BATTLETECH: The Shadow Hawk
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2022
- The #Shadowhawk is one of the iconic designs of #BATTLETECH, and is one which is unforgettable. A common mech across the #InnerSphere, this #unseen #Battlemech is has been loved by fans the world over.
So let's talk about this veteran of the #StarLeague, the #SuccessionWars, and of course the #ClanInvasion, #Darkage, and #Ilcan eras.
I kept one of the bloopers at the end for you all.
One piece of art was used from Spooky777:
www.deviantart.com/spooky777
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Note: I am not associated with the Battletech / Mechwarrior IP, and create this under fair-use. Ownership of the Battletech IP resides with several companies at this time. I support all official releases.
#Battletech #Mechwarrior #HouseKurita #HouseDavion #HouseMarik #HouseSteiner #HouseLiao #Battlemech #SuccessionWars #Mechwarrior #Medium #MediumMechs #MediumBattlemechs #ShadowHawk #catalystgamelabs #StarLeague #SLDF #AFFS #FederatedSuns - Ігри
The Shadow Hawk was the first medium mech... and it shows. When they designed it they didn't know exactly what it needed to do, so they tried to make it do everything. The Davions looked at it and went "That could be fast enough to get close and brawl." and made the Wolverine, and Earthworks looked at it and went "That could fast enough to stay out of range of most bigger mechs." and made the Griffin, but the SHD itself never did poorly enough to get completely removed from service so it ended up backfilling units that weren't sure which of the above they were actually going to need.
In HBS Battletech I ended up using it as a SRM boat with JJs and M lasers. Thing ran fucking hot though, I had 2 rounds to alpha before needing to get in close and punch. Thankfully I found some arm mods fairly early which helped its melee damage. Still, it was basically a earlygame grasshopper
@@ironboy3245 : it's the only early mech that irreplaceable for me. Vindicator? Load up a griffin with similar load out, Griffin is faster and will do better job. Spider? Way undergunned and thinskinned, replace with Firestarter ASAP, or PhoenixHawk. Blackjack? Replace with Rifleman. But Shadowhawk? ... no other mech has such speed and innitiative necessary for melee and hit-an-run, while also having enough armor to stand up to heavier hitters. Attempts to replace Shadowhawk always result in a worse version of Shadowhawk, usually something with less initiative and speed. There's no substitute for Shadowhawk.
@@gendoruwo6322 eh, I disagree, I swapped it out for a wolverine fairly quick once I found one, the extra armor was too valuable
The Shadowhqwk; one of the mechs that makes the Dragon look good.
I love this mech, not as it is designed, but as a platform to build a better mech out of. If it's role is focused and the tonnage it has re-allocated to fill that purpose, this mech can do whatever you need it to do at the tonnage bracket and do it well.
Damn straight. For a short period of time in MW5, my whole lance was composed of Shadowhawk variants. And in Battletech, one of them is my SRMboat that I've carried to the late game
I agree, it's load out options make it an omnimech without being an omnimech. When I try to use all its hardpoints it's disappointing, but it can be configured to do whatever you want it to if focused.
It is the "Jack of all Trades Master of None" that can accomplish any mission but does nothing truly well. The Shadowhawk was a popular choice for planetary militias during the Star League era. Ammunition based weapons are more easily supported by backwater planets than lasers and PPCs that require a higher Tech base. After the teething issues with the armor was resolved the Shadowhawk proved itself a very rugged design. Its widespread use ensured its survival, although only two factories producing it survived the Succession Wars era, it remained ubiquitous throughout the Inner Sphere and periphery. A cache of salvaged parts found most anywhere will usually include some parts for a Shadowhawk.
I feel like it’s a great mech for filling in garrisons or militia units where your not facing anything better than some light mechs or tanks or some technicals. It can do whatever it might be called on well enough to be ok and can handle a lot of odd jobs with its hands and jump jets.
I love how it can fit into really making a living setting by having something to fill that role but not be top tier.
@@nibblitman exactly! Base Shadow Hawk would be perfect as a commander's mech for a mixed garrison.
Also the fact it's weapons are low-volume in terms of Ammo composition means it doesn't need resupply as often.
It's easy to think of battlemechs as just being an array of stats, but in-universe there's likely a lot more to what makes a battlemech effective than its loadout. Stuff like "how easy is it to control", "how much do I need to update the neurohelmet's software", etc. Crew comforts are a factor, along with stuff like Ammo expenditure.
Sure, the shadow hawk isn't great, but most militias don't really need great, they just need good enough. A Lance of blackjack and shadowhawks seems like a relatively inexpensive and pretty simple garrison force for a planet that's not really involved in heavy fighting. Mech-on-mech combat is common for the tabletop, but in-universe it may mostly be mechs vs vehicles or infantry, at least during the times the original version was designed in.
I have a soft spot for sub-optimal mechs.
Z
The shadow hawk always looked like what a battlebot should look like.
Don't care if it's bad, I love all the Dougram design Battlemechs. For what it's worth, the SHD does a magnificent job of taking the Dougram's design and translating it into BT game language.
It's a beautiful design. I genuinely love the 5M too.
"Not even Justice, i want to GET TRUTH!!"
@@Solon_The_Lich Can you see the truth?
