@singjazzy6697 Technology has moved on greatly since 1990's auto-tune which is known as the Vocoder voice effect, "Pitch Correction" is alot more subtle and discreet therefore less audible to alot of consumers.
Dimash, the singer, is irrelevant. What people are accustomed to hearing is Dimash "the brand," which, whether studio or live, is an auto tuned sound. His fans still believe that what they hear is actually how he sounds, so there is no incentive ($) to stop auto tuning or pitch correction. The fact that Dimash has a great stage presence is, frankly, more important to his handlers than how he sounds. But this is the music industry right now.
@@John_Malloy His fans believe......? They are not that stupid who believe in eye shut down. His concerts has thousands of viweres, thousands of mobile recording him? Have you ever thought that? His fans could be curious or inteligent? They could check those fancams? I am so tired these type of fame seekers who uses Dimash😐
@@John_Malloy what are u talking abt? Dimash is actually the only artist who is moving the opposite direction of music industry flow, if not so he would have been deservingly a world wide super star by now
Glad someone has called his music out. I knew something was off hearing his music "live". I may not be able to tell what tune is playing but I can definitely pick up when something isn't natural. It's weird but my ears can feel the sounds not just hear them. When I hear auto tune it feels like nails scratching on the chalkboard.
Ok, I think any objective viewer accepts the facts. This leads to an obvious follow up question: WHY has it become such a standard within the industry that it’s applied to an obvious vocal phenom like Dimash? I’d love to see you interview a producer or engineer who supports the use of this technology to hear their views. Either way, Fil, this is some of the best stuff you’ve ever done. Thank you.
It's the same as with brickwall limiting, people just do it even though it objectively sounds bad. There's no good reason to do either, yet it almost seems like there's some unknown force that threaten every single engineer or producer into squeezing the life out of musical performances.
I found the explanation of Creactiva Mente (another sound engineer channel that has some videos about the subject) very plausible. He says that the abuse of the autotune effect is based primarily on the industry logic. The most popular songs of the last decade, the most listened to, are plagued with the use of the autotune effect. That is because to the ear and the mind, it's easier to retain a stable and simple sound than a complex and changeable one (like the natural human voice is). He says than in 21 century, in commercial music, for the industry there is a golden word and that is "simplicity": simple melodies, simple rythms, simple voices. What voice can be simpler than a generic and stable one? If you add a simple and catchy melody, there is a high probability that it can easily get stuck in peoples ears and mind. New generations are so used to it that they don't even notice they are listening to an artificial effect. That is in general. About the two artists mentioned here, Pavarotti sang opera, in many occasions without amplification (but NOT always). Dimash is independent, he has not signed to any label in exclusivity because he wants to keep creative control of his music. In his own solo concerts, they use effects like reverb and delay, but not autotune. I guess that in his presentations in some other venues (Russian tv, Slavic Bazaar, New Wave, etc.), the sound is out of his control.
@@MsLucy4ever Yes, but it is not autotuned. Creactiva told me he much prefers Krutoy productions to the Chinese ones, for example, because despite his love of prerecords he doesn't ever mess with Dimash's natural vocals.
Wow, their voices are so beautiful without auto tune. I’ve come to the conclusion these excellent singers don’t need it. Let us hear their natural voice! Thanks Fil.
Oh wow! I'm kind of a Dimash fan, watched loads of reactions to him and this was the best video on him I've seen. Thanks so much for explaining all that and proving your case, as some people really live in denial ;) You also made me realized that similarly to unrealistic expectations towards bodies we also have unrealistic expectations towards voices. That's so sad.
As a classically trained musician, my understanding of perfect pitch is nothing to with pitching your voice perfectly -- not about about singing perfectly in tune. It's about recognising a note as e.g. A or F# or being able to pitch a named note in isolation. Someone can sing brilliantly in tune (can pitch perfectly) but be unable to sing an F# to order. And vice versa! --
Having perfect pitch (in terms of recognizing notes, not necessarily singing them) is not always such a good thing. I have very strong relative pitch sense and it makes me uncomfortable when a guitar string or any other instrument isn’t in tune relatively with itself or other instruments. Imagine someone with perfect pitch trying to play a piano or other instrument that’s even slightly out of tune, and how painful that would be for them?
I can't stand an auto-tuned or pitch corrected voice. The part at 25:33, I heard it live in NY, and it was such a shocking moment, because live it sounded so rich, so powerful, so amazing. I remember exclaiming WOW, because I totally wasn't expecting that, based on the version I was used to hearing. In his solo concerts we hear his natural voice (and I prefer fancams to the finished product after). Another note is that even all the fancams and videos you can find on youtube with his unaltered voice, when listening to them it's a wonderful experience, but any speakers or headphones we may have do no justice to how MAGNIFICENT he sounds live. And one more note, he did say in an interview that he's not a fan of altered voices, and that these days anyone can become a singer. He did practice his craft from a young age, and is classically trained. It's really a shame when his raw vocals are put through autotune or pitch correction. Really such a shame! p.s. Another singer who I love, whose real voice we get to hear, is Eva Ayllon from Peru, a living legend. p.p.s. It would be so nice if you could find more unaltered performances from Dimash and include that in a video. :)
Hi Chelsea, thx for the"tip" bringing Eva Ayllon to attention. A bit to my shame I hadn't heard of her before. But that was untill now. What I've seen in just a few short views of one or two live-clips, is what I really love about real great artists: true appreciation of their musicians (and showing it) and true contact with the fans/public (and feeling it). Much like Patti LaBelle, for example, who -like Dimash- is also born on May 24th (only 50 years in between haha). And I am craaaazy of the both of them. Adding Eva doesn't seem like a bad choice at all, lol. So again: muchas gracias Chelsea! :-D
@@sanderdegroot6628 Awwww, thanks so much for your reply and for checking out Eva!! :) I'm overjoyed every time she gains a new fan! In Peru she is HUGE, and recently she received a life time achievement award from the Latin Grammys. But outside of Latin America, she is largely unknown and it's such a shame! Oh totally, as you say, she connects with the audience 100%, and shows appreciation of her musicians throughout the concert (and in real life too). Her singing is superb and so unique. With some performances I melt with the first note! I don't know where you are in this world, but she is having a mini tour in the US right now I think. Patti LaBelle, wow!! I used to listen to soul music and ONLY soul music for a while. I know all the greats. Still one of my favourite singing styles. :)) And holy cow, I didn't know she has the same bday as Dimash. That's awesome! Imagine if they sang something together? Meanwhile, I'm waiting for an Eva Dimash duet to happen. So, Eva was my fave singer, until I discovered Dimash. Now they both are. And... guess who was the only celebrity to attend Dimash's NY concert and post about it on social media? Eva!! I'm waiting for my dream come true to happen.....
The part at 25:33 you refer to has been repeated by Dimash many times in performances that are NOT autotuned so I am sure the uploader does not realise this. In a separate post I included some old links, but he's even more precise now. I also get a bit annoyed at UA-cam reviewers of Ave Maria who think it must be autotuned when, again, there are old videos of him practising those voice techniques perfectly. The other thing about Ave Maria is that he does not wear in-ear monitors, so he has no reference point. In fact, towards the end of Ave Maria there is an aural "marker" for him when you hear a BELL ring for a second, so he knows how much longer is left.
On a pragmatic note, there is no such thing as a human voice being technically pitched accurately to that of a calibrated musical intrument. You can however find singers who have an ear for excellent pitch meaning they are able to hit very close or on spot of the desired notes more often than others hence why we say they are great singers. Audio wave forms are technical data, not opinion or one's ear. I work for an electronics design and development company in the UK and engage with our electronics design engineers. We've done many audio products so yes, data don't lie. Just our ears are not perfectly calibrated. Dimash is an absolute monster of a vocalist and I've heard him sing in a home video without music, but without a reference point, it can be tricky. But even he says he is human. He sang half of SOS without music in Kazakhstan before his 2017 explosion, at a little venue. While he was very young there, it will give you an idea of his then natural singing voice. Excellent by the way. His range is phenomenal! Problem is the studios are obsessed with autotuning that even the most fantastic singers are tampered with sadly. ☹
You are correct, Sort of. You can “sync” a human voice and a keyboard (synthesizer). I believe David Foster and his “team” have actually done this. I just read a piece in MIT’s Tech journal about a group who are working on a synth that will duplicate perfectly the sound (timbre and all) of any instrument. The Fairlight was step in this direction. By the way, I wasn’t familiar with Dimash and the little I’ve heard is IMOP a freakish sounding voice I find hard to listen to. In tune naturally, imperfectly “in tune” or off key it is the tone, depth and timbre I find weird. This whole issue is gotten into the realm of absurd. We have been “fooling” around with the human voice since live performances (teens singing in stairwells, folks warbling in the shower) and since the beginnings of recorded music. Put a mic on a singer and it’s off to the races so to speak.
@@orlock20 very true. Music in performance or especially recorded is an illusion. As you note (pun intended), there is more to a vocal performance than “pitch.” Timbre, use of falsetto, yodeling ( Mutt Lange discovered that Andrea Corr (The Corrs) could yodel and had her apply that technique to great affect in a hit song “Breathless”). During the era of the diva, it was all about range and volume then came melisma! How a singer conveys emotion. Overused any of these techniques are annoying and obvious. The problem with Phil’s comparisons is taking singers from entirely different genres and styles each with its own conventions and most importantly, audiences. Pavarotti fronting Queen singing “ Somebody to Love” would be awful (my guess). Freddie Mercury singing a Buble’ song?
seems that differences in the length and form of the Eustachian tube tubes and structure of the cavities in the head may be why some singers seem so able to hit and hold more pleasing tones when they are using their voice, some sort of positive reinforcement is going on
Both Dimash and Pavarotti are remarkably consistent, when uncorrected. I mean, look at the evenness of those vibratos. I'm not terribly familiar with Dimash, but clearly he is a phenomenal singer. PHENOMENAL. However, your waveform illustrations are spot on. I hear no "hate" from Fil about Dimash, his voice or his singing. Fil says more than once that Dimash's and Pavarotti's pitch senses are very close. That's pretty bluidy high praise! Great video again, Fil. OK, I'm convinced. I'm hitting the subscribe button.
You might know rules of logic like this: " If A, then B". In this analysis, WoP says " if A (normal voice), then B (too perfect compared to A, therefore autotune). Except that, in this case, A was wrong. A was Dimash' sick voice. To be able to make a proper " if A, then B " analysis, the recording used for A must be utmost quality, and deal with the same octave. Dimash wave sounds are very messy in mixed voice, as to be expected, but his wave pattern becomes surgically precise in head voice. So sadly, this analysis, though very interesting, to be valid, would need to use an appropriate "A".
comparing Pavarotti doing vocal warm ups and Dimash singing acapella on stage and saying that Dimash is "close" to Pavarotti? That is not objectivity. And speculating about the parts that cannot be seen on the monitor. I'm a huge fan of Pavarotti but this is not a fair comparison for this phenomenal young artist who is doing exceptional acrobatics with his voice while Pavarotti was mostly just standing still and singing perfectly using only the operatic technique. I don't hear hate either but I definitely hear prejudice, sorry.
One thing about Dimash is that he sings constantly. All of the time. And anyone who has listened to him and follows him has heard him over and over and over again singing perfectly live and not auto tuned. I do not know why anyone has chosen to do this to Dimash. From what he has said in the past, it is hard to believe that he is o.k. with this. He has worked way to hard every day of his entire life not to want to be heard naturally. His voice is amazing and unmatched. And it is that way when there has been no alterations. Thank you
It's the bitterness. And obviously being defensive. This was a pathetic attempt at "analyses". So many things wrong in this analysis. Comapring Pavarotti warming up vs Dimash singing an actual song then comapring that song to a completely different song. This was a bias analysis to support his perspective. I unsubscribed for this reason. I thought this guy was legit but being defensive takes away his merit.
@@dcazador7401 instructive how? is he teaching us about auto tuning? what is he illustrating here exactly? cause based on his intro, it's a lot about Dimash. Not sure exactly what his point is?
@@ameladolnz7784 did i argue that? his comparison to Pavarotti clearly has undertones. whether intentional or not. but it's clear he's being defensive on his previous statements about Dimash. he could have chose a different artist to illustrate the difference between a natural singing voice vs autotune, let's say Taylor Swift. then his point is clear about autotune. you don't need two artists to illustrate it. else, it will be about comparing those two artists. he's almost implying that Dimash "autotunes" which discredit the fact that Dimash has something special and unique,; and discredits Dimash vocal ability. he's not saying that directly, but what was his point of "this" analysis exactly?
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Yup. Perfect pitch is the ability to remember notes - and hearing them in your head, like you can picture a house in your head - just like remembering e.g. colours, and therefore being able to identify a note by name when they hear it without the need of an external reference pitch. Singing a note perfectly on pitch, on the other hand, is the result of mastering all the muscles involved in singing to reproduce the note you hear or think of. So it's not unusual for people with perfect pitch not being able to sing on pitch. It's as if I would show you a colour, you would probably be able to identify it correctly, but if I gave you a painters palette with a range of colours, you would probably not be able to reproduce the exact colour by mixing the available colours, unless you had mastered the art of colour blending.
