Does Disturbed's version of 'The Sound of Silence' use Auto Tune? Let's find out!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 тра 2024
- On the agenda tonight I'm taking a look at the much requested Disturbed's version of 'The Sound of Silence'!
David Draiman & Myles Kennedy Live - • Disturbed - The Sound ...
TIME STAMPS -
0:00 Start
2:35 Analysis Start
4:03 Auto-Tune vs. Pitch Correction
6:10 Regular, Contemporary Vibrato
9:28 No Vocal Reference Point
10:44 Auto-Tuned Conan Show Performance
11:32 The Curse of Hearing Auto-Tune! l
14:50 Used for Artistic Effect?
17:16 Spanish Castle Magic
19:23 Great Singers on Pitch
22:59 Joe Public Doesn't Notice Pitch in Detail
23:45 Floor-less Vocal Technique
24:57 Descending Onto Notes
26:29 Spoiling Music?
For more, check out my other sites! / wingsofpegasus www.wingsofpegasusband.com/ / wingsofpegasus Twitter - @wingsofpegasus Insta - @wingsofpegasusofficial - Розваги
Putting auto tune on a skilled singer is like making Picasso follow a paint-by-number. Beauty is not in perfection; beauty is in expression.
WELL ... SAID!!!
i look at it like… the voice is just another instrument. distorting it in any fashion is acceptable in my opinion but not always warranted depending on the song.
Picasso was ok. But autotune, pitch correction, classical training or not, this guys just butchering a good song.
I have heard David sing live in small venues several times before they became famous and he was still passing out demo cassette tapes. Even back then his voice was immaculate. It makes me ill to hear him autotuned.
I hate autotune and pitch correction, but I find it all the more bewildering when it's used on singers with great voices. Equally slight flaws in the vocal performances are what makes the performance live and alive. Makes no sense to me to robotasise the process.
There are live autotune rack mounts that have been around for decades. There are even guitar-type pedals you can use for autotune. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has used autotune for decades as well. The only singer I know that didn’t use it at least for a long time is Brandon Boyd from Incubus. He insisted to not have any tuning and the engineers even mention it back in the day.
@@charlieribeiro6343 I could not agree more. Very good reply and I like your use of the word 'ROBOTASISE'.
Thank you Phil for making more people aware they are listening to a computer. To my ears, Autotune takes the soul out of the human voice. I want to hear the soul.
Agreed.
I still love singers with their own voices, even if not perfecct
👍👍👍
You're definitely not listening to a computer. You're still listening to the singer. And the soul is still there - you can hear that in comparing the studio vs Conan.
Studio releases are intended to be the perfect example, which is why they are pitch-corrected. Studio time is expensive, so they try to get it in as little time as possible. They use pitch-correcting to expedite that - it's "we'll fix it in post" for music.
The Conan show was done with an autotune mic because David was sick. There are a couple of places where, even if you aren't familiar with sound mixing, you can tell it was autotuned. In my opinion as a classically trained singer, however, it doesn't spoil the Conan version. It's actually my favorite version - even though there is some autotuning, you can hear the emotion and the training and the ethereal quality of his voice. In my opinion, the autotune simply enhances that otherworldly sound his voice has.
There's nothing wrong with autotune - it has its place in music. Used the way it was originally intended, you get things like David's performance. It's subtle, and is there as something of a safety net. Used in the extreme, you can get a futuristic, inhuman sound, which isn't always a bad thing - look at Cher's Believe or Black-Eyed Peas' Boom Boom Pow. Hell, even look at the aria from The Fifth Element.
It's a beautiful, emotional song sung in a beautiful, emotional way, regardless of the use of pitch-correction technology.
David Draiman does NOT use autotune. This jerk can make his little computer say whst he wants it to say . Live, David sounds Exactly like he did on Conan. Phil, get a life!
It adds what ever soul the producer has ( assuming they have a soul ,being sales people )
I'm not a musician but I am musical, and I do hear when a tone is snapped. Thank you for explaining and showing"what I hear these days", when listening to music.
Eu também percebo . Gosto dessa música apenas com Paul Simon .
I appreciate that you are respecting the singer in these videos. I always thought auto tune was used to make bad singers sound better. Too bad it’s so common now.
I'd say it more like it has created a musical ecosystem where being a good singer is no longer rewarded.
@@teddennison344 or necessary lol
Kelly Clarkson doesn't need it but has said she uses it so that one wonky note doesn't ruin the whole take. I don't think vocally that you'd be able to tell with her if she was off so I really wish she wouldn't.
It's like putting an Instagram filter on a Monet. It's Monet. You're not improving it, you're muddying the artist's work. If the artist wanted to add a tinted wash, fair enough - that was part of their artwork. Your filter isn't their work.
Well said.
Are you telling me that when I went to that French museum and saw Monet's painting Women in the Garden hanging on the wall, that somebody else then got a hold of his canvas and added that giant penis hanging from the tree like it was the world's largest snake? Wow. I had no idea. And all this time I thought Monet was a cool guy and it was some kind of glam metaphor for 1880s hair bands.
To follow-up on that point, I thought Monet's penis painting was his devil-horned metal statement for his appreciation for when Mark Twain, Louis Pasteur, and Gilbert and Sullivan formed a supergroup to perform their barbershop quartet version of Judas Priest's "Turbo Lover" and Poison's "Talk Dirty to Me" in a show for Prince Albert and Queen Victoria. That painting fooled me, I'm an idiot.
With all that being said, the 1880s were a great time to be a metalhead. Monet included, that dude could freakin' rock.
OK, I need to take my pills now.
Excellent comment!
I agree 100% with your assessment on how auto-tune "spoils" otherwise good singing. I am a photographer, and I see how photo editing often spoils otherwise good photography. The best advice I ever received on using Photoshop, was to do the edit, and then dial it back two thirds. I wish more people knew this.
Agree with you 👍
YES! I believe this "auto-tune" thing really takes away from the unique vocals of the singer. I personally prefer to not use it (as a singer).
That is a giant leap there champ. Go back to MANUAL FOCUS because that is the parallel were are drawing, not the studio mixing.
@@godsinbox So cocky, and yet so wrong. Taking the picture is similar to recording the singer. You end up with a raw file (photography) or an unedited track (music).
