I can personally say that after owning my FK8 for 2 years. The best I could get out was 30 MPG. I did the math and the additional cost of fun was worth it to me. However you are completely right about consumables. Tires and brakes are expensive. I don’t track my car but I’ve had to do rear brakes every 15-20k miles so far. Take that into consideration
I recently learned that Audi tends to rear bias their brakes more than other manufacturers, and this is to help compensate for the understeer they are quite well known for. It may be that the Honda engineers are doing the same thing.
And the number one thing I love about our si are THE SEATS!! They’re just so supportive and super comfortable at the same time! Love them. I’ll be interested to see how comfy the type r is.
After waiting several long months, I finally get to pick up my brand new '22 Civic Si on Sept 3. As an older driver (50+) and family man, I personally place a high premium on its daily drivability for commuting to work, as well as a fun but practical sedan for the family on weekends while getting groceries and such. Unlike many future purchasers of the Type R for its "boy racer" appeal, I would not be willing to sacrifice the Si's folding rear seat armrest, the sunroof, the ready fuel economy and other benefits that I think outweigh those of the Type R. For me, its like I can have my affordable, fun cake and eat it too. Like you, I've had the Bimmers, the Acuras (Acurem?), the Corvette and Miatas (when single), but as I now again approach owning a Civic Si (previous was a '13), I find my greatest happiness in having one car that fits all my wants/needs, without having to compromise. The Si won't have the Type R's power or handling...but I can suffice with just having the better-than-average performance of the stock Si, without the obnoxious rear wing. Just my .02 cents.
Honestly I wanted a type r but ended up in the SI and now that I have the si, im actually happier in it. It’s a nice middle ground between the normal civics and the type r
I've been watching you drive this Si for a bit now and it makes me want to get this car. Never driven manual yet, and you make it look so easy on this car. The more I watch the more I want the Si
I asked my wife what new we should get for a family car and she suggested a Civic. I was going to pitch to her the CTR, but as soon as I saw it only had two seats in the back, I knew it was going to be a no go.
I’m selling my FK8 right now. People keep asking me why. It’s because the FL5 exists. They’re only expecting about 2200 will be coming in to the US the first year of production. Good luck trying to get one! And if I snag one this year feel free to drive it. I may need to do the cannonball run again in the new Gen car to compare NYC to LA run times lol
i got a brand new civic si 2024 last week, already drove 1700km, i am in love with this car. For the price, the fuel economy and its very fun to drive daily. It looks great without looking like a batmobile. Its classy, sporty, reliable, cheap on gas and maintenance, its the perfect car for me
I work for honda. I'll tell you that the si will make you more money then the type r. Only because si will hold value and you wont pay as much mark up. I was lucky and got my si for sticker price.
I would miss the sunroof the most if I got a Type R. Really enjoy the slight open-air, or even just the additional light coming into the cabin and miss it whenever I'm in a car without the option.
Not to discount the improvements on the L15 engine in the 11th gen Si but they also had a HPD 10th gen as well. Lots of people tuned the crap out of that engine with stock internals (myself included) and it was easily able to break 300 whp while being relatively reliable as long as the low end torque is kept in check. I went the other way as you, trading up to a BMW M2C, but you’re totally right about the Si. It’s such a “cheap” and enjoyable machine and you can beat the crap out of it for relatively little maintenance cost.
@@RCXDerp oh definitely. The exedy clutch that comes stock is disappointing... Any kind of power increase is going to need a clutch. There was a type-r retrofit kit being sold that was able to keep the clutch pedal feeling stock. Tons of other clutch options out there but most of them feel very "aftermarket". Heavier pedal, chattering, etc.
@@jayee88 Yeah I might have to get the CTR clutch one day it'll probably cost me 3k. For now I'm just running an extra pound of boost, with rev hang turned off, and the turbo smoothing turned off so it comes on like an older car. Makes good noise with the PRL CAI. Probably will put a downpipe and short shifter on soon until I'm bored.
I'm driving a 2009 FN2, it has over 150k miles, still goes like crazy. Newer ones are even better, very reliable and yes you will probably get a bit less MPG on the Type-R, but the fun factor totally compensates for that In my opinion.
14:45 This is exactly what I was thinking all the time when I had my Subaru STI. I made the switch to an FK8 Type R not too long ago and felt relieved.
Drove the FK8 on a track last week and was very impressed, particularly with the chassis and gear shift. Instructor said chassis was a big improvement on previous gen, would imagine will be an improvement again in FL5. Sure you’ll sacrifice a bit of fuel economy but the performance gains will be well worth it!
I think the Type R is a stupid status symbol that screams "look at me, I want attention". It's supposed to be a practical high performance car to be driven and enjoyed, but it's something that ends up being you can't properly enjoy because of it's value and image. It's too hard to drive it 10/10s, legally anyway, so you never get to enjoy it's full potential. There's also nothing practical about a car with oversized wheels and under-sidewalled tires that you can't even safely drive on half the streets in the country it's sold in. I think the Si is more than enough car for anyone looking for smiles per gallon.
1) If you can comfortably afford a Type R you can probably afford a few track days a year to drive the car how it’s truly intended. 2) The new Type R has downsized wheels compared to last gen and if they are still to big for your preference you can always get aftermarket wheels and tires 3) I do agree with you that the Si is plenty fun for street and with a few mods a capable track car. Also your right about most Type R owners using their car as basically a showpiece.
All of the reasons you named are what led me to buying an Elantra N. My only gripe with it is the seat comfort being I’m a larger than average guy, but for the performance, value and ridiculously long warranty it has, it’s hard to beat. I really need to get myself to a track day at some point.
apples to oranges dude. can't really compare a comfortable sporty daily to something youre just gunna wanna speed and race in every time youre in it. unless you can track that type r often and that's your hobby, i wouldn't "upgrade", if it's a fun daily youre after.
