Exactly people underestimate the emperor. Thjs was his plan...if the Sith cant win through the darkside...he does this through the light side. He tricked the force.
@@splashnskillz37 hmmm, who said the SKYWALKERS are gone? They came about through an anomaly without a father. Who said it can't happen again? Since the SKYWALKERS are the chosen ones then they can come back
@@armaniwebb4467 if another miraculously conceived force baby is born. Then it wouldn't be a Skywalker. It wouldn't be of the same family. Yea, it would probably be as strong, make just as significant of a bloodline. But it's still not a Skywalker.
Anakin was literally born to destroy the sith and bring balance to the force, but who ultimately did it? The f**ing granddaughter of the guy that caused the imbalance in the first place and of whom we never even knew he had children. Palpatine never wanted family. He actually killed his own parents. That story simply doesn‘t make any sense
Well when you are approaching death sometimes even the most evil people have a change of heart. Except Stalin, he supposedly waved his fist at the heavens before he died....that dude died evil.
I roll my eyes and laugh reading listening to losers watching these movies when SWTFA SHOWED what KK Abrams & Disney were going to do to the original trilogy. No amount of Thor's asskissing logic fairness justifies this shit to waste money & time watching this.
I was constantly leaning back in my seat after cringing from some stupidity that the movie committed, so much so that the guy next to actually asked me to stop. This movie was a travesty.
Lmao I really wish she had gone, “I’m Rey... _Palpatine”_ and then just turned and force lightinged the lady and her weird horse into charred embers as the screen faded to black
I was confused merely because I never saw Palpatine as the type to get in a relationship of familiarity, or even abuse. He only sought the Dark Side, only sought to have its power flowing through him! But you, my friend... you've brought a fascinating question to the table!
Because they originally planned for her to be a Skywalker, but TLJ ruined JJs outline, so they had to call an audible and make her a Palpatine. Of course, it ruins the saga since that means the Skywalkers are wiped out and a Palpatine, who steals the Skywalker name, is all thats left.
It would have been a far more satisfying end to Kylo’s story if he had actually helped kill Palpatine. It would have been poetic because he would have finished what Vader started. The final destruction of the Sith.
Kylo should have consistently been Rey’s superior in both combat and the force until the final movie where she has finally reached his level or at the very least somewhat close to it, she never should have had God Mode unlocked for herself from the very start of this trilogy.
Even in TROS, she shouldn't be any where near Kylo's level. Kylo has trained his entire life under both Luke and then Snoak. Rey "Trained" for one year under Leia...
@@Prophecy6 Luke had like one or two years of training and still beat Vader in Return of the Jedi; that doesn't necessarily make much sense but it works.
@@SteelFyire Vader beat Luke in the first duel, Luke spent 4-5 years out fighting a rebellion. Vader's head was not in it, the goal was always to turn Luke not to kill him. Time passed between movies, we know that and we've also seen that there was enough time for Luke to significantly progress his force powers. Probably because he's been out training all this time. So it does make sense, not that you want to admit that.
@@AntoineVello Vader still had decades of experience over Luke, and that bit about wanting to turn Luke to the dark side also applies for Kylo. I don't disagree that it was stupid that Rey was able to beat Kylo in the Force Awakens; that was part of why Kylo was never going to be able to stand on his own as the main villain of the sequel trilogy.
She wouldn't have to take the name, it would just be assigned to her when she went to an airport or enlisted in something and didn't have a last name. That's what happened to Han in the first place after all.
God, they tried to establish so many fucking relationships with the old characters and none of them stuck. And then the one that had a lot of chemistry, Rey and Finn, got thrown into the dumpster for god knows what reason.
JJ Abrams: Makes a big mystery box over who Rey and her parents are. Fans speculate about Rey Rian Johnson: Throws it out the window and says Rey is nobody. Fans divide over was that a good move or not JJ Abrams: pulls his mystery box out of the trash can and so overcorrects in fan fiction levels of writing that Rey becomes supreme goddess of the universe with no flaws and all the powers, assets, and makes Anakin Skywalker’s story amount to dead wamp rats
I didn't feel anything when that film ended. I just didn't care anymore. Rey taking the last name of Skywalker was just one more thing she stole from better characters.
Thor Skywalker, Rey now being a "Palpatine" just like that ruins a lot of things: *a)* it was poorly established and executed with no proper build up to it, like we still don't even know who her parents are; *b)* it goes against the nature and philosophy of the Sith, which are incapable of love and don't start families to produce Sith heirs, but rather search for potential ones all across the galaxy as they always did; *c)* it goes against the very personality of Sidious himself, who killed his entire familiy in falling to the Dark Side when he was very young and isn't exactly the person who would start his own family; *d)* it destroys the importance of the Skywalker bloodline and the importance of Anakin being the Chosen One, since at the end it is Rey who defeats Sidious, not Anakin; *You simply can't justify poor writing and character development, or force things to make any sense when they don't!*
To play devil's advocate a *little*, the Sith aren't big on love, but they're /more/ against mercy, which they find far worse than love. Passion is also all you really need to make a kid, and the Sith are all about that. But it was poorly executed. That's absolutely true. It definitely mars the prophecy too, if you're big on that.
@@brianschwartz7356 i agree! From the start there was a lot of potential to her character, but then KK activated the "Force is whamen" card and then... shits hit the fan!
e) The issues of Rey's parents was supposed to be settled in TLJ. Bringing back the issue in TROS just wasted time and added little to nothing to her character. Time wasted revisiting the issue could have been spent developing the plot or her character. Instead Rey spends the WHOLE TRILOGY not knowing who she is f) It DOES ruin the reveal from TLJ, because her origin as a palatine actually has LESS impact than the reveal that her parents were nobodies. The Nobody status of her parents not only meant that she was a nobody, but it also meant that she was unloved and ABANDONED on Jakku; all the hope she had that her parents would one day come back was a lie and a waste. Its was a very cruel and cold truth. Finding out that her parents actually cared about her and had a reason to leave her on Jakku because of her big bad Grandpa, actually has LESS impact for her as a character
Rey is the textbook Copycat Sue like in bad fanfic, in this movie too. She is not just the better, more powerful Luke version, but also Han (his gun, ship and lapdog Wookie) and Leia (her empathy, saber and leadership). Finally she even takes over Anakin's chosen one role by bringing final balance to the Force (destroying Palpatine) which Anakin evidently failed with... Further, everybody from friends to enemies tell her she is the best and most important. Her powers reach god mode level here, forcing ships out of orbit, Force teleportation, Force lightning, Force healing the dead and Force skyping (I thought the latter killed bums like Luke) - in short, she gets any ability she needs to look good. Finally, she even takes over the heroes name and home. There is a petition to rebrand the Sue trope into Ma-Rey Sue, would make perfect sense.
force healing and force lightning are two of the most broken abillitys in Star Wars to randomly give Rey both with no explanation makes her more over powered here. You also forget her floating ability, first time we've seen floating in the movies and god tier sailing skills.
A palpatine takes...correction...steals Luke's saber, droids, home, his best friend's ship and finally rubs insult to injury by stealing his name too.. Rey is nothing more than the President of Lucasfilm using her authority to defile the legacy of George Lucas. It is almost impossible to view this character in a non-meta view. she's so OP and bland that she cannot fit into the narrative without taking the viewer out of any immersion they have in this story. The attempts made in this movie to give her an arc seem too forced and cliched. Even if we make a stretch to think that she learnt force healing from ancient Jedi texts, it doesn't help that her telekinesis is beyond ridiculous for anyone, even an OP Palpatine. It also doesn't help that Luke stating that he and Leia knew she was a Palpatine since TLJ only makes the entire Ach Too plot of that movie worse. There are so many unanswered questions, like why did a "Skywalker" lightsaber call out to a Palpatine? Why did she not see Palpie in that dark side well / cave in TLJ? How doesn't Snoke realise who she was? So on and so forth.. Overall, Rey is a blight on Star Wars and entertainment overall whose creation and existence in the Star Wars canon only serves as a reminder of the power abuse by egomaniacs like Kennedy. It should serve as a lesson for "pitfalls of bad writing and author inserts - in this case, a corporate overlord insert" She is not a Jedi by any acceptable definition of that term in Star Wars lore. Probably my most despised character in the new trilogy.
@@dorianleakey i wouldn't care for this character or her story either, if it wasn't inserted into the core star wars story / lore. If it was a fan fic or "legends" character, I'd not be bothered at all.
Of course. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Much like those who would want TLJ to be better reviewed because it promotes a message people want said, rather than being an actually profitable piece of entertainment.
When I think about Rey the character, it is very difficult now for me to separate her from the Kathleen Kennedy issue anointing her before the movie even came out. It tainted her development. Also, the inconsistency with her powerful force abilities compared to all other Jedi pulls me out of the land of make believe and into the real world wondering why the directors couldn't be more consistent with past Star Wars films. I see her as a puppet with Kennedy's hand inside. And it's a shame because I actually really liked Rey at the start of Force Awakens and I enjoy Daisy Ridley's performance. I think she was a great choice as an actress and had the makings of a great Jedi character...but was mishandled by the puppeteers after she was taken prisoner by Kylo Ren in TFA.
Rey always beating Kylo is like saying a random person who doesn't play sports beats an Olympian on the first run due to "natural talent." Talent isn't a replacement for hard work.
