I have something that I have been thinking about and not sure if any UA-camr has talked about it. I know this has nothing to do with this video. It just got me thinking. Let's say that hypothetically a person has "perfect form". But their arm speed maxes out at 50-55 mph. What distance should that person expect to achieve when throwing flat (ignoring the elements)? 200ft? 300ft? 400ft? If a person is caped by arm speed, is far distance (say 400ft ish) really achievable even with "perfect form"? Or is the only way a person with "perfect form" can throw 400ish foot, they have to be able to achieve an arm speed of 60-70 mph. I love all your videos Trebuchet! Very helpful.
Thanks! Pretty sure good form is what gets you good arm speed. All physics cares about is disc speed and spin and release angles… physics doesnt care about form, if that makes sense. So bad form with 60mph release is the same as good form with a 60mph release as far as distance goes…But I guess bad form would be less consistent (and require more effort / injury potential)
LOVE the trebuchet drill! Did it for hours I bet. Clint's swirly bird video hasn't clicked with me yet, but holding the disc upside down for the twirly bird really does help the mind connect. Great stuff as always. Thanks!
Yea Swirly is tough, there is ALOT going on there. I see it as a playground to work on timing... but you still have to know what you are going for and what it feels like when its right.
I've been throwing for about 6 years and have been watching videos (tournaments and instructional) for about 3. This video is the first one that I have seen, or remember seeing, that has mentioned that trebuchet drill. I have seen videos where trebuchets are mentioned, but never actually putting the off-arm on the throwing arm to lock in the feeling. It's almost 2200hrs right now, but when tomorrow comes, I am trying this out with a disc. Thank you for the video. Edit-a word.
@_TDG Well, almost everyone since I started watching has said, "Don't throw with your arm." So I've been mistakingly letting my shoulder collaps because I was trying to remove my arm from the occasion. I took the limp noodle analogy to the MAX. But with bracing the elbow and then using the off arm to push the elbow through, I can really understand how I can use it for the throw without 'just' yanking my arm.
Thank you! I definitely am doing the first one. I guess one problem is I have been doing the briefcase , but actually still reaching back and flattening the disc there, instead of pulling it through while still in briefcase mode. Also, feel like I open my wrist up when I reach back. I really need to work through this.
Try just keeping the disc on the intended release plane the whole time. Pocket, reachback, pocket, release. Should simplify things while you are building the muscle memory.
I’ve become a believer in the briefcase! Ironically, even though the swing plane is technically more complex, I have found that my body autocorrects at the hit. Maybe I’m just weird. 🙂 Strangely, if I attempt to setup on the simple swing plane, my body does weird stuff during the throw. If I focus on pointing the elbow at the target (briefcase), then my body seems to naturally get it right.
I think thats reasonably common. Yea reducing tension in the beginning of the throw can be really important, I think thats kinda what makes it work for you...
ive struggled a lot with tipping my torso and head backwards during extension and then almost flinging my upper weight (head first) over the brace (feels powerful I suppose). I'm still trying to correct this with a straight spine coil, but it leads to a super high reachback that has the elbow driving down into the "elbow orientation" bucket. All sorts of nose issues ensue. I think this is from airbouncing in Ultimate, which has been the hardest thing for me to fix. Feels like I have to choose between RPM's and nose angle
Yea if you have a swing plane issue that gets corrected with a swing plane bandaid change then it can be super hard to decouple the two long enough to make a positive change. I worked with a guy that struggled because when he threw with a decent swing plane the disc would come out 20 degrees nose down. Because his launch was 20 degrees up so it 'evened out'. But when you fix one issue the other part of your muscle memory screws everything up. So you end up having to either throw horribly for a while and trusting that the other issue can get sorted OR fix two issues at once, which is hard. Hop on the Patreon and we'll get you sorted out!
I have something that I have been thinking about and not sure if any UA-camr has talked about it. I know this has nothing to do with this video. It just got me thinking. Let's say that hypothetically a person has "perfect form". But their arm speed maxes out at 50-55 mph. What distance should that person expect to achieve when throwing flat (ignoring the elements)? 200ft? 300ft? 400ft? If a person is caped by arm speed, is far distance (say 400ft ish) really achievable even with "perfect form"? Or is the only way a person with "perfect form" can throw 400ish foot, they have to be able to achieve an arm speed of 60-70 mph. I love all your videos Trebuchet! Very helpful.
