I would say I believe Grindelwald is more powerful than Voldemort, but he also has more humanity inside, which may be reason why he got defeated. Voldemort has long past the humanity part and it blinded him in a way that Grindelwald still could see through. They both lost because their opponent had something neither of them had at that moment but among themselves I do see Grindelwald being the best. And actually when it comes to that it’s possible to see his reasoning for all he’s doing while Voldemort seemingly goes for just plain revenge for all his past human pain and has grown into power addict with little or no logical reason. Idk just my humble opinion how I see it since being in this universe since 8 years old.
This is an entirely ludicrous debate. The greatest wizard of ALL time is obviously Gilderoy Lockhart, Order of Merlin 3rd Class, Honorary member of the Darkforce Defense League, and 5 time winner of Witch Weekly's Most Charming Smile Award.
I mean one sense it is understandable since he knew he had to send Harry to Voldemort at some point. Obviously whether occasional ten points makes it up, or whether there was any other way, is for everyone to decide themselves 🙂
I think it’s been established that Voldy, at least in terms of raw magical power was stronger then Grindlewald. However, Grindle was a more cunning and creative wizard. He didn’t just spam Avada Kadavra.
Unfortunately, Grindelwald couldn't against his greatest enemy of all time: Amber Heard. She was so powerful that she literally banished him from the Harry Potter universe.
Voldemort: Die, die, die! Grindelwald: We will change the world. I think Grindelwald has much more personality than Voldemort, and I like him better because of it.
@@numa4191 maybe but at last they have the same opinions at the start of voldemort at least because after he wanted just the others to be scared of him...
@@RobinLundqvist i think voldemort deserves more pitty from us because he wasnt be loved by anyone... Grindelwald wanted muggles to serve wizards for no reason
That had the help of Dumbledore, an an entire school of magic students and the majority of the Wizarding World. Grindelwald was widely accepted by the masses of the Wizarding World only the ministries hated him.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 Dumbledor had no intentions of killing voldemort at the ministry. He wanted the draw so the ministers could come and see that the dark lord had returned.
@@omotiverat Voldemort acknowledged that Dumbledore wasn't trying to kill him, 'cause he noticed that he wasn't using the killing curse, but he didn't have to kill Voldemort to defeat him. He defeated Grindelwald without killing him. He and Voldemort were pretty evenly matched even while Dumbledore wielded the power of the Elder wand. Dumbledore also only avoided Voldemort's simultaneous attack of conjuring the serpent and firing a killing curse, 'cause Fawkes swooped in. For all that we know, Voldemort would have killed Dumbledore if Fawkes wasn't there.
The problem is, Voldermort only has one weakness... and he keeps slamming himself against it. If you remove all the times that Voldermort tries to be the one to kill Harry instead of someone else, his plans are actually solid.
@@nimzi4479 To be fair, there way no way to know Harry was part him. Lets look at the firsts. 1. Sorcerers Stone - Blast Harry from afar, don't touch him doof. 2. Faux did most of the work, Faux and the Chamber of Secrets. 3. My favorite one, but the movie is essentially just there for the adults shown through Harrys eyes. 4. Cross had Potter at his mercy multiple times, the Death Eaters could have killed him at any moment. But Voldy wanted to be the one to do it. 5. This is legitimately the first time they never had a shot to kill Harry, he was well-defended. 6. Harry was captured, they could kill him... nope nope have the make sure this is the real Harry - not like they weren't mindlessly killing innocent people before. 7. If you kill your mortal enemy... freaking destroy the corpse.
Dumbledore as an old man fought Voldemort to a draw whilst protecting Harry and pinning Bellatrix, Voldemort was not able to break his defenses despite all dumbledore had on his plate. Grindelwald strikes me as more skillful and he doesn't spam the killing curse.
Voldemort did not stalemate Dumbledore. Dumbledore intended only and only to make him stay that is why he was playing with voldy. He stayed because Dumbledore wanted him to, thus he was not much concerned in allowing voldy to think he can win.
@@abcxyz- Dumbledore and Voldemort were pretty evenly matched even while Dumbledore wielded the power of the Elder wand. Voldemort neutralised all of Dumbledore's attempts to defeat and capture him by himself: he transfigured Dumbledore's jet of fire into a serpent and he escaped from the sphere of water. Meanwhile, Dumbledore only avoided Voldemort's simultaneous attack of conjuring the serpent and firing a killing curse 'cause Fawkes swooped in. For all that we know, Voldemort would have killed Dumbledore if Fawkes wasn't there.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 Oh sir, it was Dumbledore's intention to keep playing with Voldemort and to keep him there till someone saw would see him. Dumbledore literally struck fear in his eyes. So your words seem a bit off
i think Gridelwald uses magic as a form of art, he moves his wand like he's moving it with a melody of music. he embraces magic, and uses it with elegance, while Voldemort uses magic purely to kill and uses no creativity. Voldemort's followers joined him out of fear, while Grindelwald's followers were manipulated and joined him with free will
@@safwanshuhaib9968 well, kinda tbh 🤷🏾♂️. Though it is trickery it is still their choice and technically he wasn’t lying either, he literally had what I call a ‘Satan complex’ a master manipulator that uses the truth and prinkles lies all over it to the point you may even be right but your method/morals are entirely wrong, very hard to discern between right and wrong when this is the case, but voldermort was just wild lol, both him and his followers can be summed up with just 3 words “they feared death”, though the biggest irony’s in the fact they called themselves ‘death eaters’
not all voldemort's followers like bellatrix or barty crouch jr joined him with free will and even lucius and snape did even if lucius would fear him after his failures he joined him by free will and shared his ideas and even if snape would be turned as a spy after he joined eath eaters by free will before he becamed spy only wormtail joined him by fear the others wanted to join him (exept those under the imperius curse of course)
Grindelwald gets my vote. He was more careful, more clever, and he didn't underestimate his opponents. He was also more charismatic, able to sway people to his side by appealing to their desires to live out in the open. He also brought up the coming WW2 and said that he could prevent it. He used fear, but he also used friendship, whereas Voldemort seemed to primarily sway people to his side with fear and power.
I wanna see the Wizarding w0rld in ww2. The great wars I'm willing to bet wouldn't have lasted as long if wizards were involved. Could be wrong. Though it explains that old war joke with a guy given a broom being told just say tankety tank tank tankety to survive 😆
@@zackford4497 Grindelwald could've done it with strength and fear too, but he didn't want nor need to do so. The only thing he wanted was a good world for wizards and witches, and cared for his followers. That's why they wouldn't ever betray him if he was in a critical situation. But voldemort's followers would if they saw a chance of him being defeated.
Grindelwald: Aims for the greater good of all wizards, fight against the most powerful wizards of all time Voldemort: Aims to not die, however died twice, the first time killed by a baby the second time by a student
@@Collier-gy2ni There isn't really anything to suggest that Dumbledore weakened with age. He's even described to have the agility of a much younger man when he's dying in the Half-blood Prince: 'With the sudden agility of a much younger man, Dumbledore slid from the boulder, landed in the sea and began to swim with a perfect breaststroke'. It would only make sense for Dumbledore to have just been more experienced and magically knowledgeable against Voldemort than he was against Grindelwald. He also had the Elder wand against Voldemort.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 voldemort had the elder want but was killed by harry, the elder wand seeks for stronger wizard, therefore the master of elder want turned to dumbledore because he is maybe slightly stronger than grindelwald
She probably informed and inspired Tom into committing the acts he did in order to perhaps prepare the world for Grindelwald return that would be quite a cunning way of doing things using the insecurity of a man who is rejected by his muggle father and left destitute by his squib of a mother
@@darthxing7289 Tom's mother was not a squib, otherwise she would have never been left alive by her family or able to make the love potion. She had been uneducated because she never went to Hogwarts (thanks to her father) and at home she hadn't learnt much.
@@elenastanica4621 she was a near Squib she still had the ability to access our family Magic and if she was a Full Witch she would use the imperius curse on Tom senior and she would have stated that and she would have stated that he would never abandon his wife or child instead of using the love potion only non-magical or squibs would use such a tactic But this is my opinion but I do appreciate someone pointing their own point of view of facts it grabs me the opportunity to to point out my own :-)
Grindelwald for me is the greatest Wizarding World villain as he uses the power of manipulation to gain followers. He was also the master of the Elder Wand for a number of years!
@jack rogers Yes so true, but there's something I haven't been able to understand, I thought the wand chooses the wizard so since they didn't earn it then it shouldn't have worked for them and let's not forget that this is the most powerful wand
Leroy Ceezar Didn’t Ollivander also say that, “If you’re any wizard, you would be able to cast spells through any wands.” And Voldy also said that, “The extraordinary magic is me, I am extraordinary, not the wand.” Or something along the lines.
A point for Voldemort: he created the taboo spell and cursed a word around the globe that allowed him to listen in on anyone who spoke his name. That took some power.
@@CyanideAndSeratonin The taboo cleared away any concealing magic in the area and revealed the location of the speaker, at least that's how I remember it. When did it say the taboo gave him the ability to listen in on people?
Grindelwald is incapable of completely destroying Voldemort due to his horcruxes, but I feel like, besides dumbledore, he would be the only other wizard to figure out Voldemort’s secret in the first place. Voldemort was powerful, but Grindelwald was incredibly intelligent
nobody could figure those out unless they was of the slytherin house... and u had harry's smart friends u needed harry's whole GANG to be voldemort's horcrux's alone and find them. Otherwise ur chalked lol thats just a fact nobody even beat voldemort one time besides harry. And anytime it looked like someone beat voldemort it was voldemort beating himself because harry's scar contained a part of his soul which made him the 7th horcrux which is why they both passed out in the forest when voldemort tried to kill him and at the school when harry faked his death. everytime there was something powerful protecting harry otherwise its EZ GG lol.
Considering Grindelwald could keep up with Dumbledore when he was in his prime while Voldemort struggled against Dumbledore who was well past his twilight years and needed to essentially cheat using Horcruxes to avoid dying completely, I'd say Grindelwald is the superior wizard.
I wouldn't say "struggled" more like he didn't want to fight any longer because the aurors were on their way. In any case, I'm not big on Harry Potter stuff, but I'd say it would be a 50/50 shot for both
@@fiber_king2334 i would think spell casting still puts some sort of stress to the body? Dumbledore fighting Voldemort had more knowledge and experience but was not in his prime physically and mentally?
Voldemort didnt struggle, he was fighting Dumbledore and sending lightings at harry at the same time, he had to go before he got coughed by even more people
@@fiber_king2334 Well for starters younger is kind of relative as if you do the math based on Dumbledore's age when he died and when he fought Grindelwald he was in his 70s at the time, so to say he wasn't experienced is kind of a stretch. Plus Youth itself does come with plenty of benefits and Dumbledore was 150 at the time he died while the average life expectancy for a wizard is 130, so it's not like Dumbledore was in his prime. Sure he had more knowledge thanks to his experience but hardly what you could call the same level of raw power. Also you have to keep in mind Grindelwald knew Dumbledore better than pretty much anyone thus could counter him unlike anyone and he wasn't afraid of Dumbledore. He knew he could beat him in a duel if the need arose, while Voldemort was terrified by Dumbledore even though logically Voldemort couldn't be killed thanks to his various Horcruxes. Also the Elder Wand doesn't seem like the gamechanger people make it out to be. We almost never get a hint it does anything especially noticeable to it's wielders
Regardless of who is stronger, I prefer Grindelwald as a character and villain. I think he’s much more interesting and less stereotypical than Voldemort
Because Voldemort doesn't have depth. He hates non wizards, he fears death, he's extremely powerful, he doesn't have friends or love anyone. He was based on hitler.
Being more "interesting" and "less stereotypical" isn't always a good thing when talking about villains. There's a reason Sauron is still the ultimate bad guy of fiction, and a reason why Satan is still the ultimate bad guy of Legend. Quite frankly, the aspects of "personality" that Voldemort DID posses made him LESS compelling as a villain. A lot can fall on direction and acting as well, there simply is a level of Majesty and Mystery to Grindelwald thanks to Johnny Depp that Voldemort lacks. Voldemort seems more like a junkie in the films than the lord of all evil. Voldemort seems desperate in the films (I've never read the books), while Grindelwald has the prideful arrogance of a true villain. It's not the "humanity" and "personality" that make Grindelwald a more compelling villain, it is the fact that Grindelwald carries the traditional and stereotypical tropes of the villain BETTER than Voldemort does. Grindelwald is powerful and charismatic, Voldemort is desperate and pitiful, and in fact has quite a bit more personality than Grindelwald, and it is precisely because Voldemort has more personality that he isn't able to embody the archetype of the villain as convincingly and compellingly as Grindelwald.
And Grindelwald has had more chances to flex his powers using far more powerful spells while Voldemort's only had 1 scene to flex his magical abilities to their fullest and for the most part he just spams Avada Kedarva.
Grindelwald was Dumbledore’s equal. Voldemort put up a good fight, but he never even came close to beating Dumbledore in their duel (even though Dumbledore wasn’t really even trying). Grindlewald was also just as masterful in the dark arts as Voldemort, and would know exactly how to counter every dark spell he used. He’d probably figure out about Voldemort’s horcruxes too, and wouldn’t be afraid to use fiendfyre to destroy them
What are you talking about? Even when he had the Elder wand, Grindelwald couldn't beat Dumbledore. Voldemort stalemated Dumbledore when Dumbledore had the Elder wand. Plus, Dumbledore states more than once that Voldemort is his superior.
@geekyradical4985 Incorrect. Voldy didn't stalemate Dumbledore, it was the other way around. Dumbledore wasn't trying to defeat Voldy, he was trying to bide time for Order members and aurors to show up, whilst protecting Harry, keeping Bellatrix pinned down and casually conversing with someone he didn't see as his equal. Ultimately, he was toying with Tom and Tom even says as much.
I mean when you look at it in the crimes of grindelwald , grindelwald can’t stay in the same room when they kill a child , while Voldie over here is ready to kill Potter Himself , grindelwald has humanity and has a soul , and most importantly a nose while Voldemort doesn’t
It's not that he couldn't stay in the room, he didn't want to, it was beneath him. He looked at muggles with disdain. He didn't think of muggles as people but as things to be thrown away when not useful. Just listen to his speech in the tomb.
Another point for grindelwand was that his influence over the Wizarding world was worldwide while it seemed voldemort could only influence great Britain
I’m guessing Voldemort posed more of a threat to the world than Grindelwald did, and world magical governments were on higher alert. It seems Voldemort’s army was considerably larger than grindelwalds. The reason the emphasis is placed in Europe is because that’s where not only his horocruxes are, but also because that’s where Harry is. If Voldemort got rid of Harry and there was nobody to stop him, I think he’d take over the world in a matter of months.
I’m glad you distinguish between dangerous and powerful. Voldemort struck me as someone more dependent on fear through terror and use of dark magic, whilst Grindewald could rely on admiration for his sheer power and charisma. Without the killing curse, I don’t think Voldemort would win in a duel VS. Grindewald. And even if they both used it, it still seems like Grindewald would’ve had a the upper hand.
Grindelwald LOST against dumbledore while HE had the elder wand. Voldemort goes toe to toe against Dumbledore+elder wand. It’s very obvious that Voldemort is going to win a duel against elderwandless Grindelwald even if none of them use killing curses
@@herohonda4183 Could you not argue that emotion/affection played a key factor in the duel between Dumbledore and Grindewald, though? Dumbledore was arguably the only person Grindewald had an issue with hurting and killing. If he wouldn't commit to the task, I don't think the Elder Wand would be enough for him to win, and for one reason or the other it clearly wasn't. And from how I understand the battle between Voldemort and Dumbledore, it was a matter of stalling Voldemort and protecting Harry, not defeating him. And Dumbledore didn't really come off as if he struggled.
@@herohonda4183Only in the movies Voldemort goes toe-to-toe against Dumbledore. In the books Voldemort himself acknowledges that an old Dumbledore is holding back and toying with him. Btw, in the books Dumbledore recognized Grindelwald as his equal.
Dumbledore literally stated Voldemort’s knowledge of magic is more extensive than anyone alive that his own most powerful spells wouldn’t work against Voldemort
No. Dumbledore knew about the prophecy and that even if Voldemort's body was destroyed he would return. Well... the snippet is clear: Voldemort: "You do not seek to kill me, Dumbledore? Above such brutality, are you?" Albus: "We both know that there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom. Merely taking your life would not satisfy me". Voldemort realised from the non-lethal nature of the spell that Dumbledore never meant to kill him.
voldy was scared of death to the point where he made horcruxes to ensure that he wouldn't die grindelwald wasn't scared of death, he would die for greater good
@Mike The Owl voldys wasn't immortal though. To be immortal means you never die. He did though. The only things that kept him from permanent death were the horcruxes.
This is semantics really. One could argue that Voldemort wasn't afraid of dying, he just made horcruxes because he knew people would try killing him for what he was going to be doing. Grendewald felt what he was doing was right and that everyone would see it.
Voldemort : AAVAADDDAAAA KEDDAVRAAAA... Hermione: Stop stop stop... you're saying it wrong. Besides you are going to someone's soul out. Its AVADA KEDAVRA.... not AAVAADDDAAAA KEDDAVRAAAA.. Harry : Hermione!!!! You just killed Voldemort!!!!
Honestly I think that Voldimort is slightly more powerful, but if they both fought each other Grindlewald would definitely win. He is just so much smarter than Voldimort, and would definitely outsmart him, like we see Dumbedore doing. Also, I just want to point out that the time when Dumbedore duelded Voldemort, Dumbedore wasn't really trying. He knew that Harry would have to kill him because of the prophecy, and his objective was mostly to keep him in check. Finally, if Rita Skeeter was right in Harry Potter (which she usually half is) the Grindlewald and Dumbedore fight wasn't very even, and at the end Grindlewald would have just surrendered for whatever reason.
Let’s not wank Dumbledore too much, it was called one of the greatest duels of all time which wouldn’t be the case if it was one sided. Albus also says he was only slightly more skilled which implies it was a close fight
I remember seeing somewhere that Grindewald looked down on Voldemort. He looked at Voldemort like a child with nuclear launch codes and not someone who was even close to his or Dumbledore's level of intelict, capability, or humanity. The latter of this was truly an asset that Voldemort natively only saw as a liability.
Yess and I think him patronizing Voldemort also reflects on the respect and love he had for Dumbledore’s intellect. Understanding that even though Albus chose the other side, he was still most powerful
Reasons Voldemort is more powerful than Grindelwald 1. Can fly without using a broom 2. The only wizard ever capable of possession 3. The only wizard who can command dementors like the ministry 4. He had horcruxes that made him immortal. If Voldemort is hit by the killing curse he will return to fight another day if Grindelwald is hit it is over 5. He was the hier of Slytherin 6. Commanded a bigger army than Grindelwald because he had not only wizards but magical creatures as well 7. He was a Legilimens. He could read control and unhinged minds. Like Snape told harry Voldemort took pleasure in unhinging and showing people horrid visions until the were practically begging for death. Grindelwald could however resist this but it just goes to show how powerful Voldemort is. 8. Fake fans with no logic are claiming Dumbledore was in his prime against Grindelwald I beg to differ think about it wouldn't it make sense that Dumbledore was stronger years after he defeated Grindelwald because he then had the elder wand vs in the beginning when he didn't. Dumbledore with the elder wand beats Dumbledore without it. Plus he acquired more knowledge on magic as the years pass. 9. Had more powerful wizards in his army than Grindelwald such as 1. Severus Snape before he left the death eaters. 2 Bellatrix Lestrange 3 Lucius Malfoy 4 Narcissa Malfoy 5 Barty Crouch, Jr 6 Fenrir Greyback 7 Corban Yaxley 8 Antonin Dolohov 9 Peter Pettigrew 10 Thorfinn Rowle 11 Amycus Carrow 12 Alecto Carrow 13 Regulus Black 14 Igor Karkaroff before he left p.s he was powerful to become a headmaster at any school is no easy feat. 15 Pius Thickness 16 Lestrange family most notable Rodolphus and Rabastan the 2 wizard who along with Bellatrix and Barty crouch Jr killed Neville's parents. 17. Almost all of the pure blood families aded Voldemort on his conquest. Who does Grindelwald have Queenie Credence 🤣🤣 10. Grindelwald faced off against quite a few aurors and the end of the fantastic beasts film but we're they any notable witches or wizards. Voldemort faced Kingsley Shacklebolt the second most powerful auror after mad-eye, Horace Slughorn one of the most powerful professors Hogwarts has ever seen and don't forget the boss witch herself Minerva McGonagall she needs no introduction. Voldemort faced all 3 of them on his own do you know how powerful you have to be to fight those 3 on your own and not be obliterated only person who could perform such a feat besides Voldemort is Dumbledore. 11. I could go on for longer but I just wanted to say this also like Dumbledore said Voldemort is the most dangerous wizard ever and Jk Rowling herself said Voldemort is the most powerful dark wizard of all time.
