The Surprising TRUTH about Wood Glue
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Titebond II is the most popular wood glue used by most youtube woodworkers BUT is it actually the best? In this video i'll be conducting an experiment to see how it holds up against other glues with some shocking results!
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Here's the deal. In the cases where the glue did not fail, you are not testing the glue, you are testing the strength of the wood fibers for your samples. Not all pieces of wood are created equal. You might be able to argue that one glue or another does a better job of penetrating, which can help reinforce the fibers, but you were not measuring that, so we don't know.
Bottom line, you do not have enough data to rank the top three glue choices.
Yep, exactly why I said I’m not a scientist lol. Definitely more of a bit of fun than anything else.
@@lionandbear you dont have to be a scientist to get a little bit of stronger wood...
All three glues where the wood failed should be considered equal. If the wood failed, then it was the wood that was different, not the glue.
YOu took the words right out of my mouth
Could also be the ability of the glue to penetrate into the grain though just another angle to think about
@@AB-C1 CA glue would be the best in that scenario, because of it's low viscosity
Ho long did each glue get to dry?
They ended up with about 2 days as I didn’t get chance to get back to them the following day.
There are three different formulations of Titebond, I personally think the Titebond 1 is better for your test but 2 and 3 have better moisture resistance. Most of those glues also have a use by date, something you found in the back of the cupboard is probably past its prime.
Since all three top glues all suffered wood failure instead of glue failure it would indicate that one was not any better or superior to the other. As far as the brand, the CA glue often costs more to buy/use than the PVA glues. In our area, Titebond and Gorilla are basically the same price - so, I will use the one that is "in stock" when I go to get some. Also, in our area, I can get Titebond in the gallon size but have not seen Gorilla in that size.
Definitely all good points worth considering. Cost is an important factor that I’d not taken into account for this experiment but may do another where I’ll factor this into it as it’ll likely change the results
I think titebond has a longer shelf-life than polyurethan (gorilla), so I bought the gallon and it has lasted for years....
The channel Project Farm did a great comparison of wood glues including Titebond 2 and Gorilla. I highly suggest it. In that video, Elmer’s Max, Titebond 2, and Titebond 3 came out on top.
Interesting. I’ll give it a watch, thanks!
End grain gluing does not represent appropriate joinery. Try gluing them edge on or create a proper joint [lap, mortice and tenon etc] then try to make them fail
I agree but it does represent common joinery for people working on things at home. The end grain held up surprisingly well though, wouldn’t you agree? I maybe doing another test in the future and will test some proper joints. I’ll need more weights though! 😂
Yeah, unfortunately I stopped watching at that point. End grain should (almost) never be glued to anything without some kind of joinery. Pocket holes minimally, or dowels, if nothing else. If one insists on gluing end grain to something else, there are tricks to doing so, like pre-applying some glue and letting it soak in to seal the end grain before adding more to both pieces. That said, it's still the worst option and testing based on that is kind of a waste of time.
I agree that joinery should always be used and would not normally dream of using just glue on an end grain joint but I’d actually say that this experiment actually busted the idea that a glue only joint wouldn’t hold. It all depends what you’re making but when your making a mitred joint for picture frames or small boxes then you wouldn’t normally use any joinery apart from perhaps reinforcing with splines but clearly this test proves that you wouldn’t necessarily need to do that if you use the right glue.
🙄
Hes not teaching how to connect its level test @albeec13
All good to know. I have to say I laminated some planed pallet planks together with cheaper PVA recently and I'm not all that happy with the result. Some of them seem to want to separate especially when screwing into them. I'm not sure if it is because I didn't absolutely slather it on or because the glue itself was quite old and a little globby.
Personally I'll ditch the cheap glue and use plenty of either Titebond or Gorilla. Messing up a project because I save a couple of bucks on glue is bad enough when the project is for home use but would be a disaster it I ever get to sell a few things.
I’ve used cheaper glue for projects like that when laminating pallet wood planks and haven’t had a problem but you do absolutely need to get good coverage through the entire board and clamp the hell out of it. If it’s globby then perhaps that was the issue. Also worth nothing that if it’s cold weather then the glue won’t fully go off.
The problem with pallet wood you don’t know what all is on that pallet. If it comes from a food plant doesn’t mean it didn’t have chemicals on it before they get reused over and over personally I won’t use pallet wood
I think it depends what you’re using it for. Ideally you’d not want to use pallet wood as it needs a lot of work but for people starting out it’s a great way to get stuck into woodworking without worrying about ruining some nice wood.
There is too much variation in wood strength. even on the same board. I would say your safe with any glue that the wood fails before the glue
I’d agree with that. Titebond definitely didn’t have a poor show, that’s for sure.
Interesting experiment. As a very experienced woodworker, I've had nothing but failure with Gorilla and use Titebond II or III depending on how much time I have to glue up. Also, CA glues have come a long way and are now being made specifically for wood and in varying viscosities although they are much more expensive, yet a little goes a long way. For those who don't know, I recently learned that "sizing" end grain greatly increases the effectiveness of the glue. Mix 50/50 water and glue, paint it on the end grain and let it dry. It seals the end grain so the glue can't penetrate and makes a huge difference in the holding power.
