caught your ire :)
Here's my guess on what characters/storyline CD would put in a SW movie just based off of his reviews: - a strong stoic cis-het white man - a damsel in distress that's eye candy - probably set around the rise of the empire or prequels - absolutely no strong women, people of color, or anything mentioning gender
No. It not due to his politics but rather that I know that he can’t understand teaming. Everything has to be spelled out in front of him or he can’t understand it. This means he can’t tie politics into his stories and have it fit the landscape of an existing universe. I think he could make a science fiction movie even if I think it would be boring he could write it. Drinker comes off as someone who likes movies but doesn’t understand them.
@@leviadragon99 I honestly think he is just is too stupid to understand basic ways of structuring a story. I think Drinker genuinely just is too dumb to understand Glass Onion. He honestly blames the movie for not making sense because he doesn’t understand it. Drinker is the kind of person who needs the exposition in Blade Runner.
"Drinker comes off as someone who likes movies but doesn’t understand them" Remember when he made a vid talking about how Japanese movies are superior to movies from the west, but his examples were primarily ones from China and Korea?
@@MattEldritchHorror Yeah, and honestly without some sort of fairy deep understanding of culture you just shouldn’t be making such statements. For example I find it fascinating how eastern cultures have you kill god. Notice I didn’t name a specific national culture, dumb teenager n0etic say Japan and not eastern cultures. I am smart enough to know I am ignorant of exactly where the trope originated from and there is no way I can tell if this has distinct features from culture to culture. To me Old Boy doesn’t feel like a movie made in Japan, it just feels different, not better or worse, just not Japanese. I am correct because I let myself doubt. Drinker just wants to stick it to “Wokewood” and call it Japanese because he likes the movie despite not actually understanding it.
For me it is definitely about his politics. Regardless if the dude has talent in filmmaking or not (which he apparently does not). But his politics will inevitably leak out into his film making. I have literally never seen a film maker not put some of their own politics in their movies. I don't think I've ever seen a non political film anyway.
should we let The "Disney is making everything woke and that's why they're failing" crowd write a Star Wars (or anything nerd related really) movie/TV show logical answer is Hell No illogical answer is absolutely, for the extremely petty reason of watching them crash and burn horribly and prove that at the end of the day they don't actually CARE about these franchises, they care about bigotry and personal gains from grifting/rage bait.
I'm convinced a significant portion of the backlash is driven by grifters and bots. Remember when it was revealed that 90% of the Snydercut movement was artificially generated? The modern engagement cycle thrives on this kind of manipulation, and with the way grifting has been embedded into online discourse, it’s not going anywhere. Grifters understand what Fox News has known for decades: anger sells. Regardless of complaints, let’s not forget that the Sequel Trilogy still grossed over a billion dollars each. The brand is undeniably strong. This feels like a massive over-correction. The studio should focus on learning the right lessons from their recent missteps and moving forward. Otherwise, this could end up being as misguided as letting ChatGPT write the next Star Wars trilogy.
Didn't they determine that 13 per cent of the Snydercut push was from Bots? That might be a lot of Bots but not a lot of the actual people. It ignores that there were a lot of actual people who wanted it to be released, whether annoying or not, not to mention Snyder himself. To imply that not a lot of people cared is really silly. You're not wrong on everything else though.
Chris Ray Gun has gone on record as saying that he got offers from big conservative orgs to make his channel a right wing political one, and part of the deal was that they'd help boost his profile by engaging in viewbotting so it would get picked up by the algorithm easier. These people cheat and do it blatantly. And as the situation with Tenent Media has illustrated, there's a greater than 0 chance that those orgs are fronts for foreign despots.
3:38 No, nor exactly, George has ALWAYS BEEN pretty experimental with his art, & since he was getting older he sold Star Wars because HE WANTED TO FOCUS ON OTHER DIFFERENT PROJECTS with his remaining time & allow someone else keep the franchise alive He didn't sold it because of the Prequel Backlash, he sold it because he was simply DONE with tue franchise after so many decades
For comparison, One Piece Live Action cost 18 million per episode, which is, admittedly, STILL a lot of money, but they allocated those funds into bringing the world to life as practically as possible so they can have the show look as tangible as possible while using the rest of the money where it could benefit it the most (like the CGI). The fact that every single character here is a real person with makeup effects and camera trickery instead of using CGI to recreate any of em (except when it’s absolutely necessary), goes to show that while having a smaller budget should be the norm so as not to risk failure, what matters is also how that budget is used. I love The Acolyte, but that show did NOT need to cost 180 million dollars. What were they even thinking?
You might not be aware of this but tv show budget have been growing for a while and the pandemic cost surge has not gone away. The budget doesn’t come off as all that surprising sayid your not gonna use cost cutting measure like lots of green screen and CGI.
Fans shouldn’t be anywhere near the writer’s seat. Just because you like something or can critique it doesn’t mean you can write anything. I do believe that there’s a place for fans in the producer’s seat tho. Don’t give them power over the details, it’ll only end in tragedy, but I think that listening to fans when it comes to the general direction is worth exploring
Fan focus groups are a TERRIBLE Idea. That said, I do have a couple examples of DreamWorks Animation benefiting from focus groups: both "All Star" being in Shrek and Hiccup's disability in HTTYD were originally going to be cut. Test audiences LOVED both of these, so they were kept. "All Star" is the perfect way to open Shrek, since it establishes the tone for the rest of the movie. And both disabled children and their parents love seeing a disabled hero star in an animated film about dragons. It makes the story's themes that much stronger.
Can I get to write the next Star Wars? It will be about the existential horror of the Force and the illusion of choice. Also, given The Man with Future Liver Problems' books, I don't think he would be hired anyway.
@@googamp32 That's why I think they phrase "We hired Non star wars fans" is both a blessing and a curse. Since If someone who isn't a fan but knows the lore and source material, they could insert their own ideas and story into this universe. The best example is ofc Andor since Tony Gilroy doesn't really like star wars but likes the world and knows the source material and was able to make something amazing.
I often go back to what Robert Evans said in regards to conservative and/or reactionary attempts to mark art for themselves, said in particularly about Ben Shapiro's terrible novel but also broadly speaking too. The process of creating art involves putting your own interior consciousness on display for all to see and then analyze and react to--not just your conscious thought, but the things you unconsciously believe and hold as universal truths in your life. Specifically how empty your interiority is if you tend to be as rigidly conservative in your outlooks as people like Will Jordan and Gary Beuchler are. So tl;dr: let 'em at the keyboard and pour as much money into whatever the hell they wanna make and let it flop like a fish because normal people are gonna take one look at it and the emptiness of its creators reflected back at them and go "Ew, god, no, get it away from me." Because people like Will Jordan and Gary Beuchler are empty vessels who can offer nothing of value to the world.
What's up fellow and feral BtB listener! Critical Drinker wrote a worse version of my forum novel despite being a professional, check out Encryption Straffe!
Remember years ago when people complained that so many movies were test focused to appeal to the lowest common denominator and nothing interesting or unique was being produced? I sure am glad so many people changed their minds on that. I can’t wait for the years of monogamous content that just recreates what fans already liked for the next 10 yrs…
As someone who lives with a family member who has a crippling alcohol addiction, I don't want someone who calls themselves "The Critical Drinker" near anything i like because most of the time, they tend to ruin things. Plus Drinker has proven time and time again that he doesn't understand the shit he talks about.
Critical Drinker did a review on the Boys bashing it when he didn't even see the blasted thing. He's not a fan of anything, just making money on hate content and Russia checks.
@@Ocelot835 came out pretty recently that a few right-wing slop youtubers were getting paid by russia to spread their shit. don't know if it was CD specifically though
@@Ocelot835 search it up a couple of weeks ago a bunch of news about russia paying reaction and right social media came out. I dont remember critical drinker being one but I wouldn't be suprised
if Mauler or Critical Drinker wrote these films the movie itself would be incredibly bland; the characters would have omniscient knowledge of everything before the events happen. No conflict. No women. Definitely no gays. Only straight, white, chiseled, God-fearing, beautiful, muscular men with fat asses wearing flamboyant costumes. No gays though.
I kind of want to see Nerdrotic, Drinker, Endymion, MauLer, and all of those "fans" write a Star Wars story. Then I want them to totally fuck up and prove they have no idea what they're talking about.
They could try to write some Star Wars, but they would probably rage quit over creative differences when the executives give their notes on whatever they submit
I dunno, man. Between this and CinemaSins' book of really ableist superhero fantasies where the lead character is cured of since-birth blindness, I've got a mild worry that film critics don't really put their preaching into practice when it's their turn to write and direct their own stories.
I used to be a Brony, and if there is one thing I learned after being in the fandom for three years, _never_ _give_ _into_ _the_ _demands_ _of_ _fans_ because that opens a Pandora's Box. As the Brony fandom gained notoriety and traction, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic began to put shoutouts and references to the fandom, this gave just enough Bronies the illusion of control, after all, if the show could include Easter Eggs to appeal to the fandom, what else could they get DHX to put into MLP? What started out as a bit of fun, became a need to pander, the fandom's ego began to grow, thus began to wrestle control of the show's direction in favour of Bronies, and to exclude the children who once were the main demographic for MLP. This was why I left the Brony fandom, every weird idea, every bizarre joke, every episode exploring fan head cannons, every line recognised by Bronies, took me away from G4 MLP, it was no longer the programme I once admired, My Little Pony became a sandbox for every zany fetish for Bronies to play in. The moral of my story is - fans don't know what they want, fans are not writers, nor animators, nor producers, so to give their cockamamie ideas, is to feed their pathological delusions, that they know better than the people who are making the show, that they know better what the fans want, and that these changes would make the show better. Fans such as the Critical Drinker don't know anything about the creative process, they want their favourite programmes to pander to them, and to exclude those they despise, all out of the pathological need to be in control of something, until they ruin the very thing the audience came to love.
