Bad Hearing? Watch This Before you get Hearing Aids
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- Опубліковано 22 лис 2024
- I thought it might be informative to run through my hearing aids experiences for anyone that's thinking about getting them to improve their music listening.
First I'll say up front that yes, definitely, the hearing aids make a massive improvement. They fill in the frequencies that are missing and do that remarkably well. But, and this is the big one, they MUST be set up properly to do that.
The audiologist you go to will test your hearing, tune the devices and then measure what they are putting out, but that can't measure how your ear / brain is receiving that new input. And unfortunately some tend to not listen when you say the hearing aids don't sound right and dismiss it as something you just need to get used to.
I believe that when I got my first pair back in 2014, the audiologist (who was older and very experienced) knew that you can't just go by the numbers, and may have dialed back the high frequencies enough to avoid all of the problems I ran into years later. So when they were set up, they sounded perfect to me. Everything was clear and undistorted.
Fast forward to 2021 and I want to be retested and see if any improvements can be made. I was building my new listening room at the time and thought I should try to get my hearing as good as it can be. As outlined in this video, that started me down a path of frustration while I went to 15 different appointments over the next two years.
After the first round in 2022, I gave up, and settled for the "close enough" settings he had made. The only issues were that the limiter was set too low and the right ear was quieter than the left. They still sounded very good - he was able to get them close to the way they were set up originally in 2014.
So, 7 appointments over 3 months to ultimately degrade the quality.
Ahead to the winter of this year (2023) I decided to try again. I made an appointment at a different place and basically went through the same thing over again.
The new audiologist tested my hearing and then I told him the problems I had before, including the limiter and balance issue with my old hearing aids, and made a point (several times) of saying that the old ones sound great, other than the balance and limiter.
Of course he quickly ignored that and just went about doing it the way he was trained to do it.
I would have thought, even just for the sake of curiosity, to start he would look at the settings on my old hearing aids to get an idea of what they are doing and go from there.
But no, it would be 4 more appointments and two new models of hearing aids before I basically forced him to do that. And even then he couldn't resist "tweaking" those settings, by adding too much high frequency boost, and meaning yet another trip back for yet another adjustment.
In the end I'm still using my old hearing aids, but he successfully got them back to what they used to be when they were first set up back in 2014. Full circle with no improvement, in other words.
New hearing aids have a bunch of bells and whistles such as active noise management that seems to mess with the sound too much, ruining the pure quality you get from just straight amplification. Or at least that's my impression from using various newer models over the last 3 months.
None of the ones I tested sounded as good as the ones I already had. In fairness that might be the fault of whoever set them up, but good luck finding someone that can get it right.
Most of the older audiologist that have years of experience have retired, leaving it to younger people with a solid understanding of the process, but very little practical experience.
They can run the measurements and set up the hearing aids according to those measurements, but don't seem to realize that that's only half of the equation. The other half is how the ear / brain is receiving and interpreting the new input, and the only way to "measure" that is to listen to what the customer is saying.
"It sounds like nails on a chalkboard!"
"Oh, you'll get used to that."
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I thought it might be informative to run through my hearing aids experiences for anyone that's thinking about getting them to improve their music listening.
First I'll say up front that yes, definitely, the hearing aids make a massive improvement. They fill in the frequencies that are missing and do that remarkably well. But, and this is the big one, they MUST be set up properly to do that.
The audiologist you go to will test your hearing, tune the devices and then measure what they are putting out, but that can't measure how your ear / brain is receiving that new input. And unfortunately some tend to not listen when you say the hearing aids don't sound right and dismiss it as something you just need to get used to.
I believe that when I got my first pair back in 2014, the audiologist (who was older and very experienced) knew that you can't just go by the numbers, and may have dialed back the high frequencies enough to avoid all of the problems I ran into years later. So when they were set up, they sounded perfect to me. Everything was clear and undistorted.
Fast forward to 2021 and I want to be retested and see if any improvements can be made. I was building my new listening room at the time and thought I should try to get my hearing as good as it can be. As outlined in this video, that started me down a path of frustration while I went to 15 different appointments over the next two years.
After the first round in 2022, I gave up, and settled for the "close enough" settings he had made. The only issues were that the limiter was set too low and the right ear was quieter than the left. They still sounded very good - he was able to get them close to the way they were set up originally in 2014.
So, 7 appointments over 3 months to ultimately degrade the quality.
Ahead to the winter of this year (2023) I decided to try again. I made an appointment at a different place and basically went through the same thing over again.
The new audiologist tested my hearing and then I told him the problems I had before, including the limiter and balance issue with my old hearing aids, and made a point (several times) of saying that the old ones sound great, other than the balance and limiter.
Of course he quickly ignored that and just went about doing it the way he was trained to do it.
I would have thought, even just for the sake of curiosity, to start he would look at the settings on my old hearing aids to get an idea of what they are doing and go from there.
But no, it would be 4 more appointments and two new models of hearing aids before I basically forced him to do that. And even then he couldn't resist "tweaking" those settings, by adding too much high frequency boost, and meaning yet another trip back for yet another adjustment.
In the end I'm still using my old hearing aids, but he successfully got them back to what they used to be when they were first set up back in 2014. Full circle with no improvement, in other words.
New hearing aids have a bunch of bells and whistles such as active noise management that seems to mess with the sound too much, ruining the pure quality you get from just straight amplification. Or at least that's my impression from using various newer models over the last 3 months.
None of the ones I tested sounded as good as the ones I already had. In fairness that might be the fault of whoever set them up, but good luck finding someone that can get it right.
Most of the older audiologist that have years of experience have retired, leaving it to younger people with a solid understanding of the process, but very little practical experience.
They can run the measurements and set up the hearing aids according to those measurements, but don't seem to realize that that's only half of the equation. The other half is how the ear / brain is receiving and interpreting the new input, and the only way to "measure" that is to listen to what the customer is saying.
"It sounds like nails on a chalkboard!"
"Oh, you'll get used to that."
1. As a husband of an Audiologist, I apologize for the incompetence of those clinical variants. my wife is an educational audiologist and the dynamic nature of the children's atmosphere makes the understanding of life's dynamic nature an individuals day to day.
2. My wife's experience and particularly her Grad School thesis was in wood working tool caused hearing loss.
3. Clinical audiologist can be very factory thinking and less dynamic. typically this is the case for my wife's 14,000 kids.
