Why Do We Love The Shadow Hawk?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 бер 2024
- Today, we look at the Shadow Hawk in hope of figuring out why it's so darn lovable.
Check out CamoSpecs for great examples of paint schemes from all your favorite battletech units.
camospecs.com/
Thank you to Savage Coyote, Tsuge, and KierdaleModels for sharing their amazing work and helping to bring this video to life.
Shadow Hawk 1MF Record Sheet: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f0yhce...
References: 3025 TRO, 3039 TRO, 3050 TRO, Field Manual 3145, Project Phoenix TRO, Tukayyid 3rd Ed, Liberation of Terra Vol 2, First Succession War, Primitives TRO Vol 1. IlClan rec Guide 12.
Thank you to Dwane Loose, Anthony Scroggins, Matt Plog, Bishop Steiner, Flying Debris, Alan Blackwell, Chris Lowry, Dale Eadeh, Harri Kallio, Loston Wallace, and all the other BattleTech artists that have brought the IP to life through their amazing work.
BattleTech imagery and mech info remains the property of Topps.
Concept Art from Mechwarrior Online and game art from MW5 is owned by Piranha Games.
Imagery from HBS BattleTech
Some imagery/video from Pixabay
Background Music: Purchased rights to use from Fanatical
#BattleTech #Mechwarrior #CatalystGameLabs #lore - Ігри
Correction: The Shadow Hawk C has 13 Single Heat Sinks and 5 jump jets. My source was showing incorrect info.
If “ I can fix her” was a battlemech design.
Truth.
She can ruin my life
and my military career
Everybody wants to drive the Dougram, and god help them they'll make it work.
Heh.
Love it. Cheers friend!
I've found much success in 3025 games taking inferno srms and smoke lrms and treating the shadow hawk as a support mech instead of a brawler or calvary unit
I always refit it into an SRM boat with an additional small laser in the energy arm
I'm glad someone has had success with it.
Precision or AP ammo for the autocannon also works well
@@kalixascsi66 yes, but those aren't available in 3025. I do use those in the eras they're available though
@MilitaryStyx IMO, specialty autocannon ammo not being available in 3025 is a huge oversight and would do a lot to make some Succession Wars-era designs a lot more effective.
the problem with the shadow hawk is that it takes the setting in ernest- it's a design that makes sense in a world where mechs are rare, ancestral machines: it has enough mobility to get anywhere it needs to, the ac/5 is more than enough to deal with most non-mech vehicles and vtols and it's other weapons are good against infantry and light vehicles. it has so many heat sinks in order to prevent the pilot from damaging an irreplaceable piece of kit.
It's a medium tank. They make incredibly good sense IRL. They're ALWAYS useful as hell. But as soon as you put them into tabletop and video games dominated by heavy tanks... You get let down a bit.
Also depends a lot on time period.
All Lore, no Gore
Yeh, unfortunately, it also loses to lighter tanks.
The biggest problem is that the AC5 is incredibly inefficient as a weapon damage to weight under base rules. If you drop the AC5 to an AC2, (still a bad weapon but has a niche as as extreme range) and drop a heat sink then replace that weight with an extra lrm5 launcher and an extra medium laser it's still lightly armed at any range but not laughably so. You're also also upping your maximum damage at any given range and keeping your average the same. There's places where you're actually equally dangerous to other common 55 ton mechs of the period.
Close range damage goes up to 12 from 7ish long range goes up to 12 from 10, at weird ranges from 8-15 you need to manage heat a bit but not much. You're still ammo heavy but you might actually have the ability to at least burn through all your lrm ammo, are mobile enough that you can possibly get to do that.
You also aren't asking for a wasp to close with you because he's got equal guns in close.
Grayson Death Carlyle and Dechan Fraser were not harmed during the making of this motion picture.
Plot armor is powerful.
Nor Sandusky Sorrell. IYKYK. 😉
The over-the-shoulder bang bang.
A bark possibly worse than the bite.
Its the opposite of the Hunchback. Standard variant at least. Hunchie is mainly a east/ right sider, Shawk a west/ left sider
@@MechanicalFrog I had one that threw an LB10X back there. It was a surprise for those involved. Made a nice little city fighter in Citytech.
BOOM BOOM!! Cheers!
@MechanicalFrog this is why engineers designed the Hunchback. Big boom boom boom on the shoulder.
