Both of these cars have better balance and steering feel than most other cars on the road. When compared side by side, the FRS has less understeer than the BRZ, and is more prone to drift. Both cars are well balanced, the FRS is just a bit more eager to get the back out. There are plenty of reviews showing both versions drifting, mainly because of the low-grip stock tires. The differences in feel are minimal, but when driven back to back they do exist. Thanks for watching!
I bought my FR-S in a manual for many "normal" reasons. I'm really glad I did. But I bought the manual for a hidden reason: Most car thieves can't drive a stick.
the 2022 gets bumped up to a 2.4L engine, and the torque dip is mostly flattened out. It does a lot to make the car both faster, and able to tackle hills without gasping for power.
We agree that this is an extreme comparison, but allowed us to push these cars enough to feel the differences. However, as we mentioned in the video, we've also done a large on-road review of the FRS vs. some of its price competitors. We hope you'll watch that piece as well. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks for saying so, we're thrilled you like what we do! As far as the Automatic question... we are always going to say get the manual. We are generally huge believers that the manual transmission is better for really enjoying a car. But, we do understand that real life and commuting sometimes make the auto a more tempting option. In the case of the FRS/BRZ... it's not nearly as fun as the manual, but as far as auto transmissions go, it's pretty good. Not a dual clutch, but decent.
You're right, in fact on these cars it's almost exactly 50lbs of difference. And as we said a few times already weren't able to spec out the cars to our purposes - they were provided as one auto and one manual and we decided we'd rather compare them than ignore the chance to share it with all of you. As you can see, we were surprised by the difference in feel outside of the mismatched transmissions.
This was a great video. I can't believe how specific each car is to your driving style. I was really hoping to get my hands on a BRZ but after seeing this video, I realize I really have to test drive both of them now to see how they really feel.
Thank you for being such a big fan. We generally post once a month, so 3-5 weeks pass between videos, NOT 3-4 months. As we've said many times we truly wish we could post more often but we operate with a smaller budget and crew than pretty much everyone else doing this kind of thing and we want to focus on quality over quantity. We hope you and all the fans like you tell your friends about us, as that's the best way to help us grow and do more! We're thrilled that you like what we do!
Nice review guys. I thought it was funny you had opposite reactions, but also helped to inform the viewers on different perspectives. Personally I think I'd like the FRS dynamics more.
Yes, the weight difference is about equivalent to taking a passenger around. So, if we could have spec'd them both as manuals, we would have, but that wasn't up to us. However, these cars have different suspension settings from the factory and that accounts for a lot of the difference in feel.
We hope you noticed that the guys both acknowledged the lack of power. And we've done a street review of these cars vs. their price competitors where we again talk about the power issue. Hopefully you'll watch more of what we do. We've never been paid by anyone to say anything and we hope you'll stick around. Thanks for watching and commenting!
While the auto does weigh more, the difference is less than 100lbs so it is less of a factor here. The biggest reason for the difference in feel is the BRZ is tuned for a bit more understeer by Subaru (More similar to their other cars), and the FRS is not. Thanks for watching and commenting!
As journalists we are often limited by the specs of the cars available and the locations where they are provided. In this case, the cars happened to be one auto and one manual, and available at this high-altitude track. Because these cars have rarely been shown back to back, we're pleased to be able to share it with you guys. We'll have a more in-depth review against competitors coming soon. Thanks for watching and stay tuned.
That's not actually the point of the review, but we do appreciate you watching and commenting. Yes, they get passed by a ZL1 and R8 in this piece, but what you don't see is them closing in on those cars in the corners. Either way, we have a road-based review coming very soon where the FRS is put up against it's competition. We hope you'll stay tuned!
This was one of a zillion videos that contributed to me buying a FR-S. You both made a great case, but in the end, the difference that wasn't argued was the neutral, non-under steering nature of the Scion. That's what I bought it for and couldn't be happier. Thanks guys, and sorry Paul, you picked wrong!
This is a track comparison only, so we avoided any discussion of things beyond just dynamics and the two cars difference in feel during a track session. We have an in-depth review coming soon with a detailed breakdown and comparison with it's price competitors in street driving situations. Stay tuned!
I test drove both cars today, both cars are manual. I was a bit worried cause both cars have electronic power steering but I was surprised how well they give you feed back. But the big difference that I noticed was the Subaru felt like it was tuned for a racing track while the FRS is more of like a street tuned drift car. And now I'm actually more conflicted on which one to get. If I can afford it, I'd buy both but sadly I can't lol. Price was the FRS is a couple grand cheaper.
We would have preferred to have two manuals for this test, but these were the cars the manufacturers provided. But keep in mind that even though the auto weighs more, it's listed as only a 50lb additive, so the difference being discussed here really is the result of the suspension setups. We've also spoken with many other journalists who've experienced the same difference in the driving feel between the FRS and BRZ (manual or auto). It's slight, but it is there.
