As much as I've always found UD to be the most boring and stale race to play/watch, this seems a bit much. Seeing dk/lich/ghoul/destro almost every game, regardless of matchup or even the enemy army composition, isn't just because it's insanely strong, it's also because so much of the rest of the UD roster is underwhelming af. Taking power from ghouls/lich and putting it into aboms/frost wyrms is something, but it kinda feels like the only change this patch will accomplish is UD continuing to field the same army but be weaker.
Really appreciated the video, thanks a lot. For a random guy whose passion for wcr3 got recently reignited, this channel is just GOLD. As a NE enjoyers I was hoping for less of a general buff and more of specific ones towards neglected units. Still, it is crazy that the same game I was playing over 10 years ago gets balanced in 2024. Grateful for that. Viel Spaß mit der neuer patch
That Wand if Negation is doomed. Blizzard always nerf to abyss or remove every relevant thing that Undead players use. If they are saying ahead of time that they may remove, it is doomed.
@@Igorekx agree, the only race who selle tp immedietly to just stay in the game have no luxury to purchase 150g item for 2 dispels. While at the same time orcs refuse to buy 75 dusts vs shade while floating 600+ gold over ud
OK, i gathered 11 months of TP league (2 seasons 4 month each) and AllStar League (1 season, 3 month) = 1275 games (i didnt count auto-surrenders, only real games played). 3 tournaments were on 1.35.0 patch, 3 on and 1.36.0, 5 on 1.36.1. The stats: Hum 109 vs 94 Orc (52% vs 48%) Hum 99 vs 103 NE (49% vs 51%) - elves dominate early patches, humans - the latest ones Hum 96 vs 95 UD (50.3% vs 49.7%) - same as elves, ud dominate earlier, humans in latest patches Orc 127 vs 124 NE (48.7% vs 51.3%) - elves dominate early patches, orcs - the latest ones Orc 82 vs 88 UD (48.2% vs 51.8%) - ud dominate early patches, orcs - the latest ones NE 113 vs 142 UD (44.3% vs 44.7%) - the most imbalanced matchup (looks like) But also, I were eager to check Happy's influence on the stats, so i do the same, but excluding all Happy's games. Stats: Hum 76 vs 57 UD (57.1% vs 42.9%) - humans get +7% wr vs all other ud in top50, while ud get -7% = +14% difference. Orc 57 vs 33 UD (63.3% vs 36.7%) - that's literally unplayable for ud players besides Happy. The winrate difference is 26.7%. NE 97 vs 89 UD (52.2% vs 47.8%) - +7.8% to ud winrate, -7.8% to ne. Difference is 4.3%. Overall ne and ud winrate droped after 1.36.0 patch. Also, Lyn was not able to get out of group in earlier tournaments (even Focus and Soin easily get out of their groups), yet orcs performed well even w/o him
@@Biobin123 i did it multiple times. Almost nothing changed for other races. You can name players who you consider top1 of other races for exact numbers.
@@nightyonetwothree does not matter who i think. Whoever is top rank in their race during period of event i guess. I am not saying something will change or not I don’t have data . But excluding top 1 players results from just 1 race is not fair. Either count all or exclude top 1 of every race. Again your results might be same but this way it’s fair
@@Biobin123 whoever is top for a timeperiod is cherry picking. You should exlude player who ruin statistics itself (exceptional level of players) to get the more realistic statistic (median). If we get best atm players of all races - moon, lyn, forti, 120 - they are best of their race, winning ~28% of their race total wins. Happy is 50% of ud winrate. He's heads above them all - that's why i excluded him, he just win unwinnable, ruining all stats.
Revamp Banshee Anti magic shell. Give it magic immunity, or more creatively CC-immunity. This would have many interesting positive effects design wise. Balance it properly. AMS gave magic immunity way back in the day, but they changed it for some reason.
They should try to make more units viable, especially night elf. Sick of seeing just mass dryads and bears in every game. E.g. Fearie dragon: allow slow movement while mana flare Mountain Giant: Small damage reduction or slow aura OR increase damage/splash (basically give reason to kill MG and not ignore it) Huntress: +1 dmg Hippogryph rider: +1 dmg and maybe allow huntress to combine I.e. a huntress sits on hippogryph with 5 food cost and glaive bounce Chimera: I don’t know Druid of the talon: I don’t know Does not have to be what I suggested, but something, anything, that will let us see more unit variety in nightelf games.
