Minor mistake. In the OW1 *beta*, Symm's Photon Barrier ability gave 75 permanent shield hp on a 10 second cooldown. On *launch*, this was reduced to 25hp on a 1 second cooldown, almost definitely because of the synergy being too powerful with Tracer.
I believe that symmetra should be reworked back into the support category since dps is overinflated and she’s just irrelevant similar to how doomfist being a tank was a positive for his character the same will happen for symmetra
A shielder would also be pretty fun to have, but at the same time, shields are just harder to balance, especially if they increase the hp of heroes. I definitely don't want to see unkillable Tracers or Genjis
@@kingclampz6081 I'm still not exactly sure what direction they would go with her since, as I mentioned, the whole turret heal thing didn't work well for many when it was tested. The only potential thing I can think of is delving more into giving health to teammates ability she had again, since I think it had some potential.
@@RockSkull yeah the biggest problem with her turrets back when she was temporarily back into the support category was that her turrets would stay on a individual and not heal the teammate who had lower hp if they made it to where the turrets always prioritize the lowest hp that would feel better for starters and maybe her secondary fire could instead also heal teammates her teleporter is already a support style ability and so is her ult
Sombra also should be a support, all about preventing dangerous ults and hacking health packs. Replace her virus with a anti-virus which is like the opposite of her base game virus (heals teammates overtime) and allow her hack to be more like anas anti-nade. Reduces incoming healing by 35% while preventing ability use for 2.5 seconds. Hack would last for four seconds. Her emp would be the same, but it give teammates 25% more ult charge. Make it harder to get however by a decent bit
How was it a positive?? They made him even more annoying now, as a consequence of 5v5. As well as dumbing him down and removing the most interesting and fun elements of his kit and playstyle.
Symmetra 2.0 was my favorite iteration of her character. It was a lot of fun to play a "pure strategy" playstyle where most of the moment-to-moment gameplay was spent on strategic building placement & chess-like pathing+positioning. Symm's overall potential back then scaled off of _pure gamesense_ instead of aimskill, which made her a favorite among players who don't like playing aim-intensive characters. Plus it was fun as hell to block stuff with a perfectly-timed photon shield.
As someone who loved the OG Symmetra, I just hate that instead of reworking her abilities into making her an ok option for a support, they just gave up and turned her into a dps. Ofc this version of Sym it's the healthiest she's ever been but still. They just gave up on the idea of supports in overwatch being actual supports and not just healers
@zuckergolf4442 Yeah but now its a requiremenr for supports to heal. Tf2, a game that hevauly inspired Overwatch, has Sniper and Spy alongside Medic as supports. They support their team through ways other than killing. But at this point it's already been edtablished that supports need to heal. If we wanted to make Sym a support we'd need to make her heal.
I blame the DPS and tanks for making every support player a Heal Bot from day one of Overwatch. Not joking, that is all I was ever told to do in comms when picking a support and doing more than healing.
@@mariustan9275 "They support their team through other ways than killing" Spy backstabs people, sniper headshots people. I don't really see how that's supporting other than killing. Even Overwatch has its respective counterparts to those with Sombra and Widow. The game has plenty of supportive heros amongst all roles. Though dealing damage is what's going to win at the end of the day no matter the FPS.
@@Marisa_arts people do not healbot sweetie its just eventually needed for the team to receive some sustain and some flimsy shields or overhealth alone are not gonna do it. do you like, play this game? ever played old overwatch against competent people? i did. support symmetra just the way someone commented, eventually ran short of use. she actually could deal some dmg up close, but wasnt allowed to deal more because she was support, and had her shielding utility to limit her. issue is symmetra was never designed around healing i recall. just hp stack, which has been pretty much killed off in ow2 after what brig did in ow1. back to sym though, her health support was not enough. so if you change her to support you could neuter her damage completely then what. leave her with healing orbs and healing turrets ( when illari and baptiste already exist). then youd just have old symmetra, with even less ways to defend herself and remove any independent plays she could do with her teleporter, as now her damage is neutered , because shes support. this was literally a thing before and it failed miserably. the entitlement of support mains should be studied tbh
I actually really liked applying shields to my teammates. I don't know why, it felt good to see them running around with 25 more hp, potentially saving their lives with that overhealth, especially someone like Tracer or Genji
Same. I feel like a playstyle that revolves around giving your teammates small but additional utility fits Symmetra very well. Much like tidying up the small flaws and weaknesses around the team. I really hope they bring back the shield generator or some concept of it because we still don't have a shield Support.
It also had a big benefit we only really appreciate today, that being health breakpoints. Some combos that do almost perfectly 250 hp now give the person being attacked a decent chance of surviving.
I actually saw a really cool reimagination of support Symmetra that still gave her a shield-based theme and, personally, I feel like it would be a lot more interesting than Symmetra now. The reimagined kit went something like this: Primary and Secondary Fire - No change Passive - Photon Shields: Allies within a 30m radius of Symmetra have 50% of their health converted into shield HP. This effect lingers for 5 seconds after the ally leaves the effective radius. Ability 1 - Amplify Shields: Enhances the rate at which an ally's shields begin to regenerate. Ability 2 - Teleporter: No changes And I can't remember if they changed her ult or not. But, other than probably adding a cap to the health-to-shield conversion (because, if not, Roadhog would have 375 shields, and that's kind of insane with the global healing passive stack), I feel like this would be pretty balanced and interesting.
I think a cap at 100 to 150 would be fine, though Reaper would have like 150 shields which sounds op asf. Also this does sound really fun. I'm also going to try to replicate this in the workshop
@@waterrr6332 i mean yeah it would be broken thats why they gave up on adding anything similar to it. why do you think hp breakpoints are so important? hanzo was left in the trash before his arrows were buffed to 125 dmg each,so he could one shot. and getting nerfs for low dmg potential or low mobility as a drawback to balance it out just because symm now would be able to mess up all the games breakpoints... on a mechanic that literally anyone can make use of....yeah no hell illaris whole turret healing theme works because shes just a long range hitscan dps. she would feel so bad to play if she was just melee attack beam+ slow orb too
@@polar6066 It's not adding any health. That shit would stupidly op. It's like converting health to shields. Like Soldier has 250 hp and the shield health thing the op suggested would make Soldier have 125 health and 125 shields. A flat out health increase sounds outrageous and game breaking. Tracer with more than 200 hp is something I don't want in my games. Also she might need massive buffs to her weapon if they were to change to support
it really is, and i wish i could confidently say i’d actually want that in the game…but imagine what team chat would look like, when you only have one healer supporting the team 🫣
@@QT_Jeanne ana exists. and it would still not be enough since if said healer dies, then the team is done for. because there wont be another healer to back up
@@polar6066 That’s… an ability, which lasts seconds. I’m talking about something like a passive ability for Symmetra that automatically and permanently increases healing of the second healer to compensate. And how can you say that when the game literally has one tank? it doesn’t matter if second healer died or not, it’s up to the players for strategies
As a masters sym main, I think she’s really fun and actually in a good spot rn but most people don’t know how to actually play her. Sym’s strongest play is tp-bombing (teleporting u plus ur turrets all at once behind the enemies) but for some reason most people that play sym don’t do it. It’s really ez to catch players off guard with this and the kill potential is really fast (place tp and instantly charge secondary fire so that when you tp you can full charge orb the person all 3 turrets are targeting). I almost always get at least one kill with it and it’s not difficult to get multiple and if that play doesn’t work out just instantly tp back to saftey. People also don’t utilize sym’s tp within fights and just think it can only be used to tp you team past a choke. For example if you are beaming the enemy tank and your tank doesn’t have a shield you can place tp so that you can keep tp-ing between opposite angles so that the enemy tank is forced to keep turning to shoot you or just shoot the tp letting you basically get to full charge for free. I think people try playing sym like a poke character when they should play her like a pseudo dive character (kinda like echo).
I personally think syms teleporter should be permanent like most other "player builds" in the game. It just feels awkward to have it behave more like soldiers healing can or bob instead of like other turrets.
nah i heavily disagree with this. it sounds better on paper but in practice a temporary tp is way more useful in the fast paced nature of ow2. infinite tp was useful in some cases, but it was really hard to use in a teamfight because the cooldown would only start going down after destroying the tp. when it’s temporary however the cooldown goes down the moment it’s placed down so you end up being able to use it much more often and take more risks with it and use it more aggressively infinite tp had some use in overwatch 1 especially for stuff like 2cp defense etc (although i still think temporary tp would’ve been better even in ow1) but for ow2 i think temporary tp is just better in every way
Symmetra’s Evolution: Initially a support hero, she underwent multiple reworks, including changes to her abilities and eventually moving to the DPS role. Original Kit: Her early abilities included a locking beam, photon shield, and turrets that needed manual placement. Reworks: Over the years, her abilities like photon barrier and shield generator were introduced and adjusted for more utility. Current DPS Symmetra: Her kit is now more focused on damage, with a playstyle that thrives in specific map situations. Balance History: Symmetra has undergone various buffs and nerfs but retains niche usage.
I feel like after removing characters that provide armor and shield health there is a hole that needs to be filled in the support role for those things.
Symmetra was my first main in overwatch. Ive played through all three versions and as such have put way too much time into her. My favorite version of Symm was 2.0 aka her first rework. They took everything about 1.0 and made it better. Unfortunately she still wasnt good balance wise. Being a support without healing is a huge problem. Often times you ran into the issue of, do we lose a second healer or a second damage. In my opinion symm leaned more towards damage but you still had to sacrifice an actual damage hero if you slotted her in there. On top of that her kit still had some major handicaps from her first version. The old piercing orbs were the slowest projectile in the game by far, meaning that she was extremely unreliable at range. This on top of them taking a full 3s to charge! Her old turrets required you to be near a surface to place and casting the ability also inflicted a self slow, making it a detriment to use these mid combat. Instead of addressing these pain points. Symmetra went without a SINGLE balance change up until her next rework as you said. The 3.0 rework was very drastic. While my grievances with turrets and the orbs were remedied. The leniency of old symm was lost with her new beam, with it no longer being autolock (but it still has the charge requirement from the autolock version.) Photon barrier which gave her some much needed self defense also got the boot. And while i initially really liked the new teleporter, nowadays i feel like its a ball and chain that prevents symm from being balanced as a proper damage dealer. In theory how can you buff her survivability or consistensy when she has the capacity to relocate her whole team at once. This ability is the sole reason as to pick this hero. As other damage heroes (and other roles) either have more consistent dps, better staying power in the frontline, or better ranged capabilities. In regards to overwatch 2 its obvious that they have no idea what to do with her. She keeps getting random buffs and nerfs with most of the changes missing the mark. The shield siphon and revealing turrets were the wackiest to me. Ive made numerous rework concepts for this hero. I would like her to go back to support but in theory she could work in any role, yes even tank. I personally think support would be more simple given her focus on utility as well as acknowledging her origins. I do believe that healing could be implemented in her kit. Either by a return of the orignal photon shields or healing turrets. Granted those turrets would need some logic instead of the auto zapping turrets from that experimental. I aplogize for the essay. Despite not really playing overwatch anymore im still very passionate about this hero! Thanks for the vid!
most of your suggested changes suck though lol and their vision is mostly related to how shes used in pro play, not your questionable workshop ideas yellow.
also so sorry if i sound rude but im kinda tired of many sym players saying hou have no idea wth youre talking about yet NOBODY wants to straight up say it. its ok to not be a good symmetra player, or to prefer other playstyles roles, but its not ok to pretend youre in some kind of dev chair and go out your way on saying what symmetras real hero direction is. when youre not even that good with her lol. this goes for anyone who insists on ideas like tank or support symm tbqh, most if not all ppl who defend this idea are a)horrible at symmetra/healer one trick b)actually wants symmetra to be nerfed/neuter her dmg, despite her.... neutering her dmg just making her worse, because that was already the case with 2.0. i think ive only met ONE person whos decent enough to symmetra to question her role sometimes, but so many of them are just moira and mercy one tricks who want the world to revolve around them apparently and shove her to a support role with neutered damage (literally came across with someone who suggested symmetra to have a 55 DMG orb that still took one full second to charge and was 2 times slower. but everyone celebrated it, because symmetra.... gave shields. and they were all moira and mercy mains. lmao??? what is this????