I would argue that Marvel had more consistent vision for the MCU, whether people like the MCU as a product or dislike it compared to the comics--which, while we're on the subject, are a parallel universe rather than retconned. Reinventing the wheel might've worked for Marvel, but Lucasfilm did nothing Marvel did in order to make it work.
Thrawn trilogy is a hundred times more interesting, purposeful, intriguing and well written than the Mary Sue saga. The Disney sequel is crappy EU and i wont ever change my mind about that.
YOOOOO! I just re-read the book Rogue Squadron from the X-wing series, and in that book was a BEAUTIFUL example of why a Y-Wing Bombing run would win ANY FREAKING DAY!!!! Over the TRAVESTY that was Rian Johnson's bombing run in TLJ...
The problem with adapting the Thrawn trilogy is that it takes place shortly after the original trilogy. They waited thirty years. They waited too long -- assuming they wanted to use the same actors.
At the end of the day, this has destroyed the entire first six episodes and made them pointless. KK has retconned so 1 to 6 just so a woman could do what a man already did. Rise of Skywalker is a meaningless title.
As usual Thor, you seem to get out of your way to be fair and to do justice to most every point of view. But in my opinion you are overestimating the possibility of fixing the sequel trilogy's problems with tiny edits. It's been stylisticaly designed to be that way. And you can't undo that!
Huh.. that would make sense.. That would have multiple meanings to it. Yeah, she took on a name from her mentor but, it also means that she is on her own, she is the one and only Rey, basically Solo. And as we know the name was given to Han for being on his own.
Gundislav , that seems the second best option to me. Rey is no politician, and she is no general. If she developed a bond with Leia, we didn’t see it, and it will likely be something that turns up in supplementary content. But she could take that name with aspirations to be those things, I suppose. To me, though, “Solo” seems to work better because of her bond with Ben, her association with Han, and her backstory. Maybe it’s not as tidy as “Skywalker” or as aspirational as “Organa,” but I guess it doesn’t really matter. Doubt we’ll see Rey in another movie any time soon.
Agree with you, though the Reylo kissing scene shouldn't exist for that to work (but that kind of goes without saying, that was a really poor decision imo).
dannyhuskerjay yes it did. Because all it was doing was rubbing in how OP this character was who had no reason or business being that powerful at this point in her career. Maybe 20 years down the line. But not now.
dannyhuskerjay No not in ROTJ. That never happened. And floating while moving all those stones around? That takes a supreme amount of effort and concentration. I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m saying that after only a year of “training” from Leia who never completed training under Luke who didn’t have any formal training either. All the stuff Rey does means that Leia knew how. And given the short span of time she did train she would’ve NEVER learned all of that stuff so quickly. It took Luke 3 years to learn how to pull a lightsaber to his hand. This should not be possible for any force user, regardless of lineage or midichlorian count so early in training. Z
The bloodline thing is one of the reasons why I love Theron Shan and (the idea of, since we never really get to meet him) Vaner Shan. They come from such a powerful family, with powerful parent(s), and yet they are both just normal, non Force sensative, men who still manage to find ways to have a profound impact on the galaxy (spy and Supreme Chancelor respectively).
I've said it before I'll say it again: I don't like Rey being from a famous family. Not because I think she stands for anyone being a Jedi (prequels do that fine), but because it honestly makes the galaxy so immensely SMALL. So many worlds filled with literal billions of people. Only 2 families really matter for the fate of it all. If we had an instance of that in real life it would just be silly. Also Disney had to pull a big retcon so that the kiss wouldn't signal galactic banjos. Galaxy spanning is so small in Star Wars that incest happens. God that makes everything feel so small....
This whole saga was literally suppose to be the story of one family across the generations. Its called the Skywalker saga for a reason. Because it's all about that family. The focus is small because you're telling THEIR story. They're the focus. And even in that, we've had plenty of heroes whose families we knew nothing about. Especially in the prequels. So we already know you don't have to come from a special family to be powerful.
@@MauiDave74 Im pretty sure George was the one who said that he was telling the story of the Skywalker family. I'd wager that makes it a little more than just a meaningless marketing term. Well, that and the fact that the first six movies were literally all about the impact of the Skywalker family on the galaxy. And that everything that happened centered around them.
@@noelcrenshaw7969 You're missing the point. Yes, the story was about Anakin and Luke, but the term "Skywalker Saga" is an empty marketing term. George has never used it. Heck, even Howard Roffman never used it. It was always referred officially as the Star Wars Saga. It's like the absurd, Age of Republic, Age of Rebellion, Age of Resistance junk. So awful, it's obvious that some marketing hack came up with it.
@@MauiDave74 Making her powerful was an stupid mistake. If they just made her power level normal they wouldn't have needed an explanation for how strong she was in the first place.
SHE CAN FLY NOW! That intro scene where she's mid-air, meditating on the force, and has rocks revolving around her... She brings her consciousness back to "now", flips in the air and gently floats down to the ground. After seeing that, I knew exactly what type of film it was going to be.
Force Healing was part of the canon prior to The Mandalorian and Rise of Skywalker; the Mortis story arc in The Clone Wars where The Daughter gives up her life to revive Ashoka. As for Rey, I still see her as a Mary-sue. While I'll give Abrams credit for giving Rey flaws, those flaws do not carry any weight. Also everyone wants her on their side because of her God-like powers. So essentially she was a God-sue who got everything handed to her just because of Kennedy's agenda outside the film.
"I'm Rey" "Rey...who?" ... "Rey...just Rey"... See how this would've been way more Powerful because we already had this one. First She wasn't sure, frustrated...now, she can proudly say she's just Rey
Wait, Kylo finally wins one? I'm starting to look forward to watching this eventually. Shame that there's no way to fix the truly wasted Captain Phasma.
@C J because they think people are stupid. They thought of they just slap Star and wars on something the masses would flock, sadly they were not totally wrong,
I loved Rey. I was mesmerized with her introduction on tfa and i was eager to know more about her in the following movies. Going into episode 7 i was ready to move on with the old characters, i only wanted the movies to give respect to them and then take us with some (loosely related to the original trio) new characters into a new adventure. Unlike most people, and despite the fact i think its a flawed movie noneless, i walked out the last jedi very satisfied with the fact of Rey being nobody. Although i was starting to get annoyed with the lack of logical explanation for her powers and the lack of struggle started to become boring. I wanted to wait until this trilogy ended to give my final thoughts on the character and now i can regretfuly say i hate Rey Skywalker :( im sorry, i really dislike what they did with the sequel trilogy. I had a swell time watching them but at the end of it all i think it was such a waste of everybodys time and money. Both the prequels and the OT were movies that stuck with me forever, for better or worse, flaws and all. I dont think we'll be talking about the sequel trilogy that much in the future
I'd recommend watching David Stewart's videos here on UA-cam about the Sequels and he really goes deep into the story elements of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy and made video basically describing the Sequel Trilogy as like dream where you go through moments in Star Wars, but being a dream not everything is going to be exactly the same. Rey is effectively the audience Avatar throughout this trilogy and why she is a Mary Sue. While I was watching The Force Awakens the way she reacted in excitement of everything seemed like how a Star Wars fan would react to it all. Rey goes through all the familiar story beats, meets all the fan favorites and is liked by them and even surpasses them. Hell she, or better put you have a noble sacrifice, but being dead isn't fun so you come back to life to live in the Galaxy far far away and is effectively the center of the universe. Like a dream the Sequel Trilogy movies don't feel like a cohesive narrative, but a serious of familiar moments strung together. It all comes off as a bad fanfiction. Another great point he makes is how each movie is dominated by a meta-narrative. The Force Awakens is dominated by indulging in nostalgia of the Originals and rejection of the Prequels, The Last Jedi is dominated by a rejection of all of Star Wars popular tropes and rejection of The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker is dominated by nostalgia again, but no is rejecting The Last Jedi. Instead of continuing the story logically instead they are too self aware and not only that each Sequel Trilogy movie is rejecting past movies and each other. It also reminds me of a video by Comics Matter aka Diversity and Comics, aka Ya Boi Zack, aka Richard C. Meyer who made a point about Girls Toys and Boys Toys and that Boys aspire to be the Toys they play with. He wants to be He-Man, Duke, Optimus Prime, Han Solo. Where as girls project themselves into the toys they play with, that Barbie is them. So basically the idea is that the audience member particularly women see themselves in Rey. It's why here design doesn't change a lot between movie's to remain familiar. We she has no flaws because your suppose to be Rey and you don't want to ever be belittled, insulted, or defeated. You don't want to be told you're a flawed person.
Rey...biggest missed opportunity in all of Star Wars. Great actress...interesting enough backstory. But, ultimately, a hollow character that navigates her way through the narrative of three movies by basically being told where to go the whole time. They wanted a strong female character...they wrote a puppet.
