I just got a 4425 and a new, 15 inch touchscreen laptop for my field kit. I'm a TEK fan since 2465 was king, but FINALLY decided try Pico due to undeniable portability, ruggedness, BIG screen on laptop, and that 250 MS memory. The low BW not a problem for what i do in the field. Liking it so far.
That's such great feedback - thank you! I loved my 2465 too, and then I also had the 2430 (digital) as well. The low cost scopes today beat the socks off of the 2430, and this PicoScope is so much more powerful than any of my older scopes. I can't wait to work with it more;)
@@KissAnalog: Eddie, my lab is still graced by my trusty 2467BHD on a Model 3 cart, and like the old dog watching the yard, I'll NEVER let it know that it's past its prime 😉. The Pico is the young whippersnapper.
These Picoscopes are really great! The cheapest model (100$) has two channels and an Arbitrary Wave Generator and although just 8 bits resolution, it has all features you would need. The 12 and 16 bit models are quickly reaching 1000 $, but still economical!
@@KissAnalog there is so much good hear out there now we could not have deemed off when I was learning electronics as a kid. Back then scopes were for the high end lab engineer. Now we have all this great gear available at a fraction of the cost.
Quality test equipment has become so inexpensive, any hobbyist can build a great bench without spending a fortune. After your Hantek video, I've began to learn the USB feature on mine. Another advantage of a USB device is the small footprint, perfect choice if you have limited space. The one problem for me, if my wife finds out I ordered another oscilloscope, it better be big enough to live in!!
@@KissAnalog I left high school with a Post slide rule. My first calculator was a $100 Texas Instrument. That's $600 today!! It could add, subtract, divide, multiply,, amazing!! The slide rule is useless if you don't understand the math, the calculator just gets it done, no matter what!!
Wow that is great. I have a couple of scopes and one is a USB LOTO. I like them for the reasons you listed plus the big display. The pico has really nice software. For the prices they are a steal
Thanks Tron! It will be fun to work with this scope and see how it goes. I do have a LOTO that I've mean to review. I'll have to do that so I can then give it away;)
Bit of a pity it does not use a USB-C rather than that huge USB-B -3 (or whatever the official USB nomenclature is - though ever since they made 'high speed' faster than 'full speed' I've had difficulty taking the official nomenclature seriously!). What are your thoughts about dedicated differential inputs vs separate differential front-end amplifiers vs using two channels and a math function?
Good point John! I think it might be due to the USB-C being relatively new maybe. There are converters for the USB to USB C as far as how it plugs into the computer. I wouldn't doubt that newer releases come with USB-C. Most expensive scopes still come with USB type 2 and not even 3.0 - from what I remember. Regarding the differential inputs, I think there is a definate advantage to dedicated diff probes. They have huge Common Mode rejection for one. Using 2 probes and the math function results in both probes capacitively connected to the chassis ground. I'll have to do an experiment on a video;) Thanks for the idea!
Yes that's was the issue with most Picoscopes and many low cost computer based scopes... 8bit is a bit rough and overdue for upgrade. Wish all the scope manufactures spent R&D increasing the bit rate, improving accessories while reducing costs by design. Just maybe the industry just needs a game changer to speed up progress?.
Thanks Eddie, I have the R&S RTB2004 from a promo sale. It's loaded though it has AWB and does Bode and decoding. Trouble is it's not my favorite scope, I came from Tek scopes that I used at work and I like them better but the price was so good I couldn't pass the R&S by. I don't like the probes either. I looked at the Pico scopes years ago but my problem is getting past the computer interface so I'll be really interested in seeing how it works for you. Does the 4000 you have do decoding and bode? I'm always limiting my bandwidth to 20M, so that isn't a big deal to me but I work a lot with uC's, I2C and SPI, could you show using that with this scope? A lot of scope for the prices they get and they've been around a long time. Thanks, Rob
Thanks for the feedback Rob! I too was a Tek guy, I say was because when I got the latest $$$ Tek scope, I was not impressed! So, I asked for a Keysight after trying the R&S (which I did like). I did like the Keysight. I think they are all so expensive. Great when you can have your employer pay for it;) I also think there are lots of other options, and I'm really interested In learning about them. I think this does all do the decoding. It looks like there's over 20 different protocols. I'll have to work with this and see what it can do;)
I have the Picoscope 5444D MSO, Saleae Logic Pro 16, Linkinstruments 9212, and Analog Discovery 2. Each one has it's purpose but the Picoscope if my overall favorite. The 16bit mode is almost like having a multimeter that can sample at scope frequencies.
