I absolutely love how not only do you regularly ask Romero questions about obscure and specific things in a game that’s almost 30 years old, but that he actually regularly answers! He’s such a nice dude
Lately he has been streaming on Twitch under TheRomero, he's building Sigil 2 maps. His music is godlike and it's a very chill vibe. He's a really cool dude.
"People give Romero crap for having an ego, but when this dude was like 21 he made the f***ing video game equivalent of Thriller." - CV-11, stimpak helmet torture mascot and based ass dude
Fun fact: in the GBA port of Doom 2, they managed to fix this secret! But inadvertently, they broke the teleporter by doing so. You win some, you lose some.
Ah, I remembered this level was in the GBA version (though I think it got split into two parts?), but wasn't in many of the other console-versions of that era. I guess I'd rather have the secret work than the teleport, given @Decino says you can get to the area it takes you to via normal-means anyway
@@dftfire Yeah, they split it into two and actually added a unique section to the beginning of the second part. It's not long, but exclusive to that port! And yeah, it's better that the secret works, though I think there's several other secrets you can't get in that port :D It's pretty broken in itself.
@@GermanPeter The GBA DOOM II, if I recall right, was not the DOOM Engine, but something called "SouthPaw" (or similar). So they essentially ported the levels, sprites, music and SFX over, but then had to make the AI, weapons, enemies and so-on all mimic DOOM II. And it has that major-bug where your armour does not work in a level until you first collect an armour-bonus, I recall.
Speaking as a software tester it's amazing the DOOM developers had no QA and yet managed to release a game so good and with only a few oddball bugs like this.
It's even more brutal considering that PE is technically spawning a flaming skull inside the player and all to figure out "a puzzle", this is some Xenomorph/Hellraiser crossover nightmare fuel :)
We all know who was really behind it: the pain elemental. He wanted to feel useful, so he programmed John's mind to make the secret. Pain elemental didn't account for humanity's limited intelligence though, and it took decades to figure out.
Excellent summary, and great to know that John Romero was just being a silly guy and people were taking him too seriously. I always knew he had a sense of humor about stuff like this.
I do love there's some "gotta hand it to humanity, when they're bored, they'll make it their damnedest to make something work, until it doesn't or vice versa. ... or maybe go insane along the way trying"
he got a kick out of replying with that response because he knew he's talking to a community of fucking nerds who struggle with straightforward social behaviour lmfao
I love these "what goes on behind the scenes in the engine code" videos, being a computer science major and programmer in college, these are one of the most delicious ones! ❤
Yeah... I'm not a coder, but many of them I can follow. It would be great if he ever did a comparison between some of the code-differences between some of the console-ports of DOOM from the 90s and the DOS originals. Be interesting to know what some of the differences are, as I'd guess for the consoles parts of the code had to be re-written to further optimise it, and reduce complexity? And I think Jaguar DOOM (which most other versions were built-from) is something like v1.4 of the DOOM Engine, I think? So when DOOM2 came to PlayStation and Saturn, what was done there? Did they code-in the new enemy behaviours and AIs on-top-of the Jaguar code, or was it a fresh port from a later version of the DOS DOOM code?
Thanks for the great video decino, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to draw your merch! It was a blast working on it and you ain't that bad of an artist yourself! I won't lie that 3:55 and 6:10 made me extremely happy :)
Ok now everything makes sense- the fact that it accidentally skips an entire check that updates the player's height is an hilarious solution on it's own- is also interesting to see how the doom code is organized, I think the way you showcased the functions like folders where you go deeper and deeper into the content is really neat! thank you decino :D Now the real question is...how in the loving hell did zero master found this out???
huge, MAGNANIMOUS ups to jon romero and others of the OG id team for still being active in the communities they spawned and answering questions from fans decades later.
Soooooo this secret was almost entirely unobtainable if a pain elemental was never originally placed on this map during its creation. That's how close this secret was to never being obtainable.
It's not only a deathmatch thing, I suppose. I'm quite sure that the teleport pad is marked as a secret as a hidden method of easily traversing between the two parts of the map separated by the massive moat of magma in between, should you feel any need to cross the moat once again but need a much easier and safer method to do so. Also, I haven't ever considered a combat armor crop top / bra on Doom guy, so thanks a bunch for burning that image into my head.
Figuring out how it works when you can reproduce it every time and have access to the source code is pretty much guaranteed. My respect is for the guy who imagined how it *could* work.