I'm not saying I would do a better job but I feel like Drinker would let his personal feelings take over rather than tell a good coherent story that would fit the nature of franchise and it would still have similar negative feedback
From stuff like Mr. Birchum and Drinker’s own books, the answer is “Mary Sues are okay as long as it’s meant to be a parody.” But at this point the general public has had enough and it’s more of “A Mary Sue is a Mary Sue”.
he went into detail criticising rebel moon, so no, he isnt repeating that. Honestly if he was smart and drinker hired a professional writer and simply applied his criticism the result would be better than almost all of disney starwars.
At least Snyder knows how to shoot a movie with style and panache. Fat chance Critical Drinker knows how to do that. Snyder wins just on that alone. And besides, Snyder made 300. That'll be better than anything these people could ever direct in their wildest dreams.
I liked Rebel Moon and I hope there is another part. Now I didn't like it as much as the writers and actors seemed to like it in the BTS though. Like they really took the time to stroke the dude and I was like "This is an enjoyable movie but let's not act like this dude is God's gift to filmmaking"
@@TheGeorgeD13 Oh yeah, the endless shots of slow motion grain, and slow motion abuse every where else, such great cinematography. Also you do know that writers do not direct, right? If this scenario happened a regular director would be hired, and whatever cinematogrpahy they came up with, it would still be bettter than rebel moon.
@@derpherp7432 Writers sometimes direct. Sometimes they don't. And sure he does a lot of slo-mo. It really works for 300 and his first film, Dawn of the Dead, is also pretty good. Those two movies are far better than any of these grifters could ever make.
"Once upon a time, the handsome Jedi, Arthur Whiteskyler, fought against the evil Mari Zu, who wanted to replace all white men with black trans lesbians. But Arthur was an alpha male who used the Bugatti Eagle to take down her army of Feminazi Betas. Arthur won, and white men were allowed to be heterosexual again. The End." It sucks. 🤷🏽♂️
Before even watching the video: Yes. Absolutely! We're talking about a man of the people here, a man who speaks to the soul of the consumer yet is so media literate at the same time, that he can critique an entire season of The Boys without watching it. Clearly there's no one living or dead more qualified for the job than the Drinker.
I honestly think fan focused test groups are a good idea if properly managed, we've seen it work for Sonic, Alien Romulus, Evil Dead, Deadpool and Wolverine, Wakanda Forever, problem is I doubt this will be properly managed and not the anti-woke crowd tries to infect ever single discussion.
Make the critical drinker and lily orchard write, produce, and direct the next Star wars trilogy together. This will benefit no one whatsoever, and will result in disaster. However, the drama this could produce would be perversely entertaining. It’d be like watching a train crash into a military transport carrying explosives in slow motion.
One interesting thing fo look at when it comes to anti-woke backlash is the woke games list going around. Because once you start to look into it you realise that it's heavily weighted by whether the creators like a particular game. If they like a game and want to play it they're willing to look past stuff that would be "woke" in other games because they don't want to concede media they like
Yeah, lists like that are ridiculous. Nowadays, people are even claiming that the new Dragon Age game is too woke. That it used to be so great but is now too woke. Too woke? Dragon Age? The games have been "too woke" for these people from day one. Now, I'm not interested in Veilguard either, for various reasons, but getting too political - or too woke as they say - is not even close to a reasonable reason.
@@marcogenovesi8570 Girl he said he was enjoying it and played for six hours. You wouldn't play a game you are board with for six hours, that's just weird.
I understand why this is coming out in October cause that title is a jumpscare (I'm sure the video's good just my knee-jerk reaction to see Critical Drinker)
@@eddyviews1427 Yes, but with that there is a risk of a series of progressively more radical writers taking the throne. (I’d argue with the left it’s already happened)?
Also. Heres the thing. What Star Wars need is less pandering. Not more. If superfans were allowed to steer the ship. We'd just get more Obi-Wan and Boba-Fett. Star Wars has been run by Filoni into a grey mush of pandering and circle logic. What a fan driven Star Wars would never have given us was Andor. A show that took its characters and stories so seriously that I struggle to comprehend that these are all in the same franchise. The worst thing about ut was that it highlighted how lazy so much of the franchise typically is. When I hear cries that CD should be given his own Star Wars story. I chuckle. Because. Even with Red Letter Media. A group of nerds I really enjoy, who's irreverent insights are fun and engaging. Even with them, I have to remember that they did make Space-Cop. And noone involved are under any false pretenses that they are the next Spielbergs. But I'd much rather watch a Star Wars movie they made than the Snyderistic dreck CD would subject us to. No, the real solution is to give the franchise to storytellers with interesting stories to tell. Not the ones who are in it just to mash toys together. And certainly not people like CD
Critical Drinker is ruthless against modern media and tropes (especially badass female characters), but when you look at his actual passion project movie as well as his books, theyre all so lame and mid stereotypical military/zombie flicks with all the tropes CD himself tears into movies for. All Will Jordan is good for is slinging shit online, the guy couldn't walk the walk as much as he talks the talk even when he tried.
That guy shouldn't even write his own videos. His scripts are so dull, constantly saying the same things over and over and almost devoid of legitimate criticism.
I think if these "critics" were given the chance to write a script for Star Wars or whatever it would be something like that scene from "The Menu" when the chef gives his superfan (Tyler, I think is his name) the chance to make one dish and it is a disaster, because it is easier to pick apart something than it is to make something.
Mario Maker exists for the reason this video suggests allowing Drinker and Nerdrotic to make their own Star Wars: to expose fans who complain about the modern Mario games being too easy at how they are in game design philosphy.
For me I'd also add on how the Sequel Trilogy did shit for POC representation, especially for black actors as John Boyega pointed out multiple times with how he was chosen just for his race, and is drives me CRAZY, how people kept saying "Finn had to learn a lesson" and "John doesn't know his character well" and "There is no racism in TLJ", where what we got there is the most neo-liberal Star Wars movie to date that doesn't even change anything as it failed to do right by actors like John, Oscar and Kelly, but instead give more focus to white leads. "Anyone can be a jedi," except for those who aren't white says Disney/Lucasfilm. For you see, they had to appease the bigots who boycotted TFA for DARING to have a black man as a co-protagonist with a white woman! I don't want to blame Rian entirely for that since that was set up by design by Disney/LF to lead them to where they are now, though his backlash to fans didn't help. But to keep it connected to this video, they need to do right by finding that balance of appeasing the fans (not with this BS) but also allow creativity to thrive from those who know the material they worked on. That worked well for S1 of Mandalorian, but I'm convinced at this point nobody KNOWS what makes Star Wars, Star Wars anymore aside making it look cinematic.
2:29: $12-$14 billion in revenue from Star Wars tells us nothing without knowing what they paid in production costs, marketing, etc. We know that the rights cost them $4 billion, but if the other expenses were $30 billion, that's a massive failure, if they were $10 billion it's a break-even proposition, and if they were "only" another $4 billion it's a success. The word you're looking for that would tell us if Disney is struggling with Star Wars isn't "revenue," it's "profit," which is revenue minus expenses.
@@agramuglia I'm sure someone could do a little Googling and napkin math, just pointing out that saying "$12 billion from $4 billion!" makes it sound like a 300% return on investment, which is not the case.
@@agramuglia not the marketing budgets (not disclosed, usually 50% or more of budget, with SW they are probably higher), and also the box office revenue is ticket sale gross total and split with the cinemas roughly 50%. All the stuff on D+ is just burned money given how they lose billions per quarter until the last one. Merch sales were a huge boon for SW and those numbers are not disclosed either, but anecdotally it does not look good. Even with a generous estimate they are closer to break even than to 300% return.
I think it would have been interesting to go over some of the rewrites that are out there to show why some of these scripts and ideas probably wouldnt be that interesting. Ive listened to a LOT of sequel rewrite stuff and while theres the odd cool idea they tend to circle around the same concepts and characters or expanded universe material, and end up feeling disjointed and out of place. Obviously dont want to shoot down someone being creative online and sharing their ideas but theres definitely a few people who act like they could do better than people actually working in the industry then try and fail to prove it.
As someone who has experience in project management and financing, Critical Drinker and Nerdrotic would chew their own arms off dealing with the chaos that is financing. First off, a movie is made by a studio for one purpose: to be milked for profit for as long as they can. Typically in the USA, that is 10 years. Box office, merch, streaming, syndication, etc. all go into the 10 year cycle of trying to make money off a product. When you are handed hundreds of millions of dollars, you will need to justify every single cent. The accounting records cannot have a dissonance beyond 1% (or whatever small percentage point studios require) because 1% of 100,000,000 can buy a few cars. That's not even getting to the part where you need to deal with investors. My job thankfully didn't require me to put the investors' names or logos everywhere, but for a movie, you'll see the need for product placement. Besides the money part of it, good luck if your film needs to exist in a shared universe. Then you need to collaborate with other writers to make sure you don't step on their toes, sell your idea to the executive in charge that your idea is good enough to overwrite their idea (which may lead to animosity), or hope they don't pay attention to your continuity errors. This isn't even getting into the legal team, standards and practices, and advertising parts that go into film.
It completely makes sense in context, but I did not expect a movie like "Am I Racist?" to be brought up in this video lol. Seeing Matt Walsh's face without warning is like a punch in the gut by someone who clearly has never punched someone in the gut before lmao But as to the actual point of the video, it's very important to remember that the online community of something is not the entire fanbase/target demographic of something. Star Wars UA-cam isn't nearly as big as the audience Disney aims for with this extremely expensive movies and shows and Twitter is just a smaller piece of the Internet than people usually assume it to be. The number of experts in a field is usually far outnumbered by people who just have a passing interest in it.
This “‘superfan’ focus group” idea is one of the most pants-on-head asinine ideas out there. Pandering to these racist, sexist grifters isn’t going to make them shut up - they’re just going to keep finding new things to stir outrage about, because outrage makes bank online. I feel like UA-cam needs to face serious consequences for allowing this kind of hate speech and encouraged harassment to fester online in the first place.
