One of the most brilliantly acted scenes in whole the series. Thumbs up David T and Alex K for putting so much emotion in this that fans will always remember and be... HEY! WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS!
that look on his face at the very end ....... and that line - "You told me my name ... there's only one reason I'd ever tell anyone my name ..." Oh, Doctor, she will one day be everything to you ... and for however long it is, you'll have her with you - treasure those moments, for we humans, we die. And you have to live with what's left behind ... such sorrow in those eyes
He seems so sad here.. Which is why i was so surprised by how Matt Smith's Doctor reacted when he next encountered River. You would think the Doctor, of all people, could understand, appreciate and LOVE someone who made this kind of sacrifice so selflessly.
I love that we are finally getting to know more about River little by little. When I first watch these episodes I saw it from the doctors viewpoint but now I see it from hers. And when we find out who she is I bet this episode will be even more powerfull.
STEVEN MOFFAT IS AN AMAZING WRITER AND THIS SCENE WAS SO EMOTIONAL! i love the new series of doctor who and the finale was just amazing, cant wait for series 6!
THANK YOU for saying what's been driving me nuts these past few weeks! This is one of my favorite episodes, but now that we know David is going, I can't make any sense of it... even if they show her meet him in one of the few specials left.. it doesn't fit, because she was saying how young he looked.. implying she knew him in this form for quite some time. I don't get how they're gonna work this one out.
Love he character of River Song. Has anyone else noticed that River keeps meeting the Doctor in reverse order? He's meeting her later and later in his subective timeline, but he 1st met her just before she sacrificed herself for him. Next, they met with the Angels and warrior priests. Obviously, an earlier River. She told him the next time they met would be when the Pandorca opened. At that time, we met an earlier River who hadn't met the Angels.
@nellytheninkynonk I think it's more him wanting to correct his mistakes - he saved Donna's life, but it was as if all they did together never happened. With River, he found a way that all their adventures could take place WITH her surviving in some way. He could never bring himself to tell Rose these three words. With River, he DID somehow tell her how much their friendship or whatever relationship they had meant to him by telling her his name.
There are pictures online about the 11th Doctor walking next to River Song... The duo of The Doctor and River Song will be absolutely beautiful if done right
My favorite part is... Doctor: Time can be rewritten. River: Not those times don't you dare. Not one line of it. It's Ok. It's Ok. It's not over with you. You'll see me again. You've got all of that to come. You and me, time and space. You will just run. That really clears up Doctor Who its self. Having a companion and going through time and space.
@TattyBobble When she says how young he is, she clarifies that she means his eyes. Also, the producers have stated that at the moment they have no intention of bringing back any old doctors.
this is amazing how they hade this in season 4 and have been able to continue the Doctor and River's story through the new season. Can't wait to figure it all out
@TheDoctorFan2009 ur right, because when she's talking about her future to rory like that, she's already referring to what happened in this particular episode.
@H4CK3R117 Remember. The way she reacts makes it seem like The Doctor tells her about Donna in the future. She couldn't mention Amy or Rory as they hadn't been thought of yet and the Doctor hadn't met them in his timeline! River presumably knows every companion to come!
To me, this scene shows the genius of Moffat. Sure, he may have not really planned this whole thing out. However, after seeing Series 5 and seeing "spoilers" for Series 6. It just makes *this* scene so much more powerful and poignant. The first time I saw this, I thought it was moving and interesting. But now, it's truly one of my favorite scenes of the new era. It's emotional & moving. It also shows the power of Doctor Who and why this is the only show that can do this.
@sallyjosie *Sigh* River Song is quite frankly probably one of the most important characters in DW. She is A. The one person the Doctor Stays with, B. She's a reoccuring Cliff hangar. People will continue to watch so they can discover Who River Song truely is.