I have always looked at USB scopes as a "fine for teaching your kid" but it looks like the technology is getting better. :-) I may be old school but to me is a real book something special, yes it takes up more space is heavier but reading from a tablet vs holding a genuine paper-book is totally different. And so do I feel about dedicated gear with knobs and dials vs screen and mouse. :-)
I always liked the concept of a Pico scope and now that I watched this video, I like them even more. BTW, if they are USB powered you can just unplug the power from your laptop and you can run a cheaper single ended scope model ground isolated from your DUT (Just be ware to use only one ground reference).
What model is it? I have a 16bit model for audio measurements - resolution being more important than bandwidth......Found it, the 4444. I have the 4262. The refresh rate of the USB interface does limit some applications, but it works great with a laptop. The software is good too, as you saw.
I have been using Picoscope for many years, I like that they do not take up space on the table and that the software is not restricted in any way. My most used Picoscope is a 5444B. Another nice detail is that when using them from a battery powered laptop and you do not risk any ground problems. Do you plan on reviewing the Hioki DT4282? Note: Latest version TestController do support it.
I would like to see a FFT comparison with the GW instek, that's one of the advantages of processing in the PC. The only thing I'm not a fan of is having to interact with the mouse and KB(unfortunately it's something I usually do when debugging in my scope remote front panel), I should probably search for a wireless front panel with some encoders and buttons, that sends commands to scopes, if not I should make one myself.
sampling at TS/s ...seriously! ...wow! Like you I do a lot stuff where I need (but do not use) differential probes. I am going to check them out, because a single decent bandwidth dif probe cost $300-500.
Nice Eddie. I like the "ruin the bits" part because I'm a software engineer and... well... bits. They get lost, get ruined, flip, and sometimes go into a third state ( non binary ). hehe. Yeah, I've got a few scopes here as well. I got rid of many of them a few years ago but kept my Tek 2465 and an old Japanese tube one I'm going to restore ( one day, hehe) oh and a Rigol MS5102 that strangely I don't use very much. I mostly use my 2465. Your videos are fun to watch. Thanks Eddie :)
Thanks for your feedback! PicoScopes have a huge buffer which helps them manage deep memory better than about all other bench scopes and PC based scopes. There are other factors than the memory in your PC that manages deep memory. The data has to be captured fast and stored fast so that it can go get more data. So the bus speed is important of course, but that large buffer is the first thing that is required. The PicoScopes do have very deep memories and are so much larger than other scopes that I have used that I don't know how much more I would need;)
@@KissAnalog Yes, we have this problem at work where you can call in on any kind of telephone and enter some DTMF digits to talk to a certain station. We found that some telephones don’t work because the system doesn’t recognize DTMF digits so I need to capture these analog waveforms for maybe 1 or 2 minutes.
Thanks for the great question! As it turns out, I have the one model that this is the most difficult to make work I think. I'll work it out and demo it, but it would be much easier with any other model;) Mine is the all diff probe input.
From Pico's website I see the prices have gone up quite a bit since this review. EditAdd: Wow. Studying their website.. software for Windows (7-8-10, 32b 64b), Linux, MacOS), and an SDK (development kit) for all those, *plus* a beta Raspberry Pi version, for writing your own software.
You're WAY off with the price for high bit-depth - I think you have forgotten about the Owon 3000 series. (e.g XDS3062A - about AU$500 shipped to me in Australia - 12-bit true, 60MHz)
Great point! The Owon is an interesting scope. I picked up one once for the 12/14 bit operation, but sadly the FFT didn't work properly and there was no fix, so they took it back on a return. I do have a new one that I'll review soon;) I think the XDS3062A will only do 12 bit on a single channel and not both channels at the same time - is that true? BTW, Amazon here in the US has it listed for $799 today. I've been waiting for firmware updates to fix the FFT, so hopefully the one I have now is going to be a winner;)
@@KissAnalog not sure about the 12-bits being available on both channels. Re Amazon, I'm looking at this listing, which is the bare bones model (no options): www.amazon.com/Owon-XDS3062A-Channel-Digital-Oscilloscope/dp/B01NAIB9CR Btw, EEVBLOG reviewed one of these series - they absolutely hated the U.I.