We would love to be able to pick the specs of every car we review, but these were the cars that were provided by the manufacturers. So we embraced the chance to review one of each and share it with you instead of walking away because they aren't set up like we would like. Also keep in mind that our focus here is mainly on the dynamics and handling of these two models so the transmission is less of a factor.
If you've read other comments, then you've already heard this... but... We were at a press event for this comparison, and these cars were only offered this way. We were faced with testing an auto vs. a manual or not doing the video at all. We chose to share the experience with all of you. If you would like to create your own comparison and "do the test correctly" you are welcome to do so. Thanks for watching.
As we already mentioned, we didn't get the opportunity to pick the specs of the cars or we would have picked two manual transmissions. But, because this discussion is focused on the handling dynamics of these cars, the mismatched transmissions are less of an issue. We have a more in-depth on-road review coming soon. Thanks for watching and stay tuned!
Thanks a lot for watching. We generally avoid track-based testing, but the guys really enjoyed making this piece. You also might enjoy our FRS v Lotus v Hyundai comparison. We appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment!
Well, we're not sure if you watched the review or not, as it discusses the differences in feel and how surprised the guys were. Beyond the badges, these cars have different suspension setups and different interior options - though this track review was focused on the driving feel.
We would have preferred to drive both cars as Manuals, but this was the only way they were available side-by-side at this event. We chose to compare them as provided by the manufacturers, especially considering that the suspension and handling dynamics were the primary consideration and not the transmissions themselves. We agree that they are impressive cars but need more power. You also might enjoy our Pacific Coast Highway review with the FRS vs. Genesis vs. Elise. Thanks for Watching!
As we've said here before, these were the cars provided by Scion and Subaru. We would have loved to spec them both out and get two manuals for this test. There is no intention of bias and the guys conclusions prove that out (we suspect you didn't watch the entire video). In spite of the different specs, we decided to compare what was provided and share the video with you. We hope you'll watch more of our work and get a clearer sense of our work. Thanks for watching!
thank you for doing this video - this is great. I think it also shows people how doing a simple spring swap on your car can drastically change the characteristics. i wish it weren't impossible to get behind the wheel of one of these (without buying one, which is also not easy now)
We hope you'll watch our comparison piece where we had the Elise and FRS side by side on Pacific Coast highway (Hyundai Genesis Coupe as well). The Elise owner who joined us was surprised by the FRS and the guys discuss them both in more detail. Thanks for watching and we appreciate your comment!
Mostly, yes... the FRS is the GT86 rebadged as a Scion for the US. Except, the GT86 is offered in 2 interior trim levels, and the Scion only gets the base interior. The BRZ has an interior equivalent to the upper level interior on the GT86.
We hope you watched the review to see that these "same" cars do feel different behind the wheel. They aren't set up the same. And the guys disagreed on their favorite. We aren't even the only ones to discuss the difference, as many other magazines and shows have mentioned the handling specifics of these cars and how they aren't identical. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Both the guys acknowledged that these cars are low on power. Like Mazda's MX5, the 86 twins can absolutely use more power and we are hoping and praying for a factory turbo version. However, also like the MX5, they don't need more power to be fun to drive... they are fun to drive, and they are affordable. That combination is worth celebrating. Oh... and we have a full review coming soon so we can talk about more than just its handling on a track!
Well, we are sorry you didn't watch the rest of the piece to hear why Paul (who also flies) said it feels like an airplane. This was not a blanket statement, he further explained how it was similar to a sensation he was feeling. We hope you'll watch this whole piece and more of our work to get a sense of what we do.... we aren't trying to convince anyone to like a specific car, only to give the sense of the sensations of driving each vehicle we review. Thanks for you time!
Okay, everyday driver. You got me. I'm subscribing. I've only watched 2 of your videos so far (this, and the FRS Vs. Genesis Coupe Vs. Elise), and I love what you guys do! Thank you! :D
I hate when the major car magazines try to act like their results are ULTIMATE LAW. Different drivers "can" get completely different results from the same car. I have to tip my hats to you guys for shedding light on that truth. I want this car, preferably badged as a Toyota GT 86. But I'd happily take any version.
Agreed. The Subie has slightly different spring rates... everything else is the same. Although they came to the conclusion that many did, that the BR-Z for a road race car is slightly more predictable and more controllable. But I very much like my sideways tire shredding FR-S
Just discovered this show, just subbed :) I love the 2-presenters format, it gives you 2 different perspectives, and also the roads of California are the best thing in the world!
I ride a 500cc carbeurated motorcycle that handles really well and works as a drivers car. I first learned to drive a mk1 miata, then learned standard on my dad's s2k. I know what driving is all about. I grew up on Gran Turismo and rank amongst the fastest with only a controller. This car is dedicated to people who should have been race drivers. Dedicated to those who know what driving is about. It isn't about power.
If you can find one you should compare a BRZ to an e30 M3. The specs are almost identical and the e30 M3 is pretty much still the bar for chassis cars.