Short answer: no Long answer: Disney’s faults with Star Wars aren’t necessarily that they’re “too woke” the problem emerges when they use diversity as a shield to hide their terrible writing. People like Nerdrotic and Critical Drinker as fun as they are to watch are not writers. I definitely think we need better writers that will focus on the story, but I’d die before I let a UA-camr with no actual film experience write a script for these movies. They’d be just as bad.
@@harlannguyen4048 Pfft, as if. Conservaturds always lack in that one crucial aspect, discipline. Creation is nine tenths discipline to one tenth inspiration.
Well considering he released a shitty short-film (based on his novels) that is basically a knockoff of Jack Ryan, Jack Reacher, Tom Clancy etc. the answer is a big N-O.
Horrible behavior aside (and that's putting aside a lot), I just doubt that he has the talent, skill, and capability to make a good story on his own. All he really has to add to star wars is that he's a fan, that's literally it, doesn't automatically mean his suggestions or ideas will be good.
Can't wait for the scene where the movie stops to explain that women are in fact physically weaker than men, and therefore the female character shouldn't be able to win the fight. Be a real oscar worthy moment right there.
Dave Feloni is already evidence why this wouldn't work out. He keeps retroactively injecting his OCs into plots and making all his favorite characters meet like he's playing with action figures.
His way of responding to the "recent Asian films" question is something I know very well. It happens when you talk confidently about something you actually have no idea about but want to seem like you do. I experienced it a few times at University - wasn't a good feeling. The film Parasite came out in 2019 to critical acclaim but he couldn't think of it. I'm thinking that he didn't actually see it because he only watches modern "woke" Hollywood for his audience. There's also the Netflix show My Name from 2021 which I enjoyed very much. My niece really loves the show All of Us are Dead from 2022. I watched the first episode with her as she was rewatching it now that a new season is coming, and it seemed alright. Asia makes plenty of stuff so it shouldn't be that hard to name something if you actually watch some.
One of the best and most thought provoking Star Wars stories was headed by Chris Avellone when he developed Knights of the Old Republic 2; and Avellone has gone on record to say that he did NOT like Star Wars, and in fact had a distaste for the franchise. And yet he was able to channel that critical energy into creating a thought provoking and interesting take on the world and create a plot that built off of the themes of prior Star Wars stories. Drinker is all image with no substance; he can’t make any thought provoking stories that can offer new and innovative critiques in the central plot because he’s a sycophant for the status quo and can’t perceive of changes In story and attitude as anything beyond a personal attack
I think its nice to have audiance consult for a script... IF THEY DONT CALL SUPER FANS. Call Gradma Penny after her sunday mornig church and ask her and ppl like her what they think.
Yes, yes please, yes! I want to see the shitshow that follows this. The guy that writes Jack Ryan knock-offs that contradict his popular criticism of modern movies is predestined to do this!
The site's been lost, but I think this quote from the Agony Booth is worth immortalizing: "I think there's a great cautionary tale here about what happens when you listen to the fans. Because the hardcore followers of any franchise, Star Trek or otherwise, who make the most noise are generally the ones most bogged down by their own personal hang-ups and obsessions, and therefore the least capable of knowing what would make for a good story." (For context, I think they were reviewing the Deep Space Nine episode "Resurrection")
I watched it he critical drinkers movie trailer… it is exactly as bad as I wanted and needed it to be. I’m so happy to see critics like him put forward their own stories and everyone realizes they have nothing to say.
*Sees the title* Yeah no thanks. Certain UA-camrs should stay away from making stories since they don’t understand story telling. *cough* CinemaSins! *cough*
I'm conflicted with the "just do it" strategy. Sure, mainstream audiences and studios would ultimately reject grifter-infused slop once it is dished out into theaters, but what happens after that? Drinker would just return to UA-cam with a little studio knowledge but also continue his dog whistles and proclaim conspiracies that prevented him from making big movies and why modern movies continue to suck. There might be a net positive of more mainstream audiences going from not knowing who Drinker is to not liking Drinker's filmmaking, but I think the lack of notoriety and acknowledgment vastly damages these grifters more than anything else. So while I'm sure these grifters would make a spectacular mess, I'd still rather not let them have a seat at the adult table only so they can get sent back to the kids' table.
@@timrosswood4259 yep but Rogue One was approved by Disney. It is not a Disney movie per say but a outside company who had an idea for a movie and Disney said Ok and also assisted with special effects. So not Disney in -house writes, but i agree it is the best Star Wars movie since Lucas sold the IP.
I don't think he even hates it, he's just another grifter. Whether or not he's getting paid by Russia (or American oligarchs like Thiel) like some of the others, all he's really passionate about are his merch and patreon numbers.
Letting the anti woke crowd write would produce stuff as bad as what Disney currently produces. I don't like Disney Star Wars, they have made very little that i consider good. But these guys would do no better.
Also, one prediction for what would happen if he did write it: to prove how not racist/sexist he is, there would be at least one minority character......... and his own fans would accuse of him of going woke.
These companies have clearly never spent any time on message boards, because if there's anything that fans hate more than tourists, it's other fans. Like the harassment that actors receive is nothing compared to people sending actual weapons of harm to the houses of people who disagree over which waifu is the best. An actor has to close their social media for a few months, and maybe spend a few sessions in therapy due to fan backlash. Meanwhile some fanartist at a convention is given cookies filled with needles because she draws art of a ship someone else vehemently hates.
Oh you've chosen violence, haven't you Ant? 10/10, no notes, please carry on as you do, love to see it. More seriously though: I kind of want to see him try if only for the inevitable downfall and loss of money and respect (wait, does anyone actually respect Critical Drinker?).
Tbf, as much as I loathe seeing a Critical Drinker Star Wars, it'd be fascinating what sort of (bad) Star Wars movies he or SWT want to make. CD wants to make a militaristic fantasy self-wank like his novels but set in Star Wars; while SWT just wants to make an Anakin/Starkiller fanfic. Both of their movies will mostly just be libertarian/military male power fantasies about overpowered self-inserts, I mean, anti-heroes, surrounded by ass-kissing NPCs, while taking down some metaphor for Society/Big Government they truly hate as stand-ins for an Empire or whatever.
If SWT controlled the star wars IP 98% of his content would be Vader power fantasies and the other 2% would be awful fan service. I'd take the worse of star wars from Disney over his idea of star wars any day.
I feel like there's someone in the studios that is looking at film history without grasping the details. They want to recreate the French New Wave by getting movie Critics to do movies that the audience wants... But noone in charge is bright enough to understand that... None of these internet critics would ever be allowed to touch an issue of Cahiers du Cinema.
Admittedly, my tastes in media are quite limited (not a critic), so my only real basis for Japanese cinema are anime movies and Godzilla stuff. That said, the fact that Minus One didn't even come to Drinker's mind when asked about Japanese films is kinda telling.
@@staffanberg6747 i really hate comparing Minus One to the Kaiju brawl movies. It's unfair to compare big action brawls to thematically resonate narratives.
@@agramuglia even if it is a brawl movie you still should be able to have a coherent story where people in the movie can act with intelligence. So for example in the first Godzilla movie they informed you that the nuclear tests where humans attempt to kill Godzilla and it failed. So when Godzilla arrives in Hawaii then they send in ground troops with 5.56 mm weapons and they start shooting. This is an example of bad writing as they should know if nukes dont hurt something then low caliber weapons certainly wont and that they should have assisted people to evacuate the area etc. instead.
I am still a Critical Drinker viewer. Because I do like when he speaks about his thoughts on what he thinks good medias are, what good stories are and what one should strive for. It is also very nice when he reviews good movies that he also likes. Doesn't mean I always agree with him or that I don't think his videos gets really silly when he tries to find the "forced feminism" or "woke" or "the message". Some videos I disagree with so much that I don't find any enjoyment but others I can. I like him even if I do not always agree with him or think he himself is a competent writer.
Why would you listen to a person who has made absolutely clear that he has no sense of taste and just uses his channel to grift and spread the right wing agenda? There are hundreds of other channels you could watch instead that don't do that.
Albeit that it’s funny to think about, and appropriate for my pettiness, I wouldn’t be able to take them trying to write this for anything another than a quick chuckle. Being in the creative mindset and producing art and receiving it are, at the end of the day, different skills. A writer might dissect fiction far differently than a critic, for things that the audience might not notice at all. Similarly, editors are pivotal to writing but being a good editor is a different skill than being a good writer. My spite for critics like Critical Drinker is because they have a chronic inability to meaningfully and genuinely engage with media. Critical Drinker, as an example, scarcely engages the ideas of a story, has a flow chart of things he chooses to complain about, and uses dog whistles or simplified terms to compensate for genuine criticism. What a “Mary Sue” is isn’t clear. Just complaining about “The Message” isn’t engaging the media. What is “the message”? Why are the ideas in it bad? If it’s due to how heavy handed it may be, then why only complain about that and not other heavy handed and superficial storytelling? Being a good critic is different than being a good writer and critics like him simply want to reduce, reuse, and recycle with how they appeal and engage their target demographic that wants to be mad at something.
Oh definitely not. Thing is, there are a lot of fans out there that THINK they know what's right for the franchise. They'll write fix fics on Star Wars until they're blue in the face, but their fixes usually come from a place of pompousness and thinking that they're the shit. That's not to say a fan can't come up with good fixes to a movie or series. For example, in the new Lego Star Wars special, Darth Jar Jar (a heavily advertised feature) only shows up for less than a minute and instantly dies. Anyone would suggest the fix of "giving him more screentime" and that's something most people can agree on. Critical Drinker would suggest the fix of "Having Darth Rey die instantly instead of Jar Jar, also Jar Jar is now played by a white guy instead of a black guy."
"Should independent internet film critics be allowed to write theatrical franchise films" is not a question we should ever have to ask in a post-To Boldly Flee world
of course it is. Do you seriously think the industry is any more of a meritocracy than UA-cam?
& Strangely enough, & despite having a carpet full of allegations & scaming $90K dollars to his fanbase, Twitter users still love & defend the Channel Awesome productions & the people behind them
@@ulture I think there's a higher barrier to entry in a professional writer's room than "has a webcam and some questionable but very adamant opinions". And I'm sure there are exceptions to that statement but unlike UA-cam that's still not the baseline standard for the entire business model.