@@sonofthemorning5664 I think we have to wait and see what the next movies show us about Grindelwald, but I also think, to your points, some things are worth mentioning here. 1. JK confirmed that broomless flight, like wandless magic, is possible throughout the wizarding population. Like wands, brooms simply channel the magic in a wizard making it easier to use. However, one can master either given time, practice, and enough magical power. Unlike wandless magic, though, broomless flight would be extremely dangerous to practice, thus probably less mastery exists, leading us to only really see Voldemort doing it. This doesn’t mean that he is more powerful, imo. 2. Each time he possessed a person or living creature, it was in direct relation to his horcrux’s. Only one time did we see him do it after he was “reborn” and that was through Harry, who we later learn is a Horcrux, and is linked to Voldemort. I don’t see this as a “point” for Voldemort where one wouldn’t exist for Grindelwald. Grindelwald simply chose not to create Horcruxes which leads to your fourth point that I’ll get into there. 3. Dementors, from what I gather, weren’t controlled by either the Ministry or Voldemort at any given time. They chose each side during different periods in time because each side was able to give them what they need to keep being. When Voldemort rose to power he was able to give the Dementors more of what they needed, so their allegiance changed. From what I recall, Voldemort even refers to them as “natural allies,” meaning they would be making the choice on their own, not controlled in any way. 4. Just because Grindelwald chose to not create horcruxes does not mean he is less powerful. He and Voldemort had two very different end goals: Voldemort wanted to live forever in his reign of power over both magical and non magical people and creatures, whereas Grindelwald sought to fundamentally shift the balance of power in favor of the wizarding world for himself and generations to come. His end goal didn’t include immortality, so he had no need for the horcruxes. 5. There is no evidence suggesting the heir of Slytherin is any more powerful than any other magical family. Their uniqueness comes with their Parseltounge, for sure, but it is also unclear if any other wizarding families may have had that ability or if the ability existed in the wizarding world as a whole but simply “died out” in all those who weren’t heir’s of Slytherin. Either way, this does not make him inherently more powerful. Grindelwald is a seer, something Voldemort is not, but that does not, inherently, make him more powerful either. 6. The evidence suggests that Grindelwald’s presence and influence stretched across the wizarding world whereas Voldemort’s was limited to the European area. This would actually make Grindelwald’s following bigger, but alas, a following does not a stronger wizard make. 7. Being a Legilimens also does not a stronger wizard make. Especially when you consider that, yes, he was quite good in this specific are of magic but Grindelwald was actually shown to be much, much stronger here. When Voldemort attempted to use this on him while he was in Azkaban, Grindelwald laughed in his face. Mind you, this is after he had been imprisoned for 53! years. He was still able to resist and LAUGH AT Voldemort’s attempt to gain access to his mind. Furthermore, we have seen other wizards master this as well, including Snape. And we briefly are made aware that Draco has at least fully mastered Occlumency as it is implied he is able to shield his mind from Voldemort in the seventh book. And I don’t consider Draco to be a wizard of particularly high skill and power. So it seems this type of magic may not be as difficult as some suggest, just requires practice. 8. Dumbledore never truly fought Voldemort, in any capacity. His “duel” with Voldemort was not one to the death as he was privy to the prophecy and understood that Harry had to die, at a specific time, with a very specific circumstance, for Voldemort to be truly defeated (thanks to Horcruxes, not power) so he wasn’t attempting to best Voldemort at this time. I have little doubt that, had he really wanted or needed to, he would have had no problem defeating Voldemort in this duel. That’s just opinion, though, so holds no weight, much like this “duel”. 9. Again, a following does not a strong wizard make but you’re also basing this entire point off seven books and eight movies, plus loads of JK plot hole fill ins over the years for Voldemort’s following and only two movies and a brief mention in one book of Grindelwald’s. We have no idea the type of wizards choosing to follow Grindelwald or their mastery of magic. Be that as it may, we do have a very strong indication that Credence is a very, very powerful wizard, the likes of which we have never seen. As a boy who could overcome and control his Obscurius as well as his magnificent show of power in the last movie, I think even just having him lends credit to the magical level of his followers. Also, Queenie is very powerful, and to insinuate that she isn’t is like dismissing Hermione’s power in the trio. 10. Again, this is based off an extensive knowledge of Voldemort and his battles and little knowledge of Grindelwald and his. We could all go on and on forever on this topic, but like the video suggests: we simply don’t know enough about Grindelwald at this point to make a fair assessment of the power of the two wizards comparatively. I am of the current opinion that Grindelwald is stronger than Voldemort based solely on their interaction whilst Grindelwald was in Azkaban as well as Grindelwald’s ability to master the elder wand and Voldemort’s inability. It also seems Grindelwald’s magical knowledge is superior as he was in search of the deathly hallows as a child and Voldemort seemed to either not know of, or chose to not believe in, their existence. Grindelwald has mastered an extensive list of spells that we never saw Voldemort come close to mastering. And, as we’ve seen be a running theme of the Harry Potter verse, love is the strongest magic of all, and we know Voldemort never knew, felt, or understood love while we’ve seen that Grindelwald has and does. It was expressly stated in core HP verse that he and Dumbledore were lovers. He has the ability to feel and express this powerful magic that Voldemort never could. And it also seems the love Grindelwald and Dumbledore had for each other may have been a very, very powerful love as neither of them, from what we currently know, took lovers after.
Most wizards can only move their spoon in a cup coffee without a wand. Grindelwald let a car fly through the air with the greatest of ease. With a flick of his wrist and without saying a word he created a shockwave that broke apart the ground and bend the train rails. He could heal wounds by simple touching them. Grindelwald summoned the suitcase over to him and then newton scamander's wand into his hand, both times with a silent wave of his hand. In the same instance, Grindelwald also wandlessly lifted Newt Scamander from the ground from across the room and then forced newton, Tina goldstein and Jacob kowalski simultaneously to their knees with their arms locked behind against their backs without a wand or saying a word. He later just rag dolled Credence away from the rails with a silent wave of his hand. Almost all of this was while holding back, because he didn’t want to be discovered and loose his fake identity. He summoned protego diabolica without saying a word. His version of the spell was so powerful, it was stated that if not contained, it would destroy Paris. It transformed into 3 dragons of blue fire. Created a white blast that one shotted 5 aurors. He was described as equal to Dumbledore. While Dumbledore was in his prime. His occlumency was so strong, not even Voldemort could read his mind even though he was at the weakest point in his life. He was one of the most talented seers in history. He could see the future with more precision than madam Sybill Trelawney. He doesn't need a Crystal ball or thee to see the future, he just has visions. I could perform human transfiguration with ease and summon lighting from the sky. He could become invisible without an invisibly cloak at age 17. He can Apparate in the mid of battle with the greatest of ease. But on the other hand it was stated Voldemort was the most powerful dark wizard ever so, idk. I prefer gellert not because of his power but because of his cunning.
@@TheMightyCrucibleKnight184 voldermort : A child destined and marked assss my equal. You had the elder wand and sstill could not beat Albus Dumbledore.
@@imperiussylvan9571 Grindelwald: it's because he had help and it's because I still love him and I forgive him for beating me that day and I know my actions so I welcome him to beat me in the duel, and I welcome death which is you are the one who killed me but I accept death so that I can now join him in the afterlife or not, but I just want to see him one last time, and what about you hmm, you have an army of death eaters, and you have the chance to kill the boy and you did kill the boy but instead using someone else to check if he's dead you use narcissa malfoy to check if he's dead, a wannabe dark lord who has no loyalty to his main follower, using fear to his follower?! ha! What kind of a supremist are you? Using fear to get their loyalty pledge to you , and murdering the muggles, the half-bloods, only the pureblood who will live in the world but you're a half-blood yourself, (lol😂) don't make me laugh voldemort for I am Gellert Grindelwald the greatest dark lord and the true master of the elder wand that ever seen and live, and as for you only for eleven years trying to be the powerful wizard of all, but you couldn't even kill the boy just because the power of love and years later you still couldn't kill him because of your poor hiding spot for you immortality and anger management issue just because he is your equal and you may have seek more knowledge and power than me and yet you still failed and died on the process, you may be smart and a true prodigy but I am the greatest of all that ever lived so, in conclude I gellert grindelwald does not fear death. But you who feared death you are no dark lord, you are a coward so I accept my death, you coward. ( lol😂😅 sorry for if I am out of context here but I still like voldemort raw power but I love grindelwald's charisma and cunningness and more about unknown knowledge from the dark arts, so later again if you reply to this text I'll break down the spell I've made later). (Protego diabolica, teleport).
For this debate you have to use book Dumbledore and Voldemort, in the movie the director made it appear more even cause 1 sided fights aren't fun to watch. In the books however Dumbledore was quite obviously just toying with Voldemort because he was not fight to kill him, he was just postponing Voldy, the entire fight he is practically talking down to him and calling him Tom over and over again, Voldy was fighting to kill, he so badly wanted to kill Dumbledore
bro toying? he cant kill him. and besides Voldemort already won the fight cuz Dumbledore already sentenced to death for destroying the ring hocxrux hes basically dead
@@-D-du7lm go read that section in the book again, its very obvious that Dumbledore is just toying with Voldemort, he is completely out matching him throughout the entire fight and Voldemort has no chance of winning. He is literally just wasting time til everyone else can arrive to prove to everyone that Voldemort really did return
I mean protego diabolica (the spell Grindelwald used) isn't shown to be powerful enough to destroy all of Paris. It's only when the skull was destroyed in the flames that the spell grew and got out of control. The only information we're given on the spell is that it creates a wall of blue flames that attack and defend at the same time. There's no mention of giant flaming dragons. Still my favourite spell but not strong enough to destroy all of Paris on its own.
@@BlackangelKatakuri i never understood, did grindelwald actually have control of the elder wand? He stole it from gregorovich but he never defeated him. So does that mean he never had control of the elder wand in the first place and it was voldemort who did?
Grindelwald’s style of Magic : “No worries , we all know that I’m better than you” Voldemort’s style of Magic: “THIS ANT HAS DARED TO CROSS ME AND MUST NOW BE DISPENSED WITH MAXIMUM EFFORT”
I feel like I’d be more afraid to duel grindelwald. Voldemort would just try to overpower you directly or just spam the killing curse. Seems like an easier fight to prep for. Grindelwald seems far more knowledgeable and skilled. Unpredictable. In the first movie he’s casually taking on the entire task force of like a dozen people. In the second he’s fighting dozens of people and he beat them all with one spell
The Red Inferno Huh? He used spam correctly here, it just means to repeatedly and overwhelming do something. In the deathly hallows pt 2, when Harry & Voldemort fight, he literally is spewing avada kedavras at the speed of light at him lol
Grindelwald was only knowledgeable and interested in the deathly hallows. Voldemort pushed the boundaries of magic. And the spell which u r talking abt, Grindelwald had the elder wand then. Voldemort could easily overpower Grindelwald.
Dumbledore did say this in the Order of the Phoenix: "I knew that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard alive. I knew that even my most complex and powerful protective spells and charms were unlikely to be invincible if he ever returned to full power." He didn't say anything as impressive about Grindelwald.
Theory: Grindelwald and Dumbledore were both the masters of the elder wand at the same time. Both because of their bond and them being the strongest wizards of the time. The elder wand didn't know what to do so it refused to hurt either of the wizards.
I feel like grindelwald was just a more intelligent wizard with a higher IQ, and was able to max out his powers past his actual capabilities because of that..while Voldemort is more of a raw/unlimited power type of guy, which came more naturally. He was naturally more gifted. My opinion: give Voldemort grindelwalds brain, and neither potter or dumbledore would have stood a chance
I think that had voldemort not created any horcruxes he would have been near invincible. Tom Riddle was a genius and a master manipulator, all of hogwarts loved him except dumbledore.
@@smol_girlhuandisime8308 but if he didn't create any horcruxes, wouldn't he of died when he killed Lily Potter? His soul wouldn't of been split so he would of died there surely?
@@bengibson502 I think that had he been sane (or as sane as he was at the beginning) he wouldn't have gone after lily and James. He would have planned his attack a lot more carefully and he would have at least sought to find the entire prophecy instead of going after the potters right away after all harry was just a one year old what could he have done as a baby? Even as insane as he was he knew a child couldn't have done much on his own and he understood ( at least somewhat bc he didn't want to agnowledge that he was defeated by a mudblood ) that it was bc of lily's sacrifice that harry survived so without the horcruxes he might have waited until he knew all the facts before attacking a child bc he had time after all. Or he might have considered that harry could be some all powerful being and been more careful bc of it. But I would imagine he could have conquered wizarding Brittain before harry was born so even if everything went wrong and he died bc of the killing curse he would have already won anyway. Or he might have killed dumbledore long before harry was born so could have learned of the prophecy? Bc if it was some random person who heard trelawney ( who was viewed as crazy ) they wouldn't have given it any attention. Or he could have just stunned lily instead of killing her bc he wouldn't have had such anger issues. And Harry would be dead.
he was not , he was how ever less inteligent yes but his really power was his ability to talk too the lowest parts of inbred people that longed for the power of thier ancestors , open power , these people usually had parents that did not have the capacity to show affection , appart from narsisa , this is why malfoy eventually saw he was just trying to be his fathers copy to get his approval , finally seeing the person who he was trained to hate as actually being so much stronger than the weak little bullies that tried so hard to kill him
Voldemort I believe was more dangerous because of the amount of hatred he possessed. He was able to harness the power of the “Dark Side” of magic more so than Grindelwald. His connection to the darkness was endless and unmatched. On the other hand Grindelwald was able to walk the line between both “Light” and “Dark” magic.
not an "endless" connection to darkness really. Although, if it were, then it would highlight how even THAT can be counted and defeated by light indeed.
Dumbledore kinda did mock Voldemort when he said "It was foolish of you to come here tonight Tom" at the ministry. Voldemort hated his real name (Tom).
@@billystokes3917 wow I missed that, but you got a point... I always thought Dumbledore called him Tom because they are close in the past (in a good and bad way)
@@massemarboyo8465 only because he knew he was going to die. There was a 0% chance that Voldemort would allow him to live in those circumstances, so there's no point in fear.
IMO Grindelwald and Dumbledore were a step (or two or three...) above everyone else, even Voldemort. I don't doubt Voldemort pushed Dark Magic further than anyone else, tapping into truly evil elements. He was always obsessed with the Dark Arts above everything else, while I feel Dumbledore and Grindelwald never were. They were just amazingly talented and powerful, to the point where their superiority turned into hubris, and they at a young age briefly toyed with the idea of conquering the world. Not through evil, but sheer, superior power. Grindelwald was exceptionally powerful in all forms of magic, but never as specialized in Dark Arts like Voldemort did. In many ways, this could make Voldemort more DANGEROUS, but not necessarily more Powerful. My impression on the Horcruxes were that most people weren't impressed with it, rather their reactions (including Slughorn in the movie) were "Why in God's name would anyone want to split their soul?". Voldemort simply didn't care, or didn't believe or understand how that could be a bad thing, while I think Grindelwald never would have sunk to such measures. Grindelwald, like Dumbledore, had a much wider vision, they had explored the world and learned so much more, of every aspect of magic and beyond. Mainly in the name of the Greater Good (even though Grindelwald twisted this vision). The fact that Voldemort not only really respected, but truly feared facing Dumbledore, both in his first and second Wizarding War, speaks a ton. Grindelwald didn't fear Dumbledore, but truly respected him as an equal. At least back when they were friends, I believe that anyone of them could have beaten the other, depending on the day. But Voldemort, as much as he hated Dumbledore, didn't trust he could actually beat Dumbledore, which is why he never tried. Their duel at the Ministry in the book makes this very clear, naming the chapter "The Only Man He Ever Feared", culminating in a clear display to the readers WHY Voldemort feared Dumbledore. Dumbledore admits after the duel that he has gotten old and slow, and isn't as strong and fast as he used to be. But throughout the entire duel Voldemort felt that Dumbledore was mocking him, that he never took the fight seriously. Voldemort desperately threw Avada Kedavra and other fatal spells left, right and center, while Dumbledore just casually blocked or dodged them, all while making sure to block every spell flying Harry's way, with Bellatrix cowering in the corner, watching in awe. Voldemort asked why Dumbledore didn't even try to use lethal force, and Dumbledore calmly, without any signs of exertion, casually answers him. To me, Dumbledore completely dominates and is in control of that duel. He tries to find the best and safest way to end it - and at the end Voldemort is forced to flee. Elder Wand or not, that entire duel, and taking the name of the chapter into account (and what JK Rowling was trying to prove with it), truly cements for me that Voldemort was never on their level. Not with Dumbledore at the age of 110 with a tired body and a very distracted mind, and certainly not in his and Grindelwald's prime.
@@JadedTaste Cause Dumbledore never feared him. He feared that Voldemorts army would be even more powerful, but he never feared the man himself. On the other hand, Voldemort was scared of Dumbledore.
You must remember two things, when Dumbledore fought Voldermort with the Elder Wand, he had two handicaps, one the protection of Harry and Voldermort could not be killed. I was also thinking the curse on Dumbledore's hand, but unsure if that happened before or after the battle. Finally, age, Dumbledore was not longer in his prime, and the toll of previous battles over his lifetime made him a weaker wizard. Personally think Grindelwald was more powerful but restrained himself due to his humanity. Grindelwald would not kill or destroy unless he has to, while Voldermort would.
Grindelwald did kill meaninglessly. In the crimes of grindelwald,he murders a baby without almost no reason at all. Grindelwald was however,wiser than You-Know-Who.
Although could there be a chance that Dumbledore became stronger the older he became, idk about this but it is certain that he became wiser, so could his powers have advanced?
But during his battle with Voldemort, he had the elder wand, the most powerful wand in existence, so he had an enormous advantage over Voldemort. Beside, Voldemort was way over 70 when he died, so it's not like he was particulary young.
There's no such concept as partially good or bad...you either be bad or be good...Voldemort would do anything for his sake...Grindelwald relies on skimming and planning that can be thwarted by one loose end
I think that Voldemort might have been more powerful with magic, but his fixation on immortality gave him a less diverse skillset than Grindelwald. I would also say that Grindelwald's character was stronger than Voldemort. To paraphrase Batman to Ra's Al Ghul, Voldemort does not cheat death, he whimpers in fear of it.
Exactly I think that was another reason why Grindelwald didn't create horcruxes not only to preserve his humanity but because it also kept him on his toes more. Historically once someone doesn't have to worry about death anymore it tends to make them sloppy and careless. When Voldemort was first attending Hogwarts he was smart, cunning and knew how to manipulate people but that all went out the window once he became "immortal".
The books show that Dumbledore clearly believes that Voldemort, whilst extremely limited in his understanding of life and his knowledge of the magical world as a whole (wandlore, hallows, history etc), is the most powerful/skilled wizard ever in terms of sheer magical ability. ‘He had powers I will never have’. Minerva counters by saying this gap only exists because of their choices and not because of their abilities. Albus is flattered by this quote, but doesn’t necessarily seem to agree with it. ‘I knew that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard alive. I knew that even my most complex and powerful protective spells and charms were unlikely to be invincible if he ever returned to full power’. Dumbledore doubles down on this belief by mentioning Voldemort’s raw magical superiority yet again in OOTP. Whilst not straight up saying Voldy is better, this is pretty much as close as it gets. Dumbledore also says: ‘he was probably the most brilliant student Hogwarts has ever seen’ On top of that he was extremely impressed by Voldy’s magical control before even knowing he was a wizard. Dumbledore has no problem expressing his belief that ‘I was a shade more skillful than Grindelwald’. So modesty doesn’t seem to be a factor whatsoever. All in all it’s quite clear that Dumbledore believes Voldy has the most raw magical ability/power/skill/talent, but that he is extremely flawed in every other department and therefore is still an inferior overall wizard. Then just factor in that Albus beat Gellert while Gellert was wielding the Elder Wand yet he didn't beat Voldemort (although never fully tried because of the prophecy) while he himself was wielding the EW.
I'm gonna go with Grindelwald, he's not out of his mind and he's under control, never did he need horcruxes, he knew that no matter how great or greedy a person is...they have to die one day.
this isn’t a strong argument, let’s compare the duels and feats in voldemort’s duel he was using a regulars wand while dumbledore was using the most powerful wand in the hp universe yet voldemort still countered his attacks, while voldemort was on the offensive he transfigured a fire serpent and sent a killing curse at the same time and for all we know if not for fawkes dumbeldore would have died, meanwhile in grindelwalds duel he wielded the elder wand and lost to dumbeldore while dumbledore was using a normal wand feats voldemort we see voldemort duel 3 professor hogwarts teachers who have harry’s protection and voldemort was using a wand that wasn’t his yet he still beat them voldemort can also fly and speak to snakes and hes immortal, the only one stronger than voldemort is dunbeldore but it’s very close dumbledore>=voldemort>>>grindelwald
Voldy when he wants to kill you: The boy who lived came to die, AVADAARFDHFJRINNSS! Grindy : Hello, Harry. How wonderful of you to finally join me. Please, sit down. Would you like a cup of tea before we get down to business? About that, really, you have to let me explain and understand that........
@漉祤 No. If you read The Half Blood Prince carefully you'll find out that Voldemort, even as a kid, was a great planner, manipulator amd actor. And yes, he was very cold by nature but that's what makes him unique.
@@mohammedfaraazhasankhan1627 7/8 of his soul was removed in most of the Harry vs Voldemort scenes, what u were talking about was when Tom was a kid and had 100% of his soul
@@KingstonD1 probably shouldn't take this comment seriously, but he probably couldn't because we learn in the seventh books that body parts and disfigurements caused by curses often cannot be reversed (George's ear), so if we accept that the dark magic that disfigures dark wizards is a form of a curse then it is probably impossible for his nose to be repaired/replaced
Voldemort’s power came from the fact he couldn’t be killed while he had the horcruxes. Turns out it’s really easy to be aggressive when you don’t have to worry about dying. Grendlewald gives me the impression he was more about gaining a more complete knowledge of magic as a whole, and also has albus to push his skills and ambitions. It’s been said that the battle between dumbledoor and grendlewald was unlike any battle that had been seen. I don’t even think Voldemort pushed dumbledoor as hard as grendlewald did, although his knowledge and experience may have helped with that too
False, Voldemort mastered both offensive and defensive magic. In his duel against Dumbledore he conjured a silver shield which is an object that makes him able to block killing curse and he used his mastery of apparating to get out of the water bobble. Voldemort is stronger, smarter and more skilled than Grindelwald could ever be.
