Flattest Shooting Cartridge Ever!
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2021
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - Спорт
The 50 BMG is an excellent hunting round, if your hunting light armored vehicles…..lol
Iv used many 50s and most of the ones iv used are anti material rifles, such as you described thin skinned vehicles block walls ect they really perform great when you use the MK 211 rounds , gives you the power of a standard 20 MM.
50 bmg is a great people hunter. Leaves some meat for dinner too.
@@derekbootle8316 lol, it is fun to shoot. And technically it is an ethical hunting tool, because 9o percent of the time, if you do your job behind the rifle the animal will drop right there. I want to see is a 50 bmg derringer !!!!!! I would buy that just to put it in a display case !! I would pay anyone who would shoot it 1000.00 bucks.
@@derekbootle8316 the 50 cal wasn't designed for hunting people, it was designed for use as a anti material role mostly , but back in the day it was considered as anti tank but modern Armor made it obsolete for that use , however most any cal round can be used on humans, if it was me it probably use a 338, or something with a better flatter shooting bullet
@@armedprophet3321 I don't know about Derringers but some 50 cal pistols have been made. Iv seen a video of a 110 lbs girl shooting one , the design of muzzle brakes has done alot to reduce the felt recoil in most 50.BMG even when use in a pistol .
For general hunting with the cartridges used in this demonstration I chose the 270 win. It gives me the energy and maximum point blank range for my desired game and the terrain in which I live.
An excellent round.
All of these are excellent hunting rounds.. Because heck.. If you can find the ammo on the shelf, it's good to hunt with. Finding the ammo is the hard part.
yeah, but nobody is using a 26 inch barrel for a hunting rifle (unless it's a single shot). The 150 grn bullet isn't popular with hunters either. The 130grn is the favorite for hunters in .270
I grew up in northern Minnesota. Started in the woods with the 30/30 from my grandparents. The property that was bought and owned now is flat hay fields. The .270 does anything I ask of it. Hit it, slap hard, and drop em. I feel like you can’t call it luck anymore. A good shot is a good shot. My friends who shoot the .308 fair pretty well. But that .270 slaps!
What stands out to me isn’t which cartridge is number one. If you step back and look at the results, the 7mm Rem Mag is right there in second place in most of the categories. To me that makes it best overall. The first hunting rifle I ever bought was a Ruger M77 in 7mm, back in 1977. I sure wish I’d kept that beauty!
7mm.08 = Flat.
@@ajaxinfinitum5604 no
Yet another great vid, Ron! As usual, very thorough. About 30 years ago I made one of my dumber mistakes in life when I sold a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .264 Winchester Mag "Westerner" - the 26 inch barrel model. It was the only rifle I ever owned that shot flatter then my .257 Weatherby. I'm sure it would be one of the top contenders for the "flattest" at least out to 600 yards. Thanks again!!! (And thanks for including a bit of footage with "Covey!"
That's what my .308 is! I've killed many deer and elk with that bad boy.... finally retired it last year.
I find myself looking forward to your videos like I used to look forward to Saturday morning cartoons as a kid.
Dog: “Ron is talking to himself again. I think he needs company...”
Boy, you have Covey figured out, Rodolfo!
I talk to my girl too. She's black and mixed ha.ha.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors is there any difference between the .50bmg and the 12.7x108?
@@jamesbassinger3569 yikes
I was really glad to see the 220 Swift on the list! I grew up hunting whitetails with a 220 and I LOVE it!!! Everyone laughs about the size but let me tell you it does the job really well. It’s all about shot placement.
Interesting comments Ron. I was a government deer culler here in New Zealand back in the 90s with hundreds of deer,goats and pigs to my talleys. I've also been a professional meat hunter and over the last 45 years of my hunting career ive shot most calibres available. After trying everything from .222 to 6mm STW I settled on the venerable .257 Roberts using 120 nosler partitions and found this to be extremely accurate and devastating on all our game animals out to 350yds.
Hey Jan I think it is kind of funny how an old cartridge like the 257 Roberts is still getting the job done, when there are so many new cartridges available. I am not a hunter, but even I know that bullet placement is the most important thing.
My personal favorite is the .300 Win Mag. It is a cartridge that suits almost all of the needs that an armed civilian like me would require. It is enough to take any species of big game, and also viable as a long range combat cartridge in case my country is threatened and I am called upon to defend it. For sidearms, .44 Magnum is my choice. It is a versatile, straight wall round that can be loaded with smokeless and black powder, and can be handloaded to various power levels for different needs.
@@BlueSkyCountry those both seem like good choices, with a fair amount of versatility in both bullet weight and type, and also in powder choice.
My highest Talley for a day on goats was 378 on a cull that took 6 of us 3 days to complete. I used a .243 ruger for that one and chewed through 400 rounds. Yes, bullet placement is important but what is often overlooked is terminal energy. The .257 Roberts is a compromise between the accuracy of the .243 and the footpounds of energy delivered by the 25.06. I found target acquisition on multiple targets easier with less recoil and also had the ability to carry more rounds on my belt. (Usually,60). Zeroed for 3" high at 100yds I was only 6" low at 300yds. I've tipped over anything from hares to freisian steers with this round and I'll stand by my earlier comments.
.257 Roberts for that old school goodness! What a round!
I appreciate how you mentioned that for long range you need sectional density, low wind deflection rather than flat shooting abilities. Still very interesting discussion, thank you
⁸ 8
A friend of my Father used a .220 Swift to incredible effect on Deer/Caribou/Black Bear during the 60s, 70s, and 80s. We were all pretty good shots, but this gentleman was way above average and had been in the OSS during WWII if that might elaborate. I was a teenager in the late 70s and early 80s when I hunted with him, and witnessed several of his 300-400 yard kills. With the proper bullet, the Swift punches way above it's weight class.
