An astute description of how democracies work, or rather, how they fail to work. Not that other political systems have a better track record, of course.
I say more like people and lore channel who just read the same few page of the Star War Wiki, so it end up getting repeated alot. I seen this happen with lot of different lore channel, like they would say stuff that would had the person read the book or saw the primary source it would be different then what actually writen down, or it empathize less important thing and dempathize the more important things.
well master gnost dural recognised the sith genocide so i think geetsly is probably just jedi propaganda (again actual jedi with no ties to the sith empire recognised the atrocity so i think it's pretty safe to assume the jedi did it)
Lol Geets must've forgotten his audience for a moment! Of course we're familiar with Legends, we're followers of the "old ways," its why we keep watching this stuff!
The Jedi Order probably would have never publicly announced that they wanted to commit genocide of the Sith Species, but one must remember that this was the first real encounter of an entire civilization that worship and uses the Dark Side of the Force to such a scale that it couldn’t be ignore. The Sith Empire posed a threat to the Republic and Jedi Order respectively, and the total destruction of the Sith Empire would secure both of their existence in the Galaxy.
@@AaronGuest would have happened regardless light and dark is not yin and yang there can't be any meaningful balance they would always HAVE to fight. It's in their nature like the tale of the scorpion and the frog.
Are you ignoring the whole Rakatan Empire? The sith were not the 1st race to use the dark side of the force. And what you just basically said, is that the Jedi built their legacy on top of a genocide. And let's not forget that at least 1 sith was part of the Jeed'ai, the order that existed before the Jedi. They have no excuse for the genocide. Unless you consider the looting of culture artifacts a good excuse.
@@lookinforgoodshowsz People can get over losing a war, but not attempted genocide man. The Jedi and Sith could've ended in a state of permanent cold war, instead of actual war, one of the reasons the Sith hated them so much was the genocide the Jedi did to them.
The Jedi helped the Republic destroy an entire civilization...yep that is the textbook definition of genocide alright. What Darth Vitiate said was propaganda, but there was turth in what the Republic did to the Sith Empire. Then the Sith Empire returned with a vengeance 1,300 years later, nearly destroying the Republic and the Jedi Order. As of 138 ABY in the Expanded Universe, the Jedi and Sith are still fighting the Religious Crusade against each other.
Thing is, in the comics the Tales of the Jedi, Jedi Master Odan Urr explicitly mentioned the Jedi and the Republic driving the sith extinct. Seems to me that this old lore has been retconned somewhat. Not that I’m complaining. The Jedi committing Genocide against an enslaved race is kind of sort of completely messed up, and against the Light Side of the Force.
Tales of the Jedi has been retconned a lot, for better or worse. A lot of later Old Republic material, tragically, has retconned a lot of ship/character designs to be a bit less extra, for example.
Could a member of the Sith species ever become a Jedi? Hypothetically, if the Jedi found a surviving Sith infant somewhere, could they have trained the child to be a Jedi or would the natural pull to the dark side be too strong?
I don't think so because there are species that are naturally attracted to the Dark Side that the Jedi Order rarely recruited or outright refused to train and the Sith Purebloods would probably be the best example
Its not impossible but its extremely unlikely. Some species pull more to the light side like Ithorians and others more to the dark side like the night sisters. They still had ithorian sith they can still fall to the dark side its just less likely just like a night sister could be a jedi.
Technically genocide also includes destroying culture, so in trying to steal and annihilate Sith culture and religion, it still does still somewhat fit the definition
I’ve always loved Vitiate and think he is better than sidious since he was able to achieve what sidious couldn’t and achieved a empire for so long and he was so OP that he had to be overtaken by many Jedi and Sith to defeat him
It's an abjectly silly comparison to make. The contexts for both aren't even vaguely close to being similar. The circumstances are utterly different. Although I will note that, for the vast majority of Vitiate's Empires existence, it was isolated to a small portion of the galaxy and had zero real contact with the broader galactic civilization. The moment it came into conflict with the Republic it immediately started to crumble from the usual problems Sith Empires suffer.
@@papapalps2415 That's not true. If the Emperor had not taken Revan captive all those centuries before the empire's return to known space then the Republic would have ceased to exist.
@@loremasterxp3635 ....Because the Republic had just gone through not one (Great Sith War, not two (Mandalorian Wars), but THREE (Jedi Civil War) galaxy spanning conflicts in a row, within the span of a few decades. An invasion by Vitiate after KOTOR 2 would have been a literal walkover. It isn't a fair fight.
To be fair the Jedi may not have tried to exerminate the sith purebloods but is severing their connection to the force and bombarded their homes really okay?
There was also the Lost Tribe of the Sith on Kesh, who built their own culture that lasted for thousands of years before it threatened the galaxy. They committed a genocide of their own on their Pureblood and Massassi members.
the funniest thing is that I checked the Star Wars galaxy map and Dromund Kaas is closer to Korriban than Ziost. You are telling me the Sith went and hid there and got away with it for such a long time until the events of TOR(mmo) after Kotor 1 and 2.
Honestly I feel like this video was done by jedi, screaming sith women children as they are slaugthered in their own homes by jedi it was something like this lord Scourge said, i guess saying there was no genocide helps jedi sleep better ? sith lords are psychopats and monsters but not sith species,don't tell me that there was no sith genocide and it was just fighters and sith lords that were not even killed just stripped of their powers thats pretty sleazy interpretation.
If this language was used in reference to actual, historical, atrocites, so many red flags would be waved. I dare say, really close to Holocaust denial.
2:22 Naga Sadaou: I am far from doing something so cowardly. I prefer tactical retreat to preserve knowledge. Star Wars Fans: Sure buddy, whatever you say.
So... while in fact the Sith species were never wiped out in a single conflict, the Jedi believed they were (Great Hyper-space War & Seventh Battle of Ruusan) and the surviving Sith groups each believed they were the last... eh, close enough to call it genocide, by order of the Republic aided by Jedi combatants. Thank you for your work, Geetsly's - its good to clean up our knowledge and understanding.
How is naga sadow’s group more important than vitiate’s group? Yeah he contributed to exar Kun, but even if you give sadow FULL credit for exar kun (which you shouldn’t), I still think vitiate’s sith empire had more of an impact. They literally sacked coruscant. The republic would have fallen to the sith empire had vitiate not been SO power hungry. Vitiate’s group was the closest besides sidious to conquering the galaxy.
Because until Sadow, the Jedi, the Republic and few outside of Sith controlled space even knew of the Sith, let alone how much of a threat they posed. It’s Sadow’s actions which had the biggest overall impact on the history of the Sith. Vs Jedi / Republic dynamic which shaped the galaxy. It is key to understanding the 2nd Schism and the origins of the Sith’s rivalry and their desire for revenge. And it is this story that made it over into canon because if that. Where as, you could almost toss SWTOR and not miss anything. Except for question of who were the “True Sith” that provoked the Neo-Mandalorians to invade the Republic and the secret Sith Emperor that converted Revan and Malek. (You know, KotOR and SWTOR stuff). Vitiate was just another Sith warlord leading a Sith invasion force comprising of a Sith faction as a result of that Schism. And it would need to be resolved in similar fashion as every other Sith v Jedi/Republic conflict of the Old Republic era. Which is with the near eradication of the Sith. Perhaps if it wasn’t for the Disney sell a year after its release, that might have been a bit different.
Exar Kun walked into Coruscant, mind-controlled the entire Senate, said that the Republic was irrelevant, and walked out. He also forced the Jedi Order to reform itself for the first time since their foundation, and was the main driver behind the transition of the Sith from a species to an ideology, meaning he's basically responsible for the New Sith Wars.
@@samueldimmock694 It was already an ideology. And the only living Sith that Kun encountered were the Massassi sub species. Revan and Malik were practically Exar and Ulik Qel-Droma come again as opposed the ‘True’ Sith (as Kreia call them), which at this point, the Republic believes to be extinct. But the ideological changes that the Jedi Order went through during this greater 2nd Schism era is notable. They were becoming warrior monks. 15 to 20 thousand years of balance, up turned by the Jen’jidai who became Sith Lords. Then for the next 7,000 years the Jedi could hardly get through a millennia without some major conflict between the Lightside and the Darkside leading to a galaxy wide war.
@@eds1942 The Sith were a species and a culture, not an ideology, unless you're going to argue that it was actually Freedon Nadd who made that transition and Exar Kun just spread it. What I'm talking about is the fact that most of Exar Kun's Force-sensitive followers were recruited directly from the Jedi Order, something none of the previous Sith factions had done. I also don't think that he called his non-Force-sensitive followers (or the Krath) Sith, reserving that title for the trained Force-users and them alone. In short, he turned the Sith from a species and culture that used and worshipped the Dark Side of the Force to the Dark Side equivalent of the Jedi, complete with their remarkable ability to recover from near-total extinction because some guy taught another guy, or in the case of Darth Ruin, some Jedi found a few holocrons and became obsessed.