Thanks for not knocking down the Si and calling it the "poor man's Porsche 911 GT3" I am humbled everyday by what Honda was able to cram into the 11th gen FE1 Civic Si and even better mine's the Canadian trim with all the good bits that make the car a complete weapon
Drove my friend's 2022 Civic on a racetrack. Surprisingly, it handles really well for a FWD with a pretty long wheelbase. Highly recommend as a daily, would trade my camry for it anytime
Would it be such a shame to have both? The Topher wants to keep his new Subaru BRZ along with a new Honda Civic Type R as a weekend fun performance car. Your Honda Civic Si would be the ultimate practical daily with your legendary 48+ mpg highway, with the FL5 Civic Type R being the ~30mpg fun car. No more BMW's for me lol
I had an FK8 for 2 years. Wanted a bigger SUV and traded for a Passport. Just got a 24 Si and I’m happy with it. I feel the similarities with this new gen. Of course I love the FL5, but the minimum $14,000 msrp, not including insane mark ups, the Si was the best choice for fun, but not killing my pay check. I agree with the mindset of more cost and worry owning a CTR. I never tracked my FK8. My tires at 6,000 miles were getting bald already and a wheel was slightly curbed, that I fixed. The CTR are special, but it comes with a premium bill to maintain it. There are pro’s and con’s to either one
I had a 2021 FK8 and the car never had overheating issues on track (even on Road America in the summer). I think the bigger grill opening for 2020+ Type R does help for track days. The bigger issue for me is fuel pick up because it cuts power once you are below half a tank on track. Your ownership review makes me want a 11th gen Si as a daily so bad! It just makes so much sense! Also on a side note, I drove my type r across the country and I tend to get 30mpg cruising at 80-85 and 32mpg cruising at 75-80 if that helps.
Living in the northern Midwest. The lack of heated seats or something. I noticed when seeing the FL-5 for the first time. I still want that car real bad but that creature comfort is super nice to have in my 10th gen Civic EX Hatchback.
The new 2025 facelift ( a RS or Type R bumper/front end) will be available in the fall. Stronger internal parts are needed to strengthen the weak engine. When 1.5L is pushed beyond 265 HP it might blow a rod, or head will pop. I would keep it OEM plus with a few bolt on upgrades, and wait for aftermarket companies to do more R&D on the 1.5L engine internal parts. Or dope a K20 Type R engine swap which will be expensive and not enough swaps have been proven to be easy so far.
Highest I managed on my fk8 was 31mpg. I’m expecting the fl5 to be the same. Consumables are okay money wise for it too. I “upgraded” tires to PS4S as they were just as sticky but lasted longer than the stock conti’s, which needed replacement at 15k miles. Rear brakes needed replacement at 27k as the torque vectoring cooks em. Fronts were about to go out before I sold the car. Other than that I just performed oil changes every 5k miles. Edit: wanted to also mention that the transmission crunch was a nuisance for sure. Would happen all the time when shifting fast. I never did any of the upgrades recommended on the forums and countless videos though. I do remember hearing that the new tranny is upgraded in the fl5. So we’ll see. I’m waiting to see what the prices for the FL5 and the GRC are to see what I get by.
The crunch occured due to the rev hang at higher rpms. Rev hang causes the syncro to do a lot more work and basically kills syncros over time. A simple tune to eliminate rev hang would have solved your problem.
That color is really growing on me. I’ll buy your civic when you want to trade up! I totally appreciate what you mean about not being afraid to drive the car at 9/10ths. I think this is why I don’t enjoy my S2000 as much as I thought i would. It’s too hairy and scary past 7/10ths
I think the SI is a great car overall! The new Type R looks like is going to be an enjoyable track car! It is a tough choice comparing the comfort and the gas saving of the SI to the performance and how much fun you would have with the Type R.
I really want the type R but we know the markups are gona be crazy might wait it out til next year. The fuel economy of the si is really impressive. I’m so pumped for the type r !!! The white on red is 🔥
I really hope they hide the radio unit into the dashboard, it looks like someone just put a cheap tablet on the dashboard (Like the older 2007 Audi platforms). Or a unit that retrieves itself if not used or needed.
30-34MPG is the cost of doing business in the FK8. Why would anyone try to drive "sensibly" in it??? My Si drives like a dog when I'm babying it, it's happiest when you open it up. You want it to play the Type R game, you want to have fun, pay for the gas and the tires and brakes. Enjoy it and go to your grave with no regrets. I should be so lucky to find a Type R for a decent price
I bought a 2017 si as my first car about a month ago. I was looking it up for reviews and also how to drive a manual and found your channel. I would hate to see you get rid of yours but also it would be cool to see you get a type R.
Love my 22 si , with Hondata at 2900 lbs it’s an absolute blast sure I would love to have the new type r I just don’t know if I can justify another 10k to get worse gas mileage and the constant worry of getting something dirty on the inside , will have a dealer run the numbers nonetheless 🤣
@@TedwardDrives As long as you can afford it. Its just plain out of reach for most of us human beings. Barely able to afford my 22 Si after trading in my 2012 Si.
I have the 2022 Honda civic SI and after putting a ktuner on it stage 1 tsp that took all of 10 minutes it wakes the car up…dyno 241whp/286tq at a cost of $500. I highly recommend that I have had zero issues. That said the type R is Something I would desire for sure, but the market adjustment rates I’ve heard anywhere from $10,000-$20,000+ That puts the type R at $50-$60,000+ that’s a tough pill to swallow….
I've had my FK8 for about a year and a half now and aside from my mods and my 4 oil changes (20K miles, done every 5K or so) and changing the rear brakes out of necessity and front brakes from desire to upgrade, it's been fantastic. It's insanely capable on street and track, I've done roll racing (in Mexico) and autocross, flogged it HARD down some backroads, and I daily drive it. It's a superb vehicle, the perfect mix of space, handling, power, straight line speed... The Si is a great little package for enthusiast daily driving and can absolutely handle its own when chucked around, but the Type R just turns everything up a notch or two. You can't go wrong with either. If you're a "slow car fast" kind of person like I normally am, the Si is an amazing offering. But even so, the Type R does most everything a little bit better and does downright performance A LOT better. Also to add, if I stay out of the throttle and keep it on cruise with the windows shut and A/C on, even FBO and tuned I get about 30mpg highway. City? More like 20-22. It's not frugal, but for what it can do I don't give a shit.
