(Pt 3) Honda Dealer Made it WORSE!? "Needs New ENGINE?!" (Accord VCM MISFIRE)
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- So what's the BEST solution to "fix" the EVIL Honda VCM Cylinder Deactivation System on this Accord V6?? DISABLE THE STUPID VCM!!
There are several methods to "trick" the ECM into not engaging the "ECO MODE Cylinder Deactivation", involving manipulating the Coolant Temperature Sensor.
After doing some research, this looks like the best option:
www.svcmcontro...
The S-VCM is not just a resistor, but a "smart" controller that is much SAFER to use, since it shuts off if the engine heats up past 225F. Otherwise under normal conditions, the REPORTED temperature is fixed at 165F, which disables the VCM!
Let's install the S-VCM controller and take the Accord V6 for a test drive.
Turns out this is the PERFECT SOLUTION!
Even the Cooling Fans work as they should, so real engine temp never exceeds 205F.
Minimal expense, easy installation, and VERY HAPPY CUSTOMER :)
TOPDON Phoenix Plus 2:
www.amazon.com...
Enjoy!
Ivan
I don't care if I'm first or last. It's Sunday morning, I just sat down with my first cup of coffee and PHAD is on. ;) Soon as the sun starts to creep up, I am off to the river. This is a good Sunday morning.
Same here!
Dude, yes. I feel you. I’m sitting in the sun espresso in hand watching this. Good to hear someone’s having a brilliant day dear sir
Did you thank God for making the miracle of your life possible?
You bring up a valid point there about parts from the scrapyard potentially outperforming new, genuine parts. Once a car is no longer in production, the manufacturer cares less about the quality of the parts. I have even seen that Rover was selling aftermarket parts themselves as OEM (shortly before they went bankrupt).
However, as long as a car is in production, you can be very sure that a new, OEM part is good since they can't afford to have broken parts on new vehicles (there are so many parts on a car that every car would require rework)
If you plan to keep a vehicle it makes sense to secure good parts from your nearest scrap yard while you can. The worse case scenrio is that the car gets written off, then thats not a problem, sell the used spares on ebay and recoup your costs.
The problem is that every single manufacturer of every single thing has moved their manufacturing base to Communist China. Now think about this: How can you possibly expect to get something made by a person where ambition is frowned upon, and there is no incentive to do better? When I was young I fixed the bicycles for all the neighborhood kids. When I was older, and first married, way back in the 70's I bought 2 bicycles made in China from Walmart for my kids. My son's bike fell over and the crank sprocket bent. I looked at that sprocket and said to myself " Damn, I have NEVER seen a bent sprocket on an american made bicycle. This is very important: In designing ANYTHING, good engineering dictates that form follows function. What you get from China may look good, but it is usually made of crap material. Fast forward to today: All the good American Manufacturers of the past have been driven out of business through greed. Once the first MFGR moved production to China, it started a cascade where they all did. Now you cannot depend on anything you buy to last or even work at all. I am now 78, and if someone told me 50 years ago that we would have refrigerators that only last 5 years I would have laughed at them.
@@AllanT-nu4rwI own 2 Ford F150's. A 1994 six cylinder 2wd 5 speed. It runs perfect. I also own a 2004 5.4 liter automatic. It also runs perfect, but the amount of work I have done on the 2004, compared to the 1994 is very significant. I even had to replace the drivers seat on the 2004. The 1994 is still perfect. The US auto industry has committed suicide with their so called "features" like auto start/stop, backup cameras, lane diversion, park assist etc etc etc.
Years ago I went through 2 rebuilt alternators. I finally got an OEM from the 'yard' and I never had a bit of trouble.
Incredible that somebody has designed such trickery box!
Cool strategy.