@@samueldimmock694 Yeah. You have to look back to the origin of the 2nd schism. And the fact that Kun’s Sith had no direct connection with the Sith species and died without much of an impact on Sith society or the true Sith Empire. Rather he had great impact on the Jedi Order and the Republic. 7,000bby, A group of Jedi, calling themselves the Jen’jidai, fell to the Darkside, split with the Order and started the Hundred Year Darkness. When they were defeated, they were demilitarized and exiled into the Unknown Regions and eventually landed on Korriban where they encountered the Sith species. The Jen’jidai adapted the Sith peoples philosophy into their own and became the Dark Lords of the Sith, the counter Force philosophical order to the Jedi. After the Sith Empire were defeated at the end of the Great Hyperspace War around 5,000bby, the survivors (mixed races) stayed hidden for most of the next two millennia. Exar Kun and Ulik Qel Droma just followed in the footsteps of Freedon Nadd and the Krath. Beyond the Massassi, they had no connection with the real Sith Empire or Sith peoples or their race. Which is a point of difference between them and Revan and Malek. When both duos had their day around 4,000bby. And the SWTOR happened and the true Sith Empire revealed itself and attacked the Republic and the Jedi Order. At some point the Sith race went extinct. But, the Sith darksider philosophy survived in various forms, most notably, tombs, relics, manuscripts and holocrons. And then at the end of the 4th Schism, after the Battle of Ruusan at around 1,000bby, Bane came up with his Rule of Two which was of a hodgepodge of the above, with Revan’s holocron providing a key source of inspiration. ‘Book of Sith’ covers a lot of this. And since it’s one of the few Legends books in reprint and to hold the Disney logo, I still hold it up as at least semi-canon or in-canon lore. Anyway. It was a more complicated transition than what you are saying. Kun was just another point of reference and the Sith race just died out.
Oh, I would definitely love to hear about the Sorcerers of Tund! I wonder how they managed to survived and even thrived by the time of the Clones Wars and the Galactic Empire. Heck, did they even interact with the First Order and the Third Republic at all?
@@lerneanlion In cannon they seem have in the High republic era have meeting and a few celebartions with other force groups including jedi at Jeddah city
Freedom Nadd a fallen Jedi was the one to slay Naga Sadow who was in turn slain by another fallen jedi Exur Kun who then used the empire that had been slowly built up to wage a war on the Galactic Republic. He lost. This happened about forty odd years or so before Revan & Malak. Edit: Oh & Nathema used to be called Medriaas before it was destroyed by Tenebrae (Vitiate) & was ruled by his father before Tenebrae killed him.
Ok, we'll add an extra detail, The Republic and The jedi commited CULTURAL genocide along with stealing their artifacts and putting them in museums or behind closed doors. Still genocide, still not good.
Well let's look at it like this. Sith aren't exactly a species, neither are jedi or us humans. This is all a state of mind. So yeah cultural genocide still works
The Jedi and Republic were also responsible for the first Mandalorian Cataclysm(also known as the Mandalorian Excision or in Mandalorian the Dral'Han aka the Annihilation). In which Republic fleets with some Jedi present bombed the once earth like planet of Mandalore(alongside other planets like Concord Dawn, Ordo, and Fenel) into a desert world and killed countless numbers of Mandalorians. In legends Mandalore would eventually have it's ecology recover by the time of the Empire, but in canon that fate is up in the air.
@@ghostface4404 Well, that's not how the word is used in a lot of Star Wars media, including this one. Which is good, because by that definition, the Dark Side is not inherently evil (though it is not inherently good, either), and a lot of Star Wars media treats the Dark Side as if it were evil. Oftentimes, the Dark Side is defined by it being evil: murdering people is a Dark Side act because it's evil; Dark Side organizations are fond of slavery because slavery is evil; Dark Side magic involves causing great suffering and/or death, either as the intended effect or as a necessary component of some powerful ritual, because that's what evil magic looks like.... So when I said that Sith culture was "full of the Dark Side," I meant that selfishness and treachery were seen as virtues and compassion and self-restraint as vices, their religion involved large amounts of "human" sacrifice (though other sentient species were often used), slavery and oppression were their default approach to encountering new civilizations, and things like that. They were not characterized by a wholesale embrace of emotions, as any selfless emotions were seen as weakness and thus unforgivable.
Well, an important distinction here is that a lot of the old Siths power came from talismans imbued with the force. Baneite Sith arguably have more raw power.
@@feliciastaldotter5168 idk... sidious was able to use force storm a power I've never seen older Sith use. I've also never seen older Sith create lightning force fields either.
I really like the idea of Sith survivors forming remote, isolated communities. What kind of Sith created them? How would their societies and attitudes change over time? Given the length of time and the kinds of Sith that would survive post-Hyperspace war, you could have very different societies evolving.
Realistically speaking it depends base on Atlas who washes the whole genocide part who inspired the video which is still is bad because if you read in between lines it seems more like the army melted and the roles of who made the incident got split the republic killed the sith while the jedi... destroyed their culture so cultural genocide WHICH IS WORSE... so... we have two cannons who are pretty much the same with another just saying who did what so in my opinion there is 2 ways it ended first the sith are in isolated societies at the edges of the galaxy or in the unknown regions probably after they realised (probably after the whole cold war period of the old republic and the constant back forward of the sith empires) someone or a group having brains probably realised it was hide or die so now sith in the modern times aka luke skywalker times probably live in isolated pockets in fear of the outside world and dreading if any exploratory ships appear others probably went stone age and live in primitive terms probably their dark side connection evaporating and then there is the BOLD planners someone realised that shit was going down and instead of hiding in a galaxy they couldn't rule decided to say fuck it and crewded ships with sith purebloods and left the galaxy trying the best Yunzan vong style.
Sith who chose the Light Side of the Force BUT they’re still devout followers of the Sith Code & every other aspect; they craved power & the reason they’ve saved lives is to gain more power…
how do you follow the will of the force while at the same time belive in a doctrine that preaches that only your will is what matters. if you crave power you have already abandoned "the light" and will be unstable until you either fall to the dark side or reestablish yourself to the light. the sith code and philosophy does not have any light in it. it says that victory is won through passion, this is antithethical to any kind of light. even the sith who fell to the light while not becoming jedi abandoned sith teachings and the code because you cannot have both
Ah, well, @@feliciastaldotter5168, let me Clarify. First of all, you’re basing this off of the teachings that go beyond their codes (the Jedi Code & the Sith Code). Most, if not all Sith, are Murderous & will kill anybody who disagrees; they’ll sacrifice slaves just to get whatever they want. The ‘light sided’ Sith I’m referring to refrains from violence as much as possible, doesn’t sacrifice slaves, nor anything like that; believes in attaining power through their own efforts & only uses slaves for more laborious tasks, yet treats slaves more like serfs (actual terminology of earth’s history). Does go against the force, but doesn’t do evil things, especially when Peaceful methods are more effective; when Murderous Sith picks a fight, the Light Sided Sith won’t back down; they’ll lay claim to the vanquished & will keep their concubines (okay, so this’ll probably be the most Sith thing the light sided Sith would do: rape; doesn’t murder any of his conquests though)…
@@nickvinsable3798 Before I go into some HEAVY in-depth discourse, I would like to point out that this will be a long post. TL;DR at the bottom. Onto the subject at hand: Some of what Felicia has stated is true. (Although 'the will of the force' does not necessarily mean the will of the light. 'The will of the force' does not belong to the light alone nor the dark. It is inherently unknowable and to think that Jedi, Sith, or anyone really can 'know' what it wants is simply a fallacy. More on that Later.) A Sith who 'chose the Light-side of the force', 'craves power', and 'follows the Sith-code in every other aspect...but the only reason they save lives is to gain more power', is still Sith in nature (Dark-side in nature). If the motive of saving lives isn't altruistic/selfless, it is inherently against 'the Light'. That would just be a form of manipulation; this is one of the core Tenants of Sith Doctrine and philosophy. You are essentially saving people so that they may be of some use to you later, whether it be immediate or for long-term gain. I'd say that if this hypothetical person did not follow/believe in the Sith Code as they 'interpret' it to be, they would verge on Neutral to Neutral-Dark Force Wielder. (On another tangent: I refuse to use terms like 'DarkJedi' or 'Grey Jedi/Sith' since neither of them follow/believe their respective codes, therefore cease to be Sith and/or Jedi.) Alternatively, if by 'a Sith that has chosen the light' you mean they have chosen to use specific abilities of the light-side (such as it's superior healing abilities), I would still say that the motives in doing so itself are still inherently Sith in nature albeit unorthodox. If the idea is to learn from your enemy so that you may then conquer your enemy, it is still very in line with the ideals of the Sith. It is to benefit you and you alone and not to be used to help others. ---- Now as for the rest of your response: What you're describing to me sounds like a 'Pragmatist Sith'. Pragmatist Sith are sill self-centered, however, they act in a way, or make decisions based on what is in the greatest interest of their factions. This often is to the benefit of themselves primarily. Usually the factions goals and their goals are one in the same. The more indispensable you prove yourself to be, the more power your will attain. Motivation is simple: if your faction defeats the enemy, then life is better for you and your civilization. It's about efficiency. What course of action can get me (and my faction) the most amount of power/resources in the quickest, most efficient way possible. That doesn't mean they'll shy away from violence. Far from it, actually. If killing is the quickest route to an easy victory, a Pragmatist Sith will absolutely resort to violence. They just don't use it as a crutch. For instance: instead of wasting resources killing an entire planet to conquer it, a Pragmatist Sith would find other means to do so. After all, an all-out assault is costly. They can manipulate the leadership, orchestrate and frame the opposing faction. Then convince the inhabitance that they have no other allies but the Sith, and install a puppet government. Therefore, the people and it's government willingly chose Imperial occupation over it's 'perceived enemy' as the better of two evils. Their resources are then for the taking without much bloodshed on imperial side (which is all they care about, they need all the resources they can get). 'Doesn't do evil things,' This is very vague (Everything you have mentioned that they do thus far is by most standards 'evil').
