FJ vs TJ vs TP vs FP: Which One Are You? Find Out with Susan Storm of Psychology Junkie
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- Susan and I talk about the differences and similarities of the TJ (ENTJ ESTJ INTJ ISTJ), FJ (ENFJ, ESFJ, INFJ, ISFJ), FP (INFP, ISFP, ENFP, ESFP), TP (INTP, ISTP, ESTP, ENTP) types at a glance.
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Hi there! I'm Joyce, a certified MBTI® Master Practitioner, Enneagram Coach, Jungian Typology Expert, Master NLP Practitioner, and Gallup® CliftonStrengths Coach.
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This was great! Personally, I'd love to see a part two where the differences and confusions between [TJs and FPs] and [TPs and FJs] are compared and contrasted intentionally as well, bc i think it can be easy to mistype between those sets, since they have the same functions, but in different order. It would be helpful to see some comparisons that would make the distinction when a person technically has both Fe and Ti in his front function stack, for example, bc in that case an N heavy ISTP might be hard to distinguish from an INFJ, especially if gender expectations and cultural conditioning comes into play (male INFJ or female ISTP).
Thanks for this!
Very interesting overview with a lot of good examples. Thanks!
Indeed, Ti is like slowing down movement. Nothing slows me (INTP) down like thinking for it's own sake and it's sooo relaxing. If feels like floating in water. Just give me something to analyse. Then 2 hours feel like 10 minutes.
The impatience that the TJ's (and to a degree the FJ's) for that matter is what I think we have when the terrain falls into the territory of our second function. For me that is Ne and when a topic is more an Ne topic, like something out of the box/creative/artistic ideation then I loose my calm energy instantly and feel inspired, mentally hyped, talkactive etc. I then easily feel too impatient to read or watch info about the topic, but rather I want to instantly play with it and create someting with it. It does not matter what, just something. SUddenly there is no perfectionistic Ti thinking, but (mostly) creative Ne thinking which does not seek an ideal and thus does not slow down. It just seeks something cool or inspiring to create. Is it not perfect? No worry, I can fix that another time if I feel inspired.
The STPs are likely the same, but then with physical stuff. They instnatly jump in, without instructions and uusally somehow land on their feet because the extraverted functions can easily adapt like that.
I think everyone has these slow down/speed up movements in themselves related to their introverted or extraverted functions. So just getting into slow or active mode can likely be done by stimulating yourself by a topic that will trigger either your introverted or extraverted functions like that
EDIT:
Also, I thought it is important to add that whereas the FPs may have the image of being most into the artistic , I find this to be mostly true when the artistic thing they are doing is highly related to the personal or human aspect aspect or the self. For example, if they write a lyric that is person and about their feelings, then it has a higher chance that is an Fi. At least, it makes sense that Fi wants to express their own feelings. However, artistic fields do not just involve the human aspects, but also the technological aspects. For example, an instrument is a technical part that could be used in the artistic field and similarly is the production and to a degree the composition of music itself quite technical in nature aside from artistic.
If you go to a music production forum, they're 95% guys, which are to a lower degree feelers and more thinkers on average, and not females (more often feelers). Females on the other hand usually like the most human related aspects about arts like singing, performing (espressing self), writing lyrics (words) about humans or feelings.
Of course not all women are feelers and men thinkers, but if these things were all more F, then we would likely see disproportionally a higher amount of women in these fields.
I only analyze things i have interest in, i usually i forgot or don't remember things most of the time. I know i am an IP in this personality system. Isfp or infp. But also according to Miss Susan Storm "'authenticity'' is what IFP holds and not a social chameleons. I think social values weigh more and often just a weakness so ''autenticity'' is a way not to be misinterpreted and be clear with intentions. Imagine trying to navigate everyones feelings at the same time. You will definitely hurt one no matter what, with different values each people hold and they wont tell you that you hurt them and you will be so regretfull after. Honestly, you are actually very aware and customized your personality based on how they react
@@hanjesse31 I do not know how to respond to your reply as I do not understand what you explained relates to what I've said. I do not understand if you disagree with something I've said or not for example or try to add something new or just felt inspired to type that or anything else?
