Thank you for sharing your experience with the Orion HCCA subwoofers and comparing them with the FI AUDIO subwoofers. I have always wanted to build my own SPL or maybe even a SQL system and I have always thought that when I decided to start with my build that I would automatically start with the Orion HCCA 15” subwoofers and amplifiers. After seeing this video I have decided that I would be better off not using them after all because of the issues that you have pointed out.
I'm with you on the SQL. I like that chest pounding feeling, but I also like quality of sound. I want to hear every note reproduced accurately. There's a fine balance to get it right. I'm still working on it lol. I think every brand has its issues. To get a higher quality in any area of sound, something has to be sacrificed in the build of the speaker it seems. I'm not an expert, and do not let my experience deter you from any choice that you may dream for. We learn the most when we're truly chasing our dreams. I'm rooting for your build bro!
I don't know if this is a fair comparison but I have had an Orion HCCA 15 black coil for over 10 years now. I just got an fi neo 4.11 15 and the fi by far plays a lot lower and harder. But after 10 years and I'm the second owner of the HCCA, it still works perfectly. I had the coil smoking a little on it years ago, but it still works perfectly fine. I payed $500 for it, in a box tuned to 32hz, and a planet audio 2000 watt amp. I use a mmats 4000.1 now, but am looking for a bigger amp for the fi currently. Both subs are perfect. I prefer the sound of the fi though.
I never had a problem with the coils on the HCCAs. I think the spiders that I was having problems with came from a different manufacturer from the original release of the HCCA black coil version. That's all that I can come up with. I still have 3 new recones for my 12s. I stocked up when the illness hit negate enduring was so scarce, but then I bought the Fi subs, and just put the HCCA stuff on the shelf.
Love your video ❤ great comparison . Xmax is just how far the subwoofer can travel one way before the coil leaves the gap at the pole piece and top plate gap. It doesnt mean the cone cant keep traveling farther 😊
If the coil leaves the magnetic field, let's just hope that it remains aligned when it comes back down lol. Had a L7 that left the gap. It didn't come back hahaha.
Fi audio, Deaf bonce, and B2 audio have all the records rn. Sundown is overrated based on my experience. I have no bias though, I’m running EMF audio subs rn but recently I’ve had a lot of people switch FROM sundown. But it’s like you said, gotta own em, play em, & see what they like to test which sub has best performance
Those HCCA subs are crazy impressive! And been around for a minute! Shoot, I got Xv3 12's (2000 rms) when they first came out and they were $629.00 each! So for $400 and some change ain't bad at all!
After I installed them in my truck the transmission went out about the same time I blew a head gasket lol.. smh. I got to get another truck and rebuild. Since I'm rebuilding, I'm going to try another brand. Nothing wrong with the Fi subs, just want to experience another brand.
That's a very fair comparison between the two speakers, you pointed out the good and bad that both presented. With this knowledge people can watch other reviews and draw their own conclusion.
On the Orion subs where the Allen key connecter wires to the sub right after the connecter where you see the first bit of bare wire put some black rubber speaker glue on the bare wire so before the speaker blows or over heats the coil that bit of rubber glue will burn and you will smell it way before the speaker gets close to even blowing so that you can just lower it after the connecter is the weakest link.
Good stuff. Loce the HCCAs but I have heard their quality control has slipped a lot and their lower end stuff is not so great. Like it a lot but Orion seems to be stagnating. Legendary subs but becoming dated. Heard great things about Fi, seen videos but never heard one in person. Just found you channel, first video here. How did you wind up liking the Fi? I will check your other vids, just curious. Just did my electrical have an 8k and now I need a sub or two. Probably a single sub and Fi is on the list, I would be happy with the Orion but not on my list at the moment.I'm looking real close at the American Bass Godzilla and the VFL Competition. I think xmax is more determined by coil height and the range for motion in the motor more than the basket. The surround and basket are there to accommodate the functional range of the coil/motor.
The movement of the spider in conjunction with the surround determines the xmax of every speaker as they are both connected to the coil, the moving part driving the sound wave. To be honest, the Fi subs had their issue. I'm beginning to believe there is no perfect sub lol, but then I haven't had experience with them all. Currently, I am building with Savard HO series 15 inch subs. I have 4, and I'm still collecting the electrical. I'm gonna run 2 or 3 alternators. I haven't made up my mind yet. I need to test my box and determine the impedance rise so I can ascertain my power needs. Thanks for checking out the video, and stopping by for a comment.
I cooked my Orion spl 15 on a 6k at half ohm. To much power and then I got a recone for 375 which was a deal seeing as they originally go for 500 dollars and then after the recone I played it for 6 months and then after inspecting the sub I seen the spider started detaching from the cone. I’m currently thinking of selling my spl 15 because of the issues with these subs
Never had trouble with my 2 orion 12s pushing 5K plenty of power never clipping had them for 4 years.. everything depends on your set up and how you're running them.. I'm not very gentle on them but I'm also not crazy Blasting music for days just maybe a few minutes or so if I feel like it being super loud most of the time I keep it at mid to loud volume... they bump
Been bumping Orion for over 20 years and never had a problem. My buddy did though, just swapped it out and they called it a bad one and he never had a problem again.