A Pragmatist Sith does not care about how many enemies he kills, he cares about the results. With this in mind, you have to look at situations logically, economically, and strategically. They see killing as a tool, as well as diplomacy and maintaining an image of nobility. Basically becoming well versed in Machiavellian philosophy and master-slave morality of Nietzsche. Imagine if Thrawn was a Sith. That's the best way I can explain it. -------- "There are as many Sith philosophies as there are Sith." - Sith Inqusitor, SWTOR There are so many different interpretations of the Sith Code and it's doctrine (especially between different eras of Sith), that to generalize it isn't entirely accurate. Traditional Sith are what you describe as 'Murderous sith'. They are the kind of Sith that take the code at face value and refuse to deviate from it even to the benefit to the Sith as a whole. They are sadistic by all means of the word and will murder on any slightest offense without any provocation. This includes allies, or potential allies. They will see everything as a tool to be used and then discarded. They will betray ones allies at any given chance if it is beneficial to them to do so. "Killing without reason of gain was a petty pleasure of sadistic fools"- Darth Bane Making too many enemies can be the death of any Sith. The problem within this line of thinking is that realistically this is unsustainable. If every Sith acted this irrationally and acted on every miniscule whim- any sort of Empire or organization cannot possibly exist for too long. Fortunately, not every Sith behaves this way. ------ TL;DR: What you describe isn't 'Light-side Sith'. There is no such thing as a Sith that can be light-side. Rather, this is called a Pragmatist Sith. They see killing as a tool, as well as diplomacy and maintaining an image of nobility (specifically for selfish-reasons or political gain). They are well versed in Machiavellian philosophy and master-slave morality of Nietzsche. Imagine if Thrawn was a Sith. That's the best way I can explain it. ----- I can talk about this all day. Feel free to ask any questions. (Also, if there are any grammatical/spelling errors I will find them eventually. I'm not re reading this a 7th time if I can help it.)
Yeah, that reads about right, @@cathrsys9584. The only other reason I’d refer to this Particular Sith, what you call a Pragmatic Sith, is that he/she shows no signs of corruption, as certain other Sith have shown (i.e. those yellow Sith eyes & such)…
@@nickvinsable3798 Late Reply. The DarkSide Corrupts even Pragmatic Sith. Usage and the extent of its affects varies on a case by case basis. You'll have Sith like Lana Beniko that just have the Sith eyes or you'll have Sith like Darth Krovos that are PureBlood, and because of that the DarkSide barely has any affect on their appearance due to their natural affinity for it. But to have no corruption at all as a Sith and remain in the Sith (as an organization) would be impossible. This can either mean 2 things: 1. The Sith is using some sort of Ritual that covers up any deformities. 2. The Person is balanced. Meaning they must have extreme mastery and consentration over both sides of the force to keep themselves from swaying either way. Too much and any sort of killing or anger would cause Sith eyes. Too little and any Sith worth their title could sense them kilometers away. If they were good enough they could cloak themselves but that is very rare and very difficult among high powered force wielders. Logically, if they were not a Rogue Sith or just not aligned to any faction, they'd be exterminated. (Out of Curiosity, to what character are you referring to? Is this a personal character, oc?)
Well, in the end, I suppose the fault ultimately lies in the Republic. Maybe they didn't set out with the idea of outright exterminating the Sith, but...they still kicked the dog when it was down, and the dog fought till the end. Not their finest moment, even if the Sith didn't really handle it as well as they could have.
The lies told concerning the Sith were many! The biggest lie of all was that the Sith had been 'wiped out'. They went to ground so well, the Jedi declared them extinct. The second biggest lie was that the Sith needed to be wiped out in the first place. Where is the Balance if only Light-side are allowed to live? Third thru fifth biggest lies are mostly administrative. Sixth biggest lie is purely ornamental, serving no known purpose, and you wouldn't get it anyway...
Depends if the Sith didn’t focus on infighting and backstabbing each other always they could have triumphed over the Jedi order but their hubris and arrogance was their downfall
The sith were going to fall at least In the sense of the empire after their failure just like any power vacuum and probably even worse with how power hungry sith are. The republic pushed the genocide aspect more the jedi, seeing as how the jedi didn't kill. But the stripping connection to the force and stripping of sith artifacts especially if they aren't connected to the force.
Well actually the Sith Empire would have destroyed the Republic upon their return to known space but unbeknownst to them (& the empire) Revan influenced the Emperor to seek peace.
@@davidordaz5251 how did he influence the sith emperor to not attack, it seems to me that, not always but majority of the time the sith seem the be the aggressor and make the first move, so it's really a suprise to hear they were peaceful.
the Dark Jedi forcibly integrated into and ruled over the Sith Purebloods, if anything this seems like a greater crime than the mutual combat engaged in between the proper Jedi Order and the Sith Lords....
Nah, my dude. Just because some factions of true blood sith survived doesn't mean that the Jedi didn't condone and then actively participate in what is literally called the Sith Holocaust. And you might come back at me by citing some propaganda such as "...the Sith no longer posed a threat to the Republic, but the Supreme Chancellor was unsatisfied. Jedi and Republic forces were sent to Korriban and other Sith planets to ensure no remnants of the Sith Empire remained", as definitive proof of Vitiate's propaganda, but that was actually said by Jedi Historian Gnost-Dural in his commentary of the holocaust. I'm interested to know how you square that as in-universe sith propaganda. I think your habit of whitewashing the jedi isn't just the more simplistic view of in-universe history, but that it actively reduces the nuance of the expanded universe and forces what should be an artistic medium of exploring real world issues in depth into a story frame consisting of a false dichotomy between good and evil.
...to continue, a good way of exploring how events unfold in-universe is to superimpose them on real world events. Imagine, that if after the allies defeated the axis powers in WW2, that instead of offering terms of surrender the allies imposed a counter-invasion that targeted axis power populations and carried out the suppression of these defeated peoples to such an extent that only pockets of these civilizations managed to escape and survive in exile leaving absolutely no surviving members of those civilizations in the conquered territories. I'm just saying it's difficult to idolize that sort of behavior and that maybe a more gritty examination of the philosophies of war, power, and religions, shows the SW medium more respect than the typical 'jedi good, sith bad' paradigm.
Given Gnost-dural, a Jedi Master, was the one who catalogued and detailed the Republic's genocide of the Sith species, yes. They did in fact commit genocide. It was not propaganda.
I freaking love this channel you guys give awesomely great insight into the Star Wars universe so I personally thank you for this because I love the Star Wars universe!!
Yep as mentioned in the video the Sorcerers of Tund are one such group of Sith Purebloods that survived and even thrived well into the reign of the Galactic Empire.
Listen dude, I mean no offense and I absolutely love your vedios, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this, it's similar to your Grey Jedi vedio, while yes the Sith did strike first they were manipulated into doing so believing that they would've been invaded otherwise, it was kill or be killed from their perspective, and the Sith Holocaust only further instilled this deep rooted fear. And as for the Grey Jedi vedio, in the Revan novel Revan was described as using the Force in its purest form when he used both sides in tandem, its like yang and tang, one cannot exist without the other, its like a quote I once read "Without the light your just staring into an endless abyss, and without the dark you'll just get blinded by the light, you need to find a balance." The Force existed long before the Jedi and Sith decided it into light and dark and I think that quote represents it perfectly.
Ultimately, sith purebloods 'died out' due to interbreeding with humans. The compatibility was as such that births tended to favor human over sith traits over time. Leaving sith bloodlines but no true sith.
One thing of jedi I been realizing from videos saying the jedi were wrong I realize the jedi are not keepers of the peace but rather a paramilitary organization of the republic Also I been playing fallout games more particularly new vegas and not only am I realizing what Ron Perlman means with saying war...war never changes and how it applies in star wars but a quote by mr house on his view of the brotherhood of steel kinda makes me think of the jedi by changing it slightly on jedi I have to say they are ridiculous because they galavant the galaxy pretending to be the knight of yore atleast they did until order 66 game out realizing ideological purity and the force are no match when outnumbered 15:1 Basically what I'm really saying is fallout and reality seems to make more sense of sith and jedi as in they are really just factions vying for power and in the end war...war never changes
So what is your source for this because when I looked up sith holocoaust the wiki didnt say anything about Jedi not executing captured prisoners or takeing the force away from a prisoners. And isnt calling it the sith holocost kind of imply it was a genocide.
