Evangelicals think that god puts a high value on free-will, but, in the old testament, god violates people's free-will all over the place-and-in the new testament also.He really likes hardening people's heart for sure.
Even today, much of intercessory prayer involves asking God to do things that would involve forcing other people to do things against their "free" will.
It's just a book anyway like LOTR or Harry Potter which also have devoted followers. This book probably tells the heirs of its authors to have wars with Palestine. Jesus was teaching good and love and mercy but those who enjoy Old Testament disregard Jesus.
I find it interesting, amusing and telling that SoS is more precise in his word choices and far more honest in his reasoning than so many native English speakers. Obviously, SoS is more intelligent, thoughtful and honest than the cavalcade of Cretinous Xians that make apologies for their tri-omni god(s), an undertaking that obviates its primary intent of proving the existence of their god(s) and his perfectly written Bible. And they are happy to utilise whatever means are necessary to “prove” their point: dishonesty, slippery language, lies, logical legerdemain, distortions and any other ruse or feint these peddlers of apologetics care to use. Cheers, SoS and thank you for the video.
@@philo5227 Spot on! It's a sign that using fallacies is by design, and with it conning the gullible for their own personal gain, meaning they are also all conning each other, including the ones that work closely together!
@@Isaac-hm6ih First of all the OP didn't say the video was trying to demonstrate the existence of a god at all! He said the author is assuming THE CHRISTIAN god exists as a premise of the argument already, as if it were already demonstrably true! The video is about why evil is justified if god is the evil doer! It's called "The problem of evil" and is almost as old as the bible itself, because a supposedly all Loving creator god, by any metric of al rational logic and reasoning could create the world without it, so then why does it exist, and how can anyone justify it!!! If someone who's never heard of god (the christian, jewish and muslim one are all the very same god), and was not religious or from a religion where god did not create everything, and be worshiped as all loving which I don't think any of the thousands of other god myths do, asking why evil exists, would of course invite hypothesizing the issue. The question is specific to the christian god, the claim he is the creator, and the one that he is all loving, and that despite all that try to justify the existence of evil. Do you know what "trying to defend the indefensible" means, How about "trying to justify injustice"? The author of the video is called a"Christian apologist", and Apologists are not about apologizing for what their religions do that is bad, but justifying it! How can you have such a lack of understanding of any of it when it's blatantly obvious in the video, the liner notes, this whole comment section, and christianity in world history??? Any which way it's all freaking make believe unless someone proves their go, religion...has any truth to it, and never once has that ever happened!!
"Free will' is how believers try to excuse their god's cruelty, apathy, and incompetence. It's the foundation of their apologetics for the problem of evil But the bible clearly and repeatedly tells us that we do NOT have free will.
@@deniss2623 "what more do you want?" I dont' want anything from you. didn't ask for anything. I just stated a fact that points to the cognitive dissonance. And destroys primary apologists talking points. The only thing that concerns me is people can't keep their religious views to themselves.
@@deniss2623 What's the national motto? What's the 3rd line that was added to the pledge? What's the pages from a magic book they want to post in Louisiana public classrooms? What's the magic book they want to start teaching in public schools in conservative states? Who's running for president that has the undying loyalty and support of evangelicals? What is the Great Commission? As soon as you answer these questions, you'll have my answer to yours.
- Ah, but it's ok because you'll be mind controlled! - Isn't that breaking free will? - Ah, but that's ok because you'll have signed it away under threat of infinite pain if you don't!
Beware of false prophets, those who impose evil on others are happy to have calm, safe boring lives themselves. They don't go to wars, they just send others who sweat and bleed to not be "bored".
Nice breakdown of the problem of evil. But there's also the problem of good. Ask any Xian to back up their silly "God is good" belief with a list of acts they believe their god would never do to anyone and watch them balk! Proving that they believe their god might do anything to anyone, any time for any reason. But that's _not_ good!
Many subscribers don't tell much about the channel author's or his audience level of critical thinking. In fact this kind of sophisticated apologetics will attract a lot of audience.