If my commute had less traffic I'd grab a type r (if it wasn't marked up), instead of my si. It's kinda nice to hit redline and not be flying, especially with a prl cai for turbo noises.
In the wise words of Sir James May, "You can train a dog as an attack dog. That's fantastic if you own a scrapyard and you need a dog to guard it. But if you take it home and expect it to be a pet, it will eat your children. It's completely useless. That's what happens when you set a car up for the Nürburgring." I wholeheartedly agree with that, and henceforth have been instantly turned off by any vehicle claiming to be developed on the Nürburgring. Harsh ride is not something you can live with as a daily driver. At least, if you're a civilized person or have back issues. If your car is a monster on the track, it's inherently barbaric on public roads. You cannot have both.
Good comment. Through university, I would drive an 1997 integra and loved it. I graduated in 2019, bought a house, and upgraded to a 2017 Honda Ridgeline truck. I really wanted to get a type r but when you buy a house, you def need a truck (lots of renovations, projects, etc). I'm still thinking of one day getting the type r but if I'm not really going to track it, is it worth it? Watching his Civic SI videos makes consider buying one too and simply let go of the type r dream.
That's bs though because the Ring is one of the bumpiest tracks.. that's why it's used as a testing ground. Bc having an overly stiff setup will cars just bounce around on the Ring
@@jcbrena in your situation I would buy a project car like a used civic hatch and swap in a K20 or K24 and call it a day. Where you decide to take it from there is up to you. I myself am torn between the SI and the Type R. One being harder to get than the other, but where I’m at in life and with my schedule, the SI makes more sense. Would I love to get a Type R? Who wouldn’t? The irony is that for a track/weekend car, I wouldn’t even get it. I’d get an EG/EK and swap in a K with some modest Bolt-ons and call it a day.
@@papa_pt Track cars are stiff. Increasingly so as you work your way up the line. There's always additional reinforcements made to make the chassis as rigid as possible. Any flex or give is considered bad, which is the exact opposite of say something like a luxury vehicle for example. For a luxury vehicle, you'd want everything to be as soft as possible, while still only inducing a negligible amount of bodyroll. For a daily driver (depending on your taste), you'd probably want an in-between. Ideally your car would be stiff and responsive enough to comply with your demands, but also soft enough to not kill ride quality. Soft cars don't track well, and to say the Nürburgring gives cars a softer ride is plainly false. Manufacturers are worried about setting record laptimes, not comfort.
@@jcbrena Might have to agree with the above comment. If you have the time and patience, a K-Swap into an older chassis is more cost effective. You get to build the car to your own specifications that way also, which is precisely why I'm doing it to my '03 Civic Coupe. It's widely documented for these cars, and not as intimidating as you'd think. If you have the right tools, at least. A few experienced guys could do it in a day with a lift, maybe a few days in a driveway.
Yeah I could never get any dealer near me to get anywhere close to sticker on a 10th gen type R. I wanted an Si anyway but there was no temptation to upgrade.
What are your thoughts on maybe waiting for the integra type s?? It sounds like you want the performance of the type r with the drivability or the Si. I think the integra type s will have the 2.0 turbo engine from like tlx and make 270-300hp. That should give you the performance you want with all the luxuries and amenities you discussed as well. That’s kinda the route I’m thinking….I have a 2.0 accord sport. I like the new civic Si, but I couldn’t trade my accord sport 2.0 for a slower car. So I think the integra type s will be the best of both worlds…IMO
I think it's more than worth it if you can get the CTR at MSRP. The CTR will for sure keep its value if not further appreciate while the Si will eventually drop back down to earth. Definitely any buyer should be getting a road hazard warranty or be prepared to shell out a few bucks for those tires/wheels though. Getting one at MSRP will be impossible though unless you have a connection with a dealer or Honda directly.
everytime i watch one of these i go man i should trade in my 10th gen for an 11th then i remember i live in the north east close to a mountain and do not want to lose my heated seats or fog lights on my daily
Envy. By me the dealers don't have any form of civic available even to test sit in for fit. They are sold out for months. One did have a new HR-V that was already sold but I got to sit in it. With the sun roof my head was brushing the ceiling...
I can feel your excitement to jump in the FL5 once it's on the street. Same here man!! I know that it will not be easy to buy one once it is released!! But can you just tell me your recommendations to book one from any dealer here in Massachusetts?
You should have no issues at all running 18s with Type R brakes. They are not that huge, neither the previous one were. It will take a bit of the edge of the handling but as you said it will handle the roads much better.
I simply DON’T UNDERSTAND why anyone would buy the type R… the price for a USED one is $38k if not over $40k, which puts it into a class that is overshadowed by faster, RWD sports cars. I would buy the SI, but never the Type R because at that price point there are manyyyyyy significantly better vehicles to purchase.
I have a 2018 type r with 40k miles and already pad slapped it once on all 4 corners- no track days - did it myself with the best stuff autozone had and it was relatively cheap and feels just as good as oem for street driving - I got 18’s with Perelli sotozero snow tires for the colder months and I rock the 20’s during the warmer months - I have hit some potholes and in them and cringe but there has never had a bend or crack maybe I’m just lucky - moonroof I don’t even think about lol and compared to my friends 10th gen si with the HFP package - the type R is hands down worth the upgrade over it - best mpg I can get really trying is 33-35 max - regular driving is around 29 mpg for me - I find comfort mode which I actually use a lot a very nice ride and not harsh at all - I did apply ppf and am scared to park it places :( it does draw a lot of attention everywhere - sometimes I like it sometimes I wanna be left alone lol - the red color does not help that situation - good luck with your decision.
If it’s possible both cars sound awesome and each one has its purpose cause 1 car that does it all it’s kinda hard to find when it has to go to the grocery store with bad parking people and also not having to do extra wear on pads and everything else
I love the hatch body style like a humpback SAAB 900; from the Si, trade down to a 'sport' or trade up to an R ? Or compromise with an Integra. Did you go the whole video without mentioning the new Integra?
Had a 2018 GTI, just traded it in for a 2020 civic si. Overall I like the Si better but the GTI was faster but I’m not here racing people. I just wanted a fun daily driver.