Glad to hear the story of swtor explained properly instead of guessing at what the truth was ( though I did aquire the lore master title in swtor for all of my efforts, which is nice)
@@gavinsmith9871 Because some people take villain stanning to absurd degrees (or seem to genuinely believe Dooku and Palpatine's statements, even though both are sociopathic liars)
@@lotrofan5 or maybe because the jedi have always been hypocrites, yes the sith order is worse obviously but you'd be surprised by how many atrocities the jedi committed (killing the true mandalorians, supporting the glassing of mandalore, killing a bunch of kaleesh slaves, attacking the legions of lettow, not to mention all the child abductions and brainwashing). Basically kreia was right the force is evil and jedi and sith are just pawns for htis malevolent force
@@revanruler6404 First of all, Kreia is a lying, nihilistic sociopath who deliberately strings you along in her quest for revenge against her two students/former allies. Second, the Jedi were not the aggressors at Galidraan. The Death Watch aligned governor framed Jango and his men for the wholesale slaughter of civilians, and when the Jedi came to investigate and bade Jango lay down his weapons and explain what was going on, Jango instead opened fire, forcing Dooku and the rest of the response team to defend themselves. Third, it was the Mandalorian Civil Wars that ravaged Mandalore, not the Order. The Jedi were the ones who helped the Mandalorians rebuild. Fourth: THEY DO NOT TAKE IN YOUNGSTERS WITHOUT PARENTAL PERMISSION. That is well established in both continuities, in addition to the fact they defer to the judgement of local Force traditions (if one exists). Fifth, the Legions of Lettow were a conquering army that were poised to spread their teachings to the Jedi and the galaxy at large by force. The Republic and the Order acted in self-defense.
Genocide is genocide, doesn’t matter if the Jedi or Republic participate in that act. They still committed genocide on another species. The Jedi are not saviors of the galaxy or of the Light, the Sith are not monsters and champions of the Dark. Both are flawed organizational entities. Personally I believe the Sith philosophy is the correct one, “the strong rule because they are the most dominant and powerful, the weak serve the will of the strong until they themselves can usurp those in positions of power.” Its no different than the philosophy of survival in my opinion.
True or not it wouldn't be to far fetched to say that the Jedi committed genocide against considering their opinion on the Darkside and how the Jedi often dragged the Republic into wars with the Sith and their Empires or anything that resembled one.
*Pulls pin on hand grenade* Tell me the history of Exegol and its relationship to the ancient sith. *Rolls grenade under table before walking out and locking the door*
Love how Fate of the Jedi just doesn’t exist in your legends world. :) Actually not as salty as I sound, well done video although I did kind of enjoy the Lost Tribe on Kesh or whatever the hell.
I don't know. Sound like pro Jedi propaganda to me. So the Sith who were captured were stripped of the force in order to "make them harmless". Ignoring the ethical implications of doing such a thing, how is it that they naturally died off. They lost their connection to the force, but they were still alive. Ether the place the survivors where being kept lacked the means to keep them alive (starvation etc) or stripping them of the force did something to their health. And unless the procedure made them infertile, their children should have been force sensitive. Unless the Jedi also stripped the force from the children and routinely did the same to any newly born children which is it's own form of f'ed up. Regardless of whether the Jedi actively committed genocide, their action still caused it ether through apathy or malicious oppression.
Disagree. Jedi were morally corrupt. The purebloods just interbred with the human/sith hybrids. But that doesn't negate the fact the Jedi committed suicide
I think that the Jedi were only partially responsible for the extinction of the original Sith…after the Sith’s very way of viewing the Dark side of the Force is literally self destructive by nature. I say the Sith’s way and not the Dark side in general is because Star Wars has shown groups of Force users like the Night sisters of Dathomir that can use the Dark Side’s powers and not give to the corrupting nature of the Dark Side (not fully anyway) 11:17
Just another atrocity I committed by the blood thirsty jedi , the only thing that they loved more than religiously persecuting other force users was trying to overthrow the Republic . Of course the jedi blamed the holocaust they committed on Emperor Vitiate , they always blamed others for their crimes.
always found it crazy not that the republic didn't want a navy or armed force, but they could go without havin one, just do not believe they could go without one, one thing that i found stupid about the pt and seems new republic is worse or just as bad
Well who hasn't committed a genocide at some point in history. ( kidding) technically i believe the chancellor of the republic ordered it . Ultimate responsibility lies there .
Anyone can say something stupid. It's the people that listen that are responsible. If someone told you to shoot someone it wouldn't be their fault if you actually did it.
@@Hinokassaudifan1 meh the force is too manipulative, constantly causing wars to achieve balance, they should cut htemselves off from the force or even better try to kill it and save the galaxy from it's corrupting influence (the gormak understood it why can't the jedi)
TLDR; Yes, they did participate in the genocide of the original sith, Republic might've been the main acting force, but Jedi were an important part of it being powerful warriors and stealing cultural heritage of the sith.
Republic Senate: *Leads many different atrocities*
The galaxy: “How could the Jedi do this?”
The Greater Good and the ends justifying the means, you utterly naive galaxy.
Order 66 was payback to the “evil” Jedi
But it seems the Jedi did commit genocide on behalf of the Republic, something that was their undoing in the era of the movies.
@@thenewkalpa No.
An astute description of how democracies work, or rather, how they fail to work. Not that other political systems have a better track record, of course.
So basically, Vitiate's propaganda campaign was so effective that it fooled people in real life.
I say more like people and lore channel who just read the same few page of the Star War Wiki, so it end up getting repeated alot. I seen this happen with lot of different lore channel, like they would say stuff that would had the person read the book or saw the primary source it would be different then what actually writen down, or it empathize less important thing and dempathize the more important things.
More then enough truth mixed in with the lies friend.
Basically lol
well master gnost dural recognised the sith genocide so i think geetsly is probably just jedi propaganda (again actual jedi with no ties to the sith empire recognised the atrocity so i think it's pretty safe to assume the jedi did it)
Actually, according to our own international laws, attempting to destroy the culture of a people _is_ considered a form of genocide.
I really don't care what Disney says. Legends content is the truth. The high republic stuff is fine however the sequel trilogy is not.
Mado and Book of Boba stuff is ok, though.
Amen
Disney canon is NOT my Star Wars!
@@jimmysmith2249 ye theres a lot of good technically cannon stuff, but I meant general stuff like the sequels.
star wars fans talking about anything without mentioning that they dont like the sequels challange
none yet managed to do it
"...Naga Sadow 'bravely ran away.' " I see what you did there lol.
Hahahaha
I'll be behind you my minions....way behind you(runs away)
"Stay here, I'll get help"
When danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned away and fled
"If you're familiar with Star Wars Legends-"
Excuse you? I think you meant to say "The Real Canon"
Sorry, typo in the script!
Bro definitely!
But you see it's the same because The Real Canon is Legendary
Lol Geets must've forgotten his audience for a moment! Of course we're familiar with Legends, we're followers of the "old ways," its why we keep watching this stuff!
It’d be nice to go into detail about the different surviving cells of the sith empire.
That’s a good video idea
The Jedi Order probably would have never publicly announced that they wanted to commit genocide of the Sith Species, but one must remember that this was the first real encounter of an entire civilization that worship and uses the Dark Side of the Force to such a scale that it couldn’t be ignore. The Sith Empire posed a threat to the Republic and Jedi Order respectively, and the total destruction of the Sith Empire would secure both of their existence in the Galaxy.
Well put
But since they did it, they ensured that the Sith became their mortal enemies, and would fight them ruthlessly for thousands of years.
@@AaronGuest would have happened regardless light and dark is not yin and yang there can't be any meaningful balance they would always HAVE to fight. It's in their nature like the tale of the scorpion and the frog.
Are you ignoring the whole Rakatan Empire? The sith were not the 1st race to use the dark side of the force. And what you just basically said, is that the Jedi built their legacy on top of a genocide. And let's not forget that at least 1 sith was part of the Jeed'ai, the order that existed before the Jedi. They have no excuse for the genocide. Unless you consider the looting of culture artifacts a good excuse.
@@lookinforgoodshowsz People can get over losing a war, but not attempted genocide man. The Jedi and Sith could've ended in a state of permanent cold war, instead of actual war, one of the reasons the Sith hated them so much was the genocide the Jedi did to them.
The Jedi helped the Republic destroy an entire civilization...yep that is the textbook definition of genocide alright. What Darth Vitiate said was propaganda, but there was turth in what the Republic did to the Sith Empire. Then the Sith Empire returned with a vengeance 1,300 years later, nearly destroying the Republic and the Jedi Order. As of 138 ABY in the Expanded Universe, the Jedi and Sith are still fighting the Religious Crusade against each other.
NOOOO NOT DA HECKIN' JEDAINOSS THEY DA GUD GAYS
Thing is, in the comics the Tales of the Jedi, Jedi Master Odan Urr explicitly mentioned the Jedi and the Republic driving the sith extinct. Seems to me that this old lore has been retconned somewhat. Not that I’m complaining. The Jedi committing Genocide against an enslaved race is kind of sort of completely messed up, and against the Light Side of the Force.
which issue?