You probably get this a lot, but my favourite thing about your videos is how you make a little custom map to demonstrate almost every concept you talk about. Even when it's as simple as like, a big long room with one enemy at the other end to demonstrate weapon spread, it makes a massive difference to understanding what all those numbers mean when they're actually crunched by the engine. Also: good to hear you've been taking time to rest! Burnout is real and it can really sneak up on you, especially with self-employment-type stuff like UA-cam. And honestly, it's kinda worse if the thing that's burning you out is also "supposed to be" fun. So cheers to you!
The sequence in which the engines analyze and calculate things going on in games is a neverending source of funnies and derps. It's so rigid that you literally can't fathom how an obscure interaction can go wrong before testing in real time. Computers are wacky.
It's the second time I ate all the playlist for the analysis videos in a row, it's nice to see a new video for the list. There's something relaxing in his speech and the comedy is top quality. John Romero did us dirty for 24 years straight lmao
I suppose one potential use of this could be to fall down a long distance near instantly. Does it still happen if you're in the air? Oh god, someone could use this as a way to make you dodge cyber rockets in a tight corridor. Sounds like rng hell, but it could be done.
Also happens when you're in the air. The "feature" has potential for sure for a very gimmicky map. I show a quick proof of concept before the outro section.
Thanks for another great and indepth analysis video! Very interesting to finally understand how this secret works exactly. Even though I 'performed' the secret earlier this year, I honestly had no idea the opening/closing door was a part of triggering it 😅 Also, I can vouch for the merch! 😎
I was always interested in learning how this secret trigger worked, thank you so much for the in-depth explanation. It made it real easy to understand what makes it tick. I really do wonder if someone will sneak it into a megaWAD now!
Oh, it's been a while since we had some good old explanatory video. And just when I started to think this way BOOM! It shows up. Perhaps, other fans were more vocal with their thoughts, I guess. Well, while I am not going to repeat that achievement myself, Igor some strange feel of joy. Pretty much the same feeling I got when read about making of Aliens by J.Cameron and his team. How they were filming stuff, mixing explosives for special effects, creating the weaponry, training the actors with royal marines. And, of course, props to patrons. I'm so glad that Beaks and Pain are still around. Oh, this midi... An extra pleasure.
Decino, your analysis vids are some of the best Doom content around, period. I look forward to every one of these. I also get the fact that they can be really time-consuming (your work ethic shows clearly here), and so I'm glad that you're being mindful of your time and energy in terms of what types of content you do and when. Keep up the awesome work. Also, that ARCH shirt design is great!
The pain elemental is my second favorute demon in the game, just behind the Cyberdemon. Just... Look at him. His thematic conception (Or as people call it, the lore) is that it's a creature constantly in pain and suffering, knowing nothing more than torment and spawning angry souls... But it's just so HAPPY all the time. Like a little grandpa going on a morning walk in early fall to buy some cupcakes from the bakery his beloved wife owns, because he wants to surprise her. Look at his walk animation. He's so cute.
There's a reason why Doom is like "2.5" cause it does have like 3D space, just not 3D models and such. Like if I remember correctly, these line based engines render 2D level data as 3D environments
@@hi-i-am-atan we could also consider Doom's 3D as a special case of the "real 3D", just like Newtoniam mechanics can be thought as a special case for the more generalized relativistic Einsteinian space-time - for what it is supposed to do it works just fine :)
You did very good decino, in addresing all the limitations the iD guys had when making maps! Sometimes when you play the game and see stuff, for example, pinkies blocking each ohter (for being placed in the same exact spot) you are like "hey, how could the devs do this? That is so lame/cheap of them" but knowing the context gives you a whole different POV. Yes, those mistakes aren't cool, but it's pretty likely thay any of us would have commited the same mistakes (under those circumstances) Now 4 a different topic: 11:04 this mad me remember that in one ocassion Coincident experimented something similar but with a Radiation Suit Zone 300's MAP13
Very interesting and very cool! This was worth the wait. So, if the secrets were triggered by just checking if the player bounding box is overlapping any part of a secret sector, regardless of height, would that fix the various broken secrets in Doom 2, Ultimate Doom, etc.? It looks like the requirement for the player origin to actually touch the secret sector is what makes the secrets in E4M3, MAP15, and MAP27 problematic.