257 roberts loads
Read that Elmer Keith said the 220 swift was the deadliest whitetail cartridge ever created
.220 swift will flatten a whitetail like a lightning bolt! To carry the point even further, a .204 Ruger will wad a whitetail up right in it's tracks, as well!
No point in using that when most hunting cartridges wont drop considerably before four hundred yds. Cant use it on big game either.
The challenge when using the 220 Swift is bullet choice. That's about it. You get the bullet construction right and you have some extra barrels laying around for later, you're golden.
Another great video Ron. 58 years with the .270. I'm old school and I'm staying there......lol.
Classic
Great info as always Ron. As an Australian who used to Cull Feral Animals from cats, wild dogs, pigs, donkey's, camels, horses, scrub bull and water buffalo over almost 20 years in National Parks and on Private Properties we would use various calibres. The mainstay calibre we used was the 300Win Mag running a 150 or 165gn Nosler Ballistic Tip but the 270Win with the 130 or 150gn Nosler Ballistic Tip was also used a lot and on the bigger stuff we had the faithful 375H&H and 458Win Mag among multiple others. We always tried to use the best tool for the job if we were stretching out to 600-650 meters the 300Win Mag all day but anything under that we could choose others which would usually be the 270Win or even a 30-30Win.
I have that P.O. Ackley book along with Elmer Keith's "Hell, I was There", had them since the mid 80's and no neither are for sale. Both excellent reading and full of information.
Yes, I have both volume 1 and 2 of the P.O Ackley books. Very interesting reading. I just wanted to say that the powders mentioned at the time of the writing of the book are different than the ones of the same numbers and MFGs now. Some of the loads listed in that book will disassemble your firearm in a hurry. I don't have Keiths book, but have seen it advertized in various places. I will probably have to pick up a copy sometime in the near future.
Me too. I have both and PO Ackley book #2. ( Not to mention, Shotguns by Keith ) Good stuff
I have hunted my entire life and have been a hunting guide half of my life and got a 220 swift in a Remington rifle with a fluted staneless bull barrel and I love it . It’s heavy but I have killed 200 lb whitetail and audad sheep with it, it does the job but it’s all about bullet placement with it . People laugh when they see the bullets and say how can you kill a deer with that but it works and I would not be afraid to shoot anything with it . Thanks for all the information you give us .
That is one of the fastest flat shooting rounds around, iv seen my friend Joe shoot his 220 swift with a ballistic tip at over 450 yards and put the wood to the varmint he's aiming at. And like you say it's always about shot placement.!!!!!!
Excellent video!
I am a bench rest shooter, and so was my Dad. We also took numerous trips to Nebraska and South Dakota to hunt prairie dogs.
My Dad was always a fan of the 220 swift, and had alot of literature from Ackley.
The 220 swift is the only caliber I use for bench rest shooting, and also prairie dog hunting. My bench guns have had 1000's of rounds through them, and my heavy barreled hunting guns (Remington 40X's) have had even more rounds through them.
All the rifles still shoot VERY well. No "barrel burnout" like they claimed in the 1950's.
Thanks for the interesting video!
Thanks for the intel on the 220 Swift, Bob.
Great video! Back in the late 70's, I had a 7 mm Remington Mag. I was going to college in Southern Oregon at the time, which meant I was POOR. I did a lot of long range rockchuck varmint hunting when I should have been attending classes, and with my "poor man's reloader" (Lee Loader - "Pound the round reloader" for you cage fighting enthusiasts), I began to get a little crazy with a bit too much powder sending the rounds. (Cases were starting to crack is how I knew I was using too much powder). I backed off the amount of powder I was using in each round, yet still used just enough to keep from cracking the casings.
I say the above to say that opening day of Blacktail Deer hunting season in 1972, a nice 3-point buck out about 50 yards presented me with a 45 degree angle neck shot. (I don't remember now what weight bullet I was using, unfortunately, nor what kind of powder I was using in the round). At any rate, the bullet penetrated the hide, but upon finding neck muscle on the inside -- instead of traveling it's expected path and exiting the neck on the other side -- the bullet did what I called an explosion/ricochet -- it turned sharply and followed the neck muscle layer right into the chest area. Bullet fragments continued to go into the upper chest cavity and destroyed the right shoulder meat. Fragments of the bullet blew past the shoulder and tore up the lungs and guts. I never gutted a more messy, stinky buck in all my life than that one!
The main point of telling the story is that you can load rounds way too hot for hunting edible game! (Duhhhh ...). The second point in telling the story is that I had a 3x9 Leopold scope on the rifle and got hit above my right eye from too much recoil TWICE lying down shooting 'chucks on the other side of the canyon. "Scope STARS" are not a nice thing to "see." "Scope POKES" are not a nice thing to "feel".
To this day ... 53 years later, at age 75, I STILL have a flinching - trigger jerking problem. Even shooting a PELLET gun until I fire a few rounds!
By the way ... I sold that rifle at a pawn shop a few years later because I burned the barrel out with too many HOT Lee Loaded rounds. Longer range accuracy became worse and worse was how I knew.
Thanks Ron !
I Love the .220 swift !!
Hope it makes a come back !
I remember that song from my grandmother, it's a depression song and World War I song. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition aint got time to be a politician ... thank you ron brings back great memories of my family
Another great video Ron! I love your common sense approach and logical thinking.