Tales of the Jedi has been retconned a lot, for better or worse. A lot of later Old Republic material, tragically, has retconned a lot of ship/character designs to be a bit less extra, for example.
@@goodmind4940 The Sith War, Issue 1
@@geetslys well... you can argue everything has been retconned after dysney so...
Where was it retconned? Where is this info come from? Oh if this came from SWTOR I'm going to be soooo pissed. . .
The Empire's history is underrated they have a lineage of proud Sith, loyal Imperials, and a whole tract of civilians who believe in order.
Could a member of the Sith species ever become a Jedi? Hypothetically, if the Jedi found a surviving Sith infant somewhere, could they have trained the child to be a Jedi or would the natural pull to the dark side be too strong?
Can be argued so many ways it has made my head hurt discussing it.
I think not, 'cause they're dead, the snakes.
I don't think so because there are species that are naturally attracted to the Dark Side that the Jedi Order rarely recruited or outright refused to train and the Sith Purebloods would probably be the best example
sith became more a religion like the jedi yeah their is a face of them but you don't have to be that race to be sith
Its not impossible but its extremely unlikely. Some species pull more to the light side like Ithorians and others more to the dark side like the night sisters. They still had ithorian sith they can still fall to the dark side its just less likely just like a night sister could be a jedi.
Technically genocide also includes destroying culture, so in trying to steal and annihilate Sith culture and religion, it still does still somewhat fit the definition
I’ve always loved Vitiate and think he is better than sidious since he was able to achieve what sidious couldn’t and achieved a empire for so long and he was so OP that he had to be overtaken by many Jedi and Sith to defeat him
It's an abjectly silly comparison to make. The contexts for both aren't even vaguely close to being similar. The circumstances are utterly different.
Although I will note that, for the vast majority of Vitiate's Empires existence, it was isolated to a small portion of the galaxy and had zero real contact with the broader galactic civilization. The moment it came into conflict with the Republic it immediately started to crumble from the usual problems Sith Empires suffer.
@@papapalps2415 That's not true. If the Emperor had not taken Revan captive all those centuries before the empire's return to known space then the Republic would have ceased to exist.
@@papapalps2415 yeah events would have happened way differently if that happened
@@loremasterxp3635 ....Because the Republic had just gone through not one (Great Sith War, not two (Mandalorian Wars), but THREE (Jedi Civil War) galaxy spanning conflicts in a row, within the span of a few decades. An invasion by Vitiate after KOTOR 2 would have been a literal walkover. It isn't a fair fight.
@@papapalps2415 They had several centuries to recover.
To be fair the Jedi may not have tried to exerminate the sith purebloods but is severing their connection to the force and bombarded their homes really okay?
Compared to exterminating them? Yeah, I would say so.
Yes
It's like taking weapons away. It's not just a mere artifact so yes.
There was also the Lost Tribe of the Sith on Kesh, who built their own culture that lasted for thousands of years before it threatened the galaxy. They committed a genocide of their own on their Pureblood and Massassi members.
the funniest thing is that I checked the Star Wars galaxy map and Dromund Kaas is closer to Korriban than Ziost. You are telling me the Sith went and hid there and got away with it for such a long time until the events of TOR(mmo) after Kotor 1 and 2.
Honestly I feel like this video was done by jedi, screaming sith women children as they are slaugthered in their own homes by jedi it was something like this lord Scourge said, i guess saying there was no genocide helps jedi sleep better ? sith lords are psychopats and monsters but not sith species,don't tell me that there was no sith genocide and it was just fighters and sith lords that were not even killed just stripped of their powers thats pretty sleazy interpretation.
If this language was used in reference to actual, historical, atrocites, so many red flags would be waved. I dare say, really close to Holocaust denial.
but that's literally what lore says lol
2:22 Naga Sadaou: I am far from doing something so cowardly. I prefer tactical retreat to preserve knowledge.
Star Wars Fans: Sure buddy, whatever you say.
So... while in fact the Sith species were never wiped out in a single conflict, the Jedi believed they were (Great Hyper-space War & Seventh Battle of Ruusan) and the surviving Sith groups each believed they were the last... eh, close enough to call it genocide, by order of the Republic aided by Jedi combatants. Thank you for your work, Geetsly's - its good to clean up our knowledge and understanding.
Heh I you look at it like that, then the truth and propaganda aren't so far from each other....a least fully
How is naga sadow’s group more important than vitiate’s group? Yeah he contributed to exar Kun, but even if you give sadow FULL credit for exar kun (which you shouldn’t), I still think vitiate’s sith empire had more of an impact.
They literally sacked coruscant. The republic would have fallen to the sith empire had vitiate not been SO power hungry. Vitiate’s group was the closest besides sidious to conquering the galaxy.
Because until Sadow, the Jedi, the Republic and few outside of Sith controlled space even knew of the Sith, let alone how much of a threat they posed.
It’s Sadow’s actions which had the biggest overall impact on the history of the Sith. Vs Jedi / Republic dynamic which shaped the galaxy. It is key to understanding the 2nd Schism and the origins of the Sith’s rivalry and their desire for revenge. And it is this story that made it over into canon because if that.
Where as, you could almost toss SWTOR and not miss anything. Except for question of who were the “True Sith” that provoked the Neo-Mandalorians to invade the Republic and the secret Sith Emperor that converted Revan and Malek. (You know, KotOR and SWTOR stuff). Vitiate was just another Sith warlord leading a Sith invasion force comprising of a Sith faction as a result of that Schism. And it would need to be resolved in similar fashion as every other Sith v Jedi/Republic conflict of the Old Republic era. Which is with the near eradication of the Sith.
Perhaps if it wasn’t for the Disney sell a year after its release, that might have been a bit different.
Exar Kun walked into Coruscant, mind-controlled the entire Senate, said that the Republic was irrelevant, and walked out. He also forced the Jedi Order to reform itself for the first time since their foundation, and was the main driver behind the transition of the Sith from a species to an ideology, meaning he's basically responsible for the New Sith Wars.
@@samueldimmock694 It was already an ideology. And the only living Sith that Kun encountered were the Massassi sub species.
Revan and Malik were practically Exar and Ulik Qel-Droma come again as opposed the ‘True’ Sith (as Kreia call them), which at this point, the Republic believes to be extinct.
But the ideological changes that the Jedi Order went through during this greater 2nd Schism era is notable. They were becoming warrior monks. 15 to 20 thousand years of balance, up turned by the Jen’jidai who became Sith Lords. Then for the next 7,000 years the Jedi could hardly get through a millennia without some major conflict between the Lightside and the Darkside leading to a galaxy wide war.
@@eds1942 The Sith were a species and a culture, not an ideology, unless you're going to argue that it was actually Freedon Nadd who made that transition and Exar Kun just spread it. What I'm talking about is the fact that most of Exar Kun's Force-sensitive followers were recruited directly from the Jedi Order, something none of the previous Sith factions had done. I also don't think that he called his non-Force-sensitive followers (or the Krath) Sith, reserving that title for the trained Force-users and them alone. In short, he turned the Sith from a species and culture that used and worshipped the Dark Side of the Force to the Dark Side equivalent of the Jedi, complete with their remarkable ability to recover from near-total extinction because some guy taught another guy, or in the case of Darth Ruin, some Jedi found a few holocrons and became obsessed.
@@samueldimmock694 Yeah. You have to look back to the origin of the 2nd schism. And the fact that Kun’s Sith had no direct connection with the Sith species and died without much of an impact on Sith society or the true Sith Empire. Rather he had great impact on the Jedi Order and the Republic.
7,000bby, A group of Jedi, calling themselves the Jen’jidai, fell to the Darkside, split with the Order and started the Hundred Year Darkness. When they were defeated, they were demilitarized and exiled into the Unknown Regions and eventually landed on Korriban where they encountered the Sith species. The Jen’jidai adapted the Sith peoples philosophy into their own and became the Dark Lords of the Sith, the counter Force philosophical order to the Jedi.
After the Sith Empire were defeated at the end of the Great Hyperspace War around 5,000bby, the survivors (mixed races) stayed hidden for most of the next two millennia. Exar Kun and Ulik Qel Droma just followed in the footsteps of Freedon Nadd and the Krath. Beyond the Massassi, they had no connection with the real Sith Empire or Sith peoples or their race. Which is a point of difference between them and Revan and Malek. When both duos had their day around 4,000bby.
And the SWTOR happened and the true Sith Empire revealed itself and attacked the Republic and the Jedi Order.
At some point the Sith race went extinct. But, the Sith darksider philosophy survived in various forms, most notably, tombs, relics, manuscripts and holocrons.
And then at the end of the 4th Schism, after the Battle of Ruusan at around 1,000bby, Bane came up with his Rule of Two which was of a hodgepodge of the above, with Revan’s holocron providing a key source of inspiration.
‘Book of Sith’ covers a lot of this. And since it’s one of the few Legends books in reprint and to hold the Disney logo, I still hold it up as at least semi-canon or in-canon lore.
Anyway. It was a more complicated transition than what you are saying. Kun was just another point of reference and the Sith race just died out.