The best advantage of the base Intro Shadow Hawk is that you can spam fire without worry of overheating.
Helped me an ok amount of times in HBS BT
Youvalso dont have to worry about killing anything
It's also good at kicking things.
@@MKmaki6094 In HBS the AC-5 deals the equivalent of 9 Tabletop damage (And the 2 deals 5) Plus knockdown is focused on ballistic and missile hits with lasers not contributing and PPCs only contributing a little. So now the AC-5 is actually competitive with the Large laser, doing more damage, at longer range, for less heat. Before it was less damage, more range, less heat, not nearly enough to justify the extra 3 tons of weight. Something like 90% of the time a LL and 3 heatsinks is the better choice. Oh and pilot skills let you ignore the small minimum range penalty relatively early in HBS.
I have a soft spot for the Shadow Hawk 2H. A superbly versatile and capable in-universe design, let down by the mechanics of the tabletop game. A walking testament to the fact that one can be *too* much of a jack-of-all-trades.
I have a minor refit I love doing on any SHD-2H's; take out the jump jets and two heat sinks, then add in a second LRM-5, upgrade the SRM-2 to an SRM-4, and add a half-ton of armor. You get a decent ranged combatant and skirmisher, while also letting it fight a little better up close.
I really think the 2H should have had an AC/10.
@@MechanicalFrog that's why the 2Hb is so good.
Fang! Of! The! Sun! 😍
Horns of the Moon.
NOT EVEN JUSTICE, I WANT TRUTH
Great show, shame its not well known
I was going to make a Dougram reference!
No matter what anybody says about optimization, I will always be a dyed in the wool Gun Shoulder Club member.
I understand it has its serious shortfalls, but the Shadow Hawk will always have my heart from the time I managed to use that LRM system to blow off one of my dad's Hunchback's legs, then proceeded to jump and land on the poor thing as a mercy kill.
Never gets old.
I'm glad it has its fans.
I love the clanbuster variant, the SHD-2Ht. It always misses its lasers, but it hits well with its 5 SRM-2s. My play group calls it the “Terror of Tukayyid” lol.
I made one in MWO with 2 medium lasers and 4 SRM-4s. It's called the Splattowhawk, and it's fun.
It's a solid one.
5 Streak 2s were even more terrifying back when ONLY 2-tubes could load inferno, and you could have Streak-Inferno. (This is why all the elemental busters had Streak2s, they were meant to be loaded with Inferno before the rules change.) Allegedly, I wasn't playing back then.
That opening bit is awesome because it gives a bit of in universe information about the mech. They have some of the strongest grasping actuators in their weight class of medium mechs. Grabbing a structural steel beam and using it as a weapon is right in line with what they could do.
The Comstar variant that uses Medium laser and Streak 2s with a TC to kill Elementals was amazing. So effective the clanners thought every SH was that variant and avoided them.
Yeah that one was unfortunately cut from the video for time. It's solid.
The SHD is overall my favorite battlemech. Very well done.
I'm glad it has its fans! :D
@@MechanicalFrog if rauslehaug has taught me anything, there will always be hipsters :p
"If I missed your favorite, attribute it to deliberate malice..."
I'll do just that, but I won't blame you. My favorite remains the SDH-X2 LAM.
Mechs don't have to be good to be fun. ;)
Heh. Fair enough. :D
Me with every Shadowhawk, "Alright time to make you a close range brawler" It just screams I must punch something.
Agreed.
I've found the Shadow Hawk is treated very well by advancing technology, but that original 2H variant is garbo
looks great, though!
The 2H reminds me of the WW2 Sherman stories: Lights up every time! A guy in our group runs it by dropping all ammo after taking 10 dmg anywhere.
Agree. The 2H is WAY to allovertheplace. It is decrnt Lance role filler if someone lack a range bracker or need a PUNCHY mech that can hit above its weight class and can jump decently!
The Griffin in the base variant is not an all rounder. It is a medium weight long range fire support unit with LRM-10 and PPC
"The shadow hawk has never treated me very well."