One thing that has a huge impact in these results is the faster twist rifling used in the ‘super-duper long range whiz-bang’ calibers developed relatively recently. The 6.8 Westerner immediately comes to mind. If manufacturers would equip a .270 Win. with a 1/8” twist rather than the standard 1/10” used forever, it could utilize a heavier, sleeker VLD type bullet and get a lot better performance. That goes for a lot of other ‘standard’ cartridges too.
And sir, you are totally correct, bullet drop is consistent and can be compensated for easily. Wind drift is variable, and can be in different directions at different ranges along the bullets path.
So, I re-barreled my .270 with a 28" 1:9 twist SS barrel. I load the 130gr Berger Classic hunter which is one of the sleekest bullets I've ever seen. With the 1:10 twist the 130gr wasnt stabilizing too well because these "Classic Hunter" Bergers have very little surface area that contacts the rifling. I used to get 1.25 moa Now i get about .75 moa average. Bullet drop is 258" at 1000yds far superior to any other load that I have ever witnessed. Makes me want to buy a 270 Weatherby Mag and try this bullet in that cartridge. The manufacturer I bought my barrel from sells 1:7, a 1:7.5, 1:9, 1:10 and 1:11 twist barrels. I wanted to get a 1:7.5 and load the 170gr Berger VLD's but I found that I have much flatter trajectory with the 130gr berger out to well over a thousand yards
I had a 1969 Shooters Bible back when thats how we learned so much about Guns and Cartridges.In the back of it was an article how the Native Alaskans used nothing but the 220 Swift on Caribou.It said it would drop a Caribou faster than any other caliber they had ever used.They said it would drop right on the spot or just spin in a circle and then drop after that.Said it was the cheapest to shoot and the most effective.It was just a 2 page article but was so well written I have never forgotten it the Story and then talking about how it preformed was so amazing.It said the speed at which it hit them just shocked the nervous system.Really glad to hear you confirm what the article said back in that 1969 Shooters Bible.I read it so much the cover came off so finally had to toss it.That 220 Swift is one great hunting round.Enjoyed your video it was eye opener.
I'll be sticking with the tried and true, and my all time favorite, the 7Rem mag I've been shooting since I was 14yrs old. I've had no less than 6 of them through the years. The one I currently use is a Stainless M700 Rem, 26" barrel, shoots excellent.
steve Puyear i'm with you,i love my both 7mm they haven't proof me wrong yet.
7mms have better resistance to wind deflection which I reckon is more important anyway. 7mm all the way
@@FranzAntonMesmer Yes, back in the day it was the hot ticket to have. Breaking 3000fps was quite an accomplishment in those days. I like the 7mag for several reasons that compliment it's flat shooting ability. It has modest recoil even shooting heavy bullets, ease in reloading and finding components, availability of factory ammo if needed in a pinch, it has great versatility, both in bullet selection as well as the ability to load it up or down. I like the feeling of never being undergunned, even if you HAD to take on the bigger bears in an unexpected, touch and go situation.
Yep ,and the 6.5 x 55 aint no slouch ...
@@BigT27295 No Sir not by any means. I wish It would get more reviews and chambered in more factory rifles.
The venerable 270 appears to be a winner to my eye, low recoil and almost as flat as the 7 Rem Mag. As you know, Ron, I prefer standard calibers that are widely available where ever ammo is sold.
Those are practical choices for most of us.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 Jack O'Connor's baby
I thought the 257 Weatherby Magnum may have gotten a mention.
My first ever bolt action center fire rifle was a .270 Win, hardly 6 months ago. Perhaps surprisingly, I’m not an old fudd either, I spent 10 years in the USMC. I’ve spent A LOT of time behind ARs of various types. The reason I chose the .270 Win is because it’s available where I live. There’s mountains of reliable data about it for the last 95 or so years and it’s more than effective on every kind of game in my state and every state that touches mine.
until the pandemic hits. i couldn't find 270 6.5 creedmoor not even on cheaper than dirt, I was able to find 308 without a restriction on purchase counts. I'll stick to 308.
Love this breakdown Ron. I own a 338/378, my chrony shows factory loads at 3300 to 3450 with 210 grain partitions but I hand load for a more constant velocity at 3300 to 3350. Still my favorite shooting for all big game
S
Roy Weatherby always said velocity kills
@@marigenevogt6583 I IAC a no
@@samryder6291 I like RUTUMBO what do you like
That’s only partly true. It is mostly the bullet. The “sectional density” is the most important factor. The higher the better.
A really good video.
The principles here are simple… as gravity is a constant - 32 FPS^2 - and that constant is not influenced by the weight of the object, the only influence on trajectory is time of flight.
The reason that ballistic coefficient influences the trajectory is because it affects time of flight. This is why we can see the 220 Swift doing so well in shorter range because it's velocity is much higher in shorter range. As we go further out in distance, the ballistic coefficient will have a greater impact on velocity, which is what impacts time of flight.
Also keep in mind that drag is proportional to the square of velocity = twice the speed creates four times the drag. That means that there is a point of diminishing return between projectile weight and velocity. To simplify this - lighter bullets have initially faster velocity but bleed that speed faster to the second power. That’s why there is a “golden ratio” of each cartridge’s bucket weight and corresponding muzzle velocity.
@@JohnyBravo44 Very true and good point. That is accounted for in the time of flight.
Don't forget my favorite overlooked flat shooter, the .243. With the right hand load, it does a + - 3" point blank range of 310 yards.
243 is one chambering I ignorantly overlooked for many many years,one day I was bored and just randomly going through some loading books and various other forms of data and as I was turning page...atlfter page ....after page I came to the conclusion that's one of the most versatile necked cartridges out there with good loads for varmints up to deer and got me a setup for various loadings with a Henry long ranger (I am somewhat of a collector of Henry's and needed an excuse to get a long ranger ....and a 243 so that just came together like that) I got to say it's quite a versatile setup for my neck of the woods , I plan on making it my off property rig for this winter, I'm a hardcore unreasonable irrational 45/70 and 357 mag southern Appalachian guy with 270 being my long range choice for most my life but I'm really liking the 243,wish I'd given it a thought long before.