Many journalists love these cars. We weren’t paid-off and we assume they weren’t either. Others have mentioned the Lotus, Cayman, S2000 etc. in comparisons to these cars. We encourage you to drive them and disagree. And we hope you’ll stick around and disagree with us on something else in the future. No one has ever paid us to say anything, and we will keep it that way so we can be honest. Are these cars low on power? Yes. Are they over-hyped? Probably. Are they fun to drive? Definitely.
This was sick! Despite what people were saying about the whole manual/auto(even though I do prefer manual), this was really great information to hear. I was trying to see what makes them different. This has proven that I want the BRZ even more. Thanks for the info!
i love you guys... great video. only thing i wish you could have done was show us your lap times for comparison. i understand you probably weren't timing them but i think that helps tell part of the story. nice job though
After driving a Subaru for the past 8 yrs, 335K miles later, I can absolutely say all of things Paul said about the Subaru are true. It's in their brand! Little to no body roll, sure-footed suspension, never fishtails, sticks to the ground in turns just right, no understeering and gives that overall confidently controlled driving experience. I knew the BRZ was a better car, sight unseen. I don't hv to drive both to compare. Things I LOVED abt my Legacy, apply here hence, the SUBARU STANDARD!
We hope you aren't suggesting that the guys love every car they review... if you watch very much of our work, you'll see that just isn't true. The guys rarely agree on cars and point out the bad points of whatever they drive. We hope you'll watch more of our work to see cars the guys haven't liked very much, and realize we've never been paid-off by anyone.
People saying they are overpriced is your opinion. In most cases in the car world you get what you pay for. I prefer my RX-8. But I was very excited when my buddy picked up a Manual FR-S. I can't wait to try it out
When I read about the car I thought the car needed a lot more power. But when I drove it, it felt perfect. It will probably need more power for the track, but on the road, it doesn't matter. You don't need to go fast in this car to enjoy it. This is one of the few cars that can make you grin at legal speeds.
I guess I'll have to take your word for it until I drive them myself. Didn't mean to doubt your conclusions; just thought that the transmission difference would be of some importance, albeit not too significant. Since handling, not power, was the main focus of the test, I thought the weight difference would show in the cornering behavior (front/rear balance difference) rather than making one car feel like a slouch next to the other. Thanks for the good work. Keep the videos coming :)
Awesome vid again! I dont' have cable TV, haven't in a long time. But if you ever went to TV on the most rare channel ever, I would get the most expensive cable package just to watch it. Also, I've been on the fence about this car for a long time. If it had come even with 225hp, I would've bought one by now, no question. 200hp and the simple interior is hard for me to justify 25k+. Still stuck between the GTI, FRS or MS3 for my next daily driver.
Thanks for the comparison video, guys. I think it's great that you can get an affordable modern-day interpretation of the Japanese sports coupe for around $26 - $27k, and not only that, you can actually choose which setup you like better right out of the box. Overhyped? Maybe. But do you see any other manufacturer making an affordable RWD sports coupe with excellent handling, superb steering and feedback, together with good looks and good fuel efficiency for under $26k?
Very impressive laptimes. And this is a sign that when comparing laptimes, it can't be pure scinece because some driving styles prefer one car and some other driving styles onother car. So, the feeling is the most significant point, if all the drivers agree to a point.
Actually that's a new Camaro ZL1 - a horsepower monster, especially compared with the FRS & BRZ. It vanished in the straights, but lost ground in the turns.
Also, the auto is heavier because of the technical gearing that's needed. Moreover, the BRZ they drove looked like the Limited which has other goodies that add more weight. FR-S Manual: 2600 lbs. BRZ Limited Auto: 2,822 lbs. I have the BRZ Limited Auto on pre-order. Me and the wife both love to drive, but the BRZ will be a daily driver that might see the track a few times a year. If you want to track a lot more, get the BRZ Prem, or the FR-S; they're lighter.
Very interesting how suspension plays a roll. I would think there are some bushing variations as well which will influence both movement and feel. As of recent, Subaru has begun to realize the importance of bushing firmness, upgrading a number of bushings in recent years on the Impreza STI. They have also deviated from the rear stiff spring package too which again changes how the car feels and drives. It's something I like but is personal preference though and relative to how you drive.
Great comparison. Just what I needed to see. I like the way the FR-S handles better than the BRZ too.I'm gonna retire my 95' Integra from daily driving and get an FR-S with the manual six speed in white. $25k, can't beat the bang for the buck.
Can't believe how addicted I am to your reviews (especially being a Brit). Never realised the setup was different in the 2 cars. Im guessing the Scion FRS is the same at a Toyota GT86 and would probably be my preference off the track (with the softer feel and neutral cornering) . I'll defo have to test drive both varients before purcahse now!!
