Another very interesting diagnosis, thanks for uploading all these. What I am particularly thankful for is the effort that you go into to make sure that the viewers of your videos can see what you're doing, have access to all the data screens, etc.
I actually purchased a Toyota factory DS master window switch through eBay from Japan and received it 5 days later to California, for half of what U.S. sellers were asking. Swapped out the bad one for the new one and it's been working perfectly ever since.
Yep, all genuine Toyota parts are only available from Toyota stealerships, but for some reason there is big discrepancie in prices. My local dealer rarely comes close, often twice the price. I don’t get it! I guess that’s why they get the stealership brand. 👍👍🇺🇸
As a late 20 year old mechanic I attended GM training center in Hinsdale, Illinois and learn the value of proper diagnostic testing, it blows me away that somebody younger technicians as they call them these days are just so quick to throw parts at things! Just a little input from a 69-year-old mechanic
So far, I think it's possible that when the customer replaced the ECU after reading the forum solution he misunderstood it to be the engine ECU and not the fuel pump ECU instead. I can see that as an easy mistake to make. But we'll see I guess.
A young friend called me, working at Yoda dealer. A Sienna, idled good, slow acceleration-good. Heavy accel, power dropped-off. The three rear cylinders misfiring. Swapped plugs, coils, no change. I asked him what the fuel pressure was, had not checked. Three days went by, I called him. When he took off the fuel line to check pressure, water and mud ran out of the line. Tank and lines had to be cleaned, tank was 1/4 filled with sand/mud.
What makes Ivan noteworthy is he strives for diagnostic troubleshooting. Nothing wrong with being intune with some anomolies and their symptoms for rapid repair but mostly careful data collection and cogitation is REQUIRED.
Just had one the same on the first visit I looks for vacume leaks . Had a code for 1 bank at the time no problem found and couldn't respond the problem. A few weeks later came back both banks lean . Found no fuel return bypass pressure on the regulator . Fuel pressure was normal but low side . Customer requested a new fuel pump . And it fixed the problem
Another great one Ivan... I do have a concern about mentioning that the owner wants their tow vehicle back on the road again...... With that much frame rust, it might become 2 tow vehicles if pulling more than a Radio Flyer wagon.😂
I wanna scope the input and output of that little module, too! The only thing that's getting me is the amperage and fuel pressure dropping on increased throttle input. The module is capable of putting out more amperage than it does during those increased throttle events, so is the amperage dropping because the pump is falling flat on its face (lower fuel flow versus demand = lower amperage), or because the control signal being sent to that module is telling it to reduce its output? Or is the module misinterpreting the control it's being sent? The amperage measurement is giving us a broad picture, but scoping the input and output of that module could fill in some details. :)
Yes, the current measurement is not telling us whether it is the module that is unable to provide the current, or if it is the pump that does not draw the current. A voltage measurement would be required to tell the difference. If there is voltage but no current, the pump is bad. If there is no voltage, the control module is bad. Since the voltage is duty cycle regulated, a scope measurement of the voltage would probably be most informative.
So many things can cause an engine to run poorly.........throwing ECU's at the problem is pretty random without even a cursory investigation. Boggles the mind, that the previous shop did not even bother putting a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel system........completely anemic fuel flow is not just the pump, it can be many other things. Fuel pressure could be getting lower with load simply because the vac reference line has come off the fuel pressure regulator.......could be collapsed fuel line,blockage etc etc.
lol. Nice one as always Ivan. Scotty Kilmer told me Toyotas were amazingly designed and never go wrong. Nice design Toyota , putting a delicate electronic component on a truck there. Germans would not do that because they properly engineer. To prove this point, BMW fuel pump controllers are always inside the car away from the elements, not hanging underneath on cheap ricer rusting steel. Also love your thorough approach as always Ivan and not just shipping it, but checking the fuel trims after replacing the module. Nice DME programming Toyota that the fuel trims did not start sorting themselves out.
Very interesting diagnosis and part failure. I would be very surprised if it turns out to be multiple failures. The wiring diagram and an oscilloscope are absolutely necessary.
Nice - the amps are telling the story. I had to drive a Sequoia like that one once and found it kind of annoying to drive. The stability controls and all that made anything other than driving slow through turns irritating. It kept trying to correct something.