@@xWhiteOpZx I’ve been a V-dub nut since my 2009 Rabbit. A 7GTI and 7R later (both were Stage 2), I miss them! But I LOVE the interior of the Si. Haven’t driven one yet coz they’re few and far between in Greater Vancouver, but I also can’t wait for a nicer shifter, to not know what wheel hop is and to not worry about crank walk.
Sad reality of where I live is that unless I'm traveling far, or downhill, my average milage never exceeds like 22 mpg. Western PA is very cruel to cars and their milage, steep hills, totally unmaintained roads, drivers with iqs that match their age, to top it off I live in a valley which means everywhere I go I'll be going uphill to get there. I can't afford a real nice performance/fun vehicle, but if I could I would take it, cause even with my current car in my environment consumables and milage are vicious expenses anyways.
See I love the new 11thGen Si too that’s why I test drove it twice now but with that said I’m working on Getting one Sooner than later. What you think 🤔 about the Si with the TypeR 306/295 torque seems like a no brainer to me. That’s why I wish the TypeR pump’d Out at least 350-380/320 torque, that’s right inline with it’s Rivals
Yeah... I can't deal with the bouncy ass suspension so I'd probably stick with the Si. Part of the reason I love my Prelude is the plush ride. Maybe if it was a second car.
@@TedwardDrives S2000, favorite car i’ve ever owned / driven. Super fun and good looking car. But their values have nearly tripled since I bought mine, and that suckssss
I drive an FK8 as a daily and you can expect to achieve somewhere between 23 to 30mpg, not more from the K20C1! Btw the MY2020/21 does not overheat like the pre-restyle models, that problem is kinda already solved.
If you aren’t overheating you aren’t going fast enough. Regardless of the year a grill and a updated radiator really don’t solve anything other than prolong the inevitable.
@@eddiesegal5541 my friend said the exact same thing. He's in the process of doing major upgrades to the cooling system(s) in his. He couldn't even do 3-4 laps at road Atlanta last spring without it wanting to overheat
Have the same 22 Si HPD you do but nonetheless have had 5 down at my local dealership these past 2 months for first dibs on one of the 23 Type R's when they arrive...who knows when-- aar my dealership regularly gets 2. That said I love driving the Si and have agonized wondering whether or not this is a good decision! Good or not I know exactly what I'm going to do, however, as I assume you do too
It sounds like you still love a lot about the Si. Can you really explore the Type R limits on the road, or would you be wishing for the easy, low maintenance Si? Why not drive that hot 911 a bit more?
Let's be real you're gonna trade it and get the type r. I'm in the same boat and I keep telling myself to keep the si but I know in my heart I'll end up trading in just like you will lol
Civic Type R (CTR) is going to be a same but different car. You might be easily get bored because it is still a Honda. For the same price, I would choose some other cars like Golf R manual or something.
Its a MOONROOF .....glass panel Sunroof has metal panel you cant see through A moonroof is in the worst place for center of gravity which is why its gone on the Type R which is performance focused The R is a money pit that will light money on fire depending on how hard you push it. My R has 620hp and is a blast to push daily - bring money
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I can personally say that after owning my FK8 for 2 years. The best I could get out was 30 MPG. I did the math and the additional cost of fun was worth it to me. However you are completely right about consumables. Tires and brakes are expensive. I don’t track my car but I’ve had to do rear brakes every 15-20k miles so far. Take that into consideration
Now THIS is a comment. Thank you for the real world data
Rear brakes every 15-20k miles without tracking on a FWD platform. Yikes.
Wow rear brakes every 15k-20K miles, was this normal wear?
I recently learned that Audi tends to rear bias their brakes more than other manufacturers, and this is to help compensate for the understeer they are quite well known for. It may be that the Honda engineers are doing the same thing.
Feature called 'Agile Handling Assist'. Uses rear brakes to improve cornering. Acura uses it as wel.
Love the work Tedward. Your videos are a life saver and just calm me down when I get anxious 😃
It’s wild that I have a calming affect on anyone! Tell my family 😆
same!!
@@TedwardDrives yea man your videos are awesome but u have an ADD vibe fr
@@nicholaswilliams6697 I'm gonna go with "Thank You"..... yeah.
And the number one thing I love about our si are THE SEATS!! They’re just so supportive and super comfortable at the same time! Love them. I’ll be interested to see how comfy the type r is.
I really enjoy these videos with the Si. It’s an excellent car that many enthusiasts can relate to!!
After waiting several long months, I finally get to pick up my brand new '22 Civic Si on Sept 3. As an older driver (50+) and family man, I personally place a high premium on its daily drivability for commuting to work, as well as a fun but practical sedan for the family on weekends while getting groceries and such. Unlike many future purchasers of the Type R for its "boy racer" appeal, I would not be willing to sacrifice the Si's folding rear seat armrest, the sunroof, the ready fuel economy and other benefits that I think outweigh those of the Type R. For me, its like I can have my affordable, fun cake and eat it too. Like you, I've had the Bimmers, the Acuras (Acurem?), the Corvette and Miatas (when single), but as I now again approach owning a Civic Si (previous was a '13), I find my greatest happiness in having one car that fits all my wants/needs, without having to compromise. The Si won't have the Type R's power or handling...but I can suffice with just having the better-than-average performance of the stock Si, without the obnoxious rear wing. Just my .02 cents.
Honestly I wanted a type r but ended up in the SI and now that I have the si, im actually happier in it. It’s a nice middle ground between the normal civics and the type r
same
I've been watching you drive this Si for a bit now and it makes me want to get this car. Never driven manual yet, and you make it look so easy on this car. The more I watch the more I want the Si
I asked my wife what new we should get for a family car and she suggested a Civic. I was going to pitch to her the CTR, but as soon as I saw it only had two seats in the back, I knew it was going to be a no go.
Why doesn't Honda eliminate dealers and start selling online like Tesla or something?