@@PowerRedBullTypology sorry, I have no contentions with what you said above, I try to parallel the two Introverted functions at first which kind of similar to what you said already... but was watching the video as i wrote and end up writing this down instead. ''introverted judging functions'' might be slowing down on things it is trying process since it needs a lot of backtracking and cutting up ''noises'' from data that comes up to see its almost purest form.. that is probably why you dont notice time flies. And Extroverted functions is your left foot on the gutter
Thank you for the interesting comparison of groups.😀
Excellent insights. So interesting
Good to see you two chatting it up 👌 Hope all is well ladies!
Sean
Hey, Sean!! It's been a hot while. Hope life has been good to you 🙂
I know I’m a TJ because I am interested in MBTI to understand myself better so I can be more efficient about doing things that will work best for me to reach my goals
Joyce loves that pen so much, she had to show it to us
I went into this thinking I would be confused by the end because I so often feel confused. You both did a great job of explaining the differences. I am definitely FP, I don't consider myself as someone who marches to the beat of their own drum though. I do really believe in giving everyone autonomy, including that really made it clear for me.
My male version of Fe does not focus on the emotional states of other males in any proactive, contributional way (such as females do for males, and for each other). This is largely what we look to females to help us with. I see male Fe in cultural values, such as the wide array of values contained in cultural history museums.
That is a great point regarding how Fe can look different in males versus females.
Interesting.. so it is because Fe in males doesn't really have any connection with any fundamental biological difference with 2 genders but reflection of what Fe values for men in each society holds....
I would be curious why you (m2pozad) do not focus on the emotional states of other males in any proactive, contributional way? Is that societal/cultural as Hanjesse suggests? If you see another male in emotional distress, do the same urges not get activated as you might feel when women are in distress ?
@@PowerRedBullTypology Allow me to make it easy on myself by pulling from Psychology Today- " Men typically give instrumental support-that is, they try to provide specific advice as to how to fix a problem. Women, on the other hand, give more emotional support, that is, empathy and sympathy, and very often that is the kind of support they want for themselves. "
@@m2pozad I do know that this often seems to be the case that men do that one thing and women do that other thing. However, what I was curious about is how you, if you're an Fe dom, feel about that difference, as typically fe wants to give emotional rather than instrumental advice? Instrumental advice seems much closer to Te or even Ti?
Do you do that becuase you think it fits the nrom to do that, or does it have another reason?
Joyce you're lookin' too cute right there. Love the earrings and the hair.
From an ISFP.
Where the TJ indeed feel responsible to fix the organization and the FJ that feels responsible to fix the mood in general, the P types have the same sort of phenomenon going but their own variation of it. Where the TJ's and FJ's *pro-actively* will start to order things, the TP's and FP's will usually actively *react* as the counter weight to whatever they see wrong with any group control. They are a bit like the opposition in politics. They are not in control and neither actively take control, but by reacting they in a way take control by "controlling" the leadership by "rebelling" against it. The Fi's will do this by feeling the responsibility to stand up against types of (group) morals they see as bad and the Ti's will do that by standing up and pointing what does not make sense about the current system of control. Usually it's the EPs that are most active doing these things, but if they do not do it, then the IP might feel more obligated to do that (or they will just ignore the rules as a small scale protest).
I think that some of the ways in which TJs are described here also applies to xSFPs, especially ESFPs, with their emphasis on Se + Te. While xNFPs might be less inclined to have this mentality because of the combination of Ne + Te, I can see any Te user (even those with it in the second half of their function stack) being oriented towards the improvement of systems and people
This is an informative presentation. It really deepens my understanding of judging function groupings to identify people's preferences. I think everyone has varying degrees of competency in the styles of each quadrant. Kind of like a character statistics inside of a video game.
For example, I would deem my usage of TP judging the highest as an INTP, 9 or 10 out of 10. I would perhaps rate TJ quadrant a 6 or 7 out of 10, up to 8 or 9 if it's something I have a deep understanding in. Would rate FJ 3 or 4 out of 10, however, others have noted it comes out more competently than I would appraise myself.
I would rate my proficiency at applying FP judging as 0 out of 10. It is always a negative or chaotic usage to understand my own emotions. This makes a lot of sense in context of other personality theories. It is tough even if I try to think (or in my case internally feel) like that.