@chrisaira What makes it so wonderful is that Moffat's stories are plot-driven. It's all about what happens next, and how characters' actions make them special to audiences. That's why we care about River, and Jack, and why my breath catches when she receives 11's text message saying, quite simply: 'GERONIMO'. RTD's were great too, but it was all about companions falling for the Doctor. It's not a rom-com, it's Sci-Fi! :D
@Ryzer0191 Yes because in the first episode of series 6, she says that the doctors past is her future so after the impossible astronaut she would then meet the doctor in 'the pandorica opens', then in 'the time of angels' and then in this episode where she dies.
@nisteven actually, his mother, as confirmed by the TV movie in 1996 - which is CANON - as eight has been seen in flashback in 11's first episode, said that he was half human on his mother's side and the novels confirmed that the Doctor's mother was a human called Penelope Gate.
@nellytheninkynonk no i think the only time the doctor could tell someone his name is when he has reached the end of his final regeneration. And shotly before that time comes, he goe's to river and takes her to all those wonderful places, because he knows shes heading for the libary shortly.
The last look of the Docotor...so sad....I hope we will see Riversong again in a few years (I don't want Donna to go so soon), and that she isn't just a storyline that will be forgotten...
@KendrixTermina New hair cut. He could have had it spiky. A new suit... a different colour... it could be possible for 10. He tried to get away from her when he was in his 11th Incarnation because he wasn't sure whether he was supposed to have met her yet, and was scared when he told her that she would be a Professor in the future.
@Landisnicholas The TARDIS exists across all of space and time, so 'she' could have just been seeing the future when she told them that. I think their personalities are too different to be the same person, but River might be something just as mysterious as the TARDIS consciousness. My theory is she's some kind of energy creature that the words "river" and "song" somehow describe. Maybe she'll turn out to be the Medusa Cascade, just for a neat little twist.
@RoyalGuard503 "Julie Gardner was of the strong opinion that The Woman was the Doctor's mother, but admitted there was enough ambiguity to allow other interpretations. Russell T Davies, for his part, generally refused to be drawn by Gardner's comparative certainty about The Woman's identity." "I like leaving it open, because then you can imagine what you want.." - RTD. Until something happens on screen that verifies anything, it's not an established fact.
@nisteven " however if he was part human. Then he would not have thought so low of them, in the first place" we do not know that. His mother may have died giving birth to him and that may have been how he was brought up by his disheartened father. However, we CANNOT ignore the movie as it IS canon.
When I first saw this episode of course I was confused as to who she was & I was sad when she died, but didn't get all emotional. Then I saw season 5 and she became my favorite character, so going back and watching this makes me cry now, when it didn't the first time.
@nisteven in the episode in 1963 he thought of them as Apes, but by his second incarnation he liked them, and the 8th Doctor said "I'm half-human. On my mother's side"
@Jamestopboy The Doctor Who tv movie might also have featured a person who is lying. As River Song points out at least once "The Doctor lies". At the end of the day we're talking about a movie in which the black hole powering Gallifrey is suddenly inside of the TARDIS. The eighth Doctor may be recognised as canon but a lot of the other stuff in that movie has been rightfully ignored.
Such a powerful scene. I hope that we revisit this in the future. Maybe see the final time the Doctor sees her... with a twist. I can only think the time the Doctor would state his true name would only be to the Time Lords, or to someone he loves above all others when he is about to die. River must be very special indeed. Not even Sarah Jane or Rose had a clue about his real name.
it all makes sense now when she meet's matt smith she is in hand cuffs and a army outfit because she get's arrested in the 1st episode of series 5 and she keeps those handcuffs because she knows she would meet the doctor again because she will travel with him for a while in the new series but she didn't no he would be in his 10th incarnation in this episode
The Doctor's "There's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name!", River's "Hush, now. Spoilers" and Donna's "I'll find you!" combine to make a trifecta of "Okay, I'm not going to be able to speak for a moment... and my eyes are glistening because of allergies, that's all" in my book. ;-)
i think river song won't just be linked to the eleventh doctor, but to the twelfth as well and possibly the thirteenth because she keeps commenting on how he is young, which means she must have known for a long time for him to be classed as young now, and she also says how he turns up on her doorstep for the last time with new hair and a new suit. That could mean he's regenerated again because from what we've seen he first meets her at the crash of the byzantium, but those are just thoughts
It is so much sadder watching it now cos we know who she is, i almost started crying watching it today but back when I first saw it, it didn't mean much to me.