@@johnsean122 The movies is BS. The killing curse can only be blocked by objects. The movie do not show Voldemort using apparating to free himself from the water bobble and the silver shield to block Dumledore's curses which is why people are so clueless about Voldemort and believe he cannot use defensive magic... Voldemort almost kill Dumbledore in the book as Dumbledore would have been hit if Fawkes was not there. Why do you not mention that? Because you guys do anything to discredit Voldemort which is pathetic and childish.
@@johnsean122 Why do people keep using this "Dumbledore did not tried to kill" as an argument? It wouldn't change anything as Voldemort's silver shield is an object which means it can block killing curse. Voldemort attacks from 2 sides where Dumbledore would have been hit either by the snake or the killing curse. If Voldemort had all the time he would eventually beat Dumbledore as Dumbledore would run out of objects to block the killing curse...
In the book Dumbledore himself says that he and Grindelwald had the same level of power but he was "ONLY SLIGHTLY" more skilled. Grindelwald faced Dumbledore in his prime and did the greatest wizarding duel ever seen against the greatest wizard of all time. Voldemort had to flee from an old Dumbledore in the Battle of the Ministry. I think that answers the question.
have to agree with that, if voldy tried to face prime Dumbledore he would be destroyed. for that one thing, iam sure that Grindelwald made things that were actually normal, not evil as the only thing voldy could. i think Grindelwald was better than voldy, while Dumbledore was acostumized to fight it thx to beating Grindelwald somehow. lets be honest, we never saw a movie that would give evil any chance. goodness is always greatness in these movies, all have good endings in the end.
Bro according to Dumbledore Own words voldemort is the most powerful wizard ever. And being younger doesn't needlessly mean he was stronger when talking about magic
Dumbledore knew of the prophecy and that even if Voldemort's body was destroyed he would return. It's quite different. It's clear in the book that Dumbledore was much more powerful than Voldemort and that Grindelwald was on the same level as Dumbledore. Well... the snippet is clear: Voldemort realised from the non-lethal nature of the spell that Dumbledore never meant to kill him. “You do not seek to kill me, Dumbledore?” called Voldemort, his scarlet eyes narrowed over the top of the shield. “Above such brutality, are you?” “We both know that there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom,” Dumbledore said calmly, continuing to walk toward Voldemort as though he had not a fear in the world, as though nothing had happened to interrupt his stroll up the hall. “Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit -” page 814
Also elder wand never chose Voldemort is also another reason for his lack of skills. Grindlewald was able to weld elder wand at the same time when Dumbledore was there, but instead it chose Grindlewald speaks for itself
You're also forgetting about Voldemort's disdain for certain types of magic. Magic Voldemort didn't understand and looked down upon, seeing them as being beneath him, and thus, as a consequence, he tended to grossly underestimate their power, much to his own detriment, as a result (i.e. the power of love). While it's neither confirmed or denied, it's possible Grindelwald did not share Voldemort's disdain for said magics. If true, then this might explain why Grindelwald seemed to display such a superior arsenal compared to Voldemort.
it wasnt ever confirmed, but grindelwald is represented as someone who treasured all kinds of knowledge and was human, so it wouldnt make sense for him to look down upon a specific type of magic as it would be contradictory to his character
When it comes to a duel, it doesn't always matter who's stronger, winning a duel comes with many factors alongside magical power. Other things that are pivotal to winning a duel is skill, casting speed, stamina, intelligence, tactics, ability to think on your feet, versatility, experience, even personality can play a role, rage can blind someone, make them sloppy, their spells may be casted sloppily or even be incomplete, so, the calmer and more focused the Wizard the better chance they have of winning. Even if Voldemort is stronger than Grindelwald, it doesn't mean he'll win in a duel against him, especially since Voldemort wouldn't be leagues above him in strength.
Voldemort isn't exactly "enraged" every time he fights someone. He was not in a fit of blind rage when he was dueling dumbledore. The only time we see him with that kind of rage in duels is honestly against Harry because he doesn't see harry as a legitimate opponent and holds a grudge against him for the damage to his reputation since he was the boy who lived and some people thought that he was bested by a child.
@@bossshxtonly stupid comment. Plot made voldemort who he is... Lilly wasn't killed by voldemort she was killed by plot. Dumbledore wasn't killed by snape he was killed by plot. So on and so forth.
Voldemort is actually quiet calm when dueling… Harry is the only person he comes aggressive. Harry’s literally the reason he went through what he did, so of course he’s going to have more rage with him.
@@MaggithLaVon i wouldn't say voldemort is quiet calm. He can be quite calm but extremely loud. I think voldemort should have required something more to kill him. Not just destroy these objects and then he will die from a spell same as every duel.
I think you also need to consider that Dumbledore was in his prime when he fought Grindelwald The duel also took around 3 hours, rather than the 2 minutes we see him fight voldemort before Voldemort flees The fact the fight lasted so long must mean that it was at a standstill for a very like time (head canon) It's entirely possible that Dumbledore was on the defensive for a great deal of it, while he waited for Grindelwald to tire It would be a lot easier to purely defend and dodge, than to constantly attack, so you wouldn't need to be stronger, just have more stamina You can have the strongest wand in the world, but it doesn't matter if you can't hit your target
@@CulturalMarxist4985 Dumbledore was not in his prime when he faced Voldemort, he was 115 years old, how do you expect Dumbledore to be at his best, that's physically impossible even for a wizard. In addition Voldemort was much younger, he was on the other hand at his peak. Despite this Dumbledore easily stood up to Voldemort, besides Dumbledore does not fully use the abilities of the elder wand. And as long as we talk about it the elder wand just makes its master stronger, it never made it invincible or anything. Dumbledore himself said that the wand had been defeated hundreds of times. Finally here is the proof that Dumbledore was no longer at his peak, on the French wiki after the battle at the Department of Mysteries "His only satisfaction is to see that Dumbledore is aging and that his powers, still powerful, are being affected". Grindelwald have fighting Dumbledore when he was at is prime . But until we see the fight between Dumbledore and Grindelwald we can only speculate who is the stronger of the two. Now if we have to compare Voldemort and Grindelwald I would say: Voldemort = power, Grindelwald = intelligence. But Grindelwald seems more balanced between power and intelligence. So 1 = Dumbledore 2 = Grindelwald 3 = Voldemort
@@VoiD_AtRaX There isn't really anything in the books to suggest that Dumbledore weakened with age. He's even described to have the agility of a much younger man when he's dying in the Half-blood Prince: 'With the sudden agility of a much younger man, Dumbledore slid from the boulder, landed in the sea and began to swim with a perfect breaststroke.' It would only make sense for Dumbledore to have just been more experienced and magically knowledgeable against Voldemort than he was against Grindelwald. He also had the Elder wand against Voldemort.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 You can't count the books. You credit the movies AND the book to Voldemort, where Grindelwald is only present in the movies (except of course when Voldemort visits him). You can't skip books and movies at your leisure. In the film the fight lasts two minutes, and having the images it is clear that Dumbledore is not at full strength , he cannot give himself fully physically . And as I said above, having the elder wand doesn't make you invincible, Dumbledore himself has declared that the wand has been defeated hundreds of times. Let's not bury Grindelwald so quickly, we don't know how the fight went. Perhaps Gellert was about to win until some help came to Dumbledore. Or perhaps Dumbledore has crushed Grindelwald . We can't say . We'll see when the movies come out
I agree, Grindelwald is a more powerful Wizard as he used various types of magic, and would be able to see the protection around Harry. Voldy is the most powerful dark wizard who instilled fear and control.
I really feel like a lot of followers sided by Grindlewald because they did believe in him and his cause. He was able to have calm conversations with people and persuade them while it felt like Voldemort’s followers followed him because they were scared to be against him or wanting power. Idk I just think that if it came down to it I think Grindlewald could have probably persuaded me under circumstances but Voldemort could have never.
I'm just hoping with the change we have a better haircut for GG. The first haircut in the beginning had long hair that made him look like a mad seer which was cool. Then they gave him a Hitler haircut and look. It was badly styled for JD. They did him dirty when doing that!
@@RickySpanish12344 yes...voldy knew he could not die so dumbledore seemed weak...but without horcruxes ... Voldemort was nothing compared to Grindelwald or dumbledore
@@RickySpanish12344 I have no idea why they think Fawkes saved Dumbledore by swallowing the avada kedavra. Dumbledore could easily just have summoned a golden centeur, he just knew fawkes was going to come because of their chemistry.
@@shashwatamukherjee9167 no. Voldemort pushed the boundaries of magic. He is a really gifted wizard. Didnt u see the dual bw him and Dumbledore. Dumbledore had the elder wand but still voldemort was as good( if not better) than Dumbledore.
I think the key difference is their mental state. Grindelwald always seems to have inner peace and isn't struggling with his magic. Voldemort, however, always seems to be acting out of rage. So I think Dumbledore calls voldemort more dangerous for the reason. But as Grindelwald is more stable he could be reasoned with yet is very experienced with his magic.
Regarding Voldemort, I do wonder if the rage and madness was due to his soul being in so many fragments, had he stopped at 2 or 3 would he have retained the charisma Tom Riddle was known for. In his last few years how easily he was tricked and lost to others was pry mostly due to the self inflicted damage.
Voldemort just kills mercilessly...when it comes to displaying wizardry grindelwald is the boss...all that voldemort does is aaaaavaaaadakedaaavraaaaaaa
I think Grindelwald was more powerful. My point in this, is simply, when Dumbledore and Grindelwald faced each other, they where at the peak of their power. And Dumbledore always said that they both where similar in power. When Dumbledore and Voldemort faced each other, Dumbledore was already an old man, and even then Voldemort was only able to get a Draw out of it. And even then Voldemort admitted that Dumbledore had several Chances to kill him in this fight. The only reason as Dumbledore and Voldemort both admits is that killing Voldemort was not enough for Dumbledore. So all this shows me that Grindelwald is more powerful. And if we take fightingstyle and Skill its even more clear that Grindelwald was more powerful. His style was elegant and had a particular beauty in it. Voldemorts style only focus on the result, pure destructive force without the even the smallest trace of skill or finesse.
and it took many exceptionally strong wizards just to cancel out one of his spells. also voldemort only beats weaker opponents because he spans the kill curse. against skilled opponents he wouldn’t come out on top
I feel like you can look at Voldemort like you can with Darth Vader. After his defeat and having to turn to his horcruxes, he lost parts of himself that he needed to reach his full potential. So the Voldemort we know probably isn't more powerful than Grindelwald, or at least they're on par with each other. But I think that if Voldemort hadn't been defeated at Godric's Hollow, he would have become a lot more powerful. Especially if he owned the Elder Wand
@@devonhoward8620 Eventually he did, yes. But losing parts of his body meant that he could no longer reach the full potential of his power, which is my point.
@@isharpedge8469 false it was actually his mentality that kept him from reaching his full potential. Mid count is a concentration count in blood rather than the total amount in the whole body. He fully wasn’t in the dark due to his reason of turning to the dark side being because of circumstance and to save someone not because of the selfish want of absolute power. Palpatine says it himself.
@@rosebucketz3548 Nah. Physiologically speaking, there's also less volume of blood in Vader for his blood to have concentrations of midichlorians I have read many of the books, and almost all of the EU books And pretty much every single one of them allude to Vader's metal body, which does directly effect his mentality no matter which way you cut it - through his own masochistic punishment of himself or the dark side running through it - his machine body does inhibit his potential as a force user
@@rosebucketz3548 not true lol the man limbs and everything was gone he couldn’t move like he did when he was a jedi…his fighting style even had to change after it so physically being hurt played a factor
One important note is that during Dumbledores duel with Voldemort, Voldemort always seemed to be on the back foot. Despite having the advantage of fighting to kill, the book even describes him possibly being scared. Meanwhile Dumbledore kept calm and collected until Harry endangered himself, implying that he never truly felt threatened.
Based on the fact that Voldemort could cast the unforgivable curses with no problem despite he was in his weakest form and he could break the shield of Hogwarts despite the elder wand resisted him I say he is far more stronger than Grindelwald. His army of inferi was very impressive.
@@headstrongbachelor3152 unforgiveable curses require sort of a minimum power threshold. Spamming spells in HP isn't an issue. Remember, even Crabbe was spamming crucio and avada kedavra in the 7th book.
Voldemorts equivalent feat to Protego Diablo is breaking the entirety of the defensive charms on Hogwarts cast by . Under his own power. Whereas Protego Diabolica was created with the elder wand with both attack and defense. But it lacked in defense compared to the wards on Hogwarts as some spells could still get through and was stopped with a General-Use counter charm by several wizards not considered the Apex of the field (And Nicholas Flammel who was a very old and accomplished wizard.) All in All, I believe Voldemort was more dangerous to the world as a whole, but I think their powers would be very close. But I am biased to Voldemort due to the fact he created and completely mastered unsupported flight, which is a skill thought impossible for a long time. And he did so in less than an ordinary wizards lifetime (average is over 110, Voldemort died well before he was in his 100s.)
A lot of people forget that a reason Grindewald was so powerful was that he wielded the Elder Wand against Dumbledore… that’s how Dumbledore came to own it after defeating Grindewald.
Meh. It made him MORE powerful. It's not like he was weak without it. Again: he's an expert of wandless magic. Going for the most powerful wand is right up his alley, but there's no doubt he'd be a terrifying opponent without it.
@@noneofyourbusiness4294 yes obviously Grindelwald isn’t “weak” without elder wand, but is he as strong as if not stronger than Voldemort? Here is what we know: 1. Grindelwald+elder wand lost against dumbledore 2. Voldemort goes toe to toe (and nearly kills) dumbledore+elder wand. Plus, dumbledore was always trying to avoid a fight with Voldemort. It is pretty clear that Voldemort is more powerful (in a duel) than Grindelwald
@@herohonda4183 Dumbledore vs Grindelwald was an even fight with Dumbledore being in his prime just scraping a victory, yes Gellert had the elder wand but the elder wand wouldn’t perform well for him if he wasn’t incredibly powerful in his own right Dumbledore vs Voldemort was one sided with Dumbledore simply toying with Voldemort as he knew there was no point trying to kill him due to being aware of Voldemort having created Horcruxes but he did want to keep him there long enough for the ministry to see him. He did this whilst incapacitating Bellatrix and protecting Harry without breaking a sweat, not to mention he was way past his prime at this point
@@kray5892 1. There is no proof that dumbledore was not at his “prime”. Wizards fight purely intellectually and not physically so your argument of “prime” is not valid when you look at them through a normal human lens. In fact it is the experience, intellect, knowledge (and talent) which makes a good wizard therefore dumbledore is as strong as if not more strong when he was old. 2. I agree that the dumbledore vs Grindelwald was kinda even with dumbledore just scraping the victory and that was Grindelwald with the elder wand which is no mere joke. Grindelwald lost even with a HUGE power at his disposal. 3. It is true that dumbledore wasn’t trying to “kill” Voldemort as he knew he could not, but what you get wrong is that dumbledore was “toying” with him. If you would have red the books then you would know that dumbledore is the one that nearly died in that fight but he was saved by Fawkes. Had that fight been a proper wizard duel, dumbledore would have been dead. Important to note here that it is dumbledore who has the elder wand in this fight. Even if he can’t kill Voldemort, he could surely try to incapacitate him but he could not. Therefore it is safe to say that even if we assume dumbledore+elderwand to be stronger than Voldemort (which is probably true), there isn’t a big difference between their powers. Again, If you would have read the books then you would know that dumbledore actively avoided fighting Voldemort in the 1st wizarding war too as he knew he couldn’t defeat Voldemort (mainly due to horcruxes) This is not an argument about dumbledore vs Voldemort, that is a more complex debate. This is an argument about voldemort vs Grindelwald and looking at facts it is very clear that without the elder wand Grindelwald is not as strong as voldemort. There is a reason why Voldemort was called the most powerful dark wizard of all time
Voldemort is more powerful, just his sheer will gives him the edge. Grindelwald-as I see it-never had the chance to be pushed towards his limits whereas voldemort did it willingly. Surviving in a corporeal form or as a cursed infant is a testament to how far he was willing to go and how strong his will was. That alone puts him on the top of this list if you ask me, or any list in the wizarding world.
Voldmert's will might stronger than Grindelwald but not stronger than Harry Potter. There is no one in the wizarding who will is more stronger and who is more braver than Harry Potter. Harry beat voldmert in the battle of will in graveyard. So don't go around saying nobody has a better will power than voldmert. Harry has and he is also the only one yo resist his imperius curse.
@@CleverTricks 😅😅😅 If you had read the book, you would have known how Harry was able to beat Voldemort..! If Harry Potter didn't have an Elder Wand, he would never have defeated Voldemort. Harry has not put anything on his own. Harry get used to be helped by others all the time. If no one helps him, Voldemort would've easily killed him. A great powerful wizard like Voldemort was never born in Wizarding world. If you really wanna know about Voldemort, then go and read the book, everyone can speak by watching the film, but once you read the book, then you'll know who was Voldemort who was Tom Marvolo Riddle.
@@aaryankohli5600 if you have common sense you would understand in what context I was talking about. But I guess that's too much to expect from you. I am talking about will power and bravery and you are talking nonsense. First read properly then bother to reply
@@aaryankohli5600 so voldmert didn't have help from his death eaters? Lol if voldmert can have help from his death eaters (a wizard who has 50 years of experience against Harry ) then why can't Harry have help from others. By that logic voldmert is useless without his death eaters if it was not for barty crouch then he would be a wrath forever, if it was not for the death eater he wouldn't be able to do anything on his own, also by the same logic if dumbledoor actually wanted to kill voldmert instead of putting his trust in a prophecy, in a teenager voldmert would have died long back. if it was not for the horcrux he would not be alive in the first place so how about we talk about it then ? Harry Potter beat voldmert end of the story. Only loser cry and give excuses. It's funny people talking Harry having help from others when voldmert also had help so did dumbledoor and Grindelwald none of them were alone they have followers and friends yet some people expect Harry who has not even completed his Hogwarts education overpowered the likes of voldmert and his death eater on his own without help from others
Rajesh Kumar Padhi harry won because voldemort didn’t have plot armor, if you wanna talk about things voldemort did alone, gained knowledge about the dark arts on his own researched horcruxes and made 7 of them-to survive manipulated many to gain higher up
Voldemort referred to by Rowling as: The greatest dark sorcerer of all time COS The most feared dark wizard in 100 years POA The most powerful dark wizard in a century GOF The most powerful dark wizard of all time POTTERMORE And by dumbledore as the most dangerous dark wizard of all time This all seems to indicate that voldemort is the most powerful of the two. Edit- I recently spoke to one of the administrators on the harry potter wiki and he was kind enough to tell me about this. A writing by rowling on pottermore that specifically refers to voldemort as the greatest dark wizard of all time, so there shouldn't be anymore doubt that the statements are what Rowling considers Voldemort to be, and are not the result of a British character bias. The Ministry of Magic has therefore laid down a strict rule that capacity-enhancement is not for private use, but only for the production of objects (such as school trunks and family tents), which have been individually approved for manufacture by the relevant Ministry Department. Both Mr Weasley and Hermione Granger were acting unlawfully when they enhanced, respectively, the interior space of a Ford Anglia, and a small handbag. The former is now believed to be living wild in the Forbidden Forest at Hogwarts, and as the latter played no insignificant part in the defeat of the greatest Dark wizard of all time, no charges have been brought. www.wizardingworld.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/extension-charms
COS: Took place in britain, it is very likely people in the US think Grindelwald is more powerful since his campaign was mainly in the US, people in Britain think Voldemort is more powerful because that was where he campaigned. Everything the same. Dumbledore said he's the most powerful but often indicated he was the dumber of the two. He often said things like "he learned nothing".
@@ashtonlu9757 if the statements were actually made by characters in the series you could make that argument, however most of the statements were made by Rowling herself, and since she is the creator of the series and can choose the extent of their powers then it's not a biased opinion of another wizarding community.
@@ashtonlu9757 dumbledore only called voldemort ignorant in matters of love, trust, loyalty and friendship, saying that there was a power beyond the reach of any magic was a truth he could never understand. In terms of magic dumbledore refer to voldemort as the most brilliant student Hogwarts ever had and that his knowledge of magic is more extensive than any wizard alive. As for Grindelwald it's been stated that he doesn't understand the nature of things he considers simple implying that he only cares about what he considers powerful magic.
Dumbledore, who Voldemort feared, stated that Grindelwald was just as powerful as him in their prime, with Dumbledore only being "... a shade more skillful." To quote Dumbledore himself.
@@christophermidbon4196 dumbledore said that about Grindelwald (who also feared him to the point of making a blood pact with dumbledore so he wouldn't have to fight him, and hunting down an obscurus to kill dumbledore for him based on a vision he had) while Grindelwald had possession of the most powerful wand in the series. Dumbledore after gaining the elder wand once stated voldemort was the most brilliant student Hogwarts ever had and that his knowledge of magic was more extensive than any wizard alive and that his own protective spells would be unlikely to be effective once voldemort had regained his full power. This prime belief that dumbledore was more powerful in 1945 is baseless, magic is never shown to decline with old age, Rowling even seems to have a preference for the older characters to be more powerful.
Grindelwald. Grindelwald fought Dumbledore in his prime and it took forever even though Dumbledore eventually got the best of him. Voldemort was afraid of him even in his old age and actively avoided him. Edit. Also Dumbledore took the elder wand after he defeated Grindelwald who had possed it during their duel.