It will stop the price markup crap
I’m selling my FK8 right now. People keep asking me why. It’s because the FL5 exists. They’re only expecting about 2200 will be coming in to the US the first year of production. Good luck trying to get one! And if I snag one this year feel free to drive it. I may need to do the cannonball run again in the new Gen car to compare NYC to LA run times lol
😮💨 if I can find one ima trade in my 22’ accord 2.0t. Doubt I’ll be able to snag one in the first year of production tho
i was thinking of doing the same
i got a brand new civic si 2024 last week, already drove 1700km, i am in love with this car. For the price, the fuel economy and its very fun to drive daily. It looks great without looking like a batmobile. Its classy, sporty, reliable, cheap on gas and maintenance, its the perfect car for me
I work for honda. I'll tell you that the si will make you more money then the type r. Only because si will hold value and you wont pay as much mark up. I was lucky and got my si for sticker price.
why do the type R's lose value? seems counterintuitive
I finally pulled the trigger on a new 24 SI and I'm so happy with it. 6th gear feels nice on the freeway at 70 and in triple digits
I would miss the sunroof the most if I got a Type R. Really enjoy the slight open-air, or even just the additional light coming into the cabin and miss it whenever I'm in a car without the option.
I’m a Honda guy but I’m way more excited about the GR Corolla than the new type R.
Good luck getting one
@@a_single_white_female I work for a dealer with a Toyota store. I can get one at msrp
@@Camj27 Lucky you.
Not to discount the improvements on the L15 engine in the 11th gen Si but they also had a HPD 10th gen as well. Lots of people tuned the crap out of that engine with stock internals (myself included) and it was easily able to break 300 whp while being relatively reliable as long as the low end torque is kept in check.
I went the other way as you, trading up to a BMW M2C, but you’re totally right about the Si. It’s such a “cheap” and enjoyable machine and you can beat the crap out of it for relatively little maintenance cost.
You can't get 300 whp without needing a clutch unless you do some wacky tune. The stock clutch is only rated to 250 lb ft.
@@RCXDerp oh definitely. The exedy clutch that comes stock is disappointing... Any kind of power increase is going to need a clutch. There was a type-r retrofit kit being sold that was able to keep the clutch pedal feeling stock. Tons of other clutch options out there but most of them feel very "aftermarket". Heavier pedal, chattering, etc.
@@jayee88 Yeah I might have to get the CTR clutch one day it'll probably cost me 3k. For now I'm just running an extra pound of boost, with rev hang turned off, and the turbo smoothing turned off so it comes on like an older car. Makes good noise with the PRL CAI. Probably will put a downpipe and short shifter on soon until I'm bored.
Hey Tom, when is the next podcast? Keep up with the good work
Recording on Thursday. It has taken a backseat to some of the money making content but it’s coming back!
I'm driving a 2009 FN2, it has over 150k miles, still goes like crazy. Newer ones are even better, very reliable and yes you will probably get a bit less MPG on the Type-R, but the fun factor totally compensates for that In my opinion.
14:45 This is exactly what I was thinking all the time when I had my Subaru STI. I made the switch to an FK8 Type R not too long ago and felt relieved.
Drove the FK8 on a track last week and was very impressed, particularly with the chassis and gear shift. Instructor said chassis was a big improvement on previous gen, would imagine will be an improvement again in FL5. Sure you’ll sacrifice a bit of fuel economy but the performance gains will be well worth it!
0:01 awh, the SI's crying
I think the Type R is a stupid status symbol that screams "look at me, I want attention". It's supposed to be a practical high performance car to be driven and enjoyed, but it's something that ends up being you can't properly enjoy because of it's value and image. It's too hard to drive it 10/10s, legally anyway, so you never get to enjoy it's full potential. There's also nothing practical about a car with oversized wheels and under-sidewalled tires that you can't even safely drive on half the streets in the country it's sold in. I think the Si is more than enough car for anyone looking for smiles per gallon.
1) If you can comfortably afford a Type R you can probably afford a few track days a year to drive the car how it’s truly intended.
2) The new Type R has downsized wheels compared to last gen and if they are still to big for your preference you can always get aftermarket wheels and tires
3) I do agree with you that the Si is plenty fun for street and with a few mods a capable track car. Also your right about most Type R owners using their car as basically a showpiece.
The same thing can be said for any performance based car these days.
All of the reasons you named are what led me to buying an Elantra N. My only gripe with it is the seat comfort being I’m a larger than average guy, but for the performance, value and ridiculously long warranty it has, it’s hard to beat. I really need to get myself to a track day at some point.
apples to oranges dude. can't really compare a comfortable sporty daily to something youre just gunna wanna speed and race in every time youre in it.
unless you can track that type r often and that's your hobby, i wouldn't "upgrade", if it's a fun daily youre after.
Hey you passed my corvette @15:55
I’m glad I caught it!!
Love your videos btw,keep up the good work.
Thanks for not knocking down the Si and calling it the "poor man's Porsche 911 GT3"
I am humbled everyday by what Honda was able to cram into the 11th gen FE1 Civic Si and even better mine's the Canadian trim with all the good bits that make the car a complete weapon
Drove my friend's 2022 Civic on a racetrack. Surprisingly, it handles really well for a FWD with a pretty long wheelbase. Highly recommend as a daily, would trade my camry for it anytime
Would it be such a shame to have both?
The Topher wants to keep his new Subaru BRZ along with a new Honda Civic Type R as a weekend fun performance car.
Your Honda Civic Si would be the ultimate practical daily with your legendary 48+ mpg highway, with the FL5 Civic Type R being the ~30mpg fun car. No more BMW's for me lol
Well, I built a Si sit, I love this sit when a see to first time
My credit was bad so they wanted 10grand up front for type R. Did the Si and modified it alot and love the car.
That’s somewhat normal. Down payments for a financed car should aim to be at least 20 percent of the out the door price.
I understand the advice at the end, just 2 days ago 2 thieves were breaking in ppl's car including mine, broke my windows and all that.
I had an FK8 for 2 years. Wanted a bigger SUV and traded for a Passport. Just got a 24 Si and I’m happy with it. I feel the similarities with this new gen. Of course I love the FL5, but the minimum $14,000 msrp, not including insane mark ups, the Si was the best choice for fun, but not killing my pay check.
I agree with the mindset of more cost and worry owning a CTR. I never tracked my FK8. My tires at 6,000 miles were getting bald already and a wheel was slightly curbed, that I fixed.