@taedonsgirl - Silence in the Library. That is the episodes title, and BTW to anyone watching this they should see a familiar word in that title to the current story that is going on with Doctor Who =)
@KendrixTermina Wife, is not too simple, she could actually BE his wife. It's very unlikely, but this IS the Doctor, after all. Also, when she says "The real you... the future you..." perhaps she is referring to the 10th Doctor at his regeneration... since 11 says in "Death of the Doctor" that he visited all of his companions, it is possible that he travelled with River, and cried because he was dying and she was going to go go the library.
@Stigmatainmypants the doctor did'nt want too be sad when he saw her, he did'nt want too tell her that her was there when she dies in the future, so hes hiding his feelings.
This moment is paradoxically the summit of things to come. The Doctor can't even fit it all in his head...yet. Doctor River Song is getting shifted around. And there will be a day when The Doctor will know her so well, the day that she will meet him for the first time from her perspective. Bad Wolf...dah, dah, dah, dah... The Nightmare Child... The Darkling King and His Army of Never Was... The Pandorica Opened and Silence Fell... When the Lonely God will impart His last secret. He never stops.
Watching this again after seeing, and falling in love with River in series 5, really hurts, just knowing that even though Steven Moffat could write around this death in 'Forest of the Dead' I know he wouldn't, because it would ruin the emotional impact, akin to bringing back Rose. Doomsday made me cry, every time I watched it, but now, after Rose returned, I do not. I just hope River will stick around for years to come, possibly becoming a full-time companion, before her ultimate death.
@Jamestopboy - If you're going to use sources outside of the show as cannon, then you should probably read the 2008 Doctor Who comic book The Forgotten where the Doctor states that, prior to regenerating, he used the Chameleon Arch to create the fiction of being half-human in order to deceive the Master whilst the book Alien Bodies comes up with another theory altogether. RTD's dialogue for the half human/half Time Lord clone in "Journey's End" suggested he dismissed this as cannon, as well.
@SuperFastTortoise I thought about that too. But she said, "look at you eyes...you're the youngest I've seen you." or something like that. She mentioned his eyes, then she mentioned how young he looks. It can be a loophole thingy, lol. The eyes;)
These two episodes, expecially this scene, make you feel somewhat sad if you rewatch them after you saw Series 5. All the stuff they've done, the Angels, the End of the Universe... She freakin' PROPOSED to him (by twisting his own words around, no less) Of course, he's sad about her death, but if he'd known who she was, he would have been as devastated as he was in "Doomsday", "Journey's End", "Earthshock" or "Mindwarp"...
@Jamestopboy Nah. I think she meant Eleven with 'Real You'. I'm not sure whether he even counted River as a Companion by EoT t, and when he first meets her 'for real' in "Time of angels", his first reaction is to try and get away from her REAL FAST, I doubt he'd seek her out - and she mentions him turning up with a "new haircut and a suit". I don't recall 10 having a different haircut at the end of EoT, and he ALWAYS wears a suit, so it wouldn't be anything special.
I'm pretty sure that the photos of the 11th Doctor walking with River Song will be about how they met, well, technically, The Doctor meeting her again, but she meets him for the first time. I just hope they show the Singing Towers of Darillium.
@nisteven The 1st Doctor was an old man. His mother MAY have died giving birth to him, and his father taught him that way. The Doctor may have been lying when he said that law, as Leela was allowed on without any problems, and she was human when you trace it back. We do not know if that is his mother. It could be any good female Timelord, Romana, Susan, etc.
@nellytheninkynonk I think we can blame that on Davros convincing him that he sucks. He already knew that he was going to lose Donna and sent Rose off because he didn't want her to suffer from his 'kiss of doom'. He had truly lost his spark in these specials... But nah, he's got Amy now and she's doing a great job at cheering him up. See Victory of the Daleks.