The basic design of the Shadow Hawk is essentially an aesthetic replica of the Dougram but not really functioning as such. The Dougram would core out and one-shot what would be assault mechs in BattleTech with weapons that get translated as just a medium laser and an AC/5. Both of these weapons were seen in the anime one-shotting targets up to and including the Battlemaster. The improved later refits of the Shadow Hawk however bring it more in line with how BattleTech works making it more functional and less of an aesthetic replica.
that's just plot armor
The Shadow Hawk to me, would make a lot more sense as one of the upper echelons of civilian mechs.
It has great manipulators. Decent armor, mobility AND jumping. It's life-support suit is apparently one of the best on the market. It's cheaply & easily maintained. If a civilian design, it would suddenly be armed for freakin' space bear... And of course, it's such a handsome, eye-catching package.
What could have been, if the Star League hadn't fallen, huh?
"You bought this mech to fight giant space bears?"
"Yeah."
"Those don't exist."
"Well that's what they want you to think."
(Kodiak stumbles out of the brush)
"FIRE FIRE FIRE"
It could have been a starleague Era militia mech, its armament pretty much suggests that, strong enough to destroy light and improvised vehicles with ease but light enough that it is not an outright military threat. Majesty metals is one of the major producers of the design and their out in Canopus territory. It probably saw initial use as a periphery security mech as starleague after reunification was watchful over what the periphery could make and use including warships, dropships and mechs.
Perhsps a place for him in SWAT mech police groups, like the ones in Patlabor: Mobile Police anime.
so many mechs are specialized torwards single roles that I think players have a hard time embracing one that can do a bit of everything. The Shadow Hawk's true ally is time. The combination of decent movement, a vast combined range bracket, endless ammunition, and lack of heat concerns gives the Shadow Hawk the ability to play the long game. Avoid the enemies specialized range brackets and hit back with whatever is their opposite. Evade and outlast, and while your enemies are overheating and still trying to pin you down, you have spent the entire fight nonstop blasting and slowly wearing them down. depending on lance composition and battle scenario this may not be an effective tactic, but that applies to virtually every mech out there. In the Shadow Hawks case, it often has to rely on it's allies to provide the time it needs to prove its value as a consistent marathon runner. Its not going to provide a awe-inspiring moment of heroism, but it is going to show up, be the first to start shooting, and the last to stop.
Until it gets tagged by a single TAC from the archer sitting back and dies horribly. A better all rounder build would be to ditch the SRM and LRM for a single AC10 and maybe a few lasers
Truly the exemplar of the Jack of All Trades archetype. It can do a little bit of everything which makes it very versatile and fun if used right. Just never hand me any Davion variants.
My opinion of it is so low, due to the volume of my opponents that have used it over the years. I think I've knocked out more SHD's than any other medium, maybe only HBK's come close, but they typically do something before they go down in flames.
Though I would point out the earliest 2D versions were born more out of desperation than actual competent planning to stop the Kuritan invasion during the 1st Succession War.
Truth is the standard model has 9.5 ton of armor, Same as griffin and Wolverine. I believe the armor is more focused on the the legs to encourage melee kicking, which on a hit can easily cripple any light mech minus a fresh panther. The under armored version is just weird, instead of reconfigure the existing weapons they added more at the cost of survivability. It's a good thing their rugged and ubiquitous because it makes it much easier to put into a more sensible shape.
The problem with the "Jack of All Trades" arguement is it's also possible to be "Failure of Them All" where you can't perform any of the jobs you've attempted successfully.
@@magicianman534 100% x5
I swear, the RAC/5 might as well be the personal signature of Hanse Davion himself. All the best FedSuns 'mech variants slap the big spinny boi on there somewhere.
I'm still waiting for the game to catch up to the Legionnaire.
One of the only decent offerings of the Jihad Era...a one-trick pony that's VERY good at what it does.
I love a RAC/2 or a RAC/5.
@@digitalis2977 Legionnaire is in Technical Readout: 3075 and MegaMek. Or are you talking about some other game?
The RAC is the ultimate expression of the Davion addiction to shooty bang bang boom guns.
Now we need to see a RAC/10 and RAC/20.
@@mattikuokkanen I meant more actual mini production.
With most "classic" mech chassis, you can play any era you want because there's almost always a variant, so you can use your SW/CI minis for most anything, but Jihad and Dark Age are the "black sheep" Eras of Battletech History and there aren't many...if any...models of the iconic Mechs from those eras available (the only official Legionnaire model I know of isn't even for Battletech: it was produced for the WizKids Dark Age Clix game.)
There's a quick and easy way to make a stock 3025 Shad into a good mech; pick SRMs or LRMs and commit. Dropping the SRM ammo allows you to switch the SRM-2 to an LRM-5. Or you can switch the LRM-5 for an SRM-4 because they weigh the same. Either way, it also needs more than 1 medium laser.
I generally dropped both missile systems, upgraded the AC to an AC-10, and wedged in a second medium laser. thus giving me a fast and jumpy Centurion (without the LRMs)
In HBS, I take the SHD-2D and drop the LRM, medium lasers and heat sinks in favor of small lasers, an arm mod and extra armor. It makes up for the lacking firepower with melee potential and versatility.
It's a decent skirmisher, able to hold its own when creating opportunities or providing assistance for other mechs, with plenty of room for upgrades as a bonus.