Yes, well. The sky is blue and grass is generaly green. 😔
Well then. :P
A favorite late age refit of mine is used by a periphery mercenary force which relies on durable, low tech components to keep maintenance costs low. Its most advanced piece of equipment is a light fusion engine, a piece which is relatively low maintenance compared to XLs yet still offers an improvement over aging standard fusion engines. Its jump jets and excess heat sinks have been removed and its armor thickened, although it's still standard armor. The AC-5 has been replaced with an LBX-10, both of its missile launchers are removed for a single MML-5, and it's right arm carries two machine guns. It carries two tons of ammo each for the autocannon and missile launcher.
It's not especially impressive for the Era, but it's a dependable jack-of-all-trades that keeps the spirit of the original while fitting into the lore for the group that created it.
Pulling those two unneeded heat sinks and replacing the weight with a left arm medium laser and two more jump jets makes such a big improvement it's not even funny. It might even be worth it to pull the SRM 2 and ammo and put it all into armor.
This is my basic refit as well. Even with the drop in heat sinks and the extra laser it's rare to have any serious heat concerns.
The Shadowhawk is in competition with the Crusader for my most personal 3025 variants.
One variant I'll call the 'AB-1A', pulls out the Autocannon, SRM 2, and LRM 5. A PPC replaces the Autocannon, an SRM 4 replacing the SRM 2, a second medium Laser for the left arm, 2 more jump jets plus two extra tons of armor, for a total of 11.5 tons. This beast is a great sniper and brawler while improving the machine's maneuverability. I've taken down heavies with this variant. The 'AB-2B' is more of a support machine, replacing the LRM 5, SRM 2 and medium laser with a single right arm mounted Large Laser and 2 more jump Jets.
Finally the '2C' variant replaces the auto cannon with a large Laser, the SRM 2 with a second LRM 5, and added 2 more jump Jets, an extra ton of armor and 2 more heat sinks. It's a solid competitor to the Griffin trading some ammo and alpha strike capability for added short ranged firepower, heat dissipation and armor.
Thoughts?
By the way, I really like the MF variant.
I do something pretty similar for my custom 'hawk. AC -> PPC, srm2+lrm5 -> 2x srm4 + 1 ton ammo, +2 JJ, +1 ton armor on the legs and side torsos
The Shadow Hawk 2H is a mech that need to be customised in some way. Either by tweaking the loadout to fit the desired purpose better, or by using alternitive ammo for the missiles and AC.
I personally like to strip two heat sinks in favor of of two more jumpjets and another laser for the other arm. It's a very simple refit.
One of my personal favorites after using it in MWO. I can see why it’s so popular among fans.
I'm glad it has its fans.
le hawk de shadow, I've only used it a few times but I really dig the miniature, I even went and watched about 20 episodes of dougram so far
Great video as always. Thanks, MechFrog.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I started off into the Battletech Universe with the Gray Death Trilogy, so I was a Shadow Hawk fanboy. When I found it to be a bit lacking sometimes, I tried to develop my own upgrade and tried to pilot that when we started playing the Mechwarrior RPG back then. The SHD-2M (my first name starts with a M...) removed the AC/5 and invested the 9 tons into a Large Laser (LT), a Medium Laser (LA), 2 additional Jump Jets and 2 additional Heat Sinks. I never really got the chance to test it out because my groups protested against the use in Tabletop and my GM didn't let me start with or loot a Shadow Hawk to modify, sadly...
In the original game, it's primary advantage was armor and lack of any heat problems.
You know at first, I was surprised that you didn’t add a plasma rifle to your MF build but honestly I think the hag 20 fits really well
The 8L had me covered on the Plasma Rifle front.
SHD-2D is the "glorious last stand" mech. Extra SRM 2 on head and extra MLas make it into a Mifune-worthy FMJ. Knuckle up, indeed.
Playing BattleTech Extended rn. Gave Shadow Hawk the same loadout as Hunchback. I didn't expect that you can fit AC20 on 5/8 Succession era mech. Made the same loadout in Mech Factory and it actually fits.
The Shadowhawk 2k is literally "We have a Griffin at Home". It's a GRF-1N but worse. Though at least it doesn't concentrate both its weapons on the same side, and carries enough sinking capability to fire everything all the time.
My favorite Hawk is the SHD-2Ht. The design Comstar used on Tukayyid. 5/8/5 move, standard engine, same armour but 10 double heat sinks. A large laser in the left torso and a medium laser in each arm. 5 streak SRM2 in the right torso sharing 1 tonne of ammo protected by case. Unless several SRMs hit you are heat neutral but that's fine. Always shoot everything. If the SRMs miss no heat. If they hit it's 2 heat for 4 damage. I take that. Also, people always underestimate the Shadowhawk so you might catch them off guard.