@Stigmatainmypants Well, He DID come to save her, tough. He tried to avoid her at first because he knew she'd sacrifice herself for him one day.. that makes it a little hard for him to form an attachment to her, and he'd probably prefer it if she stayed away from him, and therefore, alive. But thanks to Amy wanting to see a Planet, everything went how it was supposed to - I mean, she's got him looking forward to their next meeting by ep5 and he truster her to fly the Tardis by ep 12...
Just, oh my goodness, this show. This is incredible, in light of the ongoing River/Eleven storyline. Moffat should pay for my tissues, I'll go broke at this rate.
i have come to a theory. the doctor vehemently loves rose, adores donna, and has quite and understanding with martha. but think about it-all three of them have something in common-little pieces of their character somehow unconsciously reminds him of river! rose's way of compassion and soothing, martha's brilliance and womanly independence, and donna-well- being donna ;-) knowing exactly what makes the doctor tick and how to help him. river was in every aspect of those characteristic
River in comparison to other companions seems to be on equal footing with the Doctor whereas the rest HAVE to question his motives and ideas. Also she is a lot more intimate with him which would suggest they went through a lot together. and then of course there is the name. For you consideration, big secrets are only kept between families or lovers.
@TheHalfofHannah not if he was dying, did younot just hear her say, the last time she meet him what they did. Which ment he did not die, within the time he knew her.
@Timo8071 Yay. He loved plenty of others and didn't tell any of them his Name. I think it was a plot related occurence/ a proof of trust on his part. My theory is that River was once a Minion of the Silence who later joins the doctor's side.
it always feels realli weird that she realises he's known about her death at the very same time he's witnessing it. the whole time travel thing with river makes my brain hurt sometimes
@iammrmonkey The clone in Journey's End may have dismissed it, but remember, this is a different Doctor to eight, that may just be his personal thoughts. The Doctor did NOT have time to use the chameleon arc as he landed, left and was shot down! There wasn't time, thus, he was lying. The novel Alien Bodies may have featured a person who is lying.
this is my favourite scene in series 4 and when he uploads her into the hard drive
One of the most brilliantly acted scenes in whole the series. Thumbs up David T and Alex K for putting so much emotion in this that fans will always remember and be...
HEY! WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS!
That was such a good episode! great scene. thanks for sharing!
"Time can be rewritten" "Not those times, not one line, don't you dare."
The most beautiful quote ever!
'not those times, not one line, don't you dare'
oh my, that REALLY just made me tear up!
"You've got all of that to come.
You and me.
Time and space.
You watch us run"
Perfect. Conversation. Ever.
I love the score to this episode, just beautiful.
that look on his face at the very end .......
and that line - "You told me my name ... there's only one reason I'd ever tell anyone my name ..."
Oh, Doctor, she will one day be everything to you ... and for however long it is, you'll have her with you - treasure those moments, for we humans, we die. And you have to live with what's left behind ... such sorrow in those eyes
He seems so sad here.. Which is why i was so surprised by how Matt Smith's Doctor reacted when he next encountered River. You would think the Doctor, of all people, could understand, appreciate and LOVE someone who made this kind of sacrifice so selflessly.
i cannot get that scene out my head. so sad but yet beautiful.
I love that we are finally getting to know more about River little by little. When I first watch these episodes I saw it from the doctors viewpoint but now I see it from hers. And when we find out who she is I bet this episode will be even more powerfull.
STEVEN MOFFAT IS AN AMAZING WRITER AND THIS SCENE WAS SO EMOTIONAL!
i love the new series of doctor who and the finale was just amazing, cant wait for series 6!
THANK YOU for saying what's been driving me nuts these past few weeks! This is one of my favorite episodes, but now that we know David is going, I can't make any sense of it... even if they show her meet him in one of the few specials left.. it doesn't fit, because she was saying how young he looked.. implying she knew him in this form for quite some time. I don't get how they're gonna work this one out.