Voldemort probably had more raw power, but Grindelwald had so much more skill and speed with his spells. Grindelwald was also much more difficult to stop. He nearly took over all of europe
There are loads of people in the comments saying that Grindelwald has more personality and stuff, but if people decide to read the books they will find out that Voldemort is just as manipulative as Grindelwald maybe even more! You see this in the sixth book mostly during the memories in the pensieve: a big part they legt out of the movies. You can see that Voldemort tricks loads of people.
Yea, grindelwald and voldemort when he was young were both like hitler. Both were very manipulative. Voldemort changed his manipulative ways when he grew powerful while grindelwald didn’t. Grindelwald is more like a magical hitler figure. Both had slogans like for the greater good and hitlers one people one nation slogan. Both are almost equally powerful but dumbledore said that voldemort was the strongest dark wizard and he had powers no wizard had before
@@azinap345 YES!! finally somebody who knows what they're saying! Its so annoying when people who have only watched the movies think they know so much about Harry Potter
Like you can be clear about your feeling for voldemort....but for grindelwald....he is damn more powerful , dangerous and manipulative....like for a sec during his speech I was also almost convinced...his speech and his ways....oh my days.... Also...on one point grindelwald is better than voldemort...because when one of his followers died...he went near her and kind of presented grief for her unlike voldemort who doesn't care about his followers...and also grindelwald called his followers friends.... No doubt dumbeldore also got manipulated by him...and loved him in a philosophical way... Voldemort is phsycopath who wants immortality and wanna become the most powerful....he also fears death....while grindelwald was doing everything for his greater good and he could even die for that...he had better understanding than voldemort...for albus dumbeldore defeated him but wasn't able to defeat voldemort cause he didn't want to....he was just holding him.... Voldemort vs. Harry potter.....voldemort and his arrogance are dead... Grindelwald vs. Harry potter.... Epic and difficult to tell ..whether it had be the boy who lived or the boy who died... Voldermort was darker but grindelwald was wayyyy more dangerous... He also understood emotions....I am not saying he was a good guy but atleast he was better than voldemort.... Like voldemort wanted to kill a baby and he didn't even think once...and grindelwald couldn't see the baby die... Grindelwald is a leader....his followers....he calls them frnds...and they are real loyal to grindelwald... Voldermort is a ruler....who doesn't care for his followers and his followers follow him out of fear not loyalty
Perhaps Voldemort's big mistake was creating the Horcruxes. He may have had more power BEFORE he started making them and the more Horcruxes he made, the more soul was sucked out of his spells. He expected them to make him invulnerable, but it seems they did the opposite. He was still the most dangerous because he was a total psychopath. But not invincible.
My money's on Grindelwald, as it has been stated many times that Dumbledore was the one wizard that Voldemort feared the most. Yet I never got the impression that Grindelwald feared Dumbledore, rather they both cared for and loved each other and wouldn't have wanted it tot reach the point of having to defeat each other. As they both shared the same goalat one point, they just happened to choose different and opposing paths in order to achieve that goal.
judging by the spells thrown by the 2 voldemort seems definately more powerful and have more knowledge in dark magic. dumbledore however looks the most powerful with that crazy fire spell
Voldy wasn’t ruthless he was a coward. There is a difference. His greatest fear was death. And spat on love. Which is needed to help someone grow and mature.
Voldemort was a evil psychopath who avra kadavara everything to the ground he was more of a terrorist group, while Grindelwald inspired people to his side and envision a new world in a era the world has never seen before and was trying to save his people and could most likely do it with his legendary capabilities, elder wand and obscurous to achieve it
Grindelwald, Voldemort and Dumbledore all had the same goal. "Make magic accessable to everyone, no hiding" but all three of them had different opinions on how to achieve their goal. Harry was willing to give up magic entirely as seen by him breaking the elder wand and sacrificing his own life to the hawcrux... That is why he won in the end. The three legendary wizards mentioned, evil or not wanted to be wizards in a world full of people who appreciated it's splendor, Harry wanted to simply be a person. This is why I believe him to be the most powerful boy to ever live in the wizarding world. Not for his ability to use magic, but for his ability to see a life without magic and still feel fulfilled.
Dumbledore wasn’t really trying to attack Voldemort during the duel though, he seemed to mainly be on the defense the whole time on purpose, for what I assume was to waste Voldemort’s time and for the aurors to arrive. Idk, Dumbledore seemed like he really wasn’t trying to attack at all. Could just be that he wasn’t in his prime anymore as well.
@Lockjaw Harry never had potential? So, that whole thing with the basilisk was nothing. Learning the Patronus, a spell most adult wizards couldn't perform and at thirteen no less, then casting one that same year that drove off dozens of Dementors. Everything he did in the tournament, and in the graveyard was nothing? Mind you, Voldemort used Harry's blood specifically to counter his mother's protection, and he beat Voldemort in a battle of wills after being hit with the Cruciatus twice before their duel even started, and this was after everything he went through in the maze.
Grindelwald was definitely more powerful because he managed his achievements and won his supporters using understanding instead of fear. That may make him seem weaker, but it makes him more unique.
@@TheDeathmail Well in my opinion harry potter books only focus cople of spells while Grindelwald books are more unique. U can say Harry Potter books are also little childish till book 5
If you need manipulation and charm to get power it's because you are weak. You can only rule through fear if you are the strongest, so you literally prove with your own argument that Voldemort is more powerful than Grindelwald.
@@headstrongbachelor3152 and that rule through fear led him to not trusting anyone. No leader can survive without trusting their subordinates. It's not as if Grindelwald couldnt have used fear. The entire world feared Grindelwald as the most powerful dark wizard of all time. But Grindelwald recognised that people who joined him out of personal loyalty, respect were much better as subordinates. Using ur unbridled power at every instance is not a sign of power. It's a sign that u r an attention seeking child demanding recognition. That's what voldemort came across as, all he did, all the power he attained, was to get Dumbledores recognition. His praise.
Think about it for a second. Grindelwald's fight with Dumbledore was said to be a fight that NO OTHER wizard or witch could ever be matched. This is because, Grindelwald knew the limits of Dumbledore and Voldemort didn't which is why Dumbledore was the only wizard he feared. He knew that he couldn't push Dumbledore like how Grindlewald did. So if we think about it, yes Grindlewald is stronger than Voldemort cause if he used Dumbledore's weaknesses during their fight, he would've won, which would make HIM the most powerful wizard of all-time (having the Elder Wand as well) which would just make him overpowered. That's why J.K. had Voldemort the main villain and not Grindelwald. I think she knew that he would've been the toughest enemy in Harry Potter, that's why she put his last scene in Harry Potter 8 (Deathly Hallows Part 2) to make him good, and die in the honor of his old lover, Albus Dumbledore. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Grindlewald laughed in Voldemort's face, because he knew he could take him on in a fight. Nobody ever witnessed that if Grindlewald was in his prime as a wizard, he would've easily defeated prime Voldemort cause in his prime, he knew of light magic, love, and dark magic. He used all three to manipulate his followers.
Dude… maybe he laughed at him because he knows that in the end evil people won’t win. Grindelwald is definitely powerful and smart but Voldemort is even more powerful and smart. The only weakness of Voldemort is that he doesn’t feel love and he overrates himself so isn’t even thinking about the possibility that someone else could have found the room of requirement. And some people in the comments say “Voldemort has no skill he spamming the death curse all the time” Yeah that’s because it’s the most op spell in a battle. It’s always 1 hit, it’s unblock able.
You cant compare Grindelwald and Dumbeldores fight with any fight Voldemort and Dumbeldore had because it happened so many years apart. I feel like Dumbeldore improved a lot over those years
I believe Grindelwald is the most powerful wizard only because of the movie plot and when it was created.The advancements in moviemaking technology allowed them to create a more powerful character with more horrifying spells than what can be done in the past.
Yes … Because the 4 years between the last HP movie and first FB movie really made a huge difference 🤡 And the effects -both CGI and practical-were better in the Harry Potter series … Movie technology has literally nothing to do with this.
this doesn't even make sense considering the movies are based on books, the technology has nothing to do with it. You're just used to the idea of the 3 curses. You don't need to abuse those to be a villain. You can torture someone with incendio and be 1000x worse imo
I don't think so. If you look at HP fight scenes, duels with adult wizards look more in line with how FB duels look. That's because when kids fight, they're still inexperienced, and that's where you get like 90% of HP's fight scenes. Meanwhile, FB combatants are experienced adults and trained aurors
@@hassaanmalik6813 Grindelwald was killed by Voldemort wandless. Dumbledore decided to choose his own manner of dying. If there was a fight between young dumbledore and voldemort,he would win.
In my opinion, it varies: Voldemort- His strongest ability was his agility, he was really quick at casting spells, and despite his primary use of the killing curse he actually had a deep knowledge of the dark arts, other than that he was one of the best legilimens ever, Grindelwald- He was mainly a stratergist, he is also said to be a good enough seer, hence he maid plans on the basis of what he saw as a possible future. This combined with his excellent potioneering made him almost invincible Dumbledore- His bigggest skill was an extensive knwledge of spells their applications,He also understood old magic better than anybody.Finally he had learned the importance of planning in his nrief period with gellert. In my opinion all of them were wonderful at influencing people but due to grindelwald's stratergic approach he stood the most chance in th real world. Voldemort's hobbie i.e. killing, on the other hand created fear aand uncertainity in the public this was highly effective in weakening tthe enemy berforehand. Dumbledore was calm. This enraged both of the others also his persistence in defeating without harming made him an idol. In a duel, I don't think voldy stood a chance against either of the two,since he tough excellent at destroying the weak stood no chance against the strong. Dumbledore vs. Gellert grindelwald clearly had stronger magic than dumbledore but as I can deduce he unlike tom was not very agile in using it.This gave the Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore an advantage since he was also an accomplished legillimens himself and hence ciuld use a spell that grindelwald wasn't ready for at all.
Grindelwald in my opinion is far stronger. Grindelwald has conviction, an actual goal and no fear of anyone when it comes to achieving that goal and thats.. a very dangerous thing. Voldemort is weaker than grindelwald because of his fears. He fears death, which is why he made the horcrux's and he also fears the one who lived and prefers his underlings to do the work that he himself should do. I dont really think the elder wand should be taken into account because... in all honesty we dont know how much it adds to the wielders power.
@@thecensoredmuscle563 yet Voldemort was defeated by Potter (aged 17), when Grindelwald was defeated by equally-aged Dumbledore - of course there is more to see in fantastic beasts, but G-money will always beat nosey bones
@@thecensoredmuscle563 the books also states dumbledore was the strongest wizard and also state that Grindelwald is the strongest wizard. I think that’s just something they say. But what is true is that Voldemort really did fear dumbledore. Hence why he never attacked hogwarts when dumbledore was alive and why he always tried to avoid fighting dumbledore until he had to in the Order of the Phoenix.
The final battle is already canon. Dumbledore has a brother and sister, the sister is in love with grindelwald or something, dumbledore and aberforth(?) show up to stop him, their sister is collateral damage, dumbledore disarms the elder wand. the specifics on what grindelwald was up to were never in the harry potter books though. they basically say at some point they had to step in to stop a catastrophe and don't specify what it was.
Grindelwald wants to lead a revolution that includes all wizard kind, Voldemort wants to seize power and kill muggleborns. Grindelwald wants power for all wizards, Voldemort wants power for only a select few. Their campaigns were different and attracted different people for different reasons. I think Dumbledore is more powerful then both, but I’d put Gellert second, Tom third atm, especially after the three Fantastic Beasts films.
Exactly , Voldemort was a elitist terrorist group destroying everything to the ground and struck too much fear to actually have a real fight to win the world, while Grindelwald inspired people to his cause to fight for the greater good and revolutionize the world into a era the world has never seen before with Truth, freedom and love and he actually meant it , he was a visionary with great goals and with his legendary skills, elder wand and obscurous he could of done it
I think people really underestimate Voldemort and he is very clearly an equal if not superior to Grindelwald in terms of power. I'll list of few strong points of evidence here: 1. Dumbledore himself said Voldemort was a more dangerous dark wizard than Grindelwald. 2. Voldemort had never actually been stopped by Dumbledore, even though he was actively trying to do so. In fact, Voldemort had never really been defeated fairly by another wizard or witch in a duel. Voldemort was only stopped the first time due to Lily's love magic, which was unexpected and not planned by Dumbledore at all. Harry also only managed to survive all those duels against him because their wands were twins and only defeated Voldemort because the wand he was using was loyal to Harry and not Voldemort. On the other hand with Grindelwald, Dumbledore was incapable of moving against him due to the blood pact, and even after it was shattered he was reluctant to move against him because of their history. Once Dumbledore finally decided to move on Grindelwald, he was able to successfully defeated and stop him fairly in a 1 on 1 duel. 3. Voldemort was actually successful in conquering the UK. While Grindelwald was waging war across all of Europe he never actually was successful in conquering the UK specifically. Also keep in mind that Grindelwald lost to Dumbledore in a duel, despite being the Master of the Elder Wand, which should have been a fairly significant advantage for him. There's a good chance that when Voldemort went up against Dumbledore, Dumbledore was even more powerful as he was the Master of the Elder Wand.
9 Differences Between VOLDEMORT and GRINDELWALD: ua-cam.com/video/RmmTFUhdYNM/v-deo.html
First!
And cool vid
I would say I believe Grindelwald is more powerful than Voldemort, but he also has more humanity inside, which may be reason why he got defeated.
Voldemort has long past the humanity part and it blinded him in a way that Grindelwald still could see through.
They both lost because their opponent had something neither of them had at that moment but among themselves I do see Grindelwald being the best. And actually when it comes to that it’s possible to see his reasoning for all he’s doing while Voldemort seemingly goes for just plain revenge for all his past human pain and has grown into power addict with little or no logical reason.
Idk just my humble opinion how I see it since being in this universe since 8 years old.
I think grindelwald is especially more powerful because of the new movie. I am unsure but it seemed like he could see the future
@@dragonrider8693 he could kind of but if I am right voldemorth could peform such task as well but
This is an entirely ludicrous debate. The greatest wizard of ALL time is obviously Gilderoy Lockhart, Order of Merlin 3rd Class, Honorary member of the Darkforce Defense League, and 5 time winner of Witch Weekly's Most Charming Smile Award.
😂😂
Hahaha.. Nice!
And also very skilled in healing broken arm . 🤣🤣🤣
But he didn’t get rid of the Bandon Banshee by smiling at her!
XD
Neither is strong
The only strong wizard/witch in existence is Gilderoy Lockhart.
Smol Chungus 🤣
Too bad he didn't stop Voldemort.
Lol
:>
You made my day😂😂😂
The conclusion of this video is that Dumbledore is definitely going to give 10 points to gryffindor for no particular reason
That, may be true.
"10 points to gryffindor" dumbledore said calmly
Jk
He's got a crush on HARRY!!!! .. he whispered
I mean one sense it is understandable since he knew he had to send Harry to Voldemort at some point. Obviously whether occasional ten points makes it up, or whether there was any other way, is for everyone to decide themselves 🙂
I think it’s been established that Voldy, at least in terms of raw magical power was stronger then Grindlewald. However, Grindle was a more cunning and creative wizard. He didn’t just spam Avada Kadavra.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Voldemort is more reckless, while Grindelwald always has a strategy.
i think the Voldenator was definitely more powerful but Big Grind was probably more skilled
but to be fair spaming avada kadavra is pretty good move 😂
@@minuru5940Well didn't work against Harry I guess 😂
@GojoOfficialYT dosnt count he had God mode enabled
Unfortunately, Grindelwald couldn't against his greatest enemy of all time: Amber Heard.
She was so powerful that she literally banished him from the Harry Potter universe.
💀🤣
Amber Heard is a really powerful and bad bitc... I mean, witch
im fuckin dead
You made my day😂
They asked him to come back and he refused and said he'd never come back no matter how much they paid him.
Voldemort: Die, die, die!
Grindelwald: We will change the world.
I think Grindelwald has much more personality than Voldemort, and I like him better because of it.
Hitler wanted also to change the world... However he isn't a good guy
Alex20 he never said grindelwald was a good guy... he just said that he has more character than Voldemort, which I agree on
@@numa4191 maybe but at last they have the same opinions at the start of voldemort at least because after he wanted just the others to be scared of him...
he’s one of those villains you can understand and relate to in some ways
@@RobinLundqvist i think voldemort deserves more pitty from us because he wasnt be loved by anyone... Grindelwald wanted muggles to serve wizards for no reason
Grindelwald: fought with more than 25 aurors with no help
Voldermort: defeated by a 17 year old
Edit: its a joke guys stop fighting in comments
That had the help of Dumbledore, an an entire school of magic students and the majority of the Wizarding World. Grindelwald was widely accepted by the masses of the Wizarding World only the ministries hated him.
Grindelwald lost to Dumbledore even though he had the Elder wand. Voldemort stalemated Dumbledore when Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand.
Harry was given the power to vanquish Voldemort, so he wasn't just an ordinary wizard
@@CulturalMarxist4985 Dumbledor had no intentions of killing voldemort at the ministry. He wanted the draw so the ministers could come and see that the dark lord had returned.
@@omotiverat Voldemort acknowledged that Dumbledore wasn't trying to kill him, 'cause he noticed that he wasn't using the killing curse, but he didn't have to kill Voldemort to defeat him. He defeated Grindelwald without killing him. He and Voldemort were pretty evenly matched even while Dumbledore wielded the power of the Elder wand. Dumbledore also only avoided Voldemort's simultaneous attack of conjuring the serpent and firing a killing curse, 'cause Fawkes swooped in. For all that we know, Voldemort would have killed Dumbledore if Fawkes wasn't there.
The problem is, Voldermort only has one weakness... and he keeps slamming himself against it. If you remove all the times that Voldermort tries to be the one to kill Harry instead of someone else, his plans are actually solid.
he feared of the prophecies.
Dumbledore?
@@Drago1467 his insistence on being the one to kill harry
Send in the pawns,observe from afar,then attack at the right moment. All things Voldemort didn't do until 1998. By that time,it was too late.
@@nimzi4479 To be fair, there way no way to know Harry was part him. Lets look at the firsts.
1. Sorcerers Stone - Blast Harry from afar, don't touch him doof.
2. Faux did most of the work, Faux and the Chamber of Secrets.
3. My favorite one, but the movie is essentially just there for the adults shown through Harrys eyes.
4. Cross had Potter at his mercy multiple times, the Death Eaters could have killed him at any moment. But Voldy wanted to be the one to do it.
5. This is legitimately the first time they never had a shot to kill Harry, he was well-defended.
6. Harry was captured, they could kill him... nope nope have the make sure this is the real Harry - not like they weren't mindlessly killing innocent people before.
7. If you kill your mortal enemy... freaking destroy the corpse.
Everybody is a gangsta until Dumbledore comes calmly
HARRRY DID YU PUT YA NAME IN DU GOBLET OF FYAAAAAAAAAAA
Haaaaaaaarrrrrrryyyyyyy
@@DevPatel-nf5mp It's Hhhaaarryyy Potah (Voldemort's style from chamber of secrets)
@bluetree 737 Gandalf 😂😂 Lol😂😂. So yo didn't watched the Fantastic Beasts series? huh?
Hmm.. i guess you could come in other ways
Dumbledore as an old man fought Voldemort to a draw whilst protecting Harry and pinning Bellatrix, Voldemort was not able to break his defenses despite all dumbledore had on his plate. Grindelwald strikes me as more skillful and he doesn't spam the killing curse.
Grindelwald lost to Dumbledore even though he had the Elder wand. Voldemort stalemated Dumbledore when Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand.
Voldemort did not stalemate Dumbledore.
Dumbledore intended only and only to make him stay that is why he was playing with voldy. He stayed because Dumbledore wanted him to, thus he was not much concerned in allowing voldy to think he can win.
@@abcxyz- Dumbledore and Voldemort were pretty evenly matched even while Dumbledore wielded the power of the Elder wand. Voldemort neutralised all of Dumbledore's attempts to defeat and capture him by himself: he transfigured Dumbledore's jet of fire into a serpent and he escaped from the sphere of water. Meanwhile, Dumbledore only avoided Voldemort's simultaneous attack of conjuring the serpent and firing a killing curse 'cause Fawkes swooped in. For all that we know, Voldemort would have killed Dumbledore if Fawkes wasn't there.
@@CulturalMarxist4985
Oh sir, it was Dumbledore's intention to keep playing with Voldemort and to keep him there till someone saw would see him. Dumbledore literally struck fear in his eyes. So your words seem a bit off
@@abcxyz- People would be able to see Voldemort if Dumbledore captured him. What's your point?
i think Gridelwald uses magic as a form of art, he moves his wand like he's moving it with a melody of music. he embraces magic, and uses it with elegance, while Voldemort uses magic purely to kill and uses no creativity.
Voldemort's followers joined him out of fear, while Grindelwald's followers were manipulated and joined him with free will
Manipulation and free will don't go together 😂
@@safwanshuhaib9968 well, kinda tbh 🤷🏾♂️. Though it is trickery it is still their choice and technically he wasn’t lying either, he literally had what I call a ‘Satan complex’ a master manipulator that uses the truth and prinkles lies all over it to the point you may even be right but your method/morals are entirely wrong, very hard to discern between right and wrong when this is the case, but voldermort was just wild lol, both him and his followers can be summed up with just 3 words “they feared death”, though the biggest irony’s in the fact they called themselves ‘death eaters’
But still Voldemort is way stronger wizard
not all voldemort's followers like bellatrix or barty crouch jr joined him with free will and even lucius and snape did even if lucius would fear him after his failures he joined him by free will and shared his ideas and even if snape would be turned as a spy after he joined eath eaters by free will before he becamed spy only wormtail joined him by fear the others wanted to join him (exept those under the imperius curse of course)
Spot on
Grindelwald gets my vote. He was more careful, more clever, and he didn't underestimate his opponents. He was also more charismatic, able to sway people to his side by appealing to their desires to live out in the open. He also brought up the coming WW2 and said that he could prevent it. He used fear, but he also used friendship, whereas Voldemort seemed to primarily sway people to his side with fear and power.