@@vegapunk-aurora barriers to entry aren't a good thing, and have nothing to do with meritocracy. they're a woefully inadequate solution to the problem of needing to capture as many eyeballs as possible in order to get to keep going. It doesn't need to be this way.
@@ulture For the sake of clarity I'm going to cut through my own hyperbole here and be more direct about the actual intent of my statements, though personally I think it was fairly clear I wasn't meaning to speak in absolutes.
When I say that To Boldly Flee proves that internet critics should not be entrusted with writing major motion pictures, I did not mean to imply that absolutely no UA-cam media analysts are in any way qualified to produce quality original content. I was merely using an immediate infamous example of that turning out very badly to illustrate the point that being a UA-cam critic is not in itself a qualifying trait for being a professional-grade writer. In particular, critics who are known largely for shallow surface-level analysis, caustic snark, and dismissive smugness for the sake of comedy tend to lack the characteristic emotional intelligence and nuance that make for great, enduring storytelling. Even setting that aside, though, UA-cam is a highly accessible platform that just about anyone can at least theoretically try to take a crack at at any time, and while that's a great thing for art in general, it also means that there's very little skill floor to publishing, and success is often not based on quality of output or guaranteed to be transferable to a different media environment.
Hollywood certainly has its problems with nepotism, trend-chasing, and the like, but at the end of the day you are far more likely to find people within the structure of the larger filmmaking industry to be more skilled an knowledgeable about the craft, whether it be due to study, experience, or just general immersion. It's certainly not a perfect environment for finding a suitable writer for your project, but it's a much more sensible place to start, even if only because the people there are going to at least have some familiarity with the process and environment.
In short, yes I suppose I agree that there should be more equity in the opportunity to write for film and television, and there are many people who have achieved a certain level of success via UA-cam that I'm sure would make for excellent screenwriters and directors. However, being a successful UA-camr does not inherently mean that you are qualified to write for a major franchise. Particularly, as is the Critical Drinker's case, if your entire method of media analysis is the rhetorical equivalent of jingling keys in front of a baby.
Being a megafan is not an indicator of talent.
As if Modern Star Wars has had a gold Standard of quality. Let them take the wheel, whether they fly or fall
@@alexandredesouza3692 At the very least, the newer Star Wars movies and shows have a degree of professional quality(Well, Kenobi aside).
@@alexandredesouza3692Rogue One was great. I enjoyed Andor and The Last Jedi too.
@@timrosswood4259 Oh, Rogue One was EXCELLENT. And I have heard good things about Mandalorian and Andor.
But I've heard much more negative than positive. To me, another bad Star Wars project wouldn't make me blink. At least, a bad Drinker movie would be funny. A surprisingly good movie would be good.
@@timrosswood4259rogue one has flat characters with no arc and does literally nothing interesting with them.
The film looks good and has good battles, but it's story is an absolute mess
If your solution to avoiding backlash from fans is to hire fans to write for you rather than professional writers paid enough to give a damn, you have not learned a single thing. This is appeasement, not a solution driven mindset.
It would certainly feel like a glorified self insert fanfic misunderstanding the messages and themes of the source material
@@albertthepeacock8020 So the average Tumblr fandom post…
@@ExtremeMadnessX Or the most infamous fanfic of all, My Immortal.
Are you kidding the drinker writting a star wars film would be incredible
It would be so uniquely bade that no one will ever take the drinker or other far right youtubers ever again. 🤣
@@Gaia_BentosZX5 I actually would love a My Immortal film adaptation if they play it up as an absurd comedy.
Short answer: No
Long Answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Reminds me of what Bill Parcells said about listening to the fans (he was a Super Bowl winning head coach in the NFL and is in the Hall of Fame): "I love our fans, it's who we play for, but if I listened to them, I'd be joining them in the bleachers next week".
In my experience as both a Sports fan and as fan that has been involved in fan communities for various fictional world, Fans don't know what they want and don't know what they're talking about.
Short answer: No.
Long answer: FUCK no.
This is sounds like the worst idea since the Native Americans decided to welcome Europeans to their land.
Strong Bad, is that you?
It wouldn’t likely be great, but it would be FAR better than the absolute trash writers they have atm. Where’s YOUR solution, genius?
Critical Drinker writing Star Wars would be as bad as when Lily wrote that Star Wars fic shipping herself with Rey.
Lily Orchard wrote a fanfic where she shipped herself with Rey?
@@TheJadedJames Technically, the character was named “Aliana” 🤮. It’s giving Michael Scott / Michael Scarn vibes lmao
I think it's funny that Lily HATES Rey being a think with Ben Solo, because Ben is abusive. Of course Lily's self-insert OC is even more evil and unredeemable than Ben was lol.
@@Grf1556 Y’know it’s funny you say that. If the relationship of Rey x Lily’s self-insert OC is anything like Lily’s real life relationship, you know damn well Rey would be abused and gaslit far worse than anything Kylo would do to her.
I’m not exactly a huge fan of Reylo either, but it’s not because I think Reylo is super abusive. I just think it wasn’t developed very well, and I’m of the personal opinion that Rey had much better chemistry with Finn, but that’s beside the point.
Ew just ew
Something in me says, "Yes." Simply to witness their crash and burn and the responses of Nerdotic and Critical Drinker when 'fans' offer them the same type of criticism that they are content to offer. Incompetence in filmmaking was never accepted by moviegoers or fans.
A focus group with a sit-in by a serious Disney executive would be fine. At the end, the executive could explain to Drinker, SWT, and Nerdrotic in very cutthroat business terms why all their ideas are whiny piss-baby drivel and they are racist, woman-hating turds, that deserve nothing but scorn and disgust. Look, they can imagine all they want that Kathleen Kennedy is stupid, but the fact is that she would destroy their egos in minutes. Easily.
He already has an incredibly sucky spy thriller series out there, and it being shit hasn't stopped him from writing more.
@@milagrosgutierrezmartin9506, Unlike Disney or Star Wars, neurotic and critical drinker works are not a part of popular culture. They can be categorised as indie. As soon as they do something more widespread, everyone will be harshly critical of them and act like kids, blaming everyone and inspecting themselves.
@@milagrosgutierrezmartin9506 Yeah, but no one knows about those, not even his fans. If they get a big popular franchise and make it absolute shit people will see it and then laugh at him for how terrible it is.
I’m with you. I say let them make some movies. And let them fucking suck.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is generally seen as one of the best Star Trek movies ever. And it was written by Nicholas Meyers, a person who'd never watched Star Trek before, but took the time to understand it and added his own ideas.
Disney seem to be laser focusing on the precise opposite approach, so by that logic, Critical Drinker may become the very thing that he swore to destroy.
"You were the chosen one!"
The same thing with Andor, Tony Gilroy has admitted to not being that big of a Star Wars fan, so instead of trying to be this fan-pleasing extravaganza, he focussed on telling his own story and putting his own stamp on the universe while remaining consistent with the series' central themes and ideas, and the end result was not just the best Star Wars show (by some considerable margin, I might add), but arguably one of the best TV shows to come out during the last few years, period.
Drinker uploaded a trailer for a film based on one of his books a few months ago. Interesting to see it get panned by even his own fans because it was filled with the kind of cliches he is apparently above using. The nicest comments were consolations like “it’s really hard to make a film, well done for trying”
Edit: sorry hadn’t got to that part of the video. I should add that I don’t know how involved Drinker was in the production of the film, just that it was based on one of his books, but I think the reaction from his fans is telling.
Even the book was atrocious and it had a female character that his fans would think is a Mary Sue.
If Drinker's take on SW was just his own novels with a SW coat of paint slapped on top, omg would it ever get torn apart by audiences, critics, and his own fans.
His justification: “It’s a parody! Not a serious story!”
Didn't he used Kickstarter to finance the short and wrote the script?
The best review I saw about the Critical Drinker's movie was "A movie so anti-woke it'll put you right to sleep."
We saw what happened when Lily Orchard wrote My Little Pony content...
The difference is Lily is an insane person with very messed up morals.
Really 😮
🤢🤮
We're not gonna stop kicking this dead horse, right? I mean, it's cruel, but I'm all for it. I'm petty like that.
@@francofernandes2006 She tried to nuke his channel when it came to critique. Do you think these "fans" will take critique well? This is why Poochie as a concept is aging far better than it should be. The Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie Show, the Simpsons S14E08, heavily dunked on fan-driven focus groups. Not to mention Spongebob Squarepants: Freestyle Funnies 2017 had a panel dunking on Free Comic Book Day, a hail mary to save a dying industry caused by the problem from the lethal combination of a lack of variety and a monopolistic distribution system. By the time Rippaverse finally released Isom and Transformers was picked up by Skybound, the industry basically was left in a zombified state, flatlined since there's a lot of references in these comics that only fans would get, alienating potential new readers. Not to mention having fans take the wheel while there's an ongoing problem with executive meddling will create media that will make Borderlands look like a masterpiece in comparison.
The studios should also keep in mind: Even if you do what they say, exactly how they tell you, they will probably still be unhappy with the end result and blame it entirely on you.
You could say that about any fandom tho 🤷♂️
Totally, I honestly believe that's Star Wars' biggest issue under Disney.
The Rise of Skywalker already seemed to aggressively try to address the haters of the Last Jedi. They didn't win anyone back and they just ended up losing more people who were still on board.
Even if these grifters were given Carte Blanche to make their dream genre movie with minimal studio interference, they still will find a scapegoat to blame their movie’s box-office bomb.
"Modern audiences just aren't ready for such a bold traditional take on story telling. It doesn't help that the marketing depart we hired was, unbeknownst to us, a subsidiary of black rock. Yes. That black rock.
Our series was quiet cancelled by these so card marketers before the movie even came out. We gave them our money, and they did fuck all with it."
Sounds like something Todd Phillips would do lol
Either way Drinker's Star Wars will probably be worse than Disney Wars
Critics suck as filmmakers. I have seen time and time again that they maybe be good at picking things apart, but when they start writing themselves, they are hilariously ignorant towards everything they do wrong.