Oh, I would definitely love to hear about the Sorcerers of Tund! I wonder how they managed to survived and even thrived by the time of the Clones Wars and the Galactic Empire. Heck, did they even interact with the First Order and the Third Republic at all?
The sorcerers of Tund got wiped out by some jackass who wanted to be the only one with their secrets about 5 years into the reign of Sidious.
@@alex52043 Due to how things went in the Sequel trilogy, the Sith Empire originated from the Sorcerers of Tund can still be a possibility.
@@lerneanlion In cannon they seem have in the High republic era have meeting and a few celebartions with other force groups including jedi at Jeddah city
I have now learned that the galactic republic has their own British Museum.
No mention of the Keshiri sith. They became a major faction against Luke's Jedi order and the Galactic Alliance.
Freedom Nadd a fallen Jedi was the one to slay Naga Sadow who was in turn slain by another fallen jedi Exur Kun who then used the empire that had been slowly built up to wage a war on the Galactic Republic. He lost. This happened about forty odd years or so before Revan & Malak.
Edit: Oh & Nathema used to be called Medriaas before it was destroyed by Tenebrae (Vitiate) & was ruled by his father before Tenebrae killed him.
Exar Kun killed Freedon Nadd, who killed Naga Sadow. Otherwise correct, tho.
@@geetslys Oh shit yeah good point. Thanks for the correct. 👍
Ok, we'll add an extra detail, The Republic and The jedi commited CULTURAL genocide along with stealing their artifacts and putting them in museums or behind closed doors. Still genocide, still not good.
Indeed, it is still Genocide... Just of a different kind...
Well let's look at it like this. Sith aren't exactly a species, neither are jedi or us humans.
This is all a state of mind.
So yeah cultural genocide still works
@@Orto-jj2di They were, do you not know the lore of the Sith Pure bloods?
@@starpaladingoldbug2282 ouuuuh right
@@Orto-jj2di Also wtf do you mean by we arnt a species?
And then an old man came. And made a fool out of all of them.
Which old man?
The Jedi and Republic were also responsible for the first Mandalorian Cataclysm(also known as the Mandalorian Excision or in Mandalorian the Dral'Han aka the Annihilation). In which Republic fleets with some Jedi present bombed the once earth like planet of Mandalore(alongside other planets like Concord Dawn, Ordo, and Fenel) into a desert world and killed countless numbers of Mandalorians. In legends Mandalore would eventually have it's ecology recover by the time of the Empire, but in canon that fate is up in the air.
So it wasn’t so much an ethnic genocide as it was a cultural genocide. Still not a great look for the Jedi.
To be fair, the Dark Side is evil, and Sith culture was full of the Dark Side. It's still not good, though.
@@samueldimmock694 the Dark Side isn't evil. the Dark Side is the very core of all living things.
@@ghostface4404 What do you mean by "the Dark Side?"
@@samueldimmock694 the emotional side of a person.
@@ghostface4404 Well, that's not how the word is used in a lot of Star Wars media, including this one. Which is good, because by that definition, the Dark Side is not inherently evil (though it is not inherently good, either), and a lot of Star Wars media treats the Dark Side as if it were evil.
Oftentimes, the Dark Side is defined by it being evil: murdering people is a Dark Side act because it's evil; Dark Side organizations are fond of slavery because slavery is evil; Dark Side magic involves causing great suffering and/or death, either as the intended effect or as a necessary component of some powerful ritual, because that's what evil magic looks like.... So when I said that Sith culture was "full of the Dark Side," I meant that selfishness and treachery were seen as virtues and compassion and self-restraint as vices, their religion involved large amounts of "human" sacrifice (though other sentient species were often used), slavery and oppression were their default approach to encountering new civilizations, and things like that. They were not characterized by a wholesale embrace of emotions, as any selfless emotions were seen as weakness and thus unforgivable.
I wonder if Darth Sidious and Darth Vader existed in those times how powerful would they be. The old Sith seemed far more powerful than the new sith.
Well, an important distinction here is that a lot of the old Siths power came from talismans imbued with the force. Baneite Sith arguably have more raw power.
dont imagine theyd the that much different from the average dark council member or high ranking darth.
@@feliciastaldotter5168 idk... sidious was able to use force storm a power I've never seen older Sith use. I've also never seen older Sith create lightning force fields either.
So the sith mostly genocided themselves in suicides, infighting and mass sacrificial rituals
I really like the idea of Sith survivors forming remote, isolated communities. What kind of Sith created them? How would their societies and attitudes change over time?
Given the length of time and the kinds of Sith that would survive post-Hyperspace war, you could have very different societies evolving.
Realistically speaking it depends base on Atlas who washes the whole genocide part who inspired the video which is still is bad because if you read in between lines it seems more like the army melted and the roles of who made the incident got split the republic killed the sith while the jedi... destroyed their culture so cultural genocide WHICH IS WORSE... so... we have two cannons who are pretty much the same with another just saying who did what so in my opinion there is 2 ways it ended first the sith are in isolated societies at the edges of the galaxy or in the unknown regions probably after they realised (probably after the whole cold war period of the old republic and the constant back forward of the sith empires) someone or a group having brains probably realised it was hide or die so now sith in the modern times aka luke skywalker times probably live in isolated pockets in fear of the outside world and dreading if any exploratory ships appear others probably went stone age and live in primitive terms probably their dark side connection evaporating and then there is the BOLD planners someone realised that shit was going down and instead of hiding in a galaxy they couldn't rule decided to say fuck it and crewded ships with sith purebloods and left the galaxy trying the best Yunzan vong style.
Sith who chose the Light Side of the Force BUT they’re still devout followers of the Sith Code & every other aspect; they craved power & the reason they’ve saved lives is to gain more power…
how do you follow the will of the force while at the same time belive in a doctrine that preaches that only your will is what matters. if you crave power you have already abandoned "the light" and will be unstable until you either fall to the dark side or reestablish yourself to the light.
the sith code and philosophy does not have any light in it. it says that victory is won through passion, this is antithethical to any kind of light. even the sith who fell to the light while not becoming jedi abandoned sith teachings and the code because you cannot have both
Ah, well, @@feliciastaldotter5168, let me Clarify. First of all, you’re basing this off of the teachings that go beyond their codes (the Jedi Code & the Sith Code). Most, if not all Sith, are Murderous & will kill anybody who disagrees; they’ll sacrifice slaves just to get whatever they want. The ‘light sided’ Sith I’m referring to refrains from violence as much as possible, doesn’t sacrifice slaves, nor anything like that; believes in attaining power through their own efforts & only uses slaves for more laborious tasks, yet treats slaves more like serfs (actual terminology of earth’s history). Does go against the force, but doesn’t do evil things, especially when Peaceful methods are more effective; when Murderous Sith picks a fight, the Light Sided Sith won’t back down; they’ll lay claim to the vanquished & will keep their concubines (okay, so this’ll probably be the most Sith thing the light sided Sith would do: rape; doesn’t murder any of his conquests though)…
@@nickvinsable3798 Before I go into some HEAVY in-depth discourse, I would like to point out that this will be a long post. TL;DR at the bottom.
Onto the subject at hand:
Some of what Felicia has stated is true.
(Although 'the will of the force' does not necessarily mean the will of the light. 'The will of the force'
does not belong to the light alone nor the dark.
It is inherently unknowable and to think that Jedi, Sith, or anyone really can 'know' what it wants is simply a fallacy. More on that Later.)
A Sith who 'chose the Light-side of the force', 'craves power', and 'follows the Sith-code in every other aspect...but the only reason they save lives is to gain more power', is still Sith in nature (Dark-side in nature).
If the motive of saving lives isn't altruistic/selfless, it is inherently against 'the Light'.
That would just be a form of manipulation; this is one of the core Tenants of Sith Doctrine and philosophy.
You are essentially saving people so that they may be of some use to you later, whether it be immediate or for long-term gain.
I'd say that if this hypothetical person did not follow/believe in the Sith Code as they 'interpret' it to be, they would verge on Neutral to Neutral-Dark Force Wielder.
(On another tangent: I refuse to use terms like 'DarkJedi' or 'Grey Jedi/Sith' since neither of them follow/believe their respective codes, therefore cease to be Sith and/or Jedi.)
Alternatively, if by 'a Sith that has chosen the light' you mean they have chosen to use specific abilities of the light-side (such as it's superior healing abilities),
I would still say that the motives in doing so itself are still inherently Sith in nature albeit unorthodox.
If the idea is to learn from your enemy so that you may then conquer your enemy, it is still very in line with the ideals of the Sith.
It is to benefit you and you alone and not to be used to help others.
----
Now as for the rest of your response:
What you're describing to me sounds like a 'Pragmatist Sith'.
Pragmatist Sith are sill self-centered, however, they act in a way, or make decisions based on what is in the greatest interest of their factions.
This often is to the benefit of themselves primarily. Usually the factions goals and their goals are one in the same.
The more indispensable you prove yourself to be, the more power your will attain.
Motivation is simple: if your faction defeats the enemy, then life is better for you and your civilization. It's about efficiency.