The CTR are special, but it comes with a premium bill to maintain it. There are pro’s and con’s to either one
If you have an SI right now you can drive it for a long time while waiting on a type R at msrp.
I had a 2021 FK8 and the car never had overheating issues on track (even on Road America in the summer). I think the bigger grill opening for 2020+ Type R does help for track days. The bigger issue for me is fuel pick up because it cuts power once you are below half a tank on track. Your ownership review makes me want a 11th gen Si as a daily so bad! It just makes so much sense! Also on a side note, I drove my type r across the country and I tend to get 30mpg cruising at 80-85 and 32mpg cruising at 75-80 if that helps.
Honda just announced they are cutting production in japan factory by additional 40%. Its going to take a miracle for most people to get a type-r.
Living in the northern Midwest. The lack of heated seats or something. I noticed when seeing the FL-5 for the first time. I still want that car real bad but that creature comfort is super nice to have in my 10th gen Civic EX Hatchback.
The new 2025 facelift ( a RS or Type R bumper/front end) will be available in the fall. Stronger internal parts are needed to strengthen the weak engine. When 1.5L is pushed beyond 265 HP it might blow a rod, or head will pop. I would keep it OEM plus with a few bolt on upgrades, and wait for aftermarket companies to do more R&D on the 1.5L engine internal parts. Or dope a K20 Type R engine swap which will be expensive and not enough swaps have been proven to be easy so far.
Highest I managed on my fk8 was 31mpg. I’m expecting the fl5 to be the same. Consumables are okay money wise for it too. I “upgraded” tires to PS4S as they were just as sticky but lasted longer than the stock conti’s, which needed replacement at 15k miles. Rear brakes needed replacement at 27k as the torque vectoring cooks em. Fronts were about to go out before I sold the car. Other than that I just performed oil changes every 5k miles.
Edit: wanted to also mention that the transmission crunch was a nuisance for sure. Would happen all the time when shifting fast. I never did any of the upgrades recommended on the forums and countless videos though. I do remember hearing that the new tranny is upgraded in the fl5. So we’ll see.
I’m waiting to see what the prices for the FL5 and the GRC are to see what I get by.
The crunch occured due to the rev hang at higher rpms.
Rev hang causes the syncro to do a lot more work and basically kills syncros over time.
A simple tune to eliminate rev hang would have solved your problem.
I look forward to hear how the Si performs in the Wet/Snow.... Winter is coming... :)
Type R you can’t drive it to road trip… you either get it stolen or crack the thin sidewall wheel.
Si is more than enough for daily driver.
@cameron Hill has done a few road trips in his type r. Different wheels but never stolen
Are Type Rs getting stolen frequently?
How can one protect it? With a wheel lock?
@@Sh0SUPERMAN don't park somewhere where you could flat bed it
Keep that lovely Si
Love your content, Saludos desde México
That color is really growing on me. I’ll buy your civic when you want to trade up! I totally appreciate what you mean about not being afraid to drive the car at 9/10ths. I think this is why I don’t enjoy my S2000 as much as I thought i would. It’s too hairy and scary past 7/10ths
I think the SI is a great car overall! The new Type R looks like is going to be an enjoyable track car! It is a tough choice comparing the comfort and the gas saving of the SI to the performance and how much fun you would have with the Type R.
I really want the type R but we know the markups are gona be crazy might wait it out til next year. The fuel economy of the si is really impressive. I’m so pumped for the type r !!! The white on red is 🔥
TOM! Thanks for the shoutout!!!!!! Can’t wait to be CTR buddies 💜
I really hope they hide the radio unit into the dashboard, it looks like someone just put a cheap tablet on the dashboard (Like the older 2007 Audi platforms). Or a unit that retrieves itself if not used or needed.
Hey if you need any Honda that isn’t marked up, look up Valley Honda in Aurora,IL. We don’t charge over MSRP!
30-34MPG is the cost of doing business in the FK8. Why would anyone try to drive "sensibly" in it??? My Si drives like a dog when I'm babying it, it's happiest when you open it up. You want it to play the Type R game, you want to have fun, pay for the gas and the tires and brakes. Enjoy it and go to your grave with no regrets. I should be so lucky to find a Type R for a decent price
Another great video!
My parents should get an SI manual transmission. Their 1997 Accord (manual) got totaled last year when someone hit it.
I bought a 2017 si as my first car about a month ago. I was looking it up for reviews and also how to drive a manual and found your channel. I would hate to see you get rid of yours but also it would be cool to see you get a type R.
Love my 22 si , with Hondata at 2900 lbs it’s an absolute blast sure I would love to have the new type r I just don’t know if I can justify another 10k to get worse gas mileage and the constant worry of getting something dirty on the inside , will have a dealer run the numbers nonetheless 🤣
I hear you! But I think it's going to be a really fun car to drive and share with everyone who watches the channel so it should be worth it
@@TedwardDrives As long as you can afford it. Its just plain out of reach for most of us human beings. Barely able to afford my 22 Si after trading in my 2012 Si.
Never thought I'd see you trading in and out of cars so quickly, but when the opportunity to own a TypeR comes along, I know I wouldn't say no either
great video, as always
If the Type R ever comes to Mexico, I will be getting one (currently driving a Suzuki Swift Sport, fun little car not sold in USA)
I have the 2022 Honda civic SI and after putting a ktuner on it stage 1 tsp that took all of 10 minutes it wakes the car up…dyno 241whp/286tq at a cost of $500. I highly recommend that I have had zero issues. That said the type R is Something I would desire for sure, but the market adjustment rates I’ve heard anywhere from $10,000-$20,000+ That puts the type R at $50-$60,000+ that’s a tough pill to swallow….
