Slate Digital Raven MTi2 - Things I WISH I'd Known BEFORE Buying
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2020
- I bought the Slate Digital MTi2 almost four months ago. As someone who works full time in the commercial audio production and music industry, I wanted to do a review/my thoughts on what you should know before you buy. These are some considerations I wish I had taken more time to think about before purchasing the Slate Raven.
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The was one of the most honest and informative reviews I’ve ever seen of the Raven. Thanks for posting
New sub
Super appreciate this feedback man! Thank you!
He definitely said honestly enough
Nice honest review, thank you. I do keep looking at these periodically, but it's good to get a reality check.
Thank you! I appreciate it!
MIDI DAW controllers are still superior.
Super honest
Thank you very much for this info, I'm in Brazil and no only this costs 8x more (literally) but I don't get to try before buying, so your video comes extremely in handy for someone like me. All the best!
So glad man to hear it was helpful! Thank you!
Thank you for this video I only had to watch a few minutes and knew that the raven was never gonna work for me.
Slate is a good hype man he really can make things sound good.
Appreciate it!
Thank you Josh for sharing your insights! So often what looks good visually or on paper doesn't quite live up to expectations? I think the greatest lesson I've learned in this video is to learn your instrument whether it's musical or a DAW. The key commands or work around(s) often do the very thing we thought we needed in the product we spend our hard earned money on. If it doesn't work out for you maybe you can donate it to your church or one in need of a high end product? You might be able to get a write-off?
I appreciate your comment Rick! It is interesting that often what we already knew or had is already what we needed
Thanks for your review. Been thinking bout it for a while. Now i know… Salute
Thanks man!
They look amazing and futuristic. But I don’t like having to reach my arm out so much. I use Logic and also use Logic Remote on my iPad up close, and I have all my shortcuts on one page. Works great
I really thought about getting a Raven until I made the realization that I only ever move one fader at a time. So I just kept using my old single channel FaderPort. All your points are very good here.
Thanks man! I appreciate it! I’m finding the idea of the faderport transport more appealing!
Same here.
Yes you can. The issues is I have found it more precise on a fader rather then a tablet.
I have a setup with a 24 inch touch screen (Planar brand) and the primary use case I've found for the touch functionality in mixing is plugin control. Touch makes tweaking plugins much faster and more fun for me. Fader control is nice, but it's not a killer feature compared to plugin control, plus physical controllers do that better.
I've been thinking about upgrading to a 27 inch and choosing between Slate Raven and the generic Planar product. The primary difference is the software that comes with the Raven, which basically makes up the $500 price difference (100 for the touch driver on Mac, 200 for V Control, 100 for Raven itself, 100 for batch commander). Your review is the first one that I've seen going in depth about the usability of the Raven software itself, specifically the fader controller and batch commander. Thank you for that, it's very useful specifically to someone in my position.
To deduct more points from Raven, I'm on REAPER and LUNA for mixing, so to even get the multi-faders, I have to hope they add LUNA support soon.
Looks like I'll be going Planar and saving on the extras to get myself a physical control surface.
BTW, 100% agree on positioning the monitor, though not necessarily the verticality. I had my touch screen at the edge of my desk at about a 45 degree angle. I found the proximity to be the key factor for making it easy to use, not the angle.
Glad this video was helpful!
Interesting enough i had a computer that did this like years ago, it was made by openlabs called a miko and a neko , so im confused what slate is inovating here
That’s a great point man! I know a lot of windows machines have hit that already for sure. Wish Apple would catch up! Of course if Apple were to throw a touch retina like an iPad Pro into their MacBook Pros it would one be ridiculously expensive and two make a whole product obsolete!
you're not being completely honest, there are a ton of great new features, not to mention the mic modeling, the Raven has keyboard fast keys, I.m 61 been mixing since I 19i78, ie OLD DOG I will take a digital and Raven over anything. FYI I do LIVE one take so no TAKE TWO OR 1000 for me.
@@ThomWalbranA1you're a champ please post some videos!
I know this is an old video. But I do believe it was more or less designed to be space saving rather than for faster working environment,
I tried one and like you, I was way faster with key commands “15 years of Protools”, thus I spent the money and invested in a Control24 console, and loved it soooo much more to than I expected, mainly cause knowing the key commands,
meant I was able to find them on the console and use them quickly, that got me to go back out and buy the update avid C|24,
and this thing has absolutely sped up my work flow and creativity, I found myself listening more than look at the screen. Completely intuitive to use, I would always switch the screen off and listen back to a mix and make adjustments on n the fly on the console, very different experience.
The tactile feedback you get from the motorised faders is just so lively.
The raven would be more like a portable studio option for me than a fixed one.
I hanks for sharing your thoughts, definitely highlights some of the misconceptions.
Bless.
I learned on d command systems in school (the larger C|24) and have worked on SSL and API straight line consoles both analog and digital hybrid at various studios. I have also worked in live sound a great deal with larger format desks as well. I definitely agree with your thoughts. But Slate isn’t trying to make a more mobile console. He’s meaning to replace consoles or control surfaces entirely with the Raven.
Out of curiosity, did you mess around with customizing batch commander at all? Most people I’ve talked to who love BC say they make custom batches for naming stems or multiple key commands on a single button
Batch commander has been very glitchy. I’ve reached out to Slate support and have had a hard time getting a hold of them. It’s very buggy. At first I thought it was the software, but I’m pretty sure there’s some bug cause I know others who don’t have the same issue and run the same OS and hardware configs I’m running. With how busy the last year was never really had time to pursue it further. It’s on my to do list for this year including cutting a bit off desk to make the raven more easily reachable.
@@JoshuaKrell Gotcha, well making your own custom key commands is ever something you want to explore, highly recommend the stream deck from Elgato! It’s been a massive game changer for me
Thanks for the recommendation. I use a bunch of custom key commands in my OS. But since I’m a Pro Tools guy they lock that down. I haven’t been able to break away from Avid cause everyone in the production industry wants ptx session files.