Love he character of River Song. Has anyone else noticed that River keeps meeting the Doctor in reverse order? He's meeting her later and later in his subective timeline, but he 1st met her just before she sacrificed herself for him. Next, they met with the Angels and warrior priests. Obviously, an earlier River. She told him the next time they met would be when the Pandorca opened. At that time, we met an earlier River who hadn't met the Angels.
@nellytheninkynonk I think it's more him wanting to correct his mistakes - he saved Donna's life, but it was as if all they did together never happened. With River, he found a way that all their adventures could take place WITH her surviving in some way. He could never bring himself to tell Rose these three words. With River, he DID somehow tell her how much their friendship or whatever relationship they had meant to him by telling her his name.
"You watch us run."
This was such a great episode ... and even more meaningful now that we (partly) know River Song.
omg this episode made me cry a lot, especially during this part.
Sad sad moment, I think I'm going to cry. Murry Gold's music makes this even better.
There are pictures online about the 11th Doctor walking next to River Song... The duo of The Doctor and River Song will be absolutely beautiful if done right
I bloody love River Song and wish the BBC would give her, her own spinoff series.
My favorite part is...
Doctor: Time can be rewritten.
River: Not those times don't you dare. Not one line of it. It's Ok. It's Ok. It's not over with you. You'll see me again. You've got all of that to come. You and me, time and space. You will just run.
That really clears up Doctor Who its self. Having a companion and going through time and space.
@TattyBobble When she says how young he is, she clarifies that she means his eyes. Also, the producers have stated that at the moment they have no intention of bringing back any old doctors.
this is amazing how they hade this in season 4 and have been able to continue the Doctor and River's story through the new season. Can't wait to figure it all out
@TheDoctorFan2009 ur right, because when she's talking about her future to rory like that, she's already referring to what happened in this particular episode.
the two people who "disliked" this must have had tears in there eyes and mis-clicked!
@w00master Alex Kingston and David Tennant are extraordinary. This scene makes me cry every time.
@H4CK3R117 Remember. The way she reacts makes it seem like The Doctor tells her about Donna in the future. She couldn't mention Amy or Rory as they hadn't been thought of yet and the Doctor hadn't met them in his timeline! River presumably knows every companion to come!
Always loved this bit. Mixed up timelines are fun.
To me, this scene shows the genius of Moffat. Sure, he may have not really planned this whole thing out. However, after seeing Series 5 and seeing "spoilers" for Series 6. It just makes *this* scene so much more powerful and poignant.
The first time I saw this, I thought it was moving and interesting. But now, it's truly one of my favorite scenes of the new era. It's emotional & moving. It also shows the power of Doctor Who and why this is the only show that can do this.
@sallyjosie *Sigh* River Song is quite frankly probably one of the most important characters in DW. She is A. The one person the Doctor Stays with, B. She's a reoccuring Cliff hangar. People will continue to watch so they can discover Who River Song truely is.
@chrisaira What makes it so wonderful is that Moffat's stories are plot-driven. It's all about what happens next, and how characters' actions make them special to audiences. That's why we care about River, and Jack, and why my breath catches when she receives 11's text message saying, quite simply: 'GERONIMO'. RTD's were great too, but it was all about companions falling for the Doctor. It's not a rom-com, it's Sci-Fi! :D
Right from the beginning, I KNEW her last word would be 'Spoilers," Oh god, this was a heart-breaking episode. I loved it so much.
@Ryzer0191 Yes because in the first episode of series 6, she says that the doctors past is her future so after the impossible astronaut she would then meet the doctor in 'the pandorica opens', then in 'the time of angels' and then in this episode where she dies.
@nisteven actually, his mother, as confirmed by the TV movie in 1996 - which is CANON - as eight has been seen in flashback in 11's first episode, said that he was half human on his mother's side and the novels confirmed that the Doctor's mother was a human called Penelope Gate.