@@user-pq4by2rq9yMakes the ac5 kinda useless though.
Also, you can rip out the AC/5 for an LL and suffer little to no consequences no matter what you use the saved weight for.
@@krullachief669or go the 2K path and get a Kuritan Griffin with LRMs and a PPC.
@SexyMonsterLover Nah, the AC5 just becomes the opener while they move towards the target, softening them up for the battlefist and small lasers. It's kinda like a discount hatchetman.
As you spoke about Shadow Hawk's weapons Bilbo's line from the movie "The Fellowship of The Ring" comes to mind..."Like too little butter spread over too much bread."
Playing a campaign in the 3040s, the Shadow Hawk is a weird kind of scary. The majority that you face are the stock 3025 variants, which are kind of a joke, so you just focus on them until they explode. But the refits... they HURT. And you might face the refits sometimes. So first you get this happy impulse when you see a Shadow Hawk and know you have a free kill, but then what if it's one of the variants that has real weapons instead of just the ammo for weapons?
My first encounter witth the shadowhawk is the Decision of thunder rift. Grasyon Death Carlyle stole one.
I have a Gray Death Hero variant in MWO and have a few of them in my garage.
A must have.
A beautiful appearance for an underperforming mech. At least in a lot of designs, there are some really solid ones like the 5M.
Personally hate how MWO/MW5 one looks. Creepy double thumbed claw hands, the head locked into the neck and the huge ugly block that the autocannon mounts into instead of being on a swing mount disgusts me.
I'll always love this one, no matter how unoptimized it may be.
Love what you love! I'm just a fat guy on the internet :)
Honestly, i was expecting you to lambast the mech. This was a pretty fair review of her.
As one of those Shadow Hawk fans, i find nothing to really gripe about. Excellent video.
As an aside, i played mine on the table top during the succession wars era. As soon as 3050 hit, it became a sexy dust collector on my shelf.
I don't try to just gank a mech in a video. But I do think the SHD is a lacking design, barring some very mean variants that come later.
Also first mech that adding and XL engine does not actually harm it and improves mech drastically. It was already likely to explode if its sides got hit anyway, might as well give it a better engine.
Exactly.
The two biggest gifts I would bring is double heatsinks, which is one of the first lostech to be recovered and can remove the 2 heat sinks you no longer need to other places, and the ultra ac 5 which would one up its long range game, or a ppc if I can only have one. Seriously pound for pound, double heatsinks transforms all but the lightest mechs.
@@eddapultstab2078 not sure about the double heatsink cause the mech runs cold most days anyway. Ultra ac5 is fine
@@Marveryn it adds flexibility, not to mention that 2 spare tons can make a big difference in a build. Even if you don't go the energy weapons route, that extra heat loss can mean a lot on a freak engine hit, Its not uncommon to get a center torso crit in a game.
Shadow hawk is also great for Hit and Run i gotta say, its a medium scout that can put up a mean fight if played right, thats what i like about it. Great video as always.
I see the Shadow Hawk as a great training mech, it has a bit of everything and will almost never overheat, but it's still underarmed. I'd fight in it if I had nothing better to choose, but I'd take almost any medium mech of its era over a Shadow Hawk.
Now that said, more advanced variants are a bit better. I, for one, am a fan of the SLDF Royal variant which turns it into a brawler.
I also used the Shadow Hawk for a training mech to give people a feel for all the different systems without killing each other to fast. In that regard, he is excelent.
The other way is to give it new players who are joining a group. They can start with staying at a distance and support more experianced players and get closer when they feel more comfortable.
In the original game I thought the best version of this mech was the Kurita variant which replaced the silly AC5 with a PPC.
I tinkered with it by removing all missile systems and ammo and increasing armour, heat sinks and adding another M-laser.
The 5K is better, definitely, but its just a slightly tweaked GRF.
@@BigRed40TECH Rather throw in a LL with 2 ML backing it up
@@brettwerdesheim9767 Mechforce UK created the 2N version at the end of the 80's. LL; LRM10; SRM4; ML,(Armour and JJ remain the same). BV: 1238 ( You could give it 2xLRM5's and a second ML if you wish). BV:1268
@@semperatis do save a ton if you do 2x lrm 5
@@brettwerdesheim9767 That is either GRF-1S or WVR-6M
It’s ironic that this Mech is the intro to the universe in the Colby’s Commandos short stories included in the box sets. From those, you’d definitely think the Shadow Hawk is a decent Mech. I guess Durant Carlyle was either that good or that lucky.
once you get that 55 ton bad-boy on the table its all over!
For the Shadowhawk XD
Is an advanced game rule that allows two shots per turn with normal autocannons. Using it risk a jam or an explosion (weapon damage only, not whole ammo bin). Shadow Hawks in the fiction may use the double fire rate and get lucky.
@@mattikuokkanen standard autocannons only get one shot per turn, and always have. Only the Ultra ACs can fire twice per turn, with the downside that they can jam for the rest of the game.
@@mackenheimer I see you haven't read all the rules yet. This in Tactical Operations page 100: "Rapid-Fire Mode: Any standard or light autocannon (not LB-X, Ultra or Rotary models) can be fired at double the standard rate as though it were an Ultra AC. This approach carries considerable risks."