All manipulation after that (i.e. photo editing of the raw file, or auto-tuning the already recorded track) is what is commonly known as "post" (as in post-production).
Even if a filter is applied to the image in-camera, it still counts as post-process, as you can only do it with a .jpg and not with a .raw image.
Focus is merely one aspect of the imaging process and has nothing to do with how the image is processed, champ.
@@godsinbox If that's your analogy, then go back to pinhole-box cameras. You can draw your line in the sand, but others can't?
I hesitate to write due to limited musical knowledge. As a fan only, I *feel* that the voice without autotune is more intimate. I feel more moved physically and emotionally when there is no autotune, and I wouldn't have noticed before hearing this and other songs you've analyzed. With autotune, I hear something beautiful, but without it, I hear that and I can become emersed in the song. These videos are encouraging as someone who only sings when doing dishes. I'm learning I'm not supposed to be able to hit and hold the notes like autotune does, and maybe that is a sort of perfection that can't be achieved by autotune's accuracy. It's cool knowing great singers sort of swim around or land on a note too. Interesting stuff! Keep up the good work. :)
I agree. It is much more relateable when natural. I'm no musician either but I know when I like a tune!
Rick Beato had a good video on this. The gist is that blues singing is all about half and quarter and even eighth tones. That's where the singer puts the emotion into the piece. That's what the performance is all about. The upshot is you LITERALLY cannot sing blues with pitch correction.
ua-cam.com/video/NNXg5dIVC1M/v-deo.html
@@teddennison344 Half, quarter, and eighth "notes" ? I understand these to describe note timing, not pitch. Half "tones" maybe, as Fil here so often talks about ? If I'm wrong, give me the video title and I'll search.
@@jamesconner3437 You're right. Fixed. It looks like I linked the vid immediately after the comment.
I had to listen to Art Garfunkel's isolated vocals on you tube after this ..that of course was Not autotuned
Lol ....Stunning and Chilling
Another fabulous lesson Professor!!
I knew it! First time I heard his version, I not only heard but felt the auto tune. So many people tried to convince me that I was wrong with the live version, but it is such am unsettling thing in my gut to feel, bordering on nausea. I have seen and heard them live, from a distance of about 5 feet away(no lie), so I know what his natural voice sounds like. It gives me no pleasure to have been correct about the AT, fan or not. Singers, producers, please let the imperfection (or mediocrity, lol) shine. That is what gives music its soul.
It's uncanny valley, and yes it can make you feel sick. It's the same unease when you see a corpse or bad 3d render.
@@carbon1255 Vi ste kreneti
Napisao bih kreteni, ali to je uvreda za ljude koji s imali gušavost u početku 20st.
Spot-on!
For the last couple of weeks, when I'm listening to music in the car, my imagination is picturing this auto-tune wave form graph. Thanks for sharpening my perception!
I read an article, can’t remember where, that David was pissed that they auto tuned his Conan performance in post production. The studio audience did get to hear his true live voice.
I saw that as well, and I don't blame him. Natural recordings are quite rare these days, and I'm having a hard time listening to anything recent. Hell, even distorted electric guitars sound as if they're being played by a machine. Everything is being produced and tuned so much that it's becoming painful to my ears.
Everything I've seen on that, he was sick, and only one tiny spot was Auto tuned at all, because his voice broke due to his voice breaking up a bit.
@@williamkramer9731 yes David had a cold sore throat .
@@goopah it’s nuts. They do this crap and then wonder why old music is more downloaded than new stuff.
@@williamkramer9731 I don't doubt that he was sick. It sounds to me like he was struggling a bit. But it seems clear the whole song was autotuned.
I distinctly remember people arguing with me several years ago that it wasn't autotuned on the Conan performance. It's like you say, once you recognise it, it's all you hear in any voice!
😂 How could anyone argue??
@JakeWildMusic David Draiman didn't want autotune used during that performance but the producers did it anyway. David was very sick with the flu and had cold medicine to help relieve the symptoms during the performance so he could sing the way he sings all the time. David was very mad with the producers of that show after he was finished singing. If you watch any other live performances of that song you can tell he doesn't use autotune at all. He prefers to use his natural voice even in the studio recording.
I saw another video where they analyzed David's voice during the Conan performance. Apparently, he had a cold at the time. Even though he told the producers of the show that he felt like he could sing okay and asked them not to auto tune, they did it anyway. If you see his face, you can see where he realized they're auto tuning him, and he's not happy.
I’ll be honest. This sounds like something someone might say when they’re called out for using auto tune.
@@halffulltomeI'm not even a fan but I also know he's a great singer. If not it would be suspicious but... I could really see this being true. After all, the producers do get to make that decision, not him.
Liren1975, how could you tell Disturbed was unhappy? / grandma joke.
@@halffulltome Not every singer appreciates auto-tune used on them, especially live.
@@dancalkins97 I don’t believe for a second that a talk show producer can make a musical guest use autotune. That’s a creative decision that would be under the band’s control 100%.
Every singer (and person for that matter) has that one flaw that they always work on. With David, it seems to be that little bit of flat pitch. Like you said, if you got him to sing two, three takes, you have all the takes you ever need. And I'm glad you and I agree that he is a truly amazing singer. He doesn't need autotune. I don't know if the studio is the one that wants it to be added or what, but he probably doesn't like that it is added. He seems like the kind of guy that would rather take multiple takes of a song and get it right with his voice rather than have the studio producers alter it. I learned a lot from thos analysis, and you, sir, have earned a new subscriber.
Conan's producer made the decision to use auto tune b/c David had a cold. He has commented on it saying they would never go on his show again.
David also has a serious condition he suffers from; he was forced to get surgery in 2006 to prevent acid from continuing to pour on his own vocal cords. The health condition continued, but he cannot get more surgery due to the damage done, so he has to manage it with medication, so given that, I think he does very well to be able to sing like he does,
To hit the notes with his or her own voice is the thing singers must want to
Isn't this the reason why they practise for years and years? Why they learn most hours of the day?
EVERY singer, no matter how good, naturally strays either flat or sharp….something each singer always needs to be aware of
I've always been able to hear auto-tune. It adds a electronic sorta of tone to the voice that is easily picked out from non-autotuned sections.