No, it doesn’t, but obviously if somebody DOES have perfect pitch, and is also a singer, having perfect pitch will help them hit notes correctly, because they can tell when they are wrong. This is particularly the case when singing a cappella. A singer with perfect pitch doesn’t need a reference note from an instrument to know where to pitch their voice.
I always think I can't watch these long analyses but then I do watch and enjoy. Love the deep dive and how you make me understand that which I don't think I will understand. Just subscribed. Thanks for your work FIL!❤️
Amazing! Not a musician and had no idea what a science there is behind the sound. Loove Pavorati. Never heard of Dimash but looking him up now! thank you for the exposure and analysis. Also a fan of your work too! so fun and interesting!
As a major fan of Dimash, thank you for your video. I must say: I heard Dimash live in NY and he was SPECTACULAR - with unmatched range, beauty of voice, quick recovery between songs, etc. - a vocal powerhouse - who greatly impressed my friend who had never heard him before. People should realize that good producers use every tool in their arsenal to 'polish' a product EVEN when it's unnecessary. As a painter EVERY printer I used ALWAYS tried to 'polish' reproductions of my paintings by 'upping' this color or that - according to their liking, industry standards, etc. The only way to completely control your product from beginning to end is to be both the 'originator' AND the 'producer'. Usually impossible. Dimash has great producers - who mostly get their 'calls' right - but maybe sometimes they overdo autotune. But at Dimash's concerts (without autotune) thousands of his fans go absolutely wild over his beautiful singing. No matter what - he's the greatest. (And yes - that's my opinion.)
Hi, I was also at Dimash’s concert in NYC. My husband who wasn’t a fan at the time accompanied me and couldn’t believe how beautiful of a voice he was hearing. Yes, Dimash voice is that SPECTACULAR! We have never heard a voice as delicate and yet as strong as Dimash’s! He’s the real deal when it comes to vocal abilities and true talent. It’s just in IMOP, people can’t seem to come that that realization. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the greatest. Period!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 I sooo agree! We've NEVER seen anyone with his vocal abilities! And have you noticed that he NEVER stumbles or 'mis-steps'?! I mean, he jumps, runs, etc on stage and he never falters. He's a phenomenon and aren't we blessed that we got to see him live?! I'm glad to 'meet' a fellow fan who was also at the same concert! We're fans for life, aren't we?! (And boy did I have a hard time getting to that concert - and at the last minute I had to pay the outrageous price of $!,000 a night for a tiny hotel room!) But it was worth it!! :)
k.gail Yes, I’m definitely a fan and do not consider myself a fanatic as some might address his dears. I’ve always loved listening to music from my youth and still do to this day. Never in my lifetime have I heard someone like Dimash. Of course there are and have been plenty of wonderful artists that I’ve definitely enjoyed. However, I’ve yet to witness someone who has such power and who can also sing as delicate in a moments time, and at their command as Dimash does. IMOP, what’s made other artists so well known and popular, is their songs that were written for them. I honestly believe that Dimash can sing them all, and better. The only critique that I have, is his pronunciation/ enunciation of the English language as much as I hate to admit it. Once he’s able to master that, he’s GOLDEN here in the West. Subsequently, even with that, one can not deny his masterful vocal abilities. His sound, tone, and every other aspect about his voice is astoundingly beautiful and magnificent! I’m sorry to hear that you had such difficulties getting to his concert. I too had a bit myself. I barely had anytime to even rest in my dinky hotel room as I was also on the road which seemed to be a life time of travel. I also agree with you that it was all worth it though. Listening and actually witnessing Dimash sing live is in it self, hard to describe and even comprehend at times. I so now understand why people travel across the globe. He is as unique and is as talented as one can imagine with that gorgeous voice of his. I’d definitely do it all over again and as a matter fact, I can’t wait till I do!!!!!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 You know, it's a mystery how God uses people: In 1981, when I was 25, I had a life-after-death experience where God's angels came and took me to heaven where I stood face to face with Him and Jesus. Fast forward to 2018 when I saw Dimash singing SOS on the Singer show: I was stunned because he looked exactly like the angel who had carried me to heaven and brought me back all those years ago! (In 40 years of me telling my story I've NEVER said such a thing!) So, who really knows?! Maybe he IS the angel, fully capable of singing perfectly pitched notes - or God is simply working through this talented young man.. Either way, Dimash IS a gift from God! (I'm trying to make a full, detailed video of my experience for UA-cam - but it's hard because I'm not so modernly technical!) But anyway that's my story - and why I'm so fascinated with Dimash, besides his out of this world talent.
k.gail Oh dear, I’m so intrigued by your story. I’m so glad to hear that your ok. Thank God! It must of been wonderful in the sense, that you saw Jesus and the beautiful angel, that took you from your most unfortunate death experience, to whom would give you life again. I too often wonder, if God does use individuals here on earth in specific ways that we can’t foresee. I’ve often heard the phrase, that miracles happen every day and what your sharing appears to have been one of them. I’m sure you will never forget, this moment in your life, and that your memory of it, will most likely never diminish. So, perhaps the angle that you saw and that appeared to look like Dimash, may have been who you recall seeing. Dimash does have beautiful traits. I don’t think anyone can argue that! Many actually have compared him to an angel expressing their emotions while listening and watching him sing. I have to admit, I’ve had thoughts myself with my own admiration of him. He (Dimash) does certainly display astounding and pure loving characteristics that are difficult to understand or resist. Anyway, I’m so happy that your alright, and you my dear have been blessed in so many ways! I also thank you for sharing this personal experience with me. I too feel blessed some how. 🙏🏻
Back in college, our choir director taught us to “think high” on ascending phrases, to essentially stretch our pitch slightly upwards to counter the natural tendency to go slightly flat. Conversely, we tried to push pitch slightly down on descending phrases to avoid going slightly sharp. It wasn’t that we were terribly off-pitch, it was just trying to get us thinking about pitch, and to not get lazy, especially on longer phrases and runs. It also kept us listening to those around us as we sang. These videos are very interesting.
Something I'd like to point out with regarding classical singing and Pavarotti's warm up here; In classical tenor singing we need an enormous amount of well placed breath support and airflow to be able to hit notes with full voice. While yes he was trying to hit those notes it is very likely that his goal in that exercise was moreso to get his muscles activated and get a feel of his voice during that day.
I'm a Dimash fan and love your explanations, it's always good to learn something, in this case, how things work in a studio. And forget about the negative comments and abuse. It's sad but there are some 'Dearzillas' around who don't represent him or the rest of us. Good job mate!
Thank you so much! I always tried to put my finger on the reason why "old" vocal recordings give me so much emotion and chills whilst "new" ones most of the time just sound sterile to me (even though the singer might be a great one). By the way: You are an amazing artist aswell!! Keep up the great work!
Hey! Hey! Hey! Fil, congrats on the 200,000 subscribers 🎉 Thank you for showing us how auto-tune works. It's a very interesting topic. Pavarotti, I love! Dimash, what a voice he has. I didn't know him. Ready to party tomorrow on the Live Stream. Who'll win the guitar? 🖤🤘🏽
Has Dimash ever recorded Mes a Mi, the aria with all the high Cs? I would love to compare them back to back. That said, Dimash wins hands down on range and versatility, but I give Pavarotti the edge on timbre.
@@dearm7678 you obviously missed arch Stanton's point. It might help to not take personally someone else's opinion about someone you admire. Just a thought. ✌
@@archstanton1628 You whant to hear Dimash sing? You can. Check this link ua-cam.com/video/nAQOLe9mKsc/v-deo.html If Dimash can't sing than Bocelli and Lara Fabian can't sing. But i can name many more.
Thank you!! An absolutely fascinating deep delve into auto tune and pitch correction (and the disservice it does to both established artists and up and coming singers). I totally agree with you that it is a great shame that a singer like Dimash gets autotuned (by others!!!) when he doesn't need it. His natural voice is beautiful and incredible enough. We are so used to thinking that spot on note perfection is the goal, when in fact it is expression and emotional connection that most of us are searching for. Sadly many producers just don't get it. Personally I think it is due to needing a very technically oriented mind to be a sound engineer or producer. Their nature is to strive for technical perfection. Emotion is frequently ignored and vocal errors cannot be allowed. It's all ironed out. I worked for many years with a creative as a producer and he wasn't like that. He had arguments with other producers and sound engineers over what to leave in, what to correct and what to change in a studio take. He internally 'knew'when a take was the right one, because it touched him emotionally. It was sometimes a take that others would easily have thrown out. He always said for him the perfection was in the imperfection. Everyone can sing perfectly with today's technology, so what is the difference between you and everyone else if you simply copy that? Humans are not perfect! Imperfections in the singing wake you up, they make you listen, they break through the barriers. Leave them in and connect fully.
The guy allready sounds extraordinary good naturally. Why would you make him sound like stupid robot ? Producers, just stop doing that to the music, please.
@@wingsofpegasus check his other SOS's renditions at Paris Unesco 2017, Spirit Steppe and Digital Show 2021 and let's see whether it was live or not? Pay attention in the high notes :) the pitch was still perfect with his raw voice, jezzz :) and i just realize how dumb you are for saying that performance was recording lol (at the wedding or event) everybody knows it was obviously 1000% live
@@nickkazich1904 He could be using live autotune. It does it instantly whilst they are singing. It's a tiny box connected to the microphone. The guy recording on his phone is only recording what's coming out of the speakers (after it would be autotuned). Not saying this is autotuned, just saying it's a possibility.
I don’t think current audio engineers know how to not use Autotune. Its almost as if the sound guys feel they need to justify their fee. I don’t want to listen to sanitized music.
I agree. Pretty sure it started out as a way of fixing a recording that had a few bad notes, instead of having to record the song over. But now I think they do it to tracks without even thinking about whether they're close enough without it. Obviously, being close to the note without being tuned is the ideal case, both because that means your singing well and because you get all the little fluctuations that help comunicate emotion, etc.
@@deltab9768 ,the weird thing is that perfection do not even sound better. The human unperfection is what makes us connect with music. We are humans designed to be a part of the nature and nothing in the nature are perfect. A forest with only perfect symmetrical, 100% similar trees in perfect lines? Music is actually funny, the musicians think they need computers to get absoluty perfect timing and pitch, but pay high prices for old worn and scratched instruments because they cooler than a new and perfect. You can even buy your factory new guitar "factory scatched" so it look old and worn, for a raised price.
I find this analysis fascinating, I'm not an engineer or musician, just a fan who over thinks everything. One of the things I've said for years is how modern music all sounds the same, and how I can't tell who I'm listening to on the radio. I'm exaggerating to be fair as they don't sound identical but as someone who grew up listening to music like Iron Maiden in the 80's something sounded off with modern musicians. After watching this, and your last video it seems obvious to me what my layman brain is trying to tell me, what my ears are reacting to is pitch correction and auto-tune and it's homogenizing effects on music. It's such a shame this has become so common. As a side note as well, I already have about 5,000 reason why I hate modern talent shows like X-Factor but this is a big one. How some 2 pence pop singer can sit and judge some poor kid's voice while all the time knowing their own material is "augmented" is hypocrisy at it's finest.
Iron Maiden is not a pop or too forty or adult contemporary group. Apples and oranges is a huge problem with these analogies. Every music genre has its conventions.
@@JohnLnyc I disagree, just because I mentioned one band doesn't mean my point is specific to just that band. You can pick any band or artist from 35 years ago and it would be the exact same point. As a perfect example I love Andy Bell's voice, it's not perfect and he never tried to make it perfect, especially live. It is however natural and full of emotion and as a result, much more interesting than any augmented singers I hear today, at least to me.
@@butIwantpewee He does have a nice voice and singing style. However digital vocal tuning didn’t appear until after 1998. You picked an interesting case. His later and more recent efforts have auto tune all over them. The fly in the ointment though is a change from the more classic synth driven dance pop to a more hardcore dance style. And that’s my point. But first, vocals were “shaped” using different techniques pre digital. The musical genre counts. Production is shaped by the market and the market has changed since 35 years ago. Andy’s more recent efforts are fitting into a more modern sound. I agree his earlier efforts are different. My take is the Erasure Andy is eminently listenable (you can dance to it as well), The later efforts are heavy dance with vocals in a less interesting but more modern style.
The most valuable part of perfect pitch is the ability to identify a note by hearing it. For a musician this is "context". If some singer is having an amazing singing performance and suddenly swallows some spit i do not mind a pitch touch up, but as you say it's not probable that anyone can hit every note precisely in a whole piece. One of the comments was also quite valid that it's a disservice to the singer who is really close but some ambitious engineer or producer decides it needs to be perfect. This is the same quandry that presents itself when drums are "dead on". It ruins the humanity of it all. Great piece Fil. Sorry you'll get some abuse for this but...they just don't "feel" the music like some of us do. Cheers!
@@lilym1421 I am not accusing anyone of anything. Some people like lyrics, some people like beats, some people like perfection. All I was saying was there is a certain "organic" element that has a different feel than perfection and some of us prefer that. As an example, I listened to the Eagles farewell tour, I think it was in Australia, and everything was perfect, the sound, the music, the harmonies etc and although I really enjoyed it, it seemed too perfect. That's all I was saying. No offense intended toward anyone. There is no proper way to enjoy art as far as I know, it's a personal experience. Keep enjoying the art and have a fabulous day.