Got 2 43in flatscreen TVs, placed the IR touchscreen trims on them and it works very well. Got 2 iPads to sync with all my macros for the key command shorts, templates, chords,and plugins. Around $1200 for the setup.
Nice man! Sounds like a great solution!
Wow any photos?
Have you considered how you are going to resolve the issue yet? Hoping the desk can be modified to bring it vertical and closer.
I’ve thought about it and how I couldI think I’m just gonna have to live with it and once we move to a big place I will build out a bigger desk with more room for outboard gear!
I’m a UI designer and this is one of the main reasons iPad and Mac have separate OS’s. The touch experience on an iPad is just superior and they would never slap a touch screen on something that was designed for keyboard and mouse.
Many large companies have tested this, and probably went thru the same experience you did. I know raven is trying to compromise by using the overlay feature and batch commander etc, but since we’re all used to iPads and tablets with optimized OS’s for touch, we expect more. And I’m not sure if raven could ever get there.
Aside from the UI, ergonomics seems to be the other issue. I dunno, maybe it’s a use slate for some things and keyboard/mouse for everything else type workflow. But is that worth 1,000? 🤷♂️
what about for editing? i just want to use it to quickly zoom down to a frame and then back out to a full project
This saved me $1000. Totally agree with the main points here. Going to stick with the iPad pro and touchable / ONE control / Touch OSC; until I can get my hands on a proper control surface / mixer hybrid.
Glad to hear man!
Have you run a room EQ analysis from your listening position since installing your new desk? Slate specifically warns that flattening the angle of a Raven below 40 degrees introduces comb filtering at the listening position (due to the large surface area of reflective glass between you and your monitors). Great video and very informative regarding ergonomics. Just read that bit about the screen angle earlier today and wanted to make sure it wasn't messing with your mixes.
This is a super useful thought Mark! I think my desk also is causing some comb filtering as well. I’d love to be able to hang a cloud above the whole desk but there is a ceiling fan in the room that would get in the way and this is a spare bedroom in an apartment. I’m going to be doing a home studio tour video soon. As of right now I’ve honestly just gotten good at referencing. Things have actually been translating well. But mainly just cause I’ve worked a lot in this room!
@@JoshuaKrell You make a great point. We all work in spaces that are compromises in some way (unless you've got one of the rare full-time gigs in a 7-figure-budget studio) and getting to know your space and your monitors inside and out is just about the only way to deal with the quirks of any given setup! I just thought that some new comb filtering might be adding to your frustration mixing on the Raven, since you might be finding it a bit more difficult to get things to sit the way they used to for reasons beyond the change in workflow.
@@Mark-vv1dy Absolutely man! As someone who works full time in audio (though mainly in the editing/post production world) you sometimes have to make the best of a space. Most of the time it's not ideal but you just learn your space. I've often gotten better mixes working from home than when working in a professional recording studio that was built from the ground up for recording and mixing, and this is just because I know my space well!
Cheers mate! :)
I did some research into the raven for my new room. At first I was very interested but after looking at it for a while I decided it was actually going to be more cumbersome than a UF8 or something like that. Most of what I saw was hype. And some of the reviewers had to try more than once to grab a fader or a control. Passed on it.
For sure! I have a brand new one from Slate that they sent after the first unit from this video had major issues after less than a year. I literally can’t offload it even as a brand new unit for half the price because people are getting smarter from reviews like mine 😂
Very helpful video mate
Super appreciate it man! 🤘🏻
JOSHUa! Really great video and you nit the nail on the head so many times. I have been trialling just a touchscreen and only a 24" but its a lot of work to reach over etc...but moreso its about mixing with your ears and you cant do that easily with a touch screen. I am now using both ie touch and knobs/faders as well as an old n52 game controller. The biggest game changer was the n52 by far...no reaching and man than thing flys and is so comfortable (current model is razer tartarus...and is cheap. As mentioned by others...sounds like a great idea but the other thing I did was rewrite the mackie MCU protocol so you can drive a lot more by the control surface eg double click encoder button to select slot insert number, keep held down and it pages through the parameters, release and its the normal function, quick click to AB plugin/bypass etc...that reduces so much travel for ergonomics
Thanks man! And that’s awesome man! Happy to hear you found a good workflow!
What size is your desk or where did you get it
Great, honest video. Thanks
Thanks a ton! I appreciate it!
I was thinking about getting the Raven but I passed. I have spent years working as FOH engineer. When it's time to get levels you gotta move fast. I like to work fast in the studio to. I have a Softube console one and a behringer xtouch and a small Korg nanokontrol2. So last week it was time to clean the desk and i decided that I had everything i needed but because of placement I was not utilizing the gear. I arranged the controllers and spent time working on midi mapping. I should have spent more time thinking about the ergonomics because it's effected my work flow.
These are great thoughts man! We just added a fader pack to our touch console at church and it’s sooo much nicer! I had missed it so much as I grew up running larger consoles. Even things like unmuting multiple channels at once on a touch screen is difficult without having your eyes glued to the screen. I’m definitely thinking about grabbing a Faderport from Presonus to use for super precise fader moves.
@@JoshuaKrell Ya i get ya. I have the behringer 8 channel and love it.. I have been thinking about selling the Behringer and getting the Presonus 16 as I know Presonus cares about it's products and Behringer has only released one update in 5 + years..
I wouldn’t use it to track in (already have a console with nice Pres) but I think I could mix comfortably on this thing lol. I like the two screen setup
Thanks for this video Josh, one of the most important points you made is the fact that you DON'T FEEL the fader(s) moving when swiping on a touchscreen. The same issue happens with knobs. Turning real knobs doesn't feel the same as making a swipe on a touch screen.
