If you’re doing that you should definitely do an alignment since the bushings always have a bit of play or tolerance in it and position you are tightening it in again might be different than how it was before
@@homelessdrifter9508 That was my point, doesn't matter if you fit lowering springs, fit coilovers, just replace a bush, whatever. It will affect the alignment.
yes! am mechanic, can verify. whenever u install new bushings/control arms or adjust suspension, u want to to do this. make sure to torque when there's wieght on these components.
i was lucky to all ways be shown that way of doing things, even when replacing control arms i was always taught to preload it before tightening so it sits how it should do already before being put back on the grouns
Never thought this tbh if had to do control arms bolts should do your antiroll bar bolts too. Is true the bushes would be pulled up on lowering springs
My drop links are on ball joints so don’t need doing, however if you lower your car enough you’ll need shorter arb drop links to prevent it hitting things and being too stressed. Yeah your bushings will be under tension when just sitting then excess tension when driving causing them to fail earlier. There’s lots of information online but nobody on UA-cam talks about this
@@Josh.Sandersonhow to know do I need shorter or longer drop links? I fitted lowering springs, this means that drop link mount hole on the shocks went higher towards ARB, isn’t it? So I need longer drop links, otherwise stock drop links will pull ARB up more than should be, when put car on its weight. By fitting longer drop links, ARB will stay at its usual hight. Am i wrong? I am talking about Vauxhall/Opel Insignia. By looking underneath, I can see ARB higher, on bumps touching car’s body. I presume that, because there is a clunk when getting into potholes sometimes. And that clunk is happening right in the moment when wheel is coming up after pothole. It is just couple of days since installed lowering springs, so keep looking. Did alignment, things improved, but still on big potholes, it clunks. Tomorrow will replace drop links with longer ones by 35mm. Hope it will help. Do you reckon even if I did the alignment yesterday, and will do control arms tighten like in your video tomorrow, should be done another alignment after? Many thanks 😁👍
@@terranoid7300 hey man I think you’ll need shorter arb drop links as the gap between your two drop link mounts has gotten smaller. Adjustable ones are ideal to make sure it’s spot on!
This is exactly what I didn’t do when I replaced all suspension components to my front end lmao, I just sent some ugga tuggas and called it a day 😂😂😭😭😮💨 imma die
Extended tie rods are only really good for lifted vehicles. Ive noticed suspension geometry tends to move caster enough when lowering and introducing negative camber, that the toe gets pulled too far out for adjustment on the stock tierod. I actually had to cut my tierods when i lowered my cappuccino for that very reason.
And dont forget the load-dependent brake force distributor for the rear brakes if the car has one. The extra brake force will ruin your tires and brakes and you will notice that when you brake and suddenly are turned 180 degrees 😂
Preloading is what i call it.for those that dont have ramps or lift you can preload you strut assembly by putting trolley jack under you lower arm or hub and jack up to take weight and load then retighten you bolts.this benefits cars that arent lowered aswell.
The key is that your bushings arent pre sprung before you reach ride height. That tension on the bushings before you set the car at ride height is unwanted. They'll be harsh and tear sooner. Again the tension of the bushing should be applied with the car AT RIDE HEIGHT!
Slight error in what you said which could spell disaster for someone following your advice... Loosening and then retightening bolts that have a torque spec that includes an angle (TTY, or torque-to-yield) is a big no-no. These are to be used only once. After they are torqued to their elastic yield, they cannot be torqued again to the same spec, as this would stretch them well beyond their yield limit, which not only precludes their ability of providing the necessary clamping force that the assembly was designed for (in this case meaning the bushing is not being held in the subframe as tightly as is needed to prevent rotation under suspension articulation), but also in all likelihood could result in the bolts snapping upon retightening to the factory spec. Any fastener that has "tighten to xx Nm, then a further xx degrees" is a torque to yield fastener. If you look at them when new, and then after you've installed them correctly and then removed them again, they won't look the same. They will literally have reduced in diameter, usually in the unthreaded shoulder, as they have been stretched. If your FSM requires angle torquing for suspension fasteners, it is imperative that new fasteners are used when carrying out this admittedly important step when lowering/lifting a vehicle.