I like using a Shadow Hawk, cause it looks so cute. But I'm still waiting for the moment, when it starts kicking ass as it does in the lore)
Yeah the descriptions in the fiction are always WAY cooler than on the tabletop.
I agree its too generalist. I see the Shawk as the glue in units with more specialized mechs. Again some SH variants do are specialist. Like the kuritan ppc one. But the lack of weapon hardpoint... OOF! Well, just have the peppsi or large laser ( ER preferrably ) and add more armor and punchy enhancements!
I actually like the standard Shadow Hawk, though I also like modding it slightly in MW5. As usual, I have my own variant.
The SHD-5S-ISM is a mixed tech variant that relies on Clan tech for weight and space savings. Retaining the 6/9/5 movement profile of the 5S, it uses a Clan XL engine, Clan endo steel, and Clan DHS, though one is dropped. It carries 12 tons of IS stealth armor, powered by an IS Guardian ECM. It retains the head mounted .5 ton cargo bay, but mounts a Clan Active Probe in the CT, a Plasma Rifle with 2 tons of ammo in the left torso, and a Medium Re-Engineered Laser in each arm. As this is a fanon design, it was built jointly by the Capellans and the Canopians.
Because the shoulder gun makes us mistake it for a Glitter Boy until we read its sheet.
One way to use the Shadow Hawk is for quick cash to use for something that has better options.
SATURDAY MECHFROG! LOVE IT!
Your videos are always waiting in the shadows to reveal themselves.
It would have been out yesterday but I caught a cold during the week and I lost a day.
Best thing in the time slot since Wile E. Coyote!
I fell in love with the Shadow Hawk after Mechwarrior. That's Mechwarrior 1, the original DOS game. It was a good medium that could take on the heavies with proper use of jump jets. Played right on the tabletop, it still is.
The first time i had any actual fun with a Shadowhawk, was in the 3050 TRO. That is a beast of a Shadowhawk! Of course, the XL engine made it fragile, but did what it was supposed to do, as a mech.
It really is the first time that the mech is consistently dangerous.
@@MechanicalFrog I'm currently running one in a Cavalry Level II that is pretty decent and simple.
Standard Engine.
5/8/5
Endo Steel
CASE
9.5 tons Ferro Fibrous Armor
UAC/10 w/ 3 tons ammo RT
MD X-Pulse Laser LA
10 Double Heat Sinks. It's a little over sinked, but that lets it upgrade to energy weapons if I decide to change it up ... Or I can jump and alpha without worrying about heat.
I would swap to an LB10X and another medium x pulse and small x pulse.
@@Kingofdragons117 for Classic Battletech, I agree. But this is for Alpha Strike, and Ultra Autocannons treat me better here lol.
I personally love it because i can see my big gun of choice doing its work.
For those tinkering on the SHD-6D and puzzled about how it doesn't _quite_ all fit: the cockpit mounts Improved One-Shot srm-2, which weighs one tonne less than a One Shot streak srm-2.
The Shadow Hawk I think fits the saying “looking good is what it’s all about, you just lie about the other stuff”. It’s an attractive mech, but I hate its guts (literally). The 2K would be the only one I’d reach for, and even then I’d rather run a Griffin 1N. For the 2K, I would keep the PPC, but I’d swap the LRM for a SRM-6, or drop the missile all together for a med laser in either arm. - Now, the 2HT made by the Blakists is personally my favorite load out wise. The SHD-5S is also a taker in my opinion, a true “Shadow” Hawk as you would. I’ll be here all day.
I'll take the 5S or another mech entirely.
It's the hero's mech (combat armor) in the Fang of the Sun Dougram anime.
It has the appeal of a movie star there.
Its Battletech stats often don't do it justice.
I feel like I love the idea of the Shadow Hawk far more than the actual mech.
We love the idea of the Shadow Hawk.
Even in Alpha Strike the "Weak" jump jets are a liability until you get into much later version in the timeline.
I always used the shadow hawk as a general supplement to other units. Add to the LRM volume. Fire support for the scout and mobile flanker for the brawlers
Best possible use for it.