What course of action can get me (and my faction) the most amount of power/resources in the quickest, most efficient way possible.
That doesn't mean they'll shy away from violence. Far from it, actually.
If killing is the quickest route to an easy victory, a Pragmatist Sith will absolutely resort to violence. They just don't use it as a crutch.
For instance: instead of wasting resources killing an entire planet to conquer it, a Pragmatist Sith would find other means to do so. After all, an all-out assault is costly.
They can manipulate the leadership, orchestrate and frame the opposing faction. Then convince the inhabitance that they have no other allies but the Sith, and install a puppet government. Therefore, the people and it's government willingly chose Imperial occupation over it's 'perceived enemy' as the better of two evils.
Their resources are then for the taking without much bloodshed on imperial side (which is all they care about, they need all the resources they can get).
'Doesn't do evil things,' This is very vague (Everything you have mentioned that they do thus far is by most standards 'evil').
A Pragmatist Sith does not care about how many enemies he kills, he cares about the results.
With this in mind, you have to look at situations logically, economically, and strategically.
They see killing as a tool, as well as diplomacy and maintaining an image of nobility.
Basically becoming well versed in Machiavellian philosophy and master-slave morality of Nietzsche.
Imagine if Thrawn was a Sith. That's the best way I can explain it.
--------
"There are as many Sith philosophies as there are Sith." - Sith Inqusitor, SWTOR
There are so many different interpretations of the Sith Code and it's doctrine (especially between different eras of Sith), that to generalize it isn't entirely accurate.
Traditional Sith are what you describe as 'Murderous sith'.
They are the kind of Sith that take the code at face value and refuse to deviate from it even to the benefit to the Sith as a whole.
They are sadistic by all means of the word and will murder on any slightest offense without any provocation. This includes allies, or potential allies.
They will see everything as a tool to be used and then discarded. They will betray ones allies at any given chance if it is beneficial to them to do so.
"Killing without reason of gain was a petty pleasure of sadistic fools"- Darth Bane
Making too many enemies can be the death of any Sith. The problem within this line of thinking is that realistically this is unsustainable.
If every Sith acted this irrationally and acted on every miniscule whim- any sort of Empire or organization cannot possibly exist for too long.
Fortunately, not every Sith behaves this way.
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TL;DR:
What you describe isn't 'Light-side Sith'. There is no such thing as a Sith that can be light-side.
Rather, this is called a Pragmatist Sith.
They see killing as a tool, as well as diplomacy and maintaining an image of nobility (specifically for selfish-reasons or political gain).
They are well versed in Machiavellian philosophy and master-slave morality of Nietzsche.
Imagine if Thrawn was a Sith. That's the best way I can explain it.
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I can talk about this all day. Feel free to ask any questions.
(Also, if there are any grammatical/spelling errors I will find them eventually. I'm not re reading this a 7th time if I can help it.)
Yeah, that reads about right, @@cathrsys9584. The only other reason I’d refer to this Particular Sith, what you call a Pragmatic Sith, is that he/she shows no signs of corruption, as certain other Sith have shown (i.e. those yellow Sith eyes & such)…
@@nickvinsable3798
Late Reply.
The DarkSide Corrupts even Pragmatic Sith. Usage and the extent of its affects varies on a case by case basis. You'll have Sith like Lana Beniko that just have the Sith eyes or you'll have Sith like Darth Krovos that are PureBlood, and because of that the DarkSide barely has any affect on their appearance due to their natural affinity for it.
But to have no corruption at all as a Sith and remain in the Sith (as an organization) would be impossible.
This can either mean 2 things:
1. The Sith is using some sort of Ritual that covers up any deformities.
2. The Person is balanced. Meaning they must have extreme mastery and consentration over both sides of the force to keep themselves from swaying either way.
Too much and any sort of killing or anger would cause Sith eyes. Too little and any Sith worth their title could sense them kilometers away.
If they were good enough they could cloak themselves but that is very rare and very difficult among high powered force wielders.
Logically, if they were not a Rogue Sith or just not aligned to any faction, they'd be exterminated.
(Out of Curiosity, to what character are you referring to? Is this a personal character, oc?)
Sorcerers of Tund! Like seriously, people don’t believe me when I say there are purebloods in the clone war era!
Well, in the end, I suppose the fault ultimately lies in the Republic.
Maybe they didn't set out with the idea of outright exterminating the Sith, but...they still kicked the dog when it was down, and the dog fought till the end.
Not their finest moment, even if the Sith didn't really handle it as well as they could have.
The lies told concerning the Sith were many!
The biggest lie of all was that the Sith had been 'wiped out'. They went to ground so well, the Jedi declared them extinct.
The second biggest lie was that the Sith needed to be wiped out in the first place. Where is the Balance if only Light-side are allowed to live?
Third thru fifth biggest lies are mostly administrative.
Sixth biggest lie is purely ornamental, serving no known purpose, and you wouldn't get it anyway...
Depends if the Sith didn’t focus on infighting and backstabbing each other always they could have triumphed over the Jedi order but their hubris and arrogance was their downfall
The sith were going to fall at least In the sense of the empire after their failure just like any power vacuum and probably even worse with how power hungry sith are. The republic pushed the genocide aspect more the jedi, seeing as how the jedi didn't kill. But the stripping connection to the force and stripping of sith artifacts especially if they aren't connected to the force.
Well actually the Sith Empire would have destroyed the Republic upon their return to known space but unbeknownst to them (& the empire) Revan influenced the Emperor to seek peace.
@@zkapsh yeah true
@@loremasterxp3635 if Revan was better maybe he would have succeeded but who knows
@@davidordaz5251 how did he influence the sith emperor to not attack, it seems to me that, not always but majority of the time the sith seem the be the aggressor and make the first move, so it's really a suprise to hear they were peaceful.
Is it just me, or does anyone else remember a story with Luke's Praxium that included a Massassi?
“What happened to the Sith Purebloods?” Duh, they’re 500 cartel coins in swtor.
the Dark Jedi forcibly integrated into and ruled over the Sith Purebloods, if anything this seems like a greater crime than the mutual combat engaged in between the proper Jedi Order and the Sith Lords....
i mean in the process they became sith they didnt purge pureblooded sith from the galaxy or do a systemic destruction of hteir culture
Nah, my dude. Just because some factions of true blood sith survived doesn't mean that the Jedi didn't condone and then actively participate in what is literally called the Sith Holocaust. And you might come back at me by citing some propaganda such as "...the Sith no longer posed a threat to the Republic, but the Supreme Chancellor was unsatisfied. Jedi and Republic forces were sent to Korriban and other Sith planets to ensure no remnants of the Sith Empire remained", as definitive proof of Vitiate's propaganda, but that was actually said by Jedi Historian Gnost-Dural in his commentary of the holocaust. I'm interested to know how you square that as in-universe sith propaganda. I think your habit of whitewashing the jedi isn't just the more simplistic view of in-universe history, but that it actively reduces the nuance of the expanded universe and forces what should be an artistic medium of exploring real world issues in depth into a story frame consisting of a false dichotomy between good and evil.
...to continue, a good way of exploring how events unfold in-universe is to superimpose them on real world events. Imagine, that if after the allies defeated the axis powers in WW2, that instead of offering terms of surrender the allies imposed a counter-invasion that targeted axis power populations and carried out the suppression of these defeated peoples to such an extent that only pockets of these civilizations managed to escape and survive in exile leaving absolutely no surviving members of those civilizations in the conquered territories. I'm just saying it's difficult to idolize that sort of behavior and that maybe a more gritty examination of the philosophies of war, power, and religions, shows the SW medium more respect than the typical 'jedi good, sith bad' paradigm.
If the Jedi killed all the Sith... wouldnt that make them Sith Lords?
No. That would just make them assholes. And hypocrites.
Ironic
the jedi still committed cultural genocide.
The Senate simply returned the favor.
conclussion: the jedi didn't do anything, the sith were beginning their extinction long ago
But Gnost Dural himself recognized the Sith Holocaust
Given Gnost-dural, a Jedi Master, was the one who catalogued and detailed the Republic's genocide of the Sith species, yes. They did in fact commit genocide. It was not propaganda.
I freaking love this channel you guys give awesomely great insight into the Star Wars universe so I personally thank you for this because I love the Star Wars universe!!
I still think that a handle full escaped beyond the reach of the republic and the Jedi into the unknown region and never returned
Yep as mentioned in the video the Sorcerers of Tund are one such group of Sith Purebloods that survived and even thrived well into the reign of the Galactic Empire.
Thanks for bringing the truth out. I had just accepted the Sith Genocide as fact for so long. Vitiate’s lies still effect us to this day.
This sounds like republic/ Jedi propaganda. Next you’re gonna tell me there’s war in ba sing se
the answer is yes, they committed an actual genocide if not cultural genocide.
Listen dude, I mean no offense and I absolutely love your vedios, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this, it's similar to your Grey Jedi vedio, while yes the Sith did strike first they were manipulated into doing so believing that they would've been invaded otherwise, it was kill or be killed from their perspective, and the Sith Holocaust only further instilled this deep rooted fear. And as for the Grey Jedi vedio, in the Revan novel Revan was described as using the Force in its purest form when he used both sides in tandem, its like yang and tang, one cannot exist without the other, its like a quote I once read "Without the light your just staring into an endless abyss, and without the dark you'll just get blinded by the light, you need to find a balance." The Force existed long before the Jedi and Sith decided it into light and dark and I think that quote represents it perfectly.