This thing should make your explanations of what's going on easier because you can integrate the screen into the video rather than focussing the camera onto the device. Personally, I don't see much difference between 'twiddling knobs' and shifting a mouse - in either case the hardest thing is holding two probes with one hand, two with the other, a thermocouple between teeth and turning the knob with toes!!
Thanks Andrew! I agree, it is actually hard to be sure that there is no dust on the screen, and it sticks out in the camera so badly;) This should make for clear pix. I'm actually very excited to use it and see what it can do. I'll have to compare it to the other scopes;)
YEA THAT'S THE KIND OF THING I NEED, MEANING A SUPER MOBILE USB ORIENTED UNITS SORT OF LIKE A HEAVY DUTY PHONE FORM FACTOR SO: YOU CAN PLUG INTO A CAR LIKE OSB2 OR WHATEVER YOU CAN PLUB INTO A BUILDING AND CHECK OUT ALL THOSE ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS SOLAR SYSTEMS AND EVEN BENCH ELECTRONICS FOR ANALYSIS SCAN ENVIRONMENTS FOR VARIOUS FORMS OF RADIATION ETC. THEN YOU CAN TAKE THAT AND USE MICRO SD CARDS USB CHARGING AND COMMUNICATIONS OR CALL IT INTO A CLOUD OR WHATEVER OR WHEREVER MAYBE A HEAVY DUTY PHONE, WHO KNOWS
I love your videos, you know that, BUT what is with SO MANY ADs interrupting your video? I'm at one third and so far 5 ads by UA-cam!!!????? What the heck!? 4 more ads since 1/3 and just being hit by another ad! I can't do this! I refuse to pay for video without ads - I rather stop watching! I make my videos free and I don't get any $$$ from UA-cam, at least people who make videos should have ads free watching in return! I'll start looking for a different truly free "youtube" service! (Just came back from Virginia, 2 weeks with my newest granddaughter - great time, no TV or youtube at all, so I can stop watching all together! ha ha ha).
Thanks for letting me know about that Tony! Any ad should be skippable. I made an adjustment to see if that helps. Also, my videos are uploaded to Odysee which doesn’t have the ads. odysee.com/@KissAnalog:d/picoscope-open-box-awesome-usb-scope:9
@@jim9930 Thanks for your suggestion, but I don't like to pay every year over and over.... I've donated them money and time to time I plan to do so, but I don't like to be "tapped" with revolving charges over and over again.
I think it was the signal that I was looking at. The deep vertical resolution of this scope picks out signals that an 8 bit can not. So, that might look noisy. We'll see as I use this more to see what it can do.
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9miVG2xT5jY/mqdefault.jpg)
I just got a 4425 and a new, 15 inch touchscreen laptop for my field kit. I'm a TEK fan since 2465 was king, but FINALLY decided try Pico due to undeniable portability, ruggedness, BIG screen on laptop, and that 250 MS memory. The low BW not a problem for what i do in the field. Liking it so far.
That's such great feedback - thank you! I loved my 2465 too, and then I also had the 2430 (digital) as well. The low cost scopes today beat the socks off of the 2430, and this PicoScope is so much more powerful than any of my older scopes. I can't wait to work with it more;)
@@KissAnalog: Eddie, my lab is still graced by my trusty 2467BHD on a Model 3 cart, and like the old dog watching the yard, I'll NEVER let it know that it's past its prime 😉. The Pico is the young whippersnapper.
These Picoscopes are really great! The cheapest model (100$) has two channels and an Arbitrary Wave Generator and although just 8 bits resolution, it has all features you would need. The 12 and 16 bit models are quickly reaching 1000 $, but still economical!
Great points you make here! Even the lower cost 8 bit scope I think can do a hires mode equivalent to 12 bits.
Very nice piece of kit. pico have been around for a long time and always been a good name.
Thank you for this feedback! I think I'll like this scope;)
@@KissAnalog there is so much good hear out there now we could not have deemed off when I was learning electronics as a kid. Back then scopes were for the high end lab engineer. Now we have all this great gear available at a fraction of the cost.
I agree - the equipment today is so great at such a more reasonable cost.
So so cool. Slowly building up to get a good scope. Thanks for the review.