So in a sense you are replacing the issue of mixing with your eyes (instead of your ears) with another issue which is not FEELING the controls (faders, knobs) the same way you would on a real console or hardware.
That's why I think that for a lot people who are used to hardware it's better to buy a good CONTROL SURFACE. Touchscreens may be a good option for people starting out in sound engineering but it will not be an improvement for more experienced people who have worked on hardware and keyboard/mouse setups for a while.
Personally I think it's very hard to replace real motorized faders and tweaking real knobs. When you become accustomed to this type of setup you can just close your eyes when doing critical monitoring and critical adjustments.
Its really a personal thing. Everybody is different. The Raven concept is very cool and I am sure it can be useful to some people. Your video is very helpful for folks trying to decide if the touchscreen approach is right for them.
Does anyone have a photo of the powersupply of the MTI2, when i moved houses someone put them together with other ps in a big box, now i do not want to try the wrong one.Or do you know the brand and voltage on it? Thanks! Support saddly does not answer the question at all.... i am waiting now since months.
A few points to ponder:
1- Using your ears only is equally inefficient as using Eyes only. Using both speeds up workflow.
(EX:You can identify where you need to punch-in/out visually much faster- You can spot sonic anomalies, noises etc faster by looking at the screen- even an EQ with an analyzer can help you zero in on what you’re after faster)
2- Don’t use the Raven for all those key commands that you instinctively use. Think Macros, or menu items that don’t have key commands, etc- (ex:with one swipe of a finger you can Cut a section, create a fade, copy to the clipboard, and paste to several other tracks and then save and then start playback from the beginning)
Think about all the combinations of key commands you use in succession all the time. Now imagine doing that by a simple swipe or tap on the screen or touching just one button on the Raven console.
When you have to do that maneuver over and over- that kind of macro can save your soul.
3- You’re correct that the monitor needs to be more vertical and closer to you- It's do-able.
4- You’re correct- that “skin” over the PT window is just silly. However, the Raven has a floating mixer that has some possibilities. It needs further development, but for us, it’s the best feature so far.
5- You're correct- any type of hardware console gets in the way of the DAW monitor.
6- Even if you use one fader at a time, you might be accustomed to running your finger across the mute, solo, or record buttons.- You can’t do that with just an ordinary touch screen.
7 - Plugins. Easier to adjust with your finger than the mouse or rotary knobs on a digital desk.
8- Software maintenance/updates are more economical than hardware maintenance. The product will improve over time.
So yes- you have to use it for all the things that you can't do now. It does have its uses and its problems.
It's not a perfect world.
These are some great points. I agree with many of them and totally see your point of view. However, none of these points will make me stick with the Raven as after only a year it already has severely dead pixels and bad power issues. So even tho yes software issues are more affordable to maintain... the hardware issues on here will require replacing it for me after just a year.
Dope review.Appreciate your thoughts.Subscribed...
Thanks dude! I appreciate it!
Interesting, . What was the Raven like to use when you moved it closer to your mix position i.e toward you? It would be the sort of in between solution I would be looking for, primarily to use the faders,.
If you get positioning right it can be nice! I ended up putting the raven back on its stand and propping it up more upright. And it’s more easy to pull faders. I still could never see myself editing on it personally.
@@JoshuaKrell I'm a lso a veteran of the DAR sounstation, a touchscrren unit which was as close to manipulating the audio clips by hand as you could get! More Recently , the Fairlight and all it's variations. Frankly , the best editor available - and with the genius invention of the xynergie panel, a touchscreen with overlaid buttons and controls, which works brilliantly. It had the concept of being able to have the buttons remapped to suit any DAW. Something which never really caught on. As an innovative control surface which I used for 15 years, it appeared to sovle every issue that we are addressing here. I cannot believe it has not been infulenced other systems. I still miss using it! So many good ideas for DAW contrllers out there,
That’s really cool! I wonder why more companies haven’t caught on.
Raven, SSL Uc1 and Uf8….perfect combination!
I’ve had mixed results with touch screens myself. Great for ease of use but terrible for efficiency. Those milliseconds really add up once you get proficient at your app.
Agreed! I feel like even ease of use is debatable. The Raven has over 100 touch gestures to do different things I would do with mouse and keyboard. Very difficult to remember haha!
I've had a studio for 15 years, and the MTi2 since it came out. I use Studio One PC. Raven was the easiest, fastest change for me and I'd never go back. I don't touch that klunky mouse to ride faders, turn knobs/parameters . I don't set it nearly' vertical,' just at it's max extension. Mine sits at the very end of my desk. To reach the top of the touch, it's a 5" reach. My speaker height and 2nd monitor height means I look slightly down at the Raven, straight across to the 2nd mon. I'm always in perfect mix position. I don't see where you're coming from as a result of 5 years of use - and pretty much no problem adapting to it. I never look away from the screen while you spend your time between the keyboard and screen. Fine fader is a hold down of ctrl, but you never really took any time top learn it. Bottom line, your opinion is yours, seemingly based on looking back over your shoulder because you didn't pick this up like many Raven owners have.
I think the opinion expressed here to others deserves a proper rebuttal. Thanks for istening.
To each their own. I know many many engineers who have worked in the field a long time who bought it for the fad and sold it after a short time owning it. Additionally even the touch screen consoles that have come out in live. I know four different engineers in town here alone who have even with having similar setups to the Raven added a faderpack because it’s just not as tactile for them. Again just different workflows. I’m not shooting down anyone who likes the workflow. More power to ya man! I just have found I’m significantly faster with commands ESPECIALLY for editing work which is what I do a lot for corporate commercial post editing. I don’t know anyone in my field who will even look at a Raven. If I was just using it for mixing I think I’d adjust just fine. But not for professional editing work, not with the speed that most production companies I work with require. Believe me I tried and I have two other co-workers with a high end post production company I work with that couldn’t get it refined enough for sub 200ms edits.