Me too. I can't sing but I have a great ear for pitch and picking out that kind 9f stuff. Autotune, IMHO, is a cancer and I'd eradicate it.
As can I. I think that is why they have been adding the echo effect in most of these auto-tuned solos; that is, to try to hide the synthetic sound.
it's also painfully obvious with slides, when there's no change in quality but the pitch unnaturally changes at an oddly even pace. a slide whistle can't even sound like that. it sounds synth for sure
A lot of signing today sounds like they are signing through a pipe. Is that the same thing?
@@belkyhernandez8281 It sounds like they're singing alongside a mild/soft star wars lightsaber.
Please do some Jon Anderson from the 70s.
There was a documentary that said he had perfect pitch. I believe this refers to hearing, but anyway it seems interesting.
David has a beautiful voice and he gives me goose bumps. He has other live performances that shows how talented he is.
This is so fascinating, especially in our age of photo editing and filters. Not only has society become addicted to visual impossibilities in a quest for "perfection," but now also auditory impossibilities. And our art is losing its humanity. Very curious as to when and how the pendulum will finally swing back the other way. Thank you so much for these enlightening posts!
Auto tune has been used for decades at this point though 😐
Don't know the exact time, but this "system of things" with all it's cruddy stuff is nearing it's conclusion , as the Bible points out in chapter 24 of the book of Matthew, (& check out verse 3&14). A "new earth", it tells us, is in the offing..... reality will, once again, be the status quo...... as notice what it says about those ruining the earth.... And all this fakery we see in everything does ruin things ( like being unable for the regular person to detect... truth) but check Revelation 11 :18& 21 :1-5. Like FIL says " it ruins things".... But that will come to an end.
The pendulum never ever swung the way you think it did for those in the know. They've been tuning out of autotuned songs since the 90s.
The masses will always be deluded. Same story for time immemorial. Step outside of the box and the world opens up, or stay in and wonder about something that will never come to pass.
Autotune can be an interesting tool for certain artistic styles and effects. However, for music which focus on natural singing, it shouldn't be used as it eliminates the natural aspect of the voice, particularly when the singer is well trained and/or talented. For example, autotune can be a neat effect for futuristic electronic opera singing but would destroy the virtuosity and natural sound of a classic opera. Same applies to other genres of course :)
Over 200k subs, kickin butt Fil, congrats..
Thanks!
So many voice coach reaction videos don't realize David was using pitch correction/autotune software. As the saying goes "You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool Fil at any time."
Disturbed’s version of this song (auto tuned or not) is hauntingly powerful and beautiful. I can feel every word.. it’s moved me to tears unexpectedly. I can usually identify auto tune, but I’m grateful for this in-depth analysis.. I know truthfully what I’m listening to. Knowing this hasn’t detracted from the way I feel about Disturbed’s version….it touches the soul and is strangely uplifting. Loving this Fil.. Thank You
Tuned version sounds better though
I agree. Almost every time I hear it (the recorded release version), it moves me to tears. Autotune doesn't always strip out the emotions.
@@user-pt4ic1qu5q The autotuned version, sadly, only sounds better if the singer is not hitting their notes.
@@rsmonge you have no ears apparently
@@user-pt4ic1qu5q The original is pretty off. Otherwise, the pitch corrected version wouldn't be so obviously different. No one would have even thought it necessary, if the original was very good.
That version with Myles is absolutely amazing!! I listen to it almost everyday. Love the voice of both of them.
Have you ever put Bobby Hatfield's performance of Unchained Melody through your graph? Obviously not auto-tuned, but wondering how close to pitch he was.
@Fil - If you have not looked at Unchained Melody, both Bobby Hatfield’s and Elvis Presley’s versions, please do.
I feel like a lot of the time, when auto tune or pitch correction is applied too harshly, even just the smallest amount too much, you can often hear "breaks" or "cracks" in the singers voice that weren't there originally, due to the software manipulating the singer's voice. As an audiophile, those little unnecessary cracks, crackles, and breaks just ruin the listening experience, forcing me to find a live or un-tampered FLAC of the song, which is annoying and trivial. I wish less big studios mechanically butchered people's voices and just let me hear the human singing their soul out, instead of the human getting their soul crunched and compressed to death.
I’m really learning a lot from this series on auto tune. I’ve come to really understand it now and can actually hear it myself. I find this very interesting. Thank you!
Same!
'snapped to the lines' might be the best way to describe it I've ever heard - in the 'natural' live performance you can hear the transition between notes rather than the 'snap'. Your point about really talented singers not needing it makes sense - the difference between 'natural' and auto-tuned is much more subtle than with 'average' singers. Would be awesome if you could look at Bruce Dickinson's live Gallows Pole or any live version of Ghost Love Score with Floor Jensen since they seem to be some of the most 'over the top "can't believe it" reaction videos by vocal coaches & non-metal commentators
You do realize that neither of them actually needs autotune at all, not even during their live performances?
(btw. it's Floor Jansen).
[edit: I know realize that is exactly what you meant, sorry]
I do think it would be interesting to see an analysis of Ghost Love Score at Wacken 2013. It is almost too good. I personally think it is real without any pitch correction, since there are one or two places where there might be some imperfections, though I'm not sure. And of course, Floor Jansen does not need nor use autotune, but even she is not fully perfect. Ghost Love Score in Buenos Aires 2012 has several places where she hits the note a tad flat, which does mean that it has not been fixed in post. It does not take away from the fantastic performance after only a few weeks with the band in my opinion, but rather confirms that it is the real deal.
i have no doubt a small amount of pitch correction has been used for both Floor and Bruce, but i dont think they did it in a way that spoils the song. But I am very curious to see!
@@damouze I would think the vocalists and bands would agree that they don’t need it-but many of them, apparently, do think they need it. I was so surprised to hear how aggressive the pitch correction and overdubbing and fixed mistakes are in Queen’s most well-known live concert releases.