@@polar6066 Not that it should matter but I have hit masters playing symm pre and post role queue. Though anyone of any skill should be allowed to express opinions on their favorite heroes. Most of my rework concepts for symm do take her out of the damage role which in turn would lower her damage. Another reason for balancing her that way is due to symm originally being a lenient character skill wise in the support class. Most of the comments I've received from my concepts were in favor of said concepts. I never claimed to be a game dev, but I still stand by those reworks. Obviously without testing on a large scale we will never know how they'd play in game. My main gripe with symm is how the dev team had 0 regards for her original player base in regards to how drastic the rework was. It's especially apparent if you compare symms 3.0 rework with some modern reworks like Sombra and hog. I still stand by my statement that symm 2.0 could have worked if the devs actually tried. I also think 3.0 is a failure but when compared to 2.0 she does do better stats wise. I suppose it is better to be played on a select few maps for a few minutes instead of not being played at all. I do understand that there are many who enjoy symms current state but I feel that 3.0 should have been a new hero so as to not remove one that many people loved.
The problem with buffing Symm 2.0 was that she was still a support The buffs she needed were from a damage dealing perspective. But buffing something like her old secondary fire to behave more like it does today but keeping the piercing around? That'd be too much damage potential for a support. Those old orbs were real good utility, they just had low damage per second. And her old noodle beam definitely did not need buffs. It was the easiest weapon to use by far, so making it good at dealing damage would have been horrible for the game. Especially with the barrier she had and potential 75 extra health? If Symm 2.0 were ever a meta character it would have been horrendous, she very easily could have been made a total degenerate character with number buffs. Her turrets were just about the only thing they could have buffed to be more like now without it getting out of hand, and I think they realized that given they never buffed the character at that time.
@polar6066 I think that characters should be balanced around how the majority of the playerbase play them, not by whatever pros are doing. We saw what happens when you try to add characters to balance or change pro metas. That would be launch Brigitte.
If i were to say anything, Support Sym was actually something i tried to main back in the day and nowadays i rarely play her because she feels weird as a DPS. If i were to rework her i would do the following: SYMMETRA Passive: Photon charge - New passive ability for symmetra that automatically charges up to a maximum amount of shields she can give to her teammates or use for building utility items. However, the shields received are a maximum amount divided for each role (Tank = 150, Damage = 70, Support = 50). - If the charge is empty, she will convert 0.5x of the same amount on their team's health instead. Shields from an empty charge decay faster. - Photon charge shields decay after ?? seconds, Amplifier temporarily removes the decay until cooldown. Photon projector - Primary fire no longer amps up, but will instead be used to make Photon Charge regenerate faster. - Primary fire now locks on to targets, including their own team. - Primary fire will give shields to teammates, if Photon Charge is depleted it will convert their health instead. - Primary fire will heal teammates by a small amount, if photon charge is depleted it will heal more rapidly. - Primary fire beam now resembles 3 beams intersecting (kind of like Overwatch 1, but also not). - Secondary fire amps up based on charge depletion Photon Sentry - Unchanged. Regenerates photon charge faster when dealing damage. Photon amplifier (Replaces the old teleporter on default RB) - Allows symmetra to amplify shield regeneration for a short amount of time. Also affects shield characters and players who have received shields from symmetra. Photon replicator - Swap to Symmetra's hand with D-pad Right to allow you to build static items using some of her Photon Charge. Photon teleporter - Unchanged. Cost 10% of Photon Charge to deploy. Place with RT, cancel with LT, config is RB as current. Photon generator - Places down a shield generator that gives the team 50 extra shields in a certain AOE until it is destroyed. Cost 30% of Photon Charge. Place with RT, cancel with LT, config is LB. Can be placed on any surface. Ultimate: Photon barrier - Unchanged Her primary heals slow until you run out of charge and now helps with the addition of her sentries to regen her total charge faster. Her secondary is her go to damage while she focuses on utility again, this is what i wish Blizzard would have done ages ago.
Symmetra 1.0 had the highest win rate at 68% overall, but surprisingly a similar win rate in high elo. How was this possible? Increasing Max HP was wildly OP at a time when boosted healing was not a thing. The two highest primary healing was mercy (50 HP/S) and lucio (amped at around 40 per second AOE with only non visual limits, however his speed boost at the time was 120% which made it the better amp). Her teleporter unlike original mercy resurrection made it a pseudo secondary objective, splitting enemy attention at a time when communication was new. Her homing primary fire, when weaker (30, 60 & 120 per second at slower progression rates) made it so that if you did not deal with her early, she would mop the enemy team (especially if they were fragile). Finally, her defence on chokes were massive, as her 120 damage orbs were the only piercing projectile in the game, meaning they could go through a Reinhardt barrier, which was a go to tank, damaging both his shield and himself. Symmetra 1.0 was one of the best defensive support heroes. Symmetra 2.0 was similar however, the barrier was able to protect her and her team as an offensive pushing barrier or a defensive barrier against both projectile and hits can damage heroes. This had similar effect to her Max hp barrier, except it was kite-able so it had a counter. Her shield generator was a massive buff as if the enemy team did not react to the generator, it was favour her team. This was also at a time where Torb could throw armour packs (75 stacking armour points) and brig could throw armour healing (150 HP including 75 stacking armour points), making someone like tracer have 150HP/75shields/150armour (375 total HP). The previous version of symmetra, 3.0 before OW2 is very different. Her orb was for a short brief of time dealing a massive 140 non pericing damage which was a tracer killer, so it was reverted to 120. It was slower than current orb. She also had lots of tweaks to her non homing straight beam, and had teleporter tweaks, sometimes temporary sometimes permanent. Her ultimate was turned into a wall, which was arguably her weakest change as again, it's very kite-able, is able to be waited on at most times and can be destroyed by an EMP, or rare damage such as Bastion or roadhog whole hog. Symmetra state has mostly been: fixed damage with a rewarding counter of timing on her primary fire, a poking and zoning secondary and some tricky teleporting and complimentary turret objectives. Because of her design she'll never have a feeling of being an easy threat. No one shots, no true immediate escape (unless the teleporter is already down), just an average workhorse hero that is near impossible to catch up with the best heroes of the meta... Unless she's up against 3-5 counters, she won't do as well as many other damage heroes.
i js think it’s hilarious that before sym was moved to the dps role they stated in a redit ama that they would NEVER make healing turrents since they felt they didn’t fit with the fast pace of the game… just to add illari’s healing pylon 5 years later in ow2 which is arguably much faster paced than ow1 ever was
Miss symetra's og weapon, I know the removed the lock on because people who died to her said the lack of aim did not take skill, but het shield timing and having to learn to play both avoiding attacks and in range of your weapon exposed her alot to where you were going to die if you did not know how to use her. Her previous orbs would have helped against the horrible bunker style of gameplay
Fr like if Symm got close enough to actually lock on for like 4 seconds, they deserve to get cooked. She was the perfect character for humbling people. 😭
Honestly something that would be really cool is having photon barrier and turret bound to the same ability with primary sending out a turret that can also damage a bit while projecting until set up. And barrier being used with secondary so she can have options. And for TP and Shield gen being bound similarly with shield gen giving 25-50 hp for as 8 seconds letting her be more active for a team fight depending on the situation. Keeping ult as is. She already has the files for them and it would be awesome to have another hero with changing abilities like Ram.
6:49 Personally, I don't think a support hero who doesn't heal would work in 5v5, or 6v6 for that matter. We've seen a similar design with early Lifeweaver and he's probably the worst performing hero on launch, where he provided minimal healing, easy access to highgrounds and solo death prevention with life grip (so utility). Not to mention having a hero like that places too much pressure on the other support in the team who will now be forced to play like a healbot, instead of looking for opportunities to make plays (which is kinda unfair imo?). I think a workaround would be to make DPS heroes with a larger focus on utility rather than on raw damage output. We already have Mei in the game, who can slow enemies with her primary, break LOS with cooldowns and her ice wall has a ton of interesting interactions with enemy abilities that is hella rewarding to master (e.g breaking roadhog hook/ junkrat trap) and I'd be happy to see more where that came from.
We could just make her an off-support and make it so she can heal, but make it not her focus. I agree as a support main while having a support that doesn't heal is a really cool idea it would place too much pressure on the other guy to heal the entire match. This would require either Sym healing or make her utility powerful enough to make up for not healing, which could easily tip into being OP.
In my 200 hours of experience with her, the most among all other heroes, Symm has some fairly notable weaknesses, that can make playing her feel pretty laborious and unfun even if she's technically viable. Reliance on Orbs. Beam has a short range, so any fight beyond it requires you use orbs. But orbs are both slow to charge, and move, for a DPS that's not even good, around 90 per second (Mercy's blaster has 100dps by the way). So any fight against pokey heroes is already hard unless you can charge beam off tank then TP in. And it must be Tank. Other squishies are either too fast, or too deadly to give you beam charge. So, even in some short-range fights where you'd expect to use beam, you still have to rely orbs because you just can't get beyond lvl1 charge. Which can mean losing, as pretty much ever other squishy has better DPS than Symm's orbs and she has no immediate escape (TP needs time to set up). You need at least one turret on your target to be able to threaten them. Turrets are Bad. Low HP, low DPS, looong cooldown of 10s. It often doesn't matter if set them up in a specific formation, because a lick of damage and put those 10 seconds to waste. Sometimes the fight just doesn't happen around turrets, and they sit on a flank route doing nothing. It gets worse because you rely on nearby turrets to help you get competitive DPS compared to other squishies. But their cast time, set-up animation and ability to be destroyed in-flight prevent you from using them dynamically. You can't engage with them at all. But defensive turret placement is predictable and highly vulnerable to AoE damage. Or just quick flicks with good awareness. I desperately want them to get a durability buff. Or maybe just more turrets. Or a reduced cooldown. An overhaul, preferably. Something. I want to be able to use my turrets on the turret hero. Unfavourable Niche. One of the best things Symm can do is melt Tanks. Except, Tank-busters are pretty unfun, and Tanks recently got notable buffs. So her prime targets all just got more durable and more deadly. Since Symm doesn't have self sustain (the healing from beam is barely active for 10 seconds every 10 minutes, and doesn't even heal enough to change the outcome of a fight), she forces Tanks into a DPS check where winning is determined by if Symm gets enough team resources to overcome her fragility. And even then, if the target Tank gets enough healing or has good cooldowns, you have to back off or get destroyed.