@bartscave Just take power and ground from the module and jump it to power and ground on the pump. It will be like the module is running at a constant 100% duty cycle.
The same thing happens over and over.1. I'll save money fix it myself or 2. Take it to dealer and 3. Bunch of parts get replaced that aren't faulty 4. Creates more problems because 5. Don't know what could be wrong now because everything is new 6. Goes to pine hollow❤❤❤❤
We see a few a year like that here in Va, usually from the rust belt. Metal case on the FPDM rusts and swells, seal fails, boards becomes water contaminated. Cracked one open recently and it was pretty nasty. Scary call to make on a $3-400 module, but it's a high-percentage failure. Fuel pumps rarely go out on Tundra/Sequoia.
If you have future customers with Asian vehicles who can wait on parts, I recommend getting them from Amayama. That same OE Toyota part is $86+26 shipping for a 2-3 week delivery time straight from Japan. Steering wheel telescope motor for my mom's LS430 was $640 at the dealership or $490 from Lexus online. I got it from Japan for $210+shipping.
I've had good luck with megazip getting Japanese parts for my Honda/Toyota's too. Far cheaper and usually available when they are backordered here in the states
Paused at 12:25 That's madness that it takes the system 90% duty cycle to barely make base fuel pressure with a brand-new fuel pump. If that fuel pump was actually receiving that much power to make that little bit of pressure, it would fry itself in a week. It has to be a bad fuel pump driver module.
It's amazing how you guys just jump into troubleshooting.. without doing operation and description beforehand... We are highly successful in our diagnostic troubleshooting.. because before we dig into a unknown vehicle.. read book of operation and description first then we proceed without troubleshooting.
Great, needed a break from other stuff. I’ve got a 06 Highlander coming tomorrow that one of my good clients ( his girlfriend’s vehicle) questioned me about a couple weeks ago. He told me the symptoms and said her “guy” told her it needed O2 sensors and a cat! I told him I seriously doubt if that was the problem, but would gladly check it out. Well, You can guess what she did, and now She wants Me to check it out. I just hope I have better luck with Mitchell1 this time , or I might have to hit you up for some wiring diagrams. Got totally ripped on that last week.
Was it a genuine Toyota fuel pump that was fitted or some cheapo aftermarket garbage?? Alarm bells start ringing as soon as Flagship One is mentioned!!
If I was on your place I would check the pulses on the pins for the pump at 25% with and without load (I assume that the module is some kind of PWM ), also I would power it directly from the battery and start the engine to see if it run better.
I would check that funny noise if it is a half return half returnless system design. Could have a controlled leakback that is no longer controlled properly.
Great diagnostic, Ivan! I was guessing the fuel pump installed was not OEM and could be failing, or the flow is restricted due to debris in the tank . But them you measured currents (can't escape the scope in these cases), and no way a clogged pump would draw less than normal current. It may well be the pump control ECU - failing expensive transistor driver, perhaps. Part 2 will clear this doubt :-)
I’ve worked on many Hino (Toyota HD) trucks. Whatever metal they use to make the nuts and bolts that hold the entire truck together is not meant to last in this area of the world. I’ve seen a 2020 that looked like it spent 20 years in salt water.
Snap on literally is an all in one and can do the same thing. Just need to minimize the scope and activate it through the scan tool. You can watch exactly what you need to
In OEM data there may be a table correlating ECM fuel pump duty cycle command to average fuel pump current. Edit: I wanted to add that the control module problem failure mode is very strange. The fuel pump motor drive circuit will have a switching current control approach, perhaps hysteretic current control. With this type of control, with a high enough sample rate on the Picoscope, you should see the effects of the RL circuit time constant effects as Peak to Peak current switching transitions done in such a way to control to an average set current command from the ECM. You can see this on your Picoscope captures in the video. The issue is what failure mode would skew the reference set point to produce a reduced current when we know module power and ground are good? The circuitry probably uses an accurate voltage reference to guide the proper operation of the analog front end which will then control the switching driver. Meaning the only thing I think would produce the problem is a faulty voltage reference or buffer circuit. The problem with this guess is voltage reference circuits are extremely reliable. So, what module failure mode is causing the problem, perhaps corrosion on the PCB? Can we open the module and look inside? You may be able to fix the module if it is corrosion and have no parts required.