Lastly, many hearing aids perform the same task but not all are created equal. Music, phone calls, conversations, and parties are different. Do me a favor anyone reading this, don't buy or leave the office unless you are happy. Adjustments will be needed as always but make sure to really speak to your life style and do bring a spouse/friend/child with you for a boost.
Wouldn't it be better if the end user would get access to these settings, the only one that's able to hear what suits best is the person wearing the aids. Most people nowadays know how to use a computer and will be able to fine tune these devices. I understand dat audiologists make a living this way and won't hand the keys to the end user. I've tried three different hearing aids, returned them within the trial period because they do not live up to my expectations. Listening to music, directly from the source (no streaming) is very important to me and now I'm trying OTC hearing devices. Sony CRE-E10 at the moment. Living in Europe: they were not available in EU, imported them from USA. Next problem: the app was not available in Europe on the IOS app site. Managed to work my way around this problem and the app is now installed. In the process of fine tuning them, hope this will bring improvement.
The art is lost. Some smart people dont like taking advice. Was there any problem with tinitus? Sorry dont know how to spell that, but i had it from running saws without protection. But, i took break from loud noise and 6 months later it went away. Did you have any experience with Tinitus? Thank you. It can come back though if im not careful so really try to avoid that.
I'm 66, held back in 2nd grade after my hearing loss was discovered, 4 years of speech therapy, fitted with hearing aids, stopped wearing them between 6th and 7th year of school, tried at 47 years old to be fitted anew with aids, your frustration, thankfully showing here, is the only reason 1st, I'm watching this video 2nd, I'm looking into help again. I'll add that I'm great at reading lips, so that has "saved" me a bit in life. NOW, imagine that frustration you have dealt with times the 50 plus years that I've been frustrated! I truly wished there was an audiologist who would listen, and a pair I could afford as well.
Anywho, that's my round about way of thanking you, more than you may realize, for sharing your story.
Hi John. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm an audiologist in the US and tend to be a critic of my own profession and the hearing aid industry. I'm glad your persistence paid off. These instruments are highly adjustable but many are timid about diving deep into feature set based on complaints. Perhaps my knowledge in audio gives me an advantage. You're right in saying that primary goal is for audibility and intelligibility within the speech spectrum (a much smaller bandwidth than music). Speech and language require more compression and combination of features not ideal for music listening. For musicians and audiophiles, a create a manual mode for that purpose with much less compression, forced omnidirectional mics, more low frequency gain for fullness, and less aggressive noise reduction. At the end of the day, the biggest predicting factor for success and satisfaction with hearing aids is not the product and often not even the technology, but rather how they are tuned and configured (the part the end user has the least control over). If you have a Cadillac that is configured as a Ford Pinto, guess how it will perform?
I have a music mode and it’s also handy when sitting in a tree stand bow hunting deer. The wide response combined with turning the volume up a bit gives me super hearing!
@@thebrianchannel9890Totally agree! My hearing aid app allows a wide range of adjustment of several parameters, but when I've sat with my fitter I've said I would love to have his software!
I'm a musician, have developed professional audio equipment in the past, and years ago was trained in multi-track recording. I understand the application of equalization, compression and expansion including within band limits, as well as limiter settings, so perhaps I'd be better equipped than many to go deep into the software.
Having said that, I have no background in hearing aid adjustment and we all know that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Still, it's my view that the manufacturers are overly cautious in restricting users' direct access to some of the deeper features of the products they sell.
Through some contacts with the audiologists, I had the same experience. They are not compassionate, but extremely sweet if you’re willing to pay the high price. They all said the same thing, you need an audiologist taking care of you and that costs thousands to buy so to get care from them. To me, I think they are brokers, their jobs are to get business for the manufacturing companies, not to help people with hearing problems. Something got to change.
Thank you for this thorough and informative reply
seems 7000 wish for the best , molded, w charger (400 each uncharge, molded, and charger, both) is there any option for OTC for over moderate loss? for Alzheimer pt of mine (nurse)
I've had bad hearing for a number of years and I'm now nearly 73yrs old. I wear hearing aids, they help a lot, but not when you are
with a group of people with a lot of background noise. It can be a very lonely experience if you have bad hearing.
I hear you 100% . Same age , profound loss . Started in Vietnam war era
There are hearing aids that the user can control from a smart phone app. I have a setting on mine that I've labeled "restaurant" that helps me picking out one conversation when in a group setting. I can also choose to set the mics to emphasize sound coming from the front, which can also be useful for speech clarity in noisier environments.
Whether any of that can be useful for your condition is something you'd need to discuss with your specialist, of course, but as it's such an important quality of life issue you might want to inquire. Good luck!
In and out hearing doctors seem to be the thing today, just like all the other doctors visits. No compassion anymore, I'm 80 and so disgusted with doctors treating me like a fast food order. Gone are the day's of people's feelings and concerns, it's all about a fast turn over for the money.
@@thomascordery7951 That is great - If one has the know how in electrics etc! Well done you!
@@llzbutton5608I feel the same way.
My family has been encouraging me to see an audiologist and I've been hesitant exactly for everything you said in this video. 😒
You’re such an awesome, down to earth bloke. Most people would avoid talking about hear loss yet alone talk about it so openly
As a former telecoms transmission tech I’ve found the issue with most audiologists is that they are not techies, but health care professionals. When I’ve tried to explain my issues with technical language the audiologists have mostly been disinterested or didn’t understand. I’ve also had the problems you describe where the audiologist will programme the hearing aids according to what they will work best and not what you want. I have the added problem that I have reverse slope deafness (I’m essentially deaf below 2.5khz) and the tech is mostly designed for higher frequency hearing loss which is much more typical.
There are 2 different "limiters" as you call them. One is the MPO (maximum power output) and the other is the "impulse noise reduction" Sounds like you need a higher MPO and they could have also turned off or turned down the impulse noise reduction. But you are right, a lot of fitters dont listen and you really need to find the right one.
In other words, setting up the hearing aids is both a science and an art. Sound aesthetics depends on the listener, and a professional audiologist should understand both factors in their work. My mother has experienced similar issues and gave up, going without the hearing aids for quite some time. Once I found this out, I insisted she go back (living in silence is a significant risk factor for dementia), and it is much better now. Thanks for this John.