This should always be done when installing control arms and using the oem specifications, not doing this can cause the bushings to bind up and fail prematurely.
damn, i sort of knew this because its the procedure when installing new parts but never thought to actually go do it on pre existing parts, which is dumb of me and its obvious now
i understand the logic, and i believed in it, but 7 years ago i had lazy mechanic changing LCArms on my car and when I saw he tightened them in the air I confronted him. he sad "i am not going to lay down, you can do it if you want"... so I left it that way. Now after 7 years those arms are still in place strong and not destroyed. So even if this sounds like something nice to tweet about, the rubber used on them is simply good and there is no need to do this.
That’s only one case though could well be an exception, my dad had arms replaced by a local garage who tightened them in the air and all 3 times the brand new arms lasted months
I have been doing this for a long while. I always cringed when people installed new control arms and tighten the with the suspension fully extended. Those bushing are getting a beating for sure when you don't tighten them at their normal sitting position
It’s for bolts that stretch and don’t return to their original size once used. So do it up to the torque spec then rotate the bolt an extra 90 degrees to finish off
Ignore all the idiots this is sound advice even if your only replacing an arm NEVER tighten a bush without weight on the car otherwise when you lower it you bush is already flexed without the cars movement
They're basic car ramps like this : amzn.to/45oPVTc However I just used my buddys like this and they're so much better: amzn.to/3IBEf5S If you order through these links I get a tiny commission from amazon
Yup! The worst practises on cars I’ve always seen at garages, one did a service on my mums car and didn’t tighten the drain plug so all the oil fell out
Forgetting one step!! Leave the nut and bolt totally loose and roll the car one full rotation of the wheel (half forward and half backward again is okay). If you've ever worked on a car with a floor jack, you know when the car sits on the ground again, the wheels prevent the ride height from totally settling. If you do this without rolling, you're not tightening the bushing in the right spot and you will have premature failure.
I totally noticed this when I replaced my suspension components...the car sat an inch higher until I rolled it. And then the suspension settled down. I just don't know if that one inch height difference would be enough to cause undue stress on the bushings and premature failure like you're saying 🤷♂️ But maybe you know better. I'm a rookie
You can simple jack up the hub while doing this no need to apply the weight for this application, then tighten to spec...he doesn't know that many cars will require you to loosen the control arm anyway to get the bolts aligned properly anyway...especially for the rear
You can but if you’re working underneath the car you don’t want it jacked up by one hub, also it will begin to take more weight than it should it just resting on the ground if you Jack to high, and not enough weight if you don’t Jack enough. So I don’t know why you wouldn’t just lower it onto to ramps like I did to make sure it’s actually the same load as it will be sitting on the road. In the video I literally covered how you should loosen then tighten the control arm bolts that’s what the short is about so I’m not entirely sure what your point is
basically your bushings will be constantly under strain when the car is just sitting, then when the suspension components move the bushings will be more stressed than theyre are designed to be. Worst case you will wear through bushings way faster than you should be doing. Hope this helps man
I want to understand this and I want to further my knowledge on cars, but I'm too lazy to Google what adding 30nm or 90° on a bolt are *65nm Okay, so using common sense and an educated guess, I'm assuming he's talking about using the torque wrench and the 65nm is the measurements and then also adding the 90° after
you DONT need to lower your car ! 9 times out of ten it just destroys the ride of your car and put wear on suspension and tires ! not to mention everytime you hit a bump you wreck the underneath !
You definitely don’t need to lower your car, but if you decide to you need to rearrange bushings. There’s is pros and cons to lowering but if you want a cleaner stance and better handling then most people deal with the lack of comfort and going 0.5 mph over speed bumps lol
@@Josh.Sanderson been an auto tech for 38 years I have seen may 1 or two cars lowered properly, and sorry to say how fast do you think your going to take turns in the city or highway? only place it benifits is the track , the rest of the time your only opening up a can of worms
@@peterpeter5666 what do you mean by properly? I know Two automotive engineers with lowered cars but each to their own. I don’t live in a city here there’s a lot of open country roads with National speed limits I often explore the limits of my handling. But each to their own the beauty is everyone can do whatever they like!