Thank you so much for calling out overuse of autotune/pitch correction. In the past, producers would do multiple takes to get the best vocal, and not do one take and then "fix" it with pitch correction. Ever since Cher released "Do You Believe In Love" with the pitch effects, it seems like everyone on the radio has to use it. I can't even listen to the radio anymore because I can hear the robotic sound of correction software. They either use it as an obvious effect, or they do it subtly as pitch correction, and I can hear it every time. I can also hear that Adele does NOT use it. Very refreshing.
I know I've posted my comment a couple of times, but it really is okay to use it on certain songs. David has a serious condition he suffers from; he was forced to get surgery in 2006 to prevent acid from continuing to pour on his own vocal cords. The health condition continued, but he cannot get more surgery due to the damage done, so he has to manage it with medication, so given that, I think he does very well to be able to sing like he does. It was a high intensity song and they wanted it to be absolutely perfect. Nothing wrong with that, given his situation. I've heard the live rendition and other live performances, and I've no complaints about that either. He is an excellent vocalist, having received his musical education as a Cantor and is to be applauded for being able to maintain his voice as well as he has, given his health condition.
Great art needs the natural imperfections that makes it feel genuine. It is like when you mirror one side of a face and make a perfect symmetric face. Symmetry is beutifull, but perfect symmetry is too much. Hitting all the notes spot on is too perfect. Great music has a feeling you cannot express in a computer program. Some notes are a little longer or off pitch. You may not describe exactly what it is, but you know when the music got "it". You just feel it. When the hair on your arms raises.
Well actually psych studies done have shown ppl actually prefer mirrored faces to natural faces 😅
I liken AT to “work” people get done on their face. It’s going for a perfection that isn’t natural and robs individual character.
Oh My Goodness! Thank you so much sharing the link to the live performance with David and Myles! One word, goosebumps! I prefer the natural sound of these amazing vocalists. David just blows me away!
The odd thing is that they didn't even bother deleting the accidental snaps to intermediate notes in the glissando, especially noticeable in the intro. You can hear it, and you can even see it on the chart.
Auto-tune is a crutch! Or worse, the merging of the human and computer voice creating a synthetic experience!
Exactly!
@@DS40764 He was sick and the producers added it without him wanting it.
@@RobbieFitzgerald That's too bad. Huh . Still is creepy. Well I grew up in a time when natural was in
@@RobbieFitzgerald He wasn't sick when he recorded it in the studio for the album....still auto-tune was used.....the Christ of Rock n Roll isn't happy! 🤣🤣🤣
Denise. Totally agree
The autotune sounds like a slight ringing: a robotic sound. Really noticeable, especially when notes are slurred. Pitch correction is more subtle but it still robs the performance of humanity, in my opinion. The former may turn out to be a passing fad but I think the latter is here to stay, unfortunately.
Well described! I get so frustrated trying to explain how I can hear it and what it sounds like to me. My biggest problem is that I speak using the vocabulary that producers are familiar with (ie semitone, dry/wet, etc) and very few people can grasp what I mean.
This sort of thing has been going on since the first music was made. Every new technological advance has, in some way, shape, or form, been disruptive and initially dismissed as a fad or adding something "impure" to the performance. Eventually, however, it's adapted and adopted in ways that were never imagined. I cite the following (and this isn't an exhaustive list, just some examples):
Sticks and rocks as sounding tools
HOLLOW sticks/logs
Stringed instruments
Amphitheaters with great natural acoustics
Electrical instruments, microphones, and amplifiers
Multi-channel recordings
Synthesizers and samplers
Digital recorders and playback
To some degree, AutoTune (and, more generically, pitch correction) has already been through some of the initial stages of acceptance by putting it out-front, such as when artists dial it all the way up. Anything by T-Pain, for instance, or that song Cher released a while back. But it's not through a final acceptance point where it's used gently, as a subtle tool. It's still very much like the first multi-channel recordings where the differences from each speaker are SO very different from one another that you can't help but notice the effect. For the most part now, however, you rarely notice the subtle differences between left and right channels unless the artist, engineer, etc. make it obvious to the listener as an artistic choice.
Synthesizers and samplers have gone through much of this already with the same kind of effect. In the early days, those instruments were absolutely easy to identify. Now, they're really difficult unless it's made obvious as an artistic choice.
For better or worse, the technology is here to stay - both live and in the studio. And, in time, artists will make use of it in new, less (and possibly more) obvious ways to shape and form their art.
@@zachbarnes2538 Yeah, I hear it as almost a tiny delayed robotic echo. Like all the terrible pop music has a robotic unclean sound to it. I probably am not describing well what I hear, but basically I can always instantly hear autotune and it really sours my listening of music. I literally hunt for less known not famous musicians that don't use it. At least then I get to hear original pieces with real voices.
@@toddlynch7282 sorry, that whole thing is a false equivalency. Please tell me which of the things you listed were MADE, created for the sole purpose of FOOLING the listener to believing it is natural? Using it as an effect you are not hiding is NOT the same thing as something you hope no one finds out, something you hope fools everybody or is kept secret. Comparing that to criticism over innovating sound is not the same thing. It’s a crutch & disingenuous. No wonder the quality of the average singer & what their voice & artistic innovation was has plummeted so far from your average singer 40yrs ago.
@@gruanger agreed. There’s definitely a use for autotune and artists have been able to make entire careers out of their unique turns on how to apply it, but I think it definitely has a dehumanizing effect on vocals. As long as you know that’s what it’s doing and that’s your intention, fine, but it’s a shame when it’s applied to people like David.
Wow.. super interesting stuff!
My son plays the piano, hard. He's a natural musical brain....He played so hard on that piano that he kept breaking these 50 year old piano strings ... it was getting expensive.
When the last time the piano tuner came to straighten up our old piano he said this...." a digital piano sounds more like a piano than a piano does..." Wow.. really.. !!!
Well , we took him at his word and purchased a decent Yamaha keyboard... my son was happy at first but his very fine ear started to notice something. The something was that the flavour or colour coming from our imperfect wooden piano was more truthful and more loyal to the reality of making music.
Immediately he noticed comments on his music channel saying things like.. the old piano sounds so good.. so rich!
Once you start to hear the problem with digital... you cannot , 'not' hear it. It is exactly as you suggest... the perfectness can be heard mechanically and this is an overwhelming negative one comes to find.