Yess, when I play her I realize how fragile I am and ponder if I should just pick bastion or something (the better tank buster imo) I think a reasonable change would be giving her a 10 second decay on her beam (just like ow1) and a turret dmg buff, even a 120 dmg orb damage if were feeling confident
literally this! This is what they need, an actual Symm main. Not ppl with input that doesn't actually address her playability, usefulness, shortcomings and most importatly fun factor. When I started in OW1 I mained Symm and they just kept shifting her until they moved her to DPS, I don't DPS though so I have been forced to stay on Support. If they brought her back to DPS or addressed her mishandling I'd go back. What's insane is that even though I main two or three other supports now Symm is still my most played by A LOT just bc of how many hours I logged in as her when I used to main her
Reduced turret damage, add slow effect to turrets that can stack with more turrets. Add her ability to give shields and make it a flat 100 shield that is transferred from person to person like zen orb. Ult is fine, teleporter is fine.
Blizzard removed and worked any and all support abilities. The game has tank, dps, and healer roles. People hated sym becuase she couldn't heal, ignoring her support benefits.
Well, something else that was a major problem that’s overlooked is the fact that health now regenerates for characters when an overwatch 1 only mercy regenerated health passively for herself so the shields could have been useful as a semi health buffer
I think she was a lot more unique as a support, Currently she is just torb with a beam attack unstead of a fully unique character, I do think her ult is better now as her teleport being a normal ability has let her keep up with the pace of the game
If I were to make her a support, I’d allow her beam to heal (like how Ana and Juno can heal and damage with their guns.) I wouldn’t change anything else besides giving TP more range and a Qol UI change. This way she’d be kind of a lifeweaver, Moira, Illari combo
If she was given a healing beam, I think I'd prefer it be a mode change with the mouse wheel, like mercy and torbjorn. Though since it'd just be the beam that changes, and not the whole weapon, I think the mode swap should be instant
My problem with DPS!Sym is that it doesn't fit her lore at all, but I played a lot of her in every state and I do enjoy most of the changes to her kit. If I was reworking her, I'd want to try her as Support again with these changes: Passive; Light Into Being. Shields provided by Sym decay at 5/s, but heal at 15/s. Max 75 shield provided to a single hero, though individual limits from distinct sources would be good too. Primary fire has soft-lock on similar to Moira's, and can lock onto allies to provide shields; secondary fire's orbs can hit allies and provide shields in doing so. Damage is reduced to compensate and the damage:heal ratio can be roughly equal to Ana's primary fire Teleporter acts as current, but can be alt fired to make a shield generator. The cooldown is brought more in line with immortality field, but it is also reduced for the alternate you didn't last use. Sentries act as current, but their damage is reduced by 1/3rd for each sentry locked onto the same target.
I really like that idea but instead i think the secondary fire should be a direct heal instead. Overall this whole giving shield to prevent death and healing through it is insanely creative and i totaly would start to main Symmetra again with a kit like that
@@szunaloneheart3148 thankyou! I get what you mean with the direct heal, but see i think the rate which you apply shield with secondary could be quite high- say she's providing shields at the same rate as Mercy's heal rate, and the shields themselves are providing 15hps, then she's already better at sustaining a character through chip damage. Add to that the shield generator and her target wouldn't notice most small damage. The downside, then, is that since the shield provided is capped, the target is still vulnerable to burst damage. Sym's status then becomes sustain in combat and secondary heal out of combat
I want Symmetra to go back to the support category. I agree that I there should be a support player that doesn’t do actual healing and instead relies on different moves to support players (for example, shields or armor packs, an ability that has temporary heals; like zen). Firstly, the way I would rework Symmetra is instead of having her charged beam attacking enemies, make it so when it’s charged, it actually applies heals to allies (almost like Juno). This gives Symmetra a weakness (she loses the ability to fight long range) but can also be impactful in the back line during fights. Secondly, take away the turrets as a ability and instead make it a killing passive ability for her. What I mean by this is, every time Symmetra wants to summon a turret, she loses a small amount of life force. BUT, her turrets can heal apply 100 hp or so shields or armor packs to allies every 10 second. I believe this is balanced because Symmetra as a support needs to stay alive and support the team and this allows Symmetra to shine a bit when supporting. She’s constantly battling to stay alive and helping teammates stay alive. Also, the turrets can also still have its beam ability to shoot enemies when in sight. Lastly, change her ultimate and make photon barrier an ability and have it with teleport. She can choose which to summon. And make Symmetra’s ultimate like Lifeweaver’s, but instead of health, it applies an immortal field for 10 seconds or so to all surrounding allies. This ultimate may seem overpowering but considering all the other “overpowering” ults. I consider this just an counter ult. (For example, for Ram, Kiriko, Juno, Queen, Junkrat, etc….). This ult will allow Symmetra to be impactful in battles.
We definitely live in a world where a more Support-based Symmetra can exist. Maybe doubling down on the Shields aspect could work, either with a Shield Generator or freely granting it as an Ability. Maybe we can revisit the healing turrets, but only let it passively generate shield health for allies within a certain radius?
People love the say torb is the engineer of overwatch which isn't wrong but sym definitely felt more like engineer with all the utility she provided, and while i agree these both needed a rework, this wasnt the way to go They completely shafted the utility for more damage which isnt necessarily bad but they went way to far with it removing it completely which goes Against their core identitys, and while Torb is doing good its just because he gets so much value from brainless spamming, while sym struggles to do any damage because so many characters are just infinitely better at her at it
I was a support symmetra main back then and i still miss her old flying photon barrier. I still think to this day that her healing option should have been her secondary and the turrets should have some form of different utility. Hell she even could have a barrier-heal back in Overwatch1 where barriers overall were more prominent, which would have given her a very unique support kit imo. Meanwhile I dont play Overwatch2 anymore since all supports are not that fun to me anymore. I want my support Sym back and in all honesty, with the modern support designs she would fit way better in that roster with her more "aggressive playstyle"
I played at the time of "support" symmetra. I always defended the idea that she was actually a dps. But when someone picked a Symmetra making the team have 3 supports, another support would inevitably change to a dps. So a Symmetra team was always lacking in healing. Added that to the fact a sombra (2nd caracter to be releaved after launch) could always go around and break the tp, Symmetra was often a liability that was only used when the team had to defend for 1 minute or so and the tp would come in clutch for overtime respawns
I was thinking I love Symm but I use her a lot against shielding tanks like Rein, sigma, and old Orisa. Maybe they reduce her charge damage to heroes but raise it to shields so she could be a shield busting support, and then maybe her turrets can heal as well like pylon. Plus then she can still have tp still have her ult but maybe one of those passive abilities where she can steal shield health and apply it as a small buff on allies near her. Makes her go great with a go in tank that wants to be right in their face. Also the thing with her turrets shooting while they're flying was perfect they should bring that back
Symm did recieve a change between beta and her release. They nerfed the shield she gives to allies from 75 to 25, and then a month later announced the first rework (which just gave her a new ult to grant 75 shield)
Didn't play OW1, but I like symm as she is now. She needs effort to work effectively since her turrets don't really kill well anymore. She's creative with tele and turrets. She's a very unique experience among all the DPS. I think she can work in most maps but need creativity. Although she can have lots of trouble with fliers like pharah.
My favorite thing ever was to hide on the second point of Volskaya after a team wipe and then teleporting my entire team from the attacking spawn onto point. So stupid, but so fun haha. June 26, 2018 was a terrible day for me as someone who sucks at aiming lmao
I like the idea of shield generator, but on a different character with healing potential as well, just reduce the range and the amount provided by the shield gen.
I wish old Blizzard iterated on ideas more before totally throwing an interesting concept away. Scatter Arrow, Repair Pack overheal, and support Symmetra are all good examples of things that could have worked well if they had been willing to tweak them more, but they just didn't. Symmetra with her current ultimate, gun and teleporter would work great with minimal tweaks if they just swapped out her turrets for a more supportive ability and added some sort of reliable healing, but instead they decided to just lock onto her most annoying ability as the essential thing to keep, while changing every other part of her so significantly.
Lowkey symm feels like an actual balance nightmare she can’t be too strong cause because the way her kit is designed she feels frustrating to play against but whenever she’s not strong she feels almost too weak compared to most other dps heroes she’s stuck between what sombra and orisa are not frustrating enough for people to want her reworked again like with sombra but not boring enough for people to not want to play her like orisa she really feels like she was made a while ago and sadly I think the game just out grew her design philosophy
As a symmetra main from day one while i am nostalgic for old sym it doesn't really have a place in todays overwatch. Unless the game gets a big overhaul non healing supports just wont work. Im also worried bringing back her abilities that gave almost permanent health increases would make her hella annoying in OW2
I think symmetra should have been reworked into the tank category for OW2. If they changed her turrets from a damage beam, so that they each make a small bubble around them that absorbs or eats a percentage of the damage that passes through them, or maybe they reduce the damage of any enemy they are beaming instead of damaging them.
As a Symmetra player, i play her strictly for the turrets and I think that’s what the devs should focus on. I would make the turrets squishier but be able to throw 6 of them like before and even make it so in kills/assist i get a turret restocked. I’d also buff the damage on them a little and nerf primary weapon. I’d keep the Barrier ultimate and teleporter as is!
Basically the kinda concept that Symmetra has should immediately put her in support no questions asked. Her turrets act as a more defensive form of protection and spacial lock down like Mei’s wall that acted as the squishy protected before brig qas released. She centralised in shield health regeneration and barriers for further means of protection and grant independence to her allies. She’s the only character who has team based teleportation which has always been used very supportively in all its forms. Both her weapon fires have always had some type of gimmicky or special function that granted enemy barrier destruction in some way. The only “dps” thing about Symmetra was honestly that she DID a lot of damage however inconsistent it may have been and that she could provide consistent ally sustaining like every other support. A minor set back that could’ve easily changed but for some reason the devs really didn’t want to have Symmetra heal or even have a healthy healing alternative in her kit like some weirdos too stubborn to change what they deemed “didn’t fit” for her which forced her out of the SUPPORT role all of her abilities were designed for. Her current playstyle and direction is a mess. Still played on the same select few maps good for turret lock down and used as a poke based shitty tracer with her teleporter and orbs. She’s no less niche imo than what she’s always been as a character. With features and abilities far too limited and situational for her and their own good. Imo she should be a support. Healing can be added to her and changed look or functionality wise for character design with ease like with shield health regeneration and what not. So many of her abilities should be more stronger or just more universal in function to be supportive. I honestly miss the idea of team teleportation being something Symmetra did often and of course her turrets have and will always be a supportive annoyance non player threat rather than a big damage dealing trap. They could’ve easily made a dps support hybrid out of Symmetra the way they did with Mei but never understood what made Mei always okay as a dps despite her supportive qualities (which is that she could use those supportive tools for herself whilst also still supporting teammates). Plus the type of supporting Symmetra always provided beyond some area lockdown was team teleportation which became obsolete as the game became faster and the limitations of her teleporter weren’t worth the obvious hassle when we’re also no longer forced to play heavy chokepoint like maps. I miss support Symmetra and to me she’s actually the one dps who feels really dated with her kit which is wild given how many times she’s been reworked. Plus her play style and player fantasy DO NOT match in the slightest anymore. I have hope one day they’ll rework her far in the future if not into support then into an ACTUAL dps/support hybrid character. They did such a good job with a quite a few reworks for many characters in the game thus far with some like Sombra who I thought would always be the same yet was proven wrong. Wish this level of treatment and care would be thrown in Symmetra’s way for one in her entire existence as a character.