@@Josh.Sanderson you’re 100% right. They just need to know what the actions are attributed to. Maybe add the word somewhere in there. Education is how we progress things!
Lol I remember having this argument with people 20 years ago. Finally some random person on the internet agrees with me.
😂😂😂
Great minds think alike
The only bushing that don’t need preload are spherical
I swear that advice was going to be "don't"
Seriously. If you wanna lower your daily driver. Especially on a tight budget, just don't lol
@@yrboogiemn yup, learned that the hard way
If you’re doing that you should definitely do an alignment since the bushings always have a bit of play or tolerance in it and position you are tightening it in again might be different than how it was before
Should be done regardless of loosening your bushes, new suspension is new suspension.
@@AlexYeetsalso lowering you car will affect the alignment anyways
@@homelessdrifter9508 That was my point, doesn't matter if you fit lowering springs, fit coilovers, just replace a bush, whatever. It will affect the alignment.
yes! am mechanic, can verify. whenever u install new bushings/control arms or adjust suspension, u want to to do this. make sure to torque when there's wieght on these components.
*Installs polyurethane bushings instead* 🗿
It's not just if you're lowering your car but whenever you undo or remove/replace any parts on your wishbones ie bushes.
That’s true should’ve mentioned that
i was lucky to all ways be shown that way of doing things, even when replacing control arms i was always taught to preload it before tightening so it sits how it should do already before being put back on the grouns
Me too man, very lucky I was told about this when I first did my control arm bushings, hopefully I can help a couple people who have never been told
@@Josh.Sanderson Teach em the way brother!
What a G. Fantastic advice dude.
Never thought this tbh if had to do control arms bolts should do your antiroll bar bolts too.
Is true the bushes would be pulled up on lowering springs
My drop links are on ball joints so don’t need doing, however if you lower your car enough you’ll need shorter arb drop links to prevent it hitting things and being too stressed. Yeah your bushings will be under tension when just sitting then excess tension when driving causing them to fail earlier. There’s lots of information online but nobody on UA-cam talks about this
@@Josh.Sandersonhow to know do I need shorter or longer drop links? I fitted lowering springs, this means that drop link mount hole on the shocks went higher towards ARB, isn’t it? So I need longer drop links, otherwise stock drop links will pull ARB up more than should be, when put car on its weight. By fitting longer drop links, ARB will stay at its usual hight. Am i wrong? I am talking about Vauxhall/Opel Insignia. By looking underneath, I can see ARB higher, on bumps touching car’s body. I presume that, because there is a clunk when getting into potholes sometimes. And that clunk is happening right in the moment when wheel is coming up after pothole.
It is just couple of days since installed lowering springs, so keep looking. Did alignment, things improved, but still on big potholes, it clunks.
Tomorrow will replace drop links with longer ones by 35mm. Hope it will help.
Do you reckon even if I did the alignment yesterday, and will do control arms tighten like in your video tomorrow, should be done another alignment after?
Many thanks 😁👍
@@terranoid7300 hey man I think you’ll need shorter arb drop links as the gap between your two drop link mounts has gotten smaller. Adjustable ones are ideal to make sure it’s spot on!
This is top advice. Thanks mate 👍🏼
This is exactly what I didn’t do when I replaced all suspension components to my front end lmao, I just sent some ugga tuggas and called it a day 😂😂😭😭😮💨 imma die
I would think it's pretty common practice than any bushing or anything that is loaded by the suspension, should be tightened with weight on it.
You’d be surprised!
you should also mention getting extended tie rods if possible so that it corrects your geometry after lowering your car
Worth mentioning for certain!
Sway bar links as well
Extended tie rods are only really good for lifted vehicles. Ive noticed suspension geometry tends to move caster enough when lowering and introducing negative camber, that the toe gets pulled too far out for adjustment on the stock tierod.
I actually had to cut my tierods when i lowered my cappuccino for that very reason.
@@jasonthomas4895 why would you lower a coffee?
@@Professor-Scientist was that a joke or serious question?
And dont forget the load-dependent brake force distributor for the rear brakes if the car has one.