You hit a home run on this one, John. This is absolutely prevalent in the industry.
Got a similar problem. I am an electrical engineer & have a recording studio in my house. You described "clipping" perfectly. Think of a fuzz box on guitar. If you clip a sine wave into a square wave it adds odd order harmonics from here to eternity. That makes the sound bright & raspy. I am looking at a new pair of hearing aids in a couple of days & think I will take my tablet & some music to test on my headphones.
Your discussion was helpful. Thanks. Rex...AKA an old rocker with blown out ears.
this is an excellent idea! i have appointment this week with an audiologist/hearing aid provider. he is two hours away and is the closest widex distributor. i've used two different otc brands and feel like i'm missing out on a lot of the joy music used to give me. this is not a drive i can easily make (we're a one-car family and my wife still works) so i hope to accomplish as much as possible during this initial evaluation. taking my samsung tab s8 with the usb audio player pro app, along with a good pair of headphones and a dongle dac, should give me a good feel for how differently the two hearing aids sound during programming. thanks for the suggestion!
75 yo Canadian man here. I worked as a re-recording mixer in the pro audio side of the movie/TV post-production business in Vancouver for about 15 years in my early 20s ~ mid-30s. I'm fully familiar with frequency EQ, filtering, compression & limiting systems, noise-reduction and the concept of masking, as demonstrated so well by the late Dr. Ray Dolby with his multi-band noise-reduction systems beginning in the mid-1960s. Even in the mid-1970s I was well aware of hearing damage caused by sustained listening at high SPLs, and did what I could to minimize my exposure. At present my only hearing problem is a persistent high-frequency [~ 12 kHz] tinnitus mainly in my left ear, which doesn't mask speech at all, & music is still entirely audible to me.
But if/when I seek hearing aids I will absolutely insist on tweaking the EQ & 'features' of the aids MYSELF - no-one can second-guess the EQ I should have - I need to HEAR it in real time. If the audiologist is not open to this, I'll immediately leave her/his office & not return.
My optometrist gets this - he makes a tweak & asks only 'is this better or worse', zeroing in on the best possible correction, then proves this to both myself & himself by testing my corrected vision with a re-view of a standard vision chart. Works every time & my new glasses are always perfect [I can see better than 20:20] until my eyes drift again in two or three years.
Thanks for your "cautionary tale of woe" with audiologists who don't ... listen.
In most states when you go for an eye exam they are required by law to give you your prescription. You can take that anywhere and have glasses made. Wish that were the way with hearing aids. Get your test results and buy over the counter hearing aids and have an app to program them. That would save the hearing impared thousands of dollars and give us controll over what we hear.
If you have your audiogram you have your prescription. After you try and program your $200 OTCs and realize they don't work very well, I'll be at my office waiting to help you hear the best you can hear with the best instruments to help you do that. And yes, I like nice things so I'm not doing it for minimum wage.
If my job was easy, everyone would do it. It's not as easy as you apparently think it is. It is interesting how the people who invest the most in their hearing have the least problems and love their hearing aids, while the people who buy the cheapest hearing aids always have the most trouble.
$7,500 hearing aids are awesome. No OTC hearing aid will EVER be able to sound like a top of the line Beltone or Phonak or whatever else.
@dnaak Sorry if you were offended. I am on my third pair of Phonak hearing aids. I think these are Marvel's. My first pair were Compilot's. I have used several audiologists over the years. The aids do help quite a lot but are far from good hearing. I wish the myphonak app gave me more control with the ability to reset to the audiologist settings if I messed it up.
My complaint about the cost is that most people can't afford the cost of good hearing aids. Is there no help for them? This is like the pharmaceutical industry charging hundreds if not thousands of dollars a month for meds. Tried to give an old pair of my Phonaks away, but the audiologist wanted two hundred dollars a hearing aid to program them to the new owner. Another Phonak audiologist said the compilot's were to old and they could no longer program them. I am quite appreciative of the fine hearing aids that I have.
Hope this helps. Bottom line for me is I wish there was real hearing help for those less fortunate.
@@dnaakwhat brand have you had the most success with for in the canal??
When the people working on your hearing don't hear you. Over and over again 😢
Truely.
Hi John. You hit the nail on the head! Unfortunately I am not as kind as you are. "Audiologist" are not professional anything but merely sales people pushing a product out the door and telling the customer that they have no idea what they are talking about. Audiologist don't know their back end from a hole in the ground! Wish I never wasted my time and money.
John, I've been following your woodworking videos for years. I've gotten something from each one. I thank you for this timely, for me, posting that steps away from the woodworking.
I'm going for my audiologist / hearing aid appointments in a month. I'm 73 and have struggled with "hearing" for several years. I correct myself when I regularly say, "I can't hear you". That's not the true problem. I change that to "I can't understand you... I can hear all that you say, but it gets blended in with the surrounding sounds". That muddies it all together. An example would be conversing with someone next to me and others are talking or making noise and I can't understand all the syllables being spoken to me.
What I've learned from your posting here is that I need to be consistently insistent on how I want the aids to improve my hearing / understanding. Without viewing this video I might have been reluctant to keep asking for adjustment until I'm pleased. And definitely I should not accept, "Oh, you'll get used to them". Thank you mentor from long distance. Jim
Thanks John great advice. My audiologist told me when I recently got hearing aids that they are only going to be as good as he sets them up for me as I use them. He said expect a marathon of appointments until they are set up properly.
So possibly finding a good audiologist is the most important thing about getting hearing aids.
I think it’s crazy to be having to have so many appointments.. They need to match it to your prescription and then adjust based on how you feel.. it should be done right away
The audiologist’s don’t listen to our challenges that we tell them
@@freddyortiz5625 They must, or they aren’t doing there job, but on the other hand, you need to do your part and adapt
@@kaylasmusicThe testing is good, but as hearing is so complex, different hearing situations call for different settings, and for optimal results personal preference plays into all of that, there's only so much that can be achieved in one sitting. I've found I need to live with a setup for some time to determine what adjustments I'd like to have made.
Having said that, a good consultation in any field requires the professional to really listen to and understand what the client is saying. The way John describes his experience, it sounds substandard to me.