As far as I understood the battle he outranged the locusts and melee'd and srm'd the dragons while being supported by lrm missile boats and others drawing fire. Sounds exactly like how a shadow hawk needs to fight :D
The ultimate training mech. Has an AC, an energy weapon and a missile system. Even has jump capability. The SHD-2H should be relegated to training facilities. The SHD-2K is a 3025 variant that is slightly better than other 3025 Shadowhawks. It drops all the weapon system to mount a LRM-5 and a PPC. Mocked as a Griffin pretender, it inexplicitly adds 5 more heat sinks to cover a non-existent heat problem. 17 total heat sinks. If the mech fires both weapons (10+2 heat) and jumps (3 heat), it only generates 15 heat. That extra 2 tons of HS could of been used better. At least add 2 more jump jets and keep one of the 2 heat sinks to bring the total to 16. Then it could potentially gain 1 heat per turn if it jumped and fired like a mad lad.
The Davion design is baffling to say the least. Calling it a suicide machine is being very kind. If Davion wasn't in love with autocannons maybe the engineers could of done something sensible with it instead of sacrificing the Shadow Hawk's only good feature.
If I was allowed to introduce a new variant for the 3025 setting, like usual I'd rip out the AC 5. The LRM-5 is an underperforming weapon as well. Rip it out and put in a PPC to cover for the long range firepower the other two weapons provided. Bulk the SRM-2 to an SRM-6. Add 2 jump jets to bring this mech to a full jump 5. Add 1 heat sinks to bring the total to 13. Lastly add 1 Medium laser. This brings the total weapons package to 1 PPC, 2 Medium Lasers and 1 SMR-6 with 1 ton of ammo, on a well armored 5/8/5 mech with 13 heat sinks. It has the same long range capability as the 2H (slightly better actually), and is much more deadly at close range. This hawk can run hot, but its got enough heat sinks that a smart pilot can easily manage it.
Heh, made my comment, scrolled down, saw this one. We seem to mostly agree on the Shadowhawk's best usage and how to fix its performance issues.
You forgot that heat generated from jumping is 1 per point, to a minimum of 3, it can jump up to 5 so it can use all its sinks. Still it may have 2 too many.
@@eddapultstab2078 Which Shadow Hawk are you talking about? The base model (2H) has 3 jump jets. So does the 2K that I talked about.
@@Chris_Sizemore wow, i had to look that up. I'm so used to mech designs with as much jump as walk speed. I suppose the 2k can put one sink into a laser or round out its jump game.
For an actual battle, I would commit on one or two weapon platforms!
I remember getting a Shadowhawk variant in MW5 and being pretty excited for my first 55 ton mech, then I realized that it only had a PPC and an LRM 5, and its available hardpoints meant that it couldn't mount anything better. Needless to say that thing got swapped out real quick. I felt a lot better once I got behind the controls of a Kintaro^^
the only shadowhawk that is truly worth it is the hero shadowhawk. My personal configuration is 4 medium lasers, 1 srm6, 1 lrm5 and a LBX sd autocanon, with double heat sinks and removing the jump jets to increase armor to max level and the shadow hawk truly becomes a beast. The regular variants of the shadowhawk suck because the mech has one of the lowest armor ratings of medium mechs if not the lowest of all medium mechs. Only the hero version can give you all the tonnage to focuse on armor and firepower.
This was my favorite mech back when I was a kid in the 80s.
Me too! A pity it's not a better platform.
When we played in the 80s, it just didn't seem much like a threat and other necks would draw more fire while my cousin's Shadow Hawk was largely ignored.
As much as I agree with everything you said about the Shadow Hawk's shortcomings, for whatever reason I have found the 'Mech to be the luckiest I have ever piloted. Every time I take this out of the bay, I come back limping, damaged, and virtually out of ammo...but I DO come back. On one occasion, the sum total of the armor points left on the 'Mech weighed in at less than a single ton (16 points) with most of the internal structure showing.
During our RPG set in the Battletech universe, the SH-D served as a solid platform for weapon testing. We tore ours apart many times, swapping new weapons in and out in a quest for the 'perfect' balance. In the end, the four of us would up with four of these in our heavy scout lance, each armed differently.
It's all good! Different experiences definitely happen for lots of folks, and sometimes people can just make a mech work for them, even if its objectively troubled. :)
What irritated me the most about the SHD is that in the original artwork from Dougram the laser on the arm looks so much more powerful than what you get in BattleTech.
I like both the original design and the great modern take by Shimmering Sword, the Project Phoenix one by Chris Lewis is good too, but for this machine, the MWO/MW5 is my favorite look.
The mech itself is great to play in MWO/MW5, AFTER it got some serious rework. Chassis has a lot of potential.
The 2H Shadowhawk is a mech that is well suited to being a trainer mech. Moderate speed, jets, a direct fire ballistic, a beam weapon, a direct fire missile system, an IDF missile system. I've found that at Succession War level tech, the best fix is to swap the AC5 to a PPC, and ripping out the existing missile systems for an SRM6. The freed tonnage used to max out its jump capacity, up armor the mech, and add a heat sink. Mind you, this also makes it very close in weapons profile to a Wolverine.
It's the classic Jack-of-all-trades that excels at none. It can always contribute something to any operation but lacks focus.