You forgot her levitating and so gracefully landing, holding up rocks (though, not as many as in TLJ), healing Kylo from near death (apparently through life force transference, but she doesn't seem affected by it at all), the pulling down the shuttle before frying it, she can have duels across time and space and even teleport items into other people's hands. IDK. She seemed mysteriously powerful in TFA. She seemed comically OP in TLJ. In TROS, she feels like a straight up superhero to me. And, despite them attempting to give her some "trials" she felt more like a Mary Sue than ever to me. Her self doubt didn't seem sincere at all because she was doubting for the first time while also being more powerful than ever. Everyone new immediately thought she was awesome. The Emperor wanted her to take his place. She gets defeated by Kylo, but then actually defeats him when he's distracted, then she makes him good. She dies but then he gives his life for her. She drops a tree on BB-8 to show she's failable, but it's okay. He's fine. Poe gets mad at her for being the best there is. It's fine. Everything is just... fine. JJ realized she should have her own lightsaber and she had plenty of time to make her own, but he's too upset with the saber that should have stayed lost decades ago being meaningful, so he waited until the end of the movie to not show her making one that she may not even need now. This entire movie is just so... dumb. This trilogy was so pointless and, even worse, was led by two directors that seemingly politely despised each other's movies. We live in the bad timeline for Star Wars.
It's fucking hilarious that a franchise with an amazing female character like Kreia somehow needed a "STRONG WOMYN" like Rey. Like seriously, 3 minutes of Kreia talking shit about you did more for Star Wars than 3 whole movies with Rey being a self-insert.
The reason why I'm disappointed that Rey is a Palpatine has nothing to do with her parents... but with Palpatine! How can a power hungry person, seeking nothing but unlimited power and immortality, displaying no interest in familiarity beyond tempting Anakin into becoming Vader, suddenly desire to become intimate with a woman! Palpatine never struck me as one who would seek the company of a spouse, nor as one who would seek the pleasure through abuse! All he desired was the Dark Side, all he wanted was to feel the power of the Dark Side flowing through him! Being a father, or having a wife or concubine does not make sense!
To be fair, Palpatine sees everything as an opportunity for himself. Maybe he saw personal benefits from having force sensitive heirs he could potentially inhabit the bodies of.
@@xendordawnburst9969 I don't think any of us get much of a kick from the mental image of Palpatine removing his robe and impregnating someone. If by stomach turning, that's what you mean. XD
I think Rey levitating in the air and then just getting annoyed and gracefully jumping down is most likely the most powerful thing she's done given that we've never seen this before in the movies.
Thats what i have been saying, this is now the Palpatine Saga and episode IX is The Rise of Palpatine. We can see it now as how a villain slowly cause the downfall of the Jedi and the New Republic. We see the rise of the Empire and the fall. Cause at the end it took a Palpatine to to dethrone a Palpatine.
You hit the nail on the head with the ending. It felt more like a backhanded fan service. Personally, I think if she had answered, "Just Rey", that would have been sufficient.
NOBODY HAS MENTIONED THIS. When Rey heals Kylo's lightsaber wound, the scar on his face completely disappears. The scar was symbolic of their battle and also Kylo/Ben being "torn apart inside". I have watched so many reviews and nobody has commented on that aspect yet.
If the force healing was closer to what it used to be, and, like that one old Mando in the Legacy books, was a power that few had, and those who had it mostly just had that, I would be fine with it. Even EU Luke couldn't heal himself as well as someone like Clighal.
First of all, Happy New Year and keep up the good work! As for Rey, she did start off as a slightly OP but still compelling enough character. She fell apart in TLJ and, however her story turned out in TRoS (which I might watch some day when it comes to streaming), that outcome was not set up. Now, I managed to (finally) get around to reading Frank Herbert's Dune, completing it before year's end, and here are my thoughts on dealing with OP characters - Paul Atreides is set up from the start to be such a character, but he maintains our interest because there is a larger story surrounding his. So while he does his Gary Stuei stuff we're still interested in the larger story unfolding before our eyes, and as that story progresses we wonder how he will react. That story is what helps us not get dissuaded from reading simply because the "main protagonist" easily does this or that. What's more, the larger story requires Paul to be the way he's been built up. In the sequel trilogy the larger story is never properly set up, never elaborated on and never brought to a proper resolution, something that the previous two trilogies did not neglect. It's just about Rey who is all powerful and all capable at minutes notice, sometimes not even that. Another point that makes a lot of difference is that time passes in the book between certain key events, much more time than has passed over the course of the entire sequel trilogy. With that some of Paul's improvements are explainable by the fact that significant time has passed. Heck, there is a point of uncertainty in the book which takes three weeks to get resolved! Time also played a role in the original trilogy, and even more so in the Prequels. But here it is irrelevant until it needs to be in order to rapidly course-correct a potentially good story gone really bad. Finaly, Paul's story in the book only ends with the resolution of the larger stories. In the other two Star Wars trilogies Luke and Anakin shape the larger story with their actions and were even compelled to make decisions based on it. As you've pointed, we know nothing of the larger world by the end of TRoS compared to what we knew following TFA. Characters cannot just exist as they are independently of the world within which they were created, because then there is no story. Even cookie-cutter villains are driven by something that can be accepted as plausible for their character within their world. Rey fails even in this regard because the reason for the things she does is "because reasons". Whereas Paul's actions drive the plot of Dune, Rey's actions are just plot conveniences and even actions that have nothing to do with what should be the main plot. The rise of Rey? Hardly.
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson I though she was a Kenobi because she might be the granddaughter/grandniece to Obi-Wan. Obi wan may not be her grandfather but he might have relatives out there like cousins or siblings that might pass on the name. Plus Obi Wan fell in love during the clones wars and almost thought about leaving the Jedi Council. And wasn't said in once that Jedi aren't prohibit to love but not to form attachments. Unlike Anakin who loved Padme that it became an attachment to him and one the main reasons why he turned to the dark side.
I would have liked one of 4 things regarding Episode 9 1 Have a movie where the Knights of Ren betray Kylo in collusion with General Pryde . Ben would live as well . At the end of the film Rey would banish Ben to Tatooine for his previous crimes as Kylo Ren against the galaxy making him earn his redemption . 2 A movie where Snoke is back in they fold through one of his clones (which in this instance Snoke himself would created) seeking revenge along with the Knights of Ren . Rey and Ben win and Ben agrees to go into exile 3 Rey takes her bloodline birthrights and takes the throne from old Sheev. Ben is left distraught by this and goes back to light side fighting and killing Rey before going on to train a new generation of Jedi as a mechanism for redemption . . This is the only mechanism for me by which Palpatine should come back and by which Ben should not officially be exiled 4 Have some previously unseen on screen ancient Sith Lord come back from dead . Rey/Ben fight it together and they win but then Ben is banished for his crimes. Also if you are going to convince me about Ben's redemption let him show actually remorse for the things he he has done as Kylo Ren . Give us some PTSD type force visions of people he's killed - lets earn that redemption arc. The Reylo kiss was never earned .
She took everything from Luke. His lightsaber. His moisture farm. His name. His sunset and his theme music. Luke watching the twin suns, and the accompanying music is one of the most iconic Star Wars scenes. And they choose to end the SKYWALKER Saga with a PALPATINE taking it from him.
Speaking of Force Healing, am I the only one who always thought that Obi Wan was doing that to Luke when he touches his forehead in their first meeting?
Who is she? Well that depends entirely on the director. So who tf knows. Also I wouldn't have been mad if Rey and Ben both died and Finn ended up being the legacy holder. You want a prominent non bloodline character? There he is.
A very good review/thoughts. I still wish Rey had been a Kenbi or that he had a bigger part to play given how Obi-Wan spoke to Rey in TFA (and why would he do that if she was a Palpatine?) and even in TLJ, the clip was played saying, "help me Obi-Wan, you're our last hope." So that is a bummer for me as Obi-Wan is important part of the story as well even if he's not a powerful jedi. But overall I'm not dissatisfied on Ray's linage. I just think there could have been away to work in the Palpatine story line and why Vadar's actions didn't bring balance if TLJ had been handled differently. Instead of it being the granddaughter, (partly to get rid of the idea of "oh in the prequels we never saw him interested in a woman"), have Rey be the great granddaughter where Palpatine was a younger man and had a story similar to Ani's in losing a woman he loved in childbirth and maybe it's only after that he could "meet" Plagus. Perhaps Palpatine was away on some political meeting or something and so when he lost both the woman to death and the child somehow, his political/slith ambitions became his focus. I don't believe age is ever given and the dark force could perhaps make Palpatine appear younger than he is (if there was an issue of age and his meeting and killing his own master before the prequels). Or maybe "granddaughter" was just a term he used given the time lapse and Rey was conceived in a similar way to Ani with some of Palpatine's life force going into her so a piece of the "silth" Vadar was meant to defeat was still out there in some form. Or something like that (this is off the top of my head as I am typing so I haven't thought it all though). I am curious how would you bridge TFA and TROS if you had been able to write TLJ? I know you wrote the The Lost Jedi (which was awesome), but if TROS had to be the end of the narrative (as it's written now), how would you handle the second film.? Anyway, wonderful video as always Thor and Happy New Year :)
THANK YOU for acknowledging that Anakin was also "nobody" before being taken into the Jedi Order. I can't understand how people pretend that TLJ invented the idea that you could be powerful and come from nowhere
The more I watch this video the more I get annoyed they just made stuff happened so Ray could be all powerful and using unearned explanations from Legends continuity (clearly getting rid of legends was a mistake) doesn't justify within your own story.
At least the music is amazing. I can't stop listening to Rey's theme, so satisfying and adventurous. Thank you John Williams, that is a musical masterpiece again!