@@cadukizzi it is indeed very odd that huntresses are considered unarmored when they clearly have armor on them and carry a GIANT shield. Should definitely have light or medium armor. Not like they wear cloth like a sorceress.
This why I like Starcraft not ever having balance patch for decades, game can "mature" and metas evolve. I really liked WC3 in that last patch before 1.27/1.28ish, that was where the game was at it's best for me
Neo, man, you've been doing gods work for Wc3 these last few years. But please, for the love of him, can't you keep this reaction/analysis videos shorter? 2 and a half hours is just insanely long as if I were watching an overtime movie.
we get insane amount of hate already when we don't explain stuff. i'd rather not expose myself to more of that by leaving context out of the discussion. that said, i plan on doing more condensed shorter videos as follow ups, now that i can use the deep dive as a reference
@@Back2Warcraftgreat idea. I personally love detail ones ! I couldn’t wrap my head on ghouls attack speed for example without your analysis! Thx for great job
So the only thing NE get at the end is buffs on stuff they don't/can't use. A 5% moon well regen buff at the cost of a 20% well spring nerf, and they didn't even get their 10hp wisp buffs that the asian players asked for ages🤣😂. And for this ne haters are screaming their lungs out. I curiuous is top asian nelfs will reroll or they will continue to endure
Wells regen is affected from the very start of the game and is constantly useful, while well spring is tier 3 and is only affected by the change if you let the wells mana full without ever using it. Also, 125 to 100 is a 20% nerf, while 1.35 to 1.45 is a ~7.5% buff. NE players asked for wisp hp buff to fix the interaction with skeleton + coil, which does get fixed by the 5 hp buff. It is reverted from 10 hp buff because it has an unintended interaction with AoE spells. Warden does get used quite a few times, and the buffs are significant in Warden's strength to kill workers which is one of Warden's main role. If you can't even do basic math correctly, and you don't even know what are the interactions with the changes, you probably shouldn't waste your time trying to talk about balance.
@@winterfall_0 lamo i didn't waste my time talking about balance, hence the comment was in a rush and i did the percentage out of 100 by mistake, and here we are 3 weeks later with a guy trying to scold me 🤣🤣 🤦♂the regen happens only during the night time. This increase in regen slightly helps ne early game.The well spring 20% nerf is still significant, and the "doesn't affect you only if you're not using it" is anice cope, when you build fresh mw for a t3 push it still heals 20% less now does it ? And you need you moon wells to be ready for a t3 push that means you don't get to use them early. The whole skelly+coil and the aoe interaction is again something neo complained about. As if it's ok for an aoe ability to one-shot 300g worth of wisps to prevent a mass detonate. Since you whined about the warden can she one-shot 5 workers with a level 2 FOK ? no ? lmao🤣🤣 warden was not buffed, the max number of targets for fok was adjusted to be the same instead of 5/6/7 to 6/6/6 hence level 1 will be a bit stronger but level 3 is a bit weaker than how it was Yeah how about you yourself listen to your own adivice . Were are almost a month into a the patch and none of the ne haters fears became real. And now they are coping that it's a skill issue. 🤣🤣 Ne are mostly in the same place as they were in 1.36.1, maybe a bit better but not by much
![WC3 | LB Quarterfinal | [UD] Happy vs Life [NE] | $25,000 Don't Force Me Cup 2024 Finals](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MmBdxUvA3Ug/mqdefault.jpg)
Blizzard: "we nerf your main unit but here, take this wand of negation"
Also Blizzard: "but if you use it, we will remove"
Blizzard and b2w too
Nobody will be spend 150 Gold on it…
@@Igorekx I'm not so sure. It can help to secure expansion vs water elementals
@@cadukizzi it won’t.
@@cadukizzi you wish
As much as I've always found UD to be the most boring and stale race to play/watch, this seems a bit much. Seeing dk/lich/ghoul/destro almost every game, regardless of matchup or even the enemy army composition, isn't just because it's insanely strong, it's also because so much of the rest of the UD roster is underwhelming af. Taking power from ghouls/lich and putting it into aboms/frost wyrms is something, but it kinda feels like the only change this patch will accomplish is UD continuing to field the same army but be weaker.
Inb4:
Happy's win rate drops.
Every other UD drops the game.
If you think UD is bad try to win with NE against them.
Good luck
@@timfink7980 NE just got the biggest buffs ever
Lol, ez@@timfink7980
@@lyra797Because UD was beating the dogshit out of NE every time.