It's one thing to look at a finished product you had no part in making and point out all the things wrong with it. It's another entirely to take your criticisms and figure out, "Hm, now how can we change this to make it work?" And then it's another other thing to *actually make it work.*
François Truffaut, Jean-Luc Goddard, Olivier Assayas, and Park Chan-Wook would be good counterpoints.
Sadly that's right. You might know what writing choices are wrong, but that doesn't mean you know how to take and execute the right ones. It's the kind of problem I got from trying to learn writing from youtube essays. Knowing how nitpick things isn't even half the battle.
Honestly? The biggest problem with modern Star Wars is that it’s trying TOO HARD to appeal to fans. Disney is too preoccupied with nostalgia bait to tell compelling stories. People like CD would just make that problem worse, while also making the movies more racist and sexist
The fact that Andor didn't try to appeal to fans is one of the reasons why it's great.
You are joking right? If they would try to appeal to star wars fans hard and not play it super mega save to try to appeal to the biggest audience, than they wouldn't have nuked the legend content and made movies out of the most beloved books. If your sense of appealing to fans is just nostalgia bait than that's sad.
They butcherd the Mandalorians by not including culture and invented a "don't remove your helmet"-tradition and called it culture. No music, no traditional language, no ancient strongholds, no clones, no battle training, no bounty hunting, no meaning for armor color, no alien mandalorians. The only thing they got correct is the armor and that mandalorians are an adopted family thing and even the family thing was shallow as hell.
Everything they do is the most milktoast boring stuff and they do the politic stuff on top of it. And it makes a bad product cringy. If they would make a good product, the politic stuff wouldn't be that bad.
The legend stories are partialy very dark and Andor is exactly a story that would fit into the content from Star Wars legends.
Bro what 😕
I wouldn't say that's the primary problem. Certainly a factor. There's also a counter element of trying too hard to be "different," and "subversive," to the point where it doesn't hold up as a story, which is what I think happened to TLJ and the Acolyte. I would say that Andor is the only one that has escaped both problems entirely
@@Bigbluedragon9 the fact that your criteria you're using to valorise EU stuff is that "it's dark" and that that's what made Andor great (instead of yknow... having a compelling story, no desire to tie into the other shows, and rather strong political stances) says it all about the depth of your ideas.
the fact that your complaint about the Mandos is that they didn't *adhere* to made-up autism details instead of the obvious critique from the details you cite being that they're... boring... says it all.
the milquetoast stuff is BECAUSE they dont want to offend fans and overgrown babies. what are the "politic stuff" that's in the shows you dont like (assuming Kenobi, Ahsoka, later season Mando? Acolyte etc.) Is it that there are brown people? That there are women? Surely it's more than just that that caught your ire :)
Sure if you want to go bankrupt.
(I can't believe I watched people like Drinker and agreed with them. Thank F@CK I got out of that rabbit hole.)
I was in the same situation luckily now I'm as far away as possible for that rabbit hole
I moved a boulder over the rabbit hole in the hopes no one would ever fall down it again.
@@ieuansmith518 trust me, friend there’s a lot worse rabbit holes you can go down
You made my day with your comment. Gives me hope for proper fandom and genre discourse in the future.
@@purplespectrewtf did you specifically do?
Here's my guess on what characters/storyline CD would put in a SW movie just based off of his reviews:
- a strong stoic cis-het white man
- a damsel in distress that's eye candy
- probably set around the rise of the empire or prequels
- absolutely no strong women, people of color, or anything mentioning gender
the first star wars to have an ending screen crawl to explain the ending to really show that the dude and the chick lived happily ever after
Also plots that are "consistent" but also boring.
That is misrepresentation of CD: The Damsel must also be girlboss because the MC need to have the coolest girlfriend.
Don't forget the copious mentions of Russian prostitutes!
No. It not due to his politics but rather that I know that he can’t understand teaming.
Everything has to be spelled out in front of him or he can’t understand it. This means he can’t tie politics into his stories and have it fit the landscape of an existing universe.
I think he could make a science fiction movie even if I think it would be boring he could write it. Drinker comes off as someone who likes movies but doesn’t understand them.
I don't think he even likes movies, I think he enjoys ranting and making money off twits.
@@leviadragon99 I honestly think he is just is too stupid to understand basic ways of structuring a story.
I think Drinker genuinely just is too dumb to understand Glass Onion. He honestly blames the movie for not making sense because he doesn’t understand it.
Drinker is the kind of person who needs the exposition in Blade Runner.
"Drinker comes off as someone who likes movies but doesn’t understand them"
Remember when he made a vid talking about how Japanese movies are superior to movies from the west, but his examples were primarily ones from China and Korea?
@@MattEldritchHorror Yeah, and honestly without some sort of fairy deep understanding of culture you just shouldn’t be making such statements.
For example I find it fascinating how eastern cultures have you kill god. Notice I didn’t name a specific national culture, dumb teenager n0etic say Japan and not eastern cultures.
I am smart enough to know I am ignorant of exactly where the trope originated from and there is no way I can tell if this has distinct features from culture to culture.
To me Old Boy doesn’t feel like a movie made in Japan, it just feels different, not better or worse, just not Japanese. I am correct because I let myself doubt.
Drinker just wants to stick it to “Wokewood” and call it Japanese because he likes the movie despite not actually understanding it.
For me it is definitely about his politics. Regardless if the dude has talent in filmmaking or not (which he apparently does not). But his politics will inevitably leak out into his film making. I have literally never seen a film maker not put some of their own politics in their movies. I don't think I've ever seen a non political film anyway.
"Markiplier the film producer" feels surreal to hear for someone who's been watching him for ages
should we let The "Disney is making everything woke and that's why they're failing" crowd write a Star Wars (or anything nerd related really) movie/TV show
logical answer is Hell No
illogical answer is absolutely, for the extremely petty reason of watching them crash and burn horribly and prove that at the end of the day they don't actually CARE about these franchises, they care about bigotry and personal gains from grifting/rage bait.
My opinion on this is "Give a drinker the car keys and he'll never bother you again."
I'm convinced a significant portion of the backlash is driven by grifters and bots. Remember when it was revealed that 90% of the Snydercut movement was artificially generated? The modern engagement cycle thrives on this kind of manipulation, and with the way grifting has been embedded into online discourse, it’s not going anywhere. Grifters understand what Fox News has known for decades: anger sells.
Regardless of complaints, let’s not forget that the Sequel Trilogy still grossed over a billion dollars each. The brand is undeniably strong.
This feels like a massive over-correction. The studio should focus on learning the right lessons from their recent missteps and moving forward. Otherwise, this could end up being as misguided as letting ChatGPT write the next Star Wars trilogy.
Remwber that writer Jean-Paul Marat? Guy was murder in his bathtub over his extremist rhetoric during the French Revolution.
Didn't they determine that 13 per cent of the Snydercut push was from Bots? That might be a lot of Bots but not a lot of the actual people. It ignores that there were a lot of actual people who wanted it to be released, whether annoying or not, not to mention Snyder himself. To imply that not a lot of people cared is really silly. You're not wrong on everything else though.
Chris Ray Gun has gone on record as saying that he got offers from big conservative orgs to make his channel a right wing political one, and part of the deal was that they'd help boost his profile by engaging in viewbotting so it would get picked up by the algorithm easier. These people cheat and do it blatantly.
And as the situation with Tenent Media has illustrated, there's a greater than 0 chance that those orgs are fronts for foreign despots.
3:38 No, nor exactly, George has ALWAYS BEEN pretty experimental with his art, & since he was getting older he sold Star Wars because HE WANTED TO FOCUS ON OTHER DIFFERENT PROJECTS with his remaining time & allow someone else keep the franchise alive
He didn't sold it because of the Prequel Backlash, he sold it because he was simply DONE with tue franchise after so many decades
For comparison, One Piece Live Action cost 18 million per episode, which is, admittedly, STILL a lot of money, but they allocated those funds into bringing the world to life as practically as possible so they can have the show look as tangible as possible while using the rest of the money where it could benefit it the most (like the CGI). The fact that every single character here is a real person with makeup effects and camera trickery instead of using CGI to recreate any of em (except when it’s absolutely necessary), goes to show that while having a smaller budget should be the norm so as not to risk failure, what matters is also how that budget is used. I love The Acolyte, but that show did NOT need to cost 180 million dollars. What were they even thinking?
You might not be aware of this but tv show budget have been growing for a while and the pandemic cost surge has not gone away. The budget doesn’t come off as all that surprising sayid your not gonna use cost cutting measure like lots of green screen and CGI.
The budget might go up when they add Chopper and Brook, though, along with maybe Jinbei.
@@austinreed7343Yeah that's true it might 😨😨😨😨😨😨😨😨
Fans shouldn’t be anywhere near the writer’s seat. Just because you like something or can critique it doesn’t mean you can write anything.
I do believe that there’s a place for fans in the producer’s seat tho. Don’t give them power over the details, it’ll only end in tragedy, but I think that listening to fans when it comes to the general direction is worth exploring
Exactly. I like the Simpsons, that doesn’t mean I can barge into the writer’s room and demand a seat.
So Dave Felloni should not have his job then? No fans allowed you said.
@antonakesson Filoni is a professional with lots of other work on his resume. That is not who OP is talking about on a video about Drinker.
Fan focus groups are a TERRIBLE Idea. That said, I do have a couple examples of DreamWorks Animation benefiting from focus groups: both "All Star" being in Shrek and Hiccup's disability in HTTYD were originally going to be cut. Test audiences LOVED both of these, so they were kept. "All Star" is the perfect way to open Shrek, since it establishes the tone for the rest of the movie. And both disabled children and their parents love seeing a disabled hero star in an animated film about dragons. It makes the story's themes that much stronger.
Can I get to write the next Star Wars? It will be about the existential horror of the Force and the illusion of choice.
Also, given The Man with Future Liver Problems' books, I don't think he would be hired anyway.