_Why_ would God create evil? I dunno why, but He _does._ "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
it is absolutely hallucinating how believers come up with such mental gymnastics in order to help their god retain decency. what free will is free that choosing one way lands you in hell?
According to that book, god said; "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth..." God specifically used the word "Replenish". Meaning to Fill (something) up again. Restore (a stock or supply) to a former level or condition. This means that The world we know today was not god's first attempt! God had got it wrong at least once before. So much for 'all knowing'.
" I bet that if you created your own little a world, you would have created it the exact same way, and you wouldn't want it any other way" Right off the bat this guy must be off his freaking rocker, and I have never once in my life heard anyone when asked "If you could change just a single thing in this world, what would it be" they would already be in conflict with the "just one thing" part, because as soon as you ask the question, almost everyone, even a child of that age where they by becoming self aware, also aware of others, and all that comes with i, even if they have no clue what all comes with it and even lived a pretty sheltered life, already has had things pop into their head they see as something that shouldn't happen, or shouldn't exist, and so would probably question me with "One thing? How about more than one?" or instead of "more than one" anything from "I can give you a few right now", to "I could write a series of books as large as the encyclopedia Britannica on it"! So he would lose the bet immediately after asking with something nearly everyone like our seeming inability to not be violent toward each other or other creatures... No way even a single fundamentalist christian sociopath could agree with that they would make it exactly the same way, unless they are lying for god (and so to themselves), think you are asking a trick question! Even every psychopath, sociopath, narcissist... the most evil disgusting people would want to at least change a few things even if to make it even worse, in order to serve or please them. and to "let me explain and it will all come together in the end". I would probably answer with no hesitation "No it won't, I guarantee it, and I up your bet to everything I own and myself as a slave, because I know he's so full of shit he shouldn't be talking to me but the people at the institution tasked to reprogram his sick and broken mind! If religion can do this to people then freedom of religion is misplaced altruism and should be abolished starting millennia ago!
Billions of stars? Nope. There are ~2 trillion galaxies alone. If we assume that each has ~1 billion stars, that's 2 sextillion stars, planets and moons. 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000! Talk about overkill! 😄
Well... if we have 1,000,000,000 billion stars, they are correct... I might be off by an order of magnitude though... but it is still billions of stars.
The standard explanation I've heard, is that a) Goodnes is boring. Evil is fun.* God created evil so that people could have fun. HOWEVER, b) God created suffering so that when people are NOT suffering, they'll know how good things are at that moment. *My highly religious mother used to say, half-jokingly "Everything that's fun is either fattening or sinful". Backstory: she had been a brat as a child, but somehow got religion in or before college. But her baseline brattiness always resented the moral restrictions that her found religion placed on her.
If you think about those kind of explanations, they all end saying that a world with evil is better than a world without evil. That's obviously a contradiction, things can't be better if you add some evil, because, it that was possible, than that 'evil' would be 'good', not 'evil'.
Religious people misuse or twist words like belief and faith. I don't believe anything but I'll accept things based on reason, logic and rational arguments. I don't have faith in anything but I'll give my trust to people and things based on reasonable expectations. Recent way of thinking this, there is a different mindset between secular and religious usage of words.
Another problem with this is even if you tried to program your definition of good, the AI's definition of Good may be entirely different from your definition of Good.
@@gregsanich5183 Depends on the nature of said theism. If it was pantheist for example there wouldn't be much difference, Abrahamist on the other hand...
One of the things that started me on the path to atheism was the bible god putting the tree of knowledge in the garden and telling Adam and Eve not to eat from it. If he knew what the result would be, why put the tree there in the first place?!
@@juanausensi499 In the bible there is the story of that tree of knowledge ... I think what makes man a man instead of an ape is improvement of his brain: The capability of better decisions. So, that's the most important step of becoming human. IMO comparable to eating that fruit of the tree of knowlege, in both cases it stands somehow at the beginning.