@@thomascordery7951 Right, ya.. but it’s really difficult to describe what it is that you think is not sounding right if something doesn’t sound right,.. it’s really hard.. doing the REM makes sure it’s properly programmed but then if you need other settings, that’s another step
the essence of your experience with audiologists and their patients (time ~ 9:40): "most people don't know anything about anything". i love it ! ;-)
Thanks John. Great analogies from profession to profession. I'm a diesel tech for 37+ years, and face the same challenges with "doctors" actually listening to their patients, and doing what everybody else is doing.
A cardiac surgeon was shocked at the labour quote from his Ferrari mechanic to do a complete valve job. The mechanic said, "I'll bet you charge more than that to fix just one heart valve, and my quote is for all cylinders, including both intake an exhaust."
"A fair point," said the doctor, "but let's see you do it with the engine running."
John, thank you for making this video and sharing your experience. As a hearing aid user, I have also experienced what you have gone through. Every hearing aid professional needs to watch your video to understand what a user experiences and not what their text book says. All the best.
If you get hearing aids for the first time you will be told that sounds such as running water, or paper crumpling will be almost painfully loud but after a while your brain will filter these noises out. Okay then, what other frequencies are being filtered out? I do believe that it is really important to go back for a "tune up" after your brain has adjusted to the hearing aids as other frequencies may be affected as well. As good as hearing aids are now, they are aids, they are not a solution to hearing loss. You will not be able to hear as well as a person with good hearing and it is very frustrating trying to explain to people that even though you have hearing aid, you still cannot hear what they are saying. I tell people that it is like having prescription glasses that are all smudged. Better than not having glasses but not like having 20/20 vision.
Exactly - you aren't going to make damaged hearing perfect, so there has to be a compromise. I think a better approach is to ramp up instead. Dial back from the optimal settings by 20% to start, then slowly increase over the course of a year or two. Like rather than diving right into that icy swimming pool, ease into it.
Paul Hurst the last part is very true.aids will not give back what we have lost 😮.
You are so dead on with what you say... I've been there, done that!! Thanks for your time and effort... I'd like every audiologist to listen to this BEFORE they ever see a patient!!
Thanks for sharing this John. No one is getting younger last time I checked including me. So your words of experience is much appreciated. I am glad you have a working solution.
I have just had hearing aids for the first time. A trained audiologist adjusted them yesterday for me 5 weeks after the initial fitting.
They are basic BTE devices.
They performed well overall during the acclimatize phase but I had lots of scratchy intermodulation products from many ordinary percussive stimulus. Very annoying. Creaking door hinge sounding like gun-shots etc..
So I asked for a second configuration to be selectable. And specifically asked for the 5-8 kHz highs to be dropped about 10-15 dBa. The young lassie did this for me. The original configuration was left untouched for comparison purposes. A very agreeable person for a professional.
Scratchy, distorted noises all but disappeared on this new configuration in similar scenarios to the previous 5 weeks.
AND, I can still benefit from the major improvement in speech clarity, because the whole reason for obtaining them in the first place was because the entire World was mumbling at me.
OK! They are still mumbling, because 'good' diction seems to have become an unimportant part of social interaction and even basic communication. Nonetheless, there was an immediate and significant improvement in my ability to correctly parse words and not mistake 'gate for hate' - and so on.
This is because the vowel sounds are in 1-2 kHz region of the audio spectrum and generally easy to interpret correctly. The consonants are in the 2-4.5 kHz region. Corrected hearing loss in the 2-4.5 kHz region of the audio spectrum is vital for 'clarity' of hearing.
Most people experience mild to profound hearing loss a little over 2kHz. Mine dropped off a precipice above 2.5 kHz. Down to -80dBa at 8 kHz.
Now life is better. Almost no more "What did you say?"
my phrase is, "i can hear you speaking, but i cant understand your words..." i'm sorry, please try again
They focused on the hearing aids, not on the patient.
I had a better experience than you, but I know what you mean about the high frequency spikes. Running water is bad. Forty years ago I played in a pipe band, and I was the guy who tuned up all the pipers. My hearing was declining by the time I was 30. When I finally did get hearing aids, the first few days were very disorienting to me. I would hear someone talking right beside me. When I looked towards them, I would realize that they are 10 feet away. The spatial disparity made me dizzy. I've adjusted, and got additional programs for reducing echos, and for performing music (I play in a much quieter band now). Never perfect, but functional. Good headsets really help, too.
Thank you for telling this story. I suffer from the same hearing loss, but I gave up on using hearing aids because all I tested made my hearing even worse. I still cannot understand why customers are not allowed to do the adjustments themselves. I am sure only when you experiment on your own you will find the settings working for you. The audiologist never experiences the result of her/his adjustments. This system ist so stupid!
So they can have the control of you..
Great video. Hopefully valuable to those with hearing issues and a testament to the importance of not settling!
Good story John! As for the type of hearing aid, I like the type you have and the open domes. The goal is to augment the weak part of your hearing, not "total hearing replacement". I will never need an audiologist because I found some cheap OTC ones with a phone app with a hearing test and granular frequency control.
What are the ones you have? Thanks in advance.
@@zheniatanasova8875 Mine were discontinued, and I believe were replaced by these: ASIN B0CV79LW9X . Of course do your own research, but these would be a good starting place. There's no need to pay 3-6K to the "hearing cartel" when ordinary people have the technology to test and improve their hearing at 5-10% of cartel prices.
Thank you for taking about this. My hearing loss comes from genetics, bad genetics from my father who also started to have hearing loss in his late 40's, as do I. But I built my first Transmission line speakers when I was 16, and I'll never stop!
Thank You John, very informative. I am going in to get fitted for hearing aids this summer, so this video has helped a lot.
I quit getting tested because of lack of understanding ! I hear my lap top with ear pads and head sets fine without any hearing devices also when I sneeze I hear fine until I swallow! No one can understand! Thank you for your video. My children are trying to make something that will text me while your talking then I can enjoy the conversations!
I love my Oticons with Bluetooth. On my third pair.
I have a similar story John. I got the Starkey Halo 2's about 6 years ago. 30 years of drumming in bands and woodworking have not been kind. I started having trouble hearing people and had to ask them to repeat themselves, especially in work meetings. They have worked great for me. I did not like the initial custom molded hard plastic inserts at all, so switched to the silicone buds with holes. I like that I can adjust them with my phone and stream the audio from my phone through them, although the sound is not that great that way. They help a lot when listening to records and at concerts. Like you said, I just need the frequencies of hihats and cymbals boosted. I can't hear those without the hearing aids. They are very expensive but worth it to me. The only annoying thing is mine won't stay in my ears and I have to keep pushing them in. They wiggle their way out when chewing or talking from the jaw movement. I haven't had them adjusted yet.