There's already multiple supercharger kits and a few turbo kits available for it. The HKS turbo kit costs about $5k, while some other's cost as little as $2k. I haven't looked into the turbo kits, as I prefer a supercharger for the immediacy in throttle response and the HKS kit has gotten rave reviews. Insiders have noted that with some slightly stronger internals, the stock block can handle up to 400hp or so. Just the supercharger kit will net you about 250hp, which is plenty for this car.
Same car. The BRZ comes in a manual too. This could have been the differences in this video. Toyota now owns the majority of Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru's parent company). Subaru and Toyota both developed the motor boxer layout with Toyota injection. Both cars sit on a modified Impreza chassis. This was truly a joint project not just a rebranding like some companies. The cars should be identical rolling off the same factory line. Its hard to believe that there are any noticeable differences.
I read somewhere that the reasoning (supposedly) behind the BRZ having slightly brought-in steering is because Subaru drivers would be more accustomed to the feel of an all-wheel drive car. Not sure if true but seems to make sense
It seems the FRS is tuned for more transitional oversteer, which would explain the "floaty" feeling of the rear stepping out a tiny bit on turns. I would just pick the Subaru and probably get a suspension kit.
FRS or BRZ. It doesn't really matter they're the same to me. It's a matter of choice like Mass Effect. But then the thought about syringe makes my mass *ERECT!*
I want a turbo model that puts out something equivalent to the 2013 Genesis Coupe turbo. 274hp and 275lbs of torque. Should be enough for this quirky little go kart.
I sell Subaru's for a living, and I've driven both of these vehicles. I've also noticed that there are alot of uninformed/ignorant people on here. People getting mad for Subaru not making a manual? The BRZ is available in both 6-speed auto and 6-speed manual (not a 5). And comparing a BRZ to a Lotus isn't realistic, but honestly, I sold a BRZ to a gentleman 2 days ago who drove up in a Lotus Elise. And Subaru is a COMPLETELY different company than Toyota, I'm talking in company philosiphy too.
check out the Consumer Reports video. the guy was saying the same thing. the cars feel different and it's not the transmission. in fact, the CR guy preferred the feeling of the FRS versus the BRZ.
Yeah, but it's an F1 style auto. Formula 1 race cars use automatics with paddle shifters. Your hands never have to leave the wheel. I used to hate it until I realized how much faster and more in control it makes your lap times. Just like the 2014 Porsche GT3, although that trans is the awesome dual clutch PDK of course, but you get what you pay for and for the FR-S, this is just a cheaper version of that car. You can practice your skills in this car and work up to a Porsche later in life.
Any chance you'd make a video about these canyon roads (location, which is best, etc.) you drive on? I'm constantly looking for, and fascinated by such exciting driving roads! - Thanks
Subaru actually developed the engine and chassis almost entirely by themselves. What Toyota did was bankroll the project, contribute their fuel-injection technology, and style the cars (Subaru tweaked the front fascia and added a spoiler and called it a day on exterior styling). So you can thank Toyota for making the cars so pretty and for making the project happen. You can thank Subaru for making it such an amazing machine to drive.
great review, should help buyers know the difference between the two as street test drives probobly isnt able to tell the difference as much as the track.
Both of these cars have better balance and steering feel than most other cars on the road. When compared side by side, the FRS has less understeer than the BRZ, and is more prone to drift. Both cars are well balanced, the FRS is just a bit more eager to get the back out. There are plenty of reviews showing both versions drifting, mainly because of the low-grip stock tires. The differences in feel are minimal, but when driven back to back they do exist. Thanks for watching!
This proofs that suspension setup is not all about science, but also about driver preference. Nice to see that in this video.
I bought my FR-S in a manual for many "normal" reasons. I'm really glad I did. But I bought the manual for a hidden reason: Most car thieves can't drive a stick.
Robroy MacGregor Please,stop buying cars based on if it will get stolen or not...By the way,I'll give you a hint,GPS.What'cha think?
real car thieves know how to drive stick..it's the dumb niggas that try to steal it for a joy ride...chop shop thieves know what to do
samymasta That's not why I drive a stick. Rather, it is a bonus.
Robroy MacGregor
What about semi's?
What about them?
5 years later: “Where’s the power????”
the 2022 gets bumped up to a 2.4L engine, and the torque dip is mostly flattened out. It does a lot to make the car both faster, and able to tackle hills without gasping for power.
We agree that this is an extreme comparison, but allowed us to push these cars enough to feel the differences. However, as we mentioned in the video, we've also done a large on-road review of the FRS vs. some of its price competitors. We hope you'll watch that piece as well. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks for saying so, we're thrilled you like what we do! As far as the Automatic question... we are always going to say get the manual. We are generally huge believers that the manual transmission is better for really enjoying a car. But, we do understand that real life and commuting sometimes make the auto a more tempting option. In the case of the FRS/BRZ... it's not nearly as fun as the manual, but as far as auto transmissions go, it's pretty good. Not a dual clutch, but decent.