If life becomes digital, where the hell would we be! Music is life... and it's micro imperfections make it ... something.. I cannot put a word to it but this channel is supporting what we've learned by accident.
Loved your Freddie Mercury video as well.
thanks .. from Canada
I remember when the live performance came out and my metal-head Facebook friend shared it with the praise of "no Auto-Tune". And everyone hit the like button.
So I was a little shocked when I read the title of your video.... Your series really opened my ears, I started listening to music more closely, and I feel like almost every song nowadays uses some kind of audio correction :-(
Anyway, thanks a lot for your effort
Any great singer, whatever the musical genre, doesn’t need auto-tune.
Exactly. And even if it isn't in perfect pitch, it doesn't mean it doesn't sound good.
It can be used for artistic purposes… but shouldn’t be needed for performances. There is a different
I bet the artists have no problem with AT and Pitch corrections. That's it's not just producers and studios pushing it. It's vanity similar to plastic surgery
And supermodels never wear makeup, right?
IMO, auto-tune is like the 'disco beat' was in the late 70s early 80s .. it was popular so they just pasted it on every track they could.
I think musically we'll move a way from auto tune cause it's already gotten boring to listen to.
ps: I love these videos :)
I do not think its gonna work like that unfortunately. The disco beat was relevant about 10 years and than it got replaced. Autotune came up I think in the 90th and ever since its use has increased constantly. I addition, in more and more songs they do not use real instruments anymore. The drums, guitar, bass etc are all from computers, not real musicians anymore. The producers have found a great way to reduce production costs: get rid of the expensive musicians. You don't need to pay great guitarists (who have trained all their lives) anymore etc. Thats what is happening.
«Spanish Castle Magic», that’s just too funny! 🤣 But THANK YOU FIL, you really doing a huge service to the music community with these videos. As a musician with my own particular hate for autotune, I really appreciate how you never hate on the artists who have been subjected to this monstrosity. It is a cancer that has grown in the recording studios, and needs to be cut from there.
Fil's quotable quotes:
5:40 > "music doesn't work like this"
15:03 > "the waves don't lie"
18:38 > "you'd probably want your money back"
I prefer the sound of the natural. Although auto tuning that small section of the Maroon Five song was fine for me. Probably because of the double tracking.
I'm glad you showed us that song, and how it was changed the second time.
Love that song, love Simon and Garfunkle. My parents were really into them when a was a really young child. Since birth, my parents stimulated me a lot musically and in terms of reading. Thanks so much, Mamá and Daddy!
Love to see a reaction to Pentatonix's version of this song, or any of their work really, just like the Home Free comment below, as an A Cappella group, they rely on keeping in tune together, especially live. From what the group has said in interviews, Mitch Grassi is the member most accurate pitch wise (just what I heard - sorry if this is wrong!). I love his voice and would be very interested in how you would analyse it. They also do off mike perfomances, so def no Auto Tune in those occasions!
Please react to any live Pentatonix performance, I'd love your take on them.
@@honeybgood9691 Does Pentatonix use AutoTune? Is water wet?
@@rikodesinko I can definity hear autotune in Pentatonix tracks!
@@dragynphyre1 I'm not so sure. I'm only able to hear autotune when it causes this electronic buzz sound on longer notes, but Pentatonix seems to use this slightly robotic sound intentionally. What I mean is it might be an added sound effect without the pitch actually snapping to the lines. Would definitely be interesting to see analysis.
@@dragynphyre1 I'm actually curious about this one as they both happily admit to using engineering tricks, but then also point out that they purposefully don't use much auto-tune. Based on some things Avi said in old interviews I believe what MOST of their tracks are doing is in a way almost worse than auto-tune... I think maybe most of it is recording the exact same thing 150+ times, quantizing it, then hand picking "the perfect quanta" over and over until what they have is a Frankenstein's monster of "natural takes" where even 1 second of audio may be composed from 4-5 different takes *for each person*.
Do that while looking at the lines and obviously you can make everything perfectly on the line even if no tuning is involved. Why bother when auto-tune is so easy? Because what they're doing is "even more perfect than that". Their vibratos are perfectly in sync, they do things with volume that are db perfect with every voice, they match OVERTONES, ...
There's no "plugin" for that, but it's also something that could never be done live. You'd need REAMS of audio to splice something like that together.
I have been following you and your evaluations for about a year now. Your evaluations and explanations are great! It is obvious you know what you are talking about. Your teaching attitude, rather than criticism is like a breath of fresh air. Keep them coming.
Thanks!
Sounds better without. More like a real voice.
A real voice sounds more like a real voice?
You don't say.
@@Kyrelel The point is why use autotune if it doesn't help produce better music
Agree
Agree 💯 %! His real voice sounds way better than auto tune or pitch correcting
I’d love to see the ‘waves’ from a great singer before autotune. A Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Nat King Cole or Aretha Franklin? Be good to see how a fabulous natural voice looks. Great content by the way, thanks
The person who said, why can't you just listen and enjoy the music... no matter how bad it sounds ... is exactly the individual the industry is targeting. No one with a discerning ear for music will ever enjoy music that sounds like Alexia or Siri are doing vocals. It's one thing to use computers for added effect in a song or musical score because you're creating something new. It's the milli vanilli effect when the industry becomes lazy and dishonest and uses a computer to corrupt a singers natural singing voice or turns a horrible singer into a pop star. I really appreciate the effort you're putting in to try and educate people!
Thank you, Fil, for another great analysis. I love this Auto Tune series. I agree whole-heartedly with you about Auto Tune standing "in front" of the voice. It's like witnessing a performance by someone standing in front of a tunnel. If the performer is between the listener and the tunnel, you get just a bit of the hollowness (as in pitch correction). However, if the listener is on the other end of the tunnel, that hollowness and mechanical reverberation is in front of the voice. It's so apparent even to a pleb like myself. They should call Auto Tune something else like iRobotTune. Sometimes it sounds like various electric keyboard settings. Just very artificial. Cheers!
Aww man now that I am aware of auto tune I can never go back to just enjoying music. But it's all for the best I am educated and I won't now consume crap anymore!