You bet! I'll review a lower cost version soon;)
Quality test equipment has become so inexpensive, any hobbyist can build a great bench without spending a fortune. After your Hantek video, I've began to learn the USB feature on mine. Another advantage of a USB device is the small footprint, perfect choice if you have limited space. The one problem for me, if my wife finds out I ordered another oscilloscope, it better be big enough to live in!!
LOL, I hope my wife doesn't take a look at my bench;)
I agree, equipment is so great these days. A great bench doesn't cost what it used to!
@@KissAnalog I left high school with a Post slide rule. My first calculator was a $100 Texas Instrument. That's $600 today!! It could add, subtract, divide, multiply,, amazing!! The slide rule is useless if you don't understand the math, the calculator just gets it done, no matter what!!
Thank you for the useful information.🙏
I'm glad you found it useful!
Wow that is great. I have a couple of scopes and one is a USB LOTO. I like them for the reasons you listed plus the big display. The pico has really nice software. For the prices they are a steal
Thanks Tron! It will be fun to work with this scope and see how it goes. I do have a LOTO that I've mean to review. I'll have to do that so I can then give it away;)
Good haircut and glad to see you're hitting the gym.
Thanks - appreciate you!
Bit of a pity it does not use a USB-C rather than that huge USB-B -3 (or whatever the official USB nomenclature is - though ever since they made 'high speed' faster than 'full speed' I've had difficulty taking the official nomenclature seriously!).
What are your thoughts about dedicated differential inputs vs separate differential front-end amplifiers vs using two channels and a math function?
Good point John! I think it might be due to the USB-C being relatively new maybe. There are converters for the USB to USB C as far as how it plugs into the computer. I wouldn't doubt that newer releases come with USB-C. Most expensive scopes still come with USB type 2 and not even 3.0 - from what I remember.
Regarding the differential inputs, I think there is a definate advantage to dedicated diff probes. They have huge Common Mode rejection for one. Using 2 probes and the math function results in both probes capacitively connected to the chassis ground. I'll have to do an experiment on a video;) Thanks for the idea!
Yes that's was the issue with most Picoscopes and many low cost computer based scopes... 8bit is a bit rough and overdue for upgrade. Wish all the scope manufactures spent R&D increasing the bit rate, improving accessories while reducing costs by design. Just maybe the industry just needs a game changer to speed up progress?.
Thanks for the feedback! I agree, I think it is time that scope manufacturers at least upgrade to 10 bits.
Hi Eddie, really like your hair cut, it is great for the record breaking temperature we are having. Oh, and I also really like your video.
Thanks so much!
Thanks Eddie,
I have the R&S RTB2004 from a promo sale. It's loaded though it has AWB and does Bode and decoding. Trouble is it's not my favorite scope, I came from Tek scopes that I used at work and I like them better but the price was so good I couldn't pass the R&S by. I don't like the probes either.
I looked at the Pico scopes years ago but my problem is getting past the computer interface so I'll be really interested in seeing how it works for you.
Does the 4000 you have do decoding and bode? I'm always limiting my bandwidth to 20M, so that isn't a big deal to me but I work a lot with uC's, I2C and SPI, could you show using that with this scope? A lot of scope for the prices they get and they've been around a long time.
Thanks,
Rob
Thanks for the feedback Rob! I too was a Tek guy, I say was because when I got the latest $$$ Tek scope, I was not impressed! So, I asked for a Keysight after trying the R&S (which I did like). I did like the Keysight. I think they are all so expensive. Great when you can have your employer pay for it;) I also think there are lots of other options, and I'm really interested In learning about them. I think this does all do the decoding. It looks like there's over 20 different protocols. I'll have to work with this and see what it can do;)
I have the Picoscope 5444D MSO, Saleae Logic Pro 16, Linkinstruments 9212, and Analog Discovery 2. Each one has it's purpose but the Picoscope if my overall favorite. The 16bit mode is almost like having a multimeter that can sample at scope frequencies.
Thanks for this feedback! Yes, I can see that it would provide good resolution for the voltage measurements, probably as good as a 4 1/2 meter.
I have always looked at USB scopes as a "fine for teaching your kid" but it looks like the technology is getting better. :-)
I may be old school but to me is a real book something special, yes it takes up more space is heavier but reading from a tablet vs holding a genuine paper-book is totally different. And so do I feel about dedicated gear with knobs and dials vs screen and mouse. :-)
I agree, I never really gave them much thought. But, now I'm starting to have a different take. I'll have to gt more time with it to see how it goes.