Great point, thanks for sharing
That's what looked like happened here with the CA glue-it wicked into the wood a good distance, making the wood itself more resistant to failure, which would require a lot of the more expensive product to match the good PVAs.
Just my simple opinion and with repeated great results.
I use the 3 major wood glues here in USA.
Titebond 2 & 3 and Also Gorilla.
They all perform well for me, cutting boards, custom "gourmet" plywood and model air planes when large areas or sheeting over many ribs when I need longer work time than CA.
I find gorilla has a quicker clamp removal time and in some cases it might be stronger.
Again I have no complaints with any of these 3.
And my take is if your pinching pennies that tight find another hobby or method.
I buy Titebond by the gallon and re-fill bottles.
Gorilla I can only find in smaller bottles 16-20 oz and I always keep at least 2 on hand.
Thanks for your efforts and video.
Thanks for the comment and kind words at the end. I agree with you in general though, you won’t go wrong with titebond or gorilla really and it was more a bit of fun than anything else. I may try to do a more scientific method for my next approach to testing glue though. Just to put it through its paces a bit more.
Constructive critisism, use a stronger wood, so you can tell when the glue fails, vs the wood. Also with standard 2x4s they are so cheap and have such random milling, that it could just be a very weak section of that particular 2x4, or the board altogether is garbage. Maybe try it with some oak flooring pieces. Wouldnt be hard to find and its much more dense and strong
I did want to try some other woods and may give it a go in another video at some point. The problem is that I don’t want to waste or damage hardwoods that I might use on projects. It’s too expensive lol
The other consideration I had was the thickness of the wood. I imagine the difference would’ve been bigger if the wood was thinner as well. I’d like to do it again at some point but wanted to do this one as a bit of a tester.
I made EVERY mistake in gluing fake headstones ( 3ft. tall by 1 1/2 ft wide ) for my granddaughters Halloween display. I picked two by fours from my outdoor scrap pile. Some wet, some dry, no attention paid to grain direction. They are outside in the rain and snow for about a month a year. They are stored inside the balance of the year. After 10 years they are still crack free. I used Titebond 3.
Good old Wickes! Wickes used to be pretty big in the US, called Wickes Lumber. It was started in Michigan. When the other big box companies started swarming the market here in the US, they closed just about all of them. Their UK brand was modernized and looks a little different than the classic big red and blue W that we had here, but its the same company. I worked for them a couple years back in the 90s.
Wow I didn’t realise that it was in the USA. It’s the second biggest store we have in the uk
@@lionandbear Well, at this point, its mostly a memory here in the states
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Titebond is a PVA (Polyvinyl Acetate). There are generally three types of PVA: type 1, type 2, and type 3. All of them have similar bonding properties within a particular brand. The difference between them is that type 2 is water resistant, and type 1 is not. Type 3 is mostly waterproof (more like highly water resistant).
You mentioned that you hadn't used your big red jug of PVA in a long time. It could be that after setting for so long that it has begun to separate which would affect its efficiency. PVA glues also aren't very freeze stable; very cold temperatures will ruin them.
I have to say that your video was pretty enjoyable simply because I liked seeing the whole "balancing act on the edge of disaster" scenario play out. Nice job making it work.
Yes you’re very likely correct with the big red one but I have still used this on panel glue ups and large surface laminations with no problems so was interested to see how it stood up in the test.
I much admit, the balancing act was quite fun though. Glad I wore my steel toe boots though, just in case!
There's an activator that you can add spray onto the wood for the CA glue that will guarantee it adheres to more fibers. Also, generally, less is more with CA glue. Meaning you want the thinnest layer possible with it because its bond is unmatched, but it's structurally weak, especially in shear situations. The spray on activator also improves the structural strenth of the cured CA glue and makes for a very very fast cure time.
I usually use the activator spray when I need it to bond immediately but I never knew that it actually made glue stronger so that’s very interesting. Thanks for the comment
Fun to watch, my favorite is the Titebond 3, also like E-6000 a silicone glue.
I prefer a yellow PVA glue and have done tests myself. My fave brand is Lepages yellow PVA. It is less expensive than Titebond and especially Gorilla. I have also found that Gorilla glues will go hard in a few months whereas I am using Lepages that is a couple of years old and still pours and glues fine. I have been doing glueups for about 50yrs now and done LOTS of them. Never had a joint failure yet and those I destroyed to test had a LOT of wood and no glue joint exposed. Good enough for me. FYI the Lepages is spec at about 3,000psi and the hardest wood I use (Eastern maple) is rated at 1600-1800psi.
Wow, 50yrs of glue ups is definitely more than I can claim! I’ll look into Lepages
I'm a wood worker and have used Titebond for 43 years. Can't beat it. For model and prototype building, E-6000 is great. It's strong, flexible, and can be pulled apart, if needed. I use it on RC models. End gluing isn't strong, no matter what glue you use. Michael
One of the selling points of Titebond II over regular Gorilla or Titebond original is there is more time to work with the piece before the glue sets with the TBII. Also TBII and III are offer more resistance to the joints failing because of water. Find out what their strengths are and kuse them to your benefit.