I think the second version with the moving barrier was the best one. I think the thing that needs to go for something better is the turrets. She was my fav character to play. The DPS version works, but she's so much more work than other dps. I think OW should have doubled down on more utility supports that don't heal instead of reducing support to healer.
The only problem with support sym was people thinking they could get away with not having 3 supports or at least a moira/ana. Like I think changing her role without changing her at all would have been a buff. I remember lots of games where people thought we were fine with only a zen for heals because "we have 2 supports". Old sym should have been given a chance imo. The shield ability was one of the coolest dps/support abilities ever added with the way you had to use it to get close or the high value plays you could get like blocking a pharah ult etc. New sym might be better in a pro environment but is a lot less complex in her playstyle imo.
Tbh i think sym could be a great support if they changed some things like having 2 turrets who can heal and 2 who can dmg (2 separate ability), and the shield she gave but it only give 25hp and can only regenerate once after it got destoyed(another ability) , for her ult the 2 option thing was a good idea either shield generator or wall those changes could help her being more impactfull on the game and increase her utility And for her beam and the ball i would keep the same that we have nowadays but maybe change the amo or dmg
I miss her old shield so much, it really helped her survivability, it was also so annoying seeing blizzard give abilities that could have helped her be given to other heroes
Every day i miss support sym 😢 i really liked that play style and i really hope they add a new hero like her. If they ever add Daehyun (Dva’s mechanic) i hope he’d fill that void for me
What I hate the most about DPS Symmetra(besides making her one when we have a billion DPS and need MORE supports) is how her kit fights itself. She's a squishy short-range DPS but has no self-peel/heal or escape. TP doesn't work for that end because it takes 6 years to build and it might get destroyed before you can come back. Turrets have a long CD but can be easily destroyed...She's a worse Zarya. She should be reworked back into support as a Shield and Utility-based Hero like Zen is a Damage-Focused Support. Some ideas: *Passive:* Gives everyone 25 Shield HP while Sym is in the team. *Primary Fire:* Reduced DMG because she's no longer a DPS. *Secondary Fire:* Lonck-On Beam that heals Shield/Armor HP (Allies will always have at least 25 Barrier from her Passive) *Teleporter:* Works like the new Lifeweaver Petal Platform. Permanent until destroyed or a new one is placed. *Turrets:* Work like Moira's Orbs, can fire the standard Sentry Turret or a Repair Turret (they share a cap so you can have at most 2 of a type and 1 of the other, for example). Repair Turret heals Armor/Shield like *Secondary Fire*. *Ultimate:* No changes. With this kit she'd be a good pair for people with high-healing, since she has low "healing"(limited to 25 HP/s if the target has no Armor/Barrier) but can buy time for the other Support to heal people up. I made this specifically to synergize with Lifeweaver. This would also allow her to work well with Tanks, since most of them have Shield or Armor HP, and the Turret changes let her use them in a defensive manner(healing) when there isn't a good place to put them offensively, like during Attack rounds, where the point is constantly moving.
I miss throwing crockpot lids all the time. (although being able to throw turrets in Sym 3.0 was a legit great upgrade) OW1 team barely knew what to do with her half the time, I think. OW2 dev team is just ignoring her, which may be for the best. (just look at their other patch changes lately)
I started playing ow 2 few months ago and is basically bc of her, is tragic I know, why have I fallen in love with the most hated complicated character in the game: hahaha, but I do my best, I'm already at gold rank with her, wich is a win to me. I learned many tricks with her and I have so much fun
As a symm player since the overwatch 1 beta symm support was way better than dps. Dps symm just feels like a beam bot. Symm support actually had her builder fantasy. I miss it alot and still hold out hope one day symm will return to the support role with her themes and gameplay fully realised
Beta symm has 75 hp with photon shield. Remember this old good times 😉 I think she doesn't need to be reverted. She is in the best state right now. In ow1 she played as DPS. She got help, she became a real DPS with interesting kit, which can be used in aggressive push, as well as in defensive, more supportive stile (900 hours symm)
u know what, they should add damage by explosion to her turrets. Many players counter Symmetra way too easily and way too fast, so the her turrets should actually give dmg when destroyed to at least compensate for her loosing them so easily
I really missed her spawn tp ability that she had back in ow1, but blizzard didn't even put a indicator of where the tp was in spawn leaving dumb players skipping over it. 🙄 I wish it could come back.
I miss her old shield that moved forward and the sphere energy charged shots. Sure you can say they don’t know what to do with her but didn’t the devs say that they wanted this game to lean more into a shooter? More than a moba? She’s so boring to play now. These devs cannot understand that it’s okay if a hero is niche and doesn’t get picked a lot . They have all this mentality that if a hero isn’t reaching 50% win rate or pick rate then they gotta change it. Idk how true that statement is but it’s just my 2 cents. Tldr: support Sym is way more fun than current sym and they alienated the symmetra playerbase
I know this sentiment has already been shared both in the video and in the comments but I feel like saying it one more time couldn't hurt, especially with a relatively hot take like this that I feel like most players (especially new OW2 exclusive players) need to hear; Blizzard absolutely dropped the ball by giving up on Support Sym just because she couldn't heal. Supports are called supports for a reason. Their job should not be exclusively to heal. That's an incredibly narrow mindset and it probably killed a lot of cool/creative character ideas which we'll never know of now early in their development which is beyond disappointing. By giving up on support Sym I think they started a chain reaction that spawned some of the worst balancing decisions to ever come to overwatch and created the toxic idea that generalist heroes are the only good ones and any heroes that do not provide very clear value (specifically on the scoreboard) are trash. If I'm being honest I think they dropped the ball even more when they condensed Offense and Defense into just Damage, but that's a whole extra can of worms I don't have the patience to break down.
Syms utility on Support would have to be beyond useful because it has no make up for the fact that she can't heal because I can see the hate for her as soon as players realize that she can't heal, though I wouldn't mind this. She'd have to have really wacky stuff to be good, like Converting half of everyone's health into Shields, having an ability to make those shields regen faster, make her turrets stick to allies, maybe an ability that protects an Ally from burst damage one time like a one time use block, maybe she could even move Mini health packs around so she synergies with Sombra and possibly have two ults like back then. Maybe Teleporter and Photon Barrier. This sounds really dumb lmao
I swear I’m the only sym player who prefers sym now and think she’s only gotten better after each rework. I’ve always considered her a dps ever since first playing her since sym 2.0.
(Copied from comment under @kingclampz6081) I'd give her two categories of sentries: Ones (3) that work like they currently do, and a single one that shows the physical location of anyone in range (let's say, 5-10 meters as max distance), and in LOS. She can turn her regular sentries to either do dmg, or healing (focusing on the lowest relative hp hero first, gives them a far larger hurtbox). Dealing dmg increases beam lvl like usual, but you can cash in your beam level for a large burst of heals on the team.
I feel like support sym never really got a chance to show if it could have been good compared to dps. With support they just reworked and left it alone until the next rework. They never really buffed thr abilities after the rework. Dps sym got buffs to help
DPS is better in my opinion. I play her a lot and she's borderline OP on certain maps and really bad on others. Very weird hero. Her biggest issue has and will always be how she needs to charge both primary and secondary to do damage.
They need to get off with the turrets, it doesn't fit in the overwatch gameplay, even with torbjön feels clunky. Blizzard could have worked on a lot of gameplay concepts with her as a support but they just gave up and moved her into the DPS role I would like to see something related to giving temporal shields to her allies, I mean some characters already do that in someway (junker queen, life weaver ) She could keep her actual ultimate, it doesn't ever fit too well with the DPS role anyway I never liked how the teleport works with her actual version, I understand it could be useful in some situations, but it's so specific because you can't rely on it since iit s a destructible structure, I prefer a new utility ability, can be a "barrier" but instead of protect form damage, applies a cc or buff with a "switch" playstyle, for example in stance one can apply a slow, in stance 2 apply a speed buff, it could a apply a damage boost or can be switched to a reflective bullets barrier, idk it's just an idea Sorry if I wrote something wrong, I don't speak English XD.
i feel most people who want support symmetra have pretty bad concepts of what supports should be (aka literally suggesting any health stack ability outside a temporary ult) or worse, make her support rely on her turrets and use the worst arguments ever to justify why itd be a good addition. also, support symmetra wasnt used ever in pro play. dps sym is still used, even over many heroes. also the "her ult is support" complaints really weird me out. theres mei,widowmaker over there lol.
@@polar6066 nobody cares about pro play so bad point. They can make it to where her turrets heal and her alt fire also heals and can still keep the teleporter since that’s a support type utility anyways
@@kingclampz6081oh, maybe go suggest this to r/competitiveoverwatch then!! after all the devs are doing amas there lately. im sure everyone will LOVE what you just suggested there!!!
@@kingclampz6081 i think a big chunk of people dont care about your opinion either so that could be an argument by your logic other than that reading your other comments im just SO glad you arent in charge of this game. ow1 got enough dmg from that mindset, and it was still better than yours
Dps symetra ❌
Support symetra ☑
TANK SYMETRA ☑️☑️🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑
@@MistarZtv all 3 roles symmetra ☑☑☑
@@RockSkullPerfect Trimetry!
Um that’s just zarya
How would that even work-
@@brenexlindsay1682imagine Barik from Paladins but Yassified.
Minor mistake. In the OW1 *beta*, Symm's Photon Barrier ability gave 75 permanent shield hp on a 10 second cooldown. On *launch*, this was reduced to 25hp on a 1 second cooldown, almost definitely because of the synergy being too powerful with Tracer.
@@smefgrimstae7845 ah did not know this, thanks for the correction!
I believe that symmetra should be reworked back into the support category since dps is overinflated and she’s just irrelevant similar to how doomfist being a tank was a positive for his character the same will happen for symmetra
A shielder would also be pretty fun to have, but at the same time, shields are just harder to balance, especially if they increase the hp of heroes. I definitely don't want to see unkillable Tracers or Genjis
@@kingclampz6081 I'm still not exactly sure what direction they would go with her since, as I mentioned, the whole turret heal thing didn't work well for many when it was tested. The only potential thing I can think of is delving more into giving health to teammates ability she had again, since I think it had some potential.
@@RockSkull yeah the biggest problem with her turrets back when she was temporarily back into the support category was that her turrets would stay on a individual and not heal the teammate who had lower hp if they made it to where the turrets always prioritize the lowest hp that would feel better for starters and maybe her secondary fire could instead also heal teammates her teleporter is already a support style ability and so is her ult
Sombra also should be a support, all about preventing dangerous ults and hacking health packs. Replace her virus with a anti-virus which is like the opposite of her base game virus (heals teammates overtime) and allow her hack to be more like anas anti-nade. Reduces incoming healing by 35% while preventing ability use for 2.5 seconds. Hack would last for four seconds. Her emp would be the same, but it give teammates 25% more ult charge. Make it harder to get however by a decent bit
How was it a positive?? They made him even more annoying now, as a consequence of 5v5. As well as dumbing him down and removing the most interesting and fun elements of his kit and playstyle.
Symmetra 2.0 was my favorite iteration of her character. It was a lot of fun to play a "pure strategy" playstyle where most of the moment-to-moment gameplay was spent on strategic building placement & chess-like pathing+positioning. Symm's overall potential back then scaled off of _pure gamesense_ instead of aimskill, which made her a favorite among players who don't like playing aim-intensive characters.
Plus it was fun as hell to block stuff with a perfectly-timed photon shield.