Oh man! That sounds awesome! It's insightful, it's challenging, and it adds nuance to the Star Wars universe. So of course the fanboys will hate it!
That sounds pretty cool and also a bit of an adaptation of Kotor 2
So kotor2
@@googamp32 That's why I think they phrase "We hired Non star wars fans" is both a blessing and a curse. Since If someone who isn't a fan but knows the lore and source material, they could insert their own ideas and story into this universe. The best example is ofc Andor since Tony Gilroy doesn't really like star wars but likes the world and knows the source material and was able to make something amazing.
@@jaxonhumphreys671 KOTOR 2 if we assume that Kreia was right. I think there's room for disagreeing with her, even if she is a VERY good villain.
The answer is no. However, Imagine the damage he could do to Disney. Let him in, coach.
If Drinker ends up destroying Disney, then what will he have to complain about then?
@@MarcMcKenzie-qb6or
He’d go for anime, I guess.
@@MarcMcKenzie-qb6or
The grifters have started to turn against anime and DC.
@@austinreed7343 Nothing is safe from those grifters.
@@austinreed7343nah, it's Japanese so he'd never find it.
I often go back to what Robert Evans said in regards to conservative and/or reactionary attempts to mark art for themselves, said in particularly about Ben Shapiro's terrible novel but also broadly speaking too. The process of creating art involves putting your own interior consciousness on display for all to see and then analyze and react to--not just your conscious thought, but the things you unconsciously believe and hold as universal truths in your life. Specifically how empty your interiority is if you tend to be as rigidly conservative in your outlooks as people like Will Jordan and Gary Beuchler are.
So tl;dr: let 'em at the keyboard and pour as much money into whatever the hell they wanna make and let it flop like a fish because normal people are gonna take one look at it and the emptiness of its creators reflected back at them and go "Ew, god, no, get it away from me." Because people like Will Jordan and Gary Beuchler are empty vessels who can offer nothing of value to the world.
What's up fellow and feral BtB listener! Critical Drinker wrote a worse version of my forum novel despite being a professional, check out Encryption Straffe!
The drinker is more concerned about pushing far-right nonsense than engaging in actual criticism not to mention he has no media literacy.
Remember years ago when people complained that so many movies were test focused to appeal to the lowest common denominator and nothing interesting or unique was being produced? I sure am glad so many people changed their minds on that. I can’t wait for the years of monogamous content that just recreates what fans already liked for the next 10 yrs…
You telling me you don't like films were you have to read five 2000 page books to understand what happning I guess your not a real fan then
The Critical Drinker is like the guy asking if he could make decisions and then when all his decisions go wrong he blames everyone but him.
Anti-woke projects in a nutshell.
As someone who lives with a family member who has a crippling alcohol addiction, I don't want someone who calls themselves "The Critical Drinker" near anything i like because most of the time, they tend to ruin things. Plus Drinker has proven time and time again that he doesn't understand the shit he talks about.
If you wanna see Venom topping Joker, there's always DeviantArt.
Critical Drinker did a review on the Boys bashing it when he didn't even see the blasted thing. He's not a fan of anything, just making money on hate content and Russia checks.
> Russian checks
Wait what? Where that did came out
@@Ocelot835 he's friends with Tim pool and the folks over at Tenet Media. They've all been on the Friday Night Tights podcast that Nerdrotic posts.
@@Ocelot835 came out pretty recently that a few right-wing slop youtubers were getting paid by russia to spread their shit. don't know if it was CD specifically though
@@Ocelot835 search it up a couple of weeks ago a bunch of news about russia paying reaction and right social media came out. I dont remember critical drinker being one but I wouldn't be suprised
@@Ocelot835
Drinker himself has no known russian ties, but other right wing grifter like tim pool and dave rubin absolutely do
if Mauler or Critical Drinker wrote these films the movie itself would be incredibly bland; the characters would have omniscient knowledge of everything before the events happen. No conflict. No women. Definitely no gays. Only straight, white, chiseled, God-fearing, beautiful, muscular men with fat asses wearing flamboyant costumes. No gays though.
Mauler writing it would make the film needlessly four hours long
@@agramuglia Him and Zack Snyder should team up...
Something like Top Gun Maverick, but also pretty unimaginative at the end.
I kind of want to see Nerdrotic, Drinker, Endymion, MauLer, and all of those "fans" write a Star Wars story. Then I want them to totally fuck up and prove they have no idea what they're talking about.
I am curious too!
Or they literally just put down a copy of those Thaun books with ranchy humor shoved in and also killing a young Rey.
They could try to write some Star Wars, but they would probably rage quit over creative differences when the executives give their notes on whatever they submit
MauLer's the only one I could see writing something at least decent. The other three? *Nah.*
@kroganshepard6594 No one wants to watch Mauler's 19 hour long Star Wars filibuster movie.
Short Answer: Absolutely fucking not.
Long Answer: INCOMING RANT VIDEO.
I dunno, man. Between this and CinemaSins' book of really ableist superhero fantasies where the lead character is cured of since-birth blindness, I've got a mild worry that film critics don't really put their preaching into practice when it's their turn to write and direct their own stories.
I used to be a Brony, and if there is one thing I learned after being in the fandom for three years, _never_ _give_ _into_ _the_ _demands_ _of_ _fans_ because that opens a Pandora's Box. As the Brony fandom gained notoriety and traction, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic began to put shoutouts and references to the fandom, this gave just enough Bronies the illusion of control, after all, if the show could include Easter Eggs to appeal to the fandom, what else could they get DHX to put into MLP? What started out as a bit of fun, became a need to pander, the fandom's ego began to grow, thus began to wrestle control of the show's direction in favour of Bronies, and to exclude the children who once were the main demographic for MLP. This was why I left the Brony fandom, every weird idea, every bizarre joke, every episode exploring fan head cannons, every line recognised by Bronies, took me away from G4 MLP, it was no longer the programme I once admired, My Little Pony became a sandbox for every zany fetish for Bronies to play in. The moral of my story is - fans don't know what they want, fans are not writers, nor animators, nor producers, so to give their cockamamie ideas, is to feed their pathological delusions, that they know better than the people who are making the show, that they know better what the fans want, and that these changes would make the show better. Fans such as the Critical Drinker don't know anything about the creative process, they want their favourite programmes to pander to them, and to exclude those they despise, all out of the pathological need to be in control of something, until they ruin the very thing the audience came to love.
HELL NO! He'd kill the franchise!
Ye
But would it be faster than how it's dying right now?
@@0cedced Oh! Definitely!
Who wouldn't kill the franchise at this point
I'm not saying I would do a better job but I feel like Drinker would let his personal feelings take over rather than tell a good coherent story that would fit the nature of franchise and it would still have similar negative feedback
Actually i would realy want to see this. Just to see how bad it would flop and how bad the cope would be.
From stuff like Mr. Birchum and Drinker’s own books, the answer is “Mary Sues are okay as long as it’s meant to be a parody.” But at this point the general public has had enough and it’s more of “A Mary Sue is a Mary Sue”.
More like mary sues are okay when its men doing it.
Let's be honest here, if we let Critical Drinker write Star Wars, all we'd end up with would be Rebel Moon part 3.
he went into detail criticising rebel moon, so no, he isnt repeating that. Honestly if he was smart and drinker hired a professional writer and simply applied his criticism the result would be better than almost all of disney starwars.
At least Snyder knows how to shoot a movie with style and panache. Fat chance Critical Drinker knows how to do that. Snyder wins just on that alone.
And besides, Snyder made 300. That'll be better than anything these people could ever direct in their wildest dreams.
I liked Rebel Moon and I hope there is another part. Now I didn't like it as much as the writers and actors seemed to like it in the BTS though. Like they really took the time to stroke the dude and I was like "This is an enjoyable movie but let's not act like this dude is God's gift to filmmaking"
@@TheGeorgeD13 Oh yeah, the endless shots of slow motion grain, and slow motion abuse every where else, such great cinematography. Also you do know that writers do not direct, right? If this scenario happened a regular director would be hired, and whatever cinematogrpahy they came up with, it would still be bettter than rebel moon.
@@derpherp7432 Writers sometimes direct. Sometimes they don't. And sure he does a lot of slo-mo. It really works for 300 and his first film, Dawn of the Dead, is also pretty good.
Those two movies are far better than any of these grifters could ever make.
"Once upon a time, the handsome Jedi, Arthur Whiteskyler, fought against the evil Mari Zu, who wanted to replace all white men with black trans lesbians. But Arthur was an alpha male who used the Bugatti Eagle to take down her army of Feminazi Betas. Arthur won, and white men were allowed to be heterosexual again.
The End."
It sucks. 🤷🏽♂️
Before even watching the video: Yes. Absolutely! We're talking about a man of the people here, a man who speaks to the soul of the consumer yet is so media literate at the same time, that he can critique an entire season of The Boys without watching it.
Clearly there's no one living or dead more qualified for the job than the Drinker.
I honestly think fan focused test groups are a good idea if properly managed, we've seen it work for Sonic, Alien Romulus, Evil Dead, Deadpool and Wolverine, Wakanda Forever, problem is I doubt this will be properly managed and not the anti-woke crowd tries to infect ever single discussion.
Make the critical drinker and lily orchard write, produce, and direct the next Star wars trilogy together. This will benefit no one whatsoever, and will result in disaster. However, the drama this could produce would be perversely entertaining. It’d be like watching a train crash into a military transport carrying explosives in slow motion.
One interesting thing fo look at when it comes to anti-woke backlash is the woke games list going around. Because once you start to look into it you realise that it's heavily weighted by whether the creators like a particular game.
If they like a game and want to play it they're willing to look past stuff that would be "woke" in other games because they don't want to concede media they like
Tl:dr - they’re 40 year old children who only see in black and white, I like = good, I don’t like = bad, zero shades of grey
That Starfield Pronouns guy streamed the game for 6 hours and enjoyed it till he found something "Too Woke"
Yeah, lists like that are ridiculous. Nowadays, people are even claiming that the new Dragon Age game is too woke. That it used to be so great but is now too woke. Too woke? Dragon Age? The games have been "too woke" for these people from day one. Now, I'm not interested in Veilguard either, for various reasons, but getting too political - or too woke as they say - is not even close to a reasonable reason.