I love the Shadow Hawk! I don’t care about any of its faults. It’s a fun design, and will always have a soft spot for me!
I'm glad it has its fans and that it does eventually get good as time passes.
Been a bit now, but I seem to recall in HBS Battletech, it was unexpectedly good at melee for some reason and filled a niche for vehicle stomping for me.
In regular AGoAC… not so special.
Then make it special! Its not the most fancy or specialised mech but its a solid, trustworthy role filler one! Its always there for you, backing you up in the shadows😶🌫️🥷😎
"Good for kicking stuff" oh heck yeah. I think we found the SH's true calling.
HBS Battletech was my first introduction into this franchise, Shadow Hawk is one of the two starting medium in the campaign. Back then I was new to the game , the Shawk alwayss the last mech standing and completing mission even with half of its torsor and one leg got blown off.
Now I mostly play with BTA3062 mod, I always try to turn the SHawk (if i ever get one) into a murder machine it deserves to be.
Yeah i always like the SHD, even if it kinda bad.
The Shadow Hawk can be useful in HBS BT since the autocannons are significantly better in the video game than on tabletop.
🎵Fearing that this could be the day
dreaming that this could be the day
to awake your heart and spread your wing
the day of setting out, Dougram 🎶
3050 Full Clan Tech Rebuild SHD-7A. 5/8/5, endo-steel, 9.5 tons of clanner fero-fiberous, XL+DHS, standard cockpit and gyro leaving 26.5 tons of pod space.
PRIME: twin U/AC-5's with a ton of ammo each (R/LT), twin LRM-10's with a ton of ammo each (R/LT), twin ERML's one in each arm, and emotional support ersl in the h, and an extra DHS.
AltConfig A: twin LPL (R/LT), twin MPL (R/LA), Twin Streak SRM-6 with a ton of ammo each (R/LT), two extra DHS, and the ever lovable ersl in the head
Interesting addition of the two LRM10s.
@@MechanicalFrogI was going to do an U/ac-10 LB-10x version, but I work 70+ hours a week and haven't gotten to it.
also a SERIOUS Lack of setting stuff on fire, so I doubt mini-frog would be all that interested
It's like any other 55 tonner, lots of potential. That weight class seems to be the sweet spot for any era as those mechs can be armed with anything.
The K is one of my favorites from 3025, just needs to keep the medium laser so you don't have to change the mini.
Lots of potential, at least we have the 5S.
I'm loving the mod for 3062. Ended up getting a shadow hawk right away. Right now it's set up with ENDO Ferris 1 er ppc. 1 lrm 20 and a mortar 2. I pit double heatsinks and a xl engine. It's great for mountains. Just pop up get line of sight do a alpha strike and jump away. Or just fire from cover. I'm loving the air burst and inferno round for the mortar. Though I'm sure at some point an angry Beat is going to show up and ask why I keep burning the forests down.
I see there wasn't a mention of the SHD-2Ht. I choose to believe you're saving it for an excellent "Why do we love the Clanbusters" video.
Looking forward to it mate.
It was originally going to be in the video but I had to cut it for time. I understand now that was a grave error.
@@MechanicalFrog Or was it the minute string pulling of a shadowy telecom company forcing us down a timeline where the above mentioned Clanbuster video can happen. Blakes blessing friend.
Probably that.
My first go in Battletech (mid 90s) was in a 3050 TRO Shadow Hawk! Thanks for the (5/8) walk down memory lane!
Glad you enjoyed it. I'm glad the SH has its fans.
One of the first things I did in HBS was yank the SRM2 and ammo for another ML and some armor. I kind of like the RAC version, I might just try it out. And the MF looks pretty solid, even though I'm not the biggest fan of Streak systems ( I like my specialist ammo too much on regular SRM's).
Thanks for this. Never considered The ShadowHawk before, but now I'm going to have to give it a try:)
I wish you luck. Maybe use the 5S.
We like the Shadow hawk for the same reasons we like the dragon. It's great as an initiative sink and damage soak.
Hahaha! Fair enough.
The Shadow Hawk: at least a hit to the right torso won't take out all its weapons.
Amazing as always! Your videos have made BattleTech much more accessible.
Glad to hear that! I want to make sure that they're entertaining for the old guard while still being accessible for new players/fans.
A littke Mech Frog & tben some Sven! Nice little double-header!