@@ronb5949 Your explanation is valid and believable ( and I completely agree) but that last line of your initial comment did sound like it was initially taken. Personally I enjoyed lots of aspects of music but any enjoyed of the beat is ruined for me by the electronic beats. I will take a live stand up bass or real drums anytime but those are harder to find these days.
@@yardengali Dimash has an excellent live band in all his concerts, with a killer drummer and percussionist...everything one can imagine to the saxophone and ethnic Kazakh instruments, sometimes even the whole live orchestra... He himself is all-around musician and multi-instrumentalist. Just saying... ;)
@@paivyt. No worries, I am a fan and know Dimash is a great singer and a musician aswell. He is not who I was thinking of when writing my comment. I also know of some other excellent artists today. I was more thinking of today's general western popular musicscene. As compared to prior to the introduction of an overuse of technology in order to turn mediocrity into " stars". No doubt because people without actual artistry are way more easily manipulated and shoved into a mould.
What you are doing with these pitch analysis videos is fascinating and enlightening. Your point of view is heartfelt and coming from a place of integrity. Technology is so very seductive and far too many people are being corrupted by it.
When it comes to Dimash, i personally dont care if its autotune or not. So far, he is the one and only singer that sing to my soul, i feel peace and calmness whenever i listen to him and that matter most to me and nothing else
I'm totally with you, Adeline. I don't care, either. It's the final product in which I am interested and if autotune is sometimes being used to make that final product more spectacular than it would otherwise be, I'm all for it!
Personally I don't know why people like this UA-camr get such a kick out of knocking Dimash and trying to make him look bad. We all know that he was born with perfect pitch and any number of studio engineers and vocal coaches have stated that he doesn't use autotune. One clickbait video is not going to change our opinion of him.
@@debbiemorgan859 It is clearly autotuned in this performance. The whole performance is 'produced'. Backing tracks, and tons of reverb and echo at the very least. No one is knocking Dimash, who is obviously one of the best ever.
Debbie Morgan Good for you stating how you honestly feel. I’m with you all the way! That’s exactly what this all about, to make Dimash look bad. Well, it certainly did not change my mind about Dimash or his vocal abilities either. He’s still my number one despite all attempts to discredit him.
@@Igbon5 reverb and backing tracks are very different to auto tune, there are a number of songs where Dimash clearly sings his own backing vocals like Screaming, he can hardly reproduce that in a live performance without a backing track.
Yay Phil - ♥️ Dimash & Pavarotti. Fun fact; Pavarotti is 1of 2 of Dimash’s Fav Artists, so imo perfect comparison. THX’s loved video.. ur 1 of the Best & didn’t disappoint .. Well done! Hope fans get that ur complimenting Dimash!✌️♥️
Ich finde das eine sehr interessante Analyse und ich bin überzeugt, dass diese "Korrekturen" bei allen Sängern viel öfter eingesetzt werden, als man glaubt. Das die menschliche Stimme kein Computer ist, ist auch klar. Was ich wirklich schade finde, ist dass für die Analyse der "natürlichen" Stimme eine Aufnahme genommen wurde, bei der Dimash nachweislich krank war. Das rückt den Eindruck der Objektivität etwas in's schiefe Licht. Trotzdem ein gelungener Beitrag, Dankeschön. Ich glaube die Begeisterung über Dimash liegt daran, dass er so viele unterschiedliche Gesangstechniken in einem unglaublichen Stimmumfang fast perfekt umsetzen kann. Diese Bandbreite ist absolut beeindruckend.
... und um ehrlich zu sein: auch wenn einem die Zeit dafür fehlt, passendes Material für die Analyse selber heraus zusuchen, oder zu überprüfen, müsste man vielleicht in weiterer Folge - rein zur objektiven Information Ihrer Zuseher - die Information, dass Dimash bei der Aufnahme ernsthaft erkrankt war, nachreichen, sprich anpinnen. Dann würde diese Analyse noch professioneller werden ... nur meine persönliche Meinung ✌💙
Да! Я не ошиблась, это именно та запись из Китая, где он пел с больным горлом. Было видно,что голос не слушается и ему тяжело петь. Он просто не смог обидеть тех, кто пришел увидеться с ним и спел немного акапелло. Это было очень трогательно. И, конечно, такое выступление нельзя расценивать как показатель реальных возможностей вокалиста.
@@aivlysregenstern2668 Ob er krank war oder nicht, sollte nicht berücksichtigt werden. Es kann nicht nachgewiesen werden, dass seine Leistung besser gewesen wäre. Seine Krankheit überhaupt zu erwähnen, ist es ein Beurteilungspotential, das nie gezeigt wurde. Das ist die Erhebung eines bloßen Menschen zu Gott. Wenn es bessere Leistungen gibt, als er nicht krank war, dann lass diese für ihn sprechen - nicht die Annahmen von Leuten, die ihn noch größer haben wollen, als er ist.
In fact, these are all words. To understand what an artist is worth, you need to attend his concert. I also thought that I would go to one concert and it would be enough for me .. But no ... I want to listen to this voice and this singing again and again .. Maybe that's why people, having visited his concert once, then constantly go to all his concerts.
You nailed it Fil, the human voice does lose it’s humanity when it is auto tuned and/or pitch corrected. We come for the soul,the emotion of the singers REAL voice.
Dimash has amazing live vocals in concerts, or just casual a capella moments behind scenes. He is always singing. 😎 I wish they would not adjust his voice in studio, because he is under-appreciated in this era of "autotune" and he has worked so hard on his craft and takes it seriously.🙄 No human pitch is truly "perfect" but he is really close....and Pavarotti is one of his inspirations.👍 His teacher identified him with "perfect pitch" at age 5 when he complained that the piano was out of tune.🤣
@@sahinberga good example is dimash singing sos beautifully in the ‘world’s best’ competition where there’s no autotuning. Another one is dimash and placido Domingo singing the duet pearl fisher obviously life. You can see he does not need autotuning.
@@mariasloan2284 "He doesn't need autotuning" and "he is using autotuning" are separate things. They might be using in "world's best" because TV shows are generally infamous in using autotune/pitch correction. Almost 90% of those TV music "competition" shows use pitch correction or autotune before airing the performances.
@@sahinberg if the point is about his capability, there’s plenty of evidence that there’s no need to cast doubt as we all know that he sings acapella all the time sometimes without a mic.. Also, he’s using autotuning and he’s being autotuned are two different things. It’s unfair to the singer to make assumptions.
@@mariasloan2284 "all the time sometimes"? Your sentence itself is confusing. It was shown by pitch monitoring software analysis that he used autotune in some of his concerts, if not all.
One thing to keep in mind is that classical musicians, especially singers and string players, tend to gravitate toward what is know as “just intonation” for the given key they are in. This means certain notes (mainly 3rds, 6ths, etc., though not octaves or 5ths generally) are mathematically more in tune for that key, but would be more out of tune than usual in the context of some other key. Pitch meters are almost always measuring the compromise of equal temperament (which modern pianos are typically tuned to), in which every scale or key is equally out of tune. So when a pitch meter says someone is out of tune, sometimes the pitch meter itself is just wrong, because it’s expecting the note to be slightly out of tune, and will say it’s off when in fact it is perfectly in tune within the context of a given scale. A second thing is that not all pianos and particularly not all orchestras tune to A=440. So if everything is sharp or everything is flat, it could be that the pitch meter just wasn’t calibrated to the pitch center the music is being played at. Similarly, singers and instrumental soloists may intentionally exaggerate pitch fluctuations (particularly sharpness) to produce emotional effects. That said, nobody is perfect, and particularly in quick notes or big leaps, accuracy is often pretty spotty. But it might still sound in tune because the pitch isn’t actually staying the same, there are slides, glissandos, portamento into or out of a note. So at some point in there it may go through the correct pitch, and in combination with vibrato, it may sound correct even if very little of the time actually hits the pitch. While you’re right that it would be terrible to pitch correct something that a singer can almost never hit, the reality is usually more like correcting some of the natural fluctuations and mistakes in a given take. Meaning notes which the singer hits 9 out of 10 times perfectly, but happened to miss in this particular take. The usual alternatives would be to do 100 takes until one is absolutely perfect from beginning to end, or else record a few takes, then edit them together to remove any flaws from the main take by replacing those bits with that part of some other take where that mistake didn’t occur. Sometimes a bit of pitch correction is quicker and easier and more seamless than editing in the note from another take or recording 50 more takes.
Good points. It's very true. Guitarists and other non classical musicians live with imperfect pitches but there's really no other way to play in different keys. All one has to do is listen to someone like Steve Vai playing with an orchestra to realise that something's not right.
I can't speak for Autotune, but the pitch correction plugins that comes with the Reaper DAW and TC Helicon's vocal pitch correction gear all alow the selection of the key as well as a chromatic option.
You saved me a whole lot of writing! As a fan of Pavarotti's, I can say that he often sings microtonally sharp, producing a very characteristic "bright" sound. It may also be that it helps him to cut through the sound of the orchestra better. Note that in the clip. the piano note was very flat in comparison to Pavarotti, but after playing the note Pavarotti made no attempt whatsoever to tune to that note. (Or if he was tuning to it, he was maintaining the same "sharpness" relative to that note.)
You bring to my mind , this wierd phenomena that has developed in this studio music . The sound engineers have a habit of blanket auto tuning . I guess what I'm saying is , rather than touch up the one or two out of tune notes in a studio performance. The engineer simply coats the whole performance in auto tune . My thinking is , it's simply engineers being repetitive in their editing job , in essence . Doing the same process over and over in a job .
Thanks for the non-auto tuned snippets of Pavarotti and Dimash! Both so impressive. May I just point out that the first Dimash clip was sung in mandarin chinese, which relies on tonal changes per word in order to have a meaning… If he held the note without flexing up or down in tone, he would be singing a different word from what the lyrics need… The second clip was probably in a non-tonal language. The SOS clip, sounds so nice. You could be right that it’s processed. Though Dimash sings all those songs live as well.
The more I think of this analysis, the faultier I see it. In fact, to compare Dimash's voice with Pavaroti for capacity to hit pitch, that was ok. Where the analysis fails is in "normal vs autotune" Dimash. WoP claims that since "normal" is uneven looking, then the more "perfect looking" notes are pitch corrected (not autotuned, but WoP flips back and forth between these two different practices). Trouble is four fold: 1-"normal" was in fact sick. 2-different octaves don't have same quality 3-different languages have different singing styles 4-WoP recognises that Dimash sick/"normal" pitch is often perfect, then insists that in the French song, because the vibratos are more often perfect, they are pitch corrected, that makes no sense. WoP starts by telling us the difference between autotune and post pitch correction, and then by the end of the video, he's claiming both pitch correction and autotune. Even in sick mode, Dimash's notes were nearly all pitch perfect, yet WoP focuses on the imperfect ones, to make claims. It's such a small snippet. Really not a valid analysis to make grand statements.
I am a new fan of your channel and totally agree with your thesis and enjoy your analysis. One quibble: When you play an excellent singer warming up or singing a cappella without reference backing tracks, the likelihood of natural variance is much higher than how they would naturally sound with reference notes that show them the real pitch of every note, right? This isn't to say the real performance isn't wildly variant but it should be much less so with instrumental references which are often perfectly tuned to 440, like keyboards. Also a vocalist warming up is maybe still stretching to get his or her voice in tune. It is hard to produce such content though since every live or studio recording could be digitally altered or get instrumental interference. Would be cool if more producers released the unedited "real" tracks for such educational content.
Just to let you know, Dimash was really sick with the flu during the acapella performance used as the first example. He was supposedly coughing blood just before getting on stage, but wanted to give his fans something little since he couldn't perform properly that day.
@@wingsofpegasus No, that shows me, what you're trying to do - to provoke. This is not a random choice. You just need movement on your account, that's all.
@@katyasteinke7021 I wish I had the time to endlessly search out videos, but I don't. That's why I just rely on people's links that they send me, they don't give me any background information, just a link. Exactly as has happened on this comment! Read the pinned comment.
@@wingsofpegasus It's still essential to critique the examples used in analyzes. The context is important. I've made a scientific analysis also, judging the material/source is a basic principle. There are plenty of examples, if you were seeking Dimash's acapella or without mic singing. But if you were seeking where Dimash is also out of tune - that's rather difficult to find:):) Fans might have known some... Anyway, the least would be, to set things right in analysis. An artist singing very sick is not how the person normally sounds; there is no comparison and it should be mentioned. I wonder if that person who gave you the link about Dimash singing badly sick knew what he was doing... Just a constructive feedback. You explain things clearly, I like that. This subject really is relevant in our times... It's unfortunate that for many, live human sound is not respected as it should be.
i remember Paul Gilbert once said ' if you can't play it live don't record it', and he was talking about all the punch-ins and digital ways of merging and consolidating various regions together to get a fine track
What an education this commentary is - I just thought Dimash had an odd sound, but now I understand it's the Correcting and Automating that I'm hearing. I connect much better with his unadulterated voice and wish I could hear more of that! Really appreciated hearing the Pavarotti warm-up session and the nuanced comparison of two amazing voices.