257 Roberts is about right there with it BUT it is significantly easier to find and stock components for 243
me too. Thanks
Drop a 55 grain varmit round in it. It is NOW a 22-250! It's fun, as your 100 sighted in gun, is NOW sighted in at 500 yards! It's a lot of fun.
My dad's and sisters first rifles we're 243s and my grandpa always speaks highly of it. Whole reason I'm on this video is wondering about why my grandpa likes the 220 so much. He like ackleys book and discovered it's usefulness and he was always a hunter so burning barrels up was never a worry for him
Great episode Ron! It's the .270 for me because of the game I'm after and the topography where I hunt. Whitetail, black bear, coyote and groundhogs. 400 yds and closer on smaller game 350 yds for bigger animals. I did get a lucky head-shot on a groundhog at 500 yds. That was the first time I ever heard my 13yr old son cuss. He was watching with the binoculars and said, "Holy s***......oops!". I laughed so hard Ron, I didn't have the heart to correct him.
Holy sh** Steven, that was funny.
🤣🤣
@@RonSpomerOutdoors
Jack O'Connor is looking down, smiling. I read him extensively in the early to mid 60's in as you know, Outdoor Life.
👍🏻😀
Good parenting on your part.
I do appreciate your knowledge and I learn something new with each video; and this is from a gun guy that's been in the industry for years. Kudos!
I remember the 220 swift well. It is almost unknown today and It was definitely a barrel burner and a blower upper back in the day. Very Interesting about the burro and horse shooting results with the 220.
i have one and its by far the best rifle i own for killing anything from fox to large deer.
With the proper bullet I would not for a second hesitate to take elk or even moose with it, having seen what it can do to a deer in terms of shock around the impact area i have no doubt it will devastate them
This is my kind of video, love the number crunching, I personally want a .338-.378 Keith/Thompson. My Gunsmith has me convinced there is no better.
220 Swift or 2250 with heavy for caliber fast twist barrels is pretty good I think
I love Covey!! Thank you for putting her on-camera! Grace and Peace
Ron, I had a place in Montana, I'm a lefty and have had 7mm Rem, after using a 30-06 at 3-400yds. I finally found a 7mm Weatherby! It was the flattest shooter hardest hitting I had ever shot! Why did you not include it? CK. the spec's on it! One mean round! I'm sold!
I can assure you that almost no one minds in the least when Covey interrupts a video!
Don't tell her or she'll start dancing on the table. What a limelight hog.
Outstanding analysis and computation young man! I agree with you. Your videos are informational and we'll made!
Much appreciated!
Really awesome video Ron.
Thank you for posting.
The one caveat that comes to my mind which I'm sure you also know is to take that rifle you shoot the most accurately and comfortably.
True,the bigger bore 30's have a better trajectory.
However,the average hunter CANNOT shoot a .338-378 Weatherby accurately and comfortably.
If a hunter is recoil shy,doesn't have proper breath and hold techniques,or simply is afraid of the gun,it doesn't matter how flat the trajectory is.
Plus, rifle accuracy can be improved
by free floating the barrel and glassbedding the action.
One quick story I think you'll like.
Our first elk hunt in Colorado was in the Flattops Wilderness.
Three of us went out to hunt with an outfitter.
I took my Remington .270 Winchester in the black n Grey camou laminate.
Pretty little gun.
I read everything Jack O'Connor wrote on the 270.
I knew I had to use .270 Fail Safe Nosler Partition bullets.
Paul brought his .300 Weatherby and he sold our friend Fritz his .340 Weatherby Magnum.
Now Fritz had never hunted whitetail here in Pennsylvania with anything over his Dads Marlin 336 .35 lever action.
Paul took Fritz to the range several times but Fritz couldn't even put one on paper.
Paul said he caught him closing his eyes.
Well....you're going to love this.
At 100 yds my .270 put 3 shots in the bullseye.After sighting in at 200 yds I could put 2 shots into the bullseye with one very close.
Well....you should have heard the raft a $#itt I got when Fritz n Paul heard I was taking my .270.
Paul called my .270 a groundhog gun n Fritz said I should just buy a mulie license.
Well,he couldn't have been more right about that.
The first day Fritz had a 75 yard shot at a bull and clean missed him.
Paul had a 200 yard shot n missed clean too.
I didn't see any shootable bulls the entire trip.
But I saw mules every day.
I practiced sighting on the cows,raghorn bulls and mules.
I could have taken any of them with my .270 no problem.
What a great time I had busting on Roy Rogers and John Wayne that night at the bar for missing 2 bulls,one at point blank.
Isn't hunting great though?
I told Paul I'd let him use my groundhog rifle.
Hell.....at 75 yards,Fritz would have tagged that bull with Dads .35.
On retrospect,after that hunt,good fortune shined my way and I was able to afford a Weatherby finally.
What I found,as I went to as many Pennsylvania gun shows as possible was and still is,there are so many .300 Weatherby Mark V rifles around used.
Not only that but,I found most were very clean,in good shape,spotless crowns and bores like they were hardly fired.
Upon talking to hunters at both ranges,I found many had .300 Weatherbys at one time but couldn't control flinching and the noise.
I concluded then that the reason .300 Weatherby Mags were always around was guys bought them, took them to the range,and realized they couldn't handle a caliber that large.
You know Ron,I'd like to see you do,if you haven't already,a video on the current Premium bullets.