IMHO a lot depends on the wood you are gluing plus how you are gluing, IMHO gluing end grain is always more tricky than side by side and superglue types are always better on end grain but due to costs etc not good for general woodworking. I have found standard PVA such as everbuild 502 or equivalent pva to be excellent at gluing up side by side to make boards/panels. I have even used the much cheaper PVA bond to glue up panels and found no difference than using the more expensive PVA's. Polyurethane glue is good if you are in a hurry and have some filling properties for sloppy joints which PVA,s don't have.
I have even used PVA that has 'gone off' so to speak and even that had given me strong joints.
It is amazing how much PVA has increased in price over the last two years, I used to pay around £10UKP for 5 litres of Everbuild 502 (Toolstation) now it is £31UKP. A threefold increase.
I agree. I’ve used that ‘big red’ and a bucket of the same glue on many panels and larger glue ups with lots of surface area and never had an issue or a joint break. I therefore expected it to do really well on the end grain test so was genuinely surprised when the cheap stuff failed so quickly.
I think I mentioned in the end that on large surface areas that I’d probably still use the cheaper stuff but where it really matters or on more high end stuff I’ll be using gorilla.
END GRAIN - If you are a DIY / hobby woodworker make time to 'pre prime' end grain letting it soak in and at least partially drying before reapplying the glue a second time to make the joint.
Yeah I do tend to do that with my projects in general mate to be honest but I wanted to keep an even test with just the glue and no prep for this little experiment.
As a very much part time woodworker, one of the things I like about Gorilla glue is the nozzle that lifts up to allow the glue out and when pushed down, it seals the bottle. The reason that I like this is that the seal is good, so that I can leave the partially used bottle on the shelf for weeks without the bottle drying out. In contrast, many of the others don't seal properly, so after a few weeks of non-use, the glue has dried out and the half empty bottle has to be discarded.
Totally agree Chris. It was the same nozzle on the titebond and gorilla and they allow for a nice even spread as well.
I think this is the first time I’ve watched your channel and man o man, I can foresee you becoming one of my favorites Your presentation, your detailed explanations, professionalism and much more and your respectful responses to the little criticism speaks volumes. Keep doing what you do and you are destined for greatness
Scotty, what can I say. You’ve just risen straight to the top of my favourite comments ever! Thank you so much for your kind words. I’ll try not to let you down.
Interesting test? The only thing that I saw that would move me to buy some of the glues you tested was how much weight they could stand? I glue a lot of wood together in my shop and use Tite bond 2. I don't see any reason to change simply because the joints under normal condition would never experience the weight it took to make them fail. Also you can find it just about every where. Loved your video, well done!
Although they broke on the grain rather than the glue, the ability of each glue to penetrate into the grain could be a factor so I think there's still something to be said for the test. Another variable though could also be how course the wood was at each joint another possible factor so like you said not scientific but a good Layman's test.. and obviously the one that failed on the glue is a no no if you want strength.. 👍🏴🇬🇧
Excellent real world test!
I am not a scientist but I do turn a lot of glue up bowls so glue is important to me. Aside from what the others said about the wood failure, not the glues. There is 2 other considerations. CA is great for tensile strength when pulling on the wood, but not as good when you twist the wood. It depends a lot of the wood and the application of the glue. Too much CA can weaken the connection. I have used tightbond on side and end cuts and it has held up fine in turning bowls, even with hard oak. It is also the cheapest usually in the store so it has that advantage as well.
Very valid points. The larger gorilla bottle I got was actually a couple of £ cheaper for me when I bought it. Although I think I may have been ripped off for the titebond to be fair
@@lionandbear My real opinion is any glue that does not let go at 1500 RPM on my lathe is ok with me. Now if I could trust my tenons as well.
That’s definitely more of a real world test!
Hello mate , thanks for the video. I’m joining to big wood boards together edge to edge to make a bigger board so after watching this I think I’m gonna use the gorilla ultimate wood glue. Appreciate the help buddy
No worries mate. I used the gorilla PVA glue. Make sure you haven’t got the Polyurethane glue as it’s very different. (Glue should be white and not brown). Make sure you clamp the boards really well when you glue them too.
Would be interesting to put hide glue and cascamite into this test, great vid thanks for posting
Hide glue is stronger than the wood. So none of this matters since all the glues are stronger than the wood
I’ve recently got some Cascamite and I’m using it for my next project.
Thanks for the demo as I need to join a 3m two part log store wood roof so really appreciate your help. Cheers.
Just want to warn you folks I just got a new Titebond Original wood glue the pieces glued together and left to cure/bond for 24 hours fell apart the formula has changed also noticed it was also thinner than usual others I know same problem. Glued the same pieces with Elmer's Wood Glue Max holding strong
My favorite, for when it absolutely, positively must not fail, is PL3X construction adhesive.