Wow - your explanation of Dimash's autotuned recordings really, really hit home with me! I always felt his voice is too mechanical. But your explanation of how autotune is used in his recordings made me explore more of his live performances, and now I see how wonderful he is. What a shame that these engineering tools are abusing singers' talents.
Very interesting, great to hear from an expert. Wonderful seeing Pavarotti and Dimash on the same page. I had the thrill of attending a Dimash concert 2019 in New York and I understand what you are saying totally. However he entertains his devoted audience 100%. And his vocal skills are amazing. Then add his warm personality and his excitement being on stage in NY - I’m looking forward to his next concert. Have you listened to his vocalisation of “Know”. That is one of his marvellous performances. 🤗🤗🤗
There is a sound engineer here on YT called Creativamente who has already addressed the issue of Dimash and autotune. He compares both natural vocals and autotuned ones and explains what the graphics showed and he clearly concluded that applying autotune on Dimash for more than stylistic purposes is not viable. It has more to do with the way Dimash sings that is incompatible with autotune. To prove it he does it and sounds hilarious.
That sound engineer you cited, includes in his analysis the subarmonics, and you right... He says it would be a waste of time autotuning Dimash's voice... And yeah, the result of doing that is weird...
I prefer Dimash's lower register. Can you imagine how different the world would be if they had auto-tuned Janis Joplin, Sarah Vaughan, Tony Bennett, Billie Holiday? It really does take the soul and feeling out of music nowadays. The great Harry Nilsson was another one that I'd like you to examine at some point. I really enjoy your videos.
I'm big fan of Dimash no Backclash. Facts are the facts. Thank you being objective. For me, Dimash is still the greatest singer I ever heard through my lifetime.
I was at Dimash's concerts. And always next to the stage. Concerts are always live. And the voice sounds much more voluminous than in any recording. Note to note.
Thank you for such a thorough explanation! Just wanted to mention that the first recording of Dimash that you used was the one from when he had a sore throat and couldn't perform, but he didn't want to upset his fans who came to the event, so he sang a cappella a piece of the song.
Dimash can sing live and a really great singer, auto tune or not, doesn't matter for me., is his team choice, Great singer can be auto tune, but bad singer do need auto tune, and they can not sing live, may by one song or two, good one may be can sing 90 min. concert, but Dimash can sing 3 hours live concert without problem, nobody is perfect, but Dimash is my favorite singer at this not perfect world time right now.
Just wanted to make a point. If you are a bad singer. Not even auto tune will make you sound good. You have to be at least a good singer for people to take notice that you can really sing. Sure auto tune can make even a very very young kid sound like his/she is on pitch, but they still don't sound like someone you'll want to listen to. The whole point of this video is to let people know that auto tune is used on most everyone at times. I was introduced to an engineer who showed me exactly how to know if someone is auto tuned or not using a graph like the one shown hear. I learned though, that if an engineer in post editing knows what he's doing not even the best ears can tell a great singer is being pitch corrected unless they can see the graph.
As someone who came of age during the late 60s-early 70s, and who is mainly a classical listener but still enjoys the rock of that era and the blues revival (and hates disco), I found this video fascinating and most informative. I'd heard the terms "auto-tune" and "pitch-correction" but didn't really understand them. Thanks for the demo and very clear explanations. I've been sampling your videos for a while, but you got my subscription with this one!
Where you pointed out pitch correction, the vibrato was ranging a half step above AND below the note. In the live performance, his vibrato ranged only over a half step with the bottom of the vibrato often being almost directly on the note which is probably why it doesn't jump out as incorrect...his own version of "auto tune"?
OK,OK, But there is more to performances than just singing. I know that sounds strange, but it's true. People watch and LOVE Dimash for the whole package. Number 1 is that he is such a phenom singer with his RANGE. Second, he sings with such EMOTION more than anyone else and third he is one of the NICEST, KINDEST person you will ever meet. AGAIN, IT"S THE WHOLE PACKAGE on why he is loved so much.
"Suspicious Activity"!!! oh MAN I loved that comment. hahaha Your videos are fascinating. I learn so much so thank you for all the time & effort you put in for these videos. They (whoever "they" is) need to show your videos in music & band classes at schools. ...I think students would have a greater appreciation of music...including different genres when they learn what they're hearing.. instead of only melody with lyrics. (Lorty help us when it comes to rap and hip-hop- lol)
Its simple, isn't it. 'perfect pitch' is relative in the context of the unadulterated human voice. Its absolute in the context of derivative technology. Now that we have an instrument to measure accurately, we should ditch that whole 'perfect pitch' narrative and only reference 'nearly perfect pitch in the unadulterated human voice.
I was raised musically with a different definition of "perfect pitch" To me, someone with perfect pitch has the ability to HEAR a song on the radio walk over to a piano or other instrument and play it back almost to perfection with no expectation of hitting every note vocally. Perfect pitch is the ear to the brain not the brain to the vocal chords. Human vocal chords are subject to too many variables to be accurate every time. We're human.
Yes, once you hear a reference pitch or get started singing, all you need is a good sense of relative pitch. Perfect pitch is hearing a particular note out of context and being able to say what note it is. In fact to make this distinction clearer, most musicians I know of refer to it as “absolute pitch” not “perfect pitch”. Nobody I know has used the term perfect pitch for many years. When it comes to singing or playing in tune, we just say… playing in tune, not that they have perfect pitch.
@@matthewv789 thank you for your reply. You explained it far better.my cousin was was a walking musical note. He had the ability in spades and song any genre. For me it was 14 years of The Royal Conservatory of Music working like heck so I could try to convince examiners that I knew what I was doing.
Yes it's definition does seem to vary, as it seems to be used to describe vocalists who are very accurate pitch wise. But in a less broader 'public' sense I would refer to absolute pitch as hearing a note and identifying it, and/or producing a note with no reference. I think the latter is why people associate it with vocalists.
@@wingsofpegasus When Dimash was first labelled to having perfect pitch by his music teachers, it had nothing to do with his voice or his singing. It was actually when he was learning piano at the age of 5 where he later was a champion in a piano competition. I think, his fans who heard about this story associate the "perfect pitch" with his vocals because well you know why.. I guess. At the age of 5, he was able to hear if something was actually off pitch even when others couldn't hear it. It was a story from his grandmother when she was interviewed which was actually in regards of his hearing the piano, not his singing. I think the fans picked up on that and thats when the story of pitch perfect singing started. I mean, we've heard many singers who sings good when live and many don't realize they are sometimes off pitch but we rarely hear people call them pitch perfect. I've heard Dimash singing without those pitch corrections or auto tune during his live concerts and I agree his voice is not always perfect even to the ear but I dare say that he is one of the best out there.
@@wingsofpegasus Rick Beato does a few vids {search Rick Beato son perfect pitch on here} in which he shows that his son has what he calls perfect pitch, being able to hear a note or run of notes on a piano and know what note he started on and the progression, I'm not sure if its necessarily being able to repeat that note perfectly, but perhaps to hear a song on the radio and know what key it is in.
Fil, I don't tune in, automatically (you know, auto-tune), to your posts, since I'm not a musician, though I am filled with respect at your deeply knowledgeable and intelligent commentaries, as well as the way you make it really relatable for all of us. Thank you, from Indiana, USA!
Great analysis. I remain a Dimash fan because you can see how much he has improved his techniques with time and produced some highly emotional performances. As you say it is a shame for the artist and the audience online when producers step in and try to enhance the recording we see in this way. Also most noticable in some of the junior competitions viewable online too. Thanks, John
@@Spo-Dee-O-Dee wtf are you talking about? do you know anything about singing? watch vocal coach reactions to him. its not all about range. and you should listen to "Ave Maria" or "Sinful Passion" by him.
If the intervals between notes are consistent, it will still sound good to the ears even if it isn't technically right on the modern standard for the notes. That's how an orchestra can tune to match the piano (which may or may not be perfectly in tune) and sound wonderful even if the whole orchestra is now a bit off from the objective standard. This is why the second Dimash sample still sounds good.
Dimash's natural voice, did sound at times a little bit sharp, so I could understand why they would want to pitch correct some notes, but I agree, to blanket autotune a naturally good voice is never a good mastering decision. It's bad for the artist, and for the consumer. It sounds terrible and not at all natural.
So interesting, as always btw, when in doubt I just switch to your channel to get your expertise about a performance, and thank you so much ! Just wondering whether it could be possible to compare with Balavoine version, it's old therefore, I hope, untouched neither with autotune, nor any pitch correction ? Wishing you all the best and thank you again for your precious work !
I prefer real artists like dimash or Pavarotti to be left without autotune. They really do not need it.
Ditto. Otherwise the future will sound like Cher's first autotuned song
Dimash voice sounds worst than a dying cat, especially on the high notes, it is so nasally, Mike Patton destroys this clown Dimash.
@@singjazzy6697 you mean “dyoubleeve’n’lovaftelove”? 🤖
@singjazzy6697
Technology has moved on greatly since 1990's auto-tune which is known as the Vocoder voice effect, "Pitch Correction" is alot more subtle and discreet therefore less audible to alot of consumers.
Dimash definitely doesn’t need to be auto tuned the performances are so much more emotional in natural form
Dimash, the singer, is irrelevant. What people are accustomed to hearing is Dimash "the brand," which, whether studio or live, is an auto tuned sound. His fans still believe that what they hear is actually how he sounds, so there is no incentive ($) to stop auto tuning or pitch correction. The fact that Dimash has a great stage presence is, frankly, more important to his handlers than how he sounds. But this is the music industry right now.
@@John_Malloy His fans believe......? They are not that stupid who believe in eye shut down. His concerts has thousands of viweres, thousands of mobile recording him? Have you ever thought that?
His fans could be curious or inteligent? They could check those fancams? I am so tired these type of fame seekers who uses Dimash😐
@@John_Malloy what are u talking abt? Dimash is actually the only artist who is moving the opposite direction of music industry flow, if not so he would have been deservingly a world wide super star by now
@@kaiumuzzaman8709 well said my friend thank u
kaiumuz zaman Thats exactly how I feel.
It is disturbing when some people can't tell the difference between analysis and criticism, and when they uphold faith over facts.
Sports fans are the worst. So annoying.
Criticism can have two meanings. One literally is analysis in this manner. It isn’t inherently negative.
@@Botothe.e even negative Criticism isn't Bad if its all facts 😂 but it hurts 😂
@@MineCraft-nz9pg
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A barroom critique, far from the detailed and seriously analyzed reality.
It really is disturbing. I agree.
Glad someone has called his music out. I knew something was off hearing his music "live". I may not be able to tell what tune is playing but I can definitely pick up when something isn't natural. It's weird but my ears can feel the sounds not just hear them. When I hear auto tune it feels like nails scratching on the chalkboard.
Just don't listen then.
Ok, I think any objective viewer accepts the facts. This leads to an obvious follow up question: WHY has it become such a standard within the industry that it’s applied to an obvious vocal phenom like Dimash?
I’d love to see you interview a producer or engineer who supports the use of this technology to hear their views. Either way, Fil, this is some of the best stuff you’ve ever done. Thank you.
It's the same as with brickwall limiting, people just do it even though it objectively sounds bad. There's no good reason to do either, yet it almost seems like there's some unknown force that threaten every single engineer or producer into squeezing the life out of musical performances.
I found the explanation of Creactiva Mente (another sound engineer channel that has some videos about the subject) very plausible. He says that the abuse of the autotune effect is based primarily on the industry logic. The most popular songs of the last decade, the most listened to, are plagued with the use of the autotune effect. That is because to the ear and the mind, it's easier to retain a stable and simple sound than a complex and changeable one (like the natural human voice is). He says than in 21 century, in commercial music, for the industry there is a golden word and that is "simplicity": simple melodies, simple rythms, simple voices. What voice can be simpler than a generic and stable one? If you add a simple and catchy melody, there is a high probability that it can easily get stuck in peoples ears and mind. New generations are so used to it that they don't even notice they are listening to an artificial effect.
That is in general. About the two artists mentioned here, Pavarotti sang opera, in many occasions without amplification (but NOT always). Dimash is independent, he has not signed to any label in exclusivity because he wants to keep creative control of his music. In his own solo concerts, they use effects like reverb and delay, but not autotune. I guess that in his presentations in some other venues (Russian tv, Slavic Bazaar, New Wave, etc.), the sound is out of his control.
@@MsLucy4ever Not on New Wave or Russian TV, just on Slavic and in some Chinese productions. You can ask Creactiva Mente.
@@Chabtung You're right. But in Russian TV is worse than autotune IMO, they just use prerecorded tracks
@@MsLucy4ever Yes, but it is not autotuned. Creactiva told me he much prefers Krutoy productions to the Chinese ones, for example, because despite his love of prerecords he doesn't ever mess with Dimash's natural vocals.
Wow, their voices are so beautiful without auto tune. I’ve come to the conclusion these excellent singers don’t need it. Let us hear their natural voice! Thanks Fil.
@Wings of Pegasus, Fil, had never heard of Dimash before. Thank you for introducing me to this artist!
Oh wow! I'm kind of a Dimash fan, watched loads of reactions to him and this was the best video on him I've seen. Thanks so much for explaining all that and proving your case, as some people really live in denial ;) You also made me realized that similarly to unrealistic expectations towards bodies we also have unrealistic expectations towards voices. That's so sad.