@nellytheninkynonk no i think the only time the doctor could tell someone his name is when he has reached the end of his final regeneration. And shotly before that time comes, he goe's to river and takes her to all those wonderful places, because he knows shes heading for the libary shortly.
The last look of the Docotor...so sad....I hope we will see Riversong again in a few years (I don't want Donna to go so soon), and that she isn't just a storyline that will be forgotten...
@Ryzer0191 no, they meet outside the episodes, the last one we saw was the time of angels/flesh and stone, but for them, they met in between
perfect writing from stephen moffet!
Bring on the 2009 specials!!
@KendrixTermina New hair cut. He could have had it spiky. A new suit... a different colour... it could be possible for 10.
He tried to get away from her when he was in his 11th Incarnation because he wasn't sure whether he was supposed to have met her yet, and was scared when he told her that she would be a Professor in the future.
@Landisnicholas The TARDIS exists across all of space and time, so 'she' could have just been seeing the future when she told them that. I think their personalities are too different to be the same person, but River might be something just as mysterious as the TARDIS consciousness. My theory is she's some kind of energy creature that the words "river" and "song" somehow describe. Maybe she'll turn out to be the Medusa Cascade, just for a neat little twist.
@RoyalGuard503 "Julie Gardner was of the strong opinion that The Woman was the Doctor's mother, but admitted there was enough ambiguity to allow other interpretations. Russell T Davies, for his part, generally refused to be drawn by Gardner's comparative certainty about The Woman's identity." "I like leaving it open, because then you can imagine what you want.." - RTD. Until something happens on screen that verifies anything, it's not an established fact.
LOVE THIS EPISODE , BRILLIANT !!!!!
@nisteven " however if he was part human. Then he would not have thought so low of them, in the first place" we do not know that. His mother may have died giving birth to him and that may have been how he was brought up by his disheartened father. However, we CANNOT ignore the movie as it IS canon.
This makes me cry every time, really
Hurry up 2013 so we can see David Tennant reprise his role as the Doctor!
Well your statement is correct since their are some pics now showing River Song with the 11th Doctor.
When I first saw this episode of course I was confused as to who she was & I was sad when she died, but didn't get all emotional. Then I saw season 5 and she became my favorite character, so going back and watching this makes me cry now, when it didn't the first time.
@nisteven in the episode in 1963 he thought of them as Apes, but by his second incarnation he liked them, and the 8th Doctor said "I'm half-human. On my mother's side"
@Jamestopboy The Doctor Who tv movie might also have featured a person who is lying. As River Song points out at least once "The Doctor lies". At the end of the day we're talking about a movie in which the black hole powering Gallifrey is suddenly inside of the TARDIS. The eighth Doctor may be recognised as canon but a lot of the other stuff in that movie has been rightfully ignored.
Such a powerful scene. I hope that we revisit this in the future. Maybe see the final time the Doctor sees her... with a twist.
I can only think the time the Doctor would state his true name would only be to the Time Lords, or to someone he loves above all others when he is about to die. River must be very special indeed. Not even Sarah Jane or Rose had a clue about his real name.
I swear, I always cry when I see this scene.
And just think, soon we'll find out who River Song is, I can't wait.
River needs to become full time companion cause she is just so epic!!! I really cant wait to see who she is in other episodes =) EXCITEMENT!!!
i can't wait to see that exact scene she described in a future episode :D
i miss david so much as the doctor... i wish he stayed just a bit longer =[
it all makes sense now when she meet's matt smith she is in hand cuffs and a army outfit because she get's arrested in the 1st episode of series 5 and she keeps those handcuffs because she knows she would meet the doctor again because she will travel with him for a while in the new series but she didn't no he would be in his 10th incarnation in this episode
The Doctor's "There's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name!", River's "Hush, now. Spoilers" and Donna's "I'll find you!" combine to make a trifecta of "Okay, I'm not going to be able to speak for a moment... and my eyes are glistening because of allergies, that's all" in my book. ;-)
i think river song won't just be linked to the eleventh doctor, but to the twelfth as well and possibly the thirteenth because she keeps commenting on how he is young, which means she must have known for a long time for him to be classed as young now, and she also says how he turns up on her doorstep for the last time with new hair and a new suit. That could mean he's regenerated again because from what we've seen he first meets her at the crash of the byzantium, but those are just thoughts
It is so much sadder watching it now cos we know who she is, i almost started crying watching it today but back when I first saw it, it didn't mean much to me.