Ultimately, sith purebloods 'died out' due to interbreeding with humans. The compatibility was as such that births tended to favor human over sith traits over time. Leaving sith bloodlines but no true sith.
One thing of jedi I been realizing from videos saying the jedi were wrong I realize the jedi are not keepers of the peace but rather a paramilitary organization of the republic
Also I been playing fallout games more particularly new vegas and not only am I realizing what Ron Perlman means with saying war...war never changes and how it applies in star wars but a quote by mr house on his view of the brotherhood of steel kinda makes me think of the jedi by changing it slightly on jedi I have to say they are ridiculous because they galavant the galaxy pretending to be the knight of yore atleast they did until order 66 game out realizing ideological purity and the force are no match when outnumbered 15:1
Basically what I'm really saying is fallout and reality seems to make more sense of sith and jedi as in they are really just factions vying for power and in the end war...war never changes
If vengeance is to be effecrive, it must not be proportionate.
It must be Final.
Hey now, don't give the bad-guys any more advice. They get enough of it from works of fiction.
This better research then most video on this subject.
Please make a video all about the Star Wars Moon Of Endor Giant race known as the phlogs from Star Wars Ewoks please
Awesome video. Thanks for the update.
Vitiate=Darth Bane before Darth bane. (Which means that funnily enough, the events if the movies were revan's fault when you think about it)
I mean Bane credits a lot of his philosophy to Revan so you could say its his "fault" without that
Have you covered the B'omarr Order in any videos before? One of my favorite just plain weird Star Wars things.
This is why vitiate/Tenebrae/valkorian is my favorite character in sw
There was also the Lost Tribe of the Sith, which survived until after the Vong Invasion and fought Luke Skywalker and Aboleth
So what is your source for this because when I looked up sith holocoaust the wiki didnt say anything about Jedi not executing captured prisoners or takeing the force away from a prisoners. And isnt calling it the sith holocost kind of imply it was a genocide.
Glad to hear the story of swtor explained properly instead of guessing at what the truth was ( though I did aquire the lore master title in swtor for all of my efforts, which is nice)
Revan also tried this in the foundry
Yeah, on closer inspection,
genocide is literally the least Jedi thing to do.
Exactly. I don't understand why so many people were hoodwinked by this.
@@gavinsmith9871 Because some people take villain stanning to absurd degrees (or seem to genuinely believe Dooku and Palpatine's statements, even though both are sociopathic liars)
@@lotrofan5 or maybe because the jedi have always been hypocrites, yes the sith order is worse obviously but you'd be surprised by how many atrocities the jedi committed (killing the true mandalorians, supporting the glassing of mandalore, killing a bunch of kaleesh slaves, attacking the legions of lettow, not to mention all the child abductions and brainwashing). Basically kreia was right the force is evil and jedi and sith are just pawns for htis malevolent force
@@revanruler6404 First of all, Kreia is a lying, nihilistic sociopath who deliberately strings you along in her quest for revenge against her two students/former allies. Second, the Jedi were not the aggressors at Galidraan. The Death Watch aligned governor framed Jango and his men for the wholesale slaughter of civilians, and when the Jedi came to investigate and bade Jango lay down his weapons and explain what was going on, Jango instead opened fire, forcing Dooku and the rest of the response team to defend themselves. Third, it was the Mandalorian Civil Wars that ravaged Mandalore, not the Order. The Jedi were the ones who helped the Mandalorians rebuild. Fourth: THEY DO NOT TAKE IN YOUNGSTERS WITHOUT PARENTAL PERMISSION. That is well established in both continuities, in addition to the fact they defer to the judgement of local Force traditions (if one exists). Fifth, the Legions of Lettow were a conquering army that were poised to spread their teachings to the Jedi and the galaxy at large by force. The Republic and the Order acted in self-defense.
Evil in the name of good, huh?
if not mistaken didn't the white armour sith emperor end up with a frozen raven??
Genocide is genocide, doesn’t matter if the Jedi or Republic participate in that act. They still committed genocide on another species. The Jedi are not saviors of the galaxy or of the Light, the Sith are not monsters and champions of the Dark. Both are flawed organizational entities. Personally I believe the Sith philosophy is the correct one, “the strong rule because they are the most dominant and powerful, the weak serve the will of the strong until they themselves can usurp those in positions of power.” Its no different than the philosophy of survival in my opinion.
True or not it wouldn't be to far fetched to say that the Jedi committed genocide against considering their opinion on the Darkside and how the Jedi often dragged the Republic into wars with the Sith and their Empires or anything that resembled one.
It feels weird watching this having chosen the jedi shadow as the first character I'm playing in swtor.
*Pulls pin on hand grenade*
Tell me the history of Exegol and its relationship to the ancient sith.
*Rolls grenade under table before walking out and locking the door*
So the Great Hyperspace War was the galactic version of the Pacific front in WWII
Love how Fate of the Jedi just doesn’t exist in your legends world. :) Actually not as salty as I sound, well done video although I did kind of enjoy the Lost Tribe on Kesh or whatever the hell.
I don't know. Sound like pro Jedi propaganda to me. So the Sith who were captured were stripped of the force in order to "make them harmless". Ignoring the ethical implications of doing such a thing, how is it that they naturally died off. They lost their connection to the force, but they were still alive. Ether the place the survivors where being kept lacked the means to keep them alive (starvation etc) or stripping them of the force did something to their health. And unless the procedure made them infertile, their children should have been force sensitive. Unless the Jedi also stripped the force from the children and routinely did the same to any newly born children which is it's own form of f'ed up. Regardless of whether the Jedi actively committed genocide, their action still caused it ether through apathy or malicious oppression.
Disagree. Jedi were morally corrupt. The purebloods just interbred with the human/sith hybrids. But that doesn't negate the fact the Jedi committed suicide
you mean the jedi commited genocide?
I mean it might have happened, but six million? that number seems a bit far-fetched
"Hey Skyguy, why did they build hospitals in the camps if they were just gonna kill em?"
Reads title
“…fuck yeah based”
You should do a video about the “Jedi Shadows” if you haven’t already…
So stories of Tatoine and Korriban only being Deserts because they were glasses are untrue?
From a certain point of view, perhaps
Nathema at the time of the GHW was named Madriaas
The Jedi definitely used the old “those people committed suicide” claim to deflect attention from their extrajudicial executions
Thank you for giving me star wars content!!!😁
All of the SW franchise is nothing but Jedi propaganda.
Thank you.
I think that the Jedi were only partially responsible for the extinction of the original Sith…after the Sith’s very way of viewing the Dark side of the Force is literally self destructive by nature.
I say the Sith’s way and not the Dark side in general is because Star Wars has shown groups of Force users like the Night sisters of Dathomir that can use the Dark Side’s powers and not give to the corrupting nature of the Dark Side (not fully anyway) 11:17
I understand the Original Sith getting defeated but I wish they were just endangered would love to see them in current Star Wars series
well this is not canon they could do whatever they want with the history of the sith
Sorcerers of Tund sounds fun
He bravely ran away. He danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled
Yes the Sorcerors of Tund video please
Just another atrocity I committed by the blood thirsty jedi , the only thing that they loved more than religiously persecuting other force users was trying to overthrow the Republic .
Of course the jedi blamed the holocaust they committed on Emperor Vitiate , they always blamed others for their crimes.
Wait they're were sith purebloods alive during the Clone Wars?!
Not only then the lost tribe was there during Luke's years.
They should write a story about a sith who became a jedi.
always found it crazy not that the republic didn't want a navy or armed force, but they could go without havin one, just do not believe they could go without one, one thing that i found stupid about the pt and seems new republic is worse or just as bad
Jedi propaganda and lies I won't stand here and listen to anymore of this!
Well who hasn't committed a genocide at some point in history. ( kidding) technically i believe the chancellor of the republic ordered it . Ultimate responsibility lies there .
And the jedi, like dogs, follow their masters. The moment the jedi stopped serving the force, they sealed their fate.
And the Jedi, he ordered it but they did it.
Very true because the jedi are rely nothing more than a paramilitary organization of the republic
Anyone can say something stupid. It's the people that listen that are responsible. If someone told you to shoot someone it wouldn't be their fault if you actually did it.
@@Hinokassaudifan1 meh the force is too manipulative, constantly causing wars to achieve balance, they should cut htemselves off from the force or even better try to kill it and save the galaxy from it's corrupting influence (the gormak understood it why can't the jedi)
Yes do a video on the sourcerers of tund
It has to be some other side, unless the lore states tapping into the force is a genetic mutation or something, but that's Marvel
You support any genocide when the authors are the jedi or the republic 😆
TLDR; Yes, they did participate in the genocide of the original sith, Republic might've been the main acting force, but Jedi were an important part of it being powerful warriors and stealing cultural heritage of the sith.