The Standardized Cast Bullet Powder Coating Technique + VR to John Henry
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2015
- With powder coating, a bullet caster needs to develop a reliable standardized technique using processes that work without wasting effort on processes that are not necessary while increasing costs.
Still going through all your back catalogue videos.
So much info and good tips!
PhilsGarage - Welcome on board the Hot Lead Zone Express...!! It's all about the scenery, the info, and the good folks that are along for the ride... Best to ya, FC
Fortune cookie you have taught me so much over the years. I swear your a wizard lol
Mr.Cornfed's Bushcraft & Outdoors - No wizard status. Just some gray hair and more all the time....Best to ya, FC Steve
Thanks, I have the same tumbler. I will give this a try.
Looks like a good process.
Wasn't having much luck shake and bake rifle bullets; not enough coating on the driving bands, also they would lay parallel and stick together. When separated they would have high ridges that remained after sizing and caused chambering issues. Got the HF electrostatic gun and it works great. Try parchment baking paper instead to foil, seams to flake off without flash. Made some two color, black and orange Halloween BOO-lits.
+qchemp420 - Certainly, those casters who wish to PC but can't get good result doing hand or machine tumbling for whatever reason = the electrostatic is the way to go. If I had to do the electrostatic, I would probably conclude that my 45/45/10 system of lubing no size TL bullets is the most economical in cost, time and effort to get excellent performance cast bullets ready to load... For all those who are doing the electrostatic - more power to ya... Best Regards - FC
Okay, you inspired me to break out my tumbler out and I discovered about 100 44 Magnum cases in there from my last reloading session in Alaska. Been reloading everything but since then using stainless steel pin wet tumbling. Finally broke down and got a Winchester 94 AE in 44 Magnum and a single-shot for suppressed shooting. Time to burn up some 300 grainers.
+RyeOnHam -- Heh, heh - 300 grainers stoked with H110 powder in the 44 makes it the mighty 44 especially in the carbine... You are ready for any beastie out there as long as they can't get their paws or jaws on ya!! North to Alaska - Yooo-oohhhh!! -- FC
I think your red powder sticks together more than I have experienced. I kinda shake them out of the tray and use a wood spatula to scrape them off/ knock the clumps around. They need very little hand work.
p.s. it is nice to see that you standardized on the exact method I've been trying to talk you into for a year. If it took you a few experiments to get there, you still got there.
Great idea
two things you can do,
1. run the HF powder in a old blender to make it finer
2. using black air-soft BB in the tumbler will help build a static charge and have the powder stick better.
also having the Base coated dose not do anything for you. the KEY is having the lube grooves coated. this is the area that has contact with the barrel.
I use a harbor freight powder coat gun, ESPC with a 25% off coupon, you can get them for around 60 bucks. and you can STACK the trays in the oven.
Good stuff FC. Your process looks a lot like mine now. I do water quench again when they come out of the oven after baking but maybe I don't need to. I've been PC'ing some lead cast HP's. That is a bit trickier. Gotta give'em a good shake after coating to prevent powder build up inside the hollow point. Anyway, great vid.
+Tonsofgunsoffun - I'm thinking that when PCing HPs, a fine artist brush could be used in the even excess powder is in the HP, just a little dab in there with the brush will clear the excess... just in case the shaking doesn't get 'em all... -- FC
I still say a quick preheat to cook off moisture and increase static will help if you have problems, just let'em cool a tad before powdering them. Even on the bullets that have "bare spots" I side with GunFunZS in that there is a thin translucent layer of coat, like the shiny glaze one puts on pottery/ceramics for a gloss coat, there's something akin to that on those spots. Even if there is actually bare lead, the amounts are so small that you won't see any problems. If you want a better quality, better coating powder, I like Prismatic Powders. They have good prices, fast shipping, excellent service and enough color choices to make your brain hurt! Beautiful colors!
I notice that you have been powder coating the tumble lube bullets. Could this method be used on standard designs with the regular lube grooves?