The problem of evil and suffering are 2 separate issues which apologetics conveniently merge as the one issue. You can suffer from the evil of mankind (this is where the free will debate makes some sense). And then you can also suffer from natural phenomena like floods, storms and the ecosystem battle between animal species and microbes. Then is also suffering from mutations of the genetic codes of cellular organisms which gives rise to birth defects, childhood cancers and increasingly powerful superbugs which can be a literal threat of extinction for mankind.
@gregsanich5183, even if “natural phenomena” is designed, that would imply the deity in question is at best, designed for randomness, and at worst, is a sadist. There is nothing “all good” about this mechanism of design, if it indeed was designed.
@@johnwho4794 perhaps, but I see no way of discerning what possible demeanor, if any, such an entity would possibly have, or how that would be relevant to its existence.
@nealjroberts4050 excellent question. With a sample size of only 1 single observable universe to work with, it really is impossible to tell if everything was designed, or not, but we do have countless examples of things we know for certain were designed ,bc we designed them. Thst at least serves to demonstrate agency & design is a possibility.
10:28 "and BORING" oh no! Boring for who? The people on the planet, no they can still lead interesting lives. The one(s) watching? Yes! A toy was made for their amusement, and it failed to amuse, so obviously it was built poorly. This whole thought experiment implies we're playthings for God's amusement. I'll take it one step further: all holy books are inspired by God, not because they're true, but to keep us "interesting".
10:24 "The world was all very clean, shiny, peaceful, prosperous, well-ordered, super-advanced... and boring. Just like heaven. So God decided to put an evil tree in the middle of the place. That'll fix everything. So, is heaven boring? Or is there evil in heaven, like my fundamentalist aunt?
So, what I get from this video is that Beggar doesn't understand how AI works (he's confusing today's AI with Asimov's Three Laws or Robotics,) he's a sneak, switching in making same decisions for making ethical decisions, and that God is an awful programmer creating a world full of bugs.
The main flaw with IMBeggar's video is that he thinks that creator or/and creature must feel bored. Boredom almost certainly has evolutionary reasons, natural selection has favoured individuals with the capacity to feel bored probably because they are more likely to discover or create things that improve their survival chances or mating. But for perfect being (be it god or some creature) it's not needed and it's even harmful. Most people don't realize that and see the bigger picture, even for me sometimes this argument seems so convincing on the emotional level because I also feel bored like other people, but if you think rationally it's not a good thing by itself, it's a crutch, it's a part and consequence of the imperfect world. This is almost like claiming that medicine (which often has negative side effects) is a right or inevitable thing without questioning why diseases exist in the first place.
If we compare the universe to a giant dessert, Earth wouldn't even be a tiny grain of sand-it'd be more like a single sugar molecule in the farthest corner of the dish. The universe is so vast that Earth, despite feeling huge to us, is practically nothing compared to the endless expanse of galaxies, stars, and cosmic dust out there.
Where does the assumption come from that we are doing all the same thing predictably? that is quite a leap. And even if so, if its a perfect world, noone would care and not be bored or unhappy.
Apparently, these AI engineers designed this "experiment", started it up, and then all took off for a few weeks in the Maldives while their "program" is allowed to run wild without ANY supervision, monitoring or oversight. Actually "testing" things against established requirements is for losers...and apparently, "god".
Does anyone know what IMBeegger's point was? Cuz I'm not sure. Here's what I took away from it: "god" is no better than a bunch of human AI engineers. And what is with the Christian obsession with "evil"? I'm asking this rhetorically, since we all know what most "believers", whatever their stripe, consider "evil" to be is anything/anybody that is not part of their cult. The question is not why "god" would create an "evil" world, but why "god" would "create" a world besieged by earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados, hurricanes, cyclones, floods, droughts, locusts, flesh-eating bacteria, Hook Worms, Bot Flies, volcanoes, rabies, bubonic plague, cancer, asteroids, etc., etc., ad nauseum, ad infinitum. Now according to the likes of deniss2623 and houstandy1009, the aforementioned ARE "evil', but "god" did not "create" them...WE did, by our "evil/sinful" nature. Mentally masticate on that for a few minutes, brothers and sisters. Just another reason why Christian doctrine is irrational, silly and cruel.