I thought of that too, except I had my 152 on an Orion XTR 2500.1Dz, and it did the same thing. The Dz has a lil overhead dynamically, but it isn't like the sub is seeing that full dynamic power all the time. Very seldom with impedance rise. Not to mention everyone hollers that their Orion subs handle way more than rated.
My 12 hcca crushed for 2 yrs on rated plus, even after stinking multiple times. When i took her apart she looked almost the same as my recone backup. I dont really wanna replace it with my DB sa415 because i like it so much.
I had the HCCAsplx 12.4s and they absolutely slam. And are Giants deff larger than the last gen HCCA 12.4s the splx line is a mean ass Sub. But I run Sundown now and been with em for a while. And to be honest the FI BTL should be a better sub. The BTL will handle more power hands down and it will play lower I do know this I had the older BTL UFO motor subs and those wear almost impossible to blow up.
That Orion was supposed to go to hell under those conditions. I like sealed boxes as well but in order to get low end extension, you've got to throw crazy power at them. Couple that with an undersized box, it's absolutely going to fail because it's compressing air at way too high a level. That's guaranteed to blow out the surround, rip up the spider, or burn the leads. Possibly all of the above. This was user error. If the box was to spec the sub would probably have been fine.
@russellburgan9023 It was clearly stated in the video that the box was too small. It can't be too small and be in spec at the same time. Literally impossible.
I see you missed the poly. However much smaller you think my box was than the factory spec, doesn't account for the excursion it would taken to damage the spiders, or tinsels. The box was neither too small, nor too large as I've heard both statements. The tinsels were too thin, and the spider too brittle. I only had the subs on a 5k amp, so they weren't getting anywhere near rated power, let alone the power it would've taken to burn up the leads. I appreciate your commentary, but as I've stated already, not every failure is user error. I don't care what brand it is, or what brand you promote. Do you enjoy the hobby, or the brand? Have a good one.
Yes I enjoy the hobby and the brand. I ran 2 of the 12's each on their own 2500 XTR Pro. I agree anything can happen. I never had a problem with mine but it is what it is. I destroyed mine in a totally different way. It was absolutely my fault. I reconfigured the box and drove over a steep train track before I anchored the box back down. The ass end of the truck dropped all at once and the subs hit the damn ceiling. Both coils sat on top of the pole, never to work again. Bent everything that could bend. It was so f*cked up, I couldn't even get mad.
I understand how it sux to lose your boom bro. I've been without for a minute myself. I have everything but the alternators to start my next build. My old Ford truck in the video died, and i have a chevy now. Going with triple alts on my next build, and I'm scraping the cash slowly lol. Got four 15 inch Savard HOs this time. Going for a wall build in this 03 Silverado. Going to start with an 8k, and test my impedance rise. Hoping to float some stuff lol.
Had them two 124s on a 5k. The tinsels melted thru the spiders, and then the tinsels broke on one of the subs. Weird part is the same think happened to my 152.
Im running a single orion hcca 124 in a 2 cubic feet ported box tuned to 40hz with an orion xtr 2500.1Dz at 2 ohms for 3 years and i havent had issues with the coil or tensil leads. I think the reason mines has lasted is running it at maybe (estimated or lower than) 2k rms Ive been looking for recones just im case but impossible to find
I've got 3 that I stocked up on. I had 4, but I used 1. Right after I used it, I parked the subs lol. I hope they keep bumping for you bro. Nothing worse than having no bump! I'm fixing to start a new build with four Savard 15 inch HOs. Can't wait to get bumping
Displacement dictates any n every subs possible performance. Or peak should I say. The tinsel leads should always be such as fi has them I mean sandwich them no air flow constant rubbing. And I thank you for the honest true opinion shown as well as told
I'm not an SQ aficionado, but 10s, and 12s very accurately reproduce sub bass frequencies. I never had any issues with sound reproduction, tho with the larger coil, and heavier cone, they're not as efficient as some other subs. They are rated at 86.5 in efficiency so it takes a bit more power to produce spl. It's a trade, but they still accurately reproduce sub bass frequencies.
That is a possibility. I've read recones were their highest selling items. The tinsels, and then the spider always fail. Every one I've ever owned has failed in this way. I'm considering getting some PSI drop ins, and using direct leads. They're actually cheaper than the factory recones by nearly $100.
@@russellburgan9023 let me know how that turns out, I’ve got a HCCA 15 d2 with a copper coil and I can buy a black coil kit but idk if it’s gunna work....
You can make it work as long as you have the right size coil, and spider. I would suggest watching EMF Audio channel. He does a lot of rebuilds from scratch. The process is the same for any sub.
Lol, from what I've seen, Sean is a case, but he knows how to build a speaker. I wanted so badly to get 4 of the new 15" Banhammerv2s, but i just couldn't bring myself to do the pre-order. Idk if it's because I lack the patience to wait, or the trust lol.