@taedonsgirl - Silence in the Library. That is the episodes title, and BTW to anyone watching this they should see a familiar word in that title to the current story that is going on with Doctor Who =)
It means more I think now that we know her from the new seasons! Now it just makes me sad:(
@KendrixTermina Wife, is not too simple, she could actually BE his wife. It's very unlikely, but this IS the Doctor, after all.
Also, when she says "The real you... the future you..." perhaps she is referring to the 10th Doctor at his regeneration... since 11 says in "Death of the Doctor" that he visited all of his companions, it is possible that he travelled with River, and cried because he was dying and she was going to go go the library.
@Stigmatainmypants the doctor did'nt want too be sad when he saw her, he did'nt want too tell her that her was there when she dies in the future, so hes hiding his feelings.
This moment is paradoxically the summit of things to come. The Doctor can't even fit it all in his head...yet. Doctor River Song is getting shifted around. And there will be a day when The Doctor will know her so well, the day that she will meet him for the first time from her perspective. Bad Wolf...dah, dah, dah, dah... The Nightmare Child... The Darkling King and His Army of Never Was... The Pandorica Opened and Silence Fell... When the Lonely God will impart His last secret. He never stops.
@Ptangptang0491 yea, that speech to rory kinda refers back to this episode when the doctor didn't recognize river.
Watching this again after seeing, and falling in love with River in series 5, really hurts, just knowing that even though Steven Moffat could write around this death in 'Forest of the Dead' I know he wouldn't, because it would ruin the emotional impact, akin to bringing back Rose. Doomsday made me cry, every time I watched it, but now, after Rose returned, I do not. I just hope River will stick around for years to come, possibly becoming a full-time companion, before her ultimate death.
@Jamestopboy - If you're going to use sources outside of the show as cannon, then you should probably read the 2008 Doctor Who comic book The Forgotten where the Doctor states that, prior to regenerating, he used the Chameleon Arch to create the fiction of being half-human in order to deceive the Master whilst the book Alien Bodies comes up with another theory altogether. RTD's dialogue for the half human/half Time Lord clone in "Journey's End" suggested he dismissed this as cannon, as well.
@WhoBoy93 This is way in her future. Character developement happened, and she dropped her famme fatale act from her prison days.
@SuperFastTortoise I thought about that too. But she said, "look at you eyes...you're the youngest I've seen you." or something like that. She mentioned his eyes, then she mentioned how young he looks. It can be a loophole thingy, lol. The eyes;)
i think its a bit like eragon when his 'true' name is what he is and sums his hole personality and being up with one word
And she will regenerate. And remember everything. And become River Song.
@iammrmonkey Not talking about, when david was playing the doctor, and on his last episode.
Was talking about during the first/3rd/7th doctor times.
These two episodes, expecially this scene, make you feel somewhat sad if you rewatch them after you saw Series 5. All the stuff they've done, the Angels, the End of the Universe... She freakin' PROPOSED to him (by twisting his own words around, no less) Of course, he's sad about her death, but if he'd known who she was, he would have been as devastated as he was in "Doomsday", "Journey's End", "Earthshock" or "Mindwarp"...
@Jamestopboy Nah. I think she meant Eleven with 'Real You'. I'm not sure whether he even counted River as a Companion by EoT t, and when he first meets her 'for real' in "Time of angels", his first reaction is to try and get away from her REAL FAST, I doubt he'd seek her out - and she mentions him turning up with a "new haircut and a suit". I don't recall 10 having a different haircut at the end of EoT, and he ALWAYS wears a suit, so it wouldn't be anything special.