Stupidly, I didn't follow the old axiom that says if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's like a maze that has the same starting and ending location :)
if they are wriggling out then it may be that the duds are the wrong size. There's a whole range of sizes available and mine stay in fine.
I had Starkey Halo hearing aids as well and liked them. When I had to send my newer ones back to Starkey for repairs, the VA was not able to reprogram the Halos so they are getting me new devices early so I'll have functional back up hearing aids. I'm going to go with the new Starkey Genesis AI in the ear models.
Great video John. I had worn hearing aids for 20 years until my hearing got so bad I had to get cochlear implants. I remember the pain and frustration of having to deal with audiologists when I lived in England. To this day I’m sure that poor settings contributed or accelerated my hearing deterioration. I longed for the day that the customers could have full control of the set up of their own hearing aids. As you know they are extremely adjustable and due to this it would be so great if users could fine tune them themselves, sadly tho I feel the arrogance of the profession will not allow that 🤨
I wear 2 and have tried to get hold of the software they use, so I can tune them myself at home. I've found the cable to connect to the PC for sale, but the software doesn't seem to be available to the public.
Excellent video. I had a similar experience with my hearing aides and wish I had listened so someone like you before I walked into the clinic.
Thank you. This is really well timed seeing that I have my first appointment to address tinnitus next week.
I totally agree with what you said and how frustrating the experience can be. I also have years of audio experience and make sure I go to a shop that will allow me to be proactive in the setting up of my hearing aids.
Extra piece of advice, I would like to give you all is that I run my own hearing test with over the ear headphones to verify that the settings that the audiologist has applied to my hearing aids, actually provides me with flat hearing and not the vocal only settings that their profession believes is what we need. The way I do this is run my own hearing test both with and without the hearing aids after the adjustments to verify that the EQ curve is acceptable to me and sounds as much like my ears used to sound as possible. The audiologist don’t seem to understand this extra step nor do they have a way to do it as they use on the ear headphones or now they use speakers mounted on foamies that go inside your ear. One problem with these full range settings is that it makes the batteries in the hearing aids have a shorter lifespan because of the full range sound that you are asking them to reproduce. Also the new digital hearing aids have “AI” features that actually work without messing with the natural feel of hearing.
I don't remember who said it. But I once read someone saying that I hearing loss is the only disability. People feel entitled to get mad at you for.
Great video John. I had worn hearing aids for 20 years until my hearing got so bad I had to get cochlear implants. I remember the pain and frustration of having to deal with audiologists when I lived in England. To this day I’m sure that poor settings contributed or accelerated my hearing deterioration. I longed for the day that the customers could have full control of the set up of their own hearing aids. As you know they are extremely adjustable and due to this it would be so great if users could fine tune them themselves, sadly tho I feel the arrogance of the profession will not allow that
I'm just at the start of this process so this is both daunting and helpful info. My first appointment is next week. I am in a very similar position and just want to improve my enjoyment of MUSIC! But I want to augment natural sound not replace it. Fingers crossed.
Thank you so much for sharing this. Now all I know about hearing aids, all 100% comes from you. And I am 61 years old and need to do something about my hearing. What perfect timing👍🏼
Thankyou for sharing, I have moderate hearing loss as well. My hearing aids just don't work for me when it comes to music, my solution was just to increase the volume through a set of dynamic speakers but this chases everyone else out of the room. I guess I will have to try again, glad you found satisfaction in yours. Thanks John
John thank you so much for posting this. I realize it's not just me.. I was tested around 2016 and found that I had very similar loss that you described. The audiologist then suggested the phonak models for this type loss, and they were very $$$, and I still am searching for an audiologist that really listens to me. Being a musician, the shrillness and my tinnitus drives me crazy. Hopefully I will find an audiologist that 'hears' what I'm telling them..
Good way to put out great information, Thanks
Audiologists a question: As John mentioned that the settings of his hearing aids were currently mostly fine, can the profile or variable settings of the device be read and recorded so they can be reliably reset to those same values again? With a pair of glasses, that have not been overly abused, the prescription can be determined (as it were by reasonably easy reverse engineering). But it would be ideal to have a printout of the parameters and their corresponding set values to proceed from and if need be returned to for another try - why boldly venture out randomly each time.
Hi John, can you please share the brand and model of the hearing aid you are using? Thank you so much!
I have Phonak Audeo P-90 hearing aids courtesy of the Veterans Administration. The aids are great and the VA audiologist did a wonderful job setting them up. I am 77 years old. Consumer Reports rated hearing aid retailers and the VA was rated the best. I concur.
I found your video very informative. I am a photographer for 5 decades in the music business. I do miss how I used to hear music. I do find that my ear pods pro help, but I don't always wear them. I feel like I got a bit of an education watching your video. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing your experience, John. I have been thinking it might be time to look into hearing aids, myself. It is good to hear your experience.
Sorry to see you had such a challenging experience. I can tell you as someone who fits hearing aids for people, that listening to the client is very important. I can also tell you that fitting for music is challenging, as hearing aids are developed for speech clarity, especially in the presence of background noise, much moreso than music. Regardless of this, you shouldn't have needed so many appointments to get it sorted out. The number one take away from this video is that the clinician you choose to work with is very important. But it's also important not to go into these appointments expecting this kind of experience that you had. Clients should be having multiple follow up appointments to dial things in, and those appointments should involve the clinician listening to the client and making appropriate changes to alleviate your struggles. Hope you have a better experience in the future, and I'm glad what you're currently wearing is working well!
So, plan on going to multiple appointments over an extended period of time. Good advice.
When I put mine in, I don't notice much change, but at the end of the day, when I remove it, yeah, I really notice the change then....I was told by my doctor, once my brain and the aid start working together, the hearing air would be rather seamless, and at this point it is.....amazing little devices. I am glad I have mine.
Great video - I am in the process... Doing research now on what is available and understand human hearing and the tech available. As I am highly technical, I will understand the tech, but what makes good human hearing - the audiologist you work with. Again - great video.