Clipping doesnt hurt too much i dont think if you have korean amp and good sub..theres no way i can have any good aboint of bass if the clip light doesnt come on I can have gainonly at 20% when it starts to clip light. I just said i dont care because i need bass otherwose i have negligable amoint on my 3000 watt hooligan. I have a k03. I use to vxf 12 inch skars and i turn gain at 11oclock. The clip light is on but its been like that for 3 minths, no smells
I have two sundown xv3 12s two massive xlr 12s hippos two dd3515 two fi hc 15s and one fi 18 neo 4.11 one psi platform 4 15 Dd first fi second psi third sundown then massive just my opinion and don't put those subwoofers in a sealed enclosure if it is not recommended that's what destroys your subwoofers from over excursion because the suspension is a lot stiffer?
The EBP for both of these subs is well below 70, 51 for the Orion, 59 on the Fi. They're well suited for a sealed enclosure. That's why I bought them. I'm partial to the replication of the sealed type. I know many like ported, but I like sealed. I put these Fi BTL 4s in a 4th order. They did alright. I've moved on to Savard HOs, 15 inch. I got 4 of them. Not bad. Going to do a video soon.
Thank you for your comments. You must not have been listening to the video. I know it is user error, except it isn't my coils man. Go back and watch the video again.
I could use a upgraded recone for my single hcca 12. Double tensile leads would that be good too?. Iv heard of a black coil maybe idk. Sounds like I need to upgrade the spider?. Any advice or direction buddy?
I looked at fixmyspeaker.com They will custom build a recone for these subs. Double tinsel leads would be a great upgrade for this coil. I haven't ever had an issue with these coils. Depending on what kind of enclosure you like to use, you could upgrade the spider, or use a different type of material. These subs have a low EBP, so they work well in a sealed or 4th order enclosure. The spiders aren't very stiff. That's what makes them more suitable for a sealed type enclosure. They are very compliant. If you stiffened the spider, it would make the sub better suited for a ported type. You can use any sub in any enclosure, but depending on the compliance of the spider, they might work better in a ported, or sealed type. The moving mass has a bit to do with the stiffness of the spider as well. The heavier the cone and coil, the stiffer the spider needs to be to maintain good control of the cone's movement, or linearity. If you go to fixmyspeaker, they will ask you what type of enclosure you are planning to use so they can match the build of the recone to that type of enclosure.
If your gonna run HCCA Subs now or in the future... Don't get the ones you got which is last gen.. get the new SPLX series.. you won't have those issues anymore.. and they hit way harder than last.
Yeah, but they also cost 4 times what the regular HCCA's cost!!! The splx's are in a completely different class than the subs on this video so to compare them really is not fair. The 12 inch splx is 1999.99 right now so it's not like if someone has the HCCA they could just choose to get the others instead because they are light years away from each other
That might work. Idk much about 3D printing but I'm guessing there's differences in the filament material? Use the good stuff lol. Or maybe make them a lil bit thicker/ taller.
Lol one more thing since I now made it to the end of video 😂😂.. dude Go to Sundown for real.. get the Z 12"s and I promise you I swear to you.. you'll forget all about those HCCAs and FIs. Dude trust me I'm not just saying this. Iv had all kinds of subs over the years from the early 2000s from the Virtual technologies 15" with the VT box. Then diamond and kicker FI Orion HCCAs mtxs audiobahn lol. Ect.. I mean really iv had em all. I got addicted to subwoofers at a Young age because my dad had two 12" Rockford Fosgate power which I believe was the hex series or something like that the old ones. My mom had the old kickers in her Camaro Z28. My uncle had 4 mtx thunder 7000s back in 1999 or 2001 ish then got the virtual technologies sub n box ect. he recently got back into car audio. N I told him forget kicker n go sundown or Skar for now. which I also had a bunch of Skar subs n still have em in storage I got a zvx 15" V2 and a Vfx 12" sitting in there and a Skar DDX 15". Which I no longer use either of em. And I got a few Sundowns. Sa15"s and SA12"s and Sav1.5 8"s the original Sa8"s. And a Xv1 15" and Xv2 15". And a Zv4 15" and two. Zv5 10"s and two xv2 8"s all in the storage building n garage outside. And when I went to Sundown I got two Sav1 15"s and dude.... Holy shit is my reaction. They hit so damn hard it's unreal they work best in a ported @35hz n 32hz. But can do sealed pretty well as well. But if your doing SPL you gotta do a good ported box regardless if you want that 160 number to pop up. And then I went to X15"s sold one of the original v1s then bought two V2 15"Xs and omg those are monsters my HCCA subs noway in hell could keep up with those. Then I sold one and got the Z series Subs. And those are by far the absolute best subs I have ever owned hands down brother. You can't beat em they are highly reliable they work in anything but ported is absolutely the best. Sundown holds resale value so that's something you may wanna consider... That you can keep your sundown subs and resale em a year later n make 99% of your cash back if they are Sa8"s X8"s X10"s X12x15 x18 and any Z series and nightshades ect.. those Subs absolutely hold their value and always will... And if they discontinued em for some reason the price will sky rocket on em and ppl sale the Zv3 subs from 10 yrs ago for damn near 1200 bucks n more for 10"s.... So it's something you should truly consider.. you'll absolutely love the Z 12"s but they weight alot more then that HCCA. Your looking at near 100 pounds. the box ect says 75 or 80 but it's more. It dwarfs the HCCA and Makes the HCCA look like a cheapo.. you get those z12"s you'll be louder than you ever have. Trust me you can always send em back n resale trade ect..