I agree, the Photoshopping of people in photographs is a similar practice to auto tuning or pitch correcting a person’s voice.
P
As a classically trained musician, my understanding of perfect pitch is nothing to with pitching your voice perfectly -- not about about singing perfectly in tune. It's about recognising a note as e.g. A or F# or being able to pitch a named note in isolation. Someone can sing brilliantly in tune (can pitch perfectly) but be unable to sing an F# to order. And vice versa!
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Yes that's correct, a lot refer to it as hitting pitches vocally, which is technically not true so I have explained it in other videos 🙂
Ye I can sing A2 and B2 G2 with no references (pretty close to them alteast) but I don't have perfect pitch
Having perfect pitch (in terms of recognizing notes, not necessarily singing them) is not always such a good thing. I have very strong relative pitch sense and it makes me uncomfortable when a guitar string or any other instrument isn’t in tune relatively with itself or other instruments. Imagine someone with perfect pitch trying to play a piano or other instrument that’s even slightly out of tune, and how painful that would be for them?
@@justintime42000 Yes it can be quite frustrating, my Dad had it and he played in an orchestra I remember him commenting about it!
@jinnyfisher4343 Thank you! I, too, am classically trained and came here to say the same thing.
I can't stand an auto-tuned or pitch corrected voice. The part at 25:33, I heard it live in NY, and it was such a shocking moment, because live it sounded so rich, so powerful, so amazing. I remember exclaiming WOW, because I totally wasn't expecting that, based on the version I was used to hearing. In his solo concerts we hear his natural voice (and I prefer fancams to the finished product after). Another note is that even all the fancams and videos you can find on youtube with his unaltered voice, when listening to them it's a wonderful experience, but any speakers or headphones we may have do no justice to how MAGNIFICENT he sounds live. And one more note, he did say in an interview that he's not a fan of altered voices, and that these days anyone can become a singer. He did practice his craft from a young age, and is classically trained. It's really a shame when his raw vocals are put through autotune or pitch correction. Really such a shame! p.s. Another singer who I love, whose real voice we get to hear, is Eva Ayllon from Peru, a living legend. p.p.s. It would be so nice if you could find more unaltered performances from Dimash and include that in a video. :)
Hi Chelsea, thx for the"tip" bringing Eva Ayllon to attention. A bit to my shame I hadn't heard of her before. But that was untill now. What I've seen in just a few short views of one or two live-clips, is what I really love about real great artists: true appreciation of their musicians (and showing it) and true contact with the fans/public (and feeling it). Much like Patti LaBelle, for example, who -like Dimash- is also born on May 24th (only 50 years in between haha). And I am craaaazy of the both of them. Adding Eva doesn't seem like a bad choice at all, lol. So again: muchas gracias Chelsea! :-D
@@sanderdegroot6628 Awwww, thanks so much for your reply and for checking out Eva!! :) I'm overjoyed every time she gains a new fan! In Peru she is HUGE, and recently she received a life time achievement award from the Latin Grammys. But outside of Latin America, she is largely unknown and it's such a shame! Oh totally, as you say, she connects with the audience 100%, and shows appreciation of her musicians throughout the concert (and in real life too). Her singing is superb and so unique. With some performances I melt with the first note! I don't know where you are in this world, but she is having a mini tour in the US right now I think. Patti LaBelle, wow!! I used to listen to soul music and ONLY soul music for a while. I know all the greats. Still one of my favourite singing styles. :)) And holy cow, I didn't know she has the same bday as Dimash. That's awesome! Imagine if they sang something together? Meanwhile, I'm waiting for an Eva Dimash duet to happen. So, Eva was my fave singer, until I discovered Dimash. Now they both are. And... guess who was the only celebrity to attend Dimash's NY concert and post about it on social media? Eva!! I'm waiting for my dream come true to happen.....
Я тоже люблю фанкамы...Только я не понимала в чем причина, почему такое разное звучание..
The part at 25:33 you refer to has been repeated by Dimash many times in performances that are NOT autotuned so I am sure the uploader does not realise this.
In a separate post I included some old links, but he's even more precise now. I also get a bit annoyed at UA-cam reviewers of Ave Maria who think it must be autotuned when, again, there are old videos of him practising those voice techniques perfectly. The other thing about Ave Maria is that he does not wear in-ear monitors, so he has no reference point. In fact, towards the end of Ave Maria there is an aural "marker" for him when you hear a BELL ring for a second, so he knows how much longer is left.
@@remakeit2628 what a clever timing trick. Dimash is just awesome, thanks for sharing.
On a pragmatic note, there is no such thing as a human voice being technically pitched accurately to that of a calibrated musical intrument. You can however find singers who have an ear for excellent pitch meaning they are able to hit very close or on spot of the desired notes more often than others hence why we say they are great singers. Audio wave forms are technical data, not opinion or one's ear. I work for an electronics design and development company in the UK and engage with our electronics design engineers. We've done many audio products so yes, data don't lie. Just our ears are not perfectly calibrated. Dimash is an absolute monster of a vocalist and I've heard him sing in a home video without music, but without a reference point, it can be tricky. But even he says he is human. He sang half of SOS without music in Kazakhstan before his 2017 explosion, at a little venue. While he was very young there, it will give you an idea of his then natural singing voice. Excellent by the way. His range is phenomenal! Problem is the studios are obsessed with autotuning that even the most fantastic singers are tampered with sadly. ☹
You are correct, Sort of. You can “sync” a human voice and a keyboard (synthesizer). I believe David Foster and his “team” have actually done this. I just read a piece in MIT’s Tech journal about a group who are working on a synth that will duplicate perfectly the sound (timbre and all) of any instrument. The Fairlight was step in this direction. By the way, I wasn’t familiar with Dimash and the little I’ve heard is IMOP a freakish sounding voice I find hard to listen to. In tune naturally, imperfectly “in tune” or off key it is the tone, depth and timbre I find weird.
This whole issue is gotten into the realm of absurd.
We have been “fooling” around with the human voice since live performances (teens singing in stairwells, folks warbling in the shower) and since the beginnings of recorded music.
Put a mic on a singer and it’s off to the races so to speak.
Great comment..
Also there are times when you don't want to be pitch accurate such as in bending notes, vibrato and wavering.
@@orlock20 very true. Music in performance or especially recorded is an illusion. As you note (pun intended), there is more to a vocal performance than “pitch.” Timbre, use of falsetto, yodeling ( Mutt Lange discovered that Andrea Corr (The Corrs) could yodel and had her apply that technique to great affect in a hit song “Breathless”).
During the era of the diva, it was all about range and volume then came melisma! How a singer conveys emotion. Overused any of these techniques are annoying and obvious. The problem with Phil’s comparisons is taking singers from entirely different genres and styles each with its own conventions and most importantly, audiences. Pavarotti fronting Queen singing “ Somebody to Love” would be awful (my guess). Freddie Mercury singing a Buble’ song?
seems that differences in the length and form of the Eustachian tube tubes and structure of the cavities in the head may be why some singers seem so able to hit and hold more pleasing tones when they are using their voice, some sort of positive reinforcement is going on
I love listening to Dimash. His range is unreal. His live shows are so full on.
Congratulations on 200k subs, Fil! I'm so happy for you and thrilled that I discovered you! This was another fascinating analysis. Shared!
Both Dimash and Pavarotti are remarkably consistent, when uncorrected. I mean, look at the evenness of those vibratos. I'm not terribly familiar with Dimash, but clearly he is a phenomenal singer. PHENOMENAL. However, your waveform illustrations are spot on. I hear no "hate" from Fil about Dimash, his voice or his singing. Fil says more than once that Dimash's and Pavarotti's pitch senses are very close. That's pretty bluidy high praise!
Great video again, Fil. OK, I'm convinced. I'm hitting the subscribe button.
Thanks!
You might know rules of logic like this: " If A, then B". In this analysis, WoP says " if A (normal voice), then B (too perfect compared to A, therefore autotune). Except that, in this case, A was wrong. A was Dimash' sick voice. To be able to make a proper " if A, then B " analysis, the recording used for A must be utmost quality, and deal with the same octave. Dimash wave sounds are very messy in mixed voice, as to be expected, but his wave pattern becomes surgically precise in head voice. So sadly, this analysis, though very interesting, to be valid, would need to use an appropriate "A".
comparing Pavarotti doing vocal warm ups and Dimash singing acapella on stage and saying that Dimash is "close" to Pavarotti? That is not objectivity. And speculating about the parts that cannot be seen on the monitor. I'm a huge fan of Pavarotti but this is not a fair comparison for this phenomenal young artist who is doing exceptional acrobatics with his voice while Pavarotti was mostly just standing still and singing perfectly using only the operatic technique. I don't hear hate either but I definitely hear prejudice, sorry.
I found Wings of Pegusas and then Dimash. Enjoy them both. Keep up the good work.
One thing about Dimash is that he sings constantly. All of the time. And anyone who has listened to him and follows him has heard him over and over and over again singing perfectly live and not auto tuned. I do not know why anyone has chosen to do this to Dimash. From what he has said in the past, it is hard to believe that he is o.k. with this. He has worked way to hard every day of his entire life not to want to be heard naturally. His voice is amazing and unmatched. And it is that way when there has been no alterations. Thank you
It's the bitterness. And obviously being defensive.
This was a pathetic attempt at "analyses".
So many things wrong in this analysis. Comapring Pavarotti warming up vs Dimash singing an actual song then comapring that song to a completely different song.
This was a bias analysis to support his perspective. I unsubscribed for this reason. I thought this guy was legit but being defensive takes away his merit.
Lol why are you mad? That version of sos was so clearly tuned. And i LOVE Dimash.
@@JJ-xi1xd Try to relax! He wasn’t comparing the voices for quality or artistry. It’s just instructive for all of us! Two great singers!
@@dcazador7401 instructive how? is he teaching us about auto tuning? what is he illustrating here exactly? cause based on his intro, it's a lot about Dimash.
Not sure exactly what his point is?
@@ameladolnz7784 did i argue that?
his comparison to Pavarotti clearly has undertones. whether intentional or not. but it's clear he's being defensive on his previous statements about Dimash.
he could have chose a different artist to illustrate the difference between a natural singing voice vs autotune, let's say Taylor Swift.
then his point is clear about autotune.
you don't need two artists to illustrate it. else, it will be about comparing those two artists.
he's almost implying that Dimash "autotunes" which discredit the fact that Dimash has something special and unique,; and discredits Dimash vocal ability.
he's not saying that directly, but what was his point of "this" analysis exactly?
Just to say-you’re doing fantastic work with this series. Keep it up!
Perfect pitch does not mean you can sing on perfect pitch, it means you can identify a note by hearing it.
Nope.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Sorry but that is exactly what it means to have perfect pitch.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Yup. Perfect pitch is the ability to remember notes - and hearing them in your head, like you can picture a house in your head - just like remembering e.g. colours, and therefore being able to identify a note by name when they hear it without the need of an external reference pitch. Singing a note perfectly on pitch, on the other hand, is the result of mastering all the muscles involved in singing to reproduce the note you hear or think of. So it's not unusual for people with perfect pitch not being able to sing on pitch.
It's as if I would show you a colour, you would probably be able to identify it correctly, but if I gave you a painters palette with a range of colours, you would probably not be able to reproduce the exact colour by mixing the available colours, unless you had mastered the art of colour blending.
No, it doesn’t, but obviously if somebody DOES have perfect pitch, and is also a singer, having perfect pitch will help them hit notes correctly, because they can tell when they are wrong. This is particularly the case when singing a cappella. A singer with perfect pitch doesn’t need a reference note from an instrument to know where to pitch their voice.
I always think I can't watch these long analyses but then I do watch and enjoy. Love the deep dive and how you make me understand that which I don't think I will understand. Just subscribed. Thanks for your work FIL!❤️
Amazing! Not a musician and had no idea what a science there is behind the sound. Loove Pavorati. Never heard of Dimash but looking him up now! thank you for the exposure and analysis. Also a fan of your work too! so fun and interesting!
As a major fan of Dimash, thank you for your video. I must say: I heard Dimash live in NY and he was SPECTACULAR - with unmatched range, beauty of voice, quick recovery between songs, etc. - a vocal powerhouse - who greatly impressed my friend who had never heard him before. People should realize that good producers use every tool in their arsenal to 'polish' a product EVEN when it's unnecessary. As a painter EVERY printer I used ALWAYS tried to 'polish' reproductions of my paintings by 'upping' this color or that - according to their liking, industry standards, etc. The only way to completely control your product from beginning to end is to be both the 'originator' AND the 'producer'. Usually impossible. Dimash has great producers - who mostly get their 'calls' right - but maybe sometimes they overdo autotune. But at Dimash's concerts (without autotune) thousands of his fans go absolutely wild over his beautiful singing. No matter what - he's the greatest. (And yes - that's my opinion.)