Only if my marriage was as successful as Toyota Subaru partnership.
slap on some exhaust and supercharger on that marriage and it'll be successful.
Haha. Truer words have never been written 😂
You're right, in fact on these cars it's almost exactly 50lbs of difference. And as we said a few times already weren't able to spec out the cars to our purposes - they were provided as one auto and one manual and we decided we'd rather compare them than ignore the chance to share it with all of you. As you can see, we were surprised by the difference in feel outside of the mismatched transmissions.
Agreed - and as this video discusses, it's those suspension differences that matter a surprising amount in the way these cars feel.
This was a great video. I can't believe how specific each car is to your driving style. I was really hoping to get my hands on a BRZ but after seeing this video, I realize I really have to test drive both of them now to see how they really feel.
Thank you for being such a big fan. We generally post once a month, so 3-5 weeks pass between videos, NOT 3-4 months. As we've said many times we truly wish we could post more often but we operate with a smaller budget and crew than pretty much everyone else doing this kind of thing and we want to focus on quality over quantity. We hope you and all the fans like you tell your friends about us, as that's the best way to help us grow and do more! We're thrilled that you like what we do!
Nice review guys. I thought it was funny you had opposite reactions, but also helped to inform the viewers on different perspectives. Personally I think I'd like the FRS dynamics more.
Yes, the weight difference is about equivalent to taking a passenger around. So, if we could have spec'd them both as manuals, we would have, but that wasn't up to us. However, these cars have different suspension settings from the factory and that accounts for a lot of the difference in feel.
We hope you noticed that the guys both acknowledged the lack of power. And we've done a street review of these cars vs. their price competitors where we again talk about the power issue. Hopefully you'll watch more of what we do. We've never been paid by anyone to say anything and we hope you'll stick around. Thanks for watching and commenting!
12+ years later, this platform is becoming a legend in a class of its own
While the auto does weigh more, the difference is less than 100lbs so it is less of a factor here. The biggest reason for the difference in feel is the BRZ is tuned for a bit more understeer by Subaru (More similar to their other cars), and the FRS is not. Thanks for watching and commenting!
As journalists we are often limited by the specs of the cars available and the locations where they are provided.
In this case, the cars happened to be one auto and one manual, and available at this high-altitude track. Because these cars have rarely been shown back to back, we're pleased to be able to share it with you guys. We'll have a more in-depth review against competitors coming soon. Thanks for watching and stay tuned.
That's not actually the point of the review, but we do appreciate you watching and commenting. Yes, they get passed by a ZL1 and R8 in this piece, but what you don't see is them closing in on those cars in the corners. Either way, we have a road-based review coming very soon where the FRS is put up against it's competition. We hope you'll stay tuned!
This was one of a zillion videos that contributed to me buying a FR-S. You both made a great case, but in the end, the difference that wasn't argued was the neutral, non-under steering nature of the Scion. That's what I bought it for and couldn't be happier. Thanks guys, and sorry Paul, you picked wrong!
This is a track comparison only, so we avoided any discussion of things beyond just dynamics and the two cars difference in feel during a track session.
We have an in-depth review coming soon with a detailed breakdown and comparison with it's price competitors in street driving situations. Stay tuned!
I test drove both cars today, both cars are manual. I was a bit worried cause both cars have electronic power steering but I was surprised how well they give you feed back. But the big difference that I noticed was the Subaru felt like it was tuned for a racing track while the FRS is more of like a street tuned drift car. And now I'm actually more conflicted on which one to get. If I can afford it, I'd buy both but sadly I can't lol. Price was the FRS is a couple grand cheaper.
We would have preferred to have two manuals for this test, but these were the cars the manufacturers provided. But keep in mind that even though the auto weighs more, it's listed as only a 50lb additive, so the difference being discussed here really is the result of the suspension setups. We've also spoken with many other journalists who've experienced the same difference in the driving feel between the FRS and BRZ (manual or auto). It's slight, but it is there.
We would love to be able to pick the specs of every car we review, but these were the cars that were provided by the manufacturers. So we embraced the chance to review one of each and share it with you instead of walking away because they aren't set up like we would like. Also keep in mind that our focus here is mainly on the dynamics and handling of these two models so the transmission is less of a factor.
If you've read other comments, then you've already heard this... but... We were at a press event for this comparison, and these cars were only offered this way. We were faced with testing an auto vs. a manual or not doing the video at all. We chose to share the experience with all of you. If you would like to create your own comparison and "do the test correctly" you are welcome to do so. Thanks for watching.
As we already mentioned, we didn't get the opportunity to pick the specs of the cars or we would have picked two manual transmissions. But, because this discussion is focused on the handling dynamics of these cars, the mismatched transmissions are less of an issue.
We have a more in-depth on-road review coming soon. Thanks for watching and stay tuned!
Thanks a lot for watching. We generally avoid track-based testing, but the guys really enjoyed making this piece. You also might enjoy our FRS v Lotus v Hyundai comparison. We appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment!