Happy new year all!! Now that I've finally seen the movie, I've got a lot of vids, Thor's and others, to catch up on...But speaking for myself, I liked it well enough. I appreciated the attempts to retcon TLJ, the overall feel and tone were much closer to what I expect from a SW film, it was filled with action and adventure, and we got to see the main characters finally interact. There were a lot of issues and problems, too, but on balance, those weren't quite enough to sink the overall package for me; but maybe I'm still reeling from the reaction to TLJ, I might shift that in time. Anywho, as a standalone movie (which all the ST basically are), it's fine, not great, but entertaining enough. As a capper to this trilogy...this trilogy has been so all over the place, that's essentailly meaningless, so N/A. As the finale of the Skywalker Saga as a whole, it doesn't stick that landing, sorry. (Love that Anakin-Ben idea, Thor!)
I'm glad to see someone else who essentially feels the same way I do. It's got lots of flaws, is not deserving to be the complete end of the Skywalker Saga, but it was decent enough in comparison to the hatred I expected to feel going it.
It would be funny that Anakin Skywalker's real father was Sheeve Palpatine all along, the entire saga was just a family infighting, and Palpatine is synonymous with Skywalker.
@@mojoarmstretch7261 yeah for me a lot of the things that went wrong in tlj can be traced back at tfa And while tlj ruined star wars legacy it was a better movie on its own
Both Ray and Ben needed to die and at the end. FIN should have been the future of the Jedi or even better the Bendu trained by a surviving Jedi established at the beginning of the story!!! The character of Ray SUCKED!!! No matter what they tried this character was damaged beyond repair due to the events of TLJ.
I wouldn't mind Rey being so powerful if it was explained in the movies. She doesn't have to be part of a well-known familyname. The fact that Rey can pilot any ship, understand all creatures and droids and doing very well inte art of the jedi (mind-trick, telekinesis and force-healing)
"I don't understand why all the hate on Ray being a Palpatine..." (Or some such) Then you go on a multipoint rant on all the valid complaints about Rey being a Palpatine. My eyeroll was audible across the room.....
"I really don’t understand the anger from some around the reveal of her being a Palpatine in The Rise of Skywalker." As in, I don't understand why some were angry that she came from a special bloodline and undid her being "no one". Because pretty much all Jedi start as "no one." That's long established. I also made no complaints against her being a Palpatine. Maybe your audible eyeroll impaired your ability to hear.
@@thorskywalker Being the granddaughter of the former emperor, a guy who can survive being at ground zero of a thermonuclear explosion and create fleets out of the soil, is hardly "no one". In a lore where force sensitivity is supposedly random, (a point you made) that she comes from force royalty irritates a lot of people (not me because Rey as a character has so many other flaws that this is just noise). In other words, I think your ability to separate your emotions is clouding your ability to make a cognitive argument.
@@sparkey6746 He means that Rey being an nobody is nothing special thus people shouldn't be crying about it, since it happens all the time in Star Wars.
Star Wars is now the story of how the Palpatines wiped out the Skywalkers and took their identity.
Yup the entire Skywalker bloodline was a tool by the Palpatines and they were discarded once their use expired, now the galaxy is truly theirs.
Exactly people underestimate the emperor. Thjs was his plan...if the Sith cant win through the darkside...he does this through the light side. He tricked the force.
There's still a Skywalker to be born tho, a bigger threat is on to do it itself
@@splashnskillz37 hmmm, who said the SKYWALKERS are gone? They came about through an anomaly without a father. Who said it can't happen again? Since the SKYWALKERS are the chosen ones then they can come back
@@armaniwebb4467 if another miraculously conceived force baby is born. Then it wouldn't be a Skywalker. It wouldn't be of the same family. Yea, it would probably be as strong, make just as significant of a bloodline. But it's still not a Skywalker.
Anakin was literally born to destroy the sith and bring balance to the force, but who ultimately did it? The f**ing granddaughter of the guy that caused the imbalance in the first place and of whom we never even knew he had children. Palpatine never wanted family. He actually killed his own parents. That story simply doesn‘t make any sense
Tbf he had his own child killed too so consistent /s
Well when you are approaching death sometimes even the most evil people have a change of heart. Except Stalin, he supposedly waved his fist at the heavens before he died....that dude died evil.
Omg, yes. Yes to all of that. Wish I could have this comment engraves onto a plaque
Anakin was probably a false prophet created by Palpatine to fool the Jedi. "A prophecy that misread could have been."
You really think the emperor didn’t have call girls ? Lol also wasn’t the bald chick with him in ROTS his lover?
You rolled your eyes when Rey healed the serpent
I rolled my eyes through the whole movie that when I walked out I was practically cross eyed
I roll my eyes and laugh reading listening to losers watching these movies when SWTFA SHOWED what KK Abrams & Disney were going to do to the original trilogy.
No amount of Thor's asskissing logic fairness justifies this shit to waste money & time watching this.
I bet this what Disney wanted lol
I rolled my eyes at the leaks and decided not to waste my time or money on this movie.
I was constantly leaning back in my seat after cringing from some stupidity that the movie committed, so much so that the guy next to actually asked me to stop. This movie was a travesty.
I was so crossed eye that this movie fixed it. It's still bad though.
Finn: "REY!!!"
Rey: "What?!"
Finn: "Whooooo!"
"Hey John, could you just yell a few more words for us? Thanks" - Literally his whole character
Whooooooooooo!
...Wait.
*WHERE'S REY?*
mysterywhiteboy72 That’s it in a nutshell.
>humanize Storm Troopers and show that they aren’t all bloodlusting murderers
>have Finn yell “wooo” a lot while mowing them down
Plz pick one JJ
That's why John Boyega left his script under a hotel bed.
"So if you haven't seen the movie yet, and you don't want it ruined..." Ruined you say? Pretty sure JJ and KK took care of that on their own.
I'm like please sir spoil every little details, I don't care any more.
I know, right? I’d say that this whole trilogy has been ruined from day one.
It was fine... until the interrogation, no download scene. :)
Random woman: who are you?
Rey: I’m Rey
Random woman: Rey, who
Rey: *pauses... Rey...d shadow legends is one of the most ambiti...
Even L.B first like on this soon to be bumping comment!
Lmao
Rey: "FORGET EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!"
Lmao
I really wish she had gone, “I’m Rey... _Palpatine”_ and then just turned and force lightinged the lady and her weird horse into charred embers as the screen faded to black
Spethman Jones
*UNLIMITED POWER*
that random lady: who are you?
Rey: Im Bond. Rey Bond
Studio Šrauf'n Cingr I’m Sue, Mary Sue!
"Who are you?" "Rey Sue. Rey Mary Sue."
And of course she will be the best 007 agent even without training. In fact she will be so good she will be promoted to 008.
/puts on sunglasses/
*sponsored by RayBan*
@@SrMissileMonkey 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
After the reveal of who she is related to, im more confused why the Skywalker saber "calls" to her?
I was confused merely because I never saw Palpatine as the type to get in a relationship of familiarity, or even abuse. He only sought the Dark Side, only sought to have its power flowing through him! But you, my friend... you've brought a fascinating question to the table!
Because they originally planned for her to be a Skywalker, but TLJ ruined JJs outline, so they had to call an audible and make her a Palpatine. Of course, it ruins the saga since that means the Skywalkers are wiped out and a Palpatine, who steals the Skywalker name, is all thats left.
What's funny is the plot twist isn't that Rey is a Palpatine, its that Palpatine had a kids, thats even more shocking then who Rey is.
@@inspectorwhoreacts naw makes sense. Rule the galaxy with power I don't think women can rent you
A good question for another time.
It would have been a far more satisfying end to Kylo’s story if he had actually helped kill Palpatine. It would have been poetic because he would have finished what Vader started. The final destruction of the Sith.
Totally agree. I already wished Ben had a hand in finishing palpatine, but *damn*, the poetic irony of that phrase--and JJ passed it up. Damn shame.
Basteala It really is sad because Kylo barely worked as a villain if at all and he doesn’t get to be much of a hero at the end.
Kylo should have consistently been Rey’s superior in both combat and the force until the final movie where she has finally reached his level or at the very least somewhat close to it, she never should have had God Mode unlocked for herself from the very start of this trilogy.
Even in TROS, she shouldn't be any where near Kylo's level. Kylo has trained his entire life under both Luke and then Snoak. Rey "Trained" for one year under Leia...
@@Prophecy6 Luke had like one or two years of training and still beat Vader in Return of the Jedi; that doesn't necessarily make much sense but it works.
She got her ass beat by Kylo in ep 9
@@SteelFyire Vader beat Luke in the first duel, Luke spent 4-5 years out fighting a rebellion. Vader's head was not in it, the goal was always to turn Luke not to kill him.
Time passed between movies, we know that and we've also seen that there was enough time for Luke to significantly progress his force powers. Probably because he's been out training all this time. So it does make sense, not that you want to admit that.
@@AntoineVello Vader still had decades of experience over Luke, and that bit about wanting to turn Luke to the dark side also applies for Kylo.
I don't disagree that it was stupid that Rey was able to beat Kylo in the Force Awakens; that was part of why Kylo was never going to be able to stand on his own as the main villain of the sequel trilogy.
Rey is Kathleen Kennedy's wish fulfillment.
in the first draft, Rey's chareacter was named Kay.
I believe it was Kira
@ShenmueAtheist
Yeah...Seems legit.
@@leahvolmer9210 I believe I pulled that up from my head.
I'd say Holdo is that, more than any other. Holdo is basically Kennedy herself forcefully breaking the fourth wall in reverse.