It can contribute a wonderful fireworks display. XD
As an old school Mechwarrior who learned to play with The Fox's Fangs (a company with TWO Shadow Hawks in 3025 config), been a Gray Death fanboy, and had one in the Command Lance for so long, it's always been a good Mech to me. The Shadow Hawk definitely isn't for the Heavy and Assault companies that crash into the enemy's line and go through the set defenses instead of around them. It works very nicely in companies that are made for mobile attack and defense. It's a good lance commander mech because it can shoot at various ranges, but doesn't get the commander tied up in firepower. It's a good Light Lance or Recon Lance mech that can stay with and support its fellow Light Mechs. There is a "sweet spot" where the AC 5, LRM 5, SRM 2, and medium laser all overlap, and in that range a full salvo can do some damage. And despite WIlliam H Keith's stirring prose, it's not a very hot mech, and has endurance to keep fighting well when other mech pilots are literally sweating their overload rolls. And if necessary, it can DFA its opponent. Plus the mech is easy to upgrade, and benefits greatly from it. That's why Shadow Hawks are still going strong, despite all the specialized Mediums being touted as the next best thing....until they're in a situation that doesn't let them be the best, while the Hawk is bouncing about and shooting.
Thank you! Finally someone is honest about how poorly armed the Shadow Hawk is. I've never understood why so many people love this mech.
I suspect it's because of the novels tbh.
@@BigRed40TECH at first I loved it because it looked cool. Now I love it because I am feircly anti-meta in every game I play and winning doesn't feel like winning if you don't also prove the enemy wrong about what they think is effective
@@3ightba113 And Hell, even if it doesn't work out, you at least get a wonderful fireworks display :)
I like it because I with little effort I can give it decent armor and the ability to jump like a bunny. I would agree you shouldn't drop a whole lance of them. It's a good skirmisher to soften up targets until the Enforcers close to range.
Yeah Red, I think there is a DEST heading your way. On other news, I think it's high time that Kurita reward the team that thought up the 2D design and actually got the Feddies to produce that travsity for its Mechwarriors.
The Draconis Combine's finest are coming for me? Huzzah! I always wanted to see incompetence made manifest ;)
I like that they put weapons to anger opponents at all ranges, but not enough to really fight.. making it the perfect distraction on which to assign the most unwanted pilots.
Mechwarrior 5 has a variant that let's you give it a big melee weapon. Shadow Hawk sprinting behind you with a mace the size of its arm can be pretty terrifying.
Well, yea. But that variant's PGI only. :)
The Shadow Hawk provides nothing that I need out of a medium mech and that's okay.
I have the all strategic acumen of a flaming brick.
First time i heard about the shadow hawk was when i bought the second book of the gray death trilogy. That was 21 years ago at the age of 14, today i own 5 shd mechs in various configurations.
Its not bad, its a fucking iconic design, and i love the "old" times, before the clans partycrashed the inner sphere. No mad cats, daishis or summoners, just good old shadow hawks, phoenix hawks and warhammers slugging it out.
Just stay away from the von luckners and schrecks, you will be fine.
Thank you for the upload, i love this series
Most of my experience with the SHD is in 3025 to be honest. :)
@@BigRed40TECH mine too. But i agree with you, its a great fireworks display when facing down opposition alone. First time i used it i got bitchslapped by an awesome with a broadside of ppc's.
Honestly, in my MW5 game, since I do love the Shadow Hawk, the first thing I did when I got a 2H was rip out its AC/5, make it a Burst-Fire AC/5, rip out the LRM-5 and its ammo, the SRM-2, to replace it with two SRM-4s with a ton of ammo feeding both systems.
Not shockingly, centralizing its role down to a close-range mech killer which can jump to rapidly re-orient to shoot a volley of 8 SRMs down the gullet of even a Heavy makes for a competent close-range brawler.
When the game was new, running 3025 mechs, we would often replace the AC5 with a Large Laser and heat sinks.
Shadow hawk falls into that it can do everything but nothing well type of zone that many military airforces trying to make multi role fighters and mechanized infantry and tank design committees like the famous Bradley fighting vehicle and the pentagon wars story, they fall into trying to make the tool do everything instead of making it do one thing really well. The shadow hawk falls into that type of scenario, on paper its some general on a design boards dream machine, but in practice it falls well short of what it needs to be.
Let's face it, the Bradley suffered major scope creep and bmp envy. The shadow hawk always gave me a trainer mech vibe, like it's real purpose is for pilots to practice a variety of weapon systems but was also drafted because it was robust enough to survive 4 succession wars and a clan invasion. The way the mechs lore is described, it's a first generation mech that wasn't the best at anything but outliving other, possibly worse or highly proprietary, designs for 500 years an in that it's great. It's like a Sherman tank, there are way stronger tanks in production but it still lead the way to victory.
@@eddapultstab2078 The BMP had the Scope Creep, the Bradley had BMP envy. I always joke that the "Design by committee " scene from Pentagon Wars shoulf have been in Russian.
LRMs for long range and indirect fire, AC for mid-range and anti-air Flak, SRMs for crit seeking and anti-infantry Infernos, and a ML to back it all up. Not a terrible design if unfocused, certainly useful for covering the weaknesses of other more focused designs by handling non-mech targets, but in a one-on-one engagement sorely lacking in raw firepower.