Well, we're not sure if you watched the review or not, as it discusses the differences in feel and how surprised the guys were. Beyond the badges, these cars have different suspension setups and different interior options - though this track review was focused on the driving feel.
We would have preferred to drive both cars as Manuals, but this was the only way they were available side-by-side at this event. We chose to compare them as provided by the manufacturers, especially considering that the suspension and handling dynamics were the primary consideration and not the transmissions themselves. We agree that they are impressive cars but need more power. You also might enjoy our Pacific Coast Highway review with the FRS vs. Genesis vs. Elise. Thanks for Watching!
I use to say that too, but after I developed arthritis in my knees, I thank the auto heaven that there's such thing as an automatic! ;)
As we've said here before, these were the cars provided by Scion and Subaru. We would have loved to spec them both out and get two manuals for this test. There is no intention of bias and the guys conclusions prove that out (we suspect you didn't watch the entire video). In spite of the different specs, we decided to compare what was provided and share the video with you. We hope you'll watch more of our work and get a clearer sense of our work. Thanks for watching!
thank you for doing this video - this is great. I think it also shows people how doing a simple spring swap on your car can drastically change the characteristics. i wish it weren't impossible to get behind the wheel of one of these (without buying one, which is also not easy now)
We hope you'll watch our comparison piece where we had the Elise and FRS side by side on Pacific Coast highway (Hyundai Genesis Coupe as well). The Elise owner who joined us was surprised by the FRS and the guys discuss them both in more detail. Thanks for watching and we appreciate your comment!
I drive at HPR all the time, and I must say that this video makes that track look amazing. Thanks for the review on two very interesting cars guys!!
Mostly, yes... the FRS is the GT86 rebadged as a Scion for the US. Except, the GT86 is offered in 2 interior trim levels, and the Scion only gets the base interior. The BRZ has an interior equivalent to the upper level interior on the GT86.
We hope you watched the review to see that these "same" cars do feel different behind the wheel. They aren't set up the same. And the guys disagreed on their favorite. We aren't even the only ones to discuss the difference, as many other magazines and shows have mentioned the handling specifics of these cars and how they aren't identical. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I'm a Nissan guy, but thank you Toyota, Subaru, and Scion for producing these cars and showing everyone else how it's done.
Both the guys acknowledged that these cars are low on power. Like Mazda's MX5, the 86 twins can absolutely use more power and we are hoping and praying for a factory turbo version. However, also like the MX5, they don't need more power to be fun to drive... they are fun to drive, and they are affordable. That combination is worth celebrating. Oh... and we have a full review coming soon so we can talk about more than just its handling on a track!
Well, we are sorry you didn't watch the rest of the piece to hear why Paul (who also flies) said it feels like an airplane. This was not a blanket statement, he further explained how it was similar to a sensation he was feeling. We hope you'll watch this whole piece and more of our work to get a sense of what we do.... we aren't trying to convince anyone to like a specific car, only to give the sense of the sensations of driving each vehicle we review. Thanks for you time!
Okay, everyday driver. You got me. I'm subscribing. I've only watched 2 of your videos so far (this, and the FRS Vs. Genesis Coupe Vs. Elise), and I love what you guys do! Thank you! :D
I hate when the major car magazines try to act like their results are ULTIMATE LAW. Different drivers "can" get completely different results from the same car. I have to tip my hats to you guys for shedding light on that truth. I want this car, preferably badged as a Toyota GT 86. But I'd happily take any version.
Cool review! These guys illustrate exactly how these cars are different. Which is better just depends on how you prefer your car to behave.
Agreed. The Subie has slightly different spring rates... everything else is the same. Although they came to the conclusion that many did, that the BR-Z for a road race car is slightly more predictable and more controllable. But I very much like my sideways tire shredding FR-S
Just discovered this show, just subbed :)
I love the 2-presenters format, it gives you 2 different perspectives, and also the roads of California are the best thing in the world!
I ride a 500cc carbeurated motorcycle that handles really well and works as a drivers car. I first learned to drive a mk1 miata, then learned standard on my dad's s2k. I know what driving is all about. I grew up on Gran Turismo and rank amongst the fastest with only a controller.
This car is dedicated to people who should have been race drivers.
Dedicated to those who know what driving is about.
It isn't about power.
If you can find one you should compare a BRZ to an e30 M3. The specs are almost identical and the e30 M3 is pretty much still the bar for chassis cars.
Many journalists love these cars. We weren’t paid-off and we assume they weren’t either. Others have mentioned the Lotus, Cayman, S2000 etc. in comparisons to these cars. We encourage you to drive them and disagree. And we hope you’ll stick around and disagree with us on something else in the future. No one has ever paid us to say anything, and we will keep it that way so we can be honest. Are these cars low on power? Yes. Are they over-hyped? Probably. Are they fun to drive? Definitely.