As someone who loved the OG Symmetra, I just hate that instead of reworking her abilities into making her an ok option for a support, they just gave up and turned her into a dps. Ofc this version of Sym it's the healthiest she's ever been but still. They just gave up on the idea of supports in overwatch being actual supports and not just healers
Bap, Zen, kiri, illari, Ana, lucio and arguable Juno all have great utility or the ability to do decent damage or even both.
@zuckergolf4442 Yeah but now its a requiremenr for supports to heal. Tf2, a game that hevauly inspired Overwatch, has Sniper and Spy alongside Medic as supports. They support their team through ways other than killing. But at this point it's already been edtablished that supports need to heal. If we wanted to make Sym a support we'd need to make her heal.
I blame the DPS and tanks for making every support player a Heal Bot from day one of Overwatch. Not joking, that is all I was ever told to do in comms when picking a support and doing more than healing.
@@mariustan9275 "They support their team through other ways than killing"
Spy backstabs people, sniper headshots people. I don't really see how that's supporting other than killing. Even Overwatch has its respective counterparts to those with Sombra and Widow.
The game has plenty of supportive heros amongst all roles. Though dealing damage is what's going to win at the end of the day no matter the FPS.
@@Marisa_arts people do not healbot sweetie its just eventually needed for the team to receive some sustain and some flimsy shields or overhealth alone are not gonna do it. do you like, play this game? ever played old overwatch against competent people? i did. support symmetra just the way someone commented, eventually ran short of use. she actually could deal some dmg up close, but wasnt allowed to deal more because she was support, and had her shielding utility to limit her. issue is symmetra was never designed around healing i recall. just hp stack, which has been pretty much killed off in ow2 after what brig did in ow1. back to sym though, her health support was not enough.
so if you change her to support you could neuter her damage completely then what. leave her with healing orbs and healing turrets ( when illari and baptiste already exist). then youd just have old symmetra, with even less ways to defend herself and remove any independent plays she could do with her teleporter, as now her damage is neutered , because shes support.
this was literally a thing before and it failed miserably. the entitlement of support mains should be studied tbh
I actually really liked applying shields to my teammates. I don't know why, it felt good to see them running around with 25 more hp, potentially saving their lives with that overhealth, especially someone like Tracer or Genji
@@pwpqwq7648 never got to use it myself, but it does seem like something that could be surprisingly satisfying with its uniqueness.
Same. I feel like a playstyle that revolves around giving your teammates small but additional utility fits Symmetra very well. Much like tidying up the small flaws and weaknesses around the team.
I really hope they bring back the shield generator or some concept of it because we still don't have a shield Support.
It also had a big benefit we only really appreciate today, that being health breakpoints. Some combos that do almost perfectly 250 hp now give the person being attacked a decent chance of surviving.
I actually saw a really cool reimagination of support Symmetra that still gave her a shield-based theme and, personally, I feel like it would be a lot more interesting than Symmetra now.
The reimagined kit went something like this:
Primary and Secondary Fire - No change
Passive - Photon Shields: Allies within a 30m radius of Symmetra have 50% of their health converted into shield HP. This effect lingers for 5 seconds after the ally leaves the effective radius.
Ability 1 - Amplify Shields: Enhances the rate at which an ally's shields begin to regenerate.
Ability 2 - Teleporter: No changes
And I can't remember if they changed her ult or not.
But, other than probably adding a cap to the health-to-shield conversion (because, if not, Roadhog would have 375 shields, and that's kind of insane with the global healing passive stack), I feel like this would be pretty balanced and interesting.
o think the radius would have to be changed to like 20 minutes but other than that sounds pretty good
I think a cap at 100 to 150 would be fine, though Reaper would have like 150 shields which sounds op asf. Also this does sound really fun. I'm also going to try to replicate this in the workshop
@@waterrr6332 i mean yeah it would be broken thats why they gave up on adding anything similar to it. why do you think hp breakpoints are so important? hanzo was left in the trash before his arrows were buffed to 125 dmg each,so he could one shot. and getting nerfs for low dmg potential or low mobility as a drawback to balance it out just because symm now would be able to mess up all the games breakpoints... on a mechanic that literally anyone can make use of....yeah no
hell illaris whole turret healing theme works because shes just a long range hitscan dps. she would feel so bad to play if she was just melee attack beam+ slow orb too
@@polar6066 It's not adding any health. That shit would stupidly op. It's like converting health to shields. Like Soldier has 250 hp and the shield health thing the op suggested would make Soldier have 125 health and 125 shields. A flat out health increase sounds outrageous and game breaking. Tracer with more than 200 hp is something I don't want in my games.
Also she might need massive buffs to her weapon if they were to change to support
I luv her turrets tho
A non-healer support sounds like a interesting concept
it really is, and i wish i could confidently say i’d actually want that in the game…but imagine what team chat would look like, when you only have one healer supporting the team 🫣
@dankadoodledoo4594 That's true. I'm a support main but the team chat would probably yell at you to go pick a support that actually heals.
That can actually work if Symmetra had something that increases second healer’s healing to compensate for the lack of second healer
@@QT_Jeanne ana exists. and it would still not be enough since if said healer dies, then the team is done for. because there wont be another healer to back up
@@polar6066 That’s… an ability, which lasts seconds. I’m talking about something like a passive ability for Symmetra that automatically and permanently increases healing of the second healer to compensate.
And how can you say that when the game literally has one tank? it doesn’t matter if second healer died or not, it’s up to the players for strategies
As a masters sym main, I think she’s really fun and actually in a good spot rn but most people don’t know how to actually play her.
Sym’s strongest play is tp-bombing (teleporting u plus ur turrets all at once behind the enemies) but for some reason most people that play sym don’t do it. It’s really ez to catch players off guard with this and the kill potential is really fast (place tp and instantly charge secondary fire so that when you tp you can full charge orb the person all 3 turrets are targeting). I almost always get at least one kill with it and it’s not difficult to get multiple and if that play doesn’t work out just instantly tp back to saftey.
People also don’t utilize sym’s tp within fights and just think it can only be used to tp you team past a choke. For example if you are beaming the enemy tank and your tank doesn’t have a shield you can place tp so that you can keep tp-ing between opposite angles so that the enemy tank is forced to keep turning to shoot you or just shoot the tp letting you basically get to full charge for free.
I think people try playing sym like a poke character when they should play her like a pseudo dive character (kinda like echo).
I personally think syms teleporter should be permanent like most other "player builds" in the game. It just feels awkward to have it behave more like soldiers healing can or bob instead of like other turrets.
Well, how long in average your to lives? Around 5 second? I mostly destroy them personally, neither they got destroyed by enemies
@@ISLAM6412 It's extremely useful to teleport between two chokes or angles to spam right clicks
nah i heavily disagree with this. it sounds better on paper but in practice a temporary tp is way more useful in the fast paced nature of ow2.
infinite tp was useful in some cases, but it was really hard to use in a teamfight because the cooldown would only start going down after destroying the tp.
when it’s temporary however the cooldown goes down the moment it’s placed down so you end up being able to use it much more often and take more risks with it and use it more aggressively
infinite tp had some use in overwatch 1 especially for stuff like 2cp defense etc (although i still think temporary tp would’ve been better even in ow1) but for ow2 i think temporary tp is just better in every way
I is the turret deployment animation of Symmetra 2.0, it was so satisfying. However, I enjoy playing current Sym.
Symmetra’s Evolution: Initially a support hero, she underwent multiple reworks, including changes to her abilities and eventually moving to the DPS role.
Original Kit: Her early abilities included a locking beam, photon shield, and turrets that needed manual placement.
Reworks: Over the years, her abilities like photon barrier and shield generator were introduced and adjusted for more utility.
Current DPS Symmetra: Her kit is now more focused on damage, with a playstyle that thrives in specific map situations.
Balance History: Symmetra has undergone various buffs and nerfs but retains niche usage.
To be honesty they could have cooked more with support sym before the rework a shield generator support seemed like such a fun idea back in ow1
I feel like after removing characters that provide armor and shield health there is a hole that needs to be filled in the support role for those things.
Symmetra was my first main in overwatch. Ive played through all three versions and as such have put way too much time into her.
My favorite version of Symm was 2.0 aka her first rework. They took everything about 1.0 and made it better. Unfortunately she still wasnt good balance wise. Being a support without healing is a huge problem. Often times you ran into the issue of, do we lose a second healer or a second damage. In my opinion symm leaned more towards damage but you still had to sacrifice an actual damage hero if you slotted her in there.
On top of that her kit still had some major handicaps from her first version. The old piercing orbs were the slowest projectile in the game by far, meaning that she was extremely unreliable at range. This on top of them taking a full 3s to charge! Her old turrets required you to be near a surface to place and casting the ability also inflicted a self slow, making it a detriment to use these mid combat.
Instead of addressing these pain points. Symmetra went without a SINGLE balance change up until her next rework as you said.
The 3.0 rework was very drastic. While my grievances with turrets and the orbs were remedied. The leniency of old symm was lost with her new beam, with it no longer being autolock (but it still has the charge requirement from the autolock version.) Photon barrier which gave her some much needed self defense also got the boot. And while i initially really liked the new teleporter, nowadays i feel like its a ball and chain that prevents symm from being balanced as a proper damage dealer. In theory how can you buff her survivability or consistensy when she has the capacity to relocate her whole team at once. This ability is the sole reason as to pick this hero. As other damage heroes (and other roles) either have more consistent dps, better staying power in the frontline, or better ranged capabilities.
In regards to overwatch 2 its obvious that they have no idea what to do with her. She keeps getting random buffs and nerfs with most of the changes missing the mark. The shield siphon and revealing turrets were the wackiest to me.
Ive made numerous rework concepts for this hero. I would like her to go back to support but in theory she could work in any role, yes even tank. I personally think support would be more simple given her focus on utility as well as acknowledging her origins. I do believe that healing could be implemented in her kit. Either by a return of the orignal photon shields or healing turrets. Granted those turrets would need some logic instead of the auto zapping turrets from that experimental.
I aplogize for the essay. Despite not really playing overwatch anymore im still very passionate about this hero! Thanks for the vid!
most of your suggested changes suck though lol and their vision is mostly related to how shes used in pro play, not your questionable workshop ideas yellow.
also so sorry if i sound rude but im kinda tired of many sym players saying hou have no idea wth youre talking about yet NOBODY wants to straight up say it. its ok to not be a good symmetra player, or to prefer other playstyles roles, but its not ok to pretend youre in some kind of dev chair and go out your way on saying what symmetras real hero direction is.
when youre not even that good with her lol.
this goes for anyone who insists on ideas like tank or support symm tbqh, most if not all ppl who defend this idea are
a)horrible at symmetra/healer one trick
b)actually wants symmetra to be nerfed/neuter her dmg, despite her.... neutering her dmg just making her worse, because that was already the case with 2.0.
i think ive only met ONE person whos decent enough to symmetra to question her role sometimes, but so many of them are just moira and mercy one tricks who want the world to revolve around them apparently and shove her to a support role with neutered damage (literally came across with someone who suggested symmetra to have a 55 DMG orb that still took one full second to charge and was 2 times slower. but everyone celebrated it, because symmetra.... gave shields. and they were all moira and mercy mains. lmao??? what is this????