Honda has a way of making these things work, though. GM couldn't do it. My first Accord was a CVCC, the idea was nothing new.... but Honda made it rock reliable! Miss that Hatchback.... it was incredibly practical and pushed 51mpg freeway cruising with NO catalytic converter. Smog shops HATED that car!! 😄
We're going to see many more devices like that because the government is mandating various driving monitors for their own devious teasons
I remember gm did something like this.. a 4/6/8
Wow, that was very informative, Ivan! I really liked how you considered the fan issue and tracked it down to prove it was safe. The real kicker was your final report from the customer saying that the fuel economy improved!!!
Fantastic, they need to make bypass boxes like that for every vehicle that has those stupid cylinder shut off systems. Unfortunately they don't all work the same and finding a safe way to disable some might be more challenging if not altogether impossible.
That guy at Honda that got laughed at for wanting a correlation code on the temp sensors is probably getting a raise.
This Honda video series is the feather-in-your-cap! You are the best at diagnosing solutions to the problems you encounter …
You should have a TV show!
TV shows are all about promoting false reality. Scripted, and wouldn’t care about showing you details. Just hype.
I remember when Ivan was working on a P.T Cruiser with a PCM problem, instead of replacing the expensive unit Ivan installed a Bosch relay and solved the problem >> we need more Ivan's in the Trade that think out of the box .
This is perfect work around to disable the VCM operation Ivan!
Great video, the most interesting part was finding out that one ECT was dedicated to cylinder deactivation, thinking that Honda new about having to disable that system ahead of time.
That was genius. I love little black boxes like that. That might be one of the neatest and simplest solutions I have seen in a while. It just worked. Very cool, Ivan. Good job finding that!
Great job Ivan, I was thinking about a work around fix for the cooling fans which involved a temp sensor and relays and a controller but Honda shazzamed it by using two sensors. Kudo's to Honda. You keep honing your skills , I enjoy watching your detective type inquiry to find the issues at hand and how to deal with them. Amazing
Ivan, your the car guru. I owned two honda vans a 2006 which I still have and a 2008 which I sold. I put a resister in series with the vcm temp sensor on both vans. There are two temp sensors. The only thing that happens is that the temp guage is a little lower. The fans still kick in to cool the engine. The vcm will kick in if you live in a hot area like I do. Summer temps get above 100 at times. Other than that the single resister, for me has been working for more than 10 years. I understand in your case study you don't want it to come on at all. Keep schooling us. I refer you and big Eric O to many of my car nut friends.
Your cat .... at the beginning of the video paused turned towards the camera and said "meow folks" and then walked away.
was it his black and white cat or a trespasser
@@jackiemay9471 that was "contractor kitty"... Hired help since our house cat is spoiled and lazy 😆
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics nothing worse than a lazy pussy cat
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics LOL
Cat makes guest appearance
.... did you see it? :)
That's amazing, and for about $100 you can safely disable that design abomination! If I ever have a customer who has a car with that system on it I will recommend they install that device regardless of what their complaint originally. Great diag and repair. Thank you very much.
That's a sweet work around!! If you think about the fan during hot weather most people will have the A/C on so the fans will be on low or high speed continuously. Honda has built in redundancy for the coolant temperature. Thanks Ivan! Great diagnosis and repair!
I think Mr.O from SMA has a similar video with a Honda Pilot where the pintle from an aftermarket brand wasn't closing correctly and he called it the "Cheap Chianessium" part.
SMA an PHAD always claiming Hondas dont break down. Thats not the case here is it?
@@elcomandante9299 Well Honda and Toyota are better than most but they managed to put my two kids through college on my long career. 😊
@@elcomandante9299If you change the timing belt at the specified mileage and don't get Terry Fluckwitt to repair it if you don't, they don't... ... ...
@@PaulMappud That a-hole, Terry, sure gets around
True
In the Superduty forums I participate in, I've been saying for some time now to get some used parts from salvage rather than the aftermarket parts. My career was in automotive engineering as the head of vehicle testing, and my company supplied OE assembly line, OE over-the-counter (not the same), and aftermarket industry parts to most major auto manufacturers. The auto parts stores and customer desires have driven the cost of aftermarket rebuilding and production so low it's difficult to make that impossible to produce parts with OE quality. Not that aftermarket ever did.