Made the mistake of replacing mine on a F150 the first time with a Dorman product and I was back under there in a few months replacing it with a OEM version. Tried to save a money and it cost me time and money. Go OEM on this part for sure.
I would have also scoped the output volts of the module to the fuel pump. The current clamp is good, but it'll only show what the fuel pump is accepting for current. If you have an open or corroded connection the current clamp will report, surprise surprise, less current. Verifying the module is actually supplying a clean 0-12V duty cycle to the pump could have prove without a doubt if the module was good or not. Given how you saw 0 amps at lower duty cycles does suggest it's the module since you should see _some_ current regardless of the duty cycle. I would also be curious to see what the ECU is seeing for fuel pressure. I would assume it has a fuel pressure sensor, the fact it's lowering the duty cycle of the pump while being blow spec might hint at a sensor that's skewed and over reporting fuel pressure to the ECU. It's very curious why there would be a return line on a duty cycle system. I would think the return rail would have a regulator that regulates pressure, but then why does the pump need a duty cycle controller at all? very odd.
Fuel pump current is programmed to keep the fuel psi LOWER than the mechanical regulator setpoint (47psi) to avoid dumping fuel back into the tank under normal conditions 😉
Why can't you bypass the fuel pump ecu for diagnostics and give the fuel pump full voltage/current to fully ensure it is the box? Fuel Pumps ran for decades without being duty cycled. You seemed concerned although it looks like the box is bad to me and this truck is supposed to have a brand new Toyota pump. I am not an engineer but I have wondered for years why they locate these fuel pump control modules under the vehicle... I also don't understand why the PCM can't just take the place of this module but at the very least these modules need to be inside or underhood.
I own a 2007 Toyota Tundra sr5 5.7l and the fuel pump control module always goes out on them. My box was so rusty it didn't make any sense. It would blow my fuse after running about 5 to 10 seconds. It took me 2 weeks to figure it out because all i had was a test light. I tested everything and it sent me straight to the module.
Ivan, could you bypass the PWM pump box just to test the max pressure of the pump? (& look at the waveforms on the pump wires & measure the draw perhaps?)
I know you've already figured it out in part two, but I'm only half way through part one. I want to see if the fuel pressures regulator is going bad, or if you have an intermittent fuel pump problem.
I subbed to your channel last week , and I'm glad! I'm a Diy'er. And appreciate your knowledge. By necessity I've become a Diy'er. Thank you. From the Oregon Coastal Mountains Range.
Can you open that module and check for a cracked solder joint? Or, is it potted? When they replaced the pump, did they have to unplug from this module? It worked for a short time, then failed again. Maybe a bad connection inside the module that they temporarily fixed by unplugging and plugging in the pump?
I was so "right there with you" on everything until the 1 volt drop on a 6 amp circuit. That still seems substantial to me. Either way, as long as you avoiding listings "For Genuine OEM" xxxxxx Watch for the word 'FOR'. Excellent find by the way... From Japan.
Did you measure the voltage applied directly to the pump motor Ivan? If in the fault condition you have voltage to the motor but no current, it would indicate a bad pump motor.
at 25% duty: extreme values (extreme right, extreme left) should be viewed with caution. I have seen a case when a scanner sends 5% Intake Flap open position command on diesel RAM, only to get reply that such address is invalid and the flap not moving for that command. The other values, 10%, 25%, 50%, 90%, 100% worked well. Lesson to me was that scanner software has some bugs, has features that actual vehicle's hardware is not able to respond to. Gotta use a scanner with a grain of salt.
Would it be possible to power the pump from a variable power supply and see how it performs at lower currents? (Or other means of introducing current limiting, power rheostat, lamps etc.)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Overall not bad, but you know where these things live and I'm in the northeast up by the 45th parallel. The module itself was crusted up like yours. I was able to get the mounting bolt out but had to cut off one the little screws, the other broke loose with a pair of vise grips.
chicken or the egg the fuel pump might have replaced for erratic fuel pressure but the real reason seems to be the magic box causing the erratic pressure which i pretty confident most car don't have
Would it have been worth temporarily bypassing the controller and running the pump direct from 12v for a test drive to ensure fuel trims return to normal?