I think him having to think to get people to his side says it all Voldemort just did it with strength and fear.
What’s more charismatic than Voldemort’s “hehehe”
@@slumpywumpy4166 Gilderoy’s smile xD
I wanna see the Wizarding w0rld in ww2. The great wars I'm willing to bet wouldn't have lasted as long if wizards were involved. Could be wrong. Though it explains that old war joke with a guy given a broom being told just say tankety tank tank tankety to survive 😆
@@zackford4497 Grindelwald could've done it with strength and fear too, but he didn't want nor need to do so. The only thing he wanted was a good world for wizards and witches, and cared for his followers. That's why they wouldn't ever betray him if he was in a critical situation. But voldemort's followers would if they saw a chance of him being defeated.
Grindelwald: Aims for the greater good of all wizards, fight against the most powerful wizards of all time
Voldemort: Aims to not die, however died twice, the first time killed by a baby the second time by a student
Even with the Elder wand, Grindelwald lost to Dumbledore. Voldemort stalemated Dumbledore when Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand.
@@Collier-gy2ni There isn't really anything to suggest that Dumbledore weakened with age. He's even described to have the agility of a much younger man when he's dying in the Half-blood Prince:
'With the sudden agility of a much younger man, Dumbledore slid from the boulder, landed in the sea and began to swim with a perfect breaststroke'.
It would only make sense for Dumbledore to have just been more experienced and magically knowledgeable against Voldemort than he was against Grindelwald. He also had the Elder wand against Voldemort.
Died 3 times
@@CulturalMarxist4985 voldemort had the elder want but was killed by harry, the elder wand seeks for stronger wizard, therefore the master of elder want turned to dumbledore because he is maybe slightly stronger than grindelwald
First time he was killed by lily not harry
Nagini would know since she spent time with both
She probably informed and inspired Tom into committing the acts he did in order to perhaps prepare the world for Grindelwald return that would be quite a cunning way of doing things using the insecurity of a man who is rejected by his muggle father and left destitute by his squib of a mother
what if TOM Riddle and Grindelwald team up
@@kiroshiren
Dumbledore: ah sh#t here we go again.
@@darthxing7289 Tom's mother was not a squib, otherwise she would have never been left alive by her family or able to make the love potion.
She had been uneducated because she never went to Hogwarts (thanks to her father) and at home she hadn't learnt much.
@@elenastanica4621 she was a near Squib she still had the ability to access our family Magic and if she was a Full Witch she would use the imperius curse on Tom senior and she would have stated that and she would have stated that he would never abandon his wife or child instead of using the love potion only non-magical or squibs would use such a tactic
But this is my opinion but I do appreciate someone pointing their own point of view of facts it grabs me the opportunity to to point out my own :-)
Grindelwald for me is the greatest Wizarding World villain as he uses the power of manipulation to gain followers. He was also the master of the Elder Wand for a number of years!
Of course
Even though I rate grindelwald a lot more than voldemort let's not forget that grindelwald didn't earn the elder wand, he stole it
@jack rogers Yes so true, but there's something I haven't been able to understand, I thought the wand chooses the wizard so since they didn't earn it then it shouldn't have worked for them and let's not forget that this is the most powerful wand
Leroy Ceezar
Didn’t Ollivander also say that,
“If you’re any wizard, you would be able to cast spells through any wands.”
And Voldy also said that,
“The extraordinary magic is me, I am extraordinary, not the wand.” Or something along the lines.
@@mastergamingnic1681 I stand corrected
A point for Voldemort: he created the taboo spell and cursed a word around the globe that allowed him to listen in on anyone who spoke his name. That took some power.
Did it allow him to listen in? I thought it just pinged the location of the one saying it.
@@Likexnerno he could genuinely listen in and knew EXACTLY where they was
@@CyanideAndSeratonin The taboo cleared away any concealing magic in the area and revealed the location of the speaker, at least that's how I remember it.
When did it say the taboo gave him the ability to listen in on people?
not to "listen in on anyone" though
Obviously Grindewald because he’s played by Johnny Depp. ⚡️
Kaena Choo, yup.
Yes
Yup
Ya Grindawald
I agree. Grindelwald is stronger.
Voldemort only killed Snape because he was jealous of Snape’s nose.
Lol
😂 hahaha 😂
=,D
🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣OH HELL
Voldemort: Adddddddavaaaaakaaadaavvvaaa
Grindelwald: You are saying it all wrong. It's avada kedavra.
Hahhaha Lol
XD
Stop, stop, stop you're going to take someone's eye out, besides you're saying it wrong, Just IMAGINE Grindelwald saying this😂😂.
@@charmi839 Grindelwald would say: stop stop stop, just because you don't have a nose doesn't give the right to take them from other people.
@@charmi839 lol 😂😂
I think its avara kedavra
Grindelwald is incapable of completely destroying Voldemort due to his horcruxes, but I feel like, besides dumbledore, he would be the only other wizard to figure out Voldemort’s secret in the first place. Voldemort was powerful, but Grindelwald was incredibly intelligent
nobody could figure those out unless they was of the slytherin house... and u had harry's smart friends u needed harry's whole GANG to be voldemort's horcrux's alone and find them. Otherwise ur chalked lol thats just a fact nobody even beat voldemort one time besides harry. And anytime it looked like someone beat voldemort it was voldemort beating himself because harry's scar contained a part of his soul which made him the 7th horcrux which is why they both passed out in the forest when voldemort tried to kill him and at the school when harry faked his death. everytime there was something powerful protecting harry otherwise its EZ GG lol.
@@IparanoiaZ um
...... Dumbledore was kicking Voldemort's ass,old Dumbledore at that
@@MRGooodwineTV didn’t he die there? In that fight?
@@IparanoiaZ Nope he didn't he was killed in a later book
Dumbledore did not knew about the horcruxes before Harry came with the destroyed diary to him. There is no way Grindelwald could ever beat Voldemort.
Considering Grindelwald could keep up with Dumbledore when he was in his prime while Voldemort struggled against Dumbledore who was well past his twilight years and needed to essentially cheat using Horcruxes to avoid dying completely, I'd say Grindelwald is the superior wizard.
I wouldn't say "struggled" more like he didn't want to fight any longer because the aurors were on their way. In any case, I'm not big on Harry Potter stuff, but I'd say it would be a 50/50 shot for both
Why do you think younger Dumbledore was stronger than more experienced Dumbledore with Elder Wand?
@@fiber_king2334 i would think spell casting still puts some sort of stress to the body? Dumbledore fighting Voldemort had more knowledge and experience but was not in his prime physically and mentally?
Voldemort didnt struggle, he was fighting Dumbledore and sending lightings at harry at the same time, he had to go before he got coughed by even more people
@@fiber_king2334 Well for starters younger is kind of relative as if you do the math based on Dumbledore's age when he died and when he fought Grindelwald he was in his 70s at the time, so to say he wasn't experienced is kind of a stretch. Plus Youth itself does come with plenty of benefits and Dumbledore was 150 at the time he died while the average life expectancy for a wizard is 130, so it's not like Dumbledore was in his prime. Sure he had more knowledge thanks to his experience but hardly what you could call the same level of raw power.
Also you have to keep in mind Grindelwald knew Dumbledore better than pretty much anyone thus could counter him unlike anyone and he wasn't afraid of Dumbledore. He knew he could beat him in a duel if the need arose, while Voldemort was terrified by Dumbledore even though logically Voldemort couldn't be killed thanks to his various Horcruxes.
Also the Elder Wand doesn't seem like the gamechanger people make it out to be. We almost never get a hint it does anything especially noticeable to it's wielders
Regardless of who is stronger, I prefer Grindelwald as a character and villain. I think he’s much more interesting and less stereotypical than Voldemort
I agree. Voldemort is very vanilla. I do like him but he doesnt stand out to me, unlike grindelwald (probably due to depps performance) who is great
Because Voldemort doesn't have depth. He hates non wizards, he fears death, he's extremely powerful, he doesn't have friends or love anyone. He was based on hitler.
Being more "interesting" and "less stereotypical" isn't always a good thing when talking about villains. There's a reason Sauron is still the ultimate bad guy of fiction, and a reason why Satan is still the ultimate bad guy of Legend. Quite frankly, the aspects of "personality" that Voldemort DID posses made him LESS compelling as a villain. A lot can fall on direction and acting as well, there simply is a level of Majesty and Mystery to Grindelwald thanks to Johnny Depp that Voldemort lacks. Voldemort seems more like a junkie in the films than the lord of all evil. Voldemort seems desperate in the films (I've never read the books), while Grindelwald has the prideful arrogance of a true villain. It's not the "humanity" and "personality" that make Grindelwald a more compelling villain, it is the fact that Grindelwald carries the traditional and stereotypical tropes of the villain BETTER than Voldemort does. Grindelwald is powerful and charismatic, Voldemort is desperate and pitiful, and in fact has quite a bit more personality than Grindelwald, and it is precisely because Voldemort has more personality that he isn't able to embody the archetype of the villain as convincingly and compellingly as Grindelwald.
Because he is the heir of slytherin and he hates mudbloods, he is stereotypical.
@@khatack you should read the books. Voldemort in the books is very different to the film version.
Bruh it's kinda obvious. Grindlewald has more advanced cgi that's why he knows more
Exactly, thats basically it
More CGI and a generation that wants amplified battle scenes lol.
its like saying darth maul is better than darth vader because his fights are better choreographed.
His approach against the 20+ aurors was next to no cgi compared to voldemords battles.
And Grindelwald has had more chances to flex his powers using far more powerful spells while Voldemort's only had 1 scene to flex his magical abilities to their fullest and for the most part he just spams Avada Kedarva.
Grindelwald was Dumbledore’s equal. Voldemort put up a good fight, but he never even came close to beating Dumbledore in their duel (even though Dumbledore wasn’t really even trying). Grindlewald was also just as masterful in the dark arts as Voldemort, and would know exactly how to counter every dark spell he used. He’d probably figure out about Voldemort’s horcruxes too, and wouldn’t be afraid to use fiendfyre to destroy them
What are you talking about? Even when he had the Elder wand, Grindelwald couldn't beat Dumbledore. Voldemort stalemated Dumbledore when Dumbledore had the Elder wand. Plus, Dumbledore states more than once that Voldemort is his superior.
@@CulturalMarxist4985but I don’t think that grindelwald would want to kill dumbledore as they used to be friends
I dont remember dumbledore stating it, maybe give the context?@@CulturalMarxist4985
@@CulturalMarxist4985lies dumbledore never stated that
@geekyradical4985 Incorrect. Voldy didn't stalemate Dumbledore, it was the other way around. Dumbledore wasn't trying to defeat Voldy, he was trying to bide time for Order members and aurors to show up, whilst protecting Harry, keeping Bellatrix pinned down and casually conversing with someone he didn't see as his equal. Ultimately, he was toying with Tom and Tom even says as much.
I mean when you look at it in the crimes of grindelwald , grindelwald can’t stay in the same room when they kill a child , while Voldie over here is ready to kill Potter Himself , grindelwald has humanity and has a soul , and most importantly a nose while Voldemort doesn’t
grindelwald would probably adopt the kid if he's a wizard, sadly he's a muggle
You've got your priorities straight
It's not that he couldn't stay in the room, he didn't want to, it was beneath him. He looked at muggles with disdain. He didn't think of muggles as people but as things to be thrown away when not useful. Just listen to his speech in the tomb.
@@lucifrmrningstr2992 It was like putting down a dog to him.
humanity and soul is a weakness not strength :)
Another point for grindelwand was that his influence over the Wizarding world was worldwide while it seemed voldemort could only influence great Britain
His influence did happen to spread around the world, however most notably and in much more capacity Europe.
I’m guessing Voldemort posed more of a threat to the world than Grindelwald did, and world magical governments were on higher alert. It seems Voldemort’s army was considerably larger than grindelwalds. The reason the emphasis is placed in Europe is because that’s where not only his horocruxes are, but also because that’s where Harry is. If Voldemort got rid of Harry and there was nobody to stop him, I think he’d take over the world in a matter of months.
I think Voldemort couldn't care less about the rest of the world, he just wanted what he wanted
@@shoeman6966 ah yes Voldemort posed more of a threat than VOLDEMORT did.
@@zigsteenine8650 I don’t know what you’re talking about. It says grindelwald…c’mon. How can you miss that?
Grindelwald because he has a nose. This gives him an advantage in sniffing his opponents. XD
Sniffing out his opponents too 🤣
when did Voldemort lose his nose? he did have one in the first and second movie :P
@Salman Sadiq ah =)
😂😂😂😂😂
It would also allow more magic to be stored in his body not to mention all the boogies he can flick t his enemies
I’m glad you distinguish between dangerous and powerful. Voldemort struck me as someone more dependent on fear through terror and use of dark magic, whilst Grindewald could rely on admiration for his sheer power and charisma.
Without the killing curse, I don’t think Voldemort would win in a duel VS. Grindewald. And even if they both used it, it still seems like Grindewald would’ve had a the upper hand.
Grindelwald LOST against dumbledore while HE had the elder wand.
Voldemort goes toe to toe against Dumbledore+elder wand. It’s very obvious that Voldemort is going to win a duel against elderwandless Grindelwald even if none of them use killing curses
@@herohonda4183 Could you not argue that emotion/affection played a key factor in the duel between Dumbledore and Grindewald, though?
Dumbledore was arguably the only person Grindewald had an issue with hurting and killing. If he wouldn't commit to the task, I don't think the Elder Wand would be enough for him to win, and for one reason or the other it clearly wasn't.
And from how I understand the battle between Voldemort and Dumbledore, it was a matter of stalling Voldemort and protecting Harry, not defeating him. And Dumbledore didn't really come off as if he struggled.
@@herohonda4183Only in the movies Voldemort goes toe-to-toe against Dumbledore. In the books Voldemort himself acknowledges that an old Dumbledore is holding back and toying with him. Btw, in the books Dumbledore recognized Grindelwald as his equal.
Dumbledore literally stated Voldemort’s knowledge of magic is more extensive than anyone alive that his own most powerful spells wouldn’t work against Voldemort
No. Dumbledore knew about the prophecy and that even if Voldemort's body was destroyed he would return.
Well... the snippet is clear:
Voldemort: "You do not seek to kill me, Dumbledore? Above such brutality, are you?"
Albus: "We both know that there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom. Merely taking your life would not satisfy me".
Voldemort realised from the non-lethal nature of the spell that Dumbledore never meant to kill him.
voldy was scared of death to the point where he made horcruxes to ensure that he wouldn't die
grindelwald wasn't scared of death, he would die for greater good
In a way, Grindelwald kinda searched for Death because he was searching for the deathly hallows and wanted to become the master of death itself.
@@billystokes3917 yeah in order to be powerful, not to fight death in my opinion
@Mike The Owl voldys wasn't immortal though. To be immortal means you never die. He did though. The only things that kept him from permanent death were the horcruxes.
This is semantics really. One could argue that Voldemort wasn't afraid of dying, he just made horcruxes because he knew people would try killing him for what he was going to be doing. Grendewald felt what he was doing was right and that everyone would see it.
Yet Grindlewald died to a killing curse from Voldemort
Voldemort : AAVAADDDAAAA KEDDAVRAAAA...
Hermione: Stop stop stop... you're saying it wrong. Besides you are going to someone's soul out. Its AVADA KEDAVRA.... not AAVAADDDAAAA KEDDAVRAAAA..
Harry : Hermione!!!! You just killed Voldemort!!!!
HAHA
😐
*funny*
100% agree..... 😂
😐
"Dumbledore could do things with a wand that no one else could"
😏
And Voldemort can slap Harry in the face when he can use the killing curse to kill Harry
XD
Pause!
:0
Like use it as a karaoke:/
Honestly I think that Voldimort is slightly more powerful, but if they both fought each other Grindlewald would definitely win. He is just so much smarter than Voldimort, and would definitely outsmart him, like we see Dumbedore doing. Also, I just want to point out that the time when Dumbedore duelded Voldemort, Dumbedore wasn't really trying. He knew that Harry would have to kill him because of the prophecy, and his objective was mostly to keep him in check. Finally, if Rita Skeeter was right in Harry Potter (which she usually half is) the Grindlewald and Dumbedore fight wasn't very even, and at the end Grindlewald would have just surrendered for whatever reason.
Let’s not wank Dumbledore too much, it was called one of the greatest duels of all time which wouldn’t be the case if it was one sided. Albus also says he was only slightly more skilled which implies it was a close fight
Grindlewald has way more potential then voldermort tbh and if dumbledore didn't exist grindlewald would be number one.
I remember seeing somewhere that Grindewald looked down on Voldemort. He looked at Voldemort like a child with nuclear launch codes and not someone who was even close to his or Dumbledore's level of intelict, capability, or humanity. The latter of this was truly an asset that Voldemort natively only saw as a liability.
Yess and I think him patronizing Voldemort also reflects on the respect and love he had for Dumbledore’s intellect. Understanding that even though Albus chose the other side, he was still most powerful
Reasons Voldemort is more powerful than Grindelwald
1. Can fly without using a broom
2. The only wizard ever capable of possession
3. The only wizard who can command dementors like the ministry
4. He had horcruxes that made him immortal. If Voldemort is hit by the killing curse he will return to fight another day if Grindelwald is hit it is over
5. He was the hier of Slytherin
6. Commanded a bigger army than Grindelwald because he had not only wizards but magical creatures as well
7. He was a Legilimens. He could read control and unhinged minds. Like Snape told harry Voldemort took pleasure in unhinging and showing people horrid visions until the were practically begging for death. Grindelwald could however resist this but it just goes to show how powerful Voldemort is.
8. Fake fans with no logic are claiming Dumbledore was in his prime against Grindelwald I beg to differ think about it wouldn't it make sense that Dumbledore was stronger years after he defeated Grindelwald because he then had the elder wand vs in the beginning when he didn't. Dumbledore with the elder wand beats Dumbledore without it. Plus he acquired more knowledge on magic as the years pass.
9. Had more powerful wizards in his army than Grindelwald such as 1. Severus Snape before he left the death eaters.
2 Bellatrix Lestrange
3 Lucius Malfoy
4 Narcissa Malfoy
5 Barty Crouch, Jr
6 Fenrir Greyback
7 Corban Yaxley
8 Antonin Dolohov
9 Peter Pettigrew
10 Thorfinn Rowle
11 Amycus Carrow
12 Alecto Carrow
13 Regulus Black
14 Igor Karkaroff before he left p.s he was powerful to become a headmaster at any school is no easy feat.
15 Pius Thickness
16 Lestrange family most notable Rodolphus and Rabastan the 2 wizard who along with Bellatrix and Barty crouch Jr killed Neville's parents.
17. Almost all of the pure blood families aded Voldemort on his conquest. Who does Grindelwald have Queenie Credence 🤣🤣
10. Grindelwald faced off against quite a few aurors and the end of the fantastic beasts film but we're they any notable witches or wizards. Voldemort faced Kingsley Shacklebolt the second most powerful auror after mad-eye, Horace Slughorn one of the most powerful professors Hogwarts has ever seen and don't forget the boss witch herself Minerva McGonagall she needs no introduction. Voldemort faced all 3 of them on his own do you know how powerful you have to be to fight those 3 on your own and not be obliterated only person who could perform such a feat besides Voldemort is Dumbledore.
11. I could go on for longer but I just wanted to say this also like Dumbledore said Voldemort is the most dangerous wizard ever and Jk Rowling herself said Voldemort is the most powerful dark wizard of all time.
Voldi got his diploma tho didnt he;)
@@sonofthemorning5664 I think we have to wait and see what the next movies show us about Grindelwald, but I also think, to your points, some things are worth mentioning here.
1. JK confirmed that broomless flight, like wandless magic, is possible throughout the wizarding population. Like wands, brooms simply channel the magic in a wizard making it easier to use. However, one can master either given time, practice, and enough magical power. Unlike wandless magic, though, broomless flight would be extremely dangerous to practice, thus probably less mastery exists, leading us to only really see Voldemort doing it. This doesn’t mean that he is more powerful, imo.
2. Each time he possessed a person or living creature, it was in direct relation to his horcrux’s. Only one time did we see him do it after he was “reborn” and that was through Harry, who we later learn is a Horcrux, and is linked to Voldemort. I don’t see this as a “point” for Voldemort where one wouldn’t exist for Grindelwald. Grindelwald simply chose not to create Horcruxes which leads to your fourth point that I’ll get into there.
3. Dementors, from what I gather, weren’t controlled by either the Ministry or Voldemort at any given time. They chose each side during different periods in time because each side was able to give them what they need to keep being. When Voldemort rose to power he was able to give the Dementors more of what they needed, so their allegiance changed. From what I recall, Voldemort even refers to them as “natural allies,” meaning they would be making the choice on their own, not controlled in any way.
4. Just because Grindelwald chose to not create horcruxes does not mean he is less powerful. He and Voldemort had two very different end goals: Voldemort wanted to live forever in his reign of power over both magical and non magical people and creatures, whereas Grindelwald sought to fundamentally shift the balance of power in favor of the wizarding world for himself and generations to come. His end goal didn’t include immortality, so he had no need for the horcruxes.
5. There is no evidence suggesting the heir of Slytherin is any more powerful than any other magical family. Their uniqueness comes with their Parseltounge, for sure, but it is also unclear if any other wizarding families may have had that ability or if the ability existed in the wizarding world as a whole but simply “died out” in all those who weren’t heir’s of Slytherin. Either way, this does not make him inherently more powerful. Grindelwald is a seer, something Voldemort is not, but that does not, inherently, make him more powerful either.