Lol, thanks for your comments... all of them hahaha. No I'm with you man. I got a few grand right now. I'm looking hard at the Zv6. I've been getting better with WinISD, and I downloaded Bassbox pro 6. Sundown's numbers look good. I got enough room in my daily for 3 cubes sealed, and 5 ported. I like my box musical. I listen to a wide range of tunes. I've been plugging in all kinds of subs into the programs. And so far Sundown has the loudest on paper for sure. I'm holding out for black Friday lol. I uh just can't exactly spend so quickly. I also support an organization that reaches out and feeds the homeless and such. I start cheating my nails if my dollars get low lol. So I'm pinching a few for black Friday. I made a video for the build with the Fi, but I'm extremely depressed about the build. I'm getting closer to editing it and sharing tho. Nothing major, just some build content.
I'm going to get some PSI recones. It's sad that you can get them cheaper than you can the factory recones, but you know the PSI cones are going to be so much better.
I think you're going to burn fi up the same way,,, all the symptoms you have are overpowering the subwoofer,,, over Extrusion,,, in that box you can't hear when to stop turning it up,, and I have from a lot of videos with people that had taramps all have the same problems🤔
Lol, I know. It's always user error. It's all good. My Fi subs are still beating but I'm getting ready to do another build with four 15 inch Savard HO series. My box is spec, and according to my impedance rise, I'm getting way under rated. As far as selling my two 124s, and my three 124 recones, I'm listening.
But if your wanting a better Sub more reliable better sound deeper bass.. get a Sundown Z series.. but your prob aware the new Zv6 is $900 a piece.. not for two but per one... And you won't have to wait on build time.. you order your Sundown sub it'll be at your house in a few days I highly suggest apex or Down4sound. Apex is best for me because I live 3 houses down from Jacob Fuller "owner of Sundown" 's farm. So when I get sundown subs amps ect I get em same day or next.. and you won't be disappointed with the Z series.. it will make both that HCCA and BTL4 look like lil baby subs... The Zv6 weighs over 100 pounds.... Ppl run 4k RMS to em all day.. the xmech of the Z is over 5+ inches the Orion is 4" travel.. that's what you need if you want violent bass.. or you could go with the nightshade 12"s which are absolutely insanity and btw you'll never blow em on that 5k your using.. the nightshade will laugh at that power.. and the HCCA splx can handle around 10k or more on burps. They was designed for SPL mainly.. but ppl run music on em alot now.. but dude forget both fi because of waiting on build time.. and HCCA because of the high over priced parts the HCCA isn't worth it like I said I had em I ran 4 of em at one time back in 2008-2009. Then ended up with 2 SPLX HCCA 12"s which where louder and bigger heavier ect.. but dude for real.. go with Sundown any sundown from the X to the team will eat that HCCA for breakfast lunch and dinner.. just try em if you don't like em you can resale em n get your money back easily.
Too many stupid coil vents or holes cause equal venting basicly pulling in n out the same hot air load from experience and testing by plugging vc coil holes above the spider leaving only the magnet vents dropped coil over 58 f all same solid tone 20 min warm up to soak entire motor tested at 20 and40hz same result added cooling it's very simple common understanding Aite man lol thanks for showing dude.
Dont let the size fool you...that Fi btl is gonna make you plenty happy...
Thank you for sharing your experience with the Orion HCCA subwoofers and comparing them with the FI AUDIO subwoofers. I have always wanted to build my own SPL or maybe even a SQL system and I have always thought that when I decided to start with my build that I would automatically start with the Orion HCCA 15” subwoofers and amplifiers. After seeing this video I have decided that I would be better off not using them after all because of the issues that you have pointed out.
I'm with you on the SQL. I like that chest pounding feeling, but I also like quality of sound. I want to hear every note reproduced accurately. There's a fine balance to get it right. I'm still working on it lol. I think every brand has its issues. To get a higher quality in any area of sound, something has to be sacrificed in the build of the speaker it seems. I'm not an expert, and do not let my experience deter you from any choice that you may dream for. We learn the most when we're truly chasing our dreams. I'm rooting for your build bro!
I don't know if this is a fair comparison but I have had an Orion HCCA 15 black coil for over 10 years now. I just got an fi neo 4.11 15 and the fi by far plays a lot lower and harder. But after 10 years and I'm the second owner of the HCCA, it still works perfectly. I had the coil smoking a little on it years ago, but it still works perfectly fine. I payed $500 for it, in a box tuned to 32hz, and a planet audio 2000 watt amp. I use a mmats 4000.1 now, but am looking for a bigger amp for the fi currently. Both subs are perfect. I prefer the sound of the fi though.
I never had a problem with the coils on the HCCAs. I think the spiders that I was having problems with came from a different manufacturer from the original release of the HCCA black coil version. That's all that I can come up with. I still have 3 new recones for my 12s. I stocked up when the illness hit negate enduring was so scarce, but then I bought the Fi subs, and just put the HCCA stuff on the shelf.
Love your video ❤ great comparison .