You can if you listen to "classic rock" or music before auto tune :-) But, you're right, now that I'm keyed into hearing auto tune, it sounds a lot more obvious, and does ruin the listening experience. But I guess I wasn't loving contemporary music anyway because I've gone back to classic rock and oldies like motown. Much better listening!
It's like when you find out what's in Taco Bell or Filet o Fish... or had really quality something... it was good but now you've had better, and you can never go back to crappy.
@@marysweeney7370 I don't think it should ruin enjoyment of music. Even before autotune came out there were still plenty of things that could be done in a studio that would betray your expectation of it being 'live'... The way i think of it is that the studio side of a band is different to the live side. On a CD you're not just hearing the band, you're hearing the producer putting a certain flair on the sound, you're hearing overdubs and effects & various things that are there for the sake of presentation and polish, not because it's a 100% accurate depiction of what the music will sound like in a live setting. Even if a band is 'good enough to not need it' or whatever... You don't know how many takes a guitarist did to get that perfect solo, or how many painstaking hours it might have taken for the drummer to get the exact feel they're after etc etc.
@@mattmurphy7030 Yeah that's a much better concise way of putting it lol.
I can hear the auto tune and much prefer none, it sounds so much better without! Their is a cappella version no auto tune that is just amazing, I mean what's the point when he sounds so good. I have seen Disturbed in concert 4 times dude has a great voice!!!
Thank you for doing this, again, Fil. David has a beautiful, versatile voice. I’m off to listen to the clean (unadulterated) version. Rock!
The live version with Myles Kennedy is the absolute best! Mainly because of the stellar harmonies and vocals by Myles. He makes anything or anyone sound amazing.
Henk Poort is the definitive version, in my opinion. Live, no auto tune, no pitch correction. Just pure class. ua-cam.com/video/q_BJaM-UrXc/v-deo.html
🎂 Happy Birthday to Myles...Nov. 27th❤
@@RonniePeterson Never heard this version before. Yes... as a solo version it is absolutely beautiful. Would actually love to hear Myles sing with this guy. How awesome that would be..
@@barbwatkins3676 Very.
These segments on seeing auto tuned is very fascinating. But, to be honest, I am watching just to hear your voice. It’s very lovely.
You are so right that it sounds so mechanical with auto tune. If an artist has a great voice & can really sing why would they use it. I can see why newer artists use it as a lot of them can't hold a note. This is why I enjoy listening to the great artists from the past before this was even invented.
I'm not shy in my hatred for pitch correction, as well as my utter disdain for Auto-Tuned voices, AND many artists OVERUSE of it today. I just am baffled at the use of auto-tune in this particular song. Mr. Draiman has a freaking awesome voice. At least it was subtle, but I'm still disappointed to find this out. I'm one of those who can USUALLY hear it but, this was one time I couldn't. I'm so used to hearing modern top40 being nothing BUT Auto-Tune BS, and it's sad that many people can't tell the difference between a REAL talented singer, and some jackoff who couldn't carry a tune to save his or her life. THAT is what dominates top40 music...I don't care if it's "gangsta" rap, trap, R&B, Pop, Country or Rock...if you can't sing, just stay at your fricking day job. Leave the singing to REAL singers. true, they can't help that there's still going to be some processing done to their vocals (Compression, reverb, echo, etc.), but at LEAST talented, TRUE singers are the masters of their craft. Everything else is just nothing but Auto-Tuned bulls***.
Thank you for the link to live version with Myles Kennedy. Chills. And tears. What an amazing performance.
Great video Fil, so educational! 👏
Auto tune strips the soul from this beautiful, emotive song... I prefer the original with its subtle nuances. You explain the technical shenanigans concisely Fil. Fascinating. Love the Myles Kennedy performance...
Love what you're doing with this videos. Glad to see someone bringing visibility to the horrors of autotune and pitch correction.
I would have said what difference does it make...then I listened to the link you provided and now clearly understand exactly what you meant. This is a great video for a novice such as myself. I have a cousin that is the lead singer for the group Alabama and he always sounded different live as opposed to the albums they released. Thank you for taking the time to complete and share this video.
Towards the end, you talk about the people who can hear auto-tune - I am one of those. It has bugged me for years and I don't like listening to pop music anymore because of it. It's almost like hearing fingernails on a chalkboard along with the vocals. For me, it absolutely ruins the entire performance. Another thing that has really bothered me - much longer, and before the "invention" of auto tune - is the overuse of strict, heavy compression on bass parts. That's as bad as the auto-tune mess to me. Along with the overdone compression on bass parts is using very restrictive noise gates on the bass. Just like auto-tune taking the expressiveness or "humanity" out of vocals, it takes the expressiveness out of the bass parts. To me it sounds like the player just doesn't want to bother with learning dynamics/volume control for their instrument.
I think I am able to spot it mostly when they have to overdo it to correct bad singing (or due to "artistic choice"), it bugs me less if the singer is already good at singing at the correct tune so there's less "distortion" in the sound. But I'm glad my ear is not as picky as yours!
You sound like you're a picky listener. May I ask you what music do you listen to? I won't judge your taste, Im just interested.
@@vb7955 I listen to mostly Jazz and Classical music these days although I grew up on 60s, 70s,and 80s Rock and Roll so everything from Led Zeppelin to Black Sabbath, Rush, The Police and many others - although RUSH is my favorite rock band and their music gave me the unquenchable desire to be a professional bass guitarist. I've been a musician for about 45 years now (I play a 6 string fretless bass). The only music I really don't make an effort to listen to would be opera, country, punk, and rap - although I still appreciate the music when it's good.
@@hesido I think that my ears are picky because I've been playing fretless bass for 25 years and I have to concentrate on playing in tune quite a bit, so I listen really carefully to everything happening in the music all the time.
I can only agree, like this song with Disturbed, my ears are almost bleeding by hearing it, and still when mentioning this to other people they get upset because I 'dare' to say a thing like that about this band. I instantly hear this, because it sound so incredible unnatural, I can't understand how someone do not hear it.