But it's 100% true! Last tuesday i committed adultery in my heart and, three days later, an unrelated country suffered an earthcuake. Coincidence? I think not!
They seem to have a moral assumption that effort is fundamentally good, completely separate from the results. For example resisting bad desires is better, somehow, than not having them in the first place specifically so that they can be resisted.
You know what the believers will say, the devil makes you do evil. Then knowing that he would become evil, why create the devil? Oh yea the answer for having no answers: FREE WILL!
What he first described is similar to the garden of Eden. Was it an evil choice that led to this evil? Eating from a tree of knowledge, implying they didn't have any knowledge. So they had no way of deciding when an evil snake told them different?
😭I already saw this covered by someone else. Dude wrote a third rate sci-fi plot and used it as evidence for his argument. If we want to believe in a fictional story we can go directly with the Bible. More fiction only works for those who are already believers.
@@sound.of.science OK so you believe God doesn't exist , but evil exists , mankind exists , therefore ( you must accept ) mankind must have created evil from free will . Ergo, so IF God exists, who gave us free will , we can say say irrefutably *He* didn't create evil. Therefore root cause of evil solved. God would be blameless. Youre welcome. 😉
The question Beggar _doesn't_ address is why his god _created_ evil in the first place. Evil _isn't_ just an absence of good: it is intentional harm or intentional disregard of the potential for harm to others..
The problem is that he can't un-believe in god, so in every step of his silly thought experiment he assumes a god exists, which makes the thought experiment boring.
A perfect all seeing god does not need a do over! And the god of the bible has many do overs. This god fellow does not seem to know his arse from his elbow.
Christians like Beggar posit that their god had no beginning, yet created everything. But why would any being who lived untold eons of eternities suddenly find a need to create a universe after all that 'endless non time"? Did "he" go stir crazy, develop multiple personality disorder and his alter egos got together and created the universe in spite of the original god's wishes?
it is worse than that. If it is an ALL-creating g0d, and happy with the perfect void, then the g0d will never create space-time. Thus, it will never reach the next moment, when the g0d would decide to create stuff.
We don't need a god to explain evil. Man's volition is all we need, and all evil needs. The only thing that makes it possible is the sanction of the victim.
@@sound.of.science True. I always say that God is the answer to a question that doesn't exist. The question of who or what created everything is invalid. You don't say "Ok, now let me explain existence."
This guy's argument is...A world *without* God's created child cancer, ability to gRape, horrific diseases, crippling pain, murder, death, suffering, ECT...is boring! so God allowing all that and more is...better?!?
There is NO FREE WILL from the beginning because the person does not exist to deny it's existence or tell god "no thanks. I don't want to play your psychopathic games on earth." So God is forcing people into the world so he can have some predatory love? If God had all imaginative power, he could have made it possible for consent before creating humans.
My favorite thing about the "free will" argument is that it's a rebuttal of the argument against evil/suffering that is a challenge to the god of the Bible whomis all knowing, all powerful, and cares about your well-being.... But the Bible itself doesn't make the argument that free will is necessary or desired by God.... It's completely made up by apologists....
God's Great Experiment in the Garden of Eden was flawed. Why? Because his Big Test was based on obedience, not knowledge. Adam did not have the ability to decide what he should do based on a decision between right and wrong. Very similar to the relationship between a parent and a very young child who doesn't understand the difference between right and wrong. The child obeys because of a fear of punishment. Almost all Biblical morality is based on this. In the first 3 Gospels when people ask what they need to do in order to inherit eternal life, they are told to obey the Commandments.
As SOS points out the Problem of Evil is only a problem with an alleged omnibenevolent yet omnipotent creator. The polytheists never have this Problem. The deists don't. Us pantheists don't either.
So isn't not giving me wings so I can choose to fly with them also robbing me of free will? Also saving I can't make an evil choice doesn't mean that unintended evil wouldn't happen. I mean if I drop a gun and it goes off and kills somebody I didn't choose to do it but the person who died and their loved ones would feel that evil had been done. The person who died was prematurely removed from the world.