This was sick! Despite what people were saying about the whole manual/auto(even though I do prefer manual), this was really great information to hear. I was trying to see what makes them different. This has proven that I want the BRZ even more. Thanks for the info!
We have the FRS vs. competition comparison in the works. Stay close - it's not our next piece, but the one after that.
True, i tried the GT86 to a BRZ only but believe me.... once you get in the GT86 your sold its amazing.
i love you guys... great video. only thing i wish you could have done was show us your lap times for comparison. i understand you probably weren't timing them but i think that helps tell part of the story. nice job though
After driving a Subaru for the past 8 yrs, 335K miles later, I can absolutely say all of things Paul said about the Subaru are true. It's in their brand! Little to no body roll, sure-footed suspension, never fishtails, sticks to the ground in turns just right, no understeering and gives that overall confidently controlled driving experience. I knew the BRZ was a better car, sight unseen. I don't hv to drive both to compare. Things I LOVED abt my Legacy, apply here hence, the SUBARU STANDARD!
Thanks for the great review guys, I was waiting for you guys to review it :D
Oh how quickly we all forgot how great the first gen platform really was. Oh well I still have my FRS and it's greatness!!!!
We hope you aren't suggesting that the guys love every car they review... if you watch very much of our work, you'll see that just isn't true. The guys rarely agree on cars and point out the bad points of whatever they drive. We hope you'll watch more of our work to see cars the guys haven't liked very much, and realize we've never been paid-off by anyone.
People saying they are overpriced is your opinion. In most cases in the car world you get what you pay for. I prefer my RX-8. But I was very excited when my buddy picked up a Manual FR-S. I can't wait to try it out
I was waiting for this exact video, what better than by you guys
When I read about the car I thought the car needed a lot more power. But when I drove it, it felt perfect. It will probably need more power for the track, but on the road, it doesn't matter. You don't need to go fast in this car to enjoy it. This is one of the few cars that can make you grin at legal speeds.
Finally somebody compares the twins head to head!! Great review, will you guys be doing the same comparison on the street?
I guess I'll have to take your word for it until I drive them myself. Didn't mean to doubt your conclusions; just thought that the transmission difference would be of some importance, albeit not too significant. Since handling, not power, was the main focus of the test, I thought the weight difference would show in the cornering behavior (front/rear balance difference) rather than making one car feel like a slouch next to the other. Thanks for the good work. Keep the videos coming :)
recently subbed and I love your guys videos. Keep em coming.
Awesome vid again! I dont' have cable TV, haven't in a long time. But if you ever went to TV on the most rare channel ever, I would get the most expensive cable package just to watch it.
Also, I've been on the fence about this car for a long time. If it had come even with 225hp, I would've bought one by now, no question. 200hp and the simple interior is hard for me to justify 25k+. Still stuck between the GTI, FRS or MS3 for my next daily driver.
FR-S fits my style perfectly, and I loved it when I test drove it. I can't stand automatic transmissions, no matter what brand.
Thanks for the comparison video, guys. I think it's great that you can get an affordable modern-day interpretation of the Japanese sports coupe for around $26 - $27k, and not only that, you can actually choose which setup you like better right out of the box.
Overhyped? Maybe. But do you see any other manufacturer making an affordable RWD sports coupe with excellent handling, superb steering and feedback, together with good looks and good fuel efficiency for under $26k?
Very impressive laptimes. And this is a sign that when comparing laptimes, it can't be pure scinece because some driving styles prefer one car and some other driving styles onother car. So, the feeling is the most significant point, if all the drivers agree to a point.
Actually that's a new Camaro ZL1 - a horsepower monster, especially compared with the FRS & BRZ. It vanished in the straights, but lost ground in the turns.
the suspension tuning for the subaru favors understeer over the scion, which gives the driver a greater sense of stability
I'd love the opportunity to do this in both cars to see which matches my driving style best too, I agree with Todd as I would have the manual as well.
I manually clicked on this video but automatically saw your comment.
Also, the auto is heavier because of the technical gearing that's needed. Moreover, the BRZ they drove looked like the Limited which has other goodies that add more weight.
FR-S Manual: 2600 lbs. BRZ Limited Auto: 2,822 lbs.
I have the BRZ Limited Auto on pre-order. Me and the wife both love to drive, but the BRZ will be a daily driver that might see the track a few times a year. If you want to track a lot more, get the BRZ Prem, or the FR-S; they're lighter.
Subarus have a reputation for being "well-planted" and it is good to know they have worked to retain that feeling with the BRZ.
Very interesting how suspension plays a roll. I would think there are some bushing variations as well which will influence both movement and feel. As of recent, Subaru has begun to realize the importance of bushing firmness, upgrading a number of bushings in recent years on the Impreza STI. They have also deviated from the rear stiff spring package too which again changes how the car feels and drives. It's something I like but is personal preference though and relative to how you drive.