Just curious if you have an opinion on SSL's UF8 daw controller.
It has a similar pricetag to the Raven. It's really tempting but I also don't want to make a regrettable purchase. (I made that mistake already buying a Console 1)
That’s a great question! I haven’t tried the UF8 yet. But I’ve worked on numerous SSL desks. They are kinda the standard for mixdown. I can only assume it’s awesome! That being said you might also look at the faderport from Presonus where you can get twice as many faders for $300 less.
is it easy to manage the different knobs of a synth ? Know I need to ake templates for each.
Yes. If you put your finger on the parameter and drag up and down it allows you to adjust it.
I think you mentioned the resolution was better. Perhaps you mentioned but what screens does church utilize? Is live mixing significantly different from music production? I’m assuming so. The angle seems like your setup at church so I’m thinking that those ones are just a different technology and a different way they are utilized.
The church is the same resolution 1080p but they aren’t nearly as bright or sharp. There’s a somewhat noticeable ms delay too. Also at church the way they are setup is for a standing mixer. So I mix standing and that works great actually. With the angle they have. However I’m never mixing for more than 20 min at one time. At home I may be editing or mixing for often 8-12 hours.
Ya. I can see very different use scenarios there.
Great video. Chiming in late, here, just curious if you were aware of the Acer T272HUL? Virtually the same form factor. Now discontinued by Acer, but if you can find one new in a box it'll cost you around $650. Used on eBay for around $400.
It obviously will not come with the Raven software, but since you're not using it anyway...
And, hey, did you say the raven is only 1080p? The Acer is 1440. Not to be confused with the lower resolution 272HL. Make sure the product number has the letter U in it 😎
And I like the PreSonus FaderPort One. I personally would not go for a control service with multiple faders because I would rarely use them. Both the PreSonus and the behringer devices allow you to effortlessly move between Banks and tracks and so forth so why bother gobbling up desk space with faders you won't be using.
Thanks for the honest review!
Hey there,
I hope you still follow this video.
How's the resolution and overall workspace?
I've been using high resolution monitors (4k and ultrawide 3440x1440) and what keeps me from buying something like that is the 1080p resolution (and also the proabbly slow refresh rate compared to 100-120Hz monitors that I use).
I'm curious if the mac you have has more space or gives you different opportunities on your workflow.
There’s plenty better options if you’re just looking for another monitor for sure! I
The Mac monitor in the iMac is 5k and has a much greater resolution with more real estate over the same size. I no longer use the Raven and don’t miss in the slightest.
@@JoshuaKrell thank you very much, especially for the honest and practical review!
Cheers
I have a question. How did you connect the iMac to the raven? I have a thunderbolt to HDMI adapter but its not connecting to the display. Its a 2015 iMac. When i connect it to my with 2 port to HDMI adapter to my 2021 MacBook it works
I believe that was 2017 or 2018 iMac 27” 5k. It had an hdmi port. So I never used an adapter. Plugged straight in via hdmi and then the usb for touch.
thank you that was i was looking for // not getting those things thanks
Get one of those wall TV mounts and just pull the screen to you when you need it and push it back in place when not. Mount it to the desk behind where you have it now so when not needed you can have it in the same position you have it now!
Ergonomics are so important when using a touch screen. I would cut off 6” from that desk or cut a half circle so you can easily access the touch screen, then you will see how much better using touch is..
That’s a good idea man! I may think about that! Of course I still have to fit my midi controller on the desk too which is a good 10” deep. Cool idea tho! Thanks for the comment!
@@JoshuaKrell he's recommending to cut a half circle where your body can go in the middle, it wouldn't have to be that way I do. And then you can just scoot back and put down your MIDI controller anytime.
Sorry for that frustrating experience. And thank you for sharing it. So better just try a regular touchscreen and combine it with presonus faderport which I already have. Right?
Thanks dude! Yeah I would have to say that for me I’d probably go that direction. But there are plenty that would disagree. For me I just like the tactile feel of gripping a fader or a knob rather than having to look to make sure you’re still on it.
I have a brand new one in the box, it doesn't fit any more on my desk, but I remember you can configure faders for very small increments. I think the configuration is little tedious, but once you have it set, it's very nice tool.
My point isn’t that you can’t configure it. It’s that it takes away from the experience for me personally. I don’t want to have to have my eyes glued to a screen to make a fader move so that my finger doesn’t slide off the area that controls the fader.
You want to sell the raven you have ?
@@youthmanrecords965 I wasn’t planning to, but I don’t need it. If a serious buyer comes along I might sell it. Are you interested or just asking out of curiosity?
@@Duracodalmata I’m interested in it. It depends on if your trying to get top dollar from the date of purchase price or are you taking the used price route.
@@Duracodalmata I saw your dancehall video. I specifically record reggae artists both dancehall and roots and culture reggae. I play bass , drums , keys and guitar and create all the music. I have released a #1 reggae single on iTunes 11/20/20 with reggae legend Burro Banton. And I have two top ten Billboard reggae albums I have produced. So I’m serious and professional with music production. More so than your average person
You can do the same with any touch screen monitor for 200 bucks, or 400 if you want a fancy Chinese touchscreen panel.
I have been a musician most of my life. I left the recording to the experts till now. I am building my own studio so I can create on my own. I am used analog mixers from doing shows and rehearsals. Anyhow, I considering the raven slate to be my 1st gear addition for the studio. Wondering if it will be user friendly or am I in over my head by considering this?
If you’re coming from analog world and live mixing I would say I’d be cautious as you will have to learn a completely different workflow and might not even like it once you get it. I have long since sold mine in favor of a more mastering style desk workflow. That being said I do know some analog guys who went all in and do like it. For what I do, lots of editing work it was a no go for me.