6. The evidence suggests that Grindelwald’s presence and influence stretched across the wizarding world whereas Voldemort’s was limited to the European area. This would actually make Grindelwald’s following bigger, but alas, a following does not a stronger wizard make.
7. Being a Legilimens also does not a stronger wizard make. Especially when you consider that, yes, he was quite good in this specific are of magic but Grindelwald was actually shown to be much, much stronger here. When Voldemort attempted to use this on him while he was in Azkaban, Grindelwald laughed in his face. Mind you, this is after he had been imprisoned for 53! years. He was still able to resist and LAUGH AT Voldemort’s attempt to gain access to his mind. Furthermore, we have seen other wizards master this as well, including Snape. And we briefly are made aware that Draco has at least fully mastered Occlumency as it is implied he is able to shield his mind from Voldemort in the seventh book. And I don’t consider Draco to be a wizard of particularly high skill and power. So it seems this type of magic may not be as difficult as some suggest, just requires practice.
8. Dumbledore never truly fought Voldemort, in any capacity. His “duel” with Voldemort was not one to the death as he was privy to the prophecy and understood that Harry had to die, at a specific time, with a very specific circumstance, for Voldemort to be truly defeated (thanks to Horcruxes, not power) so he wasn’t attempting to best Voldemort at this time. I have little doubt that, had he really wanted or needed to, he would have had no problem defeating Voldemort in this duel. That’s just opinion, though, so holds no weight, much like this “duel”.
9. Again, a following does not a strong wizard make but you’re also basing this entire point off seven books and eight movies, plus loads of JK plot hole fill ins over the years for Voldemort’s following and only two movies and a brief mention in one book of Grindelwald’s. We have no idea the type of wizards choosing to follow Grindelwald or their mastery of magic. Be that as it may, we do have a very strong indication that Credence is a very, very powerful wizard, the likes of which we have never seen. As a boy who could overcome and control his Obscurius as well as his magnificent show of power in the last movie, I think even just having him lends credit to the magical level of his followers. Also, Queenie is very powerful, and to insinuate that she isn’t is like dismissing Hermione’s power in the trio.
10. Again, this is based off an extensive knowledge of Voldemort and his battles and little knowledge of Grindelwald and his.
We could all go on and on forever on this topic, but like the video suggests: we simply don’t know enough about Grindelwald at this point to make a fair assessment of the power of the two wizards comparatively. I am of the current opinion that Grindelwald is stronger than Voldemort based solely on their interaction whilst Grindelwald was in Azkaban as well as Grindelwald’s ability to master the elder wand and Voldemort’s inability. It also seems Grindelwald’s magical knowledge is superior as he was in search of the deathly hallows as a child and Voldemort seemed to either not know of, or chose to not believe in, their existence. Grindelwald has mastered an extensive list of spells that we never saw Voldemort come close to mastering. And, as we’ve seen be a running theme of the Harry Potter verse, love is the strongest magic of all, and we know Voldemort never knew, felt, or understood love while we’ve seen that Grindelwald has and does. It was expressly stated in core HP verse that he and Dumbledore were lovers. He has the ability to feel and express this powerful magic that Voldemort never could. And it also seems the love Grindelwald and Dumbledore had for each other may have been a very, very powerful love as neither of them, from what we currently know, took lovers after.
Your points is trash. All of these abilities of Voldemort doesn’t even have Dumbledor who whoops his ass
Imagine how powerful Snape could have been if he would´t have died so early...
Yes my friend 😊
Average Person I know rip bro
Not very. He was less talented than Sirius and James and had less potential.
not at the same level
True
Most wizards can only move their spoon in a cup coffee without a wand. Grindelwald let a car fly through the air with the greatest of ease.
With a flick of his wrist and without saying a word he created a shockwave that broke apart the ground and bend the train rails. He could heal wounds by simple touching them. Grindelwald summoned the suitcase over to him and then newton scamander's wand into his hand, both times with a silent wave of his hand. In the same instance, Grindelwald also wandlessly lifted Newt Scamander from the ground from across the room and then forced newton, Tina goldstein and Jacob kowalski simultaneously to their knees with their arms locked behind against their backs without a wand or saying a word. He later just rag dolled Credence away from the rails with a silent wave of his hand. Almost all of this was while holding back, because he didn’t want to be discovered and loose his fake identity.
He summoned protego diabolica without saying a word. His version of the spell was so powerful, it was stated that if not contained, it would destroy Paris. It transformed into 3 dragons of blue fire.
Created a white blast that one shotted 5 aurors.
He was described as equal to Dumbledore. While Dumbledore was in his prime.
His occlumency was so strong, not even Voldemort could read his mind even though he was at the weakest point in his life.
He was one of the most talented seers in history. He could see the future with more precision than madam Sybill Trelawney. He doesn't need a Crystal ball or thee to see the future, he just has visions.
I could perform human transfiguration with ease and summon lighting from the sky.
He could become invisible without an invisibly cloak at age 17. He can Apparate in the mid of battle with the greatest of ease.
But on the other hand it was stated Voldemort was the most powerful dark wizard ever so, idk.
I prefer gellert not because of his power but because of his cunning.
I agree to this statement it's not about power it's skills, talent, sheer willpower and cunningness well said my friend.
Voldermort : I dissagreee with your assesssment
Avada kedavra
@@imperiussylvan9571Grindelwald: no wonder you've lost to a child, it is because you're a lost cause my friend.
Block, Avada kedavra.
@@TheMightyCrucibleKnight184 voldermort : A child destined and marked assss my equal.
You had the elder wand and sstill could not beat Albus Dumbledore.
@@imperiussylvan9571 Grindelwald: it's because he had help and it's because I still love him and I forgive him for beating me that day and I know my actions so I welcome him to beat me in the duel, and I welcome death which is you are the one who killed me but I accept death so that I can now join him in the afterlife or not, but I just want to see him one last time, and what about you hmm, you have an army of death eaters, and you have the chance to kill the boy and you did kill the boy but instead using someone else to check if he's dead you use narcissa malfoy to check if he's dead, a wannabe dark lord who has no loyalty to his main follower, using fear to his follower?! ha! What kind of a supremist are you? Using fear to get their loyalty pledge to you , and murdering the muggles, the half-bloods, only the pureblood who will live in the world but you're a half-blood yourself, (lol😂) don't make me laugh voldemort for I am Gellert Grindelwald the greatest dark lord and the true master of the elder wand that ever seen and live, and as for you only for eleven years trying to be the powerful wizard of all, but you couldn't even kill the boy just because the power of love and years later you still couldn't kill him because of your poor hiding spot for you immortality and anger management issue just because he is your equal and you may have seek more knowledge and power than me and yet you still failed and died on the process, you may be smart and a true prodigy but I am the greatest of all that ever lived so, in conclude I gellert grindelwald does not fear death. But you who feared death you are no dark lord, you are a coward so I accept my death, you coward.
( lol😂😅 sorry for if I am out of context here but I still like voldemort raw power but I love grindelwald's charisma and cunningness and more about unknown knowledge from the dark arts, so later again if you reply to this text I'll break down the spell I've made later).
(Protego diabolica, teleport).
For this debate you have to use book Dumbledore and Voldemort, in the movie the director made it appear more even cause 1 sided fights aren't fun to watch. In the books however Dumbledore was quite obviously just toying with Voldemort because he was not fight to kill him, he was just postponing Voldy, the entire fight he is practically talking down to him and calling him Tom over and over again, Voldy was fighting to kill, he so badly wanted to kill Dumbledore
I agree. Dumbledore with the elder wand was the most powerful all the way to his death
bro toying? he cant kill him. and besides Voldemort already won the fight cuz Dumbledore already sentenced to death for destroying the ring hocxrux hes basically dead
@@-D-du7lm go read that section in the book again, its very obvious that Dumbledore is just toying with Voldemort, he is completely out matching him throughout the entire fight and Voldemort has no chance of winning. He is literally just wasting time til everyone else can arrive to prove to everyone that Voldemort really did return
@@-D-du7lm Dumbledore didn't even have the ring horcrux yet at that point
@@-D-du7lm You have things mixed up. Read the books. It's much more pleasurable than movies too.
Grindelwald: Almost destroying Paris with one spell
Voldemort: AVADA KEDAVRAAA!
Protego Diabolica 😈
@@DemonZangetsu23 Which I'm sure even if it was only due to the elder wand allowing him to do it he still created the spell
I mean protego diabolica (the spell Grindelwald used) isn't shown to be powerful enough to destroy all of Paris. It's only when the skull was destroyed in the flames that the spell grew and got out of control.
The only information we're given on the spell is that it creates a wall of blue flames that attack and defend at the same time. There's no mention of giant flaming dragons.
Still my favourite spell but not strong enough to destroy all of Paris on its own.
@@BlackangelKatakuri i never understood, did grindelwald actually have control of the elder wand? He stole it from gregorovich but he never defeated him. So does that mean he never had control of the elder wand in the first place and it was voldemort who did?
@@whitewolf4843 In the PoTTaH wiki it says he stunned the wandmaker let me read the deathly hallows again if this PoTTaH wiki is true
Grindelwald’s style of Magic :
“No worries , we all know that I’m better than you”
Voldemort’s style of Magic:
“THIS ANT HAS DARED TO CROSS ME AND MUST NOW BE DISPENSED WITH MAXIMUM EFFORT”
In a nut shell :)
"No worries, we all know that I'm better than you", is the most Johny Depp 'ish line hands DOWN.
Yeah
I feel like I’d be more afraid to duel grindelwald. Voldemort would just try to overpower you directly or just spam the killing curse. Seems like an easier fight to prep for.
Grindelwald seems far more knowledgeable and skilled. Unpredictable. In the first movie he’s casually taking on the entire task force of like a dozen people. In the second he’s fighting dozens of people and he beat them all with one spell
The Red Inferno Huh? He used spam correctly here, it just means to repeatedly and overwhelming do something. In the deathly hallows pt 2, when Harry & Voldemort fight, he literally is spewing avada kedavras at the speed of light at him lol
Grindelwald gives u a chance to live and fight another day...and voldemort u know you're doomed to death...there's no second chance.
Grindelwald was only knowledgeable and interested in the deathly hallows. Voldemort pushed the boundaries of magic. And the spell which u r talking abt, Grindelwald had the elder wand then. Voldemort could easily overpower Grindelwald.
@@rubenarroyo5663 That's just in the movie.
Dumbledore did say this in the Order of the Phoenix:
"I knew that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard alive. I knew that even my most complex and powerful protective spells and charms were unlikely to be invincible if he ever returned to full power."
He didn't say anything as impressive about Grindelwald.
Theory: Grindelwald and Dumbledore were both the masters of the elder wand at the same time. Both because of their bond and them being the strongest wizards of the time. The elder wand didn't know what to do so it refused to hurt either of the wizards.
Never gonna know what happens because fantastic beasts is cancelled. That’s the only reason I watched them in the first place. 😡
Voldemort really was a one trick pony a lot of times, man just kept casting Avada Kadabra every chance he got like it was a fetish.
@NostalgiaBomb Official do U really want me to reply to that
Well its kind of all you need. Its only blockable by objects. No spell can stop it and once it hits you, youre done.
@@marhen4497 can’t go through solid objects tho so it would be a shame if I just started carrying a rock around with me
@@illmanneredgentlemen4295 as I said. But keep in mind Dumbledore used a damn statue to block voldis spell
@@marhen4497 u ever wonder why Harry doesn’t invest in a 9mm pistol or something
I feel like grindelwald was just a more intelligent wizard with a higher IQ, and was able to max out his powers past his actual capabilities because of that..while Voldemort is more of a raw/unlimited power type of guy, which came more naturally. He was naturally more gifted.
My opinion: give Voldemort grindelwalds brain, and neither potter or dumbledore would have stood a chance
I think that had voldemort not created any horcruxes he would have been near invincible. Tom Riddle was a genius and a master manipulator, all of hogwarts loved him except dumbledore.
@@smol_girlhuandisime8308 but if he didn't create any horcruxes, wouldn't he of died when he killed Lily Potter? His soul wouldn't of been split so he would of died there surely?
@@bengibson502 I think that had he been sane (or as sane as he was at the beginning) he wouldn't have gone after lily and James. He would have planned his attack a lot more carefully and he would have at least sought to find the entire prophecy instead of going after the potters right away after all harry was just a one year old what could he have done as a baby? Even as insane as he was he knew a child couldn't have done much on his own and he understood ( at least somewhat bc he didn't want to agnowledge that he was defeated by a mudblood ) that it was bc of lily's sacrifice that harry survived so without the horcruxes he might have waited until he knew all the facts before attacking a child bc he had time after all. Or he might have considered that harry could be some all powerful being and been more careful bc of it. But I would imagine he could have conquered wizarding Brittain before harry was born so even if everything went wrong and he died bc of the killing curse he would have already won anyway. Or he might have killed dumbledore long before harry was born so could have learned of the prophecy? Bc if it was some random person who heard trelawney ( who was viewed as crazy ) they wouldn't have given it any attention. Or he could have just stunned lily instead of killing her bc he wouldn't have had such anger issues. And Harry would be dead.
he was not , he was how ever less inteligent yes but his really power was his ability to talk too the lowest parts of inbred people that longed for the power of thier ancestors , open power , these people usually had parents that did not have the capacity to show affection , appart from narsisa , this is why malfoy eventually saw he was just trying to be his fathers copy to get his approval , finally seeing the person who he was trained to hate as actually being so much stronger than the weak little bullies that tried so hard to kill him
btw, i have autism and my computor has shut down spell check , sorry
You guys wrong! The most powerful character in Harry Potter is PS1 Hagrid.
Also the sexiest character.
😂
Bore Ragnarok
@@darthbatcow lmao
God dammit 😂
Voldemort I believe was more dangerous because of the amount of hatred he possessed. He was able to harness the power of the “Dark Side” of magic more so than Grindelwald. His connection to the darkness was endless and unmatched. On the other hand Grindelwald was able to walk the line between both “Light” and “Dark” magic.
not an "endless" connection to darkness really. Although, if it were, then it would highlight how even THAT can be counted and defeated by light indeed.
"Yer an energy source, Harry"
I'm a watt?
Yesssssss
omg u genius
@@leomashak6894 I stole the joke, never invented it lol
I like ur honesty
Irrelevant
Grindewald was the only one who would dare to oppose voldemort and mock him in his face without any signs of fear... even dumbledore wouldn't do that
Dumbledore kinda did mock Voldemort when he said "It was foolish of you to come here tonight Tom" at the ministry. Voldemort hated his real name (Tom).
@@billystokes3917 wow I missed that, but you got a point... I always thought Dumbledore called him Tom because they are close in the past (in a good and bad way)
@@massemarboyo8465 That is probably also a reason why Dumbledore called Voldemort Tom.
@@massemarboyo8465 only because he knew he was going to die. There was a 0% chance that Voldemort would allow him to live in those circumstances, so there's no point in fear.
@@massemarboyo8465 tom was student. It is natural for Albus to call him with his name.
Have stronger then these two mag. The Dumbledore
1. Dumbledore
2. Grindewald
3. Voldemort
Delete ur comment
@@shootershillroad6613 delete ur comment
The 3 brothers if the deathly hallows tale was surely more powerful than all 3 ?
@@clc8609 how?
@Ludimeel Sorbo Dumbledore was more powerful than Voldemort
IMO Grindelwald and Dumbledore were a step (or two or three...) above everyone else, even Voldemort.
I don't doubt Voldemort pushed Dark Magic further than anyone else, tapping into truly evil elements. He was always obsessed with the Dark Arts above everything else, while I feel Dumbledore and Grindelwald never were. They were just amazingly talented and powerful, to the point where their superiority turned into hubris, and they at a young age briefly toyed with the idea of conquering the world. Not through evil, but sheer, superior power. Grindelwald was exceptionally powerful in all forms of magic, but never as specialized in Dark Arts like Voldemort did. In many ways, this could make Voldemort more DANGEROUS, but not necessarily more Powerful. My impression on the Horcruxes were that most people weren't impressed with it, rather their reactions (including Slughorn in the movie) were "Why in God's name would anyone want to split their soul?". Voldemort simply didn't care, or didn't believe or understand how that could be a bad thing, while I think Grindelwald never would have sunk to such measures. Grindelwald, like Dumbledore, had a much wider vision, they had explored the world and learned so much more, of every aspect of magic and beyond. Mainly in the name of the Greater Good (even though Grindelwald twisted this vision).
The fact that Voldemort not only really respected, but truly feared facing Dumbledore, both in his first and second Wizarding War, speaks a ton. Grindelwald didn't fear Dumbledore, but truly respected him as an equal. At least back when they were friends, I believe that anyone of them could have beaten the other, depending on the day. But Voldemort, as much as he hated Dumbledore, didn't trust he could actually beat Dumbledore, which is why he never tried. Their duel at the Ministry in the book makes this very clear, naming the chapter "The Only Man He Ever Feared", culminating in a clear display to the readers WHY Voldemort feared Dumbledore. Dumbledore admits after the duel that he has gotten old and slow, and isn't as strong and fast as he used to be. But throughout the entire duel Voldemort felt that Dumbledore was mocking him, that he never took the fight seriously. Voldemort desperately threw Avada Kedavra and other fatal spells left, right and center, while Dumbledore just casually blocked or dodged them, all while making sure to block every spell flying Harry's way, with Bellatrix cowering in the corner, watching in awe. Voldemort asked why Dumbledore didn't even try to use lethal force, and Dumbledore calmly, without any signs of exertion, casually answers him. To me, Dumbledore completely dominates and is in control of that duel. He tries to find the best and safest way to end it - and at the end Voldemort is forced to flee. Elder Wand or not, that entire duel, and taking the name of the chapter into account (and what JK Rowling was trying to prove with it), truly cements for me that Voldemort was never on their level. Not with Dumbledore at the age of 110 with a tired body and a very distracted mind, and certainly not in his and Grindelwald's prime.
Mucho texto
Being able to master the elder wand is also a sign of power .
Great take!
What if its Voldemort that is the only man whom Dumbledore ever feared
@@JadedTaste Cause Dumbledore never feared him. He feared that Voldemorts army would be even more powerful, but he never feared the man himself.
On the other hand, Voldemort was scared of Dumbledore.
You must remember two things, when Dumbledore fought Voldermort with the Elder Wand, he had two handicaps, one the protection of Harry and Voldermort could not be killed. I was also thinking the curse on Dumbledore's hand, but unsure if that happened before or after the battle. Finally, age, Dumbledore was not longer in his prime, and the toll of previous battles over his lifetime made him a weaker wizard. Personally think Grindelwald was more powerful but restrained himself due to his humanity. Grindelwald would not kill or destroy unless he has to, while Voldermort would.
Grindelwald did kill meaninglessly. In the crimes of grindelwald,he murders a baby without almost no reason at all. Grindelwald was however,wiser than You-Know-Who.
@@faratinxinan876 Guess I need to make it clearer, when I say Grindelwald's humanity, I meant toward those who are magical.
Although could there be a chance that Dumbledore became stronger the older he became, idk about this but it is certain that he became wiser, so could his powers have advanced?
But during his battle with Voldemort, he had the elder wand, the most powerful wand in existence, so he had an enormous advantage over Voldemort. Beside, Voldemort was way over 70 when he died, so it's not like he was particulary young.
There's no such concept as partially good or bad...you either be bad or be good...Voldemort would do anything for his sake...Grindelwald relies on skimming and planning that can be thwarted by one loose end
"An Elder Wanding Wielding Grindewald" 12:40 say that fast 3 times
Babbling bumbling band of baboons, babbling bumbling band of baboons, babbling bumbling band of-
@@Snoop_Dugg This is easier than "An Elder Wanding Wielding Grindewald"😂 My tongue isn't twisting at Grindlewald😂😂
It took me like 12 tries but I got it
@@crittysmelody8520 haha the comment just made me think of that scene in GoF
an elder wandill warldirl grldelwawld
I think that Voldemort might have been more powerful with magic, but his fixation on immortality gave him a less diverse skillset than Grindelwald. I would also say that Grindelwald's character was stronger than Voldemort. To paraphrase Batman to Ra's Al Ghul, Voldemort does not cheat death, he whimpers in fear of it.
Exactly I think that was another reason why Grindelwald didn't create horcruxes not only to preserve his humanity but because it also kept him on his toes more. Historically once someone doesn't have to worry about death anymore it tends to make them sloppy and careless. When Voldemort was first attending Hogwarts he was smart, cunning and knew how to manipulate people but that all went out the window once he became "immortal".
The books show that Dumbledore clearly believes that Voldemort, whilst extremely limited in his understanding of life and his knowledge of the magical world as a whole (wandlore, hallows, history etc), is the most powerful/skilled wizard ever in terms of sheer magical ability.
‘He had powers I will never have’. Minerva counters by saying this gap only exists because of their choices and not because of their abilities. Albus is flattered by this quote, but doesn’t necessarily seem to agree with it.
‘I knew that Voldemort's knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard alive. I knew that even my most complex and powerful protective spells and charms were unlikely to be invincible if he ever returned to full power’. Dumbledore doubles down on this belief by mentioning Voldemort’s raw magical superiority yet again in OOTP. Whilst not straight up saying Voldy is better, this is pretty much as close as it gets.
Dumbledore also says: ‘he was probably the most brilliant student Hogwarts has ever seen’ On top of that he was extremely impressed by Voldy’s magical control before even knowing he was a wizard.
Dumbledore has no problem expressing his belief that ‘I was a shade more skillful than Grindelwald’. So modesty doesn’t seem to be a factor whatsoever.