The extra brake force will ruin your tires and brakes and you will notice that when you brake and suddenly are turned 180 degrees 😂
Dude being born, and starts arguing a point straightaway
Preloading is what i call it.for those that dont have ramps or lift you can preload you strut assembly by putting trolley jack under you lower arm or hub and jack up to take weight and load then retighten you bolts.this benefits cars that arent lowered aswell.
The key is that your bushings arent pre sprung before you reach ride height. That tension on the bushings before you set the car at ride height is unwanted. They'll be harsh and tear sooner. Again the tension of the bushing should be applied with the car AT RIDE HEIGHT!
Imagine forgetting about them later
Torque to yield bolts should be replaced 👍
Slight error in what you said which could spell disaster for someone following your advice...
Loosening and then retightening bolts that have a torque spec that includes an angle (TTY, or torque-to-yield) is a big no-no. These are to be used only once. After they are torqued to their elastic yield, they cannot be torqued again to the same spec, as this would stretch them well beyond their yield limit, which not only precludes their ability of providing the necessary clamping force that the assembly was designed for (in this case meaning the bushing is not being held in the subframe as tightly as is needed to prevent rotation under suspension articulation), but also in all likelihood could result in the bolts snapping upon retightening to the factory spec.
Any fastener that has "tighten to xx Nm, then a further xx degrees" is a torque to yield fastener. If you look at them when new, and then after you've installed them correctly and then removed them again, they won't look the same. They will literally have reduced in diameter, usually in the unthreaded shoulder, as they have been stretched.
If your FSM requires angle torquing for suspension fasteners, it is imperative that new fasteners are used when carrying out this admittedly important step when lowering/lifting a vehicle.
You are 100% correct lol but yeah never have and never will replace all those nuts and bolts, an extra ugga dugga and its good.
Does this relate to removing and reinstalling spark plugs (the same ones) multiple times?
This should always be done when installing control arms and using the oem specifications, not doing this can cause the bushings to bind up and fail prematurely.
damn, i sort of knew this because its the procedure when installing new parts but never thought to actually go do it on pre existing parts, which is dumb of me and its obvious now
Thanks brother!
Yeah there is alot of lost important information, preloading the bushings correctly will stop the bushings splitting/ripping
I’m like 90% certain that you should only do this when you have new bushings.
i understand the logic, and i believed in it, but 7 years ago i had lazy mechanic changing LCArms on my car and when I saw he tightened them in the air I confronted him. he sad "i am not going to lay down, you can do it if you want"... so I left it that way. Now after 7 years those arms are still in place strong and not destroyed. So even if this sounds like something nice to tweet about, the rubber used on them is simply good and there is no need to do this.
That’s only one case though could well be an exception, my dad had arms replaced by a local garage who tightened them in the air and all 3 times the brand new arms lasted months
I never would have thought of that
Lowering your car! Your hit every speed bump in the UK, best of luck with that then.👌🙈👍 good tech advice through.!
I have been doing this for a long while.
I always cringed when people installed new control arms and tighten the with the suspension fully extended. Those bushing are getting a beating for sure when you don't tighten them at their normal sitting position
I heard about it fairly recent and couldn’t believe no one mentions it in coilover install videos!
Well I’ve driven 40k on my BC’s without doing that without any torn or cracked bushings so far 🤷🏼♂️ but good to know
Luck doesn’t prove a point you will go through bushings faster although saying that I don’t know 1 series suspension too well
Doing control arms on my f30 this weekend lol thats why i have steering wheel shaking
Those bolts can't be reused. Torquing was useless.
Found this out far too late 😂
If you don't understand the basics of torque to yeild bolts, why should anyone trust your suspension advice?
@@hufman9807 the basics of not knowing it was a stretch bolt, does any of that make the information given incorrect?
@@hufman9807 just tranna help people man, you’re more than welcome to make your own videos
@@Josh.Sanderson be careful what you confidently share, it could get somebody hurt one day.