My method: 20 minute cycles. I mark all times on a piece of paper lest I lose track of time.
I tumble 300-350 rounds while baking the previous batch.
After 7 minutes, I shake the mesh cage in oven to detach the bullets from sticking to anything. After 13 more minutes (20 minutes total oven time) they are ready to be removed and I use a sieve to move new bullets from tumbler to the mesh cage. This way output is ~1000 rounds per hour.
Few questions and i might of missed it during the video. you do size the bullets at all? Also since the powder coat doesn't lead the barrel, do you think it would be safe to use cast powder coated lead bullets with a silencer. i have a couple and silencerco says don't use cast lead bullets except in user serviceable cans. thank you and awesome videos.
This reminds me to stop selling stuff! I sold my tumbler when I "upgraded" to ultra sonic cleaning my brass.
+eXdXgXe4life - That Lyman dry tumbler will probably coat the cast bullets with PC in 1/2 hour or less. Forget the two hours - that's just plain overkill. You can still do the 45/45/10 tumble system. Nothing wrong with that lube...works fine. Best Regards - FC
This is new to me and I started doing minimal casting a few years back and I use a lyman 4500 libe master. Speaking of FC, do you still have to size these suckers and apply a wax/lube or are they good to go??
Do you still need to size them and gas check them
I have not tried this process. How much of a diameter change is there? Is their a need to use a undersized casting so as not to exceed the needed finished diameter? Hate to do a batch and find that they will not chamber.
Great vid as usual. Do you size the bullets after the powder coating or is the coating thin enough to not matter?
+Vomisainc - Great question..! That's the beauty of thin. If our TL bullets drop properly and we PC thin, no sizing is required (your calipers will bear this out). And if we use the Lee Factory Crimp Dies in our reloading, any imperfections in size of our cast bullets, PC or not, will be taken care of nicely. I sincerely believe that Richard Lee did his TL molds (and especially the 6 cavs), Lee Alox, dies and Factory Crimp Die as an integrated system to make reloading easier and more productive for shooters - he was ahead of his time in recognizing the value of lots of ammo even before all the competition games like IPSC, IDPA, Steel Shooting, Cowboy Action, 3 gun etc came along. There was only NRA Bullseye back when he developed the system. The Bullseye shooters need lots of ammo, but not like the other comps mentioned. Best Regards... - FC
Can you now send them through the 452 lee sizer now ?
I have the press and sizing die setup for 452, hate to have it gather dust !
One question and it has probably been asked somewhere before but here goes. I see you using 9MM bullets, They are fairly slow when fired and have little pressure behind them usually. Have you tried the coated bullets in any rifle type calibres with test firings? I would greatly love to know if the PC can stand the 1700 to 2300 fps muzzle velocity and higher gas pressures that most rifles like to sling slugs. Thanks in advance for the reply.
+Guy Satya -- Reports from Australia and from some shooters here in the states is that powder coated bullets can be shot just like FMJs in rifles at full velocity. I'm not looking for that myself as the PC bullets would lack expansion. Since I'm not shooting as many hunting rounds anyway, I'll just stay with the factory produced jacketed expanding bullets. For those calibers that I would shoot a lot of, jacketed bullets or FMJs for those applications are not expensive so I have no need to push PC bullets like that. PC bullets are fantastic applied to handgun shooting at less than 1700fps. That's where I intend to stay until others do the beta testing for me - if rifle PC bullets were accurate, the benchrest shooters would be using them. Instead, they only use the best produced most consistent jacketed bullets they can find... Best to ya, FC
Ever think about using a spray glue on the bullets before dropping in the vibratory the spray glue would be just a light tac coat and the powder would be easier to adhere when the bullet is just lightly tacky
What color powder coat is that and from who is it produced by
What's the max diameter for a powder coated 9mm lead cast bullet?