The Shadow Hawk works best as part of a Lance/Star, on its own it will get outmatched by every other Medium Mech.
Based on conventional mech design, you'd assume The Shadowhawk a long range firing support platform, till you look into its specs and see its actually armed light and built to be fast.
Nice touch with the blooper real. Another great video
That's a 3 minute blooper, its brutal. lol
@@BigRed40TECH to ere is human to blooper is divine
@@Arron-S There is a full blooper real for members btw. You should be able to see it under community.
@@BigRed40TECH seen it... Loved it
My first mech in the 80s playing tabletop
This is my favorite of the holy trinity and when properly kitted out is one of the finest medium cavalry mechs around
In the HBS game, the Shadow Hawk was the only 55 ton mech with a torso ballistic mount. In my attempt to create a 5/8/5 Hunchback, i ripped out everything I could, and shoved an AC/20 in there. Wasn’t always effective, but it was fun….
When I played mw5 I had gotten the Davion variant of the shadowhawk easy to say I have acquired a seething hatred of the shadowhawk
what i really love about those videos are the authentic tabletop expirience where you miss all the shots XD
*Shadow Hawk the most expensive firework a man can buy.*
When people talk about the draw backs of Jack of all Trades designs the Shadowhawk is what comes to mind. It can do everything a little bit but nothing particularely well, which leads to the sad situation where in pretty much any lance replacing the Shadow Hawk with a different medium mech would upgrade that lances capabilities.
Jack of all trades scales a lot better on heavier mechs like the Orion for instance.
@@BigRed40TECH exactly. Mediums need to specialize to some degree, they dont have the spare weight capacity for the full package
It's a good mech as a heavy scout and skirmisher or as a light mech hunter. It's not really suited as a front line mech. Post 3050 they usually have enough firepower and mobility to take on most threats and steer clear from those they can't beat. Sadly the 3025 version is often thrown into fights as your mainline mech.
Exactly
I like the epic Mech2 music in the background, it reminds me of 30 years ago when I heard it while reading Battletech. My favorite and first book was "Wolves on the Border". One of the characters was called Dechan Fraser and wielded the mech "Shadow Hawk".
Absolutely loved the shadow hawk in the top down pc game, but after playing a couple games with it irl, I am sorely disappointed. Having 4 opportunities to hit and with the sinks to always fire all 4 weapons with impunity is reliable on paper, but so far mine has proven anything but reliable.
Top down PC game massively buffs smaller ACs. The only reason thr Shadowhawk is good in that is because its AC5 is now an AC9. They also replaced the pilot skill roll damage threshold with the separate stability bar which makes autocannons, PPCs and missiles better than lasers
Missiles having independent hit rolls makes them stronger with better gunnery too. That goes double for called shots
This show pony took a loooong time to earn all the love it gets.
Back in the day I used to use the basic Shadow Hawk, and often walked an armorless but victorious mech off of the field...
The good old Shadow Hawk. First Mech I fell in Love with and often have in my Mechwarrior 5 Lance.
I only say: Descision at Thunder Rift, first Novel of the Grey Death Legion Trilogy. ;-) (Direct Translation of the German Title)
It's a very attractive mech. Always liked it look.
The hbs game made the mech a devastating melee fighter, I gutted so many light and medium mechs with it.
Got the starter box, thought man this mech is cool. Looked at the datasheet and thought nope it's shit. I played a clan invasion game with the 5M after learning of and researching the variants and damn my little man was a hero. Punching 30 damage holes in the clanners after running 8... I'm in love
The SHD 5M is legit one of my favourite Mediums in the game.
Shadow hawk designer: I'm a cowboy! Bang bang!
Not the best performer, but I always loved that design. Props to Kunio Okawara, the original designer of the unseen design’s origin, the Combat Armor Dougram. Also the first person to ever hold the title of Mechanical Designer. Many of the unseen mechs were originally designed by him, and Shoji Kawamori
Great video as always!!
A great Mech bio as usual. When can we expect a video on my personal favorite the Black Knight???
Probably August.
@@BigRed40TECH Sounds good brother 👍. Can't wait 😁. It's my go-to cockpit sniper mech.
Honestly, the best use i can think of for a SHD is as a Training mech. It's got just enough of each weapon system to get a pilot used to how it all works. Thaaaaaats about it.
It's a "paper mech" that can defeat any enemy...if it has 2 hours, unlimited kilometers to maneuver and is 1 on 1.
Dueling on the on the salt flats of a dead ocean world, I'd take it.
Attacking any enemy position, hell no! There might be an Urbanmech or two in there.
And that is the major flaw in the Shadowhawk.
Lack of stopping power at any range or the speed and maneuverability required to escape things that can just burn it down.
Can't outgun, what they can't outrun. lol
i think the cold running of the shadow hack work best in game like HBS cause unlike some of the medium designs it often running cold through the entire game so you get a constant barrage once you reach long range for its short range weapons. with the right pilots it can be an early workhorse for a lance till you get your heavy. The main drawback as you explain is that it depend heavily on ammo weapons. You crit one side torso and the mech is in danger of dropping, but like you i would had to drop either the SRM or the LRM completely in favor of either an upgraded version of the later.
Seems like it needs refits to specialize in either long or short range. Versatility just isn't in the cards for this mech,so I have to give the FWL some credit with how they managed to shove a LRM 20 in that thing.