All in all it’s quite clear that Dumbledore believes Voldy has the most raw magical ability/power/skill/talent, but that he is extremely flawed in every other department and therefore is still an inferior overall wizard.
Then just factor in that Albus beat Gellert while Gellert was wielding the Elder Wand yet he didn't beat Voldemort (although never fully tried because of the prophecy) while he himself was wielding the EW.
I'm gonna go with Grindelwald, he's not out of his mind and he's under control, never did he need horcruxes, he knew that no matter how great or greedy a person is...they have to die one day.
this isn’t a strong argument, let’s compare the duels and feats
in voldemort’s duel he was using a regulars wand while dumbledore was using the most powerful wand in the hp universe yet voldemort still countered his attacks, while voldemort was on the offensive he transfigured a fire serpent and sent a killing curse at the same time and for all we know if not for fawkes dumbeldore would have died, meanwhile in grindelwalds duel he wielded the elder wand and lost to dumbeldore while dumbledore was using a normal wand
feats
voldemort
we see voldemort duel 3 professor hogwarts teachers who have harry’s protection and voldemort was using a wand that wasn’t his yet he still beat them
voldemort can also fly and speak to snakes and hes immortal, the only one stronger than voldemort is dunbeldore but it’s very close
dumbledore>=voldemort>>>grindelwald
Mauricio Ortega maybe
Secret answer C: Dumbldore was more powerful than both of them.
Combined
TRUE I WHOLE HEARTEDLY AGREE
No shit. God you’re such a PotterNoob 🙄🙄
Gellert Grindelwald bruh you literally put Grindelwald in your username, talk about obsession
me: *laughs in unlimited power*
2:00 am but I need answers
Lol, it’s 3am here.
It's 2:pm here
10am here
2:15 pm here
6:00pm
Voldy when he wants to kill you: The boy who lived came to die, AVADAARFDHFJRINNSS!
Grindy : Hello, Harry. How wonderful of you to finally join me. Please, sit down. Would you like a cup of tea before we get down to business? About that, really, you have to let me explain and understand that........
Lol
Well grindelwald seems to be reasonable than being a ruthless person
Dumbledore and Grindelwald both have style.
@漉祤 No. If you read The Half Blood Prince carefully you'll find out that Voldemort, even as a kid, was a great planner, manipulator amd actor. And yes, he was very cold by nature but that's what makes him unique.
@@mohammedfaraazhasankhan1627 7/8 of his soul was removed in most of the Harry vs Voldemort scenes, what u were talking about was when Tom was a kid and had 100% of his soul
Voldemort cuz he invented the spell called “NEEEEEEEH”
It’s when you summon a nose
Don't forget "dontyouturnyourbackonmeharrypotter".
@@weirdoman315 and "YAAAAAAAAAAAH"
I’m just saying voldy could have made a spell that gave him a nose
@@KingstonD1 probably shouldn't take this comment seriously, but he probably couldn't because we learn in the seventh books that body parts and disfigurements caused by curses often cannot be reversed (George's ear), so if we accept that the dark magic that disfigures dark wizards is a form of a curse then it is probably impossible for his nose to be repaired/replaced
Voldemort’s power came from the fact he couldn’t be killed while he had the horcruxes. Turns out it’s really easy to be aggressive when you don’t have to worry about dying. Grendlewald gives me the impression he was more about gaining a more complete knowledge of magic as a whole, and also has albus to push his skills and ambitions.
It’s been said that the battle between dumbledoor and grendlewald was unlike any battle that had been seen. I don’t even think Voldemort pushed dumbledoor as hard as grendlewald did, although his knowledge and experience may have helped with that too
False, Voldemort mastered both offensive and defensive magic. In his duel against Dumbledore he conjured a silver shield which is an object that makes him able to block killing curse and he used his mastery of apparating to get out of the water bobble. Voldemort is stronger, smarter and more skilled than Grindelwald could ever be.
@@johnsean122 The movies is BS. The killing curse can only be blocked by objects. The movie do not show Voldemort using apparating to free himself from the water bobble and the silver shield to block Dumledore's curses which is why people are so clueless about Voldemort and believe he cannot use defensive magic... Voldemort almost kill Dumbledore in the book as Dumbledore would have been hit if Fawkes was not there. Why do you not mention that? Because you guys do anything to discredit Voldemort which is pathetic and childish.
@@johnsean122 Why do people keep using this "Dumbledore did not tried to kill" as an argument? It wouldn't change anything as Voldemort's silver shield is an object which means it can block killing curse.
Voldemort attacks from 2 sides where Dumbledore would have been hit either by the snake or the killing curse. If Voldemort had all the time he would eventually beat Dumbledore as Dumbledore would run out of objects to block the killing curse...
@@headstrongbachelor3152 Because it's stated in the book 😏
@@TB-to8uy The books establishes Voldemort as being the greatest and most powerful dark wizard at all time.
In the book Dumbledore himself says that he and Grindelwald had the same level of power but he was "ONLY SLIGHTLY" more skilled.
Grindelwald faced Dumbledore in his prime and did the greatest wizarding duel ever seen against the greatest wizard of all time.
Voldemort had to flee from an old Dumbledore in the Battle of the Ministry. I think that answers the question.
Pretty much
have to agree with that, if voldy tried to face prime Dumbledore he would be destroyed. for that one thing, iam sure that Grindelwald made things that were actually normal, not evil as the only thing voldy could. i think Grindelwald was better than voldy, while Dumbledore was acostumized to fight it thx to beating Grindelwald somehow. lets be honest, we never saw a movie that would give evil any chance. goodness is always greatness in these movies, all have good endings in the end.
Bro according to Dumbledore Own words voldemort is the most powerful wizard ever. And being younger doesn't needlessly mean he was stronger when talking about magic
Dumbledore knew of the prophecy and that even if Voldemort's body was destroyed he would return. It's quite different.
It's clear in the book that Dumbledore was much more powerful than Voldemort and that Grindelwald was on the same level as Dumbledore.
Well... the snippet is clear:
Voldemort realised from the non-lethal nature of the spell that Dumbledore never meant to kill him.
“You do not seek to kill me, Dumbledore?” called Voldemort, his scarlet eyes narrowed over the top of the shield. “Above such brutality, are you?”
“We both know that there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom,” Dumbledore said calmly, continuing to walk toward Voldemort as though he had not a fear in the world, as though nothing had happened to interrupt his stroll up the hall. “Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit -” page 814
Also elder wand never chose Voldemort is also another reason for his lack of skills. Grindlewald was able to weld elder wand at the same time when Dumbledore was there, but instead it chose Grindlewald speaks for itself
You're also forgetting about Voldemort's disdain for certain types of magic. Magic Voldemort didn't understand and looked down upon, seeing them as being beneath him, and thus, as a consequence, he tended to grossly underestimate their power, much to his own detriment, as a result (i.e. the power of love).
While it's neither confirmed or denied, it's possible Grindelwald did not share Voldemort's disdain for said magics. If true, then this might explain why Grindelwald seemed to display such a superior arsenal compared to Voldemort.
Grindelwald respected all magic it's why he was classed as a generational genius alongside dumbledore.
it wasnt ever confirmed, but grindelwald is represented as someone who treasured all kinds of knowledge and was human, so it wouldnt make sense for him to look down upon a specific type of magic as it would be contradictory to his character
When it comes to a duel, it doesn't always matter who's stronger, winning a duel comes with many factors alongside magical power. Other things that are pivotal to winning a duel is skill, casting speed, stamina, intelligence, tactics, ability to think on your feet, versatility, experience, even personality can play a role, rage can blind someone, make them sloppy, their spells may be casted sloppily or even be incomplete, so, the calmer and more focused the Wizard the better chance they have of winning.
Even if Voldemort is stronger than Grindelwald, it doesn't mean he'll win in a duel against him, especially since Voldemort wouldn't be leagues above him in strength.
Voldemort isn't exactly "enraged" every time he fights someone. He was not in a fit of blind rage when he was dueling dumbledore. The only time we see him with that kind of rage in duels is honestly against Harry because he doesn't see harry as a legitimate opponent and holds a grudge against him for the damage to his reputation since he was the boy who lived and some people thought that he was bested by a child.
Neeeeeeeeerrd
@@bossshxtonly stupid comment. Plot made voldemort who he is... Lilly wasn't killed by voldemort she was killed by plot. Dumbledore wasn't killed by snape he was killed by plot. So on and so forth.
Voldemort is actually quiet calm when dueling… Harry is the only person he comes aggressive. Harry’s literally the reason he went through what he did, so of course he’s going to have more rage with him.
@@MaggithLaVon i wouldn't say voldemort is quiet calm. He can be quite calm but extremely loud. I think voldemort should have required something more to kill him. Not just destroy these objects and then he will die from a spell same as every duel.
I think you also need to consider that Dumbledore was in his prime when he fought Grindelwald
The duel also took around 3 hours, rather than the 2 minutes we see him fight voldemort before Voldemort flees
The fact the fight lasted so long must mean that it was at a standstill for a very like time
(head canon) It's entirely possible that Dumbledore was on the defensive for a great deal of it, while he waited for Grindelwald to tire
It would be a lot easier to purely defend and dodge, than to constantly attack, so you wouldn't need to be stronger, just have more stamina
You can have the strongest wand in the world, but it doesn't matter if you can't hit your target
What makes you say that Dumbledore wasn't in his prime when he fought Voldemort?
Also, what makes you say that the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald lasted for hours? The books don't mention how long it lasted.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 Dumbledore was not in his prime when he faced Voldemort, he was 115 years old, how do you expect Dumbledore to be at his best, that's physically impossible even for a wizard.
In addition Voldemort was much younger, he was on the other hand at his peak.
Despite this Dumbledore easily stood up to Voldemort, besides Dumbledore does not fully use the abilities of the elder wand.
And as long as we talk about it the elder wand just makes its master stronger, it never made it invincible or anything. Dumbledore himself said that the wand had been defeated hundreds of times.
Finally here is the proof that Dumbledore was no longer at his peak, on the French wiki after the battle at the Department of Mysteries "His only satisfaction is to see that Dumbledore is aging and that his powers, still powerful, are being affected".
Grindelwald have fighting Dumbledore when he was at is prime .
But until we see the fight between Dumbledore and Grindelwald we can only speculate who is the stronger of the two.
Now if we have to compare Voldemort and Grindelwald I would say: Voldemort = power, Grindelwald = intelligence. But Grindelwald seems more balanced between power and intelligence.
So 1 = Dumbledore 2 = Grindelwald 3 = Voldemort
@@VoiD_AtRaX There isn't really anything in the books to suggest that Dumbledore weakened with age. He's even described to have the agility of a much younger man when he's dying in the Half-blood Prince:
'With the sudden agility of a much younger man, Dumbledore slid from the boulder, landed in the sea and began to swim with a perfect breaststroke.'
It would only make sense for Dumbledore to have just been more experienced and magically knowledgeable against Voldemort than he was against Grindelwald. He also had the Elder wand against Voldemort.
@@CulturalMarxist4985 You can't count the books. You credit the movies AND the book to Voldemort, where Grindelwald is only present in the movies (except of course when Voldemort visits him). You can't skip books and movies at your leisure.
In the film the fight lasts two minutes, and having the images it is clear that Dumbledore is not at full strength , he cannot give himself fully physically .
And as I said above, having the elder wand doesn't make you invincible, Dumbledore himself has declared that the wand has been defeated hundreds of times.
Let's not bury Grindelwald so quickly, we don't know how the fight went. Perhaps Gellert was about to win until some help came to Dumbledore. Or perhaps Dumbledore has crushed Grindelwald .
We can't say . We'll see when the movies come out
I agree, Grindelwald is a more powerful Wizard as he used various types of magic, and would be able to see the protection around Harry. Voldy is the most powerful dark wizard who instilled fear and control.
I really feel like a lot of followers sided by Grindlewald because they did believe in him and his cause. He was able to have calm conversations with people and persuade them while it felt like Voldemort’s followers followed him because they were scared to be against him or wanting power. Idk I just think that if it came down to it I think Grindlewald could have probably persuaded me under circumstances but Voldemort could have never.
We're going to miss Johnny Depp 😭😭
I'm just hoping with the change we have a better haircut for GG. The first haircut in the beginning had long hair that made him look like a mad seer which was cool. Then they gave him a Hitler haircut and look. It was badly styled for JD. They did him dirty when doing that!
@Mauricio Ortega lol. Someone must have the same haircut. 🤣
Are we?
@@TheDarkRaven dude his hair in crimes of Grindelwald was awesome. Also, it was johnny who chose it btw
@@lucifrmrningstr2992 I suppose it's up to debate. Now we'll see how it turns out in the next movie. Whenever that comes out. 😢
At the height of Grindelwald's power vs height of Voldemort's power.... Grindelwald may have an edge due to the elder wand
I agree. Voldemort's main advantage was the Horocrux's ... Dumbledore was handling him just fine in their duel (in the books).
@@RickySpanish12344 yes...voldy knew he could not die so dumbledore seemed weak...but without horcruxes ... Voldemort was nothing compared to Grindelwald or dumbledore
@@RickySpanish12344 I have no idea why they think Fawkes saved Dumbledore by swallowing the avada kedavra. Dumbledore could easily just have summoned a golden centeur, he just knew fawkes was going to come because of their chemistry.
@@shashwatamukherjee9167 no. Voldemort pushed the boundaries of magic. He is a really gifted wizard. Didnt u see the dual bw him and Dumbledore. Dumbledore had the elder wand but still voldemort was as good( if not better) than Dumbledore.
@@arshvirssandhu because he had horcruxes...both Dumbledore and Voldemort knew Voldemort could not die
I think the key difference is their mental state. Grindelwald always seems to have inner peace and isn't struggling with his magic. Voldemort, however, always seems to be acting out of rage.
So I think Dumbledore calls voldemort more dangerous for the reason. But as Grindelwald is more stable he could be reasoned with yet is very experienced with his magic.
Regarding Voldemort, I do wonder if the rage and madness was due to his soul being in so many fragments, had he stopped at 2 or 3 would he have retained the charisma Tom Riddle was known for. In his last few years how easily he was tricked and lost to others was pry mostly due to the self inflicted damage.
Voldemort just kills mercilessly...when it comes to displaying wizardry grindelwald is the boss...all that voldemort does is aaaaavaaaadakedaaavraaaaaaa
Well yeah, up until it was used against Harry Potter it was an undefeated move.
I think Grindelwald was more powerful. My point in this, is simply, when Dumbledore and Grindelwald faced each other, they where at the peak of their power. And Dumbledore always said that they both where similar in power. When Dumbledore and Voldemort faced each other, Dumbledore was already an old man, and even then Voldemort was only able to get a Draw out of it. And even then Voldemort admitted that Dumbledore had several Chances to kill him in this fight. The only reason as Dumbledore and Voldemort both admits is that killing Voldemort was not enough for Dumbledore. So all this shows me that Grindelwald is more powerful. And if we take fightingstyle and Skill its even more clear that Grindelwald was more powerful. His style was elegant and had a particular beauty in it. Voldemorts style only focus on the result, pure destructive force without the even the smallest trace of skill or finesse.
and it took many exceptionally strong wizards just to cancel out one of his spells. also voldemort only beats weaker opponents because he spans the kill curse. against skilled opponents he wouldn’t come out on top
The biggest difference between Grindelwald and Voldemort is, Grindelwald has never gotten his ass kicked by a first grader.
I feel like you can look at Voldemort like you can with Darth Vader. After his defeat and having to turn to his horcruxes, he lost parts of himself that he needed to reach his full potential. So the Voldemort we know probably isn't more powerful than Grindelwald, or at least they're on par with each other. But I think that if Voldemort hadn't been defeated at Godric's Hollow, he would have become a lot more powerful. Especially if he owned the Elder Wand
Except Vader became even more powerful after his defeat.
@@devonhoward8620 Eventually he did, yes. But losing parts of his body meant that he could no longer reach the full potential of his power, which is my point.
@@isharpedge8469 false it was actually his mentality that kept him from reaching his full potential. Mid count is a concentration count in blood rather than the total amount in the whole body. He fully wasn’t in the dark due to his reason of turning to the dark side being because of circumstance and to save someone not because of the selfish want of absolute power. Palpatine says it himself.
@@rosebucketz3548 Nah. Physiologically speaking, there's also less volume of blood in Vader for his blood to have concentrations of midichlorians
I have read many of the books, and almost all of the EU books
And pretty much every single one of them allude to Vader's metal body, which does directly effect his mentality no matter which way you cut it - through his own masochistic punishment of himself or the dark side running through it - his machine body does inhibit his potential as a force user
@@rosebucketz3548 not true lol the man limbs and everything was gone he couldn’t move like he did when he was a jedi…his fighting style even had to change after it so physically being hurt played a factor
One important note is that during Dumbledores duel with Voldemort, Voldemort always seemed to be on the back foot. Despite having the advantage of fighting to kill, the book even describes him possibly being scared. Meanwhile Dumbledore kept calm and collected until Harry endangered himself, implying that he never truly felt threatened.
I would like to see Voldemort fight Grindelwald in his prime. That would be a battle to see, psychopath vs sociopath.
Voldemort was not even born yet 🤣🤣🤣...he was a child when dumbledore age is like 50 to 70 something
@@rishwinray9396 but it would still be a great battle to see
@@killer_greag3541 yes
Sherlock fan
@@rishwinray9396 Voldemort passed Hogwarts when Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald.
Based on the spells I saw Grendelwald use I'd say he is actually the more powerful. His break out scene was very impressive.
Based on the fact that Voldemort could cast the unforgivable curses with no problem despite he was in his weakest form and he could break the shield of Hogwarts despite the elder wand resisted him I say he is far more stronger than Grindelwald. His army of inferi was very impressive.
@@headstrongbachelor3152 unforgiveable curses require sort of a minimum power threshold. Spamming spells in HP isn't an issue. Remember, even Crabbe was spamming crucio and avada kedavra in the 7th book.
@@adib3011 Crabbe was stronger than it was believed. He also conjured the fiendfire curse despite it killed him in the end.
You can't compare how powerfull they are on how many spells you saw in the movies LMAO 😂
That's on the movie director and production to decide LUL
Voldemorts equivalent feat to Protego Diablo is breaking the entirety of the defensive charms on Hogwarts cast by . Under his own power. Whereas Protego Diabolica was created with the elder wand with both attack and defense. But it lacked in defense compared to the wards on Hogwarts as some spells could still get through and was stopped with a General-Use counter charm by several wizards not considered the Apex of the field (And Nicholas Flammel who was a very old and accomplished wizard.) All in All, I believe Voldemort was more dangerous to the world as a whole, but I think their powers would be very close. But I am biased to Voldemort due to the fact he created and completely mastered unsupported flight, which is a skill thought impossible for a long time. And he did so in less than an ordinary wizards lifetime (average is over 110, Voldemort died well before he was in his 100s.)
A lot of people forget that a reason Grindewald was so powerful was that he wielded the Elder Wand against Dumbledore… that’s how Dumbledore came to own it after defeating Grindewald.
Meh. It made him MORE powerful. It's not like he was weak without it. Again: he's an expert of wandless magic. Going for the most powerful wand is right up his alley, but there's no doubt he'd be a terrifying opponent without it.
@@noneofyourbusiness4294 yes obviously Grindelwald isn’t “weak” without elder wand, but is he as strong as if not stronger than Voldemort?
Here is what we know:
1. Grindelwald+elder wand lost against dumbledore
2. Voldemort goes toe to toe (and nearly kills) dumbledore+elder wand. Plus, dumbledore was always trying to avoid a fight with Voldemort.
It is pretty clear that Voldemort is more powerful (in a duel) than Grindelwald
@@herohonda4183 Dumbledore vs Grindelwald was an even fight with Dumbledore being in his prime just scraping a victory, yes Gellert had the elder wand but the elder wand wouldn’t perform well for him if he wasn’t incredibly powerful in his own right
Dumbledore vs Voldemort was one sided with Dumbledore simply toying with Voldemort as he knew there was no point trying to kill him due to being aware of Voldemort having created Horcruxes but he did want to keep him there long enough for the ministry to see him. He did this whilst incapacitating Bellatrix and protecting Harry without breaking a sweat, not to mention he was way past his prime at this point
@@kray5892 1. There is no proof that dumbledore was not at his “prime”. Wizards fight purely intellectually and not physically so your argument of “prime” is not valid when you look at them through a normal human lens. In fact it is the experience, intellect, knowledge (and talent) which makes a good wizard therefore dumbledore is as strong as if not more strong when he was old.
2. I agree that the dumbledore vs Grindelwald was kinda even with dumbledore just scraping the victory and that was Grindelwald with the elder wand which is no mere joke. Grindelwald lost even with a HUGE power at his disposal.
3. It is true that dumbledore wasn’t trying to “kill” Voldemort as he knew he could not, but what you get wrong is that dumbledore was “toying” with him. If you would have red the books then you would know that dumbledore is the one that nearly died in that fight but he was saved by Fawkes. Had that fight been a proper wizard duel, dumbledore would have been dead. Important to note here that it is dumbledore who has the elder wand in this fight. Even if he can’t kill Voldemort, he could surely try to incapacitate him but he could not. Therefore it is safe to say that even if we assume dumbledore+elderwand to be stronger than Voldemort (which is probably true), there isn’t a big difference between their powers.
Again, If you would have read the books then
you would know that dumbledore actively avoided fighting Voldemort in the 1st wizarding war too as he knew he couldn’t defeat Voldemort (mainly due to horcruxes)
This is not an argument about dumbledore vs Voldemort, that is a more complex debate. This is an argument about voldemort vs Grindelwald and looking at facts it is very clear that without the elder wand Grindelwald is not as strong as voldemort.