Significant to me is that in the final part of the video, the customer wrote back that his mileage improved, which is exactly what the cylinder cut-out is supposed to do. Without it, mileage and, therefore, emissions improved. Mind-boggling.
The tuxedo cat prowling in the background keeping the rodents away !
I have the svcm on my '24 honda for the last 2k miles and it works like a champ. I can remove it if I take the car to the dealer so my warranty stays intact. Also have idlestopper installed to partially disable the idle stop BS. Thanks for steadying up the camera shake, I couldn't watch part 2 due to headache .
Congrats on finding a practical solution to a difficult situation. No wonder he drove hours to find your shop. Can't beat a story with a happy ending and leave the viewers with a feeling of confidence in human ingenuity. Onwards and upwards from here.
Valve lash is critical and was set wrong, spool valve was not completely changed or diagnosed. That dealership owes him $$$ big time!
you'd have to sue them to get them to pay. good luck.
Me too w/coffee, Sunday Morning, TY PHAD!!! Luv the think outside the box case studies!! You've made me a better Technician! Come visit the Cabot Trail and gondola skiing!! ..only 1200 mi. away!!
My brother has the 04 Accord V6, 6speed manual with navi Coupe. No VCM yet. That V6 engine is wonderful! I told him to take very good care of it, he'll never get a car like that again. (Bought it new) It has been an absolute BEAST!!! 👍
The two engine temp sensors discovery brought back memories of my 88 Chevy that had them. One for the instrument temp gage and another one for the ECM. A previous shop had blacked out half the digital temp gage display to "fix" the apparent hot reading but all it really needed was a new gage sensor. Fixed it myself in about 10 minutes once the real cause was diagnosed.
You truly are a master Ivan, I'm learning stuff all the time watching your vids. I wish I had just some of your knowledge of how present day cars work.....All my experience is on the older stuff (pre computer) but I still try to learn by watching you.
I find It just is amazing that you take your car into the dealer (because they are the "best") and you can't even get a simple valve adjustment done correctly.
Fantastic ending, Ivan! That little trick box is very clever and gets rid of the inbuilt "eco-craze"! And the fans run on a different temp sensor, preventing overheating or fan hunting. I guess Honda VCM owners should watch this video and take advantage of this clever gadget. Even fuel consumption improved! Not bad for an engine that the dealer wanted to discard 🙂
Great call on installing the SVCM, I grab them in bulk in Toronto 🇨🇦 absolutely horrible technology and I disable it every time I get the chance. And yes the fan is controlled by a second coolant temp sensor, I wondered the same thing at first.
VCM Disabler very smart! Similar gadget disables auto stop/start. These two components are a huge win-win!!!
S-VCM is the best. I had it on my Odyssey without issues for years until I sold the van. VCM does not do much at all anyway as I did not notice any reduced fuel economy after disabling it.
S vcm controller is the same brand device I use on cars, I’ve installed dozens of them with no issues, in fact the engines stop consuming excessive oil after I put an s vcm controller on, which is usually the goal and primary reason for me to install these.
Great case study and outcome for the customer. It’s sad to see what other shops and dealerships are doing to customers. I guess that’s your win and keeps the UA-cam channel going.
Always amazing Ivan, and with coffee this Sunday morning, great show!
Incredible series 1, 2, 3. Fixed. You deliver RESULTS....People want RESULTS. Unfortunately, all the failure based crims get paid money, but they fail to deliver Results. This is the problem faced by the consumer. You are the Master! Great Video.
Ivan, Very Impressive.With 47 years of Honda's under my belt. I would of jumped the Gun a bit and went ahead and redid the top end clearances. I like the bypass? How did you find it? I love details. You are absolutely the Best and I only hope to meet you some day. Peace my Friend.