Did you clamp the joints in the test? Unless it is a low stress joint I never use glue alone I will always uses a mechanical fastener, dowel, or use a joint that increases the surface area like a mortice and tenon etc
Yes I clamped them all and I agree you should always use something to reinforce a glued surface such as nails, screws, dowels or ‘proper joinery’ if you’re doing a proper project.
Titebond II is my choice. At 3,750 lbs per square inch, the wood will give before the glue. I'll be sticking with it.
No offense to this dude, I'm really not trying to be mean. But I think this little experiment needs a bit of retooling. There are SO many variables not mentioned. One thing kept thinking to myself was... How old are these glues? He mentions grabbing the big red bottle out of his cupboard, so does that mean that all the other ones were bought new? I mean, pva absolutely has a shelf life and needs to be kept properly, so if that big red bottle is that old, then of course it won't do as well.
Also, since when is pure adhesion strength even the most important factor in wood glues?
Things like temperature tolerance, ambient moisture tolerance, not to mention how waterproof it is. How long the glue takes to initially set, how long it takes to fully dry and cure, how much clamping force is needed for that initial set. For example, titebond II level glue (Or ANSI type II for US standards) can pretty much handle almost any level of kitchen-type water resistance. I've been using titebond II on my cuttingboards for years and have never had an issue. But If I'm doing stuff that will sit outside, like a butcher block to be used for a grill or a picnic table that will get exposed to rain then Titebond III (Or ANSI type 1) should really be used. ANSI II/ Titebond II would hold up for a while outside, but enough longterm time being submerged in rain will eventually wear down type II, so you should really spring for ANSI 1/Titebond III in those situations.
And lastly... butt to edgejoint? Like that's the one single test used as an approximation of what woodworkers do, no other tests? The reality is that even 40+lbs of strength is enough, because that pure glue alone ain't gonna shoulder all that what anyway. I've always been told that if the wood can fail before the glue, then it's enough and really don't need additional strength. Plus I'm not suggesting that most hobbyist woodworkers are doing half blind dovetails, but most of them are at least supplementing their glue joints with either nails, screws or some type of simpler joinery like dowels or half laps.
I'm really torn about writing all of this, because I hate to seem like I'm piling on an up and coming youtuber. I think it's great to see anyone trying the youtube game out and I fully encourage it. I'm just saying that I think this video might eventually need a 2.0 version, with some other factors and thoughts added in. Best of luck!
Hey Griff, thanks for the comment. Believe me I thought long and hard about all the rest of this stuff but as you alluded to, it’s a big task making UA-cam videos and I wasn’t sure how this would do so it was definitely just me having a bit of fun.
I’d love to try a V2.0 version of this video in due course so may give it a go!
The biggest problem I have with wood glue is what temperature range they are good for once cured. Here in Canuckistan anything in my garage is going to see a range of temperatures between -40 and +40C , Tha'ts -40 to about 110 for the yanks. Glue Joint failure in your examples is pretty disappointing.
Yes a wildly varying temperature can make life very difficult with standard PVA. I have the same problems over winter time. I’ve got a couple of different types of wood glue that I’m looking into at the moment which will alleviate the temperature issues. What do you use?
Great Quality! ;) Titebond 3 is mainly used outdoors im sure, as it has water resistance. Im curious if you left all of the glues to dry equal amount of time and in the same condition. Good video though.
Haha, yeah I figured it out! Thanks for the advice!
I did the glue ups at exactly the same time and left them in the same environment for the same period of time and filmed the weights one after the other so was as close as you could get to being perfectly timed.
I started using gorilla glue originally as it is sold by our local supermarket and as such was reasonable priced. Found it to be extremely effective, but unlike the so called cheaper brands which I never had this problem with, once it had got to about a 1/3 left and I didn't use it for a while, it jellified and I ended up throwing it away. Definitely doesn't have a long shelf life once open whereas my big 5 litre builders merchant PVA is still liquid after 8 years.
Yeah I’ve got a bucket of builders merchant glue that I don’t even remember buying but I’m pretty sure it’s moved house with me at least once! Still works but I’d only use it for pieces with a large surface area as I certainly wouldn’t trust it as well. I wonder if the gorilla issues is based on the glue or the bottle?
I've never used Titebond II before but I use Titebond III a lot and like it because it works well when it's cooler out and setup time is a bit longer. If I don't need to worry about those two things then it's LePage which is probably the same as the Titebond II.
We're the wood pieces clamped after gluing? I didn't hear if they were. It could make a difference with holding strength.
Yes they were glued and then put in clamps.
The only thing to bear in mind is that some glues like the Gorilla wood glue expands as it is curing. This can create a non-brittle boundary between the joint pieces of wood. This is might not be desirable for things like guitar making as it can dampen vibration transmission between the glued wood pieces
You should consider cost when ranking the three that had the wood fail. I’m pretty sure you used half a bottle of that expensive CA glue when you used a small portion of the far less expensive Titebond.