I always liked the concept of a Pico scope and now that I watched this video, I like them even more. BTW, if they are USB powered you can just unplug the power from your laptop and you can run a cheaper single ended scope model ground isolated from your DUT (Just be ware to use only one ground reference).
Thanks Hugo! The version I have has differential inputs, so is great for isolation:)
What model is it? I have a 16bit model for audio measurements - resolution being more important than bandwidth......Found it, the 4444. I have the 4262. The refresh rate of the USB interface does limit some applications, but it works great with a laptop. The software is good too, as you saw.
Yes it is the 4444. It will be interesting to see what it can do;)
Do you like the 4262? I was looking at getting it for restoring and building amps.
I do like the DT4282, it is my favorite meter now;) Here's a link to the meter; amzn.to/3iHMdOG
I have been using Picoscope for many years, I like that they do not take up space on the table and that the software is not restricted in any way. My most used Picoscope is a 5444B. Another nice detail is that when using them from a battery powered laptop and you do not risk any ground problems.
Do you plan on reviewing the Hioki DT4282? Note: Latest version TestController do support it.
Thanks for the feedback! It will be fun to play with this scope. I have done that review on the DT4282. ua-cam.com/video/YvivwYCxrBo/v-deo.html
I did not know you have decided to call the box opening you review.
I would like to see a FFT comparison with the GW instek, that's one of the advantages of processing in the PC.
The only thing I'm not a fan of is having to interact with the mouse and KB(unfortunately it's something I usually do when debugging in my scope remote front panel), I should probably search for a wireless front panel with some encoders and buttons, that sends commands to scopes, if not I should make one myself.
That's a great suggestion! I will compare the spectrum analysis function of both scopes. There should be a clear difference.
sampling at TS/s ...seriously! ...wow!
Like you I do a lot stuff where I need (but do not use) differential probes.
I am going to check them out, because a single decent bandwidth dif probe cost $300-500.
Thanks Steven! The high cost of differential probes makes this 4444 model a winner;)
Great video. That software looks great. I’m thinking of getting a 3000 series
Nice Eddie. I like the "ruin the bits" part because I'm a software engineer and... well... bits. They get lost, get ruined, flip, and sometimes go into a third state ( non binary ). hehe. Yeah, I've got a few scopes here as well. I got rid of many of them a few years ago but kept my Tek 2465 and an old Japanese tube one I'm going to restore ( one day, hehe) oh and a Rigol MS5102 that strangely I don't use very much. I mostly use my 2465. Your videos are fun to watch. Thanks Eddie :)
LOL thanks for the feedback! When I got my Tek 2465 it was my favorite scope and still one of the great CRT/analog scopes;)
I think you can use their SDK and make these scopes stream to your pc and the memory depth is limited to how much space is in your pc
Thanks for your feedback! PicoScopes have a huge buffer which helps them manage deep memory better than about all other bench scopes and PC based scopes. There are other factors than the memory in your PC that manages deep memory. The data has to be captured fast and stored fast so that it can go get more data. So the bus speed is important of course, but that large buffer is the first thing that is required. The PicoScopes do have very deep memories and are so much larger than other scopes that I have used that I don't know how much more I would need;)
@@KissAnalog Yes, we have this problem at work where you can call in on any kind of telephone and enter some DTMF digits to talk to a certain station. We found that some telephones don’t work because the system doesn’t recognize DTMF digits so I need to capture these analog waveforms for maybe 1 or 2 minutes.
Could you demo how to measure bode plot by PicoScope? I think that it is very interested topic.
Thanks for the great question! As it turns out, I have the one model that this is the most difficult to make work I think. I'll work it out and demo it, but it would be much easier with any other model;) Mine is the all diff probe input.
What was the Model number of the scooe you demonstrate here? There are so many...
Model 4444
There are so many options. This is the 4444, and I chose it for the differential inputs and high vertical resolution.
From Pico's website I see the prices have gone up quite a bit since this review.
EditAdd: Wow. Studying their website.. software for Windows (7-8-10, 32b 64b), Linux, MacOS), and an SDK (development kit) for all those, *plus* a beta Raspberry Pi version, for writing your own software.