This a little out there, but I have a belief your secondary/tertiary grouping preferences outside of your native judging preference paints a picture of your upbringing and personality development, do you prefer your weaker judging function or the opposing role. Perhaps colored a bit by my own life experiences, I find it hard to believe most people would be incredibly strong at their complete opposing judging grouping until super late in life: i.e. TP > FP, FJ > TJ
I've never thought too hard about why i my value is what it is. I just accept it is and am shocked when some things are important! Lol
That ENFP comment about being cheeful hit hard. Someone on Reddit recently asked me how I can be so bubbly when meeting people as an INFP since I don't trust them enough to show my true motions. I answered honestly, "Happy to meet someone is not a vulnerable emotion." That's the real reason you won't ever know.
Excellent video, as always! Hmm, social chameleonising, yep, that's shady in my book! If they do it to others thry must be doing it to me, and i really want people to just be themselves, well, most of the time! 😊
If people think you are stupid/ugly/whatever else negative.. do you want them all to tell that to you?
@PowerRedBull That's not a concern I really have to be honest. Is it for you? But, yes, honestly, I have a few close, trusted friends, which is enough for me, so I'd rather know if that were actually the case so we can all just steer clear...
Every time I hear Te described it just sounds so foreign to me. I know people with dominant Te exist, but it just seems so other from how I view the world and naturally operate (or don’t) within it.
I've been typed twice as FJ (INFJ) & TP (ISTP), and i kind of find myself familiar with both as they share the same cognitive functions but stacking are different. Is that possible that my brain capacity would take both types in a balanced way or its not possible? and if not how would i confirm which i would lean more towards
As we grow and mature the true self will come out. I am an ENFJ but, my mind is Istp, Infp and estj too. 4 sides of the mind.
22:28 “feeling perceivers need to feel like they are 100% being real with themselves and their expression. they’re less likely to be social chameleons. … that seems like a lack of integrity to them to kind of shift who you are depending on who you’re around in a very obvious way. … for feeling perceivers, it’s very important that they’re aligned with their core self at all times.”
well said, BUT-a huge exception to this is social 9s. FPs comprise a very large percentage of 9s/ tritypes including 9. 9s very much WILL push down their own wants, needs, and self expression to match what the other wants/ how the other is behaving or what the group wants/ how the group is behaving, even to the point of being blind to their own desires and feelings. and social nines in particular are the kings and queens of chameleoning, because it’s so intrinsic to their natural way of operating that they don’t even realize they’re doing it until it’s pointed out to them. for them, chameleoning IS part of their core self-if you try to ask them NOT to do it, they just can’t.
(the explanation that joyce gave as a follow up to what susan said here was spot-on, however. i just wanted to expand on her explanation.)
24:26 “[feeling perceivers] are highly attuned to other people’s motivations. and sometimes they can pick up on other people’s motivations before those people even know their own motivations. they are constantly thinking, ‘…why do i feel this way, why do i want this particular thing, why am i drawn to this particular lifestyle, why do i want to express myself in a certain way?’ and because they’re constantly asking these questions to themselves about why they feel certain ways about particular things, because they’re so attuned to that, they can also notice other people’s patterns of motivations and why other people do what they do. they’re very quick to pick up on ulterior motives and manipulation and things like that.”
first of all, what she’s describing here is Ni, not Fi. Ni is called “perspectives” by personality hacker for a reason. THAT is the function that, when placed high in a user’s stack, provides the user with the ability to easily pick up on “patterns of motivations and why other people do what they do,” and on “ulterior motives and manipulation and things like that.” and Fi does not ask “why,” because it doesn’t care about why. Fi knows what it likes and what it values and who it is, and it knows these things so strongly that it doesn’t ask “why.” as soon as you’re assessing “why,” you’re using a different function to do so. and it can be very hard for FPs (high Fi users) to tell you why they like or value something, because it doesn’t usually even occur to them to wonder why in the first place.
You make great arguments. I agree with you.
I think Fi and Ni can look similar at times. The difference could be motivations versus intentions.
For instance, I often have Fi users messaging me after I post a video saying, "You look like you didn't like the guest," and etc, where they are inferring into my emotions, when I am really not feeling that way at all. You could see that as them trying to infer into my motivations. They are trying to guess into what I am feeling.