It isn't the fuel pump resistor is it as I had a Toyota Tacoma that would stall out and when started ran for a few minutes and would quit running, resistor was in front of the battery on that Tacoma
Too bad the strategy used by the fuel pump control box is not documented. Now you can't determine if it is the box or the pump. Maybe they put in the wrong fuel pump or did not install it correctly. I think i would have a look at the pump first before buying a new controller box...
I wonder if those scientists at the dealership know about pump controller existence, how could they quote ECU directly after pump no go??...I only wonder why the pressure slides down, because of the return line?
ivan, please go over your fuel pressure gauge plumb in.... also, could you have put full voltage directly to the pump to make sure the problem isn't the pump or the lines? is there a regulator as well?
Watching Ivan instead of election coverage
Me too 😂
Same!
Same same 😂 schools in session yaal 📖🤓
Yep
Waiting for Trumps up and coming victory
I vote for Ivan and Eric O!
Wouldn't the U.S be a better place if those 2 were Pres and VP lol. Citizen complaints, let's diagnose the problem.
@@Bub61fd MAGA!
@@Pr0ph3cy-k5z Who would fix our cars then?
@@GregoryGlessnerViolin With the government not demanding your car break down, there is no fixing needed.
@@Pr0ph3cy-k5z to quote the fake news. RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA.... 🤣🤣😂😂😅
Another very interesting diagnosis, thanks for uploading all these. What I am particularly thankful for is the effort that you go into to make sure that the viewers of your videos can see what you're doing, have access to all the data screens, etc.
I actually purchased a Toyota factory DS master window switch through eBay from Japan and received it 5 days later to California, for half of what U.S. sellers were asking.
Swapped out the bad one for the new one and it's been working perfectly ever since.
I have many genuine parts sources in Japan and UAE and must cheaper often then locally (New Zealand)
Yep, all genuine Toyota parts are only available from Toyota stealerships, but for some reason there is big discrepancie in prices. My local dealer rarely comes close, often twice the price. I don’t get it! I guess that’s why they get the stealership brand. 👍👍🇺🇸
I always feel smarter after watching your videos.
Without the correct knowledge and test equipment the average Joe would be clueless. Ivan provides vital information that fill in the blanks.
Apparently so are some mechanics.
As a late 20 year old mechanic I attended GM training center in Hinsdale, Illinois and learn the value of proper diagnostic testing, it blows me away that somebody younger technicians as they call them these days are just so quick to throw parts at things! Just a little input from a 69-year-old mechanic
So far, I think it's possible that when the customer replaced the ECU after reading the forum solution he misunderstood it to be the engine ECU and not the fuel pump ECU instead. I can see that as an easy mistake to make. But we'll see I guess.
Straight voltage, bypass it to check pump and no internal leaks
no need to do that. when testing fuel pressure you saw that the pump could put out enough pressure....
A young friend called me, working at Yoda dealer. A Sienna, idled good, slow acceleration-good. Heavy accel, power dropped-off. The three rear cylinders misfiring. Swapped plugs, coils, no change. I asked him what the fuel pressure was, had not checked. Three days went by, I called him. When he took off the fuel line to check pressure, water and mud ran out of the line. Tank and lines had to be cleaned, tank was 1/4 filled with sand/mud.
Mud ran out? Didn't he check it after the filter?
Angry girlfriend...😅
What makes Ivan noteworthy is he strives for diagnostic troubleshooting. Nothing wrong with being intune with some anomolies and their symptoms for rapid repair but mostly careful data collection and cogitation is REQUIRED.
That approach is sadly all but extinct in the majority of repair shops....they just throw parts at the problem.....
@@alex241This is the EVENTUAL goal of Car computers = to self diagnose down to either faulty part or faulty circuit.
IVAN 2024 BABY! MAKE DIAGNOSTICS GREAT AGAIN! Eric O for VP!
Ivan is MAGA: Making Automobiles Great Again 🫡🇺🇸
I'd love to see the Car Care Nut give his opinion on this case.