Andy, do you also design and build or just interested in equipment?
Thanks for the question. I just started another video series: ua-cam.com/video/18neEl0LXNo/v-deo.html
very cool scopes with new design players 😎 like they say cutting edge car design probably will not come out of Detroit. 🥰 thanks a lot.
Thank you! It seems that you are right! PicoScopes are really great new designs!
You're WAY off with the price for high bit-depth - I think you have forgotten about the Owon 3000 series. (e.g XDS3062A - about AU$500 shipped to me in Australia - 12-bit true, 60MHz)
Great point! The Owon is an interesting scope. I picked up one once for the 12/14 bit operation, but sadly the FFT didn't work properly and there was no fix, so they took it back on a return. I do have a new one that I'll review soon;) I think the XDS3062A will only do 12 bit on a single channel and not both channels at the same time - is that true? BTW, Amazon here in the US has it listed for $799 today. I've been waiting for firmware updates to fix the FFT, so hopefully the one I have now is going to be a winner;)
@@KissAnalog not sure about the 12-bits being available on both channels. Re Amazon, I'm looking at this listing, which is the bare bones model (no options): www.amazon.com/Owon-XDS3062A-Channel-Digital-Oscilloscope/dp/B01NAIB9CR
Btw, EEVBLOG reviewed one of these series - they absolutely hated the U.I.
This thing should make your explanations of what's going on easier because you can integrate the screen into the video rather than focussing the camera onto the device. Personally, I don't see much difference between 'twiddling knobs' and shifting a mouse - in either case the hardest thing is holding two probes with one hand, two with the other, a thermocouple between teeth and turning the knob with toes!!
Thanks Andrew! I agree, it is actually hard to be sure that there is no dust on the screen, and it sticks out in the camera so badly;) This should make for clear pix. I'm actually very excited to use it and see what it can do. I'll have to compare it to the other scopes;)
YEA THAT'S THE KIND OF THING I NEED, MEANING A SUPER MOBILE USB ORIENTED UNITS SORT OF LIKE A HEAVY DUTY PHONE FORM FACTOR SO:
YOU CAN PLUG INTO A CAR LIKE OSB2 OR WHATEVER
YOU CAN PLUB INTO A BUILDING AND CHECK OUT ALL THOSE ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS
SOLAR SYSTEMS
AND EVEN BENCH ELECTRONICS FOR ANALYSIS
SCAN ENVIRONMENTS FOR VARIOUS FORMS OF RADIATION
ETC.
THEN YOU CAN TAKE THAT AND USE MICRO SD CARDS USB CHARGING AND COMMUNICATIONS OR CALL IT INTO A CLOUD OR WHATEVER OR WHEREVER
MAYBE A HEAVY DUTY PHONE, WHO KNOWS
Thanks for this feedback! I agree, I think it is even more useful for field work or when you have to go on a plane;)
I love your videos, you know that, BUT what is with SO MANY ADs interrupting your video? I'm at one third and so far 5 ads by UA-cam!!!????? What the heck!? 4 more ads since 1/3 and just being hit by another ad! I can't do this! I refuse to pay for video without ads - I rather stop watching! I make my videos free and I don't get any $$$ from UA-cam, at least people who make videos should have ads free watching in return! I'll start looking for a different truly free "youtube" service! (Just came back from Virginia, 2 weeks with my newest granddaughter - great time, no TV or youtube at all, so I can stop watching all together! ha ha ha).
Adblock for UA-cam is your friend. If you use mobile use the Kiwi browser which supports Adblock also.
Thanks for letting me know about that Tony! Any ad should be skippable. I made an adjustment to see if that helps. Also, my videos are uploaded to Odysee which doesn’t have the ads. odysee.com/@KissAnalog:d/picoscope-open-box-awesome-usb-scope:9
Thanks Tron!
@@KissAnalog I have ad blocker, but this time it did not work. I'll see your other videos and let you know. Have a great day!
@@jim9930 Thanks for your suggestion, but I don't like to pay every year over and over.... I've donated them money and time to time I plan to do so, but I don't like to be "tapped" with revolving charges over and over again.
Noisy display
I think it was the signal that I was looking at. The deep vertical resolution of this scope picks out signals that an 8 bit can not. So, that might look noisy. We'll see as I use this more to see what it can do.