Xmax is just how far the subwoofer can travel one way before the coil leaves the gap at the pole piece and top plate gap. It doesnt mean the cone cant keep traveling farther 😊
If the coil leaves the magnetic field, let's just hope that it remains aligned when it comes back down lol. Had a L7 that left the gap. It didn't come back hahaha.
Fi audio, Deaf bonce, and B2 audio have all the records rn. Sundown is overrated based on my experience. I have no bias though, I’m running EMF audio subs rn but recently I’ve had a lot of people switch FROM sundown. But it’s like you said, gotta own em, play em, & see what they like to test which sub has best performance
I've been looking hard at PSI platform 4s too.
@@russellburgan9023 yeah those are good too, I just saw a lot of bias comments and I’m trying to steer you into the proper direction for a consumer.
Those HCCA subs are crazy impressive! And been around for a minute! Shoot, I got Xv3 12's (2000 rms) when they first came out and they were $629.00 each! So for $400 and some change ain't bad at all!
FI subs are beast. You'll be happy.
After I installed them in my truck the transmission went out about the same time I blew a head gasket lol.. smh. I got to get another truck and rebuild. Since I'm rebuilding, I'm going to try another brand. Nothing wrong with the Fi subs, just want to experience another brand.
I love listening to guys loke you who knows their stuff. Bc when i do i find them, i learn new stuff
Can't say I know a lot, but I do try to share what I learn. Ty
That's a very fair comparison between the two speakers, you pointed out the good and bad that both presented. With this knowledge people can watch other reviews and draw their own conclusion.
Thank you bro. I feel better knowing someone got it.
Ready for that SPL build
Good talk, you sure know your stuff man cheers!!
Both great subs but man I’d love to have 2 15” Fi’s
I'm hoping to do a build with some 15s soon.
Nice review man.. i appreciate your attitude as a bass head.🤘.
You do a good job at that I like that nice nice
Ty
Got some new Team v3 12inch fi and these subs are dropping some serious low end. FI, audio all day.
On the Orion subs where the Allen key connecter wires to the sub right after the connecter where you see the first bit of bare wire put some black rubber speaker glue on the bare wire so before the speaker blows or over heats the coil that bit of rubber glue will burn and you will smell it way before the speaker gets close to even blowing so that you can just lower it after the connecter is the weakest link.
Good stuff. Loce the HCCAs but I have heard their quality control has slipped a lot and their lower end stuff is not so great. Like it a lot but Orion seems to be stagnating. Legendary subs but becoming dated. Heard great things about Fi, seen videos but never heard one in person. Just found you channel, first video here. How did you wind up liking the Fi? I will check your other vids, just curious. Just did my electrical have an 8k and now I need a sub or two. Probably a single sub and Fi is on the list, I would be happy with the Orion but not on my list at the moment.I'm looking real close at the American Bass Godzilla and the VFL Competition.
I think xmax is more determined by coil height and the range for motion in the motor more than the basket. The surround and basket are there to accommodate the functional range of the coil/motor.
The movement of the spider in conjunction with the surround determines the xmax of every speaker as they are both connected to the coil, the moving part driving the sound wave. To be honest, the Fi subs had their issue. I'm beginning to believe there is no perfect sub lol, but then I haven't had experience with them all. Currently, I am building with Savard HO series 15 inch subs. I have 4, and I'm still collecting the electrical. I'm gonna run 2 or 3 alternators. I haven't made up my mind yet. I need to test my box and determine the impedance rise so I can ascertain my power needs. Thanks for checking out the video, and stopping by for a comment.
I cooked my Orion spl 15 on a 6k at half ohm. To much power and then I got a recone for 375 which was a deal seeing as they originally go for 500 dollars and then after the recone I played it for 6 months and then after inspecting the sub I seen the spider started detaching from the cone. I’m currently thinking of selling my spl 15 because of the issues with these subs
I'm hoping they redesign the soft parts. These are great subs just need to work out a few kinks.
Hope you can fit them in the box , the Orion sub is a much larger mounting hole than standard 12
That's cause it's front recone insert never removing the frame n mags
Never had trouble with my 2 orion 12s pushing 5K plenty of power never clipping had them for 4 years.. everything depends on your set up and how you're running them.. I'm not very gentle on them but I'm also not crazy Blasting music for days just maybe a few minutes or so if I feel like it being super loud most of the time I keep it at mid to loud volume... they bump
Been bumping Orion for over 20 years and never had a problem. My buddy did though, just swapped it out and they called it a bad one and he never had a problem again.
Thanks for the video. 😎
Sounds like the fullbridge is giving ya issues. Might be a glitch in the signal chain.
I thought of that too, except I had my 152 on an Orion XTR 2500.1Dz, and it did the same thing. The Dz has a lil overhead dynamically, but it isn't like the sub is seeing that full dynamic power all the time. Very seldom with impedance rise. Not to mention everyone hollers that their Orion subs handle way more than rated.
My 12 hcca crushed for 2 yrs on rated plus, even after stinking multiple times. When i took her apart she looked almost the same as my recone backup. I dont really wanna replace it with my DB sa415 because i like it so much.