I don't watch a ton of your videos, but when I do I wonder why I don't more often
I’ll take it
@@TedwardDrives sorry if that sounds like I'm saying you make bad or boring content, because it's great to watch 😆
I've had my FK8 for about a year and a half now and aside from my mods and my 4 oil changes (20K miles, done every 5K or so) and changing the rear brakes out of necessity and front brakes from desire to upgrade, it's been fantastic. It's insanely capable on street and track, I've done roll racing (in Mexico) and autocross, flogged it HARD down some backroads, and I daily drive it. It's a superb vehicle, the perfect mix of space, handling, power, straight line speed... The Si is a great little package for enthusiast daily driving and can absolutely handle its own when chucked around, but the Type R just turns everything up a notch or two. You can't go wrong with either. If you're a "slow car fast" kind of person like I normally am, the Si is an amazing offering. But even so, the Type R does most everything a little bit better and does downright performance A LOT better.
Also to add, if I stay out of the throttle and keep it on cruise with the windows shut and A/C on, even FBO and tuned I get about 30mpg highway. City? More like 20-22. It's not frugal, but for what it can do I don't give a shit.
If my commute had less traffic I'd grab a type r (if it wasn't marked up), instead of my si. It's kinda nice to hit redline and not be flying, especially with a prl cai for turbo noises.
Make it happen.
Get both. Keep both. Keep your Si as the daily driver and get the Type R as your fun toy.
In the wise words of Sir James May, "You can train a dog as an attack dog. That's fantastic if you own a scrapyard and you need a dog to guard it. But if you take it home and expect it to be a pet, it will eat your children. It's completely useless. That's what happens when you set a car up for the Nürburgring." I wholeheartedly agree with that, and henceforth have been instantly turned off by any vehicle claiming to be developed on the Nürburgring. Harsh ride is not something you can live with as a daily driver. At least, if you're a civilized person or have back issues. If your car is a monster on the track, it's inherently barbaric on public roads. You cannot have both.
Good comment. Through university, I would drive an 1997 integra and loved it. I graduated in 2019, bought a house, and upgraded to a 2017 Honda Ridgeline truck. I really wanted to get a type r but when you buy a house, you def need a truck (lots of renovations, projects, etc). I'm still thinking of one day getting the type r but if I'm not really going to track it, is it worth it? Watching his Civic SI videos makes consider buying one too and simply let go of the type r dream.
That's bs though because the Ring is one of the bumpiest tracks.. that's why it's used as a testing ground. Bc having an overly stiff setup will cars just bounce around on the Ring
@@jcbrena in your situation I would buy a project car like a used civic hatch and swap in a K20 or K24 and call it a day. Where you decide to take it from there is up to you. I myself am torn between the SI and the Type R. One being harder to get than the other, but where I’m at in life and with my schedule, the SI makes more sense. Would I love to get a Type R? Who wouldn’t? The irony is that for a track/weekend car, I wouldn’t even get it. I’d get an EG/EK and swap in a K with some modest Bolt-ons and call it a day.
@@papa_pt Track cars are stiff. Increasingly so as you work your way up the line. There's always additional reinforcements made to make the chassis as rigid as possible. Any flex or give is considered bad, which is the exact opposite of say something like a luxury vehicle for example. For a luxury vehicle, you'd want everything to be as soft as possible, while still only inducing a negligible amount of bodyroll. For a daily driver (depending on your taste), you'd probably want an in-between. Ideally your car would be stiff and responsive enough to comply with your demands, but also soft enough to not kill ride quality. Soft cars don't track well, and to say the Nürburgring gives cars a softer ride is plainly false. Manufacturers are worried about setting record laptimes, not comfort.
@@jcbrena Might have to agree with the above comment. If you have the time and patience, a K-Swap into an older chassis is more cost effective. You get to build the car to your own specifications that way also, which is precisely why I'm doing it to my '03 Civic Coupe. It's widely documented for these cars, and not as intimidating as you'd think. If you have the right tools, at least. A few experienced guys could do it in a day with a lift, maybe a few days in a driveway.
Yes! Please take us along the journey of buying a type r if you decide to go that route. If not, we'll still be here enjoying Si content as always!
Yeah I could never get any dealer near me to get anywhere close to sticker on a 10th gen type R. I wanted an Si anyway but there was no temptation to upgrade.
It’s either the Type R or GR Corolla hatchback if I trade my in
What are your thoughts on maybe waiting for the integra type s?? It sounds like you want the performance of the type r with the drivability or the Si. I think the integra type s will have the 2.0 turbo engine from like tlx and make 270-300hp. That should give you the performance you want with all the luxuries and amenities you discussed as well. That’s kinda the route I’m thinking….I have a 2.0 accord sport. I like the new civic Si, but I couldn’t trade my accord sport 2.0 for a slower car. So I think the integra type s will be the best of both worlds…IMO
I think it's more than worth it if you can get the CTR at MSRP. The CTR will for sure keep its value if not further appreciate while the Si will eventually drop back down to earth.
Definitely any buyer should be getting a road hazard warranty or be prepared to shell out a few bucks for those tires/wheels though.
Getting one at MSRP will be impossible though unless you have a connection with a dealer or Honda directly.
I think with some simple mods, BBK and some better grippy tires, the Si would make a fine (occasional) track toy.
Hope it's comfortable for long drives. I drove my '17 SI to 150k miles. My back always hurt after long journeys. Kentucky to Washington 😂.
It will forsure aid for content but I love the si
you are right.. SI is a good middle way.. I would love to see it in Europe.
everytime i watch one of these i go man i should trade in my 10th gen for an 11th then i remember i live in the north east close to a mountain and do not want to lose my heated seats or fog lights on my daily
I want to learn to drive
Just wing it
My family doesnt trust me to drive a car
@@senuauwu take a driving course or get a friend to teach you.
@@senuauwu do a little GTA
Aye we are neighbors I’m from CT haha, but nice vid man i stuck with my 2009 si and have a 2019 accord sport 2.0 6sp she boogies!!!
Envy. By me the dealers don't have any form of civic available even to test sit in for fit. They are sold out for months. One did have a new HR-V that was already sold but I got to sit in it. With the sun roof my head was brushing the ceiling...
I can feel your excitement to jump in the FL5 once it's on the street. Same here man!! I know that it will not be easy to buy one once it is released!! But can you just tell me your recommendations to book one from any dealer here in Massachusetts?
You should have no issues at all running 18s with Type R brakes. They are not that huge, neither the previous one were. It will take a bit of the edge of the handling but as you said it will handle the roads much better.