@@lyra797 you mean a 5% moonwell regen buff at the cost of a 20% well spring nerf ?🤣🤣 Yeah no, still a joke race balanced at the comfort of others
can we please get acolytes to Dont get one shot by holy light 3?
Loved the comment😅
Acolytes should get resistance skin in spite of taurens!
Then make peasants not get one shotted by lvl 3 nova and coil
Let's have the highest armor and HP for workers🤣🤣🤣
@@hunlepto2239 but there are a lot of peasants, they can just send a lumber to gold, ud cant do that.
Things the orc does use >>>> nerfed
Things the orc does not use >>>> buffed
Will it change what is used? I doubt it. It will just nerf orc overall.
"How dare you beat Human? Nerf!"
The HH nerf was so uncalled for. People are using Wyverns because HH was already nerf to the ground.
Really appreciated the video, thanks a lot. For a random guy whose passion for wcr3 got recently reignited, this channel is just GOLD.
As a NE enjoyers I was hoping for less of a general buff and more of specific ones towards neglected units. Still, it is crazy that the same game I was playing over 10 years ago gets balanced in 2024. Grateful for that.
Viel Spaß mit der neuer patch
That Wand if Negation is doomed. Blizzard always nerf to abyss or remove every relevant thing that Undead players use. If they are saying ahead of time that they may remove, it is doomed.
Let them remove it, Happy won’t spend 150 Gold on it anyway. Simply can’t afford.
@@Igorekx agree, the only race who selle tp immedietly to just stay in the game have no luxury to purchase 150g item for 2 dispels.
While at the same time orcs refuse to buy 75 dusts vs shade while floating 600+ gold over ud
OK, i gathered 11 months of TP league (2 seasons 4 month each) and AllStar League (1 season, 3 month) = 1275 games (i didnt count auto-surrenders, only real games played). 3 tournaments were on 1.35.0 patch, 3 on and 1.36.0, 5 on 1.36.1.
The stats:
Hum 109 vs 94 Orc (52% vs 48%)
Hum 99 vs 103 NE (49% vs 51%) - elves dominate early patches, humans - the latest ones
Hum 96 vs 95 UD (50.3% vs 49.7%) - same as elves, ud dominate earlier, humans in latest patches
Orc 127 vs 124 NE (48.7% vs 51.3%) - elves dominate early patches, orcs - the latest ones
Orc 82 vs 88 UD (48.2% vs 51.8%) - ud dominate early patches, orcs - the latest ones
NE 113 vs 142 UD (44.3% vs 44.7%) - the most imbalanced matchup (looks like)
But also, I were eager to check Happy's influence on the stats, so i do the same, but excluding all Happy's games.
Stats:
Hum 76 vs 57 UD (57.1% vs 42.9%) - humans get +7% wr vs all other ud in top50, while ud get -7% = +14% difference.
Orc 57 vs 33 UD (63.3% vs 36.7%) - that's literally unplayable for ud players besides Happy. The winrate difference is 26.7%.
NE 97 vs 89 UD (52.2% vs 47.8%) - +7.8% to ud winrate, -7.8% to ne. Difference is 4.3%.
Overall ne and ud winrate droped after 1.36.0 patch.
Also, Lyn was not able to get out of group in earlier tournaments (even Focus and Soin easily get out of their groups), yet orcs performed well even w/o him
Nice, So happy is IMBA haha
If you exclude top 1 ud, you must exclude all top 1 players of other races otherwise it is ud bias
@@Biobin123 i did it multiple times. Almost nothing changed for other races. You can name players who you consider top1 of other races for exact numbers.
@@nightyonetwothree does not matter who i think. Whoever is top rank in their race during period of event i guess.
I am not saying something will change or not I don’t have data . But excluding top 1 players results from just 1 race is not fair. Either count all or exclude top 1 of every race.
Again your results might be same but this way it’s fair
@@Biobin123 whoever is top for a timeperiod is cherry picking. You should exlude player who ruin statistics itself (exceptional level of players) to get the more realistic statistic (median). If we get best atm players of all races - moon, lyn, forti, 120 - they are best of their race, winning ~28% of their race total wins. Happy is 50% of ud winrate. He's heads above them all - that's why i excluded him, he just win unwinnable, ruining all stats.
Revamp Banshee Anti magic shell. Give it magic immunity, or more creatively CC-immunity. This would have many interesting positive effects design wise. Balance it properly.