There is a reason why Voldemort was called the most powerful dark wizard of all time
Voldemort is more powerful, just his sheer will gives him the edge. Grindelwald-as I see it-never had the chance to be pushed towards his limits whereas voldemort did it willingly. Surviving in a corporeal form or as a cursed infant is a testament to how far he was willing to go and how strong his will was. That alone puts him on the top of this list if you ask me, or any list in the wizarding world.
Voldmert's will might stronger than Grindelwald but not stronger than Harry Potter. There is no one in the wizarding who will is more stronger and who is more braver than Harry Potter. Harry beat voldmert in the battle of will in graveyard. So don't go around saying nobody has a better will power than voldmert. Harry has and he is also the only one yo resist his imperius curse.
@@CleverTricks 😅😅😅 If you had read the book, you would have known how Harry was able to beat Voldemort..! If Harry Potter didn't have an Elder Wand, he would never have defeated Voldemort. Harry has not put anything on his own. Harry get used to be helped by others all the time. If no one helps him, Voldemort would've easily killed him. A great powerful wizard like Voldemort was never born in Wizarding world. If you really wanna know about Voldemort, then go and read the book, everyone can speak by watching the film, but once you read the book, then you'll know who was Voldemort who was Tom Marvolo Riddle.
@@aaryankohli5600 if you have common sense you would understand in what context I was talking about. But I guess that's too much to expect from you. I am talking about will power and bravery and you are talking nonsense. First read properly then bother to reply
@@aaryankohli5600 so voldmert didn't have help from his death eaters? Lol if voldmert can have help from his death eaters (a wizard who has 50 years of experience against Harry ) then why can't Harry have help from others. By that logic voldmert is useless without his death eaters if it was not for barty crouch then he would be a wrath forever, if it was not for the death eater he wouldn't be able to do anything on his own, also by the same logic if dumbledoor actually wanted to kill voldmert instead of putting his trust in a prophecy, in a teenager voldmert would have died long back. if it was not for the horcrux he would not be alive in the first place so how about we talk about it then ? Harry Potter beat voldmert end of the story. Only loser cry and give excuses. It's funny people talking Harry having help from others when voldmert also had help so did dumbledoor and Grindelwald none of them were alone they have followers and friends yet some people expect Harry who has not even completed his Hogwarts education overpowered the likes of voldmert and his death eater on his own without help from others
Rajesh Kumar Padhi harry won because voldemort didn’t have plot armor, if you wanna talk about things voldemort did alone,
gained knowledge about the dark arts on his own
researched horcruxes and made 7 of them-to survive
manipulated many to gain higher up
Voldemort referred to by Rowling as:
The greatest dark sorcerer of all time COS
The most feared dark wizard in 100 years POA
The most powerful dark wizard in a century GOF
The most powerful dark wizard of all time POTTERMORE
And by dumbledore as the most dangerous dark wizard of all time
This all seems to indicate that voldemort is the most powerful of the two.
Edit- I recently spoke to one of the administrators on the harry potter wiki and he was kind enough to tell me about this. A writing by rowling on pottermore that specifically refers to voldemort as the greatest dark wizard of all time, so there shouldn't be anymore doubt that the statements are what Rowling considers Voldemort to be, and are not the result of a British character bias.
The Ministry of Magic has therefore laid down a strict rule that capacity-enhancement is not for private use, but only for the production of objects (such as school trunks and family tents), which have been individually approved for manufacture by the relevant Ministry Department. Both Mr Weasley and Hermione Granger were acting unlawfully when they enhanced, respectively, the interior space of a Ford Anglia, and a small handbag. The former is now believed to be living wild in the Forbidden Forest at Hogwarts, and as the latter played no insignificant part in the defeat of the greatest Dark wizard of all time, no charges have been brought.
www.wizardingworld.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/extension-charms
COS: Took place in britain, it is very likely people in the US think Grindelwald is more powerful since his campaign was mainly in the US, people in Britain think Voldemort is more powerful because that was where he campaigned.
Everything the same.
Dumbledore said he's the most powerful but often indicated he was the dumber of the two. He often said things like "he learned nothing".
@@ashtonlu9757 if the statements were actually made by characters in the series you could make that argument, however most of the statements were made by Rowling herself, and since she is the creator of the series and can choose the extent of their powers then it's not a biased opinion of another wizarding community.
@@ashtonlu9757 dumbledore only called voldemort ignorant in matters of love, trust, loyalty and friendship, saying that there was a power beyond the reach of any magic was a truth he could never understand.
In terms of magic dumbledore refer to voldemort as the most brilliant student Hogwarts ever had and that his knowledge of magic is more extensive than any wizard alive.
As for Grindelwald it's been stated that he doesn't understand the nature of things he considers simple implying that he only cares about what he considers powerful magic.
Dumbledore, who Voldemort feared, stated that Grindelwald was just as powerful as him in their prime, with Dumbledore only being "... a shade more skillful." To quote Dumbledore himself.
@@christophermidbon4196 dumbledore said that about Grindelwald (who also feared him to the point of making a blood pact with dumbledore so he wouldn't have to fight him, and hunting down an obscurus to kill dumbledore for him based on a vision he had) while Grindelwald had possession of the most powerful wand in the series. Dumbledore after gaining the elder wand once stated voldemort was the most brilliant student Hogwarts ever had and that his knowledge of magic was more extensive than any wizard alive and that his own protective spells would be unlikely to be effective once voldemort had regained his full power.
This prime belief that dumbledore was more powerful in 1945 is baseless, magic is never shown to decline with old age, Rowling even seems to have a preference for the older characters to be more powerful.
Grindelwald. Grindelwald fought Dumbledore in his prime and it took forever even though Dumbledore eventually got the best of him. Voldemort was afraid of him even in his old age and actively avoided him.
Edit. Also Dumbledore took the elder wand after he defeated Grindelwald who had possed it during their duel.
Voldemort probably had more raw power, but Grindelwald had so much more skill and speed with his spells. Grindelwald was also much more difficult to stop. He nearly took over all of europe
There are loads of people in the comments saying that Grindelwald has more personality and stuff, but if people decide to read the books they will find out that Voldemort is just as manipulative as Grindelwald maybe even more! You see this in the sixth book mostly during the memories in the pensieve: a big part they legt out of the movies. You can see that Voldemort tricks loads of people.
Yea, grindelwald and voldemort when he was young were both like hitler. Both were very manipulative. Voldemort changed his manipulative ways when he grew powerful while grindelwald didn’t. Grindelwald is more like a magical hitler figure. Both had slogans like for the greater good and hitlers one people one nation slogan. Both are almost equally powerful but dumbledore said that voldemort was the strongest dark wizard and he had powers no wizard had before
@@azinap345 YES!! finally somebody who knows what they're saying!
Its so annoying when people who have only watched the movies think they know so much about Harry Potter
@@damobum6080 ikr. Most of them judge the characters by the actors portraying them
@@azinap345 That, and they go by the hype. The Fantastic Beasts movies have better CGI, which creates the illusion of Grindelwald being more powerful.
Voldemort is more powerful no argument and in my opinion Dumbledore got more powerful with age not less
Can't see myself watching a movie without Depp playing Grindelwald... He did it so perfectly, it just makes me sad to know he got kicked out of it.
Exactly we will never go to theatre to watch remaining fantastic beast ... Because without depp there is no Grindelwald
Gets abused by his wife and gets cancelled because she lied about it. shocker
thats quite sad tbh
Petition. Let's go.
The reason Depp was removed from the film is atrocious, however I have absolute faith that Mads Mikkelson will be an amazing Grindlewald
Grinderwald is an interesting character
Voldermort is just evil.
Like you can be clear about your feeling for voldemort....but for grindelwald....he is damn more powerful , dangerous and manipulative....like for a sec during his speech I was also almost convinced...his speech and his ways....oh my days....
Also...on one point grindelwald is better than voldemort...because when one of his followers died...he went near her and kind of presented grief for her unlike voldemort who doesn't care about his followers...and also grindelwald called his followers friends....
No doubt dumbeldore also got manipulated by him...and loved him in a philosophical way...
Voldemort is phsycopath who wants immortality and wanna become the most powerful....he also fears death....while grindelwald was doing everything for his greater good and he could even die for that...he had better understanding than voldemort...for albus dumbeldore defeated him but wasn't able to defeat voldemort cause he didn't want to....he was just holding him....
Voldemort vs. Harry potter.....voldemort and his arrogance are dead...
Grindelwald vs. Harry potter....
Epic and difficult to tell
..whether it had be the boy who lived or the boy who died...
Voldermort was darker but grindelwald was wayyyy more dangerous...
He also understood emotions....I am not saying he was a good guy but atleast he was better than voldemort....
Like voldemort wanted to kill a baby and he didn't even think once...and grindelwald couldn't see the baby die...
Grindelwald is a leader....his followers....he calls them frnds...and they are real loyal to grindelwald...
Voldermort is a ruler....who doesn't care for his followers and his followers follow him out of fear not loyalty
@Akhil Jethwa yessss....I prefer them over movies...
Perhaps Voldemort's big mistake was creating the Horcruxes. He may have had more power BEFORE he started making them and the more Horcruxes he made, the more soul was sucked out of his spells. He expected them to make him invulnerable, but it seems they did the opposite. He was still the most dangerous because he was a total psychopath. But not invincible.
My money's on Grindelwald, as it has been stated many times that Dumbledore was the one wizard that Voldemort feared the most. Yet I never got the impression that Grindelwald feared Dumbledore, rather they both cared for and loved each other and wouldn't have wanted it tot reach the point of having to defeat each other. As they both shared the same goalat one point, they just happened to choose different and opposing paths in order to achieve that goal.
It seems to me that Voldy was more ruthless, but Grindelwald was more powerful.
judging by the spells thrown by the 2 voldemort seems definately more powerful and have more knowledge in dark magic. dumbledore however looks the most powerful with that crazy fire spell
Voldy wasn’t ruthless he was a coward. There is a difference. His greatest fear was death. And spat on love. Which is needed to help someone grow and mature.
Voldemort was a evil psychopath who avra kadavara everything to the ground he was more of a terrorist group, while Grindelwald inspired people to his side and envision a new world in a era the world has never seen before and was trying to save his people and could most likely do it with his legendary capabilities, elder wand and obscurous to achieve it
Grindelwald, Voldemort and Dumbledore all had the same goal. "Make magic accessable to everyone, no hiding" but all three of them had different opinions on how to achieve their goal. Harry was willing to give up magic entirely as seen by him breaking the elder wand and sacrificing his own life to the hawcrux... That is why he won in the end. The three legendary wizards mentioned, evil or not wanted to be wizards in a world full of people who appreciated it's splendor, Harry wanted to simply be a person. This is why I believe him to be the most powerful boy to ever live in the wizarding world. Not for his ability to use magic, but for his ability to see a life without magic and still feel fulfilled.
harry didn't break the elder wand
he buried it back with Dumbledore
Cut to the scenes where Harry is so inept that he resorts to punching instead of using his wand
Dumbledore wasn’t really trying to attack Voldemort during the duel though, he seemed to mainly be on the defense the whole time on purpose, for what I assume was to waste Voldemort’s time and for the aurors to arrive. Idk, Dumbledore seemed like he really wasn’t trying to attack at all. Could just be that he wasn’t in his prime anymore as well.
Most powerful wizard ever : dumbledore
Most deadliest: voldemort
Most potential : snape
Best battle strategist grindelwald?
Most powerful wizard is merlin
Actually, most potential goes to Harry, he just squandered like 60% of it during his school years.
@Lockjaw Harry never had potential?
So, that whole thing with the basilisk was nothing.
Learning the Patronus, a spell most adult wizards couldn't perform and at thirteen no less, then casting one that same year that drove off dozens of Dementors.
Everything he did in the tournament, and in the graveyard was nothing? Mind you, Voldemort used Harry's blood specifically to counter his mother's protection, and he beat Voldemort in a battle of wills after being hit with the Cruciatus twice before their duel even started, and this was after everything he went through in the maze.
WHAT ABOUT EKRIZDIS (Look him up, his image scared me)
Grindelwald was definitely more powerful because he managed his achievements and won his supporters using understanding instead of fear. That may make him seem weaker, but it makes him more unique.
That's just your preference of methods rather than who is stronger or not...
@@TheDeathmail Well in my opinion harry potter books only focus cople of spells while Grindelwald books are more unique. U can say Harry Potter books are also little childish till book 5
If you need manipulation and charm to get power it's because you are weak. You can only rule through fear if you are the strongest, so you literally prove with your own argument that Voldemort is more powerful than Grindelwald.
@@nuge_0275 FB is garbage who do not follow the canon.
@@headstrongbachelor3152 and that rule through fear led him to not trusting anyone. No leader can survive without trusting their subordinates. It's not as if Grindelwald couldnt have used fear. The entire world feared Grindelwald as the most powerful dark wizard of all time. But Grindelwald recognised that people who joined him out of personal loyalty, respect were much better as subordinates. Using ur unbridled power at every instance is not a sign of power. It's a sign that u r an attention seeking child demanding recognition. That's what voldemort came across as, all he did, all the power he attained, was to get Dumbledores recognition. His praise.
Think about it for a second.
Grindelwald's fight with Dumbledore was said to be a fight that NO OTHER wizard or witch could ever be matched. This is because, Grindelwald knew the limits of Dumbledore and Voldemort didn't which is why Dumbledore was the only wizard he feared. He knew that he couldn't push Dumbledore like how Grindlewald did. So if we think about it, yes Grindlewald is stronger than Voldemort cause if he used Dumbledore's weaknesses during their fight, he would've won, which would make HIM the most powerful wizard of all-time (having the Elder Wand as well) which would just make him overpowered. That's why J.K. had Voldemort the main villain and not Grindelwald. I think she knew that he would've been the toughest enemy in Harry Potter, that's why she put his last scene in Harry Potter 8 (Deathly Hallows Part 2) to make him good, and die in the honor of his old lover, Albus Dumbledore.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Grindlewald laughed in Voldemort's face, because he knew he could take him on in a fight. Nobody ever witnessed that if Grindlewald was in his prime as a wizard, he would've easily defeated prime Voldemort cause in his prime, he knew of light magic, love, and dark magic. He used all three to manipulate his followers.
Dude… maybe he laughed at him because he knows that in the end evil people won’t win.
Grindelwald is definitely powerful and smart but Voldemort is even more powerful and smart. The only weakness of Voldemort is that he doesn’t feel love and he overrates himself so isn’t even thinking about the possibility that someone else could have found the room of requirement.
And some people in the comments say “Voldemort has no skill he spamming the death curse all the time”
Yeah that’s because it’s the most op spell in a battle. It’s always 1 hit, it’s unblock able.
You cant compare Grindelwald and Dumbeldores fight with any fight Voldemort and Dumbeldore had because it happened so many years apart. I feel like Dumbeldore improved a lot over those years
You are of course wrong. There is no way Grindelwald could ever beat Voldemort. Voldemort have never lost a duel.
@@headstrongbachelor3152 dumbledore
@@kiaxxv Nope, he would have lost if Fawkes did not came between and blocked Voldemort's killing curse...
I believe Grindelwald is the most powerful wizard only because of the movie plot and when it was created.The advancements in moviemaking technology allowed them to create a more powerful character with more horrifying spells than what can be done in the past.
Yes … Because the 4 years between the last HP movie and first FB movie really made a huge difference 🤡 And the effects
-both CGI and practical-were better in the Harry Potter series … Movie technology has literally nothing to do with this.
@@GourSmith the spells look way worse in FB I agree
this doesn't even make sense considering the movies are based on books, the technology has nothing to do with it. You're just used to the idea of the 3 curses. You don't need to abuse those to be a villain. You can torture someone with incendio and be 1000x worse imo
I don't think so. If you look at HP fight scenes, duels with adult wizards look more in line with how FB duels look. That's because when kids fight, they're still inexperienced, and that's where you get like 90% of HP's fight scenes. Meanwhile, FB combatants are experienced adults and trained aurors
It goes 1. Dumbledore 2. Grindlewald. 3. Voldermort
Voldemort killed him so he was more powerful
Voldemort killed grindlewald
J.K said voldy was number 2 after dumbledore.
Yes
@@hassaanmalik6813 Grindelwald was killed by Voldemort wandless. Dumbledore decided to choose his own manner of dying. If there was a fight between young dumbledore and voldemort,he would win.
In my opinion, it varies:
Voldemort- His strongest ability was his agility, he was really quick at casting spells, and despite his primary use of the killing curse he actually had a deep knowledge of the dark arts, other than that he was one of the best legilimens ever,
Grindelwald- He was mainly a stratergist, he is also said to be a good enough seer, hence he maid plans on the basis of what he saw as a possible future. This combined with his excellent potioneering made him almost invincible
Dumbledore- His bigggest skill was an extensive knwledge of spells their applications,He also understood old magic better than anybody.Finally he had learned the importance of planning in his nrief period with gellert.
In my opinion all of them were wonderful at influencing people but due to grindelwald's stratergic approach he stood the most chance in th real world.
Voldemort's hobbie i.e. killing, on the other hand created fear aand uncertainity in the public this was highly effective in weakening tthe enemy berforehand.
Dumbledore was calm. This enraged both of the others also his persistence in defeating without harming made him an idol.
In a duel, I don't think voldy stood a chance against either of the two,since he tough excellent at destroying the weak stood no chance against the strong.
Dumbledore vs. Gellert
grindelwald clearly had stronger magic than dumbledore but as I can deduce he unlike tom was not very agile in using it.This gave the Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore an advantage since he was also an accomplished legillimens himself and hence ciuld use a spell that grindelwald wasn't ready for at all.
@RJ I would like to say...
You are right
My comment has several mistakes
But I am keeping it as it is cause it is my first (long) comment on HP
Grindelwald in my opinion is far stronger. Grindelwald has conviction, an actual goal and no fear of anyone when it comes to achieving that goal and thats.. a very dangerous thing.
Voldemort is weaker than grindelwald because of his fears. He fears death, which is why he made the horcrux's and he also fears the one who lived and prefers his underlings to do the work that he himself should do.
I dont really think the elder wand should be taken into account because... in all honesty we dont know how much it adds to the wielders power.
The books state that voldemort is the strongest so I mean to the Harry Potter world, voldemort is stronger.
@@thecensoredmuscle563 yet Voldemort was defeated by Potter (aged 17), when Grindelwald was defeated by equally-aged Dumbledore - of course there is more to see in fantastic beasts, but G-money will always beat nosey bones
@@thecensoredmuscle563 the books also states dumbledore was the strongest wizard and also state that Grindelwald is the strongest wizard. I think that’s just something they say. But what is true is that Voldemort really did fear dumbledore. Hence why he never attacked hogwarts when dumbledore was alive and why he always tried to avoid fighting dumbledore until he had to in the Order of the Phoenix.
@@chiefgitsu what are you talking about? voldemort is dead because of his own spell harry didn't kill him read the books
@@feanorm.s6217 i didn't say Harry killed Voldemort, just defeated by. read a dictionary
The final battle is already canon. Dumbledore has a brother and sister, the sister is in love with grindelwald or something, dumbledore and aberforth(?) show up to stop him, their sister is collateral damage, dumbledore disarms the elder wand. the specifics on what grindelwald was up to were never in the harry potter books though. they basically say at some point they had to step in to stop a catastrophe and don't specify what it was.
voldemort is an anger driven villlain with raw power and almost animalistic traits, grinelwald is a more complex genius with a heart of stone
Sick thumbnail, absolutely impressive.
Grindelwald wants to lead a revolution that includes all wizard kind, Voldemort wants to seize power and kill muggleborns. Grindelwald wants power for all wizards, Voldemort wants power for only a select few. Their campaigns were different and attracted different people for different reasons. I think Dumbledore is more powerful then both, but I’d put Gellert second, Tom third atm, especially after the three Fantastic Beasts films.
Exactly , Voldemort was a elitist terrorist group destroying everything to the ground and struck too much fear to actually have a real fight to win the world, while Grindelwald inspired people to his cause to fight for the greater good and revolutionize the world into a era the world has never seen before with Truth, freedom and love and he actually meant it , he was a visionary with great goals and with his legendary skills, elder wand and obscurous he could of done it
Dumbledore is more powerful then the one that beat him? Not even him, but his henchmen? I dont buy that dumbledore is stronger then Voldemort lol
I think people really underestimate Voldemort and he is very clearly an equal if not superior to Grindelwald in terms of power. I'll list of few strong points of evidence here:
1. Dumbledore himself said Voldemort was a more dangerous dark wizard than Grindelwald.
2. Voldemort had never actually been stopped by Dumbledore, even though he was actively trying to do so. In fact, Voldemort had never really been defeated fairly by another wizard or witch in a duel. Voldemort was only stopped the first time due to Lily's love magic, which was unexpected and not planned by Dumbledore at all. Harry also only managed to survive all those duels against him because their wands were twins and only defeated Voldemort because the wand he was using was loyal to Harry and not Voldemort. On the other hand with Grindelwald, Dumbledore was incapable of moving against him due to the blood pact, and even after it was shattered he was reluctant to move against him because of their history. Once Dumbledore finally decided to move on Grindelwald, he was able to successfully defeated and stop him fairly in a 1 on 1 duel.
3. Voldemort was actually successful in conquering the UK. While Grindelwald was waging war across all of Europe he never actually was successful in conquering the UK specifically.
Also keep in mind that Grindelwald lost to Dumbledore in a duel, despite being the Master of the Elder Wand, which should have been a fairly significant advantage for him. There's a good chance that when Voldemort went up against Dumbledore, Dumbledore was even more powerful as he was the Master of the Elder Wand.
Thank you. People bring up Harry as if Harry was some random wizard and not the chosen one.