Good thing there is a pain elemental on this map, otherwise we would never get this gem. And of course major props to Zero Master for discovering and you ducino for making another banger video. Btw 6:50 very cute model for showing off merch, makes me want to find a "epic doom gf"
Consistently love the way you dismantle these bugs piece by piece to find which interactions cause them, then rebuild them in a test level so we can see exactly what's going on at every step. DOOM itself might be old, but there's a wealth of game design and QA skills to be learned from it, and YOU are helping to make that knowledge available Pumpkin Man! Keep it up!
Crazy how much you learn from a 30 year old game. As always love these videos. Still remember naive 10 year old me seeing their first Pain Elemental and being absolutely shocked and grossed by it's appearance. When you try and picture these floating outside of your window in real life it's really kind of freaky.
@@E5raelNot sure if trolling, but Coincident is their name, "[Is this a] coincidence?" is what I meant. Just trying to make more sense and provide correct information. Now, if I'd said "Decino eating a face rocket... Coincident?" 😅
@@ji604 I knew his name is Coincident, not Coincidence. 😉 I was just being "dyslexic" for the sake of a lame joke, hence the "yours sincerely" part to hammer the joke home.
Fun facy: the A R C H shirt has a small chance to induce a small ptsd attack in classic doom players, the easiest way to see this is to use a TAS and manipulate the rng table correctly
These are the videos I love most! Don't get me wrong, I love the gameplay videos since I often get to learn about new WADs I've never heard of and I just enjoy watching you play Doom. I also enjoy the live-streams and watching you play insane multiplayer maps and challenging, grindy maps for hours on end. But these behind-the-scenes looks at the code and why the game works the way it does are what drew me to the channel in the first place and are infinitely fascinating to me and I love the little tidbits you add to the video like the little sound effects and subtle details like John Romero winking at us! These are truly great and endlessly entertaining and I am always excited when I see you've released a new one! Keep up the great work with these awesome behind-the-scenes videos and stay safe out there!
I love the flashbacks I get watching these videos. Not understanding how the little secret trigger thing worked at the time I spent hours lining myself up at a 1 or 2 degree angle and lightly tapping forward trying to trigger those unobtainable secrets. 😅
Thank you for making these vids, pumpkin man, they're immensely fun to watch, despite the fact I've never even thought of making a DOOM map or anything like that. Also this is a certified agonizing rectal pain moment
Ive seen people who respond to the knowledge of that email with the response "So many people were probably sending him Emails to ask about it that he just felt peer pressured into saying that. He really did do it as a joke."
Great video like always, decino. It's pretty cool to understand these small little errors that result into great accomplishments. I hope you have a good time, pumpkin man!
I was just watching your Analysis playlist last night hoping you'd do another one. Looking forward to this video! Any chance at an analysis of other 90s fps titles? I figure Doom only has so many topics.
Another idea for an analysis video is how secrets get removed from levels because of a mapping oversight. Requiem's Level 29 has an example of this - which can also be subverted by an Arch Vile jump
Decino you make some of the best vids on UA-cam ever you can make minutes feel like seconds, I wish you a great new year and I can’t wait for more awesome videos
Congrats on the merch store launch! 🥳 And thanks for facing the elemental pain of editing this video without becoming a burned out lost soul. It must have felt like touching a long-hidden, obscure secret. OK, I'll stop 😇
Your analysis and gameplay videos have kept my constant interest in this decades old game, and have inspired me to try my hand at making my own maps for it! Thanks for making them, I always look forward to learning more about this absolute classic!
1:03 Ffs I just started this and I almost choked on my pizza 🤣. ADD: it's actually hard to believe people believed John when he made the statement, of course it was just an oversight (albeit a big one, given 100%-ing games was kind of a big thing back then). Mech's looking alright, Arch shirt's tempting.
Doom 2, new enemies that influenced and created a timeless experience put together in less than a year. No QA and no beta testers. Diablo 4. Can't increase stash slots because the coding is so shit it has to load everyones stash. All enemies are the same. 6 Years+ and a team hundreds of times bigger than ID. decino, Patron saint of dooming - Does all his video stuff himself without a team, or help from his dog. He even has a store that sells stickers. And let's be honest that Archvile shirt is metal.
Your analysis videos are always great. Very informative, and edited just enough to be amusing without being distracting. The single tick door and pain elemental sounds got me.