I have been out of this topic for several years and am ignorant of what's out there now.
Not long ago,the Nosler Partition,Barnes X bullet,Fail Safe
bullet ,Trophy Bonded Bear Claw were in the horse race.
What Winchester bullet replaced the Fail Safe?
Do you think ANY Ballistic Tip bullet is suitable for elk?
What is your favorite Premium bullet?
The best round for expansion i ever used was just like the 220 it was a hot reload 243 for deer it just destroyed the engine room way more than my 300 mag.My 270 sako short mag reload in 150 is an amazing reach out there round.
6mm rem for dear drop to the shot 99% of the time somthing about dumping all the energy into the animal
Very interesting thanks! Just off the top of my head, I was sure the 25-06 would be in the mix
Close. Drive a 115-gr. Berger VLD 3,150 fps and 600 yd drop is 86", 1,000 yd. 306".
I'm not sure if this guy spent time yote hunting or boar hunting or mountain deer and bear hunting. 25-06, 22-250, 222 all guns I choose for distance and flat shooting I've seen many yotes and deer taken over 800-900 yards in my life with these rounds. Most of the cartridges in this video are heavy and I've seen many of these start tumbling at distance except the 50 bmg and swift. 35 whalen is another flat round to me .
25-06 is seriously underrated in my opinion. To be honest it’s all subjective. Someone who grows up with a .270 or 7mm for example will argue they’re the best flat shooting cartridge. I grew up with old military rifles, only sporting rifle we had was a 25.06. Put it in the black all day long at different distances. Soft spot in my heart for that cartridge.
me too I've used 6.5x55 and was happy with it but have always wanted a 25-06 as a reloader 'cause it,s a great cartridge to use and adapt but i agree ron it is the makeup of the bullet at the end of the day and what you use it for that dictates which is best, i always had excellent results on deer with a .222 pushing 60gr pills
and my .243 using 6mmppc rounds to great effect too
But would lose to 257wby...
Glad you mentioned the 7 rem ultra mag, would of like to see how it compared instead of just the regular 7mm mag.
300 RUM as well.
Grate video I have a Remington 700 in 7mm mag! I love this gun the real grate part is that you can shoot bullet weight from 180 grain and as low as 110 grain the 110 grain pill is moving 4,000 fps with a 26inch barrel! Very versatile and deadly! I killed a 300 pound black bear from 160 yards with a 150 grain bullet it didn’t go more than 30 yards running with no heart! I only found pieces. Love all things guns and hunting a well place shot is deadly no matter the firearm! My best friend is a yakima native he has killed more elk with a Winchester model 70 270! Than anyone I have ever heard of! It is a spectacular firearm! They all are. Cheers 🍻 Godbless America 🇺🇸
that's awesome information, Thanks Ron
Years ago there was a fantastic article in guns n ammo mag titled "hits at a half mile and beyond". A fella necked down a 416 Rigby to a 30 cal bullet n called it a 30 416. Results were impressive to say the least and the article was a great read if anyone interested
I think 300 Winchester Magnum, no small-fry of a cartridge, is the .375H&H necked down to .30. I bet that necked down .416 would be a screamer.
Still like my trusty 243 all day. I have had that rifle all my life and love it.
No doubt. I've long loved the 243 Win, too!
I shoot a 7mag. I really love it, with the 175gr mag-tip. Shoots flat and has good wind and rain resistance. I've made some surprising shots with it. I have been studying the ballistics of my 375H&H as a possible long range cartridge. It's not really fast but has a great ballistic coefficient for atmospheric resistance. Thought it would be fun to test.
I use to shoot a 7mag as well. Until I fell 25 feet from my tree stand and messed my shoulder up. Now my 7mag is a creedmoor
Shooting an M2 at the range for the first time, the first thing I noticed was how flat it fired compared to a NATO 7.62 and, of course, how much extra energy that huge round carries. It was raining all day and there were puddles sitting around by the targets and the round would kick up a tall, narrow rooster tail when it hit them. Very entertaining!
Funny that horse cullers in your neck of the woods loved the .220.
Here in New Zealand the .222 has a rich history as the most loved cartridge by the deer cullers of the 60s-80s
✔✔✔ Great vid - I guess its no coincidence that the 270 gets a look in. Value, versatility, low recoil and demonstrated effectiveness for around 90 + years
and easy to find ammo! That said, I've become a hoarder..lol
another great video....I like to look at the economics of reloading for my ammo. As a hunter for almost 50 years, and living in the northeast, a 500 yard shot is a very rare thing. My personal longest shot is 431 yards on a coyote with the 6.5 Creedmoor. For reloading reasons I prefer the old standard 223, 22-250, 243 rounds for varmints and the 30-06, 300 Win Mag, and 300 RUM for deer, bear, and moose. Of course there are lots of great cartridges out there, but like the availability of commercial rounds too.
Big fan of the 270 Winchester. My #2 which I prefer over the light bullet 220 swift is the 22.250. Very fast, very flat, more bullet. I reloaded mine all the way to a 68 grain bullet.
You can get about 3050 reliably out of both the .270 and 7mmRM without damaging them enough to affect terminal quality.
In 1980 I bought two Remington 788 carbine's one 260 and one 7mmo8 , both are tack driver's ! Here in Saskatchewan we have the best mule deer hunting in north America but it takes year's to get a license so I had a rifle built just for long range it's a Tikka heavy barrel n 243 Ackley and my 90 grain sst @ 3900 fps will reach out there !
Never made 788 in 260??
Did someone rebarrel that 788? I don't belieive it was ever chambered 260 Rem. because the 260 Rem. didn't come out until 1997. M788 production stopped around 1982
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Yes heavy contour , I have a 260 reamer and several other's because everything I like is 308 based and I have thousands of 308 military brass from lake city !