Great comparison. Just what I needed to see. I like the way the FR-S handles better than the BRZ too.I'm gonna retire my 95' Integra from daily driving and get an FR-S with the manual six speed in white. $25k, can't beat the bang for the buck.
It's okay the outcome is the same as far as the feel and steering of the cars. I think the video was very informative thanks.
Can't believe how addicted I am to your reviews (especially being a Brit). Never realised the setup was different in the 2 cars. Im guessing the Scion FRS is the same at a Toyota GT86 and would probably be my preference off the track (with the softer feel and neutral cornering) . I'll defo have to test drive both varients before purcahse now!!
lol manual vs auto... fair comparison
lel
There's already multiple supercharger kits and a few turbo kits available for it. The HKS turbo kit costs about $5k, while some other's cost as little as $2k. I haven't looked into the turbo kits, as I prefer a supercharger for the immediacy in throttle response and the HKS kit has gotten rave reviews. Insiders have noted that with some slightly stronger internals, the stock block can handle up to 400hp or so. Just the supercharger kit will net you about 250hp, which is plenty for this car.
Same car. The BRZ comes in a manual too. This could have been the differences in this video. Toyota now owns the majority of Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru's parent company). Subaru and Toyota both developed the motor boxer layout with Toyota injection. Both cars sit on a modified Impreza chassis. This was truly a joint project not just a rebranding like some companies. The cars should be identical rolling off the same factory line. Its hard to believe that there are any noticeable differences.
I read somewhere that the reasoning (supposedly) behind the BRZ having slightly brought-in steering is because Subaru drivers would be more accustomed to the feel of an all-wheel drive car.
Not sure if true but seems to make sense
It seems the FRS is tuned for more transitional oversteer, which would explain the "floaty" feeling of the rear stepping out a tiny bit on turns.
I would just pick the Subaru and probably get a suspension kit.
FRS or BRZ. It doesn't really matter they're the same to me. It's a matter of choice like Mass Effect. But then the thought about syringe makes my mass *ERECT!*
Regular Car Reviews? YES
Pretty cool to see two of my favorite cars on my local track.
Other way around. BR-Z is softer and tuned for more neutral driving dynamics. FR-S is slightly sharper and puts down better testing numbers for it.
I agree, I'd like to see the stig race both of these and a miata on a track and see which is the fastest
I want a turbo model that puts out something equivalent to the 2013 Genesis Coupe turbo. 274hp and 275lbs of torque. Should be enough for this quirky little go kart.
I'm looking forward to taking my FD to High Plains Raceway this summer.
Great video, *almost* exactly what I was looking for! The only thing missing was a show down between the two ;) Time to look for FR-S vs MX-5...
I sell Subaru's for a living, and I've driven both of these vehicles. I've also noticed that there are alot of uninformed/ignorant people on here. People getting mad for Subaru not making a manual? The BRZ is available in both 6-speed auto and 6-speed manual (not a 5). And comparing a BRZ to a Lotus isn't realistic, but honestly, I sold a BRZ to a gentleman 2 days ago who drove up in a Lotus Elise. And Subaru is a COMPLETELY different company than Toyota, I'm talking in company philosiphy too.
check out the Consumer Reports video. the guy was saying the same thing. the cars feel different and it's not the transmission. in fact, the CR guy preferred the feeling of the FRS versus the BRZ.
Yeah, but it's an F1 style auto. Formula 1 race cars use automatics with paddle shifters. Your hands never have to leave the wheel. I used to hate it until I realized how much faster and more in control it makes your lap times. Just like the 2014 Porsche GT3, although that trans is the awesome dual clutch PDK of course, but you get what you pay for and for the FR-S, this is just a cheaper version of that car. You can practice your skills in this car and work up to a Porsche later in life.
Guys, the BRZ and FRS are different in their engine placement. Subaru placed it further back for different weight distributional.
Any chance you'd make a video about these canyon roads (location, which is best, etc.) you drive on? I'm constantly looking for, and fascinated by such exciting driving roads! - Thanks
Oh i hope they still review the cars independent of each other, great video guys :)
I bought an frs and ill admit the back end does feel floaty but it is one superb car to drive around town or mountains
This made me pick the Scion FRS over the BRZ on what to buy.
Also explain how Miata, despite its weight manages to be more comfortable and quiet and more refined in terms of interior.
Subaru actually developed the engine and chassis almost entirely by themselves. What Toyota did was bankroll the project, contribute their fuel-injection technology, and style the cars (Subaru tweaked the front fascia and added a spoiler and called it a day on exterior styling). So you can thank Toyota for making the cars so pretty and for making the project happen. You can thank Subaru for making it such an amazing machine to drive.
Two really sweet new coupes at around the same price point. What a tough choice to make.
I enjoyed the review, keep up the good work guys
great review, should help buyers know the difference between the two as street test drives probobly isnt able to tell the difference as much as the track.
I've watched a showroom GTS 86 in Australia out perform Mx-5's and S2000's at the local Winton raceway.