I had the HCCAsplx 12.4s and they absolutely slam. And are Giants deff larger than the last gen HCCA 12.4s the splx line is a mean ass Sub. But I run Sundown now and been with em for a while. And to be honest the FI BTL should be a better sub. The BTL will handle more power hands down and it will play lower I do know this I had the older BTL UFO motor subs and those wear almost impossible to blow up.
That Orion was supposed to go to hell under those conditions. I like sealed boxes as well but in order to get low end extension, you've got to throw crazy power at them. Couple that with an undersized box, it's absolutely going to fail because it's compressing air at way too high a level. That's guaranteed to blow out the surround, rip up the spider, or burn the leads. Possibly all of the above. This was user error. If the box was to spec the sub would probably have been fine.
The box was spec. Thank you for your input.
@russellburgan9023 It was clearly stated in the video that the box was too small. It can't be too small and be in spec at the same time. Literally impossible.
I see you missed the poly. However much smaller you think my box was than the factory spec, doesn't account for the excursion it would taken to damage the spiders, or tinsels. The box was neither too small, nor too large as I've heard both statements. The tinsels were too thin, and the spider too brittle. I only had the subs on a 5k amp, so they weren't getting anywhere near rated power, let alone the power it would've taken to burn up the leads. I appreciate your commentary, but as I've stated already, not every failure is user error. I don't care what brand it is, or what brand you promote. Do you enjoy the hobby, or the brand? Have a good one.
Yes I enjoy the hobby and the brand. I ran 2 of the 12's each on their own 2500 XTR Pro. I agree anything can happen. I never had a problem with mine but it is what it is. I destroyed mine in a totally different way. It was absolutely my fault. I reconfigured the box and drove over a steep train track before I anchored the box back down. The ass end of the truck dropped all at once and the subs hit the damn ceiling. Both coils sat on top of the pole, never to work again. Bent everything that could bend. It was so f*cked up, I couldn't even get mad.
I understand how it sux to lose your boom bro. I've been without for a minute myself. I have everything but the alternators to start my next build. My old Ford truck in the video died, and i have a chevy now. Going with triple alts on my next build, and I'm scraping the cash slowly lol. Got four 15 inch Savard HOs this time. Going for a wall build in this 03 Silverado. Going to start with an 8k, and test my impedance rise. Hoping to float some stuff lol.
Fi audio is the best
Never had an orion sub blow a tinsel.
Them spiders will tear if you push more than 3k per sub. You got to be sending them bad boys some power.
Had them two 124s on a 5k. The tinsels melted thru the spiders, and then the tinsels broke on one of the subs. Weird part is the same think happened to my 152.
Thinking about getting an Orion HCCA 3000.1Dsplx for my 12s, would love to have those HCCA 12s, maybe one day. I see you are from Kentucky, I am too!
What's up man. Gimme a holler. russellburgan@yahoo.com
You can find me on Facebook too. Same profile pic.
Im running a single orion hcca 124 in a 2 cubic feet ported box tuned to 40hz with an orion xtr 2500.1Dz at 2 ohms for 3 years and i havent had issues with the coil or tensil leads. I think the reason mines has lasted is running it at maybe (estimated or lower than) 2k rms
Ive been looking for recones just im case but impossible to find
I've got 3 that I stocked up on. I had 4, but I used 1. Right after I used it, I parked the subs lol. I hope they keep bumping for you bro. Nothing worse than having no bump! I'm fixing to start a new build with four Savard 15 inch HOs. Can't wait to get bumping
@@russellburgan9023 my 12 hits hard i can't imagen 4 15s
Hoping to at least be able to float a shirt lol. I'm thinking of going with a new JP83 amp. I haven't made my mind up yet.
Displacement dictates any n every subs possible performance. Or peak should I say. The tinsel leads should always be such as fi has them I mean sandwich them no air flow constant rubbing. And I thank you for the honest true opinion shown as well as told
I clip daily
Everyone does, but only a few of us know when to quit lol.
How are the Orion HCCA as in sound quality? I’m debating if I should switch from dual setup Rockford power T1 10s to a single setup Orion HCCA 10.
I'm not an SQ aficionado, but 10s, and 12s very accurately reproduce sub bass frequencies. I never had any issues with sound reproduction, tho with the larger coil, and heavier cone, they're not as efficient as some other subs. They are rated at 86.5 in efficiency so it takes a bit more power to produce spl. It's a trade, but they still accurately reproduce sub bass frequencies.
Orion recone are simple and easy, because the designers knew it would fail easily.
That is a possibility. I've read recones were their highest selling items. The tinsels, and then the spider always fail. Every one I've ever owned has failed in this way. I'm considering getting some PSI drop ins, and using direct leads. They're actually cheaper than the factory recones by nearly $100.
@@russellburgan9023 let me know how that turns out, I’ve got a HCCA 15 d2 with a copper coil and I can buy a black coil kit but idk if it’s gunna work....
You can make it work as long as you have the right size coil, and spider. I would suggest watching EMF Audio channel. He does a lot of rebuilds from scratch. The process is the same for any sub.
@@russellburgan9023 lol funny you mention emf I was talking to him over Instagram last night but thanks for the advise I definitely appreciate it
Lol, from what I've seen, Sean is a case, but he knows how to build a speaker. I wanted so badly to get 4 of the new 15" Banhammerv2s, but i just couldn't bring myself to do the pre-order. Idk if it's because I lack the patience to wait, or the trust lol.