Great detective work Ivan. Getting a problem(s) life cycle and tying it to current issues is key.... Now for the political rant. The problems created, like this with cylinder deactivation, have a far worse environmental and financial impact than an engine without it. To be sure systems like this help car companies meet CAFE standards but they increase engine failure, repair, maintenance requirements, and initial purchase costs who pays the price? The consumer does as does the environment with additional manufacturing of initial and replacement parts. The real world fuel economy difference is not noticeable in the vehicles I have had experience with, however the shortened oil change intervals to keep these systems from breaking are very noticeable.
I would put vcm delete installed sticker on top of air cleaner box for future mechanics to see..what's been done to it...
I dont know how it is in usa.
But where i live it wont pass emissions if they know the engine has been tamperd with and is not stock. So sticker=fail.
It could void a new car warranty .
@@mr_mcgoo2632why?
Thank God, somebody demonstrated this! I hate VCM on J series engines! 😩
I owned a Honda Odessey with VCM and it drove me crazy. Every time the VCM kicked in when driving at highway speeds, the engine became erratic. So I purchased and installed a Muzzler and highway speed driving became silky smooth.
Coffee and PHAD, it’s going to be a good day
That's clever, they are using an analog switch to bring the extra resistance in or out.
I loved this series, don't work on cars but on power electronics so this type of content which is technical is very relevant.
Thanks Ivan!
Regards,
Duncan
South Africa
you saved another car you are a miracle worker im glad there are some good mechanics left
Sunday morning coffee with Ivan , thanks
A great, informative series, reminds me of when I was an engineer on Variable Frequency Drives we designed in a circuit so that you could skip over speeds if the system had a resonate speed point below 60 Hertz
Great solution! It seems that the dealer owes this customer a full refund for the work they didn’t do correctly plus the part they sold that is intermittently defective.
Ivan, you don't give up, you have professional confidence and it's interesting to see how you solve problems, the car turned out for the best, thank you
Ivan comes up with what he calls a Russian repair now and then. They're always interesting too.
I might hook mine up to ignition power also. We have a 2023 passport and a 2024 Ridgeline and I purchase this device before I even purchased the vehicles, that's how much I dislike vcm. I researched this before I purchased the cars. I wasn't going to own a vehicle with cylinder deactivation but I wanted this vehicle
An absolutely elegant solution to a thorny problem. Well done Ivan.
Truly an excellent series of sequential, logical diagnosis that surpassed the Honda techs and the diagnostic suggestions of the software. Instead of the term hysteresis, please consider using the term 'differential'. The differential is known as the span between the cut-on temperature and the cut-off temperature. By adding the right amount of resistance to the temp sensor, you elongated the span, which appears to be advantageous for correct fan operation and engine temperature management.. A narrow operating span [ short cycling] will prematurely wear out the controls of the fan operating circuit, or cause additional abnormalities. Once again, excellent analysis, sir.
Sales of the black box fix are going to be through the roof!
Gas milage INCREASED with the mod installed. Honda should provide it free to all present owners of their horrible "gas saving", engine abusing, design effort, along with a letter of apology.
i agree with first vid in this. cylinder deactivation is a terrible idea. a guy a work had a v8 audi and was so proud of the cylinder deactivation. i was like yeah ok hope it works out for you.
Thanks, really neat solution for a car of this age. The fuel saving for cylinder deactivation on a car this old will never pay for the cost of yet another spool valve.
Also very neat having 2 temp sensors, whoever designed the overide did a good job.
Here in California they would look at that device and immediately tell you that you can't do that. I would hide it under loom or something that makes it look more stock.
Yeah! Canadian parts for the WIN!.
. . . . oh and . . . . Frock Trudeau!!!!
Another satisfied customer, eh Ivan? Nice work on this one. I've never understood why Honda went with solid lifters. But yes, these J35 and J37 engines are very sensitive to the valve clearances. Just a few thousands off and it gets really unhappy. Even a seemingly minor misfire can cause damage to the primary catalytic converters if left unchecked. And I'm so glad that you chose to use the VCM disable module. You truly saved this Honda owner from some serious future headaches. Well done Ivan!