Absolutely, that’s a very fair point. I definitely laid the CA on thick but I honestly didn’t expect it to do well anyway. There’s multiple things to consider when buying and using glue and the price is also an important factor.
Thank you for your effort. I have been building furniture for well over 40 years and have had no problems with the "Elmers products" - Titebond products; however, I have found Gorilla variants too messy and labor intensive. I admit that at my 77+yr age there new, more effective,and usable products, but jI'm just sharing a bit of history with you.. 🤠
Gorilla GLue is tricky, there is PVA for Wood and there is hydro activated filing glue (the original version), and both act very differently. The PVA for Wood is basicly yellow glue so behaves like TB, while the Original requires damp joints for best bonding and has been know to push joints open
He didn’t show how the glues were applied. Yeah he showed he poured the glues, but didn’t show how it’s spread, and if he ever used clamps. If it shows that the wood failed, then that’s the cause of failure. The CA, Gorilla, and Titebond did their job.
I did film all that but it made for a very boring few mins. I spread it out with a silicone brush then clamped them all. Everything was done in the same way with the same clamps over the same day.
Great test, I'm very surprised at the CA glue, never tried due to expense I use Gorilla or Titebond and glad to see your test. Have to love a Big Box Store Home Depot is ours in the colonies, lumber has gone sky high over here, minimizing my project list, for a bit. Thanks again it really helps to know.
No problem, glad you found it interesting. There’s definitely a time and place for different types of glue but gorilla has been my standard one after doing this test.
The problem with CA glues is they fail under 'shock' conditions. When it first came out there was a trade show demo where two 4" metal balls were glued together and lifted with a huge weight below. The contact area between two balls is very small so it was a great demo. But then once the demo was over & crowd went off to look at other stuff he tapped the ball sideways with a small hammer. This broke the joint. He would then wait 10 minutes and do the demo all over again. He sold loads.
Great point. I guess it’s more about the use for it and what impact etc it may receive.
Choice of glue is dictated by so much more than simple adhesion. Factors include working time, glue on your clothes or hands, glue effect on the finish, for example PVA on pine with oil based finishes. & so on.
Titebond II also apparently has more water resistance. Back when I was messing with building small boats that's all everyone used because it beat out every other alternative hands down. But this was 10+ years ago and the Gorilla glue for example I don't think was even around at the time.
Yes for my pd racer I use tight bond 2 in places that won't come in contact with too much water or gets good paint over it, but use 3 where it will be more submerged.
This vid gives me cause to try Gorilla Glue. The way I test strength of wood glues, is how hard it sticks to the cap. I think if you compared Titebond 2 against Titebond Original, Original would win. This because Titebond 2 is a bit more rubbery. You'd probably notice the difference as the weight more slowly pulls Titebond 2 apart.
But was it applied by manufacturers instructions cos a lot of wood glues need moistore i know gorilla glue is activated by moisture the wood glue i used is also activated my moisture i apply glue to one surface and wipe one surfaces with a damp cloth as a lost of our wood glues these day especially the ones they call yellow glue are Aliphatic Resin Glue that need moisture to activate
Gorilla polyurethane needs water but all the glues I used were PVA or CA and didn’t have any recommendations to use water first mate so I believe I did everything as per manufacturers instructions.
I have used Elders Glue All for years. Only $14.00 a gallon.
Ive had bonds with gorilla glue fail over time as their glue seems to decay into dust. Never had that problem with titebond. Gorilla does make a great duct tape though.
Interesting. Is that the gorilla PVA or PU glue? I’ve had some of their tape and it’s definitely a lot better than bog standard duct tape
There are other factors to consider than just shear strength.
How will do they deal with humidity (low and high)?
How brittle are they? Generally, CA is very brittle and will fail quickly if racked.
Some glues start out great, but get weaker as they age. Some glues get more brittle, and/or lose adhesion strength as they age.
A lot of these conditions are what makes Titebond a better glue.
That would all be correct. My test only really tested one factor. I may try some of those other factors in another test. Thanks for the comment 👍
Titebond 3 is my go-to glue, mostly for its waterproof quality but in my experience it’s also stronger than Titebond 2.
Interesting results. Thank you for doing this.
I must say, I have used standard Original Gorilla Glue, at a push, and it also hold up very well.
Thanks Jim. I think I’ll test out all the different types of gorilla glue next to see how they hold up.
PVA glue needs to be shaken up before use because the glue separates over time. PVA glue does expire after opened. For me I write the date and after a year I replace it. If you have cold/cooler conditions you can put the wood glue in hot water before use to make sure you give it the best chance to work and then shake it. Read the labels and TiteBond works down to 47 degrees Fahrenheit, 8.8 Celsius. I use TiteBond III because it is water proof and have never had a failure. Plus TiteBond III has a longer open time for complicated glue ups. I use TiteBond I for segmented wood turning glue up because TiteBond I is more pliable after the glue dries and turning shocks the wood while turning. I dont use TiteBond II because it is water resistant but not water proof.
I think maybe the Mitre Bond glue absorbs into the wood, making a stronger joint?