Thank you Ivan. Looking forward to next segment!
Ivan for President 2024!
President of PHAD!
Just had one the same on the first visit I looks for vacume leaks . Had a code for 1 bank at the time no problem found and couldn't respond the problem. A few weeks later came back both banks lean . Found no fuel return bypass pressure on the regulator . Fuel pressure was normal but low side . Customer requested a new fuel pump . And it fixed the problem
What were the fuel trims and actual fuel pressure?
You need a long trip up to Bath, NY’s Wilbert’s U-Pull-It auto salvage…they’ll for sure have known good one!
Uhhhh the ones up there will be rusty pieces of crap xD
You slave, you save! 😅
Eric is that you not a sponsor
Smart charging and smart fueling makes me want a carburetor car
Another great one Ivan... I do have a concern about mentioning that the owner wants their tow vehicle back on the road again...... With that much frame rust, it might become 2 tow vehicles if pulling more than a Radio Flyer wagon.😂
Rrrrrr. I hate being left in suspense!
I wanna scope the input and output of that little module, too! The only thing that's getting me is the amperage and fuel pressure dropping on increased throttle input. The module is capable of putting out more amperage than it does during those increased throttle events, so is the amperage dropping because the pump is falling flat on its face (lower fuel flow versus demand = lower amperage), or because the control signal being sent to that module is telling it to reduce its output? Or is the module misinterpreting the control it's being sent? The amperage measurement is giving us a broad picture, but scoping the input and output of that module could fill in some details. :)
Yes, the current measurement is not telling us whether it is the module that is unable to provide the current, or if it is the pump that does not draw the current. A voltage measurement would be required to tell the difference. If there is voltage but no current, the pump is bad. If there is no voltage, the control module is bad. Since the voltage is duty cycle regulated, a scope measurement of the voltage would probably be most informative.
So many things can cause an engine to run poorly.........throwing ECU's at the problem is pretty random without even a cursory investigation. Boggles the mind, that the previous shop did not even bother putting a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel system........completely anemic fuel flow is not just the pump, it can be many other things. Fuel pressure could be getting lower with load simply because the vac reference line has come off the fuel pressure regulator.......could be collapsed fuel line,blockage etc etc.
lol. Nice one as always Ivan. Scotty Kilmer told me Toyotas were amazingly designed and never go wrong. Nice design Toyota , putting a delicate electronic component on a truck there. Germans would not do that because they properly engineer. To prove this point, BMW fuel pump controllers are always inside the car away from the elements, not hanging underneath on cheap ricer rusting steel. Also love your thorough approach as always Ivan and not just shipping it, but checking the fuel trims after replacing the module. Nice DME programming Toyota that the fuel trims did not start sorting themselves out.
Very interesting diagnosis and part failure. I would be very surprised if it turns out to be multiple failures. The wiring diagram and an oscilloscope are absolutely necessary.
Wondering if you can bypass FPCM and directly (jumper) check pump current. On the right track... thanks for posting!!
Nice - the amps are telling the story.
I had to drive a Sequoia like that one once and found it kind of annoying to drive. The stability controls and all that made anything other than driving slow through turns irritating. It kept trying to correct something.
Easiest and quickest way to check the fuel pump control module is to by pass it.
How do you bypass it?
@bartscave Just take power and ground from the module and jump it to power and ground on the pump. It will be like the module is running at a constant 100% duty cycle.
@@bartscavejust hot wire it , that way you don’t have a computer turning it on/ off speeding it up/ slowing it down…😊
The same thing happens over and over.1. I'll save money fix it myself or 2. Take it to dealer and 3. Bunch of parts get replaced that aren't faulty 4. Creates more problems because 5. Don't know what could be wrong now because everything is new 6. Goes to pine hollow❤❤❤❤
Always a pleasure watching your expertise Ivan
We see a few a year like that here in Va, usually from the rust belt. Metal case on the FPDM rusts and swells, seal fails, boards becomes water contaminated. Cracked one open recently and it was pretty nasty. Scary call to make on a $3-400 module, but it's a high-percentage failure. Fuel pumps rarely go out on Tundra/Sequoia.