Clipping doesnt hurt too much i dont think if you have korean amp and good sub..theres no way i can have any good aboint of bass if the clip light doesnt come on
I can have gainonly at 20% when it starts to clip light. I just said i dont care because i need bass otherwose i have negligable amoint on my 3000 watt hooligan. I have a k03. I use to vxf 12 inch skars and i turn gain at 11oclock. The clip light is on but its been like that for 3 minths, no smells
I have two sundown xv3 12s two massive xlr 12s hippos two dd3515 two fi hc 15s and one fi 18 neo 4.11 one psi platform 4 15 Dd first fi second psi third sundown then massive just my opinion and don't put those subwoofers in a sealed enclosure if it is not recommended that's what destroys your subwoofers from over excursion because the suspension is a lot stiffer?
The EBP for both of these subs is well below 70, 51 for the Orion, 59 on the Fi. They're well suited for a sealed enclosure. That's why I bought them. I'm partial to the replication of the sealed type. I know many like ported, but I like sealed. I put these Fi BTL 4s in a 4th order. They did alright. I've moved on to Savard HOs, 15 inch. I got 4 of them. Not bad. Going to do a video soon.
I dont have to go out there and own every single damn thing to say mine is better. Beat me!!! That's what I say.
PUTTING OUT DIRTY POWER OR CLIPPING.
Thank you for your comments. You must not have been listening to the video. I know it is user error, except it isn't my coils man. Go back and watch the video again.
I could use a upgraded recone for my single hcca 12. Double tensile leads would that be good too?. Iv heard of a black coil maybe idk. Sounds like I need to upgrade the spider?. Any advice or direction buddy?
I looked at fixmyspeaker.com They will custom build a recone for these subs. Double tinsel leads would be a great upgrade for this coil. I haven't ever had an issue with these coils. Depending on what kind of enclosure you like to use, you could upgrade the spider, or use a different type of material. These subs have a low EBP, so they work well in a sealed or 4th order enclosure. The spiders aren't very stiff. That's what makes them more suitable for a sealed type enclosure. They are very compliant. If you stiffened the spider, it would make the sub better suited for a ported type. You can use any sub in any enclosure, but depending on the compliance of the spider, they might work better in a ported, or sealed type. The moving mass has a bit to do with the stiffness of the spider as well. The heavier the cone and coil, the stiffer the spider needs to be to maintain good control of the cone's movement, or linearity. If you go to fixmyspeaker, they will ask you what type of enclosure you are planning to use so they can match the build of the recone to that type of enclosure.
@@russellburgan9023 Thanks a bunch!!
i want to know the difference in low frequency in sundown vs orion
Me too. I'm saving for 2 new Zv6s now. I almost have enough.
@@russellburgan9023 kool I'm looking forward to hear your views in low frequency
I'm also looking at Deaf Bonce lol. I like the new DB35s too.
If your gonna run HCCA Subs now or in the future... Don't get the ones you got which is last gen.. get the new SPLX series.. you won't have those issues anymore.. and they hit way harder than last.
Yeah, but they also cost 4 times what the regular HCCA's cost!!! The splx's are in a completely different class than the subs on this video so to compare them really is not fair. The 12 inch splx is 1999.99 right now so it's not like if someone has the HCCA they could just choose to get the others instead because they are light years away from each other
@@bearxbunny1835 agree. I saw a 18" for 4900.00 plus 400.00 to ship. I'd have to sell my car for that. Lol
"Hey Russell.! Do you have any orion 15" upper rings surround holders that you're willing to sell, thank you.!
I don't. I only have one 15 inch sub. It's complete in working order with a new recone.
@russellburgan9023
I have 3 15" without the ring🙃I think I'm gonna 3D print them rings, thank you brother 🙏🏽
That might work. Idk much about 3D printing but I'm guessing there's differences in the filament material? Use the good stuff lol. Or maybe make them a lil bit thicker/ taller.
kicker is best
All the old Ricans to buy it all
get a sundown and a deaf bonce... try it if u can afford it...