I've played Doom for 25 years. And I've never noticed this SSG pixel before. You've just broken my worldview, and I don't know how to live with it and how to admit I was so blind for so many years... Thank you, Mr. Pumpkin man
Always love these analysis videos, so I'm very happy to see a new one for the first time in a hot minute. I distinctly remembered this secret being brought up during the speedrun completion videos, so it was pretty neat to come back to it and get a proper explanation on why having a lost soul exploding in your face makes this secret actually work properly.
Background song now available on Bandcamp:
decino.bandcamp.com/album/pumpkin-beats-to-analyse-to
Finally, the wait is over! 😍
Thank you very much sir Pumpkin Man 👌
I absolutely love how not only do you regularly ask Romero questions about obscure and specific things in a game that’s almost 30 years old, but that he actually regularly answers! He’s such a nice dude
Lately he has been streaming on Twitch under TheRomero, he's building Sigil 2 maps. His music is godlike and it's a very chill vibe. He's a really cool dude.
hes live streaming the map making of Sigil 2
"People give Romero crap for having an ego, but when this dude was like 21 he made the f***ing video game equivalent of Thriller." - CV-11, stimpak helmet torture mascot and based ass dude
@@thepolarphantasm2319 tbf if I had done that, I would probably have an ego too
Nah, he can go take his own advice and make himself his own female doggo, as Daikatana will forever suck thanks to him. 🥱
Fun fact: in the GBA port of Doom 2, they managed to fix this secret!
But inadvertently, they broke the teleporter by doing so. You win some, you lose some.
Ah, I remembered this level was in the GBA version (though I think it got split into two parts?), but wasn't in many of the other console-versions of that era.
I guess I'd rather have the secret work than the teleport, given @Decino says you can get to the area it takes you to via normal-means anyway
@@dftfire Yeah, they split it into two and actually added a unique section to the beginning of the second part. It's not long, but exclusive to that port!
And yeah, it's better that the secret works, though I think there's several other secrets you can't get in that port :D It's pretty broken in itself.
@@GermanPeter The GBA DOOM II, if I recall right, was not the DOOM Engine, but something called "SouthPaw" (or similar). So they essentially ported the levels, sprites, music and SFX over, but then had to make the AI, weapons, enemies and so-on all mimic DOOM II.
And it has that major-bug where your armour does not work in a level until you first collect an armour-bonus, I recall.
That teleporter was pretty useless anyway.
That's fascinating to know, since I have never and will never play the GBA port given that I have respect for my time
Speaking as a software tester it's amazing the DOOM developers had no QA and yet managed to release a game so good and with only a few oddball bugs like this.
It certainly helps to have Interdimensional Technomancer and Ferarri Enthusaist John Carmack on your team
@@liamaldrich2476Exactly, bro made a bomb to steal a high school computer. 😂
@@brodyspears8290Thermite paste which doesn’t explode, but yeah.
To be fair though John Carmack isnt really human...
@@liamaldrich2476 The biggest chad of all.
No bro Romero was being sarcastic with YOU in that email and his tweet was the real deal!!
:deciQualityPost:
Knowing the man, the myth, the legend as he is? Super possible. Or not. Depends on the time of day.
@@pokehybridtrainerand the phase of the moon
@@knuxenglish and the fact if he's painted his nails that morning or not.
what a twist!
Forcing a Pain Elemental at gunpoint to help you get a secret. Brutal.
It's even more brutal considering that PE is technically spawning a flaming skull inside the player and all to figure out "a puzzle", this is some Xenomorph/Hellraiser crossover nightmare fuel :)
@@demogorgonzola Either way I'm LMAO 🤣
We all know who was really behind it: the pain elemental. He wanted to feel useful, so he programmed John's mind to make the secret. Pain elemental didn't account for humanity's limited intelligence though, and it took decades to figure out.
Yo it's my guy!
Of course! Just look how he's excitedly dancing his arms, it's his time to shine.
That Pain Elemental is such a delinquent xD
the Secret Elemental! :)
.
.
.
(or perhaps just a secretary, lmao)
That's what THEY want you to think... :P
Can you imagine, the pain elemental knew about this all the time, and just didn't want to tell us
The pain elemental has been saying "down" in their pain state this whole time. It was a clue!
10:42 i am so relieved to hear the doom devs were kind enough to code in a function that does the thinking for me
Decino: 10 new enemies.
Hell knight in the bottom right corner: excuse me I’m here too.
Excellent summary, and great to know that John Romero was just being a silly guy and people were taking him too seriously. I always knew he had a sense of humor about stuff like this.