How many pounds of powder do you have in the tumbler? The shake and bake method worked well at first but the outcome has started declining. Thanks FC
Zac Alldredge - When the hand shake method works, we go with it...but there will come times that for some infernal reason, the powder does not stick to the bullets...something about the static not building up on shaking...When that happens, the vibe tumbler will get the job done...The vibe tumber has not failed even once - there have been times that the powder took a bit more vibe tumbling to get the stick, but it does come. On those occasions, if I was doing the hand shake, there would have been much frustration. It only takes 2-3 tablespoons of powder to coat 200 bullets. Good powder coating to ya, FC
Can I use the same tumbler I use for brass cleaning? Does the powder coat clean out of the tumbler easily? Thanks
Richard Venneman - You will need a damp rag to clean out the media from the case cleaning. But when you are done with the powder coat - the tumbler only needs a dry cloth to wipe the last of the powder from the tumbler. But I've gone to the superior wet tumbling of my brass so my vibe tumbler is now dedicated to powder coating - works great there getting the powder to stick to the bullets after about 15-20 minutes of tumbling... Best to ya, FC
can you still powder coat hollow points or this and results after shooting, do you still get proper mshrooming?
+Doug Wilkinson -- If the powder coats inside the HP, it will powder coat there. By itself, powder coating will not enhance expansion and may actually impede it very slightly. However, the full effect of powder coating allowing high velocity with soft alloys - is to allow expansion. But a lot more gel testing will have to be done to definitely answer your question. Best to ya, FC
I'd say 20 mins of tumbling and 10 minutes of baking is generally adequate. 30 minutes is kinda overkill.
one comment- I think there is an upper limit for how thick the powder will cake on with the powders I've used. Once that limit is reached, more tumbling won't make it any thicker. It will break up clumpiness, which I think is mostly related to moisture.
+GunFun ZS -- Good stuff ya got there in this comment... I already hinted in the video that shorter times will do for tumbling - I'm going to shorten my operations to 20 minutes of tumbling... Have a great day -- FC
I just use a plier when they are base to base and i can't get them apart. also dropping them in water makes it easier to get them apart.
Mike Warren - Also quenches the bullets to get a little increase in hardness, Good reloadin' to ya... FC
im getting basket grooves on my bullets. are these ok or toss them?
darksoldier300 - Sorry to be a bit late in reply - was out of town...Depending on the powder being used, this can be no problem to bad. long rifle bullets are more problematic than short pistol bullets. Sometimes small grooves are taken care of on sizing. If your coating is nice and thin, a second thin coat will even out the grooves. - bullets will need sizing after the second coat unless they mike out OK. Blems like these will be no problem is being shot at standard velocity pistol. For high vel rifle, best to do the PC on parchment paper or non stick foil with bulllets on their sides. For perfect results, bullets will need to be stood up on their ends. For pistol bullets, HF Red and Eastwood Ford Light Blue give good results with the basket. Good PC to ya... FC.
thanks for the reply. i love your videos btw you are my favortie casting youtuber! keep it up!
darksoldier300 - Thanks for your gracious comments... Much appreciated...Have a great day to ya, Sir darksoldier300 ...!! FC
Good to know that I can clean out my tumbler after powder coating, I'll give it a shot. I have some black powder that I got from a comercial powder coater I can send you (I have 10 pounds) for some for some testing, just pm me an address and I'll get it out Friday.
I made a donut-shaped plastic container that I put on top of the tumbler - but in practice some powder will find its way in the tumbler so it needs to be cleaned anyway.
+Spörde Spyrdenstein - But if you don't get much powder into the tumbler then the cleanup is minimal. Me, it worked out perfectly, as I'm now wet tumbling my brass. My Lyman Turbo Tumbler is now a dedicated PC tumbler. Only thing though, is if I switch colors, I'll have to clean the tumbler. It's OK. I've already figured it out. I'll just take the bowl off and hose it out; dry it thoroughly and back in business... Have a great day... FC
great video take a look at this powder www.eastwood.com/paints/hotcoat-powder-coating/powders.html many colors to choose from