I’ll add that anyone who’s looking into getting hearing aids should do so BEFORE it gets bad and BEFORE they start to have problems following directions. Both of my parents had fairly extreme hearing loss toward the end and especially my Mom couldn’t communicate what wasn’t working and wasn’t assertive enough to try harder. I hate when professionals ignore customer concerns when there’s not only technology involved but subjective experience, which is more important in the end if you want someone to actually use your product.
I was supplied with my first and only ever pair of hearing aids, Phonak ones, three years ago. They are not just useless: they are worse than useless. Apart from being uncomfortable to wear after a couple of hours, I have to take them out if someone is speaking to me. They function more like ear-plugs than hearing aids.
My hearing falls off at 4k as you said yours does. It has made a massive difference in hearing things I had been missing.
Hi: A week ago I was at the audiologist office and after a number of tests, she prescribed me a pair of hearing aids with a quote of $4800, which will be fitted on me a week later. Later at home, I Googled and found the online price of exactly the same hearing aids to be $3200. Is this normal, or am I getting scammed?
Is the $1600 difference quite customary and necessary to cover the service to be provided by the audiologist in the weeks/months afterwards?
Hi John, I have had difficulty hearing when I am in a group, I have been to lots of audiologist tests, and they have all told me that my hearing is good and that I do not need anything to improve my hearing. I know nothing about this and would not know where to start but your experience with them not listening to what you are saying has hit home with me and I will be getting a hearing test as soon as I can arrange one.
I've always had problems following a conversation when there's a couple of others going on around me at a similar level, even in my youth when I could hear bats echo-locating. My hearing aid app has a setting that lets me select which source direction to prioritize. That helps a great deal in my experience, even with my age related hearing loss. Perhaps the right clinic or fitter could find a better solution for you.
Thanks for confirming that it's not just me. My audiologist set up my aids and I was happy but they seemed too loud. The app has a volume control which I adjusted but it defaults back to a default setting when I put them away in their case. I have to use a different phone to adjust because the app doesn't work with my phone. I asked her to adjust the default setting lower which she did but it still defaulted back to just a bit too loud. The next time I asked for a little more reduction, she didn't want to make any adjustment, she told me your brain just isn't used to hearing all you are supposed to hear. Like you, the sound seemed too sharp. She offered to turn down the high frequencies to witch I said why can't you just do what I ask? I'm in here, not you, I know what I feel is comfortable. She finally made the adjustment but I can tell she was not happy because she has a "thing she is supposed to do". I think my aids are working OK for me now. I use them when I watch TV and when I'm in a group setting so I can hear conversation. I hope I don't have to go back to her. I get one year of adjustments with my aids.
Can you please do the over the counter aids ? You listen like a musician. Perfect.
Watched this with the captions on. Lol. Severe loss here and can identify with your frustration of having the high frequency set to loud. It’s really annoying having had a pair like that even with my severe loss in the high frequency area. Very annoying. I’ve never been fitted by an audiologist ( I know I’m stupid), I’ve bought aids online for years and done my own test and sent the graph to the vendor who pre programs them, usually pretty well. Now with Bluetooth capabilities it’s easy to tweak my aids my self and stream music directly to the aids which is really nice. So for anyone on the fence about aids get Bluetooth enabled aids and take a little time to set up the app and you can get comfortable with them then.
Interesting observations. I see some of that same experiences in other areas of health care these days too. Not just audiologists either
Perfect tale, very informative. It is a pity no professional medical practitioner ever hears your complaint, they do what they think you need. I had a problem when my leg was amputated. No matter how long after the operation I said I have incredible continuous pain, I was told it is impossible, there is nothing that can pain. Three years on and I went to a radiologist, who took an x-ray and found some bone splinter stuck in there into the bone marrow that was supposed to be clean. This also took many visits to doctors and cost a fortune before it was fixed.
Most interesting, thank you so much. I am at the start of getting hearing aids, so you have definitely given me stuff to think about.
Costco baby. Less than 1/5 the cost and the audiologist was more professional with better evaluation equipment. Absolutely changed everything. Now my guitar sounds way better, and I can hear my mistakes more clearly! Oh, and my wife was real happy too!
John, you made me think of self-tuneable hearing aids , listening to your story. I don't know how these audiologists tune them, but I could see aids that are tuneable while in ear, via a phone app. You would adjust the limiter as you need, bring up the volume in the right ear, etc, as you need. You could even have presets for different environments - concert hall, presentation, tv, cocktail party etc.
I had exactly the same experience with exactly the same hearing aids. They still won't turn the high frequency down enough for me to use them after 7 or 8 appointments. They tell me this is what their computer tells them it should be set at. Instead of doing what needs to be done so I can hear correctly. They now want to charge me for doing something they should have done the second time I was in. I will never go back to them!!!
Thanks, I have been thinking about getting hearing aids.
This encapsulates the experience we all have in any number of situations where the professionals do not listen to the client. Doctors are particularly bad in this regard, but they are scarcely the only ones.
LOL.......the best hearing aid is to cup your hands behind your ears and the sound will immediately appear in front of you very clear......oh yeah, and I'm 85 and have tinnitus which became noticeable since 1974.....when they tested my hearing in 1995 the guy said I was deaf because with the headphones on I couldn't hear the low frequency test hissing sound in each ear, the tinnitus I have is a contiguous hissing sound.
I got T also. What a pain. I do the cupping behind my ears too. Just the slightest touch of the lobe increases the sound by about 25%
Me too! Ive used my hands and it’s way better with them, I’m turning 62. My audiologist said she thinks mine is from childhood, so I’ve been adapting my whole life. They say having the sides improved brain function…
Remember seeing old cartoons, where the person with hearing loss has a long cone that they put to their ear? Maybe someone with a 3-D printer can could print out some big ass analog sound catchers that you clip on top of your ear. I bet they would sound better than any electronic gizmo out there. I just got tested and sat for from moderate hearing loss, especially in the low frequency range. I tested out some hearing aids and they just didn’t seem to help much. Maybe I should be looking into getting a 3-D printer ha ha.
I can’t wear headphones with my hearing aids it , it whistles
Hi John, I have had HAs for 5 years. I would highly recommend Dr Cliff Olson on YT. He will steer people in the right direction as far a finding a good Dr of audiology. My local Dr is an audiophile and she has me dialed in for music listening. I'm sorry you had to go through this great frustration to get to the right programing.