I do love there's some "gotta hand it to humanity, when they're bored, they'll make it their damnedest to make something work, until it doesn't or vice versa. ... or maybe go insane along the way trying"
Romero was the real talent
he got a kick out of replying with that response because he knew he's talking to a community of fucking nerds who struggle with straightforward social behaviour lmfao
I love these "what goes on behind the scenes in the engine code" videos, being a computer science major and programmer in college, these are one of the most delicious ones! ❤
Yeah... I'm not a coder, but many of them I can follow.
It would be great if he ever did a comparison between some of the code-differences between some of the console-ports of DOOM from the 90s and the DOS originals. Be interesting to know what some of the differences are, as I'd guess for the consoles parts of the code had to be re-written to further optimise it, and reduce complexity?
And I think Jaguar DOOM (which most other versions were built-from) is something like v1.4 of the DOOM Engine, I think? So when DOOM2 came to PlayStation and Saturn, what was done there? Did they code-in the new enemy behaviours and AIs on-top-of the Jaguar code, or was it a fresh port from a later version of the DOS DOOM code?
Good breakdown.
Door: Lost soul in the way.
Player: To the floor now. Also, you got a secret 🎉!
How about this:
Door: Lost soul detected! Must interrupt Doomguy thinker!
Doomguy: Sigh, guess I’m Going Down.
This is where going down gets hard
Thanks for the great video decino, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to draw your merch! It was a blast working on it and you ain't that bad of an artist yourself! I won't lie that 3:55 and 6:10 made me extremely happy :)
Decino's not a bad artist at all! I'm also an artist and I think he's quite good at drawing hands, which can be tough!
No its me! :)@@ExcessivePoison
Nerd...
gotta say, big fan of the absolute amount of CAKE doomguy has
5:06 watching the pain elemental walk up down the stairs, arms wobbling, shoot a Lost Soul and walk away is genuinely hilarious
I like watching you play levels, but this type of content is what I first came to you for. Great videos, Pumpkin Man!
definitely. always excited when these come out, but I love the almost daily doom content too
Man heard the music for TNTR Map06 and immediately used it for the next analysis I'm dead 💀
Good video
Love these analysis videos. Really shows the creative side of Decino.
And the depth of his understanding, and humor. Love it
One of the most annoying enemies being vital to solve a secret of years is so sweet. Pain Elemental for once not being a pain in the ass.
Ok, this is masterpiece. Almost no one is putting so much effort into his you tube videos these days without the whole crew.
How did you put chaingunner in your name?
@@thelettera582 he is a channel member, you have to pay to be one
@@ronkan1369 I didn't know it, thanks
This is the only channel where I sit through the Patreon segment. I'm a bit sad that the Agonizing Pain family shrunk a bit since the last one.
I still smile when I hear Riley!
And no more Turbine2k5
Personally, as a Finn, I still mourn the loss of the mention of rapuhotelli (crab hotel).
Ok now everything makes sense- the fact that it accidentally skips an entire check that updates the player's height is an hilarious solution on it's own- is also interesting to see how the doom code is organized, I think the way you showcased the functions like folders where you go deeper and deeper into the content is really neat! thank you decino :D
Now the real question is...how in the loving hell did zero master found this out???
But that is basically what this kind of code is?
Zero master probably ran a few demo runs for testing.
huge, MAGNANIMOUS ups to jon romero and others of the OG id team for still being active in the communities they spawned and answering questions from fans decades later.
With this, I have officially binged the entire Decino Analysis Playlist up to Jan 2024
What a gem of a UA-cam Channel
Soooooo this secret was almost entirely unobtainable if a pain elemental was never originally placed on this map during its creation. That's how close this secret was to never being obtainable.
It's not only a deathmatch thing, I suppose. I'm quite sure that the teleport pad is marked as a secret as a hidden method of easily traversing between the two parts of the map separated by the massive moat of magma in between, should you feel any need to cross the moat once again but need a much easier and safer method to do so.
Also, I haven't ever considered a combat armor crop top / bra on Doom guy, so thanks a bunch for burning that image into my head.
Its insane that people can actually figure this stuff out.
Doom's source code is very clever but also very concise, so people have seriously reverse-engineered it forwards and backwards.
Figuring out how it works when you can reproduce it every time and have access to the source code is pretty much guaranteed. My respect is for the guy who imagined how it *could* work.