A good day. :D
The only thing I'd point out about the SHD-2D variant in way of an explanation for it's weakness is that it was mimicking an earlier Davion design, the SWD-2 Swordsman.
Compared to the earlier Swordsman, the Shadow Hawk-D is actually not a bad design, but that's comparing a 55 ton design from 2796 to a 40 ton design from 2463, so it's not really saying much.
Now, why the AFFS decided to revisit this design is debatable but the fact that the Swordsman is the inspiration for the Davion Shadow Hawk is pretty obvious.
14:45 Attribute not to malice that which can be adequately explained by froginess.
No regerts.
I feel the Shadow hawk, or at least the 2H, is the definition of just OK. It's toolbox set of weapons has enough pros to not be bad, but there's too many to be considered good. For me, I think the thing that holds the Shadow Hawk back is that it has one too many ammo types. If it had one less, I feel the risk would be more manageable. It's something that later variants gradually fix, and is sometimes as easy as removing one missile launcher to upgrade the other.
As I've mentioned before, the Shadow Hawk was a primary inspiration for my "pet project" mech, the Red Roc. So today I'm going to apply lessons learned from testing the Red Roc to fix and or upgrade the Shadow Hawk.
The first way I thought of improving the 2H without a higher tech level is to replace the AC5 with a Large Laser. The feed up tonnage would be used to upgrade the SRM 2 into a SRM 4, add two Jump Jets, and two more heat sinks. Oh, and move the SRM ammo to one of the side torsos. While it's going to run hot, I feel the mech would be improved while still feeling different from it's brothers. It also has a very logical path of upgrades. I also wanted to do something that kept the AC5, but I kept ending up making a weird wolverine.
It just has one too many weapon systems. Cut one, boost one of the others, and it'd be fine.
The nice thing about the Shadow Hawk is how many types of weapon it can fit, so mercenaries can bolt on whatever weapons we salvage to this bad boy and tool it for any roll.
Indirect fire with LRMS?
Laser sniper?
Autocannon brawler?
The Shadow Hawk does it ALL!
I did two 3025 refits when I played 30 years ago.
One was a straight swap of the AC/5 for a PPC and two extra heatsinks, which was straight tonnage and crit swap, for an easy field refit. The SRM-2 usually got either smoke or inferno loads.
The other was an odd-ball long range sniper/harasser with the SRM-2 removed, the AC/5 downgraded to an AC/2 and the right arm laser upgraded to a Large.
I still have a soft spot for it. My favorite variant is definitely the 8L. Guardian ECM, Beagle Active Probe, Medium VSP, Plasma Rifle, and an MML5 on a 5/8/7 makes it very versatile mech for a little over 1500BV
I think I'm good with the 5S or the 8L
I use the 5S heavily as a deep range harasser / raider and artillery spotter behind enemy lines. Using the .5 tons as a sleeper, like in a semi, for the pilot(s) who hot bunk allowing 24hr operation of the mech.
It is a great one.
I really don't even like Battletech that much. Your videos are just very soothing.
Heh. Thanks. Now imagine being in my history class back in the day...
5D go Brrrrrt....
I love the Shadow Hawk.
It is stronger in lore than on the table, but it can be fun on the table.
Also I'm old, I like a lot of these old designs.
As per usual your MF version seem fun, though I was expecting plasma and ATMs, the HAGs are great!
I LOVE the layout you're using now!
Thanks a lot!
The shadowhawk is the cool looking mech riddled with problems. Still my favorite medium mech to run and definitely needs to be retrofitted.
I once had a RAC-5 Shad fight 1v1 and then kill an Ebon Jag Prime, it did a genuinely incredible job and was easily the hero of the match. That EJ had one-shot my Commando in round one so it had some payback coming
Sorry but Ebon Jaguars cannot be killed.
Yeeeah! Best un-optimized medium for universal combat! One of the mech that i love for that its not about power, its about style
It's an absolutely beautiful design
Fair enough.
Ah, yes, good 'ol ShHawk. I've used it a few times in Alpha Strike, but it proved to be better at taking points and shielding other units than for anything else. A friend of mine had some interesting uses for the 2D of all things, but those tend to die quickly.
55 ton mechs with the armor of a Locust tend not to last long.
The 2H I like to call “Vanilla the Mech” not good not terrible just kinda there.
Fair.