"That's not how the Force works!" is the line that sums up the sequel trilogy, for me.
"I'm Rey"
"Rey who?"
"Reytcon"
"I am Rey"
"Rey who?"
"Rey Mysterio!"
@@johannesseyfried7933 Booyaka booyaka 619!!
It honestly would have made more sense for Rey to take the Solo name. She had the most connection with Han, even viewing him a father figure.
She wouldn't have to take the name, it would just be assigned to her when she went to an airport or enlisted in something and didn't have a last name. That's what happened to Han in the first place after all.
Thats too much for the direction to think.
Isn’t that how Han got his last name? Just Han. Very well Han Solo.
For fucking real
God, they tried to establish so many fucking relationships with the old characters and none of them stuck. And then the one that had a lot of chemistry, Rey and Finn, got thrown into the dumpster for god knows what reason.
JJ Abrams: Makes a big mystery box over who Rey and her parents are.
Fans speculate about Rey
Rian Johnson: Throws it out the window and says Rey is nobody.
Fans divide over was that a good move or not
JJ Abrams: pulls his mystery box out of the trash can and so overcorrects in fan fiction levels of writing that Rey becomes supreme goddess of the universe with no flaws and all the powers, assets, and makes Anakin Skywalker’s story amount to dead wamp rats
@@nathanmorgan3647
One wanted to go for a slow-burn, the other wanted fallout.
I didn't feel anything when that film ended.
I just didn't care anymore.
Rey taking the last name of Skywalker was just one more thing she stole from better characters.
Random lady: Who are you?
Rey: I'm Rey... maRey Sue
Skywalker saga -> no skywalker remain, a girl from nowhere steals their last name for some bizarre reason
Thor Skywalker, Rey now being a "Palpatine" just like that ruins a lot of things:
*a)* it was poorly established and executed with no proper build up to it, like we still don't even know who her parents are;
*b)* it goes against the nature and philosophy of the Sith, which are incapable of love and don't start families to produce Sith heirs, but rather search for potential ones all across the galaxy as they always did;
*c)* it goes against the very personality of Sidious himself, who killed his entire familiy in falling to the Dark Side when he was very young and isn't exactly the person who would start his own family;
*d)* it destroys the importance of the Skywalker bloodline and the importance of Anakin being the Chosen One, since at the end it is Rey who defeats Sidious, not Anakin;
*You simply can't justify poor writing and character development, or force things to make any sense when they don't!*
To play devil's advocate a *little*, the Sith aren't big on love, but they're /more/ against mercy, which they find far worse than love. Passion is also all you really need to make a kid, and the Sith are all about that.
But it was poorly executed. That's absolutely true. It definitely mars the prophecy too, if you're big on that.
@@basteala525 now there's someone who did their homework!
>>a) it was poorly established and executed with no proper build up to it, like we still don't even know who her parents are;
@@brianschwartz7356 i agree! From the start there was a lot of potential to her character, but then KK activated the "Force is whamen" card and then... shits hit the fan!
e) The issues of Rey's parents was supposed to be settled in TLJ. Bringing back the issue in TROS just wasted time and added little to nothing to her character. Time wasted revisiting the issue could have been spent developing the plot or her character. Instead Rey spends the WHOLE TRILOGY not knowing who she is
f) It DOES ruin the reveal from TLJ, because her origin as a palatine actually has LESS impact than the reveal that her parents were nobodies. The Nobody status of her parents not only meant that she was a nobody, but it also meant that she was unloved and ABANDONED on Jakku; all the hope she had that her parents would one day come back was a lie and a waste. Its was a very cruel and cold truth. Finding out that her parents actually cared about her and had a reason to leave her on Jakku because of her big bad Grandpa, actually has LESS impact for her as a character
Palpatine couldn't stop the flow of lightning. I guess it was like trying to stop peeing mid stream?
I have the power to stop peeing mid stream
He's more than 100 years old, you know.
Corrado Laposta
What, you think the most powerful Sith in existence can’t stop his pee mid stream?
It's like a race car slamming the brakes.
Quasi Creator I honestly don't think he'd have proper bladder control at that age
Rey is the textbook Copycat Sue like in bad fanfic, in this movie too.
She is not just the better, more powerful Luke version, but also Han (his gun, ship and lapdog Wookie) and Leia (her empathy, saber and leadership). Finally she even takes over Anakin's chosen one role by bringing final balance to the Force (destroying Palpatine) which Anakin evidently failed with...
Further, everybody from friends to enemies tell her she is the best and most important. Her powers reach god mode level here, forcing ships out of orbit, Force teleportation, Force lightning, Force healing the dead and Force skyping (I thought the latter killed bums like Luke) - in short, she gets any ability she needs to look good. Finally, she even takes over the heroes name and home.
There is a petition to rebrand the Sue trope into Ma-Rey Sue, would make perfect sense.
Hold on, force teleportation? Force revival? I need to see this.
Ma-Rey sounds forced, can we just say Rey Sue?
force healing and force lightning are two of the most broken abillitys in Star Wars to randomly give Rey both with no explanation makes her more over powered here. You also forget her floating ability, first time we've seen floating in the movies and god tier sailing skills.
The floating scene was completely unnecesary tbh
SHE HAS A VAGINA! SHE CAN DO ANYTHING!/s
Fallopian force powers
Yoda trained Luke to float on Dagobah
@@CamGold he never floated
Thor Skywalker "I don't have a problem with Rey taking the Skywalker name!" I sense a bias here, though I don't where. LoL.
The person who should've asked who Rey was should've been elderly Watto.
"Who are you?"
"Rey, Skywalker"
"So do you want some podracing parts?"
Ah yes. But I think that the line should have been "So do you want-a some podracing parts?"
A palpatine takes...correction...steals Luke's saber, droids, home, his best friend's ship and finally rubs insult to injury by stealing his name too.. Rey is nothing more than the President of Lucasfilm using her authority to defile the legacy of George Lucas.
It is almost impossible to view this character in a non-meta view. she's so OP and bland that she cannot fit into the narrative without taking the viewer out of any immersion they have in this story. The attempts made in this movie to give her an arc seem too forced and cliched. Even if we make a stretch to think that she learnt force healing from ancient Jedi texts, it doesn't help that her telekinesis is beyond ridiculous for anyone, even an OP Palpatine. It also doesn't help that Luke stating that he and Leia knew she was a Palpatine since TLJ only makes the entire Ach Too plot of that movie worse. There are so many unanswered questions, like why did a "Skywalker" lightsaber call out to a Palpatine? Why did she not see Palpie in that dark side well / cave in TLJ? How doesn't Snoke realise who she was? So on and so forth..
Overall, Rey is a blight on Star Wars and entertainment overall whose creation and existence in the Star Wars canon only serves as a reminder of the power abuse by egomaniacs like Kennedy. It should serve as a lesson for "pitfalls of bad writing and author inserts - in this case, a corporate overlord insert"
She is not a Jedi by any acceptable definition of that term in Star Wars lore. Probably my most despised character in the new trilogy.
"Probably my most despised character in the new trilogy"
¿More than Rose Tico?
That´s an achievement by its own right XD
I dont know why people despise characters like this. Its more confusing for me, rather than making me hate the character, i think they make no sense.
@@Daishi18 yes, Rose's influence was limited to TLJ, whereas Rey destroys the entire series with her unbelievable powers. Continuity is obliterated!
@@dorianleakey i wouldn't care for this character or her story either, if it wasn't inserted into the core star wars story / lore. If it was a fan fic or "legends" character, I'd not be bothered at all.
I think the real reason why Rey can’t be a skywalker is because she doesn’t hate sand like Anakin.
Of course. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Much like those who would want TLJ to be better reviewed because it promotes a message people want said, rather than being an actually profitable piece of entertainment.
The most powerful Rey power was her stealing the Skywalker's Identity.
When I think about Rey the character, it is very difficult now for me to separate her from the Kathleen Kennedy issue anointing her before the movie even came out. It tainted her development. Also, the inconsistency with her powerful force abilities compared to all other Jedi pulls me out of the land of make believe and into the real world wondering why the directors couldn't be more consistent with past Star Wars films. I see her as a puppet with Kennedy's hand inside. And it's a shame because I actually really liked Rey at the start of Force Awakens and I enjoy Daisy Ridley's performance. I think she was a great choice as an actress and had the makings of a great Jedi character...but was mishandled by the puppeteers after she was taken prisoner by Kylo Ren in TFA.
Rey always beating Kylo is like saying a random person who doesn't play sports beats an Olympian on the first run due to "natural talent." Talent isn't a replacement for hard work.
It's hilarious that Disney had the arrogance to think they could improvise a Star Wars trilogy.
The thing is that the Marvel devision got away with it so disney thought they could do it with star wars and has we can see it failed.
I would argue that Marvel had more consistent vision for the MCU, whether people like the MCU as a product or dislike it compared to the comics--which, while we're on the subject, are a parallel universe rather than retconned.
Reinventing the wheel might've worked for Marvel, but Lucasfilm did nothing Marvel did in order to make it work.
I still don't know what they were thinking. They didn't even tried to be consistent. It's fucking Star Wars, for god sake. PUT SOME EFFORT!
So why does rey deserve to be a skywalker again?
Good question.....
Better than being part of Palpatine’s family.
@@ejnova7215 For another time 😁
Pretty obvious, She and her family took part in killing every Skywalker. Skywalker lose, so the name is there for the taken.