If you have future customers with Asian vehicles who can wait on parts, I recommend getting them from Amayama. That same OE Toyota part is $86+26 shipping for a 2-3 week delivery time straight from Japan.
Steering wheel telescope motor for my mom's LS430 was $640 at the dealership or $490 from Lexus online. I got it from Japan for $210+shipping.
I've had good luck with megazip getting Japanese parts for my Honda/Toyota's too. Far cheaper and usually available when they are backordered here in the states
3 week wait time is usually unacceptable for customers 😅
Paused at 12:25 That's madness that it takes the system 90% duty cycle to barely make base fuel pressure with a brand-new fuel pump. If that fuel pump was actually receiving that much power to make that little bit of pressure, it would fry itself in a week. It has to be a bad fuel pump driver module.
I have floating debris in the tank cause similar issues
It's amazing how you guys just jump into troubleshooting.. without doing operation and description beforehand... We are highly successful in our diagnostic troubleshooting.. because before we dig into a unknown vehicle.. read book of operation and description first then we proceed without troubleshooting.
i think you meant "with troubleshooting".
your point is very valid, you must know the system before you can fix it.
Great, needed a break from other stuff. I’ve got a 06 Highlander coming tomorrow that one of my good clients ( his girlfriend’s vehicle) questioned me about a couple weeks ago. He told me the symptoms and said her “guy” told her it needed O2 sensors and a cat! I told him I seriously doubt if that was the problem, but would gladly check it out. Well, You can guess what she did, and now She wants Me to check it out. I just hope I have better luck with Mitchell1 this time , or I might have to hit you up for some wiring diagrams. Got totally ripped on that last week.
Was it a genuine Toyota fuel pump that was fitted or some cheapo aftermarket garbage??
Alarm bells start ringing as soon as Flagship One is mentioned!!
I live in the UK and after watching Ivan, even I know not to buy an ECU from Flagship one 😂😂
If I was on your place I would check the pulses on the pins for the pump at 25% with and without load (I assume that the module is some kind of PWM ), also I would power it directly from the battery and start the engine to see if it run better.
To confirm the pump is ok, could connect a variable DC power across the pump and check the pressure.
I would check that funny noise if it is a half return half returnless system design. Could have a controlled leakback that is no longer controlled properly.
Great diagnostic, Ivan! I was guessing the fuel pump installed was not OEM and could be failing, or the flow is restricted due to debris in the tank . But them you measured currents (can't escape the scope in these cases), and no way a clogged pump would draw less than normal current. It may well be the pump control ECU - failing expensive transistor driver, perhaps.
Part 2 will clear this doubt :-)
Always interesting videos 👍🏻👍🏻🇬🇧
I can’t wait to see what happens. I keep checking to see if you’ve posted the Pt2 video. 🤣.
I’ve worked on many Hino (Toyota HD) trucks. Whatever metal they use to make the nuts and bolts that hold the entire truck together is not meant to last in this area of the world. I’ve seen a 2020 that looked like it spent 20 years in salt water.
Snap on literally is an all in one and can do the same thing. Just need to minimize the scope and activate it through the scan tool. You can watch exactly what you need to
That's a real pain lol😂
You need separate screens 😉
Nice video and Interesting case study. As another test could you feed power to the fuel pump at a higher amperage rate to see what fuel pump would do?
In OEM data there may be a table correlating ECM fuel pump duty cycle command to average fuel pump current.
Edit: I wanted to add that the control module problem failure mode is very strange. The fuel pump motor drive circuit will have a switching current control approach, perhaps hysteretic current control. With this type of control, with a high enough sample rate on the Picoscope, you should see the effects of the RL circuit time constant effects as Peak to Peak current switching transitions done in such a way to control to an average set current command from the ECM. You can see this on your Picoscope captures in the video.
The issue is what failure mode would skew the reference set point to produce a reduced current when we know module power and ground are good? The circuitry probably uses an accurate voltage reference to guide the proper operation of the analog front end which will then control the switching driver. Meaning the only thing I think would produce the problem is a faulty voltage reference or buffer circuit. The problem with this guess is voltage reference circuits are extremely reliable. So, what module failure mode is causing the problem, perhaps corrosion on the PCB? Can we open the module and look inside? You may be able to fix the module if it is corrosion and have no parts required.