@@polar6066 Not that it should matter but I have hit masters playing symm pre and post role queue. Though anyone of any skill should be allowed to express opinions on their favorite heroes. Most of my rework concepts for symm do take her out of the damage role which in turn would lower her damage. Another reason for balancing her that way is due to symm originally being a lenient character skill wise in the support class. Most of the comments I've received from my concepts were in favor of said concepts. I never claimed to be a game dev, but I still stand by those reworks. Obviously without testing on a large scale we will never know how they'd play in game. My main gripe with symm is how the dev team had 0 regards for her original player base in regards to how drastic the rework was. It's especially apparent if you compare symms 3.0 rework with some modern reworks like Sombra and hog.
I still stand by my statement that symm 2.0 could have worked if the devs actually tried. I also think 3.0 is a failure but when compared to 2.0 she does do better stats wise. I suppose it is better to be played on a select few maps for a few minutes instead of not being played at all. I do understand that there are many who enjoy symms current state but I feel that 3.0 should have been a new hero so as to not remove one that many people loved.
The problem with buffing Symm 2.0 was that she was still a support
The buffs she needed were from a damage dealing perspective. But buffing something like her old secondary fire to behave more like it does today but keeping the piercing around? That'd be too much damage potential for a support. Those old orbs were real good utility, they just had low damage per second.
And her old noodle beam definitely did not need buffs. It was the easiest weapon to use by far, so making it good at dealing damage would have been horrible for the game. Especially with the barrier she had and potential 75 extra health? If Symm 2.0 were ever a meta character it would have been horrendous, she very easily could have been made a total degenerate character with number buffs.
Her turrets were just about the only thing they could have buffed to be more like now without it getting out of hand, and I think they realized that given they never buffed the character at that time.
@polar6066 I think that characters should be balanced around how the majority of the playerbase play them, not by whatever pros are doing. We saw what happens when you try to add characters to balance or change pro metas. That would be launch Brigitte.
I miss photon barrier so much I used to kill Pharah every time she’d ult
Yeah me too! Also good for pushing chokes
If i were to say anything, Support Sym was actually something i tried to main back in the day and nowadays i rarely play her because she feels weird as a DPS. If i were to rework her i would do the following:
SYMMETRA
Passive: Photon charge
- New passive ability for symmetra that automatically charges up to a maximum amount of shields she can give to her teammates or use for building utility items. However, the shields received are a maximum amount divided for each role (Tank = 150, Damage = 70, Support = 50).
- If the charge is empty, she will convert 0.5x of the same amount on their team's health instead. Shields from an empty charge decay faster.
- Photon charge shields decay after ?? seconds, Amplifier temporarily removes the decay until cooldown.
Photon projector
- Primary fire no longer amps up, but will instead be used to make Photon Charge regenerate faster.
- Primary fire now locks on to targets, including their own team.
- Primary fire will give shields to teammates, if Photon Charge is depleted it will convert their health instead.
- Primary fire will heal teammates by a small amount, if photon charge is depleted it will heal more rapidly.
- Primary fire beam now resembles 3 beams intersecting (kind of like Overwatch 1, but also not).
- Secondary fire amps up based on charge depletion
Photon Sentry
- Unchanged. Regenerates photon charge faster when dealing damage.
Photon amplifier (Replaces the old teleporter on default RB)
- Allows symmetra to amplify shield regeneration for a short amount of time. Also affects shield characters and players who have received shields from symmetra.
Photon replicator
- Swap to Symmetra's hand with D-pad Right to allow you to build static items using some of her Photon Charge.
Photon teleporter
- Unchanged. Cost 10% of Photon Charge to deploy. Place with RT, cancel with LT, config is RB as current.
Photon generator
- Places down a shield generator that gives the team 50 extra shields in a certain AOE until it is destroyed. Cost 30% of Photon Charge. Place with RT, cancel with LT, config is LB. Can be placed on any surface.
Ultimate: Photon barrier
- Unchanged
Her primary heals slow until you run out of charge and now helps with the addition of her sentries to regen her total charge faster. Her secondary is her go to damage while she focuses on utility again, this is what i wish Blizzard would have done ages ago.
Symmetra 1.0 had the highest win rate at 68% overall, but surprisingly a similar win rate in high elo. How was this possible? Increasing Max HP was wildly OP at a time when boosted healing was not a thing. The two highest primary healing was mercy (50 HP/S) and lucio (amped at around 40 per second AOE with only non visual limits, however his speed boost at the time was 120% which made it the better amp). Her teleporter unlike original mercy resurrection made it a pseudo secondary objective, splitting enemy attention at a time when communication was new. Her homing primary fire, when weaker (30, 60 & 120 per second at slower progression rates) made it so that if you did not deal with her early, she would mop the enemy team (especially if they were fragile). Finally, her defence on chokes were massive, as her 120 damage orbs were the only piercing projectile in the game, meaning they could go through a Reinhardt barrier, which was a go to tank, damaging both his shield and himself. Symmetra 1.0 was one of the best defensive support heroes.
Symmetra 2.0 was similar however, the barrier was able to protect her and her team as an offensive pushing barrier or a defensive barrier against both projectile and hits can damage heroes. This had similar effect to her Max hp barrier, except it was kite-able so it had a counter. Her shield generator was a massive buff as if the enemy team did not react to the generator, it was favour her team. This was also at a time where Torb could throw armour packs (75 stacking armour points) and brig could throw armour healing (150 HP including 75 stacking armour points), making someone like tracer have 150HP/75shields/150armour (375 total HP).
The previous version of symmetra, 3.0 before OW2 is very different. Her orb was for a short brief of time dealing a massive 140 non pericing damage which was a tracer killer, so it was reverted to 120. It was slower than current orb. She also had lots of tweaks to her non homing straight beam, and had teleporter tweaks, sometimes temporary sometimes permanent. Her ultimate was turned into a wall, which was arguably her weakest change as again, it's very kite-able, is able to be waited on at most times and can be destroyed by an EMP, or rare damage such as Bastion or roadhog whole hog.
Symmetra state has mostly been: fixed damage with a rewarding counter of timing on her primary fire, a poking and zoning secondary and some tricky teleporting and complimentary turret objectives. Because of her design she'll never have a feeling of being an easy threat. No one shots, no true immediate escape (unless the teleporter is already down), just an average workhorse hero that is near impossible to catch up with the best heroes of the meta... Unless she's up against 3-5 counters, she won't do as well as many other damage heroes.
i js think it’s hilarious that before sym was moved to the dps role they stated in a redit ama that they would NEVER make healing turrents since they felt they didn’t fit with the fast pace of the game… just to add illari’s healing pylon 5 years later in ow2 which is arguably much faster paced than ow1 ever was
Miss symetra's og weapon, I know the removed the lock on because people who died to her said the lack of aim did not take skill, but het shield timing and having to learn to play both avoiding attacks and in range of your weapon exposed her alot to where you were going to die if you did not know how to use her. Her previous orbs would have helped against the horrible bunker style of gameplay
Fr like if Symm got close enough to actually lock on for like 4 seconds, they deserve to get cooked. She was the perfect character for humbling people. 😭
Honestly something that would be really cool is having photon barrier and turret bound to the same ability with primary sending out a turret that can also damage a bit while projecting until set up. And barrier being used with secondary so she can have options. And for TP and Shield gen being bound similarly with shield gen giving 25-50 hp for as 8 seconds letting her be more active for a team fight depending on the situation. Keeping ult as is. She already has the files for them and it would be awesome to have another hero with changing abilities like Ram.
6:49 Personally, I don't think a support hero who doesn't heal would work in 5v5, or 6v6 for that matter. We've seen a similar design with early Lifeweaver and he's probably the worst performing hero on launch, where he provided minimal healing, easy access to highgrounds and solo death prevention with life grip (so utility). Not to mention having a hero like that places too much pressure on the other support in the team who will now be forced to play like a healbot, instead of looking for opportunities to make plays (which is kinda unfair imo?). I think a workaround would be to make DPS heroes with a larger focus on utility rather than on raw damage output. We already have Mei in the game, who can slow enemies with her primary, break LOS with cooldowns and her ice wall has a ton of interesting interactions with enemy abilities that is hella rewarding to master (e.g breaking roadhog hook/ junkrat trap) and I'd be happy to see more where that came from.
We could just make her an off-support and make it so she can heal, but make it not her focus. I agree as a support main while having a support that doesn't heal is a really cool idea it would place too much pressure on the other guy to heal the entire match. This would require either Sym healing or make her utility powerful enough to make up for not healing, which could easily tip into being OP.
I miss the secondary fire going through barriers
In my 200 hours of experience with her, the most among all other heroes, Symm has some fairly notable weaknesses, that can make playing her feel pretty laborious and unfun even if she's technically viable.
Reliance on Orbs. Beam has a short range, so any fight beyond it requires you use orbs. But orbs are both slow to charge, and move, for a DPS that's not even good, around 90 per second (Mercy's blaster has 100dps by the way). So any fight against pokey heroes is already hard unless you can charge beam off tank then TP in. And it must be Tank. Other squishies are either too fast, or too deadly to give you beam charge. So, even in some short-range fights where you'd expect to use beam, you still have to rely orbs because you just can't get beyond lvl1 charge. Which can mean losing, as pretty much ever other squishy has better DPS than Symm's orbs and she has no immediate escape (TP needs time to set up). You need at least one turret on your target to be able to threaten them.
Turrets are Bad. Low HP, low DPS, looong cooldown of 10s. It often doesn't matter if set them up in a specific formation, because a lick of damage and put those 10 seconds to waste. Sometimes the fight just doesn't happen around turrets, and they sit on a flank route doing nothing. It gets worse because you rely on nearby turrets to help you get competitive DPS compared to other squishies. But their cast time, set-up animation and ability to be destroyed in-flight prevent you from using them dynamically. You can't engage with them at all. But defensive turret placement is predictable and highly vulnerable to AoE damage. Or just quick flicks with good awareness. I desperately want them to get a durability buff. Or maybe just more turrets. Or a reduced cooldown. An overhaul, preferably. Something. I want to be able to use my turrets on the turret hero.
Unfavourable Niche. One of the best things Symm can do is melt Tanks. Except, Tank-busters are pretty unfun, and Tanks recently got notable buffs. So her prime targets all just got more durable and more deadly. Since Symm doesn't have self sustain (the healing from beam is barely active for 10 seconds every 10 minutes, and doesn't even heal enough to change the outcome of a fight), she forces Tanks into a DPS check where winning is determined by if Symm gets enough team resources to overcome her fragility. And even then, if the target Tank gets enough healing or has good cooldowns, you have to back off or get destroyed.
Yess, when I play her I realize how fragile I am and ponder if I should just pick bastion or something (the better tank buster imo)
I think a reasonable change would be giving her a 10 second decay on her beam (just like ow1) and a turret dmg buff, even a 120 dmg orb damage if were feeling confident
@@z1orr91 Ah! 120 orbs. That would be amazing.
It'd allow to you actually fight other squishies.
literally this! This is what they need, an actual Symm main. Not ppl with input that doesn't actually address her playability, usefulness, shortcomings and most importatly fun factor. When I started in OW1 I mained Symm and they just kept shifting her until they moved her to DPS, I don't DPS though so I have been forced to stay on Support. If they brought her back to DPS or addressed her mishandling I'd go back. What's insane is that even though I main two or three other supports now Symm is still my most played by A LOT just bc of how many hours I logged in as her when I used to main her
dps and support sym on the same team would go crazy
How about we get crazier and get a full 6 man team of support sym's going back to no hero limits.
@@RockSkull sextuple shield on TOP
5:39 i chuckled at the mercy just chilling lmao
Reduced turret damage, add slow effect to turrets that can stack with more turrets. Add her ability to give shields and make it a flat 100 shield that is transferred from person to person like zen orb. Ult is fine, teleporter is fine.
love the transferrable shield idea!