My local wood store says titebond 1 is the strongest. Titebond 2 is for light moisture exposure and titebond 3 for water exposure.
Someone else said titebond 1 is the best as well so I’ll give it a go at some point.
“CA Glue?, what a beast!” Haha. Love it
I haven't been through the comments on this, but I did a very similar test about three years ago.
I make snooker cues, and I was seduced in to using a 'better' glue for a special quality project. My normal go to was the Wickes you tried, but for this stick I went for Gorilla. What a disappointment, the joint failed, and the glue remained unset deep within the shaft.
I decided to do a test , just as you have, and found Wickes brand came out easily on top, far surpassing both Titebonds' and two other premium adhesives.
I don't doubt your findings and am sure your testing methods were fine, but, they are different to mine!
Interesting. I fully expected wickes to do as well as the others as I’ve always used cheaper glue. Perhaps it was the gluing surface that made th difference?
I bought Titebond here in the U.K. because of what I saw on UA-cam channels. I don’t find it better than Evo-stik waterproof which I’ve used for years. The Evo- stik dries clear where as the Titebond leaves a yellow stain. I wouldn’t buy the Titebond again.
That was my reasoning for trying it too Max. I assumed it was far superior, and perhaps it is in some cases but I think the price over here makes it less appealing.
Gorilla Glue is awesome I use it and waterproof Titebond hard as cement love it
most are good enough, but tightbond 3 is great for glue joints that might get wet.
Way back, the "go to " glue in the UK was Cascamite- no one seems to use it anymore- probably from when Polyvine got hold of it and reformulated the glue -it is worse than useless now. Also by modern standards inconvenient to use- it needs mixing up from dry powder. RIP..
They’ve reformulated cascamite recently since it got bought by Ureka. I actually used it on a recent dining table project and it’s gone back to the original style which is great news. I got a discount code as well so check out my how to build a table top video. It’ll be too basic for your skills by the sound of things but you’ll see the glue in action and find the discount code. I’m working on editing the final dining table video that should be out in the next couple of weeks.
@@lionandbear Hi, thanks for this info- I'll get some of the new formula and give it a go, I have made of lot of furniture back in the day using Cascamite , and have good memories of the original stuff.
Thanks for using kg and lbs not many do. So appreciated
Great test , great information .
With small things i sometimes use ca glue as the clamp for the wood glue. I spread the wood glue as normal, but then dot a tiny bit of ca glue about. So long as i can hold it in place untill the ca glue grabs it, it works really well.
I find ca glue and saw dust makes for better gap filling aswell. Its faster and can be more precise with a syringe on your bottle.
I’ve used it as a clamp quite a lot too. Works great. Never tried it as a filler with sawdust though but have used it as it is to stabilise knots etc before painting.
I've always just used Lepage's wood glue. It works just as well as the others. Recently I bought some Gorilla glue.... Never again. It's not the glue that's the problem, it's the bottle. I can't get the glue out. And the cap is not clogged.
Someone else mentioned lepage’s. It’s not easy to get here in the UK by the looks of things. I have found that now I’m near the bottom of the bottle that the gorilla is a bit slow at getting out but that nozzle works great and I just need to give it a good few shakes. I’ll probably decant it into my glue bot or old washing up liquid bottle going forwards as they work great.
They all should be tested within the same time, testing under different drying times is not not all equal.
Hi Tony, I did indeed test them all within the same time. They were glued up in order, left for 2 days and then tested in the same order I glued them.
How does hide glue "stack up"? Or Gorilla urethane glue? And what happens if you plane the wood before joinery?
Not tried hide glue to be honest. The smoother end grain would’ve been better for adhesion if I’d ran over it with a block plane or something but didn’t want to tamper with the wood so just did it as it was when I’d cut it.
@@lionandbear I'm just thinking of the time I made windows; I glued surfaces planed or sawn along the grain on a table saw with a finishing blade. I'm wondering what would have happened if the playing field was evened that way.
I used to use Evostick, then moved on to Gorilla glue, since it's widely sold. But watching woodworking video's, like you say, I moved to Titebond, and yes it is stronger. Remember that all glues work best against direct separation, and not so well against sheer loading. For that you'd need a mechanical fastening, such as screws.
Absolutely Allan, I’d always use screws or more traditional joinery in general anyway but I was pleasantly surprised at the holding power of the stronger ones. I also used evostick for the longest time prior to this test.
@@lionandbear what do you think about Evostick when compared to Gorilla? Thanks a lot.
what do you think about Evostick when compared to Gorilla? Thanks a lot.
I’ve used Evostick quite a lot over the years and it works well the only issue is the bottle as it has that tiny nozzle that doesn’t work very well. That big Red one was an Evostick brand but was an old one. I prefer the gorilla stuff now but it depends on the price I can get it for as it can be expensive at some places.
Why didn't you test a polyurethane type glue? I have found it to be incredibly good for end grain.
I think I might give one a go next time as I’ve not tried one before.
How did you clamp the joint, and for how long before you ran the test????
Squeeze clamp on a flat surface and left it over 48hrs. Same for all of them mate.