Ah yes, the dreaded crapola faux leather peeling problem on the seats and door panels. I found a company based in Texas that makes replacements out of wait for it,,, real leather, imagine that.
Can you name the company. I have someone who needs this bad for arm rests
Don’t know if they make them for Honda, but Range makes the little gizmos that just plug into the diag. port for many domestics. I put one on My wife’s GM weekend cruiser right after she got it and it works great. Nice job Ivan, as always. Happy car, happy customer. 👍👍🇺🇸
The ending of this case study, which shows the Mt. Washington bumper sticker, says it all.
GOOD WORK! AMAZING DIAGNOSTIC SKILLS BY IVAN! JUST ONE PART REQUIRED. THAT ENGINE SOUNDS LIKE A DIESEL ENGINE... I CAN HEAR CLICKING OF FUEL INJECTORS IN ALL MY TOYOTA'S
"Hysteresis" is a word that I haven't heard for a long, long time. Very interesting case here. There was probably in the early 1980s a Cadillac 8-6-4 engine which also disabled cylinders in the hope of saving gas. 😂
I’ve worked on them. But as I recall they were not that technical and most were disabled..
Way too many poor designs ago for me to remember the details.
That VCM disabler should be offered as a dealer installed option.
Better yet, a standard feature.
@@ryan-uz1rwit existed to appease the EPA, so…
The only issue is fuel economy. We drive a Pilot and it’s highway mileage is 22, in the winter (20’s or below) highway driving the Eco stays off and the mileage is pretty bad, 18-19mpg or so. I do love how well it runs though, it’s perfect, responsive and smooth. I did buy the temp kit a couple years ago and was concerned about the cooling fans, but this video answered all my concerns. Finally, I do love the Honda automatic in the Pilot, it’s always in the correct gear for the load and damn smooth, never caught flat footed with medium throttle, always responds with the correct gear, love it. My Tacoma is a joke, GM 1500 is the closest to great, but sometimes waits too long to shift.
VW back in the 80’s used a temperature switch in the bottom of the radiator to kick in the cooling fan. This was always live, so sometimes the fan would continue to run after shutting the car off. Of course, this was before ECU's. In fact they didn’t even use a relay, relying on the switch itself to handle the entire fan current.
I'm relieved to see that Honda uses redundant temperature sensors in this case.
Great fix, thankfully Honda had two engine coolant temp sensors. It saves you a lot of time trying to make more modifications to get the cooling fans to operate normally. The VCM was always a pain with customers' complaints about drivability and with us trying to explain why the car drove that way.
That's a great fix. Who needs that stupid cylinder deactivation?
Won't the A/C fan turn on with the A/C control panel turned on ? Also, that kit should mention this in their instructions that the A/C and cooling fans will not be affected in operation.
Lots of things got unraveled here...good going Ivan.
Good work driving a selective resistive stake through the heart of that VCM. If the motor could, it would send you a Christmas card.
This turned into a great case study Ivan. Thanks!
Ivan thank good someone thought of a way to disable that VCM junk. Too much wear and tear on the valve train with that rubbish!
Nicely done. Problem solved without creating new ones. Excellent troubleshooting!
Your brain never ceases to amaze me Ivan.
Not a Honda, but I've used a Range Technologies AFM disable dongle for several years now in my 2011 Silverado 5.3. Stays plugged into the OBD. One of the best things I've done to the truck.
Cylinder mgmt and stop-start are the height of unnecessary design stupidity.
I did a brief search for kits to disable the insanely annoying start/stop and was surprised to find them for some makes. Neither of my cars have it or have cylinder shutdown, I hope to keep it that way as long as I can.