You probably get this a lot, but my favourite thing about your videos is how you make a little custom map to demonstrate almost every concept you talk about. Even when it's as simple as like, a big long room with one enemy at the other end to demonstrate weapon spread, it makes a massive difference to understanding what all those numbers mean when they're actually crunched by the engine.
Also: good to hear you've been taking time to rest! Burnout is real and it can really sneak up on you, especially with self-employment-type stuff like UA-cam. And honestly, it's kinda worse if the thing that's burning you out is also "supposed to be" fun. So cheers to you!
6:54, finally, my 5 seconds of fame!
H
h
@@Hydronisa @KernelLeak 😂😂😂😂
e
The sequence in which the engines analyze and calculate things going on in games is a neverending source of funnies and derps. It's so rigid that you literally can't fathom how an obscure interaction can go wrong before testing in real time.
Computers are wacky.
Yeah, you can wind up with a lot of edge cases (literally in this case) that just go completely unnoticed even if you *do* have a QA department.
It's the second time I ate all the playlist for the analysis videos in a row, it's nice to see a new video for the list.
There's something relaxing in his speech and the comedy is top quality.
John Romero did us dirty for 24 years straight lmao
I suppose one potential use of this could be to fall down a long distance near instantly. Does it still happen if you're in the air?
Oh god, someone could use this as a way to make you dodge cyber rockets in a tight corridor. Sounds like rng hell, but it could be done.
Also happens when you're in the air. The "feature" has potential for sure for a very gimmicky map. I show a quick proof of concept before the outro section.
I just LOVE the little sounds you add when you talk about enemies or things, sometimes less than a second
it's peak comedy for me
The visual gag at 7:59 got a bigger chuckle out of me than any other thinking emoji joke.
Thanks for another great and indepth analysis video! Very interesting to finally understand how this secret works exactly. Even though I 'performed' the secret earlier this year, I honestly had no idea the opening/closing door was a part of triggering it 😅
Also, I can vouch for the merch! 😎
I was always interested in learning how this secret trigger worked, thank you so much for the in-depth explanation. It made it real easy to understand what makes it tick. I really do wonder if someone will sneak it into a megaWAD now!
Only Ribbiks could ever do something so nefarious.
Oh, it's been a while since we had some good old explanatory video. And just when I started to think this way BOOM! It shows up. Perhaps, other fans were more vocal with their thoughts, I guess.
Well, while I am not going to repeat that achievement myself, Igor some strange feel of joy. Pretty much the same feeling I got when read about making of Aliens by J.Cameron and his team. How they were filming stuff, mixing explosives for special effects, creating the weaponry, training the actors with royal marines. And, of course, props to patrons. I'm so glad that Beaks and Pain are still around.
Oh, this midi... An extra pleasure.
Oh no, I never noticed this infuriating pixel on Super Shotgun and lived in peace. Now I'll be seeing it every single time, forever.
Decino, your analysis vids are some of the best Doom content around, period. I look forward to every one of these. I also get the fact that they can be really time-consuming (your work ethic shows clearly here), and so I'm glad that you're being mindful of your time and energy in terms of what types of content you do and when. Keep up the awesome work. Also, that ARCH shirt design is great!
Decino has seriously upped his production values when now there are gorgeously-detailed hand-drawn skits
The pain elemental is my second favorute demon in the game, just behind the Cyberdemon. Just... Look at him. His thematic conception (Or as people call it, the lore) is that it's a creature constantly in pain and suffering, knowing nothing more than torment and spawning angry souls... But it's just so HAPPY all the time. Like a little grandpa going on a morning walk in early fall to buy some cupcakes from the bakery his beloved wife owns, because he wants to surprise her.
Look at his walk animation. He's so cute.
But but but how can a Lost Soul override the player's Z-value if Doom is actually only 2D? /s
There's a reason why Doom is like "2.5" cause it does have like 3D space, just not 3D models and such.
Like if I remember correctly, these line based engines render 2D level data as 3D environments
@@Kyezoar really even the level data ain't really 2d, it just defines its 3d data in a really strange way - by extrusion, effectively
@@hi-i-am-atan It's jank and bizarre, but I still love how it looks
Because Doom is only 1.5D like Sandy told us.