The SH is a great mech with a terrible load out. In mechwarrior 5 I stripped away the JJ, the LRM. Then I loaded up an srm 2 and srm 4. Replaced the ac 5 with an ac10 burstfire and I upped the armor to max so it had something crazy like 10-11 tons of it. The a laughed my ass off as ran up to mechs and shotgunned everything to death soloing missions without any lancemates to help me. It got me though mechwarrior 5 early game with ease and was so much fun. I love the mech.
I'm not a huge fan of this mech, but I bet they make great NPC mechs for campaigns.
They can offer a little bit of support at each range bracket without doing enough damage to overshadow the player(s).
Great for militias and other backline support, these are the mechs that hold off a light attack until the real fighters arrive.
They are basically an AC5 platform with enough other weapons to make an undiscliplined pirate outfit *feel* like they are getting hit.
They aren't really designed to face off against other mechs one v one or lance to lance but having a company of these lets them pool their weapon fire at any range.
...and at least they can get to the fight.
A stock shadow hawk in a big battle is actually amazing.
It is not dangerous enough to destroy and it will always be able to shoot shoot and shoot.
Staring the books with thunder rift, for me this was my first hero mech. I remember playing Mechwarrior II taking a Blackhawk, changing the loadout and asking myself what to do with the twenty tons left...
Once you get the giggles it’s all over from there. Some where down the road a stream and video blooper compilation may be needed😁
I delete the video recording itself shortly after finishing the final video, sadly.
I've always and still do like the Shadow Hawk. The only thing that bothered me about it was how the auto cannon sits in it's rest position. It always made me think about it snagging on low hanging stuff. I also had a 12 inch plastic model of it.
I like to use it as a Sniper, Anti-Air, or Fire-Support platform. The standard AC/5 can use alternate munitions to help with this. The 3 jump-jets aren't enough to gain any movement bonuses on the tabletop, but they're enough to move quickly to higher ground or other better positions to function as I explained above. The medium laser and SRM-2 aren't all that threatening up close, but if you can get to point-blank range it becomes a fair brawler; especially if you're using quirks and bring its Battle Fists into play.
i always think that the shadowhawk looks like a thin hunchback would look like i mean without the big cannon
I love this mech. Friends never understand, when I love my speed and firepower in one decent package.
I just don't agree that it has the latter of those things. lol
The hero shadowhawk in mw5 is probably my favorite mech... iconic design, firepower, mobility, it's got it all.
The Shadow Hawk, in later eras, really benefits from ripping out the AC/5 and replacing it with a light PPC and double heat sinks. I have a modest upgrade of my own that I need to properly test (shame that I can never get any locals to play tabletop, Warhammer 40K's dominating the local wargaming scene here) that runs two light PPCs in place of the AC/5, replaces the SRM2 with another medium laser, and replaces the LRM5 with an MML5 and a tone each of LRM and SRM ammo for it. 11 double heat sinks keep her running cold, CASE in the right torso helps mitigate the ammo explosion issues, and there's still enough mass left over for a targeting computer and an extra half ton of armor.
Still a mess of a multirole machine by the time light PPCs are available, but it's an upgrade package that adds some more bite to the Shadow Hawk on the cheap; I think buying one configured like this would coat 13-15% more than buying an SHD-2H off the production line. You probably could do worse for 3072-era tech when all the upgrade parts become relatively common.
I've loved the Dougram's design for as ling as I can remember way before Battletech was even a thought in my mind. I was both perplexed and happy to see it in a game all about mech combat when I first got into it this year.
Though I was pretty let down at how underwhelming and functionally confused it was. Might've been the problem of heavily translating design elements from the original Dougram designs without much thought to its practicality.
Alas, despite its flaws it's among my favorite Mech designs for tying itself to my already established love of the Mecha genre
It's a beautiful mech, visually. lol
@@BigRed40TECH that I can't deny
this guy ended me with 1 punch in BattleTech's TUTORIAL mission, it just walked up and punched my head off XD
I absolutely adore this mech, right after the Battlemaster. It just looks so cool, and in the Mechwarrior games I adore seeing that massive autocannon right next to my cockpit. And in the HBS Battletech game, its an amazing mech you can build lots of things with. SRM boat? Sure. Big cannon? Sure. Punchbot? Sure. It's fast, making it pretty dodgy and it can field a bunch of jumpjets, making it quite mobile.
I just love the thing.
It's none of those things in the actual tabletop though, lol
I always enjoy running the 2k in MWO or MW5, always call it the mistress because i keep coming back to it. 3 med lasers, 3 srm4, endo, ferro and double heat sinks and all the jump jets.
The Shadowhawk is under-gunned, and under armored in some of the alternate configurations. But it looks fantastic.
Probably worth dropping the LRMs entirely, and getting another ML and armor.
So aesthetically pleasing, it makes the lost palatable.
"I feel every time the Shadowhawk pilot ejects, or screams over the coms when he's being consumed by the ammunition explosion, you know? It's just such a shame to see something so beautiful die. But the explosion, it almost washes my tears away. So fantastic, so voluminous. It makes it go from a tragedy, to a bitter-sweet metaphor for life, as the burning wreckage collapses to the ground, and the embers slowly fade away from within, the last dying light, of what once had been." - Local Commander, talking of the loss of their 9th Shadow-Hawk.