photovoltaic surplus manager
Lol one more thing since I now made it to the end of video 😂😂.. dude Go to Sundown for real.. get the Z 12"s and I promise you I swear to you.. you'll forget all about those HCCAs and FIs. Dude trust me I'm not just saying this. Iv had all kinds of subs over the years from the early 2000s from the Virtual technologies 15" with the VT box. Then diamond and kicker FI Orion HCCAs mtxs audiobahn lol. Ect.. I mean really iv had em all. I got addicted to subwoofers at a Young age because my dad had two 12" Rockford Fosgate power which I believe was the hex series or something like that the old ones. My mom had the old kickers in her Camaro Z28. My uncle had 4 mtx thunder 7000s back in 1999 or 2001 ish then got the virtual technologies sub n box ect. he recently got back into car audio. N I told him forget kicker n go sundown or Skar for now. which I also had a bunch of Skar subs n still have em in storage I got a zvx 15" V2 and a Vfx 12" sitting in there and a Skar DDX 15". Which I no longer use either of em. And I got a few Sundowns. Sa15"s and SA12"s and Sav1.5 8"s the original Sa8"s. And a Xv1 15" and Xv2 15". And a Zv4 15" and two. Zv5 10"s and two xv2 8"s all in the storage building n garage outside. And when I went to Sundown I got two Sav1 15"s and dude.... Holy shit is my reaction. They hit so damn hard it's unreal they work best in a ported @35hz n 32hz. But can do sealed pretty well as well. But if your doing SPL you gotta do a good ported box regardless if you want that 160 number to pop up. And then I went to X15"s sold one of the original v1s then bought two V2 15"Xs and omg those are monsters my HCCA subs noway in hell could keep up with those. Then I sold one and got the Z series Subs. And those are by far the absolute best subs I have ever owned hands down brother. You can't beat em they are highly reliable they work in anything but ported is absolutely the best. Sundown holds resale value so that's something you may wanna consider... That you can keep your sundown subs and resale em a year later n make 99% of your cash back if they are Sa8"s X8"s X10"s X12x15 x18 and any Z series and nightshades ect.. those Subs absolutely hold their value and always will... And if they discontinued em for some reason the price will sky rocket on em and ppl sale the Zv3 subs from 10 yrs ago for damn near 1200 bucks n more for 10"s.... So it's something you should truly consider.. you'll absolutely love the Z 12"s but they weight alot more then that HCCA. Your looking at near 100 pounds. the box ect says 75 or 80 but it's more. It dwarfs the HCCA and Makes the HCCA look like a cheapo.. you get those z12"s you'll be louder than you ever have. Trust me you can always send em back n resale trade ect..
Lol, thanks for your comments... all of them hahaha. No I'm with you man. I got a few grand right now. I'm looking hard at the Zv6. I've been getting better with WinISD, and I downloaded Bassbox pro 6. Sundown's numbers look good. I got enough room in my daily for 3 cubes sealed, and 5 ported. I like my box musical. I listen to a wide range of tunes. I've been plugging in all kinds of subs into the programs. And so far Sundown has the loudest on paper for sure. I'm holding out for black Friday lol. I uh just can't exactly spend so quickly. I also support an organization that reaches out and feeds the homeless and such. I start cheating my nails if my dollars get low lol. So I'm pinching a few for black Friday. I made a video for the build with the Fi, but I'm extremely depressed about the build. I'm getting closer to editing it and sharing tho. Nothing major, just some build content.
That's cool that you don't like the orions anymore put them on eBay I'll buy them
You want to sell that hcca 15? I would like a 2nd one.
Lol, I probably should, but I just can't seem to let go of it. My wife gets on me, but it's my baby lol
Just let me know man.
Or those 2 12's. Thats what I wanted but couldn't find them so I got a 15. Lol
I'm going to get some PSI recones. It's sad that you can get them cheaper than you can the factory recones, but you know the PSI cones are going to be so much better.
So a psi recone will work in a hcca frame? I definitely want to see you do a video on this lol
I think you're going to burn fi up the same way,,, all the symptoms you have are overpowering the subwoofer,,, over Extrusion,,, in that box you can't hear when to stop turning it up,, and I have from a lot of videos with people that had taramps all have the same problems🤔
Lol, I know. It's always user error. It's all good. My Fi subs are still beating but I'm getting ready to do another build with four 15 inch Savard HO series. My box is spec, and according to my impedance rise, I'm getting way under rated. As far as selling my two 124s, and my three 124 recones, I'm listening.
Sell me them orions
But if your wanting a better Sub more reliable better sound deeper bass.. get a Sundown Z series.. but your prob aware the new Zv6 is $900 a piece.. not for two but per one... And you won't have to wait on build time.. you order your Sundown sub it'll be at your house in a few days I highly suggest apex or Down4sound. Apex is best for me because I live 3 houses down from Jacob Fuller "owner of Sundown" 's farm. So when I get sundown subs amps ect I get em same day or next.. and you won't be disappointed with the Z series.. it will make both that HCCA and BTL4 look like lil baby subs... The Zv6 weighs over 100 pounds.... Ppl run 4k RMS to em all day.. the xmech of the Z is over 5+ inches the Orion is 4" travel.. that's what you need if you want violent bass.. or you could go with the nightshade 12"s which are absolutely insanity and btw you'll never blow em on that 5k your using.. the nightshade will laugh at that power.. and the HCCA splx can handle around 10k or more on burps. They was designed for SPL mainly.. but ppl run music on em alot now.. but dude forget both fi because of waiting on build time.. and HCCA because of the high over priced parts the HCCA isn't worth it like I said I had em I ran 4 of em at one time back in 2008-2009. Then ended up with 2 SPLX HCCA 12"s which where louder and bigger heavier ect.. but dude for real.. go with Sundown any sundown from the X to the team will eat that HCCA for breakfast lunch and dinner.. just try em if you don't like em you can resale em n get your money back easily.
Too many stupid coil vents or holes cause equal venting basicly pulling in n out the same hot air load from experience and testing by plugging vc coil holes above the spider leaving only the magnet vents dropped coil over 58 f all same solid tone 20 min warm up to soak entire motor tested at 20 and40hz same result added cooling it's very simple common understanding Aite man lol thanks for showing dude.