Thank you for your story. I have been working with acoustic design for more than 20 years (mostly with mobile phone development and headphones). The last years I have started to work on hearing aids. I think there is a major misunderstanding within the hearing aid world. According to my opinion, the equalization curve should not be set after your hearing threshold. (The hearing threshold is normally tested by letting you say when a tone disappears when they lower the amplitude. By testing a certain amount of tones you get the hearing threshold curve by connecting the dots.) Your hearing threshold may be affected by interfering tinnitus (which can be descrete tones or noise appearing in your ear), but that does not necessarily mean that you hear higher frequencies on a lower level if the amplitude is raised above the masking effect of the tinnitus. My theory is that every patient should be presented an equalizer and have a personal control over the compensation curve. Only then, you will be able to compensate the spectrum correctly.
I've gotten a few comments to that effect: let the user adjust the device.
Problem with that is that in most countries (like here in Canada) hearing aids are classed as medical devices and highly regulated. That means only a professional can adjust them.
A few years ago hearing aids were deregulated in the US and that has opened the door to the user having the ability to make his own adjustments.
Haven't watched the video yet, but the thumbnail is priceless😅 mostly because you can see a nuance of a smile, which tells me it must have been hard to keep a straight face for this one and I am laughing out loud over the thought of you sitting in front of the camera with those ridiculous cones in your ears trying to keep it together! Well done! Will watch the video when I come back from work!
Hearing testing and aid retailing is big business in Australia. Shop fronts in most malls often with staff spruiking their services at the door.
This is very interesting. I am very fortunate to still have excellent hearing but some day I may not so I will be cautious about where I get hearing aids and how they are set up. My local hospital has an outstanding audiology department and my wife is very happy with how they fitted her hearing aids... as are any of my friends who got their hearing aids there but, like with most health things now, we may eventually have to go down the private route for the stuff we are paying for in our increasingly over-pressurised, under funded, Health Service.
Best Wishes, Brendan.
Maybe the audiologists over there are working with the same understanding as my old audiologist, that you can't expect damaged hearing to be brought back to 100%.
Here all of the older ones have retired (mostly during Covid) and what we have now are young people right out of the certificate program doing it by the numbers, apparently, without the experience to know that the customer can't get used to something his ears haven't heard properly in decades.
That's a good point John because most of the audiologists have been there for some time. That would make a big difference alright.
B
As a fellow audiophile needing hearing aids, I appreciate your insights and advice. I'm just starting this hearing aid thing, and my losses are from Army exploits and LOUD Music. I have had the audio "bug" since i was 10yrs old (1972). I haven't even seen an audiologist yet, but I'm trying to get a feel for what type of hearing aid to look at, that will work with my music priorities.
I appreciate your insight. Is it possible to safely use earphones when listening to music, along with hearing aids?
An REM test is important. If they don’t go elsewhere. Stands for “real ear measure”.
I did the same thing by purchasing small domes for prescription hearing aids "from amazon" and turned a pair of $200 hearing aids into nearly as good as the $7000 prescription hearing aids that finally failed from old age.
Thanks for your honesty my friend. Very informative. I guess we all have bad experiences occasionally with emm, 'professionals'.
Been there and done that. Mine are still boomy at low frequencies. Getting new ones next week and the fight starts again.
It seems to me that these modern cell phones could perform as hearing aids really well. It would need good mics and good speakers and of course programming. Might even be a great tool to let someone determine great settings for a new hearing aid.
The number 1 job for the audiologists I have been to is to sell you a pair of hearing aids. They follow the prescribed settings of the device manufacturers. I went to five audiologists before one of them would listen to what my goals were with hearing aids. My advice is to find an audiologist who has hearing loss and wears hearing aids. They will be able to empathize with your condition. Your audiologist should test your hearing before and after you have the devices in your ears.
Bottom line lesson here; take really good care of your hearing throughout your life, because I certainly wouldn't want to have to deal with all of this major hassle and annoyance, especially if you get "audiologists" that refuse to listen to your requests or suggestions, even though it's YOUR ears they're attempting to help!
Not just that, good hearing aids are expensive!! Mine cost $7000 AUD and this is my third pair. They seem to last about 5 years a pair
Thanks John. I empathise. I have a medical background and trained in Audiology myself. So I'm particularly frustrated when it comes to all this. I get so frustrated with mine, that I don't wear them half the time. I appreciate my music collection too and aids initially were great for me but I get so tired of intermittent canal blocks depending upon if I turn my head sometimes or you're replacing batteries. We're due for replacement units soon and I'm not looking forward to it. More possible adversity ? I hope not.
I think the best (results and $$$-related) solution is to get an audiogram from an audiologist, and the feed it into an Airpod Pro 2 which to me is almost as good as any $5000 hearing aid pair. The AirPod Pro Transparency Mode feature plus the audiogram input can be perfect for many people, not all but many mild and moderate hearing loss patients. Try it out and you just might be happy with it. The bottom line is that, you decide what is best sound for yourself. The audiologist can fine-tune an much as he/she wants, but if the "best" scientifically proven settings sound horrible to you, what is the use. The prescription audiogram and the AirPod Pro (or any other similar product withe Transparency Mode feature) is a great choice for many.
@Nuuk-Greenland can you please explain what do you mean by audiogram? That looks like a test. I’m trying to put the pieces together for my Mom. Is there a device that is paired with airpods pro 2? Thank you so much!
I have been contemplating getting my bad hearing checked and maybe? get a device. I am honestly hesitant because I dont have confidence that they will work and it will just be a waste of time and money. I am also waiting to hear when the ultimate surefire "bionic" method is invented, but yet, I am 53 and will likely wait forever. My question is, how much did all those visits that you describe cost (5 at the old place, 7 at the new place)? I have to also commend you on your tenacity and patience to keep going to get it to your liking.