Part 2 coming right up 😉
Remember that fuel pump control for the small block Chevy??? The 1/2 inch diameter 6 inch long steel rod !!??????😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
What about an obstruction? Clogged filter, clogged sock? Internally collapsing hone? I guess that would have affected the top end more?
Man I miss the days of a one speed fuel pump with a simple relay and regulator on the rail or better yet, in the tank.
Thanks Ivan!
Made the mistake of replacing mine on a F150 the first time with a Dorman product and I was back under there in a few months replacing it with a OEM version. Tried to save a money and it cost me time and money. Go OEM on this part for sure.
so funny....Ivan reads "Flagship one"....oh oh.....
Could one bypass the fpcm and run the pump directly with a fused power and ground? This would prove if its module or pump, surely?
Thanks Ivan.
I would have also scoped the output volts of the module to the fuel pump. The current clamp is good, but it'll only show what the fuel pump is accepting for current. If you have an open or corroded connection the current clamp will report, surprise surprise, less current. Verifying the module is actually supplying a clean 0-12V duty cycle to the pump could have prove without a doubt if the module was good or not. Given how you saw 0 amps at lower duty cycles does suggest it's the module since you should see _some_ current regardless of the duty cycle.
I would also be curious to see what the ECU is seeing for fuel pressure. I would assume it has a fuel pressure sensor, the fact it's lowering the duty cycle of the pump while being blow spec might hint at a sensor that's skewed and over reporting fuel pressure to the ECU. It's very curious why there would be a return line on a duty cycle system. I would think the return rail would have a regulator that regulates pressure, but then why does the pump need a duty cycle controller at all? very odd.
The v8's in the sequoia and tundra do not have a fuel pressure sensor.
Fuel pump current is programmed to keep the fuel psi LOWER than the mechanical regulator setpoint (47psi) to avoid dumping fuel back into the tank under normal conditions 😉
Brilliant analysis.
Why can't you bypass the fuel pump ecu for diagnostics and give the fuel pump full voltage/current to fully ensure it is the box? Fuel Pumps ran for decades without being duty cycled. You seemed concerned although it looks like the box is bad to me and this truck is supposed to have a brand new Toyota pump. I am not an engineer but I have wondered for years why they locate these fuel pump control modules under the vehicle... I also don't understand why the PCM can't just take the place of this module but at the very least these modules need to be inside or underhood.
Was guessing sediment in the fuel tank before watching through to the end.
I own a 2007 Toyota Tundra sr5 5.7l and the fuel pump control module always goes out on them. My box was so rusty it didn't make any sense. It would blow my fuse after running about 5 to 10 seconds. It took me 2 weeks to figure it out because all i had was a test light. I tested everything and it sent me straight to the module.
Watching new PHAD video and have a new president. YEAH
Ivan, could you bypass the PWM pump box just to test the max pressure of the pump? (& look at the waveforms on the pump wires & measure the draw perhaps?)
I know you've already figured it out in part two, but I'm only half way through part one. I want to see if the fuel pressures regulator is going bad, or if you have an intermittent fuel pump problem.
I can't believe they charged $85 for them to take it back when it's their error
I subbed to your channel last week , and I'm glad! I'm a Diy'er. And appreciate your knowledge. By necessity I've become a Diy'er. Thank you. From the Oregon Coastal Mountains Range.
Welcome! 😊
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics thank you sir;
Nice video Ivan.
Ivan in situations like this how do you determine through testing that the module is bad and not the component the module is controlling?
It's the module i just did one on a Tundra same issue.
That would be my bet . 👍👍🇺🇸
Do you got a license to carry that parts cannon
Let Ivan do testing and not guess
Same SYMPTOM does not mean same cause...that's why professionals test, not guess. If you been following this channel at all, you would get it...
Can you open that module and check for a cracked solder joint? Or, is it potted? When they replaced the pump, did they have to unplug from this module? It worked for a short time, then failed again. Maybe a bad connection inside the module that they temporarily fixed by unplugging and plugging in the pump?