Thanks!
Pretty sure good form is what gets you good arm speed. All physics cares about is disc speed and spin and release angles… physics doesnt care about form, if that makes sense.
So bad form with 60mph release is the same as good form with a 60mph release as far as distance goes…But I guess bad form would be less consistent (and require more effort / injury potential)
HOLY CRAP! The light bulb just came on...sadly it took over 40 years of playing disc golf. Thank you!!!
@@tosm-f8q awesome! What clicked?
@@_TDG The horizontal shoulder collapse demonstration. That's exactly what I do and I'd never thought of it or seen it properly illustrated.
LOVE the trebuchet drill! Did it for hours I bet. Clint's swirly bird video hasn't clicked with me yet, but holding the disc upside down for the twirly bird really does help the mind connect. Great stuff as always. Thanks!
Yea Swirly is tough, there is ALOT going on there. I see it as a playground to work on timing... but you still have to know what you are going for and what it feels like when its right.
I've been throwing for about 6 years and have been watching videos (tournaments and instructional) for about 3. This video is the first one that I have seen, or remember seeing, that has mentioned that trebuchet drill. I have seen videos where trebuchets are mentioned, but never actually putting the off-arm on the throwing arm to lock in the feeling. It's almost 2200hrs right now, but when tomorrow comes, I am trying this out with a disc.
Thank you for the video.
Edit-a word.
Awesome! Yea I made that one up... hope it helps!
@_TDG Well, almost everyone since I started watching has said, "Don't throw with your arm." So I've been mistakingly letting my shoulder collaps because I was trying to remove my arm from the occasion. I took the limp noodle analogy to the MAX. But with bracing the elbow and then using the off arm to push the elbow through, I can really understand how I can use it for the throw without 'just' yanking my arm.
@@Christopher-hh8iq yep. Loose is good bit you still need to support and drive the elbow forward.
I have horizontal collapse
You simplify so perfect
Now I hope I can go put it into action, Thank You very much
Thank you! Good luck!
Thank you! I definitely am doing the first one. I guess one problem is I have been doing the briefcase , but actually still reaching back and flattening the disc there, instead of pulling it through while still in briefcase mode. Also, feel like I open my wrist up when I reach back. I really need to work through this.
Try just keeping the disc on the intended release plane the whole time. Pocket, reachback, pocket, release. Should simplify things while you are building the muscle memory.
Very helpful thanks 👍
Thank you!
I’ve become a believer in the briefcase! Ironically, even though the swing plane is technically more complex, I have found that my body autocorrects at the hit. Maybe I’m just weird. 🙂
Strangely, if I attempt to setup on the simple swing plane, my body does weird stuff during the throw. If I focus on pointing the elbow at the target (briefcase), then my body seems to naturally get it right.
I think thats reasonably common.
Yea reducing tension in the beginning of the throw can be really important, I think thats kinda what makes it work for you...
ive struggled a lot with tipping my torso and head backwards during extension and then almost flinging my upper weight (head first) over the brace (feels powerful I suppose). I'm still trying to correct this with a straight spine coil, but it leads to a super high reachback that has the elbow driving down into the "elbow orientation" bucket. All sorts of nose issues ensue. I think this is from airbouncing in Ultimate, which has been the hardest thing for me to fix. Feels like I have to choose between RPM's and nose angle
Yea if you have a swing plane issue that gets corrected with a swing plane bandaid change then it can be super hard to decouple the two long enough to make a positive change.
I worked with a guy that struggled because when he threw with a decent swing plane the disc would come out 20 degrees nose down. Because his launch was 20 degrees up so it 'evened out'. But when you fix one issue the other part of your muscle memory screws everything up.
So you end up having to either throw horribly for a while and trusting that the other issue can get sorted OR fix two issues at once, which is hard.
Hop on the Patreon and we'll get you sorted out!
@@_TDG just joined :D
I feel personally attacked
Ha!
Which one is the biggest issue for you?
@@_TDG I collapse the pocket every single time. My shoulders start rotating before my arm goes through. I will use these drills you showed 👍
@@ToddsDiscGolf Try the trebuchet drill. Should help your shoulder understand how to drive the elbow to keep the pocket supported.