@@lionandbear thanks for the information and reply.
Don't worry, guys. A Millennial is here to re-do all the tests he never saw because he was busy watching Spongebob and popping Adderall.
😂😂😂 how old do you think I am?
Good insight, thank you. Interestingly that three of them were stronger than the wood.
Thanks Paul. I was definitely most surprised about the CA glue but I’d anticipated that the cheaper ones would hold up better than they did.
Interesting results but my issue with the polyurethane glues- Gorilla plus other branded types- is that when air gets into the bottle,with a bit of moisture ( as it always does ) , the surface of the glue sets and bacically you've wasted the rest of the bottle. Is this just me or does anyone else have this problem ?
I used the PVA gorilla glue so can’t speak to the PU version im afraid.
Now be sure that you "Shake Well" before application to mix separation....
😁😁😁
What about all the oils from your sweaty palms and fingers from cutting and handling these small blocks that could affect absorption?
There’s so many variables that could be taken into account. I’ll look to do something more in-depth next but all these variables were the same across the board and ultimately reflect how you’d handle the wood in the workshop environment.
P.S. do I look particularly sweaty in the video? 😂🥵
There’s a lot of talk about glue failure vs wood failure in the comments, and the random variance of wood is a good point, but for me the question is one of joint failure.
Once you eliminate random variance in the wood, it doesn’t matter whether it was the wood or the glue that failed: the joint broke.
I would repeat the test 2 more times, and if there was a clear pattern* of joint failure with 1 or other glue, with a common failure mode, I would opt away from that glue.
If the joint fails consistently when I use glue A (and prematurely compared to glue B), then I’m going to choose glue B over glue A. Of course, if there is no consistent result, then I’m going back to which bottle looks nicest :-p
Great point Steve. I think I’m going to make some more realistic joints to see what the impact of the joinery has on the overall joint and whether one combination of glue/joint comes out on top.
Failing that though. Nice bottle wins every time, like you say 😂
Great to see a UK UA-camr doing these kind of tests. It's so disappointing to watch US-based videos with recommended products that don't make it over the Atlantic...
Thanks Richard, that was one of the reasons I wanted to do it as I tend to hear UK guys saying Gorilla is best whereas USA guys tend to prefer titebond. I think I’ll do some more tests to go more in depth at some stage.
I tried the same thing with tightbond 2 and I let set 1 hour used a hammer to snap the joint and it ripped the wood.if you do this tell the truth.
I told the truth mate and even showed the results. It did rip the wood just not as much as I’d have thought.
where was the _bottom_ of the dumbbells placed on the wood? The further out you place it the higher the lever effect, so I hope you kept that consistent - otherwise the comparison is flawed.. (or _more_ flawed, depending on your point of view :-P )
This can also explain why some of them broke as the tower started leaning away from the bench - that put the centre of gravity further out which increased the lever effect
I did try to pay attention to the leverage forces and always aimed to put the edge of the dumbbells in line with the front of the wood. This way it was as consistent as I could reasonably get it. Definitely not a perfect experiment by any means but I would say that the reason the dumbbells started leaning away was more because the joint was failing as I was careful to ensure they would stand upright initially each time.
Nothing wrong with the testing and I enjoyed the video.
However, the testing was, IMHO, inadequate as a guide for choosing a wood glue.
"Sizing" When using a PVA glue on end-grain you really should use a diluted glue first and wait until things are starting to get a little tacky and then do your final glue-up. That allows for a better bond.
Original Gorilla glue is not hated because of bad bonding but because it is so messy. If you are gluing up something where messiness is not a bother then it's a pretty good glue.
You also have to think about how the glued up joint will be stressed. To put forth an example?
Cyanoacrylate glue is very strong. There are lots of good uses. But. . . A sharp blow is effective at breaking the joint quite easily. So it's a good glue if what you are building won't be subjected to sharp blows. But for some cases you are advantaged by this susceptibility to a sharp blow - next paragraph. . .
So let's assume you are trying to clamp a miter joint together for a picture frame? You can use CA glue to adhere blocks to the frame, use a regular clamp to establish the positioning and when done you whack the block and the block comes off pretty cleanly. There are really any number of uses which leverage what you might consider to be either a defect or a feature.
Another important characteristic in choosing your glue is the open time. It is not uncommon for woodworkers to choose TiteBond 3 or hot hide glue for a long open time - or CA glue with an accelerator for an incredibly short open time.
There simply isn't one glue which is comprehensively the best. The use case determines that.
Absolutely agree. There’s definitely not one glue for all. Glad you enjoyed it though and it’s all a bit of fun at the end of the day. All great comments though. 👍
Would like you to do a comparison to include Evo stik wood glue, blue and green, as i would hope they are superior to Evo stik PVA, which is a multi purpose building additive and not necessarily a wood adhesive...or maybe i have been conned for a long time ☹ ?
...."Stronger than the wood itself", is the claim. And it dries clear.
I nearly did include evo-stick blue as it’s what I used to use for a long time. I didn’t include it as I thought I had some but when I came to film it I had pretty much run out 🤦♂️ I’ll look to include it in another video perhaps.