@@dillydraws No he did not, he was bored out of his mind, I was there during the streams
@@marcogenovesi8570 Girl he said he was enjoying it and played for six hours. You wouldn't play a game you are board with for six hours, that's just weird.
I understand why this is coming out in October cause that title is a jumpscare (I'm sure the video's good just my knee-jerk reaction to see Critical Drinker)
Same
The drinker couldn't even accurately relay the plot of Godzilla vs. Kong. He wouldn't be able to write anything of merit for Star Wars.
Critical drinker's content is garbage and not analytical in any notable or valuable way. So no.
I hate the idea of bad faith grifters posing as 'fans' having any influence on art, personally.
I’m morbidly curious about just how bad these movies would be.
“Let him cook!”
I’m even more curious of the potential betrayals of their inner circle. There would a ton of clip-able moments.
@@eddyviews1427
Yes, but with that there is a risk of a series of progressively more radical writers taking the throne. (I’d argue with the left it’s already happened)?
Also. Heres the thing. What Star Wars need is less pandering. Not more. If superfans were allowed to steer the ship. We'd just get more Obi-Wan and Boba-Fett. Star Wars has been run by Filoni into a grey mush of pandering and circle logic.
What a fan driven Star Wars would never have given us was Andor. A show that took its characters and stories so seriously that I struggle to comprehend that these are all in the same franchise. The worst thing about ut was that it highlighted how lazy so much of the franchise typically is.
When I hear cries that CD should be given his own Star Wars story. I chuckle. Because. Even with Red Letter Media. A group of nerds I really enjoy, who's irreverent insights are fun and engaging. Even with them, I have to remember that they did make Space-Cop. And noone involved are under any false pretenses that they are the next Spielbergs.
But I'd much rather watch a Star Wars movie they made than the Snyderistic dreck CD would subject us to.
No, the real solution is to give the franchise to storytellers with interesting stories to tell. Not the ones who are in it just to mash toys together. And certainly not people like CD
Critical Drinker is ruthless against modern media and tropes (especially badass female characters), but when you look at his actual passion project movie as well as his books, theyre all so lame and mid stereotypical military/zombie flicks with all the tropes CD himself tears into movies for. All Will Jordan is good for is slinging shit online, the guy couldn't walk the walk as much as he talks the talk even when he tried.
“But they’re meant to be parodies herpaderp!”
That guy shouldn't even write his own videos. His scripts are so dull, constantly saying the same things over and over and almost devoid of legitimate criticism.
If It’s anything like his book fuck no lol.
I think if these "critics" were given the chance to write a script for Star Wars or whatever it would be something like that scene from "The Menu" when the chef gives his superfan (Tyler, I think is his name) the chance to make one dish and it is a disaster, because it is easier to pick apart something than it is to make something.
Mario Maker exists for the reason this video suggests allowing Drinker and Nerdrotic to make their own Star Wars: to expose fans who complain about the modern Mario games being too easy at how they are in game design philosphy.
No it doesn't tf are you talking about
When art critics think they can be better artists than the artists they criticize.
Good luck, boys 🤗
For me I'd also add on how the Sequel Trilogy did shit for POC representation, especially for black actors as John Boyega pointed out multiple times with how he was chosen just for his race, and is drives me CRAZY, how people kept saying "Finn had to learn a lesson" and "John doesn't know his character well" and "There is no racism in TLJ", where what we got there is the most neo-liberal Star Wars movie to date that doesn't even change anything as it failed to do right by actors like John, Oscar and Kelly, but instead give more focus to white leads. "Anyone can be a jedi," except for those who aren't white says Disney/Lucasfilm. For you see, they had to appease the bigots who boycotted TFA for DARING to have a black man as a co-protagonist with a white woman!
I don't want to blame Rian entirely for that since that was set up by design by Disney/LF to lead them to where they are now, though his backlash to fans didn't help. But to keep it connected to this video, they need to do right by finding that balance of appeasing the fans (not with this BS) but also allow creativity to thrive from those who know the material they worked on. That worked well for S1 of Mandalorian, but I'm convinced at this point nobody KNOWS what makes Star Wars, Star Wars anymore aside making it look cinematic.
2:29: $12-$14 billion in revenue from Star Wars tells us nothing without knowing what they paid in production costs, marketing, etc. We know that the rights cost them $4 billion, but if the other expenses were $30 billion, that's a massive failure, if they were $10 billion it's a break-even proposition, and if they were "only" another $4 billion it's a success.
The word you're looking for that would tell us if Disney is struggling with Star Wars isn't "revenue," it's "profit," which is revenue minus expenses.
We know most of this information, actually. We know the budgets of all Star Wars properties
@@agramuglia I'm sure someone could do a little Googling and napkin math, just pointing out that saying "$12 billion from $4 billion!" makes it sound like a 300% return on investment, which is not the case.
@@agramuglia not the marketing budgets (not disclosed, usually 50% or more of budget, with SW they are probably higher), and also the box office revenue is ticket sale gross total and split with the cinemas roughly 50%.
All the stuff on D+ is just burned money given how they lose billions per quarter until the last one.
Merch sales were a huge boon for SW and those numbers are not disclosed either, but anecdotally it does not look good.
Even with a generous estimate they are closer to break even than to 300% return.
I think it would have been interesting to go over some of the rewrites that are out there to show why some of these scripts and ideas probably wouldnt be that interesting. Ive listened to a LOT of sequel rewrite stuff and while theres the odd cool idea they tend to circle around the same concepts and characters or expanded universe material, and end up feeling disjointed and out of place. Obviously dont want to shoot down someone being creative online and sharing their ideas but theres definitely a few people who act like they could do better than people actually working in the industry then try and fail to prove it.
As someone who has experience in project management and financing, Critical Drinker and Nerdrotic would chew their own arms off dealing with the chaos that is financing. First off, a movie is made by a studio for one purpose: to be milked for profit for as long as they can. Typically in the USA, that is 10 years. Box office, merch, streaming, syndication, etc. all go into the 10 year cycle of trying to make money off a product. When you are handed hundreds of millions of dollars, you will need to justify every single cent. The accounting records cannot have a dissonance beyond 1% (or whatever small percentage point studios require) because 1% of 100,000,000 can buy a few cars. That's not even getting to the part where you need to deal with investors. My job thankfully didn't require me to put the investors' names or logos everywhere, but for a movie, you'll see the need for product placement. Besides the money part of it, good luck if your film needs to exist in a shared universe. Then you need to collaborate with other writers to make sure you don't step on their toes, sell your idea to the executive in charge that your idea is good enough to overwrite their idea (which may lead to animosity), or hope they don't pay attention to your continuity errors. This isn't even getting into the legal team, standards and practices, and advertising parts that go into film.
It completely makes sense in context, but I did not expect a movie like "Am I Racist?" to be brought up in this video lol. Seeing Matt Walsh's face without warning is like a punch in the gut by someone who clearly has never punched someone in the gut before lmao
But as to the actual point of the video, it's very important to remember that the online community of something is not the entire fanbase/target demographic of something. Star Wars UA-cam isn't nearly as big as the audience Disney aims for with this extremely expensive movies and shows and Twitter is just a smaller piece of the Internet than people usually assume it to be. The number of experts in a field is usually far outnumbered by people who just have a passing interest in it.
No, don't make your fans the majority-stake.
A. This never takes new IPs into account. No fanbases from which to draw.
B. Fans are insatiable-beasts.
This “‘superfan’ focus group” idea is one of the most pants-on-head asinine ideas out there. Pandering to these racist, sexist grifters isn’t going to make them shut up - they’re just going to keep finding new things to stir outrage about, because outrage makes bank online.
I feel like UA-cam needs to face serious consequences for allowing this kind of hate speech and encouraged harassment to fester online in the first place.
And when one is laughed out of the room, another one, more radicalized, will take their place until we get William Luther Pierce.
Short answer: no
Long answer: Disney’s faults with Star Wars aren’t necessarily that they’re “too woke” the problem emerges when they use diversity as a shield to hide their terrible writing. People like Nerdrotic and Critical Drinker as fun as they are to watch are not writers. I definitely think we need better writers that will focus on the story, but I’d die before I let a UA-camr with no actual film experience write a script for these movies. They’d be just as bad.
I'm sure he won't make the franchise worse than Disney's Sequel Trilogy. (That was sarcasm in case you didn't get it)
For one thing, Critical Drinker would have a plan in place from the start.
@@harlannguyen4048 Pfft, as if. Conservaturds always lack in that one crucial aspect, discipline. Creation is nine tenths discipline to one tenth inspiration.
Well considering he released a shitty short-film (based on his novels) that is basically a knockoff of Jack Ryan, Jack Reacher, Tom Clancy etc. the answer is a big N-O.
Horrible behavior aside (and that's putting aside a lot), I just doubt that he has the talent, skill, and capability to make a good story on his own. All he really has to add to star wars is that he's a fan, that's literally it, doesn't automatically mean his suggestions or ideas will be good.
Can't wait for the scene where the movie stops to explain that women are in fact physically weaker than men, and therefore the female character shouldn't be able to win the fight. Be a real oscar worthy moment right there.
Dave Feloni is already evidence why this wouldn't work out.
He keeps retroactively injecting his OCs into plots and making all his favorite characters meet like he's playing with action figures.
that doesnt really seem like an inherently bad thing
So-called critics can only destroy, not create.
His way of responding to the "recent Asian films" question is something I know very well. It happens when you talk confidently about something you actually have no idea about but want to seem like you do. I experienced it a few times at University - wasn't a good feeling.
The film Parasite came out in 2019 to critical acclaim but he couldn't think of it. I'm thinking that he didn't actually see it because he only watches modern "woke" Hollywood for his audience. There's also the Netflix show My Name from 2021 which I enjoyed very much. My niece really loves the show All of Us are Dead from 2022. I watched the first episode with her as she was rewatching it now that a new season is coming, and it seemed alright. Asia makes plenty of stuff so it shouldn't be that hard to name something if you actually watch some.