My hypothesis is that Fi users have many unspoken feelings and emotional states. So they try to guess other's true inner states, because there could be so much unspoken complexity in the other person. For instance, I could see an INFP using their Ne to guess into what I might be feeling.
Now, a Ni user could also try to guess the why behind actions and the intention behind them, which can look similar, but is coming from a different place.
This is why learning type is so confusing.😅
@@JoyceMeng22 I agree this is very much what Fi users often try to do; Which seems guessing the feelings and especially deeper (hidden) motivations of others. What in a way seems one of the most paradoxal seeming qualities to me about Fi is that though is that while at the same time there seems to be a big focus on either getting to know their true selves and getting to know the true (deep) motivations of others, at the same time it seems they especially seem to struggle doing these things.
I could theorize that this might be caused Fi being so deeply connected to the person itself, that this makes it impossible to see what it really is in a more objective manner, just like the concept of being inside yourself in first person perspective automatically disables you to see yourself as you can not see yourself without mirror.
I also have the impression that not reading the intentions of others well might also be related to not really seeing other people just as totally seperate entities from themselves, but rather in a way see again themselves, their own qualities, their own desires or their own fears in others. So when they read others, in a way it seems they project parts of themselves on others, which then consequently can skew the outcome. Also, I've seen them project their own fears on others or be paranoid when they feel have a bad mood.
Now I think of it, that would make sense as I (Ti dom) do seem to do the opposite, as (of course somewhat hopelessly) try to fight my own subjective experience, like rating both my mood and how rested I am when I wake up so that I know that anyhting I experience that day is likely skewed in either directions because of this in order to avoid to let this influence any sort of clean judgement of anything. There is a clear desire to see both the evaluator of things and the person you are and their experience as 2 seperate entities in your head as much as possible.
Of course like I said it's pretty hopeless to fully fight all such biases, as you might not be aware of all the things that skew you, but at least I always have clear desire to do so in order to evaluate anything with just detached reasoning. If I would come to a different conclusion tomorrow without new informatoin that could explain this, it means this inconsistancy must come from somewhere and I need to figure out where it comes from.
@@JoyceMeng22 I'd be so curious to see you commenting on people you disagree with :p
A new idea just popped into my head..Usually Fi has somewhat of a love/hate relationship with the idea of fitting a type in typology, because often on one hand they recognize things, but on the other hand they often describe that it's not accurate enough to describe everyone, which is a fair good critizism because indeed everyone is unique. So while i'd say it's true that in the end everyone unique, immediately stopping to compare things also stops the increased ability to see things in perspective. If you do not compare a book to other books, you can not really say the book is thick or thin as such things are defined to a degree by comparing the book to other books. If the book is clearly thinner than most other books, then we might say the book is thin. If the story is a horror story, but we reject the notion of such category and do not compare the book to other books, then is the book scary? If it's scary, but not compared to any other book, then do we define that as scary? I mean, even if there is 1 mean dog in the book, could make you think the book is scary. Only with the perspective of knowning enough other books will help you to determine of it's relatively scary compared to other books or not. What is left is that you could say if it gives you scared emotions. However, your emotions may not be the same each day. So now how do you know if the book is scary? it becomes hard to answer it with clarity.
To anyone reading; I'm honestly not sure where I'm going with this, I'm just Ne-reasoning haha.
I disagree that FPs are always asking how does this affect me and line with my values. THis would be true for IFPs but as an ENFP , I'm rarely thinking about that as I'm spending 95% of my time in Ne.
I thought Susan was an INFJ. Maybe she was retyped.
Hahahahha I’ve been into Japanese Anime in like 7th grade, period dramas in hs and my twenties and explored Buddhism in middle school and am focused in on Judeo Christianity in adulthood…..😂😂😂😂 my core values are set and trip wires indeed I don’t even always know my core values but they feel like Universal truths that probably should be Universal truths for others, but my Fi just calls them idiots and yeah screw the group hahaha. I mean if they are good enough they will follow, but carry your own pack. I people please to survive when necessary. Otherwise, if the other person is too toxic I have to use defenses, or I’ll absorb them and fry out faster than an INTJ’s social battery zapping at a 3 hour wedding for a stranger where everyone talks to them. 😂😂😂😂