There’s not much difference between a Woodpeckers square from an Empire. Or a Festool saw from a Ridgid saw. But here we are. Professionals like professional brands. And people with more money buy the things that cost more. Especially UA-camrs 😂
Haha, very true 😂
I say no to spending more! I wonder why that is! Hmmm huh. I Do like professional brands! And without people testing products this could never be the same
Been using Titebond III for many years building longbows with ZERO failures!
Second time I've seen Gorilla Glue come out on top. Feels like a trend forming.
Nice one Ben , what about titebond III loads are using this one on you tube?
Not tried that one to be honest mate. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone has any other recommendations in the comments as I may do another experiment if I get a few new ones.
Hmmm....Great video, I've always used 'Gorilla glue', but I have another go to wood glue, polyurethane glue , you can get it in either 5min set time or 30min, the only down side is it foams up.... and get it on your hands, it goes black and you can't wash it off😂😂, but it goes off in damp conditions which makes it perfect for small workshop's.....
I’ve seen the polyurethane stuff but never tried it as it seems really messy like you say. You’ve definitely not sold it to me just yet 😂😂
Surely for an end grain to edge grain joint you'd use a mechanical connection as well as the glue? I know I would never just glue end grain to anything without some form of mechanical connection such as a Domino, dowel or even a biscuit in a pinch.
Be a much better test of the glues on their own if it were edge grain to edge grain like a panel glue up.
100% mate. I would always use some form of mechanical fixing or joinery but I wanted to purely test the glue only. Ultimately the variables would be too vast otherwise.
@@lionandbear That's kinda my point though. Even the lowest strength glue is probably "strong enough" used in an application where another from of fastener has been used. Therefore the test becomes meaningless as it doesn't matter if brand x is 70% "stronger/more resistant" if the additional strength or resistance is, essentially, ballast.
The strength of the glue becomes much more important when the reliance is on the glue to be strong, like in a panel glue up where you need absolute adhesion.
I think there’s still merit to testing the glue strength as a stand-alone element because you won’t always get the chance to use a mechanical fixing or more advanced joinery depending on what you’re doing and the test proved that in some cases if you use the correct glue then you may not need these. I think it all depends on the application you’re using it for.
I use the Gorilla glue but it does say water resistant where Elmer's says waterproof.
There are some that say resistant if you’re making cutting boards and things that will be washed regularly then you should use fully waterproof but for general furniture etc then water resistant is perfectly fine.
Great video. I'm Gluing stuff this week and I'll be buying Gorilla glue after watching this. Thanks
No worries. The gorilla glue I used was the white PVA and not the brown polyurethane one so be sure not to mix them up as the brown stuff foams and expands. It’s good for certain uses but it much harder to use.
@@lionandbearI think at Screwfix the foaming stuff is just called Gorilla glue and the the PVA is actually called Goeilla ‘wood’ glue
The reason I use Titebond 2 is it's the least expensive indoor/outdoor glue.
CA glue has failed for me on three projects. Twisting motions or a sharp blow (like stumbling into a coffee table leg) can cause these joints to fail. I'll stick with Titebond.
It’s definitely more brittle than proper wood glue. I’d almost always stick with wood glue but CA is definitely not something to recommend for furniture anyway. I was thinking more like picture frames etc if wood glue isn’t something someone would have on hand.
The thing to watch with CA glue is the fumes. If you try and use a lot, and spread it over a larger area, it will burn your eyes and lungs.
Good to know!
And bad for wearers of contact lenses...
If you want it to last then I have proven Titebond lasts at least 20 years. That is just as important as how strong the glue is after one day. Cyano does not last and is weak in shear. If the wood fails before the glue then you can’t compare the glues. I’m afraid your video shows very little that is of any use to me.
I agree. If you want it to last then proper glue is much better than CA. Shame you didn’t like the video but it’s not for everyone.
Some of these failures could be seen as a specific grain that is weaker than the bond of the glue- which leads my to believe all of these glues are far stronger than wood, and that is all this proves, we cannot get a read on how strong each glue is compared to one another.
Not scientific is correct. Scientists know that variability is common in any test, therefore, each glue should have been tested multiple times and an average taken. Also, the adding of weight needs to be more standardized, since the weights were different and could be applied in varying order, and you had trouble keeping them aligned, which applies force unequally on the joint. That being said, wood failure before glue failure would indicate that a harder wood should be used so that actual glue failures could be compared.
Hello from Arizona over in America, the Gorilla Glue I've used in the past always expanded. Does the Gorilla Wood Glue do that too???
Hi! No, the expanding glue is a polyurethane glue which has some useful properties and is better in certain conditions. The gorilla wood glue is just their own version of a PVA formula.
Thanks for giving metric and pounds. Subscribed.
Thanks Robert. I’ll always try and give both. Appreciate the sub
Great comparison!
Thanks!
Well - Titebond isn't toxic to touch unlike many other PVA glues, so it's one of the few effective glues you can touch without harming yourself