Also, are these audiologist office's have settings for environments so you can test them out earlier to get a better gauge on their settings?
i liked and subbed when you said, "i'm an old guy, and i can be difficult (demanding)" and I know things....unfortunately, i dont 'know things'....i'm an old gal, and i can certainly be difficult. i dont know why it's so hard for 'professionals' to LISTEN to their patients!! i DO know what i am hearing, (btw exactly the same thing you describe) but i was never able to convince anyone to fiddle with it .... plus, when i wore the ones they set me up with, it made my ears itch beyond endurance. and they didnt care. it's heartbreaking
I'm fortunate to be able to attend a clinic that specializes in working with musicians, and have hearing aids that can be adjusted from an app on my phone. With that I can use separate settings for voice clarity in noisy environments or for music listening. I've enjoyed really great consultations with both the audiologist and the fitter at that clinic where each of them really listen to what I'm saying.
If there's a similar clinic near you, you might have a better experience than you've had so far.
My hearing loss is light, the kind that comes with age, so my situation is admittedly a little different. When I was much younger playing in rock bands I always took steps to protect my hearing. The "high" frequency roll-off curve (the industry only tests and corrects up to 8kHz) does have a very slight dip at 4kHz of a couple of dB, so I don't doubt that a tiny bit of my loss is noise induced.
Now when I perform in moderately loud bands, I've started using in-ear monitors rather than my hearing aids. That's because hearing aids are seldom designed to protect hearing from loud noise beyond reducing gain from the aids themselves. After all, low-mid to high frequency sounds in the environment bypass anything that doesn't completely block the ear canal. My next step then will be to work on equalizing for maximum clarity the signal coming to my in-ears.
Good luck, and thank you for posting this!
I hear what you're saying ( pun intended )
I've suffered hearing loss for around 40 years, nerve damage and separation of the small ossicles, so anything with base can be normal one minute and then punching me in the head the next, I'm waiting for an operation to help, I've had tinnitus in My right ear since November 22 because of hearing loss and I'm still waiting to go on a hearing aid trial to see if it helps, NHS in the UK is good but god damn it's slow, good luck with the new aids and hope the channel is getting stronger by the day 👍
Very informative. I’m 76. I got my aids about 2 years ago. I’m not into listening to music like you, but feel your frustration. My audiologist is an older woman and I’d like to think she listens to me, but conveying my hearing experience is not easy and can be very subjective in my description and her interpretation. What to do? I general cave. Not sure if she is following the “scientific” script of the manufacturer or really trying to improve my hearing experience according to my “subjective” analysis. Hats off to your tenacity. 🥴
I have found that unless they wear hearing aids, they don't understand what you're trying to explain to them. I found one that wears just one hearing aid, and she was able to understand what I was trying to explain to her. But unfortunately, they only handle one make of hearing aids and Canadian VA would only pay for the very basic model which didn't help as much as needed, and she wasn't able to get rid of one annoying problem, I would be reading in the living room, and I could swear I would hear someone at the front door but when you looked no one was there. So I ended up going back to where I got my last pair but they guy I always sean had left and the original owner and her new associate just can't seem to get them right just close enough. They extended the trial period, but it ended up being a bit of a cover up so I would take the hearing aids. Well 2 more years and VA will get me a new pair and I guess I have to go to a big city to find someone whom actually cares to help and listen.
good information.... as usual John. I don't wear hearing aids myself but I was helping my 94 year old father get hearing aids. He struggled with them and never really worn them because of similar things you described. Which i couldn't understand at the time. What you described was exactly what and how he would react. You confirmed my suspicions that they set it to what "the book" tells them to do but not to what the customer is telling them. cheers
elderly men have a lot more problems adapting to hearing aids than women from what I was told by an audiologist. She said after about 80(yes a generalisation), mens brains have too much trouble getting used to the sound from hearing aids. So if you need them don't leave it to late.
Job #1 is to sell product and get to next patient. The way everything works.
Yeah but you're not going to get the next patient if the last one tells everybody of their experience.
I'm hearing Impaired as well, and I have had similar experiences. It was smart to try a different shop. Not all audiologist are made equal. The move to digital hearing aids has greatly complicated thing it seems. I wish I could find analog hearing aids, but you can't anymore. The only analog device right now is the Phonax Lyric (which is a subscription and implanted at the bottom of the ear cannal - these may be unaffordable or not work well for many people for various reasons). But yes, the office approach to tuning hearing aids is limited and flawed. The very concept that someone else is adjusting the nobs is kind of dumb - it's like having a blind folded driver and you sitting in the passanger seat directing them where to steer, speed up and slow down (and you have that one office visit to try and drive that obstacle course with some success). Software is such now that we the users should be doing much of the the adjustments ourselves. ...getting everything to the right balance point, takes time and multiple adjustments.
Hello! Please, what hearing aids you are currently using? I am moderate hearing lose like you, and I love music and natural sound. I understand speach in the majority of case. My problem are in high spectrum freqvency. Thank You!
Ich can relate to the problem. I have some expertise in audio and speakers. When I needed hearing aids, it was somehow not easy for the hearing aid acoustician to accept that I have more knowledge about the subject than he does. Ultimately, it's worth approaching the matter with a lot of patience. And also making it clear: I am the one who has to live with or wants the devices. And it's my preferences and my experience with acoustics.
Yes i agree with you. I still cant wear them. More for me now is i get pain from my ear.. i guess my ears are small or something. The new ones are much better than the first ones . I RECENTLY saw a bose one on Tv where you can regulate the sound yourself. I guess new tech. YES you are 100% correct the audiologist sometimes are smug and they dont listen that the settings are incorrect
I'm not currently requiring hear aids, but as a recently retired industrial carpenter/scaffolder in Alberta ( that means I worked in a lot of very noisy places) and having my hearing tested every year ( it's OHSA required in Alberta for my industry) for the last 10 yrs, it has been noted that I've hearing loss. Yep, like John, some of it is from not being as careful as I should at work, but some of it was from other activities as well. That said, I needed this post, I'm now more aware of what to expect when the time comes and what I should aim for as I too love to listen to as well as make music. Thanks John.
Thank you, your message could not have been more timely.
What brand and model of hearing aids do you wear. I'm considering getting a pair myself soon.
I just got my first set of hearing aids last spring, just after my 59th birthday. I'm 60 now, my doctor reminded me of that fact yesterday at my appointment. I was shocked and stunned. My hearing aids are really only useful at work or other situations where I need to understand conversation. Except, my wife and boss are so used to talking loudly to me, now they both hurt my ears. I have to use earphones to listen to my UA-cam channels that I subscribe to , especially the music videos. Music sounds truly awful through these things. Have you ever attempted to insert an earphone without removing the hearing aid? It hurts.