We'll see in Part 2 😁
I was so "right there with you" on everything until the 1 volt drop on a 6 amp circuit. That still seems substantial to me. Either way, as long as you avoiding listings "For Genuine OEM" xxxxxx Watch for the word 'FOR'. Excellent find by the way... From Japan.
We won Ivan !
Check control circuit from the ECM at the module to verify
I have beat the bots👍edit : NM
Did you measure the voltage applied directly to the pump motor Ivan?
If in the fault condition you have voltage to the motor but no current, it would indicate a bad pump motor.
Hey Ivan. Could you power up the fuel pump with the jumper wire and then test the fuel pressure and amperage?
at 25% duty: extreme values (extreme right, extreme left) should be viewed with caution. I have seen a case when a scanner sends 5% Intake Flap open position command on diesel RAM, only to get reply that such address is invalid and the flap not moving for that command. The other values, 10%, 25%, 50%, 90%, 100% worked well. Lesson to me was that scanner software has some bugs, has features that actual vehicle's hardware is not able to respond to. Gotta use a scanner with a grain of salt.
I'm sick and tired of fixing my ToyOtA to 😅
I would measure the Controller output voltage with the scope and check the duty cycle. Command 50% and see if you get 50%.
Would it be possible to power the pump from a variable power supply and see how it performs at lower currents? (Or other means of introducing current limiting, power rheostat, lamps etc.)
For testing purposes could you bypass the module to check pressure on the pump while idling ?
I had a 2018 Sequoia just today. Had a bad fuel pump control module. Bogging down, stalling, hard start.
Wow a 2018? Was it rusty? 😮
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Overall not bad, but you know where these things live and I'm in the northeast up by the 45th parallel. The module itself was crusted up like yours. I was able to get the mounting bolt out but had to cut off one the little screws, the other broke loose with a pair of vise grips.
What was the noise when pump was at 100 percent? I'd still look into what you called a return line. How does the ecm monitor this for control?
Just the regulator opening up. Stays closed under normal operation on this design 👍
chicken or the egg the fuel pump might have replaced for erratic fuel pressure but the real reason seems to be the magic box causing the erratic pressure which i pretty confident most car don't have
Ivan the great.
Ivan if you buy it from Dubai $200 with shipping included
Can you share the website of Dubai parts store?
Would it have been worth temporarily bypassing the controller and running the pump direct from 12v for a test drive to ensure fuel trims return to normal?
That risks overload the pump since it's never designed to run at 100% duty cycle 👍
Be careful Ivan, Toyota fans don't take criticism well.
Oh B.S. 😅
@@HelicopterDad-u5b welcome to the real world where we tell it like it is 😆
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnosticsthanks for all the info!
I would like to have seen the output (voltage duty cycle) to the fuel pump on the scope. Is the module properly outputting the correct duty cycle.
any bets on Flagship 1 junk or an after market fuel pump
On to part 2.
You couldnt jump straight power and ground to pump just to see if pump is capable of putting out full psi and amperage?
It isn't the fuel pump resistor is it as I had a Toyota Tacoma that would stall out and when started ran for a few minutes and would quit running, resistor was in front of the battery on that Tacoma
Wonder what the pwm out of the faulty controller looks like on the scope.
I was going crazy watching this, all I kept thinking, is why not pinch off the return line to see if the regulator is good or not?
Too bad the strategy used by the fuel pump control box is not documented. Now you can't determine if it is the box or the pump. Maybe they put in the wrong fuel pump or did not install it correctly. I think i would have a look at the pump first before buying a new controller box...
I wonder if those scientists at the dealership know about pump controller existence, how could they quote ECU directly after pump no go??...I only wonder why the pressure slides down, because of the return line?
what would be the result if you bypass the the control box would you risk damage to the vehicle just for test purposes
Couldn’t you verify the pumps pressure by giving it power through different amperage test lights to test duty cycles?
My first thought was a return fuel pressure regulator. 🤔🧐 On the return line, but this vehicle does not have one.
It has one... But the design is to keep the fuel psi LOWER than the mechanical regulator setpoint 😊
ivan, please go over your fuel pressure gauge plumb in.... also, could you have put full voltage directly to the pump to make sure the problem isn't the pump or the lines? is there a regulator as well?
Can't beat the bots😂😂