Yup I’ll be running 18s for winter and track wheels
I simply DON’T UNDERSTAND why anyone would buy the type R… the price for a USED one is $38k if not over $40k, which puts it into a class that is overshadowed by faster, RWD sports cars. I would buy the SI, but never the Type R because at that price point there are manyyyyyy significantly better vehicles to purchase.
I really want a 23 CTR but I may just go with an Integra and wait
Rear Subaru center armrest with cup holders
I have a 2018 type r with 40k miles and already pad slapped it once on all 4 corners- no track days - did it myself with the best stuff autozone had and it was relatively cheap and feels just as good as oem for street driving - I got 18’s with Perelli sotozero snow tires for the colder months and I rock the 20’s during the warmer months - I have hit some potholes and in them and cringe but there has never had a bend or crack maybe I’m just lucky - moonroof I don’t even think about lol and compared to my friends 10th gen si with the HFP package - the type R is hands down worth the upgrade over it - best mpg I can get really trying is 33-35 max - regular driving is around 29 mpg for me - I find comfort mode which I actually use a lot a very nice ride and not harsh at all - I did apply ppf and am scared to park it places :( it does draw a lot of attention everywhere - sometimes I like it sometimes I wanna be left alone lol - the red color does not help that situation - good luck with your decision.
If it’s possible both cars sound awesome and each one has its purpose cause 1 car that does it all it’s kinda hard to find when it has to go to the grocery store with bad parking people and also not having to do extra wear on pads and everything else
5:42 it's going to take the beating and ask for more :D
I love the hatch body style like a humpback SAAB 900; from the Si, trade down to a 'sport' or trade up to an R ? Or compromise with an Integra. Did you go the whole video without mentioning the new Integra?
You know why I drive a 2 seater? Cause I know all my friends got bigger cars and its a great excuse not to have to drive my car
the 1.5t is so gutless and disappointing.I really hope you make that move,the type-r is such a great car.
Dang, Tedward watching your Si series is reason I’m now torn between a Rabbit GTI and the Si as my next fun car.
Had a 2018 GTI, just traded it in for a 2020 civic si. Overall I like the Si better but the GTI was faster but I’m not here racing people. I just wanted a fun daily driver.
@@xWhiteOpZx I’ve been a V-dub nut since my 2009 Rabbit. A 7GTI and 7R later (both were Stage 2), I miss them!
But I LOVE the interior of the Si. Haven’t driven one yet coz they’re few and far between in Greater Vancouver, but I also can’t wait for a nicer shifter, to not know what wheel hop is and to not worry about crank walk.
Sad reality of where I live is that unless I'm traveling far, or downhill, my average milage never exceeds like 22 mpg. Western PA is very cruel to cars and their milage, steep hills, totally unmaintained roads, drivers with iqs that match their age, to top it off I live in a valley which means everywhere I go I'll be going uphill to get there. I can't afford a real nice performance/fun vehicle, but if I could I would take it, cause even with my current car in my environment consumables and milage are vicious expenses anyways.
Oof. Tedward gonna end up paying 2x the price with dealer adjustments, if he can even get an allocation at all. Good luck homie.
See I love the new 11thGen Si too that’s why I test drove it twice now but with that said I’m working on Getting one Sooner than later. What you think 🤔 about the Si with the TypeR 306/295 torque seems like a no brainer to me. That’s why I wish the TypeR pump’d Out at least 350-380/320 torque, that’s right inline with it’s Rivals
Yeah... I can't deal with the bouncy ass suspension so I'd probably stick with the Si. Part of the reason I love my Prelude is the plush ride. Maybe if it was a second car.
17:00 Hypothetically, if you wanted a track day/garage queen to compliment the Si, would you consider a nicely kept S2000?
Yes and I’m actually considering trading m5 for s2000. Hmmmmmm
@@TedwardDrives S2000, favorite car i’ve ever owned / driven. Super fun and good looking car. But their values have nearly tripled since I bought mine, and that suckssss
I've had many nice cars and the s2000 (I had the AP1) was my favorite so far. I say go for it if the S2000 has been well kept
@@Riley1524 there’s nothing like top down and hitting 9000 rpm while looking beautiful and sounding amazing
@@TedwardDrives hmm is right! They're a blast around an autocross track! Caw caw
I drive an FK8 as a daily and you can expect to achieve somewhere between 23 to 30mpg, not more from the K20C1! Btw the MY2020/21 does not overheat like the pre-restyle models, that problem is kinda already solved.
If you aren’t overheating you aren’t going fast enough. Regardless of the year a grill and a updated radiator really don’t solve anything other than prolong the inevitable.
@@eddiesegal5541 my friend said the exact same thing. He's in the process of doing major upgrades to the cooling system(s) in his. He couldn't even do 3-4 laps at road Atlanta last spring without it wanting to overheat
If only they made the si in a hatchback version :(
I’ve gotten 38-39 mpg on my fk8 type r. It just depends on the wind
Seats! Anyone planning on swapping their 22 Si rear seats into their 22 Type R seats?
Have the same 22 Si HPD you do but nonetheless have had 5 down at my local dealership these past 2 months for first dibs on one of the 23 Type R's when they arrive...who knows when-- aar my dealership regularly gets 2.
That said I love driving the Si and have agonized wondering whether or not this is a good decision! Good or not I know exactly what I'm going to do, however, as I assume you do too
It sounds like you still love a lot about the Si. Can you really explore the Type R limits on the road, or would you be wishing for the easy, low maintenance Si? Why not drive that hot 911 a bit more?
Let's be real you're gonna trade it and get the type r. I'm in the same boat and I keep telling myself to keep the si but I know in my heart I'll end up trading in just like you will lol
Civic Type R (CTR) is going to be a same but different car. You might be easily get bored because it is still a Honda. For the same price, I would choose some other cars like Golf R manual or something.
Its a MOONROOF .....glass panel
Sunroof has metal panel you cant see through
A moonroof is in the worst place for center of gravity which is why its gone on the Type R which is performance focused
The R is a money pit that will light money on fire depending on how hard you push it.
My R has 620hp and is a blast to push daily - bring money
Stick with the SI and just have fun with the type r when you can