Thanks
Very fascinating comparison. I've always heard great things about the 338-378 & 30-378 cartridges. I love my 7 RM but have never had to take a shot beyond 250 yds. I have 4 Mk Vs in 224 way mag, 257 wby mag, 300 why mag, and 340 why mag. I also have a vanguard in 338 win mag. I love to shoot all of them, but for deer/elk I still use my M77 tang in 7 RM. Thanks for posting I just became a subscriber 😊
Hi Ron,
What a great and informative video! When I think of a flat shooting cartridge, I think of max point blank range. It could be my lack of experience, but comparing a drop of 70" vs 95" at 600 yards doesn't have a whole lot of meaning. What I mean is, with either one you need to know the exact range and the exact dope for your rifle. If you have those pieces of info, then you can make the shot with either of them, so I don't see a big advantage. However, a cartridge that stays within +/- 3" out the farthest does seem like an advantage.
Since I'm already here commenting, I'll also say I appreciated your comments on the "invasive species that doesn't belong here gobbling up all the habitat." You have such a great way of always making a pointed argument in a friendly way, as well as taking a complex topic and boiling it down in a way that my 4 year old can understand.
Good job.
I run
204 (24grn)
220swift (52grn molly coated soft points)
270 (115gn hollow points)
300win mag (180grn jacketed soft points)
If I go hunting the first gun always in the truck is 220 swift it’s old school hard hitting takes anything down reliable and I don’t max load all Molly coat to help barrel life and lower pressure
Would like to re barrel and neck the 300win down to 7mm practical magnum one day
Great video thank you
The intro-music let me know that I was going to be hearing a monologue from a pleasant, salt-of-the-earth man, well-versed in firearms, and probably prone to using phrases such as "city-folk".
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These are usually the best sources for shooting, fishing, carpentry, and possibly carburetor work.
Started to watch with reserve, watched it to the end. Well presented!
I am very surprised that the 243 was not in this group. In the Midwest we love this caliber for Deer on down. For many years it was the favored caliber for coyotes. I regularly took them at 400 yards with very little bullet drop.
Love the .243. I have a .223, .243, and .270 win to cover all the bases. For most hunting I'll grab the .243 for sure. I mostly hunt Whitetail, hogs up to 250lbs, and coyotes. The .270 is always my go-to for anything bigger or to shoot long range. I am a long range hobbyist, i don't compete or anything. I shoot out to 1000yds
from my standpoint .243 is a all around bullet, i use a leveraction 20 inch , from 200-300 yeards. even moose , i can take it with a head shot from under 180 yeards
I love my 7mm ultra mag because of it’s ballistics being so flat at any hunting range. The 22swift is interesting with what you shared thank you
I ❤️my 7mm RUM too. I built mind from a Model 700 7m RM I had. I had you run .300 Ultra Mag brass through RCBS dies to make my ammo, but I was shooting it about 6 months before the guns or rifles came out. I have never tried running any heavy bullets through it though,(they don’t fit in the magazine well and must be seated very deep)my favorite load is the 139 gr. Hornady BT pushed by 106- 106.5 grs. of H870, that yields 3500+ and very flat ballistics. This load works great on deer and antelope, for anything bigger well that’s what my .338 RUM is for. Because there is no more H870 I shoot my rounds very sparingly, and safe what little of the powder I have left.
Coyotes I use 22-250 , deer, I usually use 308w 30-06 or one of my 7.62/54r with 174 rn . It's mostly shot placement. Great vid.
i love my 308..... cheap, and puts a smack on deer
.
but that 54R from the LONG 91/30 also does some damage
defiantly more power than my ruger m77 mk2 308
Awesome content Ron. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Loading my .220 cartridges, I used Norma brass and H380. 41 grains as i recall with Sierra 60 grain HP with Fed 210 primer. I would get just a touch over 3400 fps. Very accurate round. Many woodchucks fell.
Thanx Rob. That was the best way to compare, great selection of cartridges!
I would say the fast .22 cals, good for culling by professionals and good for varmints. Here in South Africa most of the guys use .22-243 Middlestead (wildcat) for that purpose..
Thanks K. Good to hear from SA.
I have only hunted with a .303 Lee Enfield when I lived in SA. Was all I could get.
@@nathanlambshead4778 More Elephants have been killed with the .303 British,than ANY other cartridge. just sayen. 😐
Everyone has their favorites. Some more interesting cartridges would be the .257 Weatherby Magnum, .264 Winchester Magnum, 7mm Weatherby Magnum and the .284 Winchester. All pretty good shooters.
It would be interesting to see how some of these other calibers compared. I’ve heard of a.264 being really flat shooting.
6.5x300 beats them all....
.264 win and the .284 win are both flat shooting rounds and with today's better barrels the old hype about burning out the rifleing is not applicable. The .264 is especially interesting as it was considered the flattest shooting by far by many in the industry for a long time.
@@guy1704 when I was a kid in the late 60’s I was obsessed with rifle bullet data. I could tell you the bullet weight and speed with most cartridges made at the time from memory. The .264 Magnum was the flattest shooting cartridge there was. The bad rap about burning out the barrels was a big reason it died. It also had a bad rap about kicking too hard. My opinion is that it was one of the best rounds ever made. Perfect for long range shooting for Antelope, Deer and Elk.
@@lrlapua8035 this has got to be one wicked round right here. When I was a kid, my friend’s dad had a 300 Weatherby and that cartridge was the biggest thing I had ever seen at that time. I can’t imagine sitting a little 6.5 bullet on top of that big brass. Needless to say, I am a huge Weatherby fan.