@@hi-i-am-atan we could also consider Doom's 3D as a special case of the "real 3D", just like Newtoniam mechanics can be thought as a special case for the more generalized relativistic Einsteinian space-time - for what it is supposed to do it works just fine :)
You did very good decino, in addresing all the limitations the iD guys had when making maps! Sometimes when you play the game and see stuff, for example, pinkies blocking each ohter (for being placed in the same exact spot) you are like "hey, how could the devs do this? That is so lame/cheap of them" but knowing the context gives you a whole different POV. Yes, those mistakes aren't cool, but it's pretty likely thay any of us would have commited the same mistakes (under those circumstances)
Now 4 a different topic: 11:04 this mad me remember that in one ocassion Coincident experimented something similar but with a Radiation Suit Zone 300's MAP13
We got a Tooshie appearance! My day is made.
Very interesting and very cool! This was worth the wait.
So, if the secrets were triggered by just checking if the player bounding box is overlapping any part of a secret sector, regardless of height, would that fix the various broken secrets in Doom 2, Ultimate Doom, etc.? It looks like the requirement for the player origin to actually touch the secret sector is what makes the secrets in E4M3, MAP15, and MAP27 problematic.
Great find by ZeroMaster, great analysis by decino. Was worth waiting!
Good thing there is a pain elemental on this map, otherwise we would never get this gem. And of course major props to Zero Master for discovering and you ducino for making another banger video.
Btw 6:50 very cute model for showing off merch, makes me want to find a "epic doom gf"
Rip the agonizing family. Fell down to just two members again.
Consistently love the way you dismantle these bugs piece by piece to find which interactions cause them, then rebuild them in a test level so we can see exactly what's going on at every step. DOOM itself might be old, but there's a wealth of game design and QA skills to be learned from it, and YOU are helping to make that knowledge available Pumpkin Man! Keep it up!
I'm currently studying C++ programming and that is making it a heck of a lot easier for me to understand these videos
Thank you pumpkin man!
Crazy how much you learn from a 30 year old game. As always love these videos. Still remember naive 10 year old me seeing their first Pain Elemental and being absolutely shocked and grossed by it's appearance. When you try and picture these floating outside of your window in real life it's really kind of freaky.
thank you for this video! love your use of sound effects as always.
I love the drawings of you, please (if you could) make more
Debugging is normally tedious and boring but you make it interesting. Another great video.
merch and detailing the most broken secret, this is worth it :D
good job pumpkin man
love this type of videos! thanks a lot decino. Also the jokes and the animation were epic
This is well-timed given Zero Master just got legit 100% kill run of E1M8, killing all the enemies in the "Death room" at the end. Coincidence?
That's a different doom youtuber
Different than decino yes, but the same guy who discovered this secret.
@@ji604 Yes, Coincidence is a different Doomer.
Yours sincerely,
Mr. Dyslexic
@@E5raelNot sure if trolling, but Coincident is their name, "[Is this a] coincidence?" is what I meant. Just trying to make more sense and provide correct information.
Now, if I'd said "Decino eating a face rocket... Coincident?" 😅
@@ji604 I knew his name is Coincident, not Coincidence. 😉 I was just being "dyslexic" for the sake of a lame joke, hence the "yours sincerely" part to hammer the joke home.
Fun facy: the A R C H shirt has a small chance to induce a small ptsd attack in classic doom players, the easiest way to see this is to use a TAS and manipulate the rng table correctly
Production is next-level on this one, it was worth the wait and I'll probably buy some of your merch
These are the videos I love most! Don't get me wrong, I love the gameplay videos since I often get to learn about new WADs I've never heard of and I just enjoy watching you play Doom. I also enjoy the live-streams and watching you play insane multiplayer maps and challenging, grindy maps for hours on end. But these behind-the-scenes looks at the code and why the game works the way it does are what drew me to the channel in the first place and are infinitely fascinating to me and I love the little tidbits you add to the video like the little sound effects and subtle details like John Romero winking at us! These are truly great and endlessly entertaining and I am always excited when I see you've released a new one! Keep up the great work with these awesome behind-the-scenes videos and stay safe out there!
I love the flashbacks I get watching these videos. Not understanding how the little secret trigger thing worked at the time I spent hours lining myself up at a 1 or 2 degree angle and lightly tapping forward trying to trigger those unobtainable secrets. 😅
I have been watching decino since he did his valiant playthrough and he has just gotten better
awesome video, you are getting better at this, real joy to watch :)
Thank you for making these vids, pumpkin man, they're immensely fun to watch, despite the fact I've never even thought of making a DOOM map or anything like that.