@@Andi-ng5uountil it ends up like old zen orb and just gets put on the genji/tracer and left there permanently
@@jacobrose4972 Make it so it only regens when it's not placed on a person, like how tank shields only regen when they aren't out.
Blizzard removed and worked any and all support abilities. The game has tank, dps, and healer roles. People hated sym becuase she couldn't heal, ignoring her support benefits.
She has only one support ability - teleporter. She rather was utility support, but mostly she played as dps
@ISLAM6412 that should be enough right? Since the roles are tank, damage, and support right? Her ult is even a giant ass barrier.
Well, something else that was a major problem that’s overlooked is the fact that health now regenerates for characters when an overwatch 1 only mercy regenerated health passively for herself so the shields could have been useful as a semi health buffer
I think she was a lot more unique as a support,
Currently she is just torb with a beam attack unstead of a fully unique character,
I do think her ult is better now as her teleport being a normal ability has let her keep up with the pace of the game
If I were to make her a support, I’d allow her beam to heal (like how Ana and Juno can heal and damage with their guns.)
I wouldn’t change anything else besides giving TP more range and a Qol UI change.
This way she’d be kind of a lifeweaver, Moira, Illari combo
@@finnnnnnlol3650 exactly
If she was given a healing beam, I think I'd prefer it be a mode change with the mouse wheel, like mercy and torbjorn. Though since it'd just be the beam that changes, and not the whole weapon, I think the mode swap should be instant
My problem with DPS!Sym is that it doesn't fit her lore at all, but I played a lot of her in every state and I do enjoy most of the changes to her kit.
If I was reworking her, I'd want to try her as Support again with these changes:
Passive; Light Into Being. Shields provided by Sym decay at 5/s, but heal at 15/s. Max 75 shield provided to a single hero, though individual limits from distinct sources would be good too.
Primary fire has soft-lock on similar to Moira's, and can lock onto allies to provide shields; secondary fire's orbs can hit allies and provide shields in doing so. Damage is reduced to compensate and the damage:heal ratio can be roughly equal to Ana's primary fire
Teleporter acts as current, but can be alt fired to make a shield generator. The cooldown is brought more in line with immortality field, but it is also reduced for the alternate you didn't last use.
Sentries act as current, but their damage is reduced by 1/3rd for each sentry locked onto the same target.
I really like that idea but instead i think the secondary fire should be a direct heal instead. Overall this whole giving shield to prevent death and healing through it is insanely creative and i totaly would start to main Symmetra again with a kit like that
@@szunaloneheart3148 thankyou!
I get what you mean with the direct heal, but see i think the rate which you apply shield with secondary could be quite high- say she's providing shields at the same rate as Mercy's heal rate, and the shields themselves are providing 15hps, then she's already better at sustaining a character through chip damage. Add to that the shield generator and her target wouldn't notice most small damage.
The downside, then, is that since the shield provided is capped, the target is still vulnerable to burst damage.
Sym's status then becomes sustain in combat and secondary heal out of combat
Hell was any 2 point capture map while the enemy ran symetra sheild generator and torbjorn armor packs.
Illari has a healing turret, no reason sym cant have the same.
That’s exactly what I was saying. They didn’t give to sym it didn’t match with the speed of the game. Which is complete and utter bullshit
I want Symmetra to go back to the support category. I agree that I there should be a support player that doesn’t do actual healing and instead relies on different moves to support players (for example, shields or armor packs, an ability that has temporary heals; like zen).
Firstly, the way I would rework Symmetra is instead of having her charged beam attacking enemies, make it so when it’s charged, it actually applies heals to allies (almost like Juno). This gives Symmetra a weakness (she loses the ability to fight long range) but can also be impactful in the back line during fights.
Secondly, take away the turrets as a ability and instead make it a killing passive ability for her. What I mean by this is, every time Symmetra wants to summon a turret, she loses a small amount of life force. BUT, her turrets can heal apply 100 hp or so shields or armor packs to allies every 10 second. I believe this is balanced because Symmetra as a support needs to stay alive and support the team and this allows Symmetra to shine a bit when supporting. She’s constantly battling to stay alive and helping teammates stay alive. Also, the turrets can also still have its beam ability to shoot enemies when in sight.
Lastly, change her ultimate and make photon barrier an ability and have it with teleport. She can choose which to summon. And make Symmetra’s ultimate like Lifeweaver’s, but instead of health, it applies an immortal field for 10 seconds or so to all surrounding allies. This ultimate may seem overpowering but considering all the other “overpowering” ults. I consider this just an counter ult. (For example, for Ram, Kiriko, Juno, Queen, Junkrat, etc….). This ult will allow Symmetra to be impactful in battles.
We definitely live in a world where a more Support-based Symmetra can exist. Maybe doubling down on the Shields aspect could work, either with a Shield Generator or freely granting it as an Ability.
Maybe we can revisit the healing turrets, but only let it passively generate shield health for allies within a certain radius?
People love the say torb is the engineer of overwatch which isn't wrong but sym definitely felt more like engineer with all the utility she provided, and while i agree these both needed a rework, this wasnt the way to go
They completely shafted the utility for more damage which isnt necessarily bad but they went way to far with it removing it completely which goes Against their core identitys, and while Torb is doing good its just because he gets so much value from brainless spamming, while sym struggles to do any damage because so many characters are just infinitely better at her at it
Shield barrier symm will always have a place in my heart. Blocking shatters and hooks gave me a high ive never known since 😭
I was a support symmetra main back then and i still miss her old flying photon barrier. I still think to this day that her healing option should have been her secondary and the turrets should have some form of different utility.
Hell she even could have a barrier-heal back in Overwatch1 where barriers overall were more prominent, which would have given her a very unique support kit imo.
Meanwhile I dont play Overwatch2 anymore since all supports are not that fun to me anymore. I want my support Sym back and in all honesty, with the modern support designs she would fit way better in that roster with her more "aggressive playstyle"
I played at the time of "support" symmetra. I always defended the idea that she was actually a dps. But when someone picked a Symmetra making the team have 3 supports, another support would inevitably change to a dps. So a Symmetra team was always lacking in healing. Added that to the fact a sombra (2nd caracter to be releaved after launch) could always go around and break the tp, Symmetra was often a liability that was only used when the team had to defend for 1 minute or so and the tp would come in clutch for overtime respawns
I was thinking I love Symm but I use her a lot against shielding tanks like Rein, sigma, and old Orisa. Maybe they reduce her charge damage to heroes but raise it to shields so she could be a shield busting support, and then maybe her turrets can heal as well like pylon. Plus then she can still have tp still have her ult but maybe one of those passive abilities where she can steal shield health and apply it as a small buff on allies near her. Makes her go great with a go in tank that wants to be right in their face.
Also the thing with her turrets shooting while they're flying was perfect they should bring that back
Symm did recieve a change between beta and her release. They nerfed the shield she gives to allies from 75 to 25, and then a month later announced the first rework (which just gave her a new ult to grant 75 shield)
Didn't play OW1, but I like symm as she is now. She needs effort to work effectively since her turrets don't really kill well anymore. She's creative with tele and turrets. She's a very unique experience among all the DPS.
I think she can work in most maps but need creativity. Although she can have lots of trouble with fliers like pharah.
My favorite thing ever was to hide on the second point of Volskaya after a team wipe and then teleporting my entire team from the attacking spawn onto point. So stupid, but so fun haha. June 26, 2018 was a terrible day for me as someone who sucks at aiming lmao
I like the idea of shield generator, but on a different character with healing potential as well, just reduce the range and the amount provided by the shield gen.
I wish old Blizzard iterated on ideas more before totally throwing an interesting concept away. Scatter Arrow, Repair Pack overheal, and support Symmetra are all good examples of things that could have worked well if they had been willing to tweak them more, but they just didn't. Symmetra with her current ultimate, gun and teleporter would work great with minimal tweaks if they just swapped out her turrets for a more supportive ability and added some sort of reliable healing, but instead they decided to just lock onto her most annoying ability as the essential thing to keep, while changing every other part of her so significantly.
Lowkey symm feels like an actual balance nightmare she can’t be too strong cause because the way her kit is designed she feels frustrating to play against but whenever she’s not strong she feels almost too weak compared to most other dps heroes she’s stuck between what sombra and orisa are not frustrating enough for people to want her reworked again like with sombra but not boring enough for people to not want to play her like orisa she really feels like she was made a while ago and sadly I think the game just out grew her design philosophy
As a symmetra main from day one while i am nostalgic for old sym it doesn't really have a place in todays overwatch. Unless the game gets a big overhaul non healing supports just wont work. Im also worried bringing back her abilities that gave almost permanent health increases would make her hella annoying in OW2
I think symmetra should have been reworked into the tank category for OW2.
If they changed her turrets from a damage beam, so that they each make a small bubble around them that absorbs or eats a percentage of the damage that passes through them, or maybe they reduce the damage of any enemy they are beaming instead of damaging them.
As a Symmetra player, i play her strictly for the turrets and I think that’s what the devs should focus on. I would make the turrets squishier but be able to throw 6 of them like before and even make it so in kills/assist i get a turret restocked. I’d also buff the damage on them a little and nerf primary weapon. I’d keep the Barrier ultimate and teleporter as is!
Basically the kinda concept that Symmetra has should immediately put her in support no questions asked.
Her turrets act as a more defensive form of protection and spacial lock down like Mei’s wall that acted as the squishy protected before brig qas released. She centralised in shield health regeneration and barriers for further means of protection and grant independence to her allies. She’s the only character who has team based teleportation which has always been used very supportively in all its forms.
Both her weapon fires have always had some type of gimmicky or special function that granted enemy barrier destruction in some way.
The only “dps” thing about Symmetra was honestly that she DID a lot of damage however inconsistent it may have been and that she could provide consistent ally sustaining like every other support. A minor set back that could’ve easily changed but for some reason the devs really didn’t want to have Symmetra heal or even have a healthy healing alternative in her kit like some weirdos too stubborn to change what they deemed “didn’t fit” for her which forced her out of the SUPPORT role all of her abilities were designed for.
Her current playstyle and direction is a mess. Still played on the same select few maps good for turret lock down and used as a poke based shitty tracer with her teleporter and orbs. She’s no less niche imo than what she’s always been as a character. With features and abilities far too limited and situational for her and their own good.
Imo she should be a support. Healing can be added to her and changed look or functionality wise for character design with ease like with shield health regeneration and what not. So many of her abilities should be more stronger or just more universal in function to be supportive. I honestly miss the idea of team teleportation being something Symmetra did often and of course her turrets have and will always be a supportive annoyance non player threat rather than a big damage dealing trap.
They could’ve easily made a dps support hybrid out of Symmetra the way they did with Mei but never understood what made Mei always okay as a dps despite her supportive qualities (which is that she could use those supportive tools for herself whilst also still supporting teammates). Plus the type of supporting Symmetra always provided beyond some area lockdown was team teleportation which became obsolete as the game became faster and the limitations of her teleporter weren’t worth the obvious hassle when we’re also no longer forced to play heavy chokepoint like maps.
I miss support Symmetra and to me she’s actually the one dps who feels really dated with her kit which is wild given how many times she’s been reworked. Plus her play style and player fantasy DO NOT match in the slightest anymore.