One of the best and most thought provoking Star Wars stories was headed by Chris Avellone when he developed Knights of the Old Republic 2; and Avellone has gone on record to say that he did NOT like Star Wars, and in fact had a distaste for the franchise. And yet he was able to channel that critical energy into creating a thought provoking and interesting take on the world and create a plot that built off of the themes of prior Star Wars stories.
Drinker is all image with no substance; he can’t make any thought provoking stories that can offer new and innovative critiques in the central plot because he’s a sycophant for the status quo and can’t perceive of changes In story and attitude as anything beyond a personal attack
Cant wait for the eventual video essays about "films from the Critical Drinker's code era"
I think its nice to have audiance consult for a script... IF THEY DONT CALL SUPER FANS. Call Gradma Penny after her sunday mornig church and ask her and ppl like her what they think.
Yes, yes please, yes! I want to see the shitshow that follows this.
The guy that writes Jack Ryan knock-offs that contradict his popular criticism of modern movies is predestined to do this!
The site's been lost, but I think this quote from the Agony Booth is worth immortalizing:
"I think there's a great cautionary tale here about what happens when you listen to the fans. Because the hardcore followers of any franchise, Star Trek or otherwise, who make the most noise are generally the ones most bogged down by their own personal hang-ups and obsessions, and therefore the least capable of knowing what would make for a good story."
(For context, I think they were reviewing the Deep Space Nine episode "Resurrection")
I watched it he critical drinkers movie trailer… it is exactly as bad as I wanted and needed it to be. I’m so happy to see critics like him put forward their own stories and everyone realizes they have nothing to say.
It's kinda ironic how much they seem to absolutely depise the mainstream but also disparately want to be the mainstream
So like the Daily Wire
They want the mainstream to be good
@@marcogenovesi8570 No because even when mainstream is good they will still cry "WOKE!" and make a sh!tstorm.
@@marcogenovesi8570
No they don't.
@@dalekrenegade2596 yes they do.
*Sees the title* Yeah no thanks. Certain UA-camrs should stay away from making stories since they don’t understand story telling. *cough* CinemaSins! *cough*
On the one hand, it would be funny to watch those guys self destruct.
On the other hand, I would rather have good stories.
I'm conflicted with the "just do it" strategy. Sure, mainstream audiences and studios would ultimately reject grifter-infused slop once it is dished out into theaters, but what happens after that? Drinker would just return to UA-cam with a little studio knowledge but also continue his dog whistles and proclaim conspiracies that prevented him from making big movies and why modern movies continue to suck. There might be a net positive of more mainstream audiences going from not knowing who Drinker is to not liking Drinker's filmmaking, but I think the lack of notoriety and acknowledgment vastly damages these grifters more than anything else. So while I'm sure these grifters would make a spectacular mess, I'd still rather not let them have a seat at the adult table only so they can get sent back to the kids' table.
Why would we want the people who hate Star Wars the most having that much influence?
he dont hate Star Wars. He dislikes Disney Star Wars which i agree is trash.
@@staffanberg6747 I’m able to find plenty to love. That doesn’t mean it’s all trash.
@@staffanberg6747Rogue one was pretty good
@@timrosswood4259 yep but Rogue One was approved by Disney. It is not a Disney movie per say but a outside company who had an idea for a movie and Disney said Ok and also assisted with special effects. So not Disney in -house writes, but i agree it is the best Star Wars movie since Lucas sold the IP.
I don't think he even hates it, he's just another grifter. Whether or not he's getting paid by Russia (or American oligarchs like Thiel) like some of the others, all he's really passionate about are his merch and patreon numbers.
Letting the anti woke crowd write would produce stuff as bad as what Disney currently produces. I don't like Disney Star Wars, they have made very little that i consider good. But these guys would do no better.
No. God, no. If you think movies are bad now they’re gonna be even worse with “Loki was a bad show because Sylvie exists,” guys around.
Also, one prediction for what would happen if he did write it: to prove how not racist/sexist he is, there would be at least one minority character......... and his own fans would accuse of him of going woke.
If those two were to make important plot and casting decisions, we can all point and laugh at the shitty generic end product at least.
These companies have clearly never spent any time on message boards, because if there's anything that fans hate more than tourists, it's other fans.
Like the harassment that actors receive is nothing compared to people sending actual weapons of harm to the houses of people who disagree over which waifu is the best. An actor has to close their social media for a few months, and maybe spend a few sessions in therapy due to fan backlash. Meanwhile some fanartist at a convention is given cookies filled with needles because she draws art of a ship someone else vehemently hates.
I see you also were in the Voltron fandom. Or at least aware of it
The difference is that people like Kathleen Kennedy actually DESERVE cookies with needles in them.
@@austinreed7343 I wouldn’t wish that even on my worst enemies. It just feels wrong
@@austinreed7343 You're a goddamn psychopath. Get help.
*sees the title*
Fuck no!
Oh you've chosen violence, haven't you Ant? 10/10, no notes, please carry on as you do, love to see it.
More seriously though: I kind of want to see him try if only for the inevitable downfall and loss of money and respect (wait, does anyone actually respect Critical Drinker?).
Tbf, as much as I loathe seeing a Critical Drinker Star Wars, it'd be fascinating what sort of (bad) Star Wars movies he or SWT want to make. CD wants to make a militaristic fantasy self-wank like his novels but set in Star Wars; while SWT just wants to make an Anakin/Starkiller fanfic.
Both of their movies will mostly just be libertarian/military male power fantasies about overpowered self-inserts, I mean, anti-heroes, surrounded by ass-kissing NPCs, while taking down some metaphor for Society/Big Government they truly hate as stand-ins for an Empire or whatever.
If SWT controlled the star wars IP 98% of his content would be Vader power fantasies and the other 2% would be awful fan service. I'd take the worse of star wars from Disney over his idea of star wars any day.
I feel like there's someone in the studios that is looking at film history without grasping the details.
They want to recreate the French New Wave by getting movie Critics to do movies that the audience wants... But noone in charge is bright enough to understand that... None of these internet critics would ever be allowed to touch an issue of Cahiers du Cinema.
But it's not written by movie critics
Admittedly, my tastes in media are quite limited (not a critic), so my only real basis for Japanese cinema are anime movies and Godzilla stuff.
That said, the fact that Minus One didn't even come to Drinker's mind when asked about Japanese films is kinda telling.
That clip might be pre-Godzilla Minus One.
@@agramuglia Ah.
Well... this was probably after Shin at least. I dunno. Point is he couldn't name something as normie as Godzilla.
He thinks Godzilla Minus One to be a good or at least decent movie. Better then the other Godzilla plus Kong movie.
@@staffanberg6747 i really hate comparing Minus One to the Kaiju brawl movies. It's unfair to compare big action brawls to thematically resonate narratives.
@@agramuglia even if it is a brawl movie you still should be able to have a coherent story where people in the movie can act with intelligence. So for example in the first Godzilla movie they informed you that the nuclear tests where humans attempt to kill Godzilla and it failed. So when Godzilla arrives in Hawaii then they send in ground troops with 5.56 mm weapons and they start shooting. This is an example of bad writing as they should know if nukes dont hurt something then low caliber weapons certainly wont and that they should have assisted people to evacuate the area etc. instead.
I am still a Critical Drinker viewer. Because I do like when he speaks about his thoughts on what he thinks good medias are, what good stories are and what one should strive for. It is also very nice when he reviews good movies that he also likes.
Doesn't mean I always agree with him or that I don't think his videos gets really silly when he tries to find the "forced feminism" or "woke" or "the message". Some videos I disagree with so much that I don't find any enjoyment but others I can. I like him even if I do not always agree with him or think he himself is a competent writer.
Why would you listen to a person who has made absolutely clear that he has no sense of taste and just uses his channel to grift and spread the right wing agenda? There are hundreds of other channels you could watch instead that don't do that.
@@PlatinumAltaria
He doesn’t even have OBJECT PERMANENCE, for crying out loud!
Albeit that it’s funny to think about, and appropriate for my pettiness, I wouldn’t be able to take them trying to write this for anything another than a quick chuckle.
Being in the creative mindset and producing art and receiving it are, at the end of the day, different skills. A writer might dissect fiction far differently than a critic, for things that the audience might not notice at all. Similarly, editors are pivotal to writing but being a good editor is a different skill than being a good writer.
My spite for critics like Critical Drinker is because they have a chronic inability to meaningfully and genuinely engage with media. Critical Drinker, as an example, scarcely engages the ideas of a story, has a flow chart of things he chooses to complain about, and uses dog whistles or simplified terms to compensate for genuine criticism. What a “Mary Sue” is isn’t clear. Just complaining about “The Message” isn’t engaging the media. What is “the message”? Why are the ideas in it bad? If it’s due to how heavy handed it may be, then why only complain about that and not other heavy handed and superficial storytelling? Being a good critic is different than being a good writer and critics like him simply want to reduce, reuse, and recycle with how they appeal and engage their target demographic that wants to be mad at something.
Oh definitely not. Thing is, there are a lot of fans out there that THINK they know what's right for the franchise. They'll write fix fics on Star Wars until they're blue in the face, but their fixes usually come from a place of pompousness and thinking that they're the shit. That's not to say a fan can't come up with good fixes to a movie or series. For example, in the new Lego Star Wars special, Darth Jar Jar (a heavily advertised feature) only shows up for less than a minute and instantly dies. Anyone would suggest the fix of "giving him more screentime" and that's something most people can agree on. Critical Drinker would suggest the fix of "Having Darth Rey die instantly instead of Jar Jar, also Jar Jar is now played by a white guy instead of a black guy."
No, since i always thought that fan backlash against last jedi was what led to rise of skywalker
Let em cook, i am genuinely curious how he can make a midass action thriller out of starwars
I am for it. Get the worst bad faith critics to write some stuff, pay them, make it and slap their name on it..