@@lucas46g funnily enough I feel like clash was their secret attempt on fixing the game mode. Since 2cp may have had so many fundamental issues it required major changes to the maps themselves, along with how the game mode works in general.
All the main modes added since OW2 are better than 2cp for a very simple reason: they're symmetrical with the potential for actual back-and-forth and comebacks. 2cp is fundamentally either an immediate stomp or endlessly bashing your head against a wall until the clock runs out. 2cp is the mode that gave us Horizon and Paris, the two most hated maps in the game. You think there's any correlation there?
Agreed. I believe the devs said in an interview recently a lot of those older maps/gamemodes like 2cp were created around the idea of a more defense oriented game similar to tf2, but overtime they realized that's not really what overwatch was.
They finally put words in that interview to what I’d always felt playing the mode; the defense is SUPPOSED to have an oppressive advantage, which is also why teams can get blown out if they mess up their first defensive fight. I’m very glad they’ve undergone such a massive shift in philosophy of how they make maps and game modes to favour proactivity and offensive oriented gameplay more
If that were the case you'd think at least one of the maps would get it right, especially the newer ones. Seems like it turned out to be the opposite though with horizon and paris both being removed. The thing is the gamemode kind of needs those tight choke points and less flank routes for it to work, as the first verison of horizon proved that too many routes for attackers with less defensive advantage will just lead to steam rolls for them.
@ It’s all about fine tuning - something this dev team has proven time and time again they’re not willing to do. It’s not the mode’s fault if the devs are too lazy to do finer changes to map design.
@@LocalCatgirl0689 Definitely a fair point, however, I'm just not sure what they would even do to fine tune it. The horizon rework did feel like a decent attempt to fine tune, as it just removed 1 flank route and added more cover for first point while making stall on 2nd point harder. Even with this attempt the gamemode itself still had the flaws of the snowball effect for attackers, and a bunch of coordination required for a proper attack. I'm not sure if map changes alone can fix those issues.
The OW1 dev team and the OW2 devs are not the same people. The current team has reworked more of the old maps than ever before and most of them have had a lot of their long-standing issues solved. I’m not advocating for them to bring 2CP back in an attempt to fix those maps too, I fundamentally detest the mode. But blaming the current devs for something they had zero part in is just stupid
@ Firstly, I didn’t blame the current devs for 2CP’s problems. Secondly, the current devs have fallen into many of the same pits as the old ones, including once again proving to be unwilling to put in substantial effort. Also, to call most of the changes in OW2’s maps “reworks” is uh…wow. No standards for that word here, I guess. Everything they say is a rework just is to you guys.
People actually always just dodged 2cp games in qp back in the ow1 days, which is probably why paris and horizon got straight up removed from qp in ow1's last year. So I'm not even sure putting it in qp again would be a good idea.
They should bring it back with some map changes (more flank routes, paris point A total redesign) and maybe have it be competitive only for side swapping since the defending advantage would still exist no matter what they do
2cp wouldn't work for ow2 becasue of the immense sustain the game runs on. ex: anubis 2nd point has literally like a 5 second walk back to point so it would literally just be finally get a kill but it wouldn't matter cause it simply takes much longer to kill people in ow2 than it did in ow1, by the time some else dies the other person is probably already back. hell even in ow1 this is also an issue you kill the defenders slowly but they simply join the fight much faster than the attackers and have the better positioning so in the end the attackers end up losing the battle of attrition
I would rather have 2cp than that stupid ass mode with 5 points It sucks so bad, I have no idea how they tought it was a good idea to add it to the game
@@sp-nj9le I do get annoyed with the clash design at times too, but it still never compares to the sluggish crapscape that was 2cp for me. The thing about 2cp was that it required massive teamwork to get through, and we all know what depending on teammates in overwatch is like. Clash at least feels a lot more deathmatchy with more solo potential.
2cp maps were way more interesting despite their flaws. The symmetrical design just feels boring to me. Same thing with push, the only push map I like is Runasapi, and Esperanca is okay, I really don't like NQS or Colosseo. Flashpoint also has a flaw in map design where even though it's cool conceptually with the scale of the maps, most the space is just completely unusued at ranks above metal and is just empty space to move between the five spots where the team fights will always take place
Despite this modes issues, there is no reason why they can’t do a QP hacked to try fix the issues
@@lucas46g funnily enough I feel like clash was their secret attempt on fixing the game mode. Since 2cp may have had so many fundamental issues it required major changes to the maps themselves, along with how the game mode works in general.
Breaking through the choke points on Volskaya was so satisfying. Also, smashing the Hanamura arcade was so fun and I miss it
All the main modes added since OW2 are better than 2cp for a very simple reason: they're symmetrical with the potential for actual back-and-forth and comebacks. 2cp is fundamentally either an immediate stomp or endlessly bashing your head against a wall until the clock runs out.
2cp is the mode that gave us Horizon and Paris, the two most hated maps in the game. You think there's any correlation there?