Very important question and difficult problem. I am afraid we would get Owen Wilson or Tom Hanks for a Bond villain... But what would be their evil plan? Donating food to the poor and needy? What would be their secret hide-out? A modest 3 bedroom house in the sub-urbs of Philadelphia? What would be their ride? A Toyota?
BTW if these guys programmed the bots then the bots don't have free will they will only execute their programming. If they do show free will it will be a software bug and not something from the programmers.
We have versions upon versions upon versions of translations of translations of translations of their god's alleged word, and each and every one of these appear to have been made with quite possibly the sole intent of ensuring that an ever-growing number of his self-described followers _never_ read his "word" and instead turn to an old man in a bathrobe with the biggest motivation ever - i.e. his bank account - to keep the followers around and giving him money, with the only parts of the alleged word that the followers ever pay attention to, let alone practice for themselves, being the ones that explicitly demand them to be the biggest POS ever. Yeah, saying that their god is evil is putting it _very_ mildly.
wanna lead ignorant masses? Keep them in fear! Wanna keep them in fear? Give them something scary they, by definition, cannot even hope to test. oh, also give them targets they can vent their frustration on. Make sure it is ALWAYS a minority. The tribe next door, "sinners", albinos, "witches", etc. The king chose to have fancy meals and insane golden pallaces. He paid nobody to work for some decades and figure out the plague, for example. His underlings could hate him for this. But if they are brainwashed and in fear, they will hate a target they were brainwashed to hate. that's not why g0ds were invented. It was rather the g0d of the gaps, and it helped a lot. F.e. less fear in a battle, if you BELIEVE that a g0d is with you. But it is evil scam and crowd control why our deities were MAINTAINED. By the time we were building our first cities, we sure were smart enough. We could have thrown all this into the garbage. Sadly, it was too useful for too powerful leaders.
The free will and predestination debate is a long one. If one does not see and understand that God is not limited to the time and space dimensions that we are limited to, then the free will and predestination debate cannot be resolved. Mankind is limited to one forward timeline and 3 dimensions of space. We know that for God to create the universe, God must be able to operate in many more dimensions of time and space. We see this in prayer, God can hear millions of people praying all at the same time. Only one more dimension of time is needed to do this. Our timeline is limited, it is singular and always moves forward. God does not have these limits with 2 or more time dimensions
"If one does not see and understand that God is not limited to the time and space dimensions that we are limited to" There is nothing to see or understand about that. It is just one of the many unsubstantiated claims about the god character. First proves he exist. Then we can see what his properties are.
@@sound.of.science Biblical Hebrew has a smaller vocabulary than English. In biblical Hebrew, there is no word for universe. Instead, the Hebrew phrase that is translated “the heavens and the earth” is used to refer to the universe-the entirety of physical reality. The phrase is used thirteen times in the Old Testament, always referring to all matter, energy, space, and time in the universe. We now know that event was 13.787 ±0.020 billion years. This has been checked, proven and measured with many tools and they all agree. It is not just space that came to be 13.787 billion years ago, but time also. The universe is finite and expanding. Just as the Bible stated thousands of years ago. To deny the existence of a Creator is an error.
@@sound.of.science No, science says so. Biblical Hebrew has a smaller vocabulary than English. In biblical Hebrew, there is no word for universe. Instead, the Hebrew phrase that is translated “the heavens and the earth” is used to refer to the universe-the entirety of physical reality. The phrase is used thirteen times in the Old Testament, always referring to all matter, energy, space, and time in the universe. We now know that event was 13.787 ±0.020 billion years. This has been checked, proven and measured with many tools and they all agree. It is not just space that came to be 13.787 billion years ago, but time also. The universe is finite and expanding. Just as the Bible stated thousands of years ago. To deny the existence of a Creator is an error. The space-time theorems of the universe tell us the Casual Agent (God) that brought this universe into existence must be able to operate in more space and time dimensions. God with just one more time dimension is able to hear and understand the prayers of millions of people all at the same time. God with extra dimensions of space is able to be both one and three. We have a very hard time visualizing these extra dimensions. Mathematicians routinely stray outside our dimensions. Sometimes this work involves additional physical dimensions, such as those required by string theory.
he basically said a perfect world with no evil will be boring, what does he think heaven is meant to be! congrats on saying it will be boring like church boring
Easy. If you assume the g0d, then the g0d is assumed and you can make fancy robot videos for the g0d fans. Sigh... Those engineers should have built a g0d detector, not robots.