There's nothing Tactile about a touch screen unless it provides haptic feedback on the volume steps.. So Ravens are always waste of money until the add the Haptic feedback that also tracks touch extremely well
Thanks Joshua for this video, I'm considering a Raven as I actually do presently have a desk and set up that would be beneficial with the Raven, and I truly don't mind the thought of transitioning into a more touch screen environment in Pro Tools, but I appreciate your honesty and in depth info. Funny, I actually have a PreSonus single fader (like you mentioned) that I use all the time and really love it for fine tuning the mix, so I recommend them and they're pretty affordable. I know you mentioned more about the quick keys and mixing, but I'm wondering if you found the actual editing of audio tracks to be easy or again more of a pain with the Raven? I'm usually editing dialogue for VO work and thought this might be a good way to be more hands on with editing and perhaps faster, but do you find it too "clunky" for zooming in and editing tracks fast? I'm with you as I've been PT user since they came out 20 years ago so I am fast with my trackball and keyboard, but again like the idea of touchscreen editing of single audio tracks and adding crossfades etc.. Like your T-Shirt in this video, as the voice of Obi-Wan Kenobi for the last 18 years I can say that the Force is strong with you indeed! God bless and thanks again! JAT
Thanks so much for you comment James! That is excellent to hear your thoughts on the Presonus! In terms of editing on the Raven it’s somewhat laborious. I’ve really tried to get fast at it, but it’s often difficult to be super precise. It may just be clumsy fingers on my part tho. There isn’t a ton of actual footage of guys editing on the Raven. If you’d be interested I could totally send you a little video of workflow of me editing some dialogue/VO. I edit audio books for Penguin Random House and so have a good handle on editing workflow. My personal thought is it is easier to be Precise with a mouse especially when drawing tiny fades or dropping room tone. Please feel free to know if you’d like a sample video of that! Oh my gosh! That’s awesome man! I just looked you up, you have such an incredible portfolio! Congrats and hats off to you! You do incredible work!
Joshua Krell thanks for the info and the kind words. Yeah I wondered if that might be the case with editing. That’s cool of you to offer the video, if it’s something you happen to do at some point that’s cool, but don’t go to any trouble on my part. My very best to you and hope we can stay in touch! God bless.
I’d love to shoot you over some footage! It’d be my pleasure! Is there a good way to send that over? I have a Dropbox business server account I could throw it onto for you!
thanks for your input here. I am a composer who knows Logic- Not sure the Raven will be helpful
Hi - great dokumentation - thx a lot - i will create a new table - based on your information . i have an idea for you: why you are nor shorten your table, to get closer to the Raven - the cut could be straight or in a long curve. greetings - alexander
Thanks man! I appreciate it!
I feel you. Just had the MTZ for almost 2 Weeks and thinking about. OMG 😱 what have i done. Do I need to sale and get a personas and Big Screen Monitor???
I had it for 8-9 months and giving it some time to learn and just didn’t like the workflow. Sold it and have a mastering style desk now with more outboard gear.
@@JoshuaKrell yep. I guess I’ll do my 1yr or just re think it and see if they will take it back.
If you put a TV mount side ways on your desk you can pull it up to you... think about that?
Or just use the arm support that’s included on the Raven. But then the angle for what I was talking about in there was no at the level for that particular desk for easy line of sight at most angles of sitting. Either way I long since ditched the Raven and have a mastering style desk instead!
I use FL Studio, which has been optimized for touch for several years now. So, all I need a large (upwards of 22") touch screen monitor (they range between 300-550),which are all much, much cheaper than a Raven.
Yeah a lot of people seem to go that route. Where slate tries to make a distinction is their batch commander shortcuts. But I don’t find those shortcuts are worth that kind of money personally when as you’ve said you can find much more affordable touch screens.
How is FL Optimized for touch> Recommended monitors?
Did you get a touchscreen yet? I'm curious what you found through your research, I've been thinking about getting a touch screen as a third monitor with studio
@@ORACLEBALL Me? No I watched someone using one and it looked tedious. For now planning on mouse and key and secondary if anything would try Behringer Xtouch.
The Power of Raven resides on the batch commands, I dont think those monitors can give you that...
Good video josh!
Dude! It’s been forever! How have you been?
@@JoshuaKrell been good just doin my thing…. Channel looks really good 👍…. I was just thinking about getting a raven n i hopped on youtube n your video was the first one to pop up
You still in Spokane man? Thanks man! I super appreciate that! Haven’t had much time to put into it lately, but hoping to in the future! Appreciate it man! Hope all is well with you!
@@JoshuaKrell yeah im still in spokane. Keepin grinding man. Lmk if you ever wanna sell some loop packs of acoustic lol
You bet man! I could knock out acoustic loops super fast and easy! :)
I just bought one today, so I guess I'll wait and see for myself.
Hopefully it works better for your workflow then it did in nine.
@@JoshuaKrell it did not. The screen color and resolution was inferior next to my gaming display, and the Raven’s highly reflective mirror like display is horrible on the eyes. I had it boxed back up, with a return label on it in less than an hour after unboxing. It’s a great concept, but not something I would want to look at for hours on end. Another thing I should mention is if you wear progressive lenses or bifocals, this is definitely not something you want. The angle of focus hits right at the transition part of the lenses and makes it even worse. I now have a used Mackie MCU Pro, and the physical faders and knobs work out much better.
That’s something I’d agree on too. I did find it was manageable when brightness was below 50% but that’s not something you want to have to do!
I have both monitors and the raven Desk with both side carts I run 3 Apallos with Adam Monitors and Adam Sub along with about $80,000.00 worth of additional gear and really love the set up as well as the looks. Such a professional looking studio as well as sound. I come from a family and bloodline of famous musicians and they all love it. Everyone's different though.
Peace...
J. CROPPER
I think some people it works and some it does not for sure. I do have to say you’re right it is a very cool sleek look in the desk, but for me it’s more about functionality.
@@JoshuaKrell Good show, good info and presentation. Ill subscribe. Keep it up Buddy.
CROPPER
I appreciate it man!
Question how did you connect your raven to your imac ???
Using a hdmi port on a hub via one of the thunderbolt ports.
@@JoshuaKrell ok thx ✅💯
that font color overlay is so awkward, cant read what is on the screen due to having that ghosting looking
I appreciate the feedback man! Prob should've gone with something cleaner although that was just to highlight the words I had just said.
I've never been keen on the idea of using touchscreen as the main interface because I'm used to working with shortcuts all the time. However, I just realized that mounting a normal monitor in such way should be more common. It baffles me that I've not seen it anywhere else other than studios. Having a monitor mounted on the bottom is so natural, like looking at a paper, and touchscreen can come in handy sometimes as well.
Btw I just love how unbiased you are in this video. Appreciate that :)
I totally agree on screen angle man! It’s so ergonomic for my eyes and posture. I appreciate your comment! Thank you!
If I were you I would just cut a few inches of wood off the desk to make it shallower if you have problems reaching the screen. That said, good review.
That would’ve only solved part of the issue while not allowing me a to have put my midi keyboard on the desk when I wanted to use it. I don’t miss this setup at all tho.
Touch Screens are cheaper, & probably have similar issues, I just got a 27in for 380 quid, thought it a better buy than multiple control devices, a space saver, its not in front of me in a desk situation its on an arm that can barely support it but I have it where its best for now. It does mean arms outstretched but I kinda wanted some exercise anyway as my mouse arms normally locked in a mad position. Reason isnt multitouch so not much help there, clarisse or gimp aint either, Blender not really, a little more than others. Yet to put some daw app on, but it will have better control. Kinda wish i'd gone for a 24 or 21 in just for ease of placement, the 27 is a little too big for using on your lap, something nice & slim needed with 4k cant be too far over the horizon. The need to touch it wanes quick.
I seen someone use it with a control surface too u don’t have to sell it
That position above created bilateral carpal tunnel for me. Your hands have to be able to reach mouse or touchscreen from where your arms fall - without pushing the arms and elbows forward. Took me 6 months to work pain free again. No bueno ;(
Oh man! So sorry to hear that Stephan. As an audio editor and guitar teacher who puts 8 hours a day on guitar between 60 students and my audio work I totally understand carpal tunnel and have struggled with it for a long time. Hope you are doing better with that! The pain is no joke!
Get your family doc to refer you to an Occupational Therapist. They can show you some stretching exercises that can help with carpal tunnel syndrome. They can also help with some ergonomic suggestions regarding your workplace.
I have an Mti 2 I love it - after set up really have had no issues set was not that difficult there support is great. I am a home studio guitarist/drummer songwriter for me as time goes I keep finding more and more short cuts with the Raven software. I do not regret the purchase at all. Great Product.
Good to hear about your success man! I think it’s come down really to poor positioning for me.
@@JoshuaKrell
Hi Josh my name is Justin. great review. did'nt watch all of it because i sort of knew what you was going to say! i was seriously thinking about rearranging my hole bedroom studio to accommodate the raven but within 5 minutes of your do's and don't. i can't help but think the raven would be the perfect companion for my steinberg CC121... i use cubase and i totally agree that hands on control is always going to be the way forward. I'm going to mix the old with the new and i'll let you know how it pans out. Jus.
@@justinparker8396 Thanks for the comment Justin. Hope you are able to find some good success. I have done some repositioning of my desk and and am getting some cut off of it. I may do another video on it!
Great video man, very informative. And yes it seems that you were using it too far from you :)
Thanks man! I appreciate it!
He should have bought the proper Slate desk for it. It was designed for ease of use for the screen(s). Seconds, the desk adjusts for 1 screen or 2 screen same desk. You have to buy side cars separately on each side of desk for hardware rack gear. Wish it came with rack space.
First of all stop yelling haha!
Secondly those desks would never have worked in that room due to size because of needing rack space and speaker stands. This was a small room. I did consider one of those desks, however the other thing with those desks is you also lose the ability to change the height of the Raven or to have a another display. I was running an iMac rig which would’ve have worked either.
@@JoshuaKrell NOT YELLING. JUST LIKE USING CAPITAL LETTERS. I HAVE THE OFFICIAL DESK AND IT'S SUPER! NO ISSUES AT ALL.
IT'S NOT SLATE DIGITAL'S FAULT FOR YOU CHOOSING TO BUILD YOUR OWN. I UNDERSTAND YOU WERE TRYING TO SAVE A BUCK, BUT THE DESK GIVES YOU GREAT ACCESSIBILITY. WITH THE RIGHT DESK YOU ARE RIGHT THERE TO ACCESS ALL THE FEATURES. THEY MADE A GREAT DESIGN AND PRODUCT.
Why wouldn't you use Logic Remote on an iPad?
I’m not a logic guy.
@@JoshuaKrell Oh I see. I didn't even realize it wasn't Logic. I just saw the iMac, didn't give it a second thought
I own logic and many other daws, but Pro Tools is my workflow as many clients require ptx files. The Raven is also significantly larger than the iPad Pro. The smallest Raven is more double the size of an iPad. But there is a lot of merit to the iPad route as it is a stand alone tablet as opposed the Raven being a glorified monitor. I have long since sold the Raven though!
use macOS catalina? thnks
Yes! I am on Catalina.
Do u have plans on how you built ur desk?
I had someone else build the desk for me as I don’t have the tools. If you Google the Platform desk my desk is based on that and they have the dimensions on their site. All we did is take the middle rack unit and make it wider to accommodate the raven.
Just Bought one about to get another I love it he is right if you know keyboard short cuts already for Protools I do but the programmability in the Raven is bar none yes it’s a learning curve like any other Piece of Gear but hey Those are the Breaks
@@dojotelevision7076 Best of luck to you with the Raven! As it so happens I had a bunch of hardware issues go wrong on my Raven and I sent it back to Slate and just received a brand new Raven in the mail from them. It is up for sale right now.
@@dojotelevision7076 me I love it cause the screen is closer to me and my eyes aren’t as good as they use to be so it helps. I rearly use it as it was attended to be use. But sometimes I do
@@STMENTNETWORK me too man I finding out so many things about this Raven loving the batch commands and about to learn how to record mouse clicks I give myself 6 months I’ll be rolling Pro Style
nice tutorial was thinking of going this route. But $500.00 for a plywood desk 3/4 inch plywood 4X8 sheet $45.00 Rack Rails $20.00 Stain $10.00 Fasteners $$10.00 hardware $20.00 Labor $400.00.
Supplies actually came to around $250. I got receipt from the individual who bought all the stuff at Lowe’s. So it was more like $250 in labor plus having him bring the desk over and assemble it for me.
I have two of these in my studio. And his VMS etc. And to sum Slate hardware (and software) products: 90% marketing 10% quality. I regret everything I bought.
I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say that. I think some of the stuff in the VMS suite is great! But a lot of the hype is marketing, they definitely aren’t comparable with the UAD stuff I love!
LMAO 🤣. Slate has t best plugins on the market.
@@theaviary238 they have never even been in the top 10. But the best marketing for sure. But you newbs love it since you get all the crap for basically nothing.
I wouldn’t put them anywhere close to the same level as UA. But I use their stuff when I run out of processing power on the UA!
@@JoshuaKrell I love my VMS!!!
laser mouse is op i spent 8 bucks on my mouse and it works amazing
I’ll have to check it out!
@@JoshuaKrell I used my Apple laptop half of my life I forgot how good a mouse was
@@lafoudrepasslafoudrepass5238 I’ve used a Apple Magic Mouse for the last probably 8 years. Before then I was all PC. I’ve tried various “ergonomic mice,” but nothing has stuck.
Does Raven really works with Video ? Like final cut pro x. Etc?
About the same degree as an iPad would yeah. No batch command obviously. But basic touch features you bet!
@@JoshuaKrell ooh yeah. Who cares about batch commands when video editing works and don’t have to switch up
I wish it was more showing and less talking but either way - did you talk about plugins? I bought One years ago and returned it quickly but I’m back to the same place where I want to be able to touch plug-ins and virtual instruments. Be able to see the whole channel strip and have all the parameters on one page.
The iPad is as close as I’ve gotten but too many clicks and awkward awkward swipes.
If I were you I’d go back and make another video the talks may be more evenly about the product and actually show it off what does it do well, you know…
Thanks for the feedback.. I long since got rid of the Raven and built out a mastering style desk to accommodate more outboard. Don’t miss the Raven at all.
I wish I used my MTi more than I do. Better than buying an Avid S3
Yeah Avid’s control surfaces have always been higher priced. I thought about some of the presonus options.
Bro Butvdo you really use it cause I love this shit
I bought one a few years ago. It was okay for a while, but I quickly grew frustrated with trying to align it with Logic. I recently bought a Faderport 16 to use instead.
The Raven does seem like solid hardware, but the resolution isn't good. At that size, it needs to be 4k to make the text on those buttons readable. Can't imagine what the bigger ones are like if they're only HD too. The software seems duct taped together. So many background utilities to run and set up. It's clear that they've just bought in a touch solution and just used the manufacturer's software instead of integrating the hardware with their own software.
These are great thoughts man! I do agree with your points as well! I’ve recently been considering selling the Raven as I do miss proprietary faders. It should definitely be 4K for this size screen. It’s really funny because I have the 5k iMac right above the Raven and there is no comparison in resolution.
How much was the Desk
I spent $200 in wood and $300 in labor for it to be built to Raven specs.
@@JoshuaKrell thanks bro
You bet man!
I wouldn’t buy Raven, I might buy DTouch but I would for sure buy a touchscreen (optionally with Tuna Knobs), be it just for controlling the plug-ins which is cumbersome to do with hardware controllers. Even if I bought DTouch, I would probably not use its buttons and macros because they reduce the screen real estate, instead I would probably use on an iPad something like MetaGrid or ZenDaw or TouchOSC or Lemur.
I’ve definitely thought about buying an iPad Pro and using it as a secondary monitor and if I want to touch in a plug-in parameter I can. The advantage of a tablet over Raven for me is portability and the fact it’s a computer in itself. I bought my wife and iPad Pro and I tested the idea and it seems to work very well. I also have sold the Raven and am building a mastering style desk so I can get back into outboard gear again!
@@JoshuaKrell For mobility a newer laptop might be all what u need as many of them have touchscreen displays.
I hear that. Except I am stuck on the Mac OS platform.
Well.... I just bought a Raven and it increase my workflow in less two days like hell. I think you don't optimised your desk, just up the raven, who cares about the Apple Logo????, the automatic alignment process is easy and the internal mixer is really good. Gestures are crazy.
Conclusion, you are a noob who don't take the good decisions to understand this amazing product...
No need to name call because its working out for you, im pretty sure if we were to look closely something that didnt workout in your life we can call you a noob too right?
Idk why you'd want more screens. I hate looking at screens.
I sold mine and bought a mixer
Oh yeah? What’d you end up getting?
@@JoshuaKrell I got the Soundcraft signature 22, I found the MTI2 uncomfortable to use and every time I install a maschine update it stops working and I have to reinstall
Oh! So an analog desk isn’t it? Do you just mix on there and print into your DAW?
@@JoshuaKrell yes
Softube Console 1 & Fader.
I’ve heard mixed things! How do you like it?
@@JoshuaKrell I just got it. Why did I wait so long? Its smooth.
Video begins at 3:17
Good video and good points but bro you need to fire your barber lol
Thanks man! And hey fair enough 😂
Honestly
You started this saying you made a purchase mistake but what you’ve described is more your operational errors.
What you do is turn your eyes off while your mixing. No lie. I can literally look at a screen and mix but I don't register what my eyes are seeing. I always trust my ears. Always. People come to me for my ears. Not my eyes. If your reading this always use your ears.
the solution for not looking at the screen so much is to buy another one lol
Yeah 😂 seems like a great idea huh?
But can you mix is the question.
Judge for yourself.
Raven was made for mixers not editors.
They talk a great deal about how it works great for editors. In fact even some of the guys at Slate tried to make be believe it. But some of the video footage they sent just proved to me more it’s definitely not an editing tool. So I do agree with you sentiment.
@@JoshuaKrell Also if it was that productive of a system a lot more engineers would use them. The amount of videos about the Raven on UA-cam would be in the thousands if it really was that good. Very few videos on this product.
Ummm.... remember that even on an actual console, you still have to initially look for the _right_ knob/button/fader....._then_ you use your ears. Same with a touchscreen.
Hmmm... interesting. I used to have certain consoles ranging from large format Avid D-command digital boards to analog consoles such as Neve and API memorized just by touch and feel. I hardly ever needed to so much as glance down. This is much more difficult as with a touchscreen if you don’t look down every time before, you will not even know what your finger is touching... In fact the church I’m on staff at literally just ordered a whole Waves fader bank because the other team members and AV guys were experiencing that same issue.
@@JoshuaKrell Yeah... so you are saying you can 1) Close your eyes. 2) Reach over a grab the lo-mid eq freq knob, for channel 27. Right. Granted, there is a difference between a real console and a touchscreen, but please don't make it sound like you can operate a real console, blind and error-free.
How much time have you spent on a variety of consoles Bruce?
@@JoshuaKrell Enough. Been working with audio for 40 years. I know that operating a mixing console is not all based on "muscle memory" and "ears". If you do operate that way, you _will_ grab the wrong control at some point. No reason to debate further.
Yes I would agree my point is on a touch screen you have to literally stare at a touch screen entire time you are using it otherwise you will go completely off a fader or pan pot. In comparison a console is much much more learnable.
I never liked that Raven thing.
Yeah I don’t miss it at all. Much prefer my 36” curved ultra wide with a mastering style desk.
ill save everyone 20min of life:
if you run a pro studio the raven will save you time and money, if your a hobbiest like Luke Skywalker here, it will not be understood and never utilized fully.........Your welcome.
Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed lol. FYI, this is coming from someone who works in audio production for a living and who has worked on numerous NY Times best selling audiobooks in post production. Also FYI, after less than a year of use the Raven crapped out due to bad control panels in the display and fried PSU...
@@JoshuaKrell Has it ever occured you might have a bad unit? And why would you need a Raven for audiobook post production? Maybe yours died from under use....
Quite obviously a bad unit when you get dead pixels and control panel within a year from hardly any use. Yes, with audiobook edits the edits are far to fine to finger draw in with the Raven.
What you're saying doesn't make any sense... the controls operates the same ~ the visual is the same, and you're responding to the audio.
Your set-up is centered around the Keyboard and Mouse and not utilizing the benefits that the Slate Console offers.
Technology advances some people don't.
I have both an analog console and work in the Box using the Slate.
Using a DAW and quality Plug-ins saves thousands in required studio hardware going with a Analog Console.
SLATE DIGITAL has succeeded in linking the new state of the art computer technology with a familiar Analog "Visual Experience"
A very cost effective Home Studio solution for aspiring artists...
I'm 70 and the learning curve is not all that bad ~ brain surgery it's not.
Bro sell it and get a 5K screen instead.
You might’ve noticed I had a 5k iMac in that old video! My current setup now thought I opted for a mastering style desk with a 36” curved ultra wide monitor.
@@JoshuaKrell I need to upgrade, either a Mac studio or a MacBook Pro. I’ve had a few offers for some placements etc, but I need to travel, and they have other daws which I can use but prefer cuebase after over 2 decades of using it. so I’m thinking MacBook Pro plus a widescreen at home. Was looking at monitors. Would be good to see yours. My 2017 iMac is still good but when I’m running loads of buss and processors it sometimes crashes. I fear for all my plug ins that I forget. I also have an older MacBook Pro 2017 won’t cope and fear that I should get a Mac studio. So I’m stuck what to get.
Most studios don’t use cuebase, I’m even thinking to switch daws but I know mine inside out like you said about yours. I can use them all but cuebase is by far the best IMO, it’s similar to pro tools out of them all but for me much better. Idk.
Man would be cool to get some guitar loops acoustic if you have a load.
@@libtekk I have a Mac Studio m1x, Mac mini m1 and MacBook Air m1. The Apple silicon tech is great!!
Cubase is great. It was my first DAW. I’ve used pro tools for years now too because so many production houses use it, but I’m prob gonna be fully making the move to logic for music and mixing and editing in pro tools.
Church ,reverse ,I'm out
look in the camera .. not urself
Back then when I had a really bad autofocus camera, I wasted a LOT of time filming looking straight into the camera when the whole time I was filming it was not focusing.
you think $1000 is a lot to spend WAKE UP
Lol. The point isn’t that I was “financially destitute” from a $1000 purchase which was literally just one of hundreds of business write offs I make every year. The point is that the product was not right for me lol.
Thank you for this honest review! I agree with all your sentiments as I was considering a Raven. I purchased a 15” touch screen monitor to work with studio one as an experiment. Faders definitely work better for me and trackball 🖲️ mouse.
thanks you!