AMS gave magic immunity way back in the day, but they changed it for some reason.
Good Bye UD…
Notes are fine, but Blizzard remains the worse company in the world.
You may need to specify game company while nestle exists
They should try to make more units viable, especially night elf. Sick of seeing just mass dryads and bears in every game.
E.g.
Fearie dragon: allow slow movement while mana flare
Mountain Giant: Small damage reduction or slow aura OR increase damage/splash (basically give reason to kill MG and not ignore it)
Huntress: +1 dmg
Hippogryph rider: +1 dmg and maybe allow huntress to combine I.e. a huntress sits on hippogryph with 5 food cost and glaive bounce
Chimera: I don’t know
Druid of the talon: I don’t know
Does not have to be what I suggested, but something, anything, that will let us see more unit variety in nightelf games.
Agree. Also give huntress light or medium armor.
@@cadukizzi it is indeed very odd that huntresses are considered unarmored when they clearly have armor on them and carry a GIANT shield. Should definitely have light or medium armor. Not like they wear cloth like a sorceress.
Only HU allowed to have that.
Zealot charge for tauren 2025
This why I like Starcraft not ever having balance patch for decades, game can "mature" and metas evolve. I really liked WC3 in that last patch before 1.27/1.28ish, that was where the game was at it's best for me
Neo, man, you've been doing gods work for Wc3 these last few years. But please, for the love of him, can't you keep this reaction/analysis videos shorter? 2 and a half hours is just insanely long as if I were watching an overtime movie.
He goes into detail, i like it
There are like 10+ hours analysis vids for dota 2 patches. The lenght is A OK
we get insane amount of hate already when we don't explain stuff. i'd rather not expose myself to more of that by leaving context out of the discussion.
that said, i plan on doing more condensed shorter videos as follow ups, now that i can use the deep dive as a reference
@@Back2Warcraftthe video duration is fine and most of us are very grateful for your work.
@@Back2Warcraftgreat idea. I personally love detail ones ! I couldn’t wrap my head on ghouls attack speed for example without your analysis! Thx for great job
HAH! They did pretty much everything Grubby suggested.
So the only thing NE get at the end is buffs on stuff they don't/can't use. A 5% moon well regen buff at the cost of a 20% well spring nerf, and they didn't even get their 10hp wisp buffs that the asian players asked for ages🤣😂. And for this ne haters are screaming their lungs out. I curiuous is top asian nelfs will reroll or they will continue to endure
Wells regen is affected from the very start of the game and is constantly useful, while well spring is tier 3 and is only affected by the change if you let the wells mana full without ever using it.
Also, 125 to 100 is a 20% nerf, while 1.35 to 1.45 is a ~7.5% buff.
NE players asked for wisp hp buff to fix the interaction with skeleton + coil, which does get fixed by the 5 hp buff. It is reverted from 10 hp buff because it has an unintended interaction with AoE spells.
Warden does get used quite a few times, and the buffs are significant in Warden's strength to kill workers which is one of Warden's main role.
If you can't even do basic math correctly, and you don't even know what are the interactions with the changes, you probably shouldn't waste your time trying to talk about balance.
@@winterfall_0 lamo i didn't waste my time talking about balance, hence the comment was in a rush and i did the percentage out of 100 by mistake, and here we are 3 weeks later with a guy trying to scold me 🤣🤣
🤦♂the regen happens only during the night time. This increase in regen slightly helps ne early game.The well spring 20% nerf is still significant, and the "doesn't affect you only if you're not using it" is anice cope, when you build fresh mw for a t3 push it still heals 20% less now does it ? And you need you moon wells to be ready for a t3 push that means you don't get to use them early.
The whole skelly+coil and the aoe interaction is again something neo complained about. As if it's ok for an aoe ability to one-shot 300g worth of wisps to prevent a mass detonate. Since you whined about the warden can she one-shot 5 workers with a level 2 FOK ? no ? lmao🤣🤣
warden was not buffed, the max number of targets for fok was adjusted to be the same instead of 5/6/7 to 6/6/6 hence level 1 will be a bit stronger but level 3 is a bit weaker than how it was
Yeah how about you yourself listen to your own adivice . Were are almost a month into a the patch and none of the ne haters fears became real. And now they are coping that it's a skill issue. 🤣🤣 Ne are mostly in the same place as they were in 1.36.1, maybe a bit better but not by much