Thanks for the great information Ron, liked and shared!
Wonderful video. I would love to see a comparison of these main stream calibers to the .375 Cheytac, not sure on the grain weight. Granted it isn't a cheap or highly available round, however it is quite the developmental achievement in terms of holding long distance shooting records.
I'd love to see an ELR round up with the .416 Barrett, .408 CheyTac, .375 CheyTac, 14.5x114mm and the 20/50 Anzio
👍👍👍
If I remember correctly, the 338 Lapua Magnum was created to be more BC efficient over the .50 BMG. The idea was to have the same power and range with lighter ammo and rifles
Some 300-g. .338 bullets rate B.C. as high as .826, but MV is only around 2,700 fps, so 6.5-300 Wby. easily beats it.
300prc, although good luck finding any ammo for those atm
I used to have a Ruger M77 with the heavy barrel chambered in 220 Swift. It was really fun to smack coyotes at 300 to 400 yards. It sent them spinning. Traded it off on a 243 when I was suffering from an advanced case of stupidity.
Retired,
You NEVER SELL a good shooting firearm, EVER!
Had a Cousin who had a .222 Remington. Won all kinds of “Turkey Shoots”.
He traded it to a guy for a .243 and could never squeeze the accuracy out of it
like his little .222. He lamented selling that gun just like you do your .220 Swift.
Huge fan of the .270 and .308. Load them up or down and they always get the job done. The .308 Accelerator's are fun to shoot too at 3,400fps.
Load that accelerator in a 300 Ultra Mag with a compressed load have a real hot powder but you might have to replace the bullet with a full metal jacket or armor-piercing round as a normal bullet will melt cuz it makes so much heat as it go so fast in the air.
@@jackdundon2261I’ve shot them sabots with a 300 win mag and 55 grain bullets at about 5000 fps
I usually hunted in heavy brush where the norm was 50 to 100 yds., 150 was once in a while in a meadow. I usually used my 40-82 or 45-70. Slow heavy bullet, silver dollar hole, = down where they stood. Plus you didn't end up with a bunch of blood shot meat, and didn't have to pack the pieces up out of a canyon they ran into to bleed out. I started hunting with my Grand Father in the 50's, he taught me old school.
That 7mm rem mag is a hellova good choice! For most, economics and distance are the real key factors in shooting
For hunting purpose over 500 yard .28 nosler whit 175 Eld-X is my choice , under that 300 wsm
I love my 250. Savage. Reliable, shoots straight. Dosent break my shoulder like my 300. Win mag.
The swift never disappoints.😊
Just looking at 600 yards, the 243 Winchester with factory loaded 58 gr V-MAX is flatter shooting than the 220 Swift in your video!
for all around hunting, i have always been partial to the .243 it's always worked well for me. not outstanding in any category, but solid performance in most of them. now i also should say that i've never _"crunched numbers"_ for this round, so my opinion is based entirely on personal experience.
Shot placement and the 243 is GREAT. I have taken a lot of trophy mule bucks with one. And a couple big bull elk. shot placement is critical though.
These videos are invaluable I am going through and watching all of them.
impressed that the 270 Win. seemed to hang in there with the others. There are bullets with over a .6 BC in .277 caliber 140/150gr.
257 Weatherby would be interesting to see how it compares with the 85s and with the 120-135s
interesting stuff
My thoughts exactly
Why never the new 204 at 4335fpsm?
HOW about some specs on the 204 at 4335 ft per sec must vel?
With custom bullets, custom twist barrel, and custom loads it would move up. His 270 load falls behind the 6.8 Western for that very reason. 6.8 is shooting significantly higher BC bullets at higher speed. The disadvantange of shooting game at such long ranges is the trip recovering them. Varmints, including those that the 50 BMG was designed for, can be left as carrion, but game animals should be harvested.
I have my dads 257 and its always ben my fav I love it
Another great video, Just one comment: As bullet weight and velocity go up so goes recoil. I can shoot a LOT more 7m/m Rem Mag than I can shoot 338-378 Weatherby! Thanks!
Very interesting. You did an excellent job of explaining these cartridges, thank you.
From Missouri
Thanks for watching!
30-378 was a good selection for another 1,000 yard gun. Excellent presentation.
I am always curious about the experiences shooters have had with their 30-378's in terms of extensive testing of ballistics, barrel life, target response...and accuracy et al., if you have some to share?
@@cheryltysver6132 'Target response', amusing. From the muzzle to 1,000 yards, an unequaled mid-range trajectory in bullet weight ranges from 190 - 250 grains. Considering all bullets within that category have high BC / SD already, heavier, longer match grade bullets are extremely high. For instance, 225 grain ELD Match: G1 B.C. : 0.777; G7 B.C.: 0.397 --- moving beyond 1,000 yards consider 338 Lapua or various wildcat creations should those be accessible to you.
Thank you for a great channel! I have been curious if anyone has thought to list the most efficient cartridges. I had assumed the 6.5 grendel, the 6.5x55, etc. Reasonable recoil (under 25lbs energy) , 300 yard accuracy for hunting etc.
It's an amazing deer and hog gun
You were right on about the bullet choice in the swift. My brother has a 220 swift and has taken some big whitetail with it. Its a great varmint gun also. Its all in ammo choice. Its still readily available by several ammo producers. And in different weights and types. Another great video with lots of insight
I’m in love with my 7 mag. It was given to me by my uncle and he was a pretty wise man.
I usually don't watch super long videos but this guy has quality content and delivery. #1 gun guy even though he loves hating on the 308.