The best showing of the 2H was probably in the original Mechwarrior game. The ability of the Shadow Hawk to overwhelm things with fast-loading weapons with no heat problems punched way above its usual performance.
Yeah the MW/MWO/HBS BT effect has a tendency to make these sort of mechs better.
@@MechanicalFrog I'm talking the original, DOS version. Putting a hired pilot in a Shadow Hawk let it go toe-to-toe with the Warhammer
"Designed by committee" - definitely has that vibe. Much more from the Bradley Fighting Vehicle / F-35 / Blackhawk Swiss Army Knife school than min/max A-10 unitasker.
It might not be ideal for anywhere but it can operate everywhere - an original G.I. compared specialists from the 80s G.I. Joe.
Coming from HBS Battletech and having listened to the Gray Death Trilogy, I remember when I saw Big Red's video on the mech and being surprised at him lambasting the design... and then I realized AC/2s and AC/5s got a much needed buff in the HBS game. It's honestly kinda sad. Good to see later eras give it some much needed upgrades, but still.
I admit, for something called the 'Shadow Hawk' it's surprising to me that it doesn't have more stealth variants. Think that'd help it feel a bit more distinct compared to its fellow 55 tonner brothers. Wolverine for brawling, Griffin for ranged support, Shadow Hawk for more sneaky tactics... ah well.
Good vid, think you did the mech well, whether it deserved it or not.
Yeah in HBS BT AND the MWO/MW5 games, autocannons are a whole different creature.
I do agree that the K-variant could trade two heat sinks for 2 medium lasers. Indeed, that is the mech of one of my pirate hunters, rebuilt from a 2-h and parts from a Warhammer.
Does it work for you?
Quite well, so long as I remember not to alpha, which for me is not a problem. Nice for taking out the lights or tanks that run in on me.
The Shadowhawk has always played way better for me than it should by looking at it on paper. I once killed a 3050 Victor with my character's 3025 stock Shadowhawk in a 1st edition Mechwarrior campaign in the fall of 1990. It won my respect and love going forward from that point. That was my first battle in one after that character lost his Thunderbolt.
I'm glad it works for someone out there. ;D
The Shadow Hawk has been good to me when I run it in Battletech Advanced or MW5. I know those aren't the best representations of it, it's not playing on a table... But it's always a mech that I never felt bad about using. Sure, it blows up a lot when something fights back, and I have the luxury of swapping the head SRM2 to another LRM5. You aren't wasting weight carrying umpteen bajillion SRMS you'll never fire, and you can long range harass 2 things at once while keeping the 'terrifying big gun' on a more appropriate target. She sweeps vehicles and contributes to mech fights. I don't feel bad about throwing one at the enemy, and I don't feel bad about selling them for an upgrade. It's a win-win for me, even if it's not the greatest mech of all time. Attrition-able asset.
TLDR: I like the walking AC5, it's alright.
My favorite Inner Sphere mech.
Personally I prefer the Post Clan invasion designs much more than the wolverine designs. The 8L brings fun toys to play. My preferred Shadow Hawk would probably be the 2Hb as it’s almost perfect if they would just drop a heat sink for the full 5/8/5 movement profile. Honorable mention to the 2Ht as well.
Yeah I was going to add the Tukayyid variant but the video was already getting a bit long for my taste so it got cut.
Your production is so good
Thank you.
I think the strongest 2 points in favor of the Original SHD-2H are it's a good trainer/tutorial mech to learn your basic level 1 rules and tech, it's got a little bit of everything. I understand that doesn't do much for it's performance, but as a tool it's useful to new players as it covers every base.
The second point (and much more subjective one), it's a 3025 mech, and has been there from the beginning, where mechs were these relics and new ones were exceedingly hard to produce and were generally just scrapped together heaps of whatever you could find. When you look at the original 3025 TRO there's only just over 50 mechs total, and 1 variant per listing. We're spoiled for choice now, and there's definitely more of a slant for more efficient builds, but it's a product of it's time. It's flawed, it's been all but replaced with better choices, but it has it's place in history and the spirit of early Battletech
Fair points.
The Shadow Hawk: The "I got a rock" of Succession Wars battlemechs. Thanks for the video.
It's sure a thing. Thanks for coming by!
My biggest grip on the shadowhawk is the auto cannon being on the left side. I cant hit crap with it there
I've always been a fan of the Shadow Hawk as it was the mechbthat survived most early battles in HBS. I often swapped the AC5 with an AC10.