Tighten the bolts while the car is in the air for more ride height clearance
they're trying to avoid exactly that
Worst advice ever just wear the bushings out
Ummm I suppose I should go and do this, lowered my first car 3 months ago and I did have to replace the anti roll bar bushings after a month
Might help hahaa but make sure you check if they’re stretch bolts. If they are you’ll have to replace the bolts
Do you still do this steps when you do any suspensions?
Yeah bud
Finally someone one said it I always watch videos of people lowering there cars and that's it
You should be replacing those tty bolts.
How do you know they're ttw?
@@EddSjo because I spend a lot of time working on BMW cars and e90 control arm bolts are tty.
👌
What about vehicles that adjusts alignments through those bolts
Same principle however they’ll need to be aligned afterwards of course
Preload needs to be removed everywhere when doing this, if you get your car corner balanced, typically part of the work is removing preload
Can you link the ramps you're using please
Sorry for the late reply mate, my specific ones aren't for sale anymore it looks like however these seem just the same amzn.to/3k98cB4
What is this degrees thing? I hear this alot, plus i only have a normal torque wrench from 40-210 nm
It’s for bolts that stretch and don’t return to their original size once used. So do it up to the torque spec then rotate the bolt an extra 90 degrees to finish off
Ignore all the idiots this is sound advice even if your only replacing an arm NEVER tighten a bush without weight on the car otherwise when you lower it you bush is already flexed without the cars movement
Hahaha deffo learnt about stretch bolts now but the info is still true
I feel like this is because most people just toss lowering springs/coilovers or bags on and just send it.
Couldn't find Newton meters so I used Einstein meters instead.
This commwnt fkin killed me .🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
what javk stands are those?
They're basic car ramps like this : amzn.to/45oPVTc
However I just used my buddys like this and they're so much better:
amzn.to/3IBEf5S
If you order through these links I get a tiny commission from amazon
Does this apply to all bolts holding in the control arm? Also, to the top & bottom arms if you have both?
Yeah mate and bushings that aren’t ball joints need preloading
@@Josh.Sanderson ahhh I see. So isn’t this essentially just preloading your control arms? Or am I wrong?
@@seanturk yeah as that’s the only bolts I had to undo whilst lowerinf
@@Josh.Sanderson Yeah after doing some more research, I saw stuff about preloading the control arms. So makes sense now what’s going on.
Lets be honest most mechanics are still tightneing those bushing with the wheel dangling in the air 😂
Yup! The worst practises on cars I’ve always seen at garages, one did a service on my mums car and didn’t tighten the drain plug so all the oil fell out
@@Josh.Sanderson shocking yet so common. Diy is the way
@@Safsbmwlife yeah Atleast then you know what you’ve done wrong
dont undo them completly tho, just loosen the bolts and nuts.
otherwise you'll have a bad time
Forgetting one step!! Leave the nut and bolt totally loose and roll the car one full rotation of the wheel (half forward and half backward again is okay). If you've ever worked on a car with a floor jack, you know when the car sits on the ground again, the wheels prevent the ride height from totally settling. If you do this without rolling, you're not tightening the bushing in the right spot and you will have premature failure.
I totally noticed this when I replaced my suspension components...the car sat an inch higher until I rolled it. And then the suspension settled down. I just don't know if that one inch height difference would be enough to cause undue stress on the bushings and premature failure like you're saying 🤷♂️
But maybe you know better. I'm a rookie
You can simple jack up the hub while doing this no need to apply the weight for this application, then tighten to spec...he doesn't know that many cars will require you to loosen the control arm anyway to get the bolts aligned properly anyway...especially for the rear
You can but if you’re working underneath the car you don’t want it jacked up by one hub, also it will begin to take more weight than it should it just resting on the ground if you Jack to high, and not enough weight if you don’t Jack enough. So I don’t know why you wouldn’t just lower it onto to ramps like I did to make sure it’s actually the same load as it will be sitting on the road. In the video I literally covered how you should loosen then tighten the control arm bolts that’s what the short is about so I’m not entirely sure what your point is
@@Josh.Sandersonfcp euro does it the way I described when replacing the bushings, they pply this weight by jacking up the hub
Poly & spherical bushings..
I always just used lithium grease on the bushings and then set her down and let them dry.
I between the bushings and the housing?