Agreed. I believe the devs said in an interview recently a lot of those older maps/gamemodes like 2cp were created around the idea of a more defense oriented game similar to tf2, but overtime they realized that's not really what overwatch was.
They finally put words in that interview to what I’d always felt playing the mode; the defense is SUPPOSED to have an oppressive advantage, which is also why teams can get blown out if they mess up their first defensive fight. I’m very glad they’ve undergone such a massive shift in philosophy of how they make maps and game modes to favour proactivity and offensive oriented gameplay more
It was never an issue of the mode - the MAPS are the problem.
If that were the case you'd think at least one of the maps would get it right, especially the newer ones. Seems like it turned out to be the opposite though with horizon and paris both being removed.
The thing is the gamemode kind of needs those tight choke points and less flank routes for it to work, as the first verison of horizon proved that too many routes for attackers with less defensive advantage will just lead to steam rolls for them.
@ It’s all about fine tuning - something this dev team has proven time and time again they’re not willing to do. It’s not the mode’s fault if the devs are too lazy to do finer changes to map design.
@@LocalCatgirl0689 Definitely a fair point, however, I'm just not sure what they would even do to fine tune it.
The horizon rework did feel like a decent attempt to fine tune, as it just removed 1 flank route and added more cover for first point while making stall on 2nd point harder. Even with this attempt the gamemode itself still had the flaws of the snowball effect for attackers, and a bunch of coordination required for a proper attack. I'm not sure if map changes alone can fix those issues.
The OW1 dev team and the OW2 devs are not the same people. The current team has reworked more of the old maps than ever before and most of them have had a lot of their long-standing issues solved. I’m not advocating for them to bring 2CP back in an attempt to fix those maps too, I fundamentally detest the mode. But blaming the current devs for something they had zero part in is just stupid
@ Firstly, I didn’t blame the current devs for 2CP’s problems. Secondly, the current devs have fallen into many of the same pits as the old ones, including once again proving to be unwilling to put in substantial effort. Also, to call most of the changes in OW2’s maps “reworks” is uh…wow. No standards for that word here, I guess. Everything they say is a rework just is to you guys.
2cp definitely should just be a quick play gamemode, i dont think its interesting enough for comp
People actually always just dodged 2cp games in qp back in the ow1 days, which is probably why paris and horizon got straight up removed from qp in ow1's last year. So I'm not even sure putting it in qp again would be a good idea.
They should bring it back with some map changes (more flank routes, paris point A total redesign) and maybe have it be competitive only for side swapping since the defending advantage would still exist no matter what they do
7:20 are the old maps coming back to ow2 but in clash game mode?
I sure hope so! Paris and Horizon (esp horizon) are one of my all time favs aesthetics wise
We got anubis and hanamura already so it was an assumption based on that. Nothin confirmed though.
I don't know why people want to slow the games pace down even further
old bastion tank ;-; bring him back
Have you not looked at the arcade section when there isnt event gamemodes?
Indeed I have, but that assault they put out is like open que so it isn't really a good place to actually test the game mode or anything imo.
HAAAAAAANK
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK
DO NOT SHORTEN TWO CONTROL POINT HANK
HAAAAAAAAAAANK
If they're not gonna give us Horizon back, at least give us a moon based map because I miss that place so so much
Big vouch for both of your points; I love the aesthetics of horizon too.
2cp wouldn't work for ow2 becasue of the immense sustain the game runs on. ex: anubis 2nd point has literally like a 5 second walk back to point so it would literally just be finally get a kill but it wouldn't matter cause it simply takes much longer to kill people in ow2 than it did in ow1, by the time some else dies the other person is probably already back. hell even in ow1 this is also an issue you kill the defenders slowly but they simply join the fight much faster than the attackers and have the better positioning so in the end the attackers end up losing the battle of attrition
BRING BACK 2CP (WITH MAP CHANGES)!!!
I would rather have 2cp than that stupid ass mode with 5 points
It sucks so bad, I have no idea how they tought it was a good idea to add it to the game
@@sp-nj9le I do get annoyed with the clash design at times too, but it still never compares to the sluggish crapscape that was 2cp for me. The thing about 2cp was that it required massive teamwork to get through, and we all know what depending on teammates in overwatch is like. Clash at least feels a lot more deathmatchy with more solo potential.
2cp maps were way more interesting despite their flaws. The symmetrical design just feels boring to me. Same thing with push, the only push map I like is Runasapi, and Esperanca is okay, I really don't like NQS or Colosseo. Flashpoint also has a flaw in map design where even though it's cool conceptually with the scale of the maps, most the space is just completely unusued at ranks above metal and is just empty space to move between the five spots where the team fights will always take place
Yes please bring 2CP back
why would anyone would have this shit back?
replace koth with 2cp so this game can be peak with 2cp and push
Hear me out, assault/push hybrid would go crazy
Omg no pls that sounds like hell koth is my favorite game mode