Because all this character is good for is taking things from better characters.
After the sequel trilogy finished it’s never been more obvious. This trilogy literally didn’t even need to happen. It accomplished absolutely nothing.
Not only that, it undermines what cams before
Funny of you to assume I'll watch the movie 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It was spoiled when they made it.
Watch the movie
"Rey"
"Rey who?"
Looks into the distance wistfully
"Reyp the corpse of Star Wars"
This. This pleases me 😂
Luke: The force isn't about your bloodline! You'll be a great Jedi even without some lineage.
Rey: iM rEY SKyWalkER
Wow.. this new trilogy is boring! Pointless and boring. In my headcanon Luke trained new jedi and they were the ones with adventures! The end.
You might get a TV show about that.
Alex Chaudhari I hope so
@Super JLK childless isn't a big problem cuz that's how Jedi are usually
@Super JLK Monks and priests don't have children. That's who the Jedi are meant to be an equivalent to.
@@darthtroller Read the Books it's one of the best parts. Mara Jade was one of the best characters...
Luke: Identity theft is not a joke, Rey!
Thrawn trilogy is a hundred times more interesting, purposeful, intriguing and well written than the Mary Sue saga.
The Disney sequel is crappy EU and i wont ever change my mind about that.
YOOOOO! I just re-read the book Rogue Squadron from the X-wing series, and in that book was a BEAUTIFUL example of why a Y-Wing Bombing run would win ANY FREAKING DAY!!!! Over the TRAVESTY that was Rian Johnson's bombing run in TLJ...
Comments like this restore my faith in the fanbase
The problem with adapting the Thrawn trilogy is that it takes place shortly after the original trilogy. They waited thirty years. They waited too long -- assuming they wanted to use the same actors.
I just finished the Thrawn Trilogy last week. I absolutely loved it. Although I did find the ending a bit... meh. But damn can Timothy Zahn write.
Hold on! Rey is not a Mary Sue.
At the end of the day, this has destroyed the entire first six episodes and made them pointless. KK has retconned so 1 to 6 just so a woman could do what a man already did. Rise of Skywalker is a meaningless title.
As usual Thor, you seem to get out of your way to be fair and to do justice to most every point of view. But in my opinion you are overestimating the possibility of fixing the sequel trilogy's problems with tiny edits. It's been stylisticaly designed to be that way. And you can't undo that!
Seems passive aggressive to me.
@@fightingmedialounge519 But did you know that the last two sentences are direct quotations from George Lucas, talking about The Phantom Menace?
P.S. It should go without saying that i would absolutely LOVE to see George Lucas's and JJ Abrams's cuts.
I've never liked Rey, and I never will. They wiped Mara out of the canon for this?
She should’ve said: “Rey Solo” at the end. Change my mind.
Huh.. that would make sense.. That would have multiple meanings to it. Yeah, she took on a name from her mentor but, it also means that she is on her own, she is the one and only Rey, basically Solo. And as we know the name was given to Han for being on his own.
Rey Organa.
Gundislav , that seems the second best option to me. Rey is no politician, and she is no general. If she developed a bond with Leia, we didn’t see it, and it will likely be something that turns up in supplementary content. But she could take that name with aspirations to be those things, I suppose.
To me, though, “Solo” seems to work better because of her bond with Ben, her association with Han, and her backstory.
Maybe it’s not as tidy as “Skywalker” or as aspirational as “Organa,” but I guess it doesn’t really matter. Doubt we’ll see Rey in another movie any time soon.
Agree with you, though the Reylo kissing scene shouldn't exist for that to work (but that kind of goes without saying, that was a really poor decision imo).
When she’s freaking floating and meditating with those rocks and then floats down. That pissed me off.
And with the flip for that extra salt
Really? That pissed you off? Who the fuck cares legit every part of canon shows Jedi’s floating while meditating . EU and new canon
dannyhuskerjay yes it did. Because all it was doing was rubbing in how OP this character was who had no reason or business being that powerful at this point in her career. Maybe 20 years down the line. But not now.
Vortex Flash lol floating yourself is not seen as a giant feet in Star Wars cmon now 😂. I think we seen in canon Luke in ROTJ could float meditate .
dannyhuskerjay No not in ROTJ. That never happened. And floating while moving all those stones around? That takes a supreme amount of effort and concentration. I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m saying that after only a year of “training” from Leia who never completed training under Luke who didn’t have any formal training either. All the stuff Rey does means that Leia knew how. And given the short span of time she did train she would’ve NEVER learned all of that stuff so quickly. It took Luke 3 years to learn how to pull a lightsaber to his hand. This should not be possible for any force user, regardless of lineage or midichlorian count so early in training. Z
13:12, 13:40 -
The answer to "Who is Rey?"
to quote Edward Blake,
*_"It's all a F==king JOKE."_*
At this point how can anyone still claim Rey is not a fully-fledged textbook Mary Sue is honestly beyond me.
Honestly, anyone arguing that after episode 7 when she defeated Kylo with no force training is fucking delusional.
The bloodline thing is one of the reasons why I love Theron Shan and (the idea of, since we never really get to meet him) Vaner Shan. They come from such a powerful family, with powerful parent(s), and yet they are both just normal, non Force sensative, men who still manage to find ways to have a profound impact on the galaxy (spy and Supreme Chancelor respectively).
I've said it before I'll say it again: I don't like Rey being from a famous family. Not because I think she stands for anyone being a Jedi (prequels do that fine), but because it honestly makes the galaxy so immensely SMALL.
So many worlds filled with literal billions of people. Only 2 families really matter for the fate of it all. If we had an instance of that in real life it would just be silly.
Also Disney had to pull a big retcon so that the kiss wouldn't signal galactic banjos.
Galaxy spanning is so small in Star Wars that incest happens. God that makes everything feel so small....
This whole saga was literally suppose to be the story of one family across the generations. Its called the Skywalker saga for a reason. Because it's all about that family. The focus is small because you're telling THEIR story. They're the focus. And even in that, we've had plenty of heroes whose families we knew nothing about. Especially in the prequels. So we already know you don't have to come from a special family to be powerful.
@@noelcrenshaw7969 It's the Star Wars Saga. Always was. "Skywalker Saga" is an empty marketing term.
@@MauiDave74 Im pretty sure George was the one who said that he was telling the story of the Skywalker family. I'd wager that makes it a little more than just a meaningless marketing term. Well, that and the fact that the first six movies were literally all about the impact of the Skywalker family on the galaxy. And that everything that happened centered around them.
@@noelcrenshaw7969 You're missing the point. Yes, the story was about Anakin and Luke, but the term "Skywalker Saga" is an empty marketing term. George has never used it. Heck, even Howard Roffman never used it. It was always referred officially as the Star Wars Saga. It's like the absurd, Age of Republic, Age of Rebellion, Age of Resistance junk. So awful, it's obvious that some marketing hack came up with it.
@@MauiDave74 Making her powerful was an stupid mistake. If they just made her power level normal they wouldn't have needed an explanation for how strong she was in the first place.
SHE CAN FLY NOW!
That intro scene where she's mid-air, meditating on the force, and has rocks revolving around her... She brings her consciousness back to "now", flips in the air and gently floats down to the ground.
After seeing that, I knew exactly what type of film it was going to be.
A plot armor character. Also Happy New Years, Thor; everyone.
Happy New decade
The decade of redemption begins
@@splashnskillz37 Have You Ever The Tragedy Of The Old Decade The Bad?
@@splashnskillz37 The 2020s: The Era of Clear Sight!
Good characters will have some sort of plot armor at certain times, but making plot armor a main character is bad.
Force Healing was part of the canon prior to The Mandalorian and Rise of Skywalker; the Mortis story arc in The Clone Wars where The Daughter gives up her life to revive Ashoka. As for Rey, I still see her as a Mary-sue. While I'll give Abrams credit for giving Rey flaws, those flaws do not carry any weight. Also everyone wants her on their side because of her God-like powers. So essentially she was a God-sue who got everything handed to her just because of Kennedy's agenda outside the film.
"I'm Rey"
"Rey...who?"
...
"Rey...just Rey"...
See how this would've been way more Powerful because we already had this one. First She wasn't sure, frustrated...now, she can proudly say she's just Rey
Wait, Kylo finally wins one? I'm starting to look forward to watching this eventually. Shame that there's no way to fix the truly wasted Captain Phasma.
Pirate the movie like I did
@@vandergraff1123 I don't care how much I might dislike a film, I'm not going to break the law because of it.
Trey Bolick Heh, loser
What Disney did to star wars is way more criminal than streaming a movie. Get of your high Tauntaun.
@@tessbolick6605 Bravo, what a righteous hero! taking a stand against those mean ole' pirates!
"Anakin didn't come from a powerful bloodline" bruh, he is the start of the bloodline
She’s a Rey Palpatine and elects to call herself Rey Skywalker but everyone else refers to her at Ma-Rey Sue
MaRey Suewalker.
The sequel trilogy was such a mess
@C J they figured because it says Star Wars people will eat it up regardless, they not wrong
At least the prequels knew what they were trying to achieve.
@C J because they think people are stupid. They thought of they just slap Star and wars on something the masses would flock, sadly they were not totally wrong,
The Rise of "God Mode Always On".
Enjoy your new kind of movies.