I have hope one day they’ll rework her far in the future if not into support then into an ACTUAL dps/support hybrid character. They did such a good job with a quite a few reworks for many characters in the game thus far with some like Sombra who I thought would always be the same yet was proven wrong. Wish this level of treatment and care would be thrown in Symmetra’s way for one in her entire existence as a character.
I think the second version with the moving barrier was the best one. I think the thing that needs to go for something better is the turrets. She was my fav character to play. The DPS version works, but she's so much more work than other dps. I think OW should have doubled down on more utility supports that don't heal instead of reducing support to healer.
The only problem with support sym was people thinking they could get away with not having 3 supports or at least a moira/ana. Like I think changing her role without changing her at all would have been a buff.
I remember lots of games where people thought we were fine with only a zen for heals because "we have 2 supports".
Old sym should have been given a chance imo. The shield ability was one of the coolest dps/support abilities ever added with the way you had to use it to get close or the high value plays you could get like blocking a pharah ult etc. New sym might be better in a pro environment but is a lot less complex in her playstyle imo.
Tbh i think sym could be a great support if they changed some things like having 2 turrets who can heal and 2 who can dmg (2 separate ability), and the shield she gave but it only give 25hp and can only regenerate once after it got destoyed(another ability) , for her ult the 2 option thing was a good idea either shield generator or wall those changes could help her being more impactfull on the game and increase her utility
And for her beam and the ball i would keep the same that we have nowadays but maybe change the amo or dmg
Symmetra 2 was by far my favourite. They need to bring back photon barrier and shield generator even if they just give it to a Symmetra inspired tank.
like you said I do like the idea of a support that doesn't just heal that's why I was upset with Brigitte changes in ow2
I miss her old shield so much, it really helped her survivability, it was also so annoying seeing blizzard give abilities that could have helped her be given to other heroes
I think that the mirrorwatch sombra kit is really cool for a support
The earlier iterations of Sym were so iconic
Every day i miss support sym 😢 i really liked that play style and i really hope they add a new hero like her. If they ever add Daehyun (Dva’s mechanic) i hope he’d fill that void for me
As a support player, I really want sym back in our hands because she has the most satisfying voicelines in the whole game in my opinion
What I hate the most about DPS Symmetra(besides making her one when we have a billion DPS and need MORE supports) is how her kit fights itself. She's a squishy short-range DPS but has no self-peel/heal or escape. TP doesn't work for that end because it takes 6 years to build and it might get destroyed before you can come back. Turrets have a long CD but can be easily destroyed...She's a worse Zarya. She should be reworked back into support as a Shield and Utility-based Hero like Zen is a Damage-Focused Support. Some ideas:
*Passive:* Gives everyone 25 Shield HP while Sym is in the team.
*Primary Fire:* Reduced DMG because she's no longer a DPS.
*Secondary Fire:* Lonck-On Beam that heals Shield/Armor HP (Allies will always have at least 25 Barrier from her Passive)
*Teleporter:* Works like the new Lifeweaver Petal Platform. Permanent until destroyed or a new one is placed.
*Turrets:* Work like Moira's Orbs, can fire the standard Sentry Turret or a Repair Turret (they share a cap so you can have at most 2 of a type and 1 of the other, for example). Repair Turret heals Armor/Shield like *Secondary Fire*.
*Ultimate:* No changes.
With this kit she'd be a good pair for people with high-healing, since she has low "healing"(limited to 25 HP/s if the target has no Armor/Barrier) but can buy time for the other Support to heal people up. I made this specifically to synergize with Lifeweaver. This would also allow her to work well with Tanks, since most of them have Shield or Armor HP, and the Turret changes let her use them in a defensive manner(healing) when there isn't a good place to put them offensively, like during Attack rounds, where the point is constantly moving.
I miss throwing crockpot lids all the time. (although being able to throw turrets in Sym 3.0 was a legit great upgrade)
OW1 team barely knew what to do with her half the time, I think. OW2 dev team is just ignoring her, which may be for the best. (just look at their other patch changes lately)
Tbh the homing wasn't bad seeing Moira has it. I would've just made the homing mechanism of it have less range of it would be brought back.
I started playing ow 2 few months ago and is basically bc of her, is tragic I know, why have I fallen in love with the most hated complicated character in the game: hahaha, but I do my best, I'm already at gold rank with her, wich is a win to me. I learned many tricks with her and I have so much fun
As a symm player since the overwatch 1 beta symm support was way better than dps. Dps symm just feels like a beam bot. Symm support actually had her builder fantasy. I miss it alot and still hold out hope one day symm will return to the support role with her themes and gameplay fully realised
Beta symm has 75 hp with photon shield. Remember this old good times 😉
I think she doesn't need to be reverted. She is in the best state right now. In ow1 she played as DPS. She got help, she became a real DPS with interesting kit, which can be used in aggressive push, as well as in defensive, more supportive stile (900 hours symm)
I completely forgot she used to not throw her turrets!!!
"non healing support"
*laughs in engineer/spy/sniper/heavy tf2*
u know what, they should add damage by explosion to her turrets. Many players counter Symmetra way too easily and way too fast, so the her turrets should actually give dmg when destroyed to at least compensate for her loosing them so easily
I really missed her spawn tp ability that she had back in ow1, but blizzard didn't even put a indicator of where the tp was in spawn leaving dumb players skipping over it. 🙄 I wish it could come back.
Can symmetra solo the enemy team only with her AURA?💜
I miss her old shield that moved forward and the sphere energy charged shots. Sure you can say they don’t know what to do with her but didn’t the devs say that they wanted this game to lean more into a shooter? More than a moba? She’s so boring to play now. These devs cannot understand that it’s okay if a hero is niche and doesn’t get picked a lot . They have all this mentality that if a hero isn’t reaching 50% win rate or pick rate then they gotta change it. Idk how true that statement is but it’s just my 2 cents. Tldr: support Sym is way more fun than current sym and they alienated the symmetra playerbase
I know this sentiment has already been shared both in the video and in the comments but I feel like saying it one more time couldn't hurt, especially with a relatively hot take like this that I feel like most players (especially new OW2 exclusive players) need to hear;
Blizzard absolutely dropped the ball by giving up on Support Sym just because she couldn't heal. Supports are called supports for a reason. Their job should not be exclusively to heal. That's an incredibly narrow mindset and it probably killed a lot of cool/creative character ideas which we'll never know of now early in their development which is beyond disappointing. By giving up on support Sym I think they started a chain reaction that spawned some of the worst balancing decisions to ever come to overwatch and created the toxic idea that generalist heroes are the only good ones and any heroes that do not provide very clear value (specifically on the scoreboard) are trash.
If I'm being honest I think they dropped the ball even more when they condensed Offense and Defense into just Damage, but that's a whole extra can of worms I don't have the patience to break down.
Shield gen alone makes it a yes, if I saw that thing get dropped I’d INSTANTLY swap to someone who could go and destroy it.
I loved Photon Barrier so much
I love the Sumeru music fr 9m Genshin in the background. It sounds a lot like it so if I am wrong please correct me.
i may be bias since i started playing after her rework so im attached to dps sym, shes fun to play
Syms utility on Support would have to be beyond useful because it has no make up for the fact that she can't heal because I can see the hate for her as soon as players realize that she can't heal, though I wouldn't mind this. She'd have to have really wacky stuff to be good, like Converting half of everyone's health into Shields, having an ability to make those shields regen faster, make her turrets stick to allies, maybe an ability that protects an Ally from burst damage one time like a one time use block, maybe she could even move Mini health packs around so she synergies with Sombra and possibly have two ults like back then. Maybe Teleporter and Photon Barrier. This sounds really dumb lmao
i feel the old sym should been a new hero, by that i mean i would like a supp that gave shields and all that, maybe one day.
I swear I’m the only sym player who prefers sym now and think she’s only gotten better after each rework. I’ve always considered her a dps ever since first playing her since sym 2.0.
I’m sad I don’t remember those symms😢
(Copied from comment under @kingclampz6081) I'd give her two categories of sentries:
Ones (3) that work like they currently do, and a single one that shows the physical location of anyone in range (let's say, 5-10 meters as max distance), and in LOS. She can turn her regular sentries to either do dmg, or healing (focusing on the lowest relative hp hero first, gives them a far larger hurtbox). Dealing dmg increases beam lvl like usual, but you can cash in your beam level for a large burst of heals on the team.
I feel like support sym never really got a chance to show if it could have been good compared to dps. With support they just reworked and left it alone until the next rework. They never really buffed thr abilities after the rework. Dps sym got buffs to help
so her turrets do 30 dmg and have 40 health nowadays, good to know, I was looking for these informations but seems to have nowhere
DPS is better in my opinion. I play her a lot and she's borderline OP on certain maps and really bad on others. Very weird hero. Her biggest issue has and will always be how she needs to charge both primary and secondary to do damage.
oH gOD i MISS HER SLOW ORB
Make symmetra a tank next blizzard just for the laughs, it will definitely be better than the season 13 sombra rework
Ive been playing for 3 weeks. My haw dropped how fast her tp was. Shes still the go to for bad dps to switch to tho 😂
I honestly think Symm would fit better in the tank role than the DPS role. (she still belongs to the support role tho)
They need to get off with the turrets, it doesn't fit in the overwatch gameplay, even with torbjön feels clunky. Blizzard could have worked on a lot of gameplay concepts with her as a support but they just gave up and moved her into the DPS role
I would like to see something related to giving temporal shields to her allies, I mean some characters already do that in someway (junker queen, life weaver )
She could keep her actual ultimate, it doesn't ever fit too well with the DPS role anyway
I never liked how the teleport works with her actual version, I understand it could be useful in some situations, but it's so specific because you can't rely on it since iit s a destructible structure, I prefer a new utility ability, can be a "barrier" but instead of protect form damage, applies a cc or buff with a "switch" playstyle, for example in stance one can apply a slow, in stance 2 apply a speed buff, it could a apply a damage boost or can be switched to a reflective bullets barrier, idk it's just an idea
Sorry if I wrote something wrong, I don't speak English XD.
she’s op now tbh 100 charge zarya in like 3 seconds on top of tiny turrets that slow you down and can just replace so quickly
I miss utility support symmetra
Ahh, the nostalgia
I still think shes a supporter, her TP as a flank is so powerful and nobody even uses it
tbh they could make her kit like Juno’s
i feel most people who want support symmetra have pretty bad concepts of what supports should be (aka literally suggesting any health stack ability outside a temporary ult) or worse, make her support rely on her turrets and use the worst arguments ever to justify why itd be a good addition.
also, support symmetra wasnt used ever in pro play. dps sym is still used, even over many heroes.
also the "her ult is support" complaints really weird me out. theres mei,widowmaker over there lol.
@@polar6066 nobody cares about pro play so bad point. They can make it to where her turrets heal and her alt fire also heals and can still keep the teleporter since that’s a support type utility anyways
@@kingclampz6081oh, maybe go suggest this to r/competitiveoverwatch then!! after all the devs are doing amas there lately. im sure everyone will LOVE what you just suggested there!!!
@@kingclampz6081 i think a big chunk of people dont care about your opinion either so that could be an argument by your logic
other than that reading your other comments im just SO glad you arent in charge of this game. ow1 got enough dmg from that mindset, and it was still better than yours
I respects everyone who think symm should be a support agian and their opinions, but I personally disagree, I like dps symm the way she is.
Giant wall isn’t even a dps ability, as it deals no damage lol. She should be a support
Can you do mercy next?
doom switched roles too