@@Josh.Sanderson In between the inner bushing hole and the subframe, then when you set it down it’ll slip and dry in its final resting position.
Best way is to not lower the car to begin with or do more than just a set of lowering springs because otherwise it ruins the car
Why does lowering a car ruin it?
Would you want to do this when installing lowering springs?
Yeah whenever you’re taking off these parts and reinstalling or moving the sitting ride height
I guess it's an issue that no one is talking about how he just re tightened torque to yield bolts that are 1 use...
Haha I have been told multiple times
True spindle drop is theonly true and safeway to drop the whole frount center of gravity leaving u with full suspension travel
Yeeep that's the proper way
But then there is no working room if you put weight on the wheels. How?
can u maybe explain why
or swap all bushes out for monoballs
No one talks about this…………talks about it.😀😉
Somebody’s got to!
Also you need some new bolts
Uh…. Never knew…..
Easy solution: Don't lower your car, or at least don't lower it that much. I doubt if you only go 10mm lower you will be doing any damage to bushings.
Why use a jack though? Why don't you just bench press it?
This can’t make too huge of a difference right?
basically your bushings will be constantly under strain when the car is just sitting, then when the suspension components move the bushings will be more stressed than theyre are designed to be. Worst case you will wear through bushings way faster than you should be doing. Hope this helps man
Protect oil pan
I want to understand this and I want to further my knowledge on cars, but I'm too lazy to Google what adding 30nm or 90° on a bolt are
*65nm
Okay, so using common sense and an educated guess, I'm assuming he's talking about using the torque wrench and the 65nm is the measurements and then also adding the 90° after
😂😂😂
Correct mate yes
Man them static boys don’t care about that they barely care about how their car looks except that it’s slammed
you DONT need to lower your car ! 9 times out of ten it just destroys the ride of your car and put wear on suspension and tires ! not to mention everytime you hit a bump you wreck the underneath !
You definitely don’t need to lower your car, but if you decide to you need to rearrange bushings. There’s is pros and cons to lowering but if you want a cleaner stance and better handling then most people deal with the lack of comfort and going 0.5 mph over speed bumps lol
@@Josh.Sanderson been an auto tech for 38 years I have seen may 1 or two cars lowered properly, and sorry to say how fast do you think your going to take turns in the city or highway? only place it benifits is the track , the rest of the time your only opening up a can of worms
@@peterpeter5666 what do you mean by properly? I know Two automotive engineers with lowered cars but each to their own. I don’t live in a city here there’s a lot of open country roads with National speed limits I often explore the limits of my handling. But each to their own the beauty is everyone can do whatever they like!
They really don’t and it makes all the difference
No one talks about it because it's common sense. Welcome to baseline intelligence.
Ok but I lift a car bc I don’t fit under it. Not to create more work. So… no
Technically he’s not wrong but that’s doing too much
Just explain you need preload proper terminology or you’re doing and saying nothing.
Thanks for taking the time to comment, but the video is aimed at people that might not know what preload means
@@Josh.Sanderson you’re 100% right. They just need to know what the actions are attributed to. Maybe add the word somewhere in there. Education is how we progress things!
Them bolts are single use they stretch to yield and need replacing after being loosened.
whys that
And if you leave it the way the ENGINEERS DESIGNED IT you wouldn't have to worry about premature wear or damage.
Engineers design things for cheap production, comfortable handling, and good mpg. I’m not bothered about any of that
And the same still stands if you need to replace stock suspension parts
even with lowering springs ?
Yeah mate, anything that you need to remove these parts
And you use a shit torque wrench🤣🤣🤣🥰
Whats that got to do with anything 😂😂😂 I’m sure you’ve got snap on
@@Josh.Sandersonsykes pickavant
@@Burnersforvanlife well done
And go back over this bolts in a month
😂😂😂🤡
don’t lower your car, it’s not worth it.
trust me i know. I had a lowered car for years .
I did this with my miata 🫡
Why do we need to talk about something that’s common sense. If you don’t do that your thrust arms will blow in the first 1000 miles
I just use lowering springs not coilovers
The point is still the same. If you’re lowering it your bushes will need resetting as the resting position of the arms will be different