It's an iconic mech and the shoulder AC is just too cool looking.
We love the shady bird because the rule of cool. We know it's got issues, we know it's not optimized, but we want it anyway.
I can respect this.
Nothing like some BattleTech to start the day off right!
The original 2H was lauded by it's fans as a "Jack-of-all-trades." But it's critics pointed out (quite rightly IMO) that it couldn't do any specific role well. The weaponry, while varied, did not pack much of a punch. The jump jets were insufficient to maneuver the mech very far. It did have good armor, but then so did most other medium mechs in that weight class. And ammo consumption was an issue in prolonged engagements. Now, once the "upgrade kits" (courtesy of the Helm Star League core) became available, then we started to see some impressive variants.
True that. It's definitely a mech that improves as you run down the timeline. Thank you so much for the support.
A late 80's variant from Mechforce UK kept the ML and 12 h/s and also came with a LL; LRM10; SRM4. For the 3025 era,this is a decent upgrade.
in just messing around with megamek, if upgrading the 2H I'd just knock the jump jets and SRM-2 out, and add a medium laser to the other arm and an extra LRM-5, it also gains 1/2 ton of armor, say its a command/light fire support mech.
command with a side of sniper, or just remove everything except the jump and the medium laser and add a AC10, and 2 tons of ammo, or just have 10 shots and 2 medium lasers.
Sounds like good fixes.
@@MechanicalFrogI also did an alt take on the MF variant, clan gauss rifle with 2 tons ammo, SRM4 with 1 ton, and 2 ER medium lasers(1 in each arm), and a ER small in the right arm to shoot birds, all ammo in the right torso protected by clan case II
Ok what I've done is some what silly. Swap the everything but the Medium laser for two LRM-10 packs and a ton of ammo each and two more Medium lasers. Now you have a 15 ton fatter Whitworth that's faster and has hands and a ton more armor. Still better then a Rifleman.
Now how I make my Shadow Hawk for like the FedCom Civil War, 3060+ish, PPC on the LT shoulder, LRM-10 for the 5 pack w/2 tons of ammo, upgrade the SRM-2 for a SSRM-4, the medium laser still there, 10 DSHS, 9 tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor & Endo Steel.
Hmm... Interesting direction to take it with the two LRM-10s.
I did kinda the same thing in HBS BT: 2 LRM 10's, only 2 ML, 3 tons of ammo. More survivability than the Trebuchet, and could stay in the fight longer with more ammo and better heat management.
My 1st Battletech tournament back in the '80s was won in a Shadow Hawk, everyone was in the 2025 55 tonners. Fun Times.
Awesome. Glad it performed at least once. :D
Ah. The hero mech from Dougram. The Fang of the Sun. Awesome little series. Includes the Thunderbolt, Wolverine & Griffin.
The Shadowhawk. If I couldn't get the Wolverine, I'd take this pick of the 55tonnors. Not as good for sure, but depending on the model, it's serviceable.
Fair enough. If we can't get our hands on anything better, we'll go with the SH. ;D
@@MechanicalFrog (shrug)
Maybe take the 5S.
In MW5 Mercs I found it kinda easy to make them into a monster on par with their 55ton brothers, and while experimenting, it's similar to the Assassin in a way, at least in Console MW mercs. Working with the weapon slots they give you can be a little ok, but its rough, and goofy for me at least.
In both cases just to explain, Asassin and, more importantly the Shadow Hawk: I adjust them in a way I prefer mostly with changing the Lrm to another srm, or another lrm with assassins.
However many tubes you wanna fit with weight cost in mind.
Cutting down the Ammo and sometimes the weight of the lrm/srm ammo.
And then the most important change in that game for altering the Shadow hawk like this: Medium or Heavy RIFLE, or light if you go all out on srm/lrm.
Medium rifle is the weight of an ac2 and does ac10 damage, and the heavy does ac20 but at range with velocity, and surprisingly ammo efficient in most cases.
Plus you typically get to max the armor all over aside from like, a few points on both legs and/or the Torso/Head/Arms/a shoulder
You can get it close to 400 armor overall and decent kit to use it's speed, weight, and already tanky nature in 5 to get in your face and missle spam after stripping armor with rifle fire. Or long range spam.