Another example how the 7mm REM Mag (or many other 7mm mags like the Weatherby version) really are among the best if not the best all around hunting cartridge. That said, I like them all! Good shooting everyone and greetings from Saskatchewan.
I think it all depends on the type of hunting and personal preference, I like the 270 but I also Iike the 30 06 also which is considered the most popular hunting cartridge, one of my favorites is the 220 swift for varmints
.257 Weatherby or the 6.5 Weatherby would be good ones to look at. 26 or 28 Nosler maybe
Wiseman
6.5-300 magnum what you're referring to?
@@exothermal.sprocket yes
@@richardwoodworth549 Thought so. Cool.
My first thought was 6.5 300 Weatherby
I have used my 40 year old 220 swift for many animals where legally allowed. It will drop javelina ,deer, antelope ,and all sorts of creatures great and small. Like you said it is in bullet selection. And my barrel checks out perfect.
I have been using a Weatherby 270 WIN for the last 4 years. Hornady Superformance 130 gr SST with the following ballistics. 3200 fps, 100 yds +1.2", 200 yds 0.0", 300 yds -5.7", 400 yds -16.7", 500 yds -33.7". I zero at 200 yds and adjust for windage only out to 225 yds. Since I live and hunt in the southeast I pick this setup and have never been disappointed. Deer & Hogs have never required a second shot.
I have read where throat erosion from the 220 Swift has been greatly reduced using modern technology and stainless barrels, if you are doing substantial culling maybe going through 60-100 rounds a day my 270 soon gets replaced with my 204 both for cost and shoulder damage, living in Australia its not uncommon to shoot wearing just a T shirt no padding there. Bullet placement is king.
Yes I have a 270 and a 280 idetenticle Rugars. Love them both but that 204 is awsome for a small bore. And I can hit with mine. Accuracy means everything.
The 204 shoots flatter than the 220 swift. I don’t know why he didn’t include it. There’s an article you can look up “Clash of the speed demons rifles”. Ballistics charts even show it’s flatter especially with Hornadys new Superformance loads.
@@jamesbarron1202 thanks for the info freind.
I watched a lady bounty hunting coyotes with a Sako in .220 Swift. She was very successful out to 300 yards, all day long. Of course coyotes aren't considered "big" game but they are known to be "wiley"... 😜
I love my Remington Model 70 .220 swift.. the barrel has Ben serviced by Remington twice in its life.. great to reload too. Excellent varmint round
Thx Ron, for your hard work. That was amazing vid / content
Lotta good calibers to choose from. I like my 6.5-284 Norma for flat shooting lighting swift kill shots out to 500 yards. It's never failed me yet.
You include the 50 BMG but none of the flatter shooting ones like the 416 Barrett 408 CheyTac 375 CheyTac those would have been my guesses
Exactly
The cheytacs would be very impressive
Yes, Poor, you are right. I didn't have time to run ballistics on every potential winner, so went with those I figured most folks would know. Figured guys like you would weight in with other great options. I think the 416 Barrett wins among all the above.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors ' I think the 416 Barrett wins '
well yeah....watched a former SEAL demo the .416.....swear the target was in the next county....the guy shooting .50 BMG at least kept the bullet on the paper....
My dad was a po ackley fan and he was friends and mentored my dad in the late 60’s and I have his autographed book from ackley. My dad swore by his 220 swift and took down antelope, whitetail and varmints.
Interesting analysis, Ron. I was surprised that you didn't include some of the Nosler offerings, like the 28 Nosler. That is a much flatter shooter than the .270. I believe it would beat all your other contenders out to 1000 as well.
I would have guessed the old Soviet 14.5mm but I am not sure if it is considered a destructive device or not. Interesting question! I love my .220 Swift and have owned several over the years. The barrel wearing qualities of it are not that bad if you make sure it cools down periodically.
My brother-in-law and I smoked out a .22-250 when we got a deal on 4,000rds of some hot stuff. We got to shooting way too fast and took it to pieces in half that ammo. Totally worth it since the ammo was cheap and the lesson was valuable.
4 days of some of the best shooting ever. Since then four years have gone by and we still have 1,700-1,800rds left and a shiny new barrel with no wear. 😁
@@john-paulsilke893 I always swore in my youth that I had no use for the .22-250. I reloaded and got a legitimate 4100fps from my Swift with 50 grain V-Max bullets and a 26" barrel. Strangely enough I now have one Swift and two .22-250's...plus half interest in a .22-260 Ackley. To think that I once had three Swifts. It has all been in good fun.
@@hillbillyscholar8126 it’s a 5.56 on steroids with almost no recoil. What’s not to like, (besides barrel burning).
Thank you once again for this great review. However, I must confess I was a little bit “hurt” that you included the 6.5 CM but left aside my own favorite, the 260 Rem, that together with the 270 Win are both way up there among the flat shooters. Always looking forward to your insights and expertise, keep them coming !
If you know the 260 Rem you love it, but it's nowhere near the top of flat shooters. 26 Nosler pushes same bullets 500 fps faster!
@@RonSpomerOutdoors that's like using a 7rem mag and not 7mm rum
Just stratch out where he put "6.5 CM" and put "260 Rem", because they're functionally almost identically performing if we're being honest.
Let's be honest, 6.5 CM and 260 are only really considered flat shooting when compared to the likes of 308 and 30-06; wind deflection has always been their party piece, because modern range finders make it easy to calculate hold over for drop regardless of what you're shooting, but it's impossible to compensate for a gust right after you squeeze the trigger.
VERY IMPRESSIVE- a breath of FRESH AIR . .
Nice vid. Iam a ballistic junkie an love the numbers. But at the end of the day yur average guy fills his frezzer with a 270. 06. 7s. All shoot plenty flat to fill a tag