Shadow Hawk in the Grey Death Legion benefits from plot armor and convenience
Yea, the novels don't necessarily reflect the game XD
I'm sure that SHD pilots appreciate your empathy towards their rides at the end of your video.
I was dying trying to record that. lol
Thank you Ryosuke Takahashi and Fang of the Sun Tiger Dougram, which also gave us the Battlemaster/Soltic HT-128 Bigfoot.
My SHD-2H has never once been killed and his assists are many. The best way to use the Shad is to park him on a hill with some cover and GO "neenerneener" at your opponent to draw them to you all the while whirling down their armor just so the Battlemaster can come around the hill and blast any scrap heap dumb enough to charge an AC/5 at max range back to the stone age.
That's a very impressive outing. It's definitely not the normal experience that I've observed, but I am happy for your success with them. :)
@@BigRed40TECH yeah its stange how good the Shad is for me a lot better than the Wolverine. My Wolverine ALWAYS dies with really doing anything either from his gyro getting shot out or an Insta Coreing from a 12 on a through armor crit on my center torso.
The only man who ever made a stock ShadowHawk work was William H. Keith, Jr. Change my mind.
The Shadow Hawk is a mech that at base is... Subpar.
Subpar in table top, subpar in sim/game.
With better tech it starts to shine in both TT/Sim, as shown with the 2d2, 5m, 5d and more.
It favors TT over sim/game, as all of them tend to offer much better performance per cost as stock.
I remember this mech fondly from the original MW pc game. As a cheese mech of course. 😂 It had the longest ranged weapon in the game, and was fast enough to duck in and out of range of heavies while plinking away at their armour. I took down many a rifleman, warhammer, and marauder with them. Even some battlemasters.
You are correct the 2H is so general purpose it is almost anemic.
What do you mean almost? XD
@@BigRed40TECH well, it can shoot back just with nothing big 🙂. Its all pop guns.
@@BigRed40TECH just added it up, if you are at say range 7, hit with all weapons and all missiles hit, you can do a max 19... Even if you get lucky and hit with everything you still cannot force a PSR.
A way to help fix the issues with the is to move all of the ammo to the CT, and LT and pad the LT with the moved jump jet, and heatsinks, to further prevent a crit from popping the ammo too early.
My preferred loadout is 2 MP an MML 5 and a plasma rifle with no jump jets for more armor and tonnage and double heatsinks
So here's what you do. Get your self a D type, throw away the AC5 and LRMs, max out on SRM6s, max out on armor, enjoy.
I don't know about tabletop, but in "BattleTech" and MW5, this is my favorite way to maximize the efficiency of the Shadow Hawk. Just turn it into a Quickdraw. In the BattleTech game it can be kind of OP to just keep on stacking evasion points with jumps every turn, (maps/positioning/heatsinking allowing) then derping enemies to death with missile strikes. A well armored SRM18 platform that is very hard to hit is pretty fun while the ammo lasts.
I like the SHD-2K. It's like a griffin that runs cool.
I feel like this maybe overlooks the fact that while the Shadowhawk’s spread of weapons across different ranges makes it insufficient against enemy mechs, it would make it very effective against weaker non mech vehicles, it can threaten armored formations at any range significantly enough to provide serious suppression, deploy it alongside other Mechs that are specialized in going toe to toe with enemy Mechs and have the shadowhawk mop up enemy armor so that they can stay focused on their task of handling the Mechs.
I was forced to use this thing for a while, I was badly in need of a medium mech. To make it useful I took out the srm. Replaced the lrms with 2 lrm 5s and the ac 5 was now an ac2. It was sniper support and survived far better in deployments.
The original (post-recall) models sounds like it was perfectly adequate while you had the logistics network and force projection power of the SLDF. Where a group of them working with other tonnages and roles of supporting mechs wouldn't have put them into situations where these flaws would become apparent. But once you go to the smaller scale skirmish style of conflict of the game's setting it falls behind other designs.
I strip of the missiles go max JJ and Armor. This is video game. Where I've never lost a shadowhawk. Also add a few melee toys and rip arms off almost anything
As a gundam fan, this mech looks like a Leo with a shoulder canon.
This one is only good for one job - Ablative mobile armor for Griffins and Centurions/Steiner Variant
In MW5, I slapped a LRM 10 in the chest and swapped the SRM for a LRM 5, turning it into a long range support mech. I also removed the jumpjets, because eh. It's a blast, though it definitely has issues if anything gets close because that single medium laser isn't enough to ward off anything
In MW5 I discovers how much I actually like its basic configuration with few upgrades. My favourite IS medium, at least for the era, without doubts.
I'm a fan on the younger end of the spectrum and was surprised to find out the Shadowhawk wasn't a mech designed for a videogame. Think about it for a minute - it has every kind of equipment you'd want to test out on one platform, has no heat issues, and it can be retrofitted to fill almost any role in the mechlab. It's an ideal starter mech. See what you like, lean more towards that direction. If you find you like that direction even more commit to it by getting a different mech that is better designed specifically for that role. It'll never be great at anything but you can make it good enough at most playstyles to figure out what you like and dislike with relatively minor retrofits without committing to an entirely new mech.
Modifying mechs isn't normal in the tabletop game.