This is a late review but well done. I really appreciate the way you drove the point home that David is a great singer. To me those small imperfections of being a little flat and then coming back to the note or whatever he is doing, is the whole point of recording and singing without autotune. It shows the singers singing characteristics and "Vocal stylings" for that singer. One of my favorite singers is Janice Joplin. The beauty of her songs was the imperfection in her vocals. It made Janice Joplin memorable. As soon as she started singing you know it is her. Why, cause her voice has character, depth, feelings, and music that you can feel in your soul. If autotune was a thing in those days, I am not sure she has the same impact as she did with her wonderful unique voice. Anyways just my 2-cents. Thanks!
Thank you for these videos. Your passion for music exudes in your expressions and analysis of the recordings! I have learned so much from watching your videos! I can hear the difference when an artist uses auto-tune. All the artist that use it have the "same sound". I heard Disturbed live a few years ago, singing this song, and they definitely used auto-tune on that performance. Thanks for all you do!
Good afternoon Fil!
Don't usually catch you until 7 o'clock here,so this makes a nice difference. Thanks to your videos on auto tuning,I was able to hear it more here. The guy didn't need it here.
David's version of this great Simon and Garfunkel's song blew me away. it was so good.
I'd heard that on the show that night David really wasn't well and his bandmates persuaded him to sit on a chair, and apparently, he was really angry when he heard the show's production team had put autotune on. Don't know 100% if this is true or not.
@MarsMacL, I can't seem to find it now but in an interview, David states he had a throat infection at the time and was not aware that the broadcast audio had been AutoTuned until after the show had aired.
@@GrayRaceCat yeah that’s what I heard too. He had the flu or something and the studio did that one their own.
You always explain things so well. You are a natural teacher. Appreciate learning from you.
Thanks for verifying what I've always heard. I can hear auto-tune and most pitch correction, and it bugs the heck out of me. It sounds like singing out of tune to me, oddly enough. You've given me a boost of confidence in my own capabilities. Thank you Fil!
I think it goes both ways, too, I suspect since the advent of autotune in the late 90s, there are plenty of people listening to auto'd music who haven't heard these singers perform without it.
With the Freddie Mercury video, people know what Freddie's voice was "supposed" to sound like, but if you've never heard your favourite singers sing naturally, what basis of comparison would you have?
And yeah I could tell which was Faux-Freddie, for me it wasn't that the notes were wrong, it was the spaces between them, the way he went from one note to the next just sounded off to me. And I'm no musician by any stretch, but I grew up listening to Queen.
I prefer it without the autotune, but I understand what they were going for with the studio version and I still really enjoy their cover.
Before I found your channel, now and then, I'd hear "live" performances by various artists, mostly on television, where I thought something just wasn't right, as compared to their albums, or even concert performances. I could never put my finger on it. I now believe it was the auto tune. I am so grateful that I stumbled on your channel.
Fantastic demonstration. Thank you so much for showing this to us. You may have jumped into that rabbit hole now and may be requested to show who is/is not using auto tuning or pitch correction. AND......thank you for keeping it real, GREAT stuff mate.
Seriously are some producers and artists that clueless that a sizable portion of the audience hears and dislikes the effects? Anyway, thanks in particular for analyzing the sounds of silence disturbed version.
Thank you! I'm new to your channel & you have shown me why some music sounds bland to me. I didn't really know what was happening, just singers didn't have those unique expressions that I grew up with (am 66). I think an honest voice is so much better, has character worth listening to.
Awesome demo and analysis, Fil. You've presented an excellent tutorial here. Well done.
It's almost as though all the character, everything that makes a singer special, gets stripped out in a bid to be mathematically correct. It really is turning an extremely analog signal (the natural voice), into a digital output. Now everything sounds like Cher's Believe - the difference being that her usage of it was intentional. Gosh I am so glad I found this channel!!!!!!!
I love music. I cannot live without music. That said, I understand nothing about music, it is an emotional connection I make with it and it wasn't until I saw some of your videos that I've come to understand some of the emotional connections I have with some music and not others (I think). This is fascinating, and I thank you for taking the time to teach about this :)
What I think plays into it, people are now so used to hearing autotuned vocals, that when a great singer records a natural performance, the studio still wants to 'correct' it, because it doesn't sound like what's become the norm.
I've written a few songs for which I hired a vocalist on Fiverr. They're not autotuned, and it sounds good to me, but I can tell it doesn't sound like 'other' songs. At least I don't think they're autotuned, if you want to analyse it, let me know and I can send you all the files when I release the song.
Another answer to the question "what does it matter if Joe Public can't hear it" is, and you've touched on this before, young vocalists hear this and compare their own voices to autotuned or pitch corrected vocals, and they can never match it. This can be very discouraging, they might think they're just not good enough to be a singer. It's kind of like when models are being photoshopped, and young girls think their bodies aren't slim enough, because the models don't look like them. They get a wrong sense of reality, and it leads to mental problems. Autotune is the Photoshop of music, it creates an unnatural product, that young people compare themselves to, only to find out they can never be as good as what they see and hear.
Excellent analysis keep up the great work. I'm enjoying your videos.
Thank you, thank you for explaining and showing us the difference between natural and auto tune. And may I just say how much I’ve been enjoying your artist selection. Your range and diversity is really fun and enjoyable to watch.
Man, you are really on a mission against that auto-tune! Thanks for that, I can hear a few things more clearly now. :D
It not nearly communicated enough. The only way to make them stop using autotune would be, if the listeners would not buy it anymore. I vote for a legal requirement to disclose the use of autotune and pitch correction.
I remember when the Conan performance first got uploaded, many people would comment that "It was recorded live, so it can't have been autotuned", ignoring of course that at the time, that they literally had an "AutoTune Live" product meant to perform AutoTune for live performances in real time.
Incidentally, "AutoTune Live" has been updated/replaced by something called "AutoTune Artist".
Well in the live performance on Conan, they used autotune because David was sick with I believe a cold or sinus infection 🤔 Still, David didn't want to use autotune, but they did
@@stevenguerra1626 My comment wasn't about whether one should/shouldn't use AutoTune or the reasons for using it. I was simply pointing out that many people would comment that they could not have AutoTuned the performance, when real-time live AutoTune has been around for many years.
I really enjoyed this, very informative. My mind is also drawn to some excellent live guitar performances where I recall I could hear the sound of the fingertips or even the fingernails sliding and scratching across the metal strings. Those sounds usually get muted or dubbed out. The same with piano too as far as a creaking bench or foot pedal. These type of sounds add to the performance and provide a more organic experience in my opinion.