Hi, I was also at Dimash’s concert in NYC. My husband who wasn’t a fan at the time accompanied me and couldn’t believe how beautiful of a voice he was hearing. Yes, Dimash voice is that SPECTACULAR! We have never heard a voice as delicate and yet as strong as Dimash’s! He’s the real deal when it comes to vocal abilities and true talent. It’s just in IMOP, people can’t seem to come that that realization. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the greatest. Period!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 I sooo agree! We've NEVER seen anyone with his vocal abilities! And have you noticed that he NEVER stumbles or 'mis-steps'?! I mean, he jumps, runs, etc on stage and he never falters. He's a phenomenon and aren't we blessed that we got to see him live?! I'm glad to 'meet' a fellow fan who was also at the same concert! We're fans for life, aren't we?! (And boy did I have a hard time getting to that concert - and at the last minute I had to pay the outrageous price of $!,000 a night for a tiny hotel room!) But it was worth it!! :)
k.gail Yes, I’m definitely a fan and do not consider myself a fanatic as some might address his dears. I’ve always loved listening to music from my youth and still do to this day. Never in my lifetime have I heard someone like Dimash. Of course there are and have been plenty of wonderful artists that I’ve definitely enjoyed. However, I’ve yet to witness someone who has such power and who can also sing as delicate in a moments time, and at their command as Dimash does. IMOP, what’s made other artists so well known and popular, is their songs that were written for them. I honestly believe that Dimash can sing them all, and better. The only critique that I have, is his pronunciation/ enunciation of the English language as much as I hate to admit it. Once he’s able to master that, he’s GOLDEN here in the West. Subsequently, even with that, one can not deny his masterful vocal abilities. His sound, tone, and every other aspect about his voice is astoundingly beautiful and magnificent! I’m sorry to hear that you had such difficulties getting to his concert. I too had a bit myself. I barely had anytime to even rest in my dinky hotel room as I was also on the road which seemed to be a life time of travel. I also agree with you that it was all worth it though. Listening and actually witnessing Dimash sing live is in it self, hard to describe and even comprehend at times. I so now understand why people travel across the globe. He is as unique and is as talented as one can imagine with that gorgeous voice of his. I’d definitely do it all over again and as a matter fact, I can’t wait till I do!!!!!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 You know, it's a mystery how God uses people: In 1981, when I was 25, I had a life-after-death experience where God's angels came and took me to heaven where I stood face to face with Him and Jesus. Fast forward to 2018 when I saw Dimash singing SOS on the Singer show: I was stunned because he looked exactly like the angel who had carried me to heaven and brought me back all those years ago! (In 40 years of me telling my story I've NEVER said such a thing!) So, who really knows?! Maybe he IS the angel, fully capable of singing perfectly pitched notes - or God is simply working through this talented young man.. Either way, Dimash IS a gift from God! (I'm trying to make a full, detailed video of my experience for UA-cam - but it's hard because I'm not so modernly technical!) But anyway that's my story - and why I'm so fascinated with Dimash, besides his out of this world talent.
k.gail Oh dear, I’m so intrigued by your story. I’m so glad to hear that your ok. Thank God! It must of been wonderful in the sense, that you saw Jesus and the beautiful angel, that took you from your most unfortunate death experience, to whom would give you life again. I too often wonder, if God does use individuals here on earth in specific ways that we can’t foresee. I’ve often heard the phrase, that miracles happen every day and what your sharing appears to have been one of them. I’m sure you will never forget, this moment in your life, and that your memory of it, will most likely never diminish. So, perhaps the angle that you saw and that appeared to look like Dimash, may have been who you recall seeing. Dimash does have beautiful traits. I don’t think anyone can argue that! Many actually have compared him to an angel expressing their emotions while listening and watching him sing. I have to admit, I’ve had thoughts myself with my own admiration of him. He (Dimash) does certainly display astounding and pure loving characteristics that are difficult to understand or resist. Anyway, I’m so happy that your alright, and you my dear have been blessed in so many ways! I also thank you for sharing this personal experience with me. I too feel blessed some how. 🙏🏻
Back in college, our choir director taught us to “think high” on ascending phrases, to essentially stretch our pitch slightly upwards to counter the natural tendency to go slightly flat. Conversely, we tried to push pitch slightly down on descending phrases to avoid going slightly sharp. It wasn’t that we were terribly off-pitch, it was just trying to get us thinking about pitch, and to not get lazy, especially on longer phrases and runs. It also kept us listening to those around us as we sang. These videos are very interesting.
Yes yes yes - this too is how I was taught! Gosh it's good to see what you have done Fil Thank you You explain things really really well :D
lucky you... my choir director told me 'to be quiet till Easter' - i guess i needed autotuning
Something I'd like to point out with regarding classical singing and Pavarotti's warm up here; In classical tenor singing we need an enormous amount of well placed breath support and airflow to be able to hit notes with full voice. While yes he was trying to hit those notes it is very likely that his goal in that exercise was moreso to get his muscles activated and get a feel of his voice during that day.
I'm a Dimash fan and love your explanations, it's always good to learn something, in this case, how things work in a studio. And forget about the negative comments and abuse. It's sad but there are some 'Dearzillas' around who don't represent him or the rest of us. Good job mate!
Thank you so much! I always tried to put my finger on the reason why "old" vocal recordings give me so much emotion and chills whilst "new" ones most of the time just sound sterile to me (even though the singer might be a great one). By the way: You are an amazing artist aswell!! Keep up the great work!
Thanks!
@@wingsofpegasus You really opened my eyes (ermm... or ears :) )
Its all about the feel of the music for me. Thanks for your vids I learn so much!
Hey! Hey! Hey! Fil, congrats on the 200,000 subscribers 🎉
Thank you for showing us how auto-tune works. It's a very interesting topic.
Pavarotti, I love!
Dimash, what a voice he has. I didn't know him.
Ready to party tomorrow on the Live Stream. Who'll win the guitar? 🖤🤘🏽
Wow. You are putting Dimash at the same level as the great Pavarotti. What a great complement. 2 of the Greatest Of All Time.
especially since Dimash is like 27. He has his entire career in front of him
Compliment
" ...great _compliment_ ."
Has Dimash ever recorded Mes a Mi, the aria with all the high Cs? I would love to compare them back to back. That said, Dimash wins hands down on range and versatility, but I give Pavarotti the edge on timbre.
Whether natural or auto tuned, Dimash sounds perfect to me and just listening to his songs transports me to different beautiful places....
I think the point is that your not actually listening to Dimash.
@@archstanton1628 are you daft? I listen to Dimash everyday...even my car usb has only Dimash!
@@archstanton1628 "... _you're_ not..."
@@dearm7678 you obviously missed arch Stanton's point. It might help to not take personally someone else's opinion about someone you admire. Just a thought. ✌
@@archstanton1628 You whant to hear Dimash sing? You can. Check this link ua-cam.com/video/nAQOLe9mKsc/v-deo.html If Dimash can't sing than Bocelli and Lara Fabian can't sing. But i can name many more.
Thank you!! An absolutely fascinating deep delve into auto tune and pitch correction (and the disservice it does to both established artists and up and coming singers). I totally agree with you that it is a great shame that a singer like Dimash gets autotuned (by others!!!) when he doesn't need it. His natural voice is beautiful and incredible enough.
We are so used to thinking that spot on note perfection is the goal, when in fact it is expression and emotional connection that most of us are searching for. Sadly many producers just don't get it. Personally I think it is due to needing a very technically oriented mind to be a sound engineer or producer. Their nature is to strive for technical perfection. Emotion is frequently ignored and vocal errors cannot be allowed. It's all ironed out.
I worked for many years with a creative as a producer and he wasn't like that. He had arguments with other producers and sound engineers over what to leave in, what to correct and what to change in a studio take. He internally 'knew'when a take was the right one, because it touched him emotionally. It was sometimes a take that others would easily have thrown out. He always said for him the perfection was in the imperfection. Everyone can sing perfectly with today's technology, so what is the difference between you and everyone else if you simply copy that? Humans are not perfect! Imperfections in the singing wake you up, they make you listen, they break through the barriers. Leave them in and connect fully.
The guy allready sounds extraordinary good naturally. Why would you make him sound like stupid robot ? Producers, just stop doing that to the music, please.
its the showbiz, in his concert he has the full control.
He sang SOS at a wedding, it sounded just as good with low quality amplifier. No way was that Auto tuned.
Go back and listen to what Fil said.The auto tune is used by the studio after the singer leaves
Yes this isn't a live vocal, it's the SOS recording ☺
@@wingsofpegasus check his other SOS's renditions at Paris Unesco 2017, Spirit Steppe and Digital Show 2021 and let's see whether it was live or not? Pay attention in the high notes :) the pitch was still perfect with his raw voice, jezzz :) and i just realize how dumb you are for saying that performance was recording lol (at the wedding or event) everybody knows it was obviously 1000% live
So the guy recording him on him phone, singing live at a wedding, used auto tune?
@@nickkazich1904 He could be using live autotune. It does it instantly whilst they are singing. It's a tiny box connected to the microphone. The guy recording on his phone is only recording what's coming out of the speakers (after it would be autotuned). Not saying this is autotuned, just saying it's a possibility.
I don’t think current audio engineers know how to not use Autotune. Its almost as if the sound guys feel they need to justify their fee. I don’t want to listen to sanitized music.
I agree. Pretty sure it started out as a way of fixing a recording that had a few bad notes, instead of having to record the song over. But now I think they do it to tracks without even thinking about whether they're close enough without it.
Obviously, being close to the note without being tuned is the ideal case, both because that means your singing well and because you get all the little fluctuations that help comunicate emotion, etc.
@@deltab9768 ,the weird thing is that perfection do not even sound better. The human unperfection is what makes us connect with music. We are humans designed to be a part of the nature and nothing in the nature are perfect. A forest with only perfect symmetrical, 100% similar trees in perfect lines?
Music is actually funny, the musicians think they need computers to get absoluty perfect timing and pitch, but pay high prices for old worn and scratched instruments because they cooler than a new and perfect. You can even buy your factory new guitar "factory scatched" so it look old and worn, for a raised price.
Now I understand why some call you "Professor"!! Another great lesson learned. And congratulations on hitting 200,000 subscribers 🤘
Thanks Fil, always keeping it honest, respectful and real.
Thanks for the introduction - I had never heard of Damash. Will look for his endeavors
I find this analysis fascinating, I'm not an engineer or musician, just a fan who over thinks everything. One of the things I've said for years is how modern music all sounds the same, and how I can't tell who I'm listening to on the radio. I'm exaggerating to be fair as they don't sound identical but as someone who grew up listening to music like Iron Maiden in the 80's something sounded off with modern musicians. After watching this, and your last video it seems obvious to me what my layman brain is trying to tell me, what my ears are reacting to is pitch correction and auto-tune and it's homogenizing effects on music. It's such a shame this has become so common.
As a side note as well, I already have about 5,000 reason why I hate modern talent shows like X-Factor but this is a big one. How some 2 pence pop singer can sit and judge some poor kid's voice while all the time knowing their own material is "augmented" is hypocrisy at it's finest.
Iron Maiden is not a pop or too forty or adult contemporary group. Apples and oranges is a huge problem with these analogies. Every music genre has its conventions.
@@JohnLnyc I disagree, just because I mentioned one band doesn't mean my point is specific to just that band. You can pick any band or artist from 35 years ago and it would be the exact same point.
As a perfect example I love Andy Bell's voice, it's not perfect and he never tried to make it perfect, especially live. It is however natural and full of emotion and as a result, much more interesting than any augmented singers I hear today, at least to me.
@@butIwantpewee He does have a nice voice and singing style. However digital vocal tuning didn’t appear until after 1998. You picked an interesting case. His later and more recent efforts have auto tune all over them. The fly in the ointment though is a change from the more classic synth driven dance pop to a more hardcore dance style.
And that’s my point. But first, vocals were “shaped” using different techniques pre digital. The musical genre counts. Production is shaped by the market and the market has changed since 35 years ago. Andy’s more recent efforts are fitting into a more modern sound. I agree his earlier efforts are different. My take is the Erasure Andy is eminently listenable (you can dance to it as well), The later efforts are heavy dance with vocals in a less interesting but more modern style.
@@JohnLnyc their point has nothing to do with genre
@@lolawants2008 who’s point? My point is much different types of music or genres have their recording conventions. Not sure what you are saying here.
Well DimashK is perfect to my 60year old ears and that’s enough for me 👍🏾👍🏾His singing 🎶🎵is divine. Love your explanation Fil. Fan from NZ
The most valuable part of perfect pitch is the ability to identify a note by hearing it. For a musician this is "context". If some singer is having an amazing singing performance and suddenly swallows some spit i do not mind a pitch touch up, but as you say it's not probable that anyone can hit every note precisely in a whole piece. One of the comments was also quite valid that it's a disservice to the singer who is really close but some ambitious engineer or producer decides it needs to be perfect. This is the same quandry that presents itself when drums are "dead on". It ruins the humanity of it all. Great piece Fil. Sorry you'll get some abuse for this but...they just don't "feel" the music like some of us do. Cheers!
Ok but Have u listen to some of Dimash kudaibergens songs allowing urself to accuse others not feeling music in a proper way?
@@lilym1421 I am not accusing anyone of anything. Some people like lyrics, some people like beats, some people like perfection. All I was saying was there is a certain "organic" element that has a different feel than perfection and some of us prefer that. As an example, I listened to the Eagles farewell tour, I think it was in Australia, and everything was perfect, the sound, the music, the harmonies etc and although I really enjoyed it, it seemed too perfect. That's all I was saying. No offense intended toward anyone. There is no proper way to enjoy art as far as I know, it's a personal experience. Keep enjoying the art and have a fabulous day.