I'm pretty sure that the photos of the 11th Doctor walking with River Song will be about how they met, well, technically, The Doctor meeting her again, but she meets him for the first time. I just hope they show the Singing Towers of Darillium.
@nisteven The 1st Doctor was an old man. His mother MAY have died giving birth to him, and his father taught him that way. The Doctor may have been lying when he said that law, as Leela was allowed on without any problems, and she was human when you trace it back. We do not know if that is his mother. It could be any good female Timelord, Romana, Susan, etc.
@Stebealinator and maybe THAT is the cause of the "crack in time and space" that is the arc of Series 5.
@nellytheninkynonk I think we can blame that on Davros convincing him that he sucks. He already knew that he was going to lose Donna and sent Rose off because he didn't want her to suffer from his 'kiss of doom'. He had truly lost his spark in these specials... But nah, he's got Amy now and she's doing a great job at cheering him up. See Victory of the Daleks.
@Stigmatainmypants Well, He DID come to save her, tough. He tried to avoid her at first because he knew she'd sacrifice herself for him one day.. that makes it a little hard for him to form an attachment to her, and he'd probably prefer it if she stayed away from him, and therefore, alive. But thanks to Amy wanting to see a Planet, everything went how it was supposed to - I mean, she's got him looking forward to their next meeting by ep5 and he truster her to fly the Tardis by ep 12...
1:09 basically he's saying "I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life with you"
Just, oh my goodness, this show. This is incredible, in light of the ongoing River/Eleven storyline. Moffat should pay for my tissues, I'll go broke at this rate.
There is only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name. There is only one time I could.
@bluewatermonster she could be his mother, sister, cousin, daughter, half-sister or any relation like that.
So beautiful.
i have come to a theory. the doctor vehemently loves rose, adores donna, and has quite and understanding with martha. but think about it-all three of them have something in common-little pieces of their character somehow unconsciously reminds him of river! rose's way of compassion and soothing, martha's brilliance and womanly independence, and donna-well- being donna ;-) knowing exactly what makes the doctor tick and how to help him. river was in every aspect of those characteristic
I am writing a series of stories about River and the Doctor. A lot of of fans write fiction about shows they like, and it is called fanfic for short.
@lillydaher That's because it is
Alex Kingston plays river sing as well as staring in ER and a whole host of other programs:)
Oh gods this makes me cry now :(
River in comparison to other companions seems to be on equal footing with the Doctor whereas the rest HAVE to question his motives and ideas. Also she is a lot more intimate with him which would suggest they went through a lot together. and then of course there is the name.
For you consideration, big secrets are only kept between families or lovers.
"The only water in the forest is the river"
Is river the TARDIS in another form?
No kidding, I love this scene, but the screen cap for this video is quite hilarious.
You're right. I feel properly chastised, as that is just what The Doctor would tell me.
@TheHalfofHannah not if he was dying, did younot just hear her say, the last time she meet him what they did. Which ment he did not die, within the time he knew her.
@Timo8071 Yay. He loved plenty of others and didn't tell any of them his Name. I think it was a plot related occurence/ a proof of trust on his part. My theory is that River was once a Minion of the Silence who later joins the doctor's side.
it always feels realli weird that she realises he's known about her death at the very same time he's witnessing it. the whole time travel thing with river makes my brain hurt sometimes
@iammrmonkey The clone in Journey's End may have dismissed it, but remember, this is a different Doctor to eight, that may just be his personal thoughts. The Doctor did NOT have time to use the chameleon arc as he landed, left and was shot down! There wasn't time, thus, he was lying. The novel Alien Bodies may have featured a person who is lying.
@Bladerunner93 she handcuffed him to the nearest thin. This way the speech could happen and the timeline would remain in order.
best episode of the revised season... well... one of the best at least.
@Shackerrrz No not really. There is still the part where The Doctor gave her his screw driver. So her timeline is much more complicated.
what a fantastic moment