Excellent analysis! Thank you.
I've heard people argue this question on this performance before. So getting such a definitive answer was really cool. That reminded me of another video from a few years ago. There was a female singer by the name of Aida Nikolaychuk from a Ukraine singing competition. She was stopped in the middle of her audition by the judges because they thought she was lipsyncing and her voice was going through some kind of special effect. I've read comments about a "flanger" effect. The judge also commented on her unique timbre and maybe "perfect" pitch.
This seems like a perfect video for you to run your analysis on. There are multiple videos on this with either "Aida Nikolaychuk Lullaby" or "Is This Contestant Really Lip Syncing? X Factor" type titles. There are over 50M views when combining the views from the multiple versions of her singing this song on the Internet. So it seems like it would be a good video for you to look at. I hope you do because I would look forward to your take.
I would love to see him review this audition as well, and get his input on any special effect her mic was giving.
The part that autotune kills for me is the natural vibrato or perhaps 'waver' of a voice (obviously not a technical person here). You can hear a drastic difference that just grates on your instincts. Like you just know that this isn't the person you are listening to. Somehow your insides are sending you an alarm that who you are looking at and hearing, don't match up, and I think it's because your ears and brain can process and recognize it on the fly, but it's not an 'observable' obvious problem that you naturally zone in on right away.
I dunno, probably piss poor explanation, but it really is grating to me and other people I've met that notice this. I think it is really apparent just listening to music from pre and post technology.
Yeah, the Conan version, I can hear the vibrato is no-longer natural... That is where one really hears it. The recording, while they pitch corrected, it looks like they didn't touch the vibrato relative to that, so the whole waiver of the voice is moved together making it far less obvious than the automatic tuning that doesn't understand what is and isn't vibrato.
The lack of pitch control would sound even worse, which is why they autotune.
I feel an enormous amount of vindication for dumb comment fights I was getting in the middle of when these performances first came out. What you say about Autotune being something you can’t un-hear…
It’s just so clear to my ear, and I couldn’t wrap my head around the almost fanatical pushback against the idea that the mighty singer, who, as literally everyone reminded me of at every opportunity, is ~*classically trained*~, would STOOP to using Autotune or pitch correction is unthinkable heresy.
So, thanks for this. I considered doing a similar video at the time because no one else was doing it. But… a lack of talent and excess of laziness held me back. So again. Thank you. I don’t need to rub it in anyone’s face. But I’m just happy that I’m not crazy.
This is pretty amazing. I love the performance with Myles. Thanks for doing this!
Maybe knowing the sound of auto tune is like being a professional chef and knowing someone has put sugar in a tomatoes sauce instead of them using very ripe tomatoes to bring the sweetness. It does change your appreciation of the cook's skills and the finished sauce.
Great analogy, Gigi.
Very apt comparison
Great video. Wonderfully demonstrated
Thanks for this video. I saw someone on the isolated vox video defending the “fact” that David Draiman never allows auto tune/pitch correction on his tracks. This guy said he knows someone really close to the David that told him that. I’m thinking, “bro, this is one of the most obvious uses of pitch correction I’ve ever heard.” His vocal performance is still stunning though.
"... that's not how music works " The best quote that you use, as it's spot on.
I used pitch correction on my own vocals back when I was making basic demos, but this was more for confidence reasons. Although sometimes it was actually required, due to having no takes close enough to use naturally.
I'm better at hearing when people are off pitch than being able to consistently sing on pitch myself, but I can't stand so much modern productions where the correction is used heavily. Hence why I've backed away from music over the last 10 years.
I was in High School when The Sound of Silence was first released by S & G and when I first heard Disturbed's version I was completed floored. It just goes to show how a great song can be interpreted differently to great effect. Somehow you keep picking songs that I have loved for years, you must be quite the music historian. I don't have a music education and don't have the vocabulary to explain these older or "classic" rock/pop songs to young people and it makes me happy to think this music continues to be enjoyed by new generations of fans. As always, thanks for continuing to teach me more in depth about the music I love. Any plans to analyze anything by Ian Anderson / Jethro Tull?
I don't know the first thing about the mechanics of music, but I enjoy your reviews and the break down of the music. It's given me the opportunity to work my brain and listen to songs in a new way. Thanks for your reviews. I also enjoy hearing some songs I had forgotten about or haven't heard in a long time. (Keep smiling, you have a great smile.) I subscribed today. :)
Thanks!
Thanks for these series of videos! Extremely interesting AND reassuring for me, as a singer.
Some people have been seduced by digital/computer believing that everything is improved by digital/computer, they are wrong, thank you for enlightening people about how we are being lied to.
I would LOVE to hear your take on Home Free's acapella stuff, particularly the baritone parts in Man of Constant Sorrow, or any of their recordings really.
Agreed! Or When a Man Loves a Woman's tenor parts. We can get access to some isolated vocal tracks. :-)
And of course you do know all the popular a cappella groups are auto tuned: Pentatonix, Home Free, on and on.
@@Larry821 Yeah, that's what I was wondering. It would be interesting to see comparisons with any recordings that aren't.
Wow, now I could hear that program working, too (14:41). Thanks a lot for explaining so profoundly! I do enjoy the music without auto tune. :-)
P.S. Jurassic Park shirt underneath, I guess!?!? ;-D
Thank you. What a well done technical analysis and quite thoughtful review. When I first heard the Conan live version, I was simply amazed by it… having no knowledge of what auto tune even was. I was taken aback that someone could sing like that. Then after learning it was auto tuned, … ugh, that rather spoiled it. As you said, you tend to fixate on the computer tuning, that artificial effect, and not the vocalist. All the Best, Dave
Hi Fil, really enjoying these videos. I'm a musician and I notice autotuning on so much music I hear on the radio. Like you said yourself, it really takes the enjoyment away for me as I don't want to hear a computer singing, I'd rather hear the actual recording unaltered. In Nashville and Country music they call it "pitch and pocket" and vocals are autotuned and live drums are quantized to be perfectly in time. It really spoils modern music for me.