@@ronb5949 Your explanation is valid and believable ( and I completely agree) but that last line of your initial comment did sound like it was initially taken.
Personally I enjoyed lots of aspects of music but any enjoyed of the beat is ruined for me by the electronic beats. I will take a live stand up bass or real drums anytime but those are harder to find these days.
@@yardengali Dimash has an excellent live band in all his concerts, with a killer drummer and percussionist...everything one can imagine to the saxophone and ethnic Kazakh instruments, sometimes even the whole live orchestra... He himself is all-around musician and multi-instrumentalist. Just saying... ;)
@@paivyt. No worries, I am a fan and know Dimash is a great singer and a musician aswell. He is not who I was thinking of when writing my comment. I also know of some other excellent artists today. I was more thinking of today's general western popular musicscene. As compared to prior to the introduction of an overuse of technology in order to turn mediocrity into " stars". No doubt because people without actual artistry are way more easily manipulated and shoved into a mould.
Entre tantos videos que tiene Dimash encontraste solo ese ,que por cierto estaba enfermo ,Pabarotti el maestro y Dimash Es Unico ,Saludos
What you are doing with these pitch analysis videos is fascinating and enlightening. Your point of view is heartfelt and coming from a place of integrity. Technology is so very seductive and far too many people are being corrupted by it.
When it comes to Dimash, i personally dont care if its autotune or not. So far, he is the one and only singer that sing to my soul, i feel peace and calmness whenever i listen to him and that matter most to me and nothing else
I'm totally with you, Adeline. I don't care, either. It's the final product in which I am interested and if autotune is sometimes being used to make that final product more spectacular than it would otherwise be, I'm all for it!
Personally I don't know why people like this UA-camr get such a kick out of knocking Dimash and trying to make him look bad. We all know that he was born with perfect pitch and any number of studio engineers and vocal coaches have stated that he doesn't use autotune. One clickbait video is not going to change our opinion of him.
@@debbiemorgan859
It is clearly autotuned in this performance. The whole performance is 'produced'. Backing tracks, and tons of reverb and echo at the very least.
No one is knocking Dimash, who is obviously one of the best ever.
Debbie Morgan Good for you stating how you honestly feel. I’m with you all the way! That’s exactly what this all about, to make Dimash look bad. Well, it certainly did not change my mind about Dimash or his vocal abilities either. He’s still my number one despite all attempts to discredit him.
@@Igbon5 reverb and backing tracks are very different to auto tune, there are a number of songs where Dimash clearly sings his own backing vocals like Screaming, he can hardly reproduce that in a live performance without a backing track.
I learn something every time I tune in. Kudos on 200K
Yay Phil - ♥️ Dimash & Pavarotti. Fun fact; Pavarotti is 1of 2 of Dimash’s Fav Artists, so imo perfect comparison. THX’s loved video.. ur 1 of the Best & didn’t disappoint .. Well done! Hope fans get that ur complimenting Dimash!✌️♥️
Ich finde das eine sehr interessante Analyse und ich bin überzeugt, dass diese "Korrekturen" bei allen Sängern viel öfter eingesetzt werden, als man glaubt. Das die menschliche Stimme kein Computer ist, ist auch klar. Was ich wirklich schade finde, ist dass für die Analyse der "natürlichen" Stimme eine Aufnahme genommen wurde, bei der Dimash nachweislich krank war. Das rückt den Eindruck der Objektivität etwas in's schiefe Licht. Trotzdem ein gelungener Beitrag, Dankeschön. Ich glaube die Begeisterung über Dimash liegt daran, dass er so viele unterschiedliche Gesangstechniken in einem unglaublichen Stimmumfang fast perfekt umsetzen kann. Diese Bandbreite ist absolut beeindruckend.
... und um ehrlich zu sein: auch wenn einem die Zeit dafür fehlt, passendes Material für die Analyse selber heraus zusuchen, oder zu überprüfen, müsste man vielleicht in weiterer Folge - rein zur objektiven Information Ihrer Zuseher - die Information, dass Dimash bei der Aufnahme ernsthaft erkrankt war, nachreichen, sprich anpinnen. Dann würde diese Analyse noch professioneller werden ... nur meine persönliche Meinung ✌💙
@@aivlysregenstern2668, wenn man's nicht weiß, würde man einfach nicht draufkommen, dass er krank war. Weil der Mann einfach so unfassbar gut ist. ;-)
Да! Я не ошиблась, это именно та запись из Китая, где он пел с больным горлом. Было видно,что голос не слушается и ему тяжело петь. Он просто не смог обидеть тех, кто пришел увидеться с ним и спел немного акапелло. Это было очень трогательно. И, конечно, такое выступление нельзя расценивать как показатель реальных возможностей вокалиста.
@@aivlysregenstern2668 Ob er krank war oder nicht, sollte nicht berücksichtigt werden. Es kann nicht nachgewiesen werden, dass seine Leistung besser gewesen wäre. Seine Krankheit überhaupt zu erwähnen, ist es ein Beurteilungspotential, das nie gezeigt wurde. Das ist die Erhebung eines bloßen Menschen zu Gott. Wenn es bessere Leistungen gibt, als er nicht krank war, dann lass diese für ihn sprechen - nicht die Annahmen von Leuten, die ihn noch größer haben wollen, als er ist.
I have to say both these men have crazy good vocal agility.
With Dimash i do not care because he is the best at this time no one comes close in vocal skills
I feel the same!
Ur opinion
ATHENA Canada Yes it is our opinion as apparently it isn’t yours. That’s alright! ☺️
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 Yes, to me, he is not the best. Just my opinion.
@@TheRhetoricRoom that is ok, if we all liked same thing it would be boring
There are a lot of vídeos of dimash singing without a music on the background, just him, and its pure perfection.
In fact, these are all words. To understand what an artist is worth, you need to attend his concert. I also thought that I would go to one concert and it would be enough for me .. But no ... I want to listen to this voice and this singing again and again .. Maybe that's why people, having visited his concert once, then constantly go to all his concerts.
exactly. that's why I visited all the solo concerts of dimash 2019.
Is that why so many people went to thousands of Grateful Dead concerts?
@@quitwastinmytime what was the point of that question
You nailed it Fil, the human voice does lose it’s humanity when it is auto tuned and/or pitch corrected. We come for the soul,the emotion of the singers REAL voice.
Dimash has amazing live vocals in concerts, or just casual a capella moments behind scenes. He is always singing. 😎
I wish they would not adjust his voice in studio, because he is under-appreciated in this era of "autotune" and he has worked so hard on his craft and takes it seriously.🙄 No human pitch is truly "perfect" but he is really close....and Pavarotti is one of his inspirations.👍 His teacher identified him with "perfect pitch" at age 5 when he complained that the piano was out of tune.🤣
Do they use autotune live in his concerts?
@@sahinberga good example is dimash singing sos beautifully in the ‘world’s best’ competition where there’s no autotuning. Another one is dimash and placido Domingo singing the duet pearl fisher obviously life. You can see he does not need autotuning.
@@mariasloan2284 "He doesn't need autotuning" and "he is using autotuning" are separate things. They might be using in "world's best" because TV shows are generally infamous in using autotune/pitch correction. Almost 90% of those TV music "competition" shows use pitch correction or autotune before airing the performances.
@@sahinberg if the point is about his capability, there’s plenty of evidence that there’s no need to cast doubt as we all know that he sings acapella all the time sometimes without a mic.. Also, he’s using autotuning and he’s being autotuned are two different things. It’s unfair to the singer to make assumptions.
@@mariasloan2284 "all the time sometimes"? Your sentence itself is confusing. It was shown by pitch monitoring software analysis that he used autotune in some of his concerts, if not all.
Auto-tuning Dimash’s voice is similar to how fashion magazine people airbrush inches off already-skinny models.
Indeed
I applaud you Fil. You are amazing! 👏 I'm learning from you all the time. Thank you.
This was a fantastic analysis, Fil and I learned so much from it. Thank you! 🙌🏼
I think best dimash sing s.o.s live that i found on yt...when he sung that song that someone recorded to see ochestra plyr reaction.
One thing to keep in mind is that classical musicians, especially singers and string players, tend to gravitate toward what is know as “just intonation” for the given key they are in. This means certain notes (mainly 3rds, 6ths, etc., though not octaves or 5ths generally) are mathematically more in tune for that key, but would be more out of tune than usual in the context of some other key. Pitch meters are almost always measuring the compromise of equal temperament (which modern pianos are typically tuned to), in which every scale or key is equally out of tune. So when a pitch meter says someone is out of tune, sometimes the pitch meter itself is just wrong, because it’s expecting the note to be slightly out of tune, and will say it’s off when in fact it is perfectly in tune within the context of a given scale.
A second thing is that not all pianos and particularly not all orchestras tune to A=440. So if everything is sharp or everything is flat, it could be that the pitch meter just wasn’t calibrated to the pitch center the music is being played at.
Similarly, singers and instrumental soloists may intentionally exaggerate pitch fluctuations (particularly sharpness) to produce emotional effects. That said, nobody is perfect, and particularly in quick notes or big leaps, accuracy is often pretty spotty. But it might still sound in tune because the pitch isn’t actually staying the same, there are slides, glissandos, portamento into or out of a note. So at some point in there it may go through the correct pitch, and in combination with vibrato, it may sound correct even if very little of the time actually hits the pitch.
While you’re right that it would be terrible to pitch correct something that a singer can almost never hit, the reality is usually more like correcting some of the natural fluctuations and mistakes in a given take. Meaning notes which the singer hits 9 out of 10 times perfectly, but happened to miss in this particular take. The usual alternatives would be to do 100 takes until one is absolutely perfect from beginning to end, or else record a few takes, then edit them together to remove any flaws from the main take by replacing those bits with that part of some other take where that mistake didn’t occur. Sometimes a bit of pitch correction is quicker and easier and more seamless than editing in the note from another take or recording 50 more takes.
Good points. It's very true. Guitarists and other non classical musicians live with imperfect pitches but there's really no other way to play in different keys. All one has to do is listen to someone like Steve Vai playing with an orchestra to realise that something's not right.
Minor touch ups are fine deliberately messing around and making something unnatural isn’t
I can't speak for Autotune, but the pitch correction plugins that comes with the Reaper DAW and TC Helicon's vocal pitch correction gear all alow the selection of the key as well as a chromatic option.
You saved me a whole lot of writing! As a fan of Pavarotti's, I can say that he often sings microtonally sharp, producing a very characteristic "bright" sound. It may also be that it helps him to cut through the sound of the orchestra better. Note that in the clip. the piano note was very flat in comparison to Pavarotti, but after playing the note Pavarotti made no attempt whatsoever to tune to that note. (Or if he was tuning to it, he was maintaining the same "sharpness" relative to that note.)
You bring to my mind , this wierd phenomena that has developed in this studio music . The sound engineers have a habit of blanket auto tuning . I guess what I'm saying is , rather than touch up the one or two out of tune notes in a studio performance. The engineer simply coats the whole performance in auto tune . My thinking is , it's simply engineers being repetitive in their editing job , in essence . Doing the same process over and over in a job .
You should check out the singers that make it to the top of the Billboard. How many of them really sing?
Amen.
none?
Yup agree he should do that👍
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼😆😆😆
@@robclark3095 ed sheeran: ahem
Thanks for the non-auto tuned snippets of Pavarotti and Dimash! Both so impressive.
May I just point out that the first Dimash clip was sung in mandarin chinese, which relies on tonal changes per word in order to have a meaning… If he held the note without flexing up or down in tone, he would be singing a different word from what the lyrics need… The second clip was probably in a non-tonal language.
The SOS clip, sounds so nice. You could be right that it’s processed. Though Dimash sings all those songs live as well.
The more I think of this analysis, the faultier I see it. In fact, to compare Dimash's voice with Pavaroti for capacity to hit pitch, that was ok.
Where the analysis fails is in "normal vs autotune" Dimash. WoP claims that since "normal" is uneven looking, then the more "perfect looking" notes are pitch corrected (not autotuned, but WoP flips back and forth between these two different practices). Trouble is four fold:
1-"normal" was in fact sick.
2-different octaves don't have same quality
3-different languages have different singing styles
4-WoP recognises that Dimash sick/"normal" pitch is often perfect, then insists that in the French song, because the vibratos are more often perfect, they are pitch corrected, that makes no sense.
WoP starts by telling us the difference between autotune and post pitch correction, and then by the end of the video, he's claiming both pitch correction and autotune.
Even in sick mode, Dimash's notes were nearly all pitch perfect, yet WoP focuses on the imperfect ones, to make claims.
It's such a small snippet. Really not a valid analysis to make grand statements.
I am a new fan of your channel and totally agree with your thesis and enjoy your analysis.
One quibble: When you play an excellent singer warming up or singing a cappella without reference backing tracks, the likelihood of natural variance is much higher than how they would naturally sound with reference notes that show them the real pitch of every note, right?
This isn't to say the real performance isn't wildly variant but it should be much less so with instrumental references which are often perfectly tuned to 440, like keyboards.
Also a vocalist warming up is maybe still stretching to get his or her voice in tune.