Yeah, no worries about the fans as they're controlled by ECT2 just like you realized at the end. ECT1 is used by the PCM for VCM and temp gauge display. The only side effects you'll have is about a 50 RPM higher idle. I've had a VCMTunerII installed on my 08 Odyssey for over 150K miles (It has 280k on it now) and never had an issue. I prefer the VCMTunerII as it does all the same things the S-VCM does but it also has a vibration sensor and will revert to normal temp display after 2 minutes of idle, allowing for an idle relearn and other diagnostics without having to unplug it. They're both good devices and better than just splicing/plugging in a fixed resistor which will either not disable VCM enough, or set a P0128 code.
The decade resistance box is too awesome! 😎
honda vcm too many issues, disabling it is your best option
Dang a lot going on in this one! Great job on deciphering all the issues.
The question that nobody is asking us WHY does Honda offer the V-6, only to hobble it to a 4-cylinder mode? Their 4-cyl has plenty of guts. My son had a 2011 Acura TSX wagon and it was a screamer. Easy to service and rock solid (except for an occasional cold start rattle over 150,000 miles.)
"V6 power all the time...", that sounds like I lost 2 cylinders to my V8's 🤣
Another stunning diagnoses and repair by Ivan!
Now the customer will complain that he's not getting the MPG he used to get. 😅😅😅
The customer stated that his mileage was better with the vcm
deleted! Most likely because it was running so piss poor with it on.
At least Honda uses a robust rocker arm locking system that doesn't self-destruct the camshaft when the system fails! So much for the sensitive valve clearance issue. I'll probably be driving my Toyotas for the rest of my life. I definitely won't be troublehooting VCM issues.
one thing always leads to another with modern cars, sometimes it seems endless.
Awesome! I am going to keep that in the back pocket.
Shame about the cylinder disable characteristic, but great idea Honda, having two temp sensors! Great mod Ive!
Pretty sad that we have to reverse engineer modern vehicle controls in order to get the cars running the way they should.
I think a lot of techs, not all, at the dealer are all about beating flat rate. Probably why valve adjustment wasn't done properly.
That's another one of those crazy attempts to create a 4 cylinder from a V6, and like Ivan says, it's JUNK. Fortunately, Honda had a better idea with the second temperature sensor and the door was opened to have that JUNK system "enhanced" (not modified) to eliminate a problem. Don't know what the smog gods would say about it in California, as the engine is operating with the other temp sensor which gives actual engine temperature.
Good fix Ivan!
At 5:58 I have seen those resistors trigger a p0128 engine temp below spec.
great circuit, I tried fooling my GM AFM changing resistance from CTS - a bit sketchy. then used hp tuners to disable the AFM/DOD system ,now it never goes into cylinder cut mode. I should never get lifter collapse failure that they are prone to.
Honda are now having parts made in many countries, some examples are US, Canada, Mexico, Malaysia, India, Japan and of course China, so you never know where your OEM part is coming from. VCM is a feature that no one asked for and its just another thing that will fail, thankfully you put it out of its misery.
Interesting gadget.
It seems to me though that Honda could have come up with a different method of controlling the valves other than temperature.
Ivan could you use the temp sensor to wire in a thermister to over ride the computer control for the fan? Use of such would further redesign the factory design. I worked HVACR and would often toss out the OEM wiring scheme and create my own. Mine worked better quite often and were less complicated. This sort of control redesign will be necessary more and more as design gets more complicated on many devices including autos.
You could add one of those push in the radiatior fins probes and wire it to the fan for normal operation and a diaode so not to back flow the computer circuits the computer wont even know the fan is on
Thanks for verifying the fan issue!!!!!
Gas milage and performance increased significantly after deactivision. Sounds about right XD
just noticed the Ganesha on the instrument cluster. looks like some faith helped put him your way.
In the last video, Ivan called a Buddha and I chuckled a bit.
Ivan has post graduate course work in physics and math - it shows.
Wow i loved that vcm disabler testing.
Ivan, you need a Wilber's pick a part near you.