Also this is a certified agonizing rectal pain moment
Ive seen people who respond to the knowledge of that email with the response "So many people were probably sending him Emails to ask about it that he just felt peer pressured into saying that. He really did do it as a joke."
My response to that is "John Romero feels peer pressure?".
6:27 now we want a shirt with the doomguy crossing the linedef to spawn extra revenants
Great video like always, decino. It's pretty cool to understand these small little errors that result into great accomplishments. I hope you have a good time, pumpkin man!
0:16 new enemies with beautiful sprite work
Hell Knight in the corner: hey what about me?
This community constantly amazes me with it's dedication, skill and passion. Zero Master is just incredible.
Imp Cliff is a T-shirt? I'm in!
So doors can crush items? That's news to me. Thanks :)
Only items dropped by monsters.
THIS is what i've subscribed for, it's been so long but the wait was worth it.
Excellent description and analysis, as usual. :) Cheers!
I was just watching your Analysis playlist last night hoping you'd do another one.
Looking forward to this video!
Any chance at an analysis of other 90s fps titles? I figure Doom only has so many topics.
Another idea for an analysis video is how secrets get removed from levels because of a mapping oversight. Requiem's Level 29 has an example of this - which can also be subverted by an Arch Vile jump
Decino you make some of the best vids on UA-cam ever you can make minutes feel like seconds, I wish you a great new year and I can’t wait for more awesome videos
Man it feels like 42 weeks since I saw that distinctive yellow background in my sub feed.
Great video! You used map 6 midi of tnt revolution
That one stuck with me!
Congrats on the merch store launch! 🥳 And thanks for facing the elemental pain of editing this video without becoming a burned out lost soul. It must have felt like touching a long-hidden, obscure secret. OK, I'll stop 😇
Your analysis and gameplay videos have kept my constant interest in this decades old game, and have inspired me to try my hand at making my own maps for it! Thanks for making them, I always look forward to learning more about this absolute classic!
I had an awful headache today and seeing this in my recommended after having just gotten over it was a nice reward
1:03 Ffs I just started this and I almost choked on my pizza 🤣. ADD: it's actually hard to believe people believed John when he made the statement, of course it was just an oversight (albeit a big one, given 100%-ing games was kind of a big thing back then). Mech's looking alright, Arch shirt's tempting.
And when the world needed him most, he returned
ty decino dor all your work you do for us :)
8:37 You played that sound exactly as I anticipated thank you
Doom 2, new enemies that influenced and created a timeless experience put together in less than a year. No QA and no beta testers.
Diablo 4. Can't increase stash slots because the coding is so shit it has to load everyones stash. All enemies are the same. 6 Years+ and a team hundreds of times bigger than ID.
decino, Patron saint of dooming - Does all his video stuff himself without a team, or help from his dog. He even has a store that sells stickers.
And let's be honest that Archvile shirt is metal.
I would love to know what Zero Master's day job is.
Your analysis videos are always great. Very informative, and edited just enough to be amusing without being distracting. The single tick door and pain elemental sounds got me.
It's been a while since I've watched these videos. I enjoyed this one.
I've played Doom for 25 years. And I've never noticed this SSG pixel before. You've just broken my worldview, and I don't know how to live with it and how to admit I was so blind for so many years... Thank you, Mr. Pumpkin man
It's impressive that Doom and Doom 2 have so little bugs. Speaks to the dedication of the entire team at id.
Always a pleasure to watch your video Decino.
Straight up the analysis videos are my favorite and basically the only ones I watch
What's the map at 7:59?
Took me a minute to figure out, but it's Go 2 It!
@@BrianM_3rd Thanks
Legend says decino will heart this comment.
Okay 4 minutes later i thought you were dead lol. When's the new analysis video?
When it's done.
@@decinoin africa every 60 seconds a minute pass (jk take your time)
Love these videos, thank you pumpkin man!
Oh man, this is the kind of videos that make me smile. Man, I want a t-shirt so bad of your merch. Good work as always :).
Always love these analysis videos, so I'm very happy to see a new one for the first time in a hot minute.
I distinctly remembered this secret being brought up during the speedrun completion videos, so it was pretty neat to come back to it and get a proper explanation on why having a lost soul exploding in your face makes this secret actually work properly.
Great video as always, also thank you for adding subtitles!
Man what a cool video, I really enjoy your analisys videos :)
Great to see another analysis video and glad you took some time for your mental health