It is hard to produce such content though since every live or studio recording could be digitally altered or get instrumental interference. Would be cool if more producers released the unedited "real" tracks for such educational content.
Вы не нормальный?! Привет из России! 🇷🇺!!!
I've never heard of Dimash, (not my style by the sounds of him), but what a voice and vocal range. Very impressive. No need for autotune.
He has a wide range of styles - it would be worth your while to check out a number of his songs and videos. He doesn't fit into a particular genre.
Brilliant, Fil. You’re providing a great service to music lovers.
Just to let you know, Dimash was really sick with the flu during the acapella performance used as the first example. He was supposedly coughing blood just before getting on stage, but wanted to give his fans something little since he couldn't perform properly that day.
ua-cam.com/video/g1vUH-j5d3c/v-deo.html
Yes that makes it even more impressive!
@@wingsofpegasus No, that shows me, what you're trying to do - to provoke. This is not a random choice. You just need movement on your account, that's all.
@@katyasteinke7021 I wish I had the time to endlessly search out videos, but I don't. That's why I just rely on people's links that they send me, they don't give me any background information, just a link. Exactly as has happened on this comment! Read the pinned comment.
@@wingsofpegasus It's still essential to critique the examples used in analyzes. The context is important. I've made a scientific analysis also, judging the material/source is a basic principle. There are plenty of examples, if you were seeking Dimash's acapella or without mic singing. But if you were seeking where Dimash is also out of tune - that's rather difficult to find:):) Fans might have known some... Anyway, the least would be, to set things right in analysis. An artist singing very sick is not how the person normally sounds; there is no comparison and it should be mentioned. I wonder if that person who gave you the link about Dimash singing badly sick knew what he was doing... Just a constructive feedback. You explain things clearly, I like that. This subject really is relevant in our times... It's unfortunate that for many, live human sound is not respected as it should be.
i remember Paul Gilbert once said ' if you can't play it live don't record it', and he was talking about all the punch-ins and digital ways of merging and consolidating various regions together to get a fine track
Paul Gilbert is absolutly 100% spot on! I don't mind if people miss a note or two, but it seems some are totally incapable of bringing a song live 😖
What an education this commentary is - I just thought Dimash had an odd sound, but now I understand it's the Correcting and Automating that I'm hearing. I connect much better with his unadulterated voice and wish I could hear more of that! Really appreciated hearing the Pavarotti warm-up session and the nuanced comparison of two amazing voices.
Wow - your explanation of Dimash's autotuned recordings really, really hit home with me! I always felt his voice is too mechanical. But your explanation of how autotune is used in his recordings made me explore more of his live performances, and now I see how wonderful he is. What a shame that these engineering tools are abusing singers' talents.
Very interesting, great to hear from an expert. Wonderful seeing Pavarotti and Dimash on the same page. I had the thrill of attending a Dimash concert 2019 in New York and I understand what you are saying totally. However he entertains his devoted audience 100%. And his vocal skills are amazing. Then add his warm personality and his excitement being on stage in NY - I’m looking forward to his next concert. Have you listened to his vocalisation of “Know”. That is one of his marvellous performances. 🤗🤗🤗
There is a sound engineer here on YT called Creativamente who has already addressed the issue of Dimash and autotune. He compares both natural vocals and autotuned ones and explains what the graphics showed and he clearly concluded that applying autotune on Dimash for more than stylistic purposes is not viable. It has more to do with the way Dimash sings that is incompatible with autotune. To prove it he does it and sounds hilarious.
That sound engineer you cited, includes in his analysis the subarmonics, and you right... He says it would be a waste of time autotuning Dimash's voice... And yeah, the result of doing that is weird...
This is the sound engineer you cited. ua-cam.com/video/m_rQbxCB4dY/v-deo.html
25:32
He only used autotune in a really not subtle way on Dimash voice. He didn't address the pitch correction issue.
@@TheRhetoricRoom If you mean Creativamente's video, Yes he did. The whole video is about correction pitch and how it would look like in the graphics.
I prefer Dimash's lower register. Can you imagine how different the world would be if they had auto-tuned Janis Joplin, Sarah Vaughan, Tony Bennett, Billie Holiday? It really does take the soul and feeling out of music nowadays. The great Harry Nilsson was another one that I'd like you to examine at some point.
I really enjoy your videos.
Thank you…. I adore Dimash and appreciate your analysis. I would love love to see him live where there is no autocorrecting.
I do enjoy how much your graph has to go up and down when Di is singing 😂❤
I'm not a Dimash fan but can appreciate his vocal range. Very interesting video. Thank you 😁👍
I'm big fan of Dimash no Backclash. Facts are the facts. Thank you being objective. For me, Dimash is still the greatest singer I ever heard through my lifetime.
I prefer Beth Hart. However, Diana Ankudinova is probably he best new singer although I don't like her taste in music so far.
I agree!
No autotune here. ua-cam.com/video/V-77sjOWCkQ/v-deo.html
I was at Dimash's concerts. And always next to the stage. Concerts are always live. And the voice sounds much more voluminous than in any recording. Note to note.
Thank you I love Dimash even more 1️⃣ the best unique the only Dimash😍
Thanks for the analysis, Dimash is my favourite singer and I listen to him in daily basis😊
Thank you for such a thorough explanation! Just wanted to mention that the first recording of Dimash that you used was the one from when he had a sore throat and couldn't perform, but he didn't want to upset his fans who came to the event, so he sang a cappella a piece of the song.
Thanks I'm aware of the circumstances making singing while unwell even more impressive!
Dimash can sing live and a really great singer, auto tune or not, doesn't matter for me., is his team choice, Great singer can be auto tune, but bad singer do need auto tune, and they can not sing live, may by one song or two, good one may be can sing 90 min. concert, but Dimash can sing 3 hours live concert without problem, nobody is perfect, but Dimash is my favorite singer at this not perfect world time right now.
Just wanted to make a point. If you are a bad singer. Not even auto tune will make you sound good. You have to be at least a good singer for people to take notice that you can really sing. Sure auto tune can make even a very very young kid sound like his/she is on pitch, but they still don't sound like someone you'll want to listen to. The whole point of this video is to let people know that auto tune is used on most everyone at times. I was introduced to an engineer who showed me exactly how to know if someone is auto tuned or not using a graph like the one shown hear. I learned though, that if an engineer in post editing knows what he's doing not even the best ears can tell a great singer is being pitch corrected unless they can see the graph.
Sums it up nicely. Good singers can have small corrections done. Bad singers NEED corrections
I appreciate Dimash even more after watching this. Thank you for the analysis 🧐. Dimash is amazing. Bravo.
I love Dimash singing what ever you say...he is amazing ....never he say he is perfect he always try his best...Respect
As someone who came of age during the late 60s-early 70s, and who is mainly a classical listener but still enjoys the rock of that era and the blues revival (and hates disco), I found this video fascinating and most informative. I'd heard the terms "auto-tune" and "pitch-correction" but didn't really understand them. Thanks for the demo and very clear explanations. I've been sampling your videos for a while, but you got my subscription with this one!
Thanks!
Where you pointed out pitch correction, the vibrato was ranging a half step above AND below the note. In the live performance, his vibrato ranged only over a half step with the bottom of the vibrato often being almost directly on the note which is probably why it doesn't jump out as incorrect...his own version of "auto tune"?
OK,OK, But there is more to performances than just singing. I know that sounds strange, but it's true. People watch and LOVE Dimash for the whole package. Number 1 is that he is such a phenom singer with his RANGE. Second, he sings with such EMOTION more than anyone else and third he is one of the NICEST, KINDEST person you will ever meet. AGAIN, IT"S THE WHOLE PACKAGE on why he is loved so much.
What I took from this video was that there's nothing wrong with Dimash's voice, and that if anything it should be left alone and not 'corrected'.
"...Dimash's range is crazy so the pitch monitor can't get up that high quick enough to see those top notes". Well, need we say more, lol ?
"Suspicious Activity"!!! oh MAN I loved that comment. hahaha Your videos are fascinating. I learn so much so thank you for all the time & effort you put in for these videos. They (whoever "they" is) need to show your videos in music & band classes at schools. ...I think students would have a greater appreciation of music...including different genres when they learn what they're hearing.. instead of only melody with lyrics. (Lorty help us when it comes to rap and hip-hop- lol)
Great, insightful and beautifully balanced analysis. Straight after this I got a pop up add for an auto-tune plug in!
I love how you can explain the differences in these terms and still make it enjoyable to learn. Thanks.
Adoro a Pavarroti pero Dimash Qudaibegen gano mi corazón y mi alma ❤️🇦🇷 vayan a escucharlo en vivo a ver si usa autotun
Its simple, isn't it. 'perfect pitch' is relative in the context of the unadulterated human voice. Its absolute in the context of derivative technology. Now that we have an instrument to measure accurately, we should ditch that whole 'perfect pitch' narrative and only reference 'nearly perfect pitch in the unadulterated human voice.
Another great video. Thank you. Ready for the next one.
Very informative! Thank you!
I was raised musically with a different definition of "perfect pitch" To me, someone with perfect pitch has the ability to HEAR a song on the radio walk over to a piano or other instrument and play it back almost to perfection with no expectation of hitting every note vocally. Perfect pitch is the ear to the brain not the brain to the vocal chords. Human vocal chords are subject to too many variables to be accurate every time. We're human.
Yes, once you hear a reference pitch or get started singing, all you need is a good sense of relative pitch. Perfect pitch is hearing a particular note out of context and being able to say what note it is. In fact to make this distinction clearer, most musicians I know of refer to it as “absolute pitch” not “perfect pitch”. Nobody I know has used the term perfect pitch for many years. When it comes to singing or playing in tune, we just say… playing in tune, not that they have perfect pitch.
@@matthewv789 thank you for your reply. You explained it far better.my cousin was was a walking musical note. He had the ability in spades and song any genre. For me it was 14 years of The Royal Conservatory of Music working like heck so I could try to convince examiners that I knew what I was doing.
Yes it's definition does seem to vary, as it seems to be used to describe vocalists who are very accurate pitch wise. But in a less broader 'public' sense I would refer to absolute pitch as hearing a note and identifying it, and/or producing a note with no reference. I think the latter is why people associate it with vocalists.
@@wingsofpegasus When Dimash was first labelled to having perfect pitch by his music teachers, it had nothing to do with his voice or his singing. It was actually when he was learning piano at the age of 5 where he later was a champion in a piano competition. I think, his fans who heard about this story associate the "perfect pitch" with his vocals because well you know why.. I guess. At the age of 5, he was able to hear if something was actually off pitch even when others couldn't hear it. It was a story from his grandmother when she was interviewed which was actually in regards of his hearing the piano, not his singing. I think the fans picked up on that and thats when the story of pitch perfect singing started. I mean, we've heard many singers who sings good when live and many don't realize they are sometimes off pitch but we rarely hear people call them pitch perfect. I've heard Dimash singing without those pitch corrections or auto tune during his live concerts and I agree his voice is not always perfect even to the ear but I dare say that he is one of the best out there.
@@wingsofpegasus Rick Beato does a few vids {search Rick Beato son perfect pitch on here} in which he shows that his son has what he calls perfect pitch, being able to hear a note or run of notes on a piano and know what note he started on and the progression, I'm not sure if its necessarily being able to repeat that note perfectly, but perhaps to hear a song on the radio and know what key it is in.
Dimash no necesita auto tune;es el auto tune el que necesita a Dimash;ya está bien hacer vídeos así para ganar visualizaciones😣😣😣😣.
A fantastic series you've come up with, Fil. Love the channel.
Fil, I don't tune in, automatically (you know, auto-tune), to your posts, since I'm not a musician, though I am filled with respect at your deeply knowledgeable and intelligent commentaries, as well as the way you make it really relatable for all of us. Thank you, from Indiana, USA!
Great analysis. I remain a Dimash fan because you can see how much he has improved his techniques with time and produced some highly emotional performances. As you say it is a shame for the artist and the audience online when producers step in and try to enhance the recording we see in this way. Also most noticable in some of the junior competitions viewable online too. Thanks, John
What an informative lesson. Thanks for the education. I've learned so much from you. Love your channel!
Dimash has an incredible range
Keep looking into him, maybe watch the vocal teachers reviewing his videos
@@Spo-Dee-O-Dee wtf are you talking about? do you know anything about singing? watch vocal coach reactions to him. its not all about range. and you should listen to "Ave Maria" or "Sinful Passion" by him.
If the intervals between notes are consistent, it will still sound good to the ears even if it isn't technically right on the modern standard for the notes. That's how an orchestra can tune to match the piano (which may or may not be perfectly in tune) and sound wonderful even if the whole orchestra is now a bit off from the objective standard. This is why the second Dimash sample still sounds good.
Dimash's natural voice, did sound at times a little bit sharp, so I could understand why they would want to pitch correct some notes, but I agree, to blanket autotune a naturally good voice is never a good mastering decision. It's bad for the artist, and for the consumer. It sounds terrible and not at all natural.
So interesting, as always btw, when in doubt I just switch to your channel to get your expertise about a performance, and thank you so much ! Just wondering whether it could be possible to compare with Balavoine version, it's old therefore, I hope, untouched neither with autotune, nor any pitch correction ? Wishing you all the best and thank you again for your precious work !
Димаш доносит песню до сердце 💖