#GODMODE
Can we just pretend that this Trilogy never happened and that Rey is Jaina and Ben is Jacen...
Yeah. Jaina kills Jacen anyways.
Many fans are doing exactly that.
The Rise of Palpy
We need an in-depth breakdown this was palps plan.
Empire falls >> Plothole >> Survives >> Polthole >> Plothole >> Makes fleet >> Plothole >> Marysue kills him.
#CONVINIENCE
I loved Rey. I was mesmerized with her introduction on tfa and i was eager to know more about her in the following movies. Going into episode 7 i was ready to move on with the old characters, i only wanted the movies to give respect to them and then take us with some (loosely related to the original trio) new characters into a new adventure.
Unlike most people, and despite the fact i think its a flawed movie noneless, i walked out the last jedi very satisfied with the fact of Rey being nobody. Although i was starting to get annoyed with the lack of logical explanation for her powers and the lack of struggle started to become boring.
I wanted to wait until this trilogy ended to give my final thoughts on the character and now i can regretfuly say i hate Rey Skywalker :( im sorry, i really dislike what they did with the sequel trilogy. I had a swell time watching them but at the end of it all i think it was such a waste of everybodys time and money. Both the prequels and the OT were movies that stuck with me forever, for better or worse, flaws and all. I dont think we'll be talking about the sequel trilogy that much in the future
Same here. I loved her character until they have ruined everything in this last episode...
I'd recommend watching David Stewart's videos here on UA-cam about the Sequels and he really goes deep into the story elements of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy and made video basically describing the Sequel Trilogy as like dream where you go through moments in Star Wars, but being a dream not everything is going to be exactly the same. Rey is effectively the audience Avatar throughout this trilogy and why she is a Mary Sue. While I was watching The Force Awakens the way she reacted in excitement of everything seemed like how a Star Wars fan would react to it all. Rey goes through all the familiar story beats, meets all the fan favorites and is liked by them and even surpasses them. Hell she, or better put you have a noble sacrifice, but being dead isn't fun so you come back to life to live in the Galaxy far far away and is effectively the center of the universe. Like a dream the Sequel Trilogy movies don't feel like a cohesive narrative, but a serious of familiar moments strung together. It all comes off as a bad fanfiction.
Another great point he makes is how each movie is dominated by a meta-narrative. The Force Awakens is dominated by indulging in nostalgia of the Originals and rejection of the Prequels, The Last Jedi is dominated by a rejection of all of Star Wars popular tropes and rejection of The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker is dominated by nostalgia again, but no is rejecting The Last Jedi. Instead of continuing the story logically instead they are too self aware and not only that each Sequel Trilogy movie is rejecting past movies and each other.
It also reminds me of a video by Comics Matter aka Diversity and Comics, aka Ya Boi Zack, aka Richard C. Meyer who made a point about Girls Toys and Boys Toys and that Boys aspire to be the Toys they play with. He wants to be He-Man, Duke, Optimus Prime, Han Solo. Where as girls project themselves into the toys they play with, that Barbie is them. So basically the idea is that the audience member particularly women see themselves in Rey. It's why here design doesn't change a lot between movie's to remain familiar. We she has no flaws because your suppose to be Rey and you don't want to ever be belittled, insulted, or defeated. You don't want to be told you're a flawed person.
It's amazing how spot on & thoughtful your analysis is. Thank you so much for your channel and I hope you have a much deserved HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Rey...biggest missed opportunity in all of Star Wars. Great actress...interesting enough backstory. But, ultimately, a hollow character that navigates her way through the narrative of three movies by basically being told where to go the whole time. They wanted a strong female character...they wrote a puppet.
A puppet that falls in love with the villain. Apparently that is what qualifies as a strong female character these days.
@@Anwell100 it's just so amazing how hard they failed at making her her own person and a strong female character at the same time
You forgot her levitating and so gracefully landing, holding up rocks (though, not as many as in TLJ), healing Kylo from near death (apparently through life force transference, but she doesn't seem affected by it at all), the pulling down the shuttle before frying it, she can have duels across time and space and even teleport items into other people's hands. IDK. She seemed mysteriously powerful in TFA. She seemed comically OP in TLJ. In TROS, she feels like a straight up superhero to me.
And, despite them attempting to give her some "trials" she felt more like a Mary Sue than ever to me. Her self doubt didn't seem sincere at all because she was doubting for the first time while also being more powerful than ever. Everyone new immediately thought she was awesome. The Emperor wanted her to take his place. She gets defeated by Kylo, but then actually defeats him when he's distracted, then she makes him good. She dies but then he gives his life for her. She drops a tree on BB-8 to show she's failable, but it's okay. He's fine. Poe gets mad at her for being the best there is. It's fine. Everything is just... fine. JJ realized she should have her own lightsaber and she had plenty of time to make her own, but he's too upset with the saber that should have stayed lost decades ago being meaningful, so he waited until the end of the movie to not show her making one that she may not even need now. This entire movie is just so... dumb. This trilogy was so pointless and, even worse, was led by two directors that seemingly politely despised each other's movies. We live in the bad timeline for Star Wars.
She's a goddess who one shot everyone and beat the antagonist ine the 1st movie lol, worst character ever
I miss Kreia and Vaylin
It's fucking hilarious that a franchise with an amazing female character like Kreia somehow needed a "STRONG WOMYN" like Rey. Like seriously, 3 minutes of Kreia talking shit about you did more for Star Wars than 3 whole movies with Rey being a self-insert.
Rey taking the Skywalker name was the final nail in the coffin that is the Skywalker saga.
The reason why I'm disappointed that Rey is a Palpatine has nothing to do with her parents... but with Palpatine! How can a power hungry person, seeking nothing but unlimited power and immortality, displaying no interest in familiarity beyond tempting Anakin into becoming Vader, suddenly desire to become intimate with a woman! Palpatine never struck me as one who would seek the company of a spouse, nor as one who would seek the pleasure through abuse! All he desired was the Dark Side, all he wanted was to feel the power of the Dark Side flowing through him! Being a father, or having a wife or concubine does not make sense!
To be fair, Palpatine sees everything as an opportunity for himself. Maybe he saw personal benefits from having force sensitive heirs he could potentially inhabit the bodies of.
@@ominouspigeonmaster1571 I suppose that's possible. Still, really turns my stomach thinking of it.
@@xendordawnburst9969 I don't think any of us get much of a kick from the mental image of Palpatine removing his robe and impregnating someone.
If by stomach turning, that's what you mean. XD
Force healing? Where did that come from? “That is a great question, for another time.”
Rey Solo would have been better as Rey had stronger relationships with Han, Leia, and Ben. Rey Organa would work too as an honor to Leia
I think Rey levitating in the air and then just getting annoyed and gracefully jumping down is most likely the most powerful thing she's done given that we've never seen this before in the movies.
Thats what i have been saying, this is now the Palpatine Saga and episode IX is The Rise of Palpatine. We can see it now as how a villain slowly cause the downfall of the Jedi and the New Republic. We see the rise of the Empire and the fall. Cause at the end it took a Palpatine to to dethrone a Palpatine.
You hit the nail on the head with the ending. It felt more like a backhanded fan service. Personally, I think if she had answered, "Just Rey", that would have been sufficient.
It’s not the Rise Of Rey, it’s the Rise Of Ben Solo
Ben Skywalker
NOBODY HAS MENTIONED THIS. When Rey heals Kylo's lightsaber wound, the scar on his face completely disappears. The scar was symbolic of their battle and also Kylo/Ben being "torn apart inside". I have watched so many reviews and nobody has commented on that aspect yet.
I like the idea of force healing, it just needs to be used sparingly. This is where the ros went wrong. it demystifies the force
Rey doesn't finish as a hero, she finishes as an identity-thieving sociopath.
If the force healing was closer to what it used to be, and, like that one old Mando in the Legacy books, was a power that few had, and those who had it mostly just had that, I would be fine with it. Even EU Luke couldn't heal himself as well as someone like Clighal.
First of all, Happy New Year and keep up the good work!
As for Rey, she did start off as a slightly OP but still compelling enough character. She fell apart in TLJ and, however her story turned out in TRoS (which I might watch some day when it comes to streaming), that outcome was not set up.
Now, I managed to (finally) get around to reading Frank Herbert's Dune, completing it before year's end, and here are my thoughts on dealing with OP characters - Paul Atreides is set up from the start to be such a character, but he maintains our interest because there is a larger story surrounding his. So while he does his Gary Stuei stuff we're still interested in the larger story unfolding before our eyes, and as that story progresses we wonder how he will react. That story is what helps us not get dissuaded from reading simply because the "main protagonist" easily does this or that. What's more, the larger story requires Paul to be the way he's been built up. In the sequel trilogy the larger story is never properly set up, never elaborated on and never brought to a proper resolution, something that the previous two trilogies did not neglect. It's just about Rey who is all powerful and all capable at minutes notice, sometimes not even that.
Another point that makes a lot of difference is that time passes in the book between certain key events, much more time than has passed over the course of the entire sequel trilogy. With that some of Paul's improvements are explainable by the fact that significant time has passed. Heck, there is a point of uncertainty in the book which takes three weeks to get resolved! Time also played a role in the original trilogy, and even more so in the Prequels. But here it is irrelevant until it needs to be in order to rapidly course-correct a potentially good story gone really bad.
Finaly, Paul's story in the book only ends with the resolution of the larger stories. In the other two Star Wars trilogies Luke and Anakin shape the larger story with their actions and were even compelled to make decisions based on it. As you've pointed, we know nothing of the larger world by the end of TRoS compared to what we knew following TFA.
Characters cannot just exist as they are independently of the world within which they were created, because then there is no story. Even cookie-cutter villains are driven by something that can be accepted as plausible for their character within their world. Rey fails even in this regard because the reason for the things she does is "because reasons". Whereas Paul's actions drive the plot of Dune, Rey's actions are just plot conveniences and even actions that have nothing to do with what should be the main plot.
The rise of Rey? Hardly.
Seriously i thought she was a Kenobi in TFA
I could believe that.
All those years on that desert planet, Obi Must've got some ass once or twice.
Too young to be his daughter, if that's what you mean.
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson hypocrite like Anakin?!
@@burningsodium I was thinking granddaughter
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson I though she was a Kenobi because she might be the granddaughter/grandniece to Obi-Wan. Obi wan may not be her grandfather but he might have relatives out there like cousins or siblings that might pass on the name. Plus Obi Wan fell in love during the clones wars and almost thought about leaving the Jedi Council. And wasn't said in once that Jedi aren't prohibit to love but not to form attachments. Unlike Anakin who loved Padme that it became an attachment to him and one the main reasons why he turned to the dark side.
"I'm Rey"
"Rey Who?"
"REY-LEASE THE TICO CUT"
I would have liked one of 4 things regarding Episode 9
1 Have a movie where the Knights of Ren betray Kylo in collusion with General Pryde . Ben would live as well . At the end of the film Rey would banish Ben to Tatooine for his previous crimes as Kylo Ren against the galaxy making him earn his redemption .
2 A movie where Snoke is back in they fold through one of his clones (which in this instance Snoke himself would created) seeking revenge along with the Knights of Ren . Rey and Ben win and Ben agrees to go into exile
3 Rey takes her bloodline birthrights and takes the throne from old Sheev. Ben is left distraught by this and goes back to light side fighting and killing Rey before going on to train a new generation of Jedi as a mechanism for redemption . . This is the only mechanism for me by which Palpatine should come back and by which Ben should not officially be exiled
4 Have some previously unseen on screen ancient Sith Lord come back from dead . Rey/Ben fight it together and they win but then Ben is banished for his crimes.
Also if you are going to convince me about Ben's redemption let him show actually remorse for the things he he has done as Kylo Ren . Give us some PTSD type force visions of people he's killed - lets earn that redemption arc. The Reylo kiss was never earned .
She took everything from Luke. His lightsaber. His moisture farm. His name. His sunset and his theme music. Luke watching the twin suns, and the accompanying music is one of the most iconic Star Wars scenes. And they choose to end the SKYWALKER Saga with a PALPATINE taking it from him.
Speaking of Force Healing, am I the only one who always thought that Obi Wan was doing that to Luke when he touches his forehead in their first meeting?
Nope, that’s sexist
I didn't think he was healing Luke, but rather sensing Luke's condition, both physically and mentally.
@@Sum1BetrThanU1 Just why?
@@xendordawnburst9969 Now I've got it!
Jordi Studios Thor is still talking Star Wars when he should be reviewing little women.
The Last Desendend of a Slave Woman from Tatooine = Kicked in the Hole, while the Final Battle is between the Palpatine Dynasty.
Who is she? Well that depends entirely on the director. So who tf knows. Also I wouldn't have been mad if Rey and Ben both died and Finn ended up being the legacy holder. You want a prominent non bloodline character? There he is.
I fully agree and Sheev is now only one who live (in Rey) and know that Tatooine is a home of Anakin Skywalker..
A very good review/thoughts. I still wish Rey had been a Kenbi or that he had a bigger part to play given how Obi-Wan spoke to Rey in TFA (and why would he do that if she was a Palpatine?) and even in TLJ, the clip was played saying, "help me Obi-Wan, you're our last hope." So that is a bummer for me as Obi-Wan is important part of the story as well even if he's not a powerful jedi.
But overall I'm not dissatisfied on Ray's linage. I just think there could have been away to work in the Palpatine story line and why Vadar's actions didn't bring balance if TLJ had been handled differently. Instead of it being the granddaughter, (partly to get rid of the idea of "oh in the prequels we never saw him interested in a woman"), have Rey be the great granddaughter where Palpatine was a younger man and had a story similar to Ani's in losing a woman he loved in childbirth and maybe it's only after that he could "meet" Plagus. Perhaps Palpatine was away on some political meeting or something and so when he lost both the woman to death and the child somehow, his political/slith ambitions became his focus. I don't believe age is ever given and the dark force could perhaps make Palpatine appear younger than he is (if there was an issue of age and his meeting and killing his own master before the prequels).
Or maybe "granddaughter" was just a term he used given the time lapse and Rey was conceived in a similar way to Ani with some of Palpatine's life force going into her so a piece of the "silth" Vadar was meant to defeat was still out there in some form. Or something like that (this is off the top of my head as I am typing so I haven't thought it all though).
I am curious how would you bridge TFA and TROS if you had been able to write TLJ? I know you wrote the The Lost Jedi (which was awesome), but if TROS had to be the end of the narrative (as it's written now), how would you handle the second film.?
Anyway, wonderful video as always Thor and Happy New Year :)
In all honesty Rey's arc doesn't feel earned. So sad to see another beautiful universe of amazing characters fall down this much.
Star Wars: Rise of Palatine.
THANK YOU for acknowledging that Anakin was also "nobody" before being taken into the Jedi Order. I can't understand how people pretend that TLJ invented the idea that you could be powerful and come from nowhere
The more I watch this video the more I get annoyed they just made stuff happened so Ray could be all powerful and using unearned explanations from Legends continuity (clearly getting rid of legends was a mistake) doesn't justify within your own story.
At least the music is amazing. I can't stop listening to Rey's theme, so satisfying and adventurous. Thank you John Williams, that is a musical masterpiece again!
Happy new year all!! Now that I've finally seen the movie, I've got a lot of vids, Thor's and others, to catch up on...But speaking for myself, I liked it well enough. I appreciated the attempts to retcon TLJ, the overall feel and tone were much closer to what I expect from a SW film, it was filled with action and adventure, and we got to see the main characters finally interact. There were a lot of issues and problems, too, but on balance, those weren't quite enough to sink the overall package for me; but maybe I'm still reeling from the reaction to TLJ, I might shift that in time. Anywho, as a standalone movie (which all the ST basically are), it's fine, not great, but entertaining enough. As a capper to this trilogy...this trilogy has been so all over the place, that's essentailly meaningless, so N/A. As the finale of the Skywalker Saga as a whole, it doesn't stick that landing, sorry. (Love that Anakin-Ben idea, Thor!)
I'm glad to see someone else who essentially feels the same way I do. It's got lots of flaws, is not deserving to be the complete end of the Skywalker Saga, but it was decent enough in comparison to the hatred I expected to feel going it.
It would be funny that Anakin Skywalker's real father was Sheeve Palpatine all along, the entire saga was just a family infighting, and Palpatine is synonymous with Skywalker.
Ep VII a C
Ep VIII a F-
I wont be seeing ep IX at all! 😔
D-
And C- for me
@@louis-stephane1391 wow
@@mojoarmstretch7261 yeah for me a lot of the things that went wrong in tlj can be traced back at tfa
And while tlj ruined star wars legacy it was a better movie on its own
A conversation between Ben and Anakin would've been incredible!
Both Ray and Ben needed to die and at the end. FIN should have been the future of the Jedi or even better the Bendu trained by a surviving Jedi established at the beginning of the story!!! The character of Ray SUCKED!!! No matter what they tried this character was damaged beyond repair due to the events of TLJ.
I wouldn't mind Rey being so powerful if it was explained in the movies. She doesn't have to be part of a well-known familyname. The fact that Rey can pilot any ship, understand all creatures and droids and doing very well inte art of the jedi (mind-trick, telekinesis and force-healing)
"I don't understand why all the hate on Ray being a Palpatine..." (Or some such)
Then you go on a multipoint rant on all the valid complaints about Rey being a Palpatine. My eyeroll was audible across the room.....
I think he was talking about the hate for the concept of Rey being a Palps. He is then saying the movie executed it badly.
"I really don’t understand the anger from some around the reveal of her being a Palpatine in The Rise of Skywalker."
As in, I don't understand why some were angry that she came from a special bloodline and undid her being "no one". Because pretty much all Jedi start as "no one." That's long established. I also made no complaints against her being a Palpatine. Maybe your audible eyeroll impaired your ability to hear.
@@thorskywalker
Being the granddaughter of the former emperor, a guy who can survive being at ground zero of a thermonuclear explosion and create fleets out of the soil, is hardly "no one". In a lore where force sensitivity is supposedly random, (a point you made) that she comes from force royalty irritates a lot of people (not me because Rey as a character has so many other flaws that this is just noise).
In other words, I think your ability to separate your emotions is clouding your ability to make a cognitive argument.
Let me reiterate, coming from what is essentially Force Royalty, that means she Did Not start out as "no one" as all other Jedi.
@@sparkey6746 He means that Rey being an nobody is nothing special thus people shouldn't be crying about it, since it happens all the time in Star Wars.
Ray is like starting a new game with all cheat codes activated and stomping everything from the beginning.