So I understand why the apologist wouldn't like my scenario. In the apologists mind, the earth was perfect, but mankind destroyed it. Obviously that means mankind will eventually destroy heaven. Which makes perfect sense. Then the good people in heaven, will be saved, and get to go to super heaven!
@@sound.of.science Sorry, I do not believe in telepathy. So, you do not know who my God is. And... you would utterly surprised (to the point of speechlessness) if I told you who he is. And it is not he. It is HE. 🙂
@@sound.of.science So there is a God (yours, I guess) that causes unimaginable suffering. So what? What do you know of unimaginable suffering anyway? Have YOU ever endured it? I have. And I am tired of people speaking of things they do know anything about.
6:49 Come on, you're not being entirely fair there, he's attempting to demonstrate the implications of different designs of world. An omni-god wouldn't have to actually make it because of having already thought through the implications, but it IS necessarily for the analogy. There are many other problems with this video.
"but it IS necessarily for the analogy." Yes, it is necessary for the analogy to work. But if you need to insert parts that only work on one side of the anology, then the analogy is flawed. "There are many other problems with this video." Please give me your best example...
@sound.of.science Oh, I meant problems with the video you were RESPONDING to! It's full of holes, my favourite probably being the idea that not suffering is somehow inherently boring. I'm on your side here, I just thought this ONE objection wasn't completely fair.
@lilmsgs touche' I believe ppl are better off with a code of conduct, or set of guidelines for behavior, than not. Its been proven that ppl act more appropriately when they believe they are going to be accountable for their actions.
@@gregsanich5183 sure... who decides what that code of conduct should be? remember: The theoretical physicist Steven Weinberg. It states: "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion."
@lilmsgs but that's demonstrably false. Just look at soviet Russia or maos China. Plenty of good ppl did terrible things, after the state had already kyboshed religion. So there goes that theory. The only thing you need for thst is fear. Fact is that there is no action or behavior (no matter how vile or despicable ) that is condemned, restricted, or prohibited in any way whatsoever by athiesm. Athiesm is completely compatible with any of it. The only thing off the table would be believing that there's any higher authority that might hold us accountable for anything we do.
Please what a silly question God? as god is not a proper name way the capital G after the word informing of a deity god?? must come the gods name /names
I dont know what god he talking about this is a rotten way to begin a recital I actually the correct words for Invoking god Odin god Odin all father of everything?
God created evil to make love sensible. Why should you love somebody, if your love makes no difference? Your loved ones never get sick. They will never get hurt. It would be a nightmare for me, if I lived in a world where my love wouldn't make the slightest difference. I can't proof that God exists, but I axiomaticly assume that God exists.
So, then what's the point of "heaven"? If there will be no evil there, then love won't make any difference, according to your rationale. It would be a nightmare and your sensible god's love wouldn't matter.
"Your loved ones never get sick. They will never get hurt. It would be a nightmare fo r me" So you desperately want your loved ones to get hurt and sick? Then those are not your 'loved ones'. Your loved ones are the people you desperately DON'T want to get hurt and sick. Amazing how religion feeds insanity.
So by your own logic heaven (or paradise) is illogical because there is only happiness? BTW love really doesn't need any evil, we can love without suffering.
@@Seticzech But love would be senseless without the possibility of evil. So even in heaven there is the possibility of doing evil, but you have to face the consequences, which are hell.
Evangelicals think that god puts a high value on free-will, but, in the old testament, god violates people's free-will all over the place-and-in the new testament also.He really likes hardening people's heart for sure.
Agreed. God of the Bible doesn’t give a flying fuck about your freedom to make a choice
Even today, much of intercessory prayer involves asking God to do things that would involve forcing other people to do things against their "free" will.
@@roytee3127
And against an _unchangeable_ plan too.
And then blames them for their actions.
It's just a book anyway like LOTR or Harry Potter which also have devoted followers. This book probably tells the heirs of its authors to have wars with Palestine. Jesus was teaching good and love and mercy but those who enjoy Old Testament disregard Jesus.
"Do. Or do not. There is no try,."
"I think I'll create a world where some organisms must kill and eat other organisms to survive." -God 🤨
Exactly!
"At the same time, some of the organisms that are being eaten do not need to consume any other organism..." - Also God
He’s the Lord of the flies, the creator of parasites, diseases, disorders and death.
Didn't you hear? "god" didn't "create" those things...WE did...because of our "sinful/evil' nature.
@@philo5227 Nope
“So remember, children, your free will is evil and can only send you to hell. Obeeeeyyy. Obeeeeyyy.”
Beware of false prophets.
Imbeggar sounds like a cartoon supervillain
Not as much as the dude making this video.
@@houstandy1009 nope
@@UltraVioletKnight it is like, the voice he puts on is comedy gold.
@@houstandy1009
He sounds like Batman you mean?
@@houstandy1009
He sounds like Batman you mean?
I find it interesting, amusing and telling that SoS is more precise in his word choices and far more honest in his reasoning than so many native English speakers.
Obviously, SoS is more intelligent, thoughtful and honest than the cavalcade of Cretinous Xians that make apologies for their tri-omni god(s), an undertaking that obviates its primary intent of proving the existence of their god(s) and his perfectly written Bible. And they are happy to utilise whatever means are necessary to “prove” their point: dishonesty, slippery language, lies, logical legerdemain, distortions and any other ruse or feint these peddlers of apologetics care to use.
Cheers, SoS and thank you for the video.
You're welcome and thanks for your wonderful comment!
Beggar started with begging the question, assuming his god exists in the first place. "why god would allow evil...."
If you took away fallacious reasoning from "apologetics", it would cease to exist.
@@philo5227 Zhit, you have got a point there, my bad. lol
@@philo5227 Spot on! It's a sign that using fallacies is by design, and with it conning the gullible for their own personal gain, meaning they are also all conning each other, including the ones that work closely together!
Taking it as a hypothetical seems reasonable, it doesn't seem like THAT video's trying to demonstrate the existence of a god.
@@Isaac-hm6ih First of all the OP didn't say the video was trying to demonstrate the existence of a god at all! He said the author is assuming THE CHRISTIAN god exists as a premise of the argument already, as if it were already demonstrably true! The video is about why evil is justified if god is the evil doer!
It's called "The problem of evil" and is almost as old as the bible itself, because a supposedly all Loving creator god, by any metric of al rational logic and reasoning could create the world without it, so then why does it exist, and how can anyone justify it!!!
If someone who's never heard of god (the christian, jewish and muslim one are all the very same god), and was not religious or from a religion where god did not create everything, and be worshiped as all loving which I don't think any of the thousands of other god myths do, asking why evil exists, would of course invite hypothesizing the issue.
The question is specific to the christian god, the claim he is the creator, and the one that he is all loving, and that despite all that try to justify the existence of evil.
Do you know what "trying to defend the indefensible" means, How about "trying to justify injustice"? The author of the video is called a"Christian apologist", and Apologists are not about apologizing for what their religions do that is bad, but justifying it!
How can you have such a lack of understanding of any of it when it's blatantly obvious in the video, the liner notes, this whole comment section, and christianity in world history???
Any which way it's all freaking make believe unless someone proves their go, religion...has any truth to it, and never once has that ever happened!!
So that dude thinks not doing evil things is boring and apparently god.
"Free will' is how believers try to excuse their god's cruelty, apathy, and incompetence.
It's the foundation of their apologetics for the problem of evil
But the bible clearly and repeatedly tells us that we do NOT have free will.
It wasn't in this video, but I've also heard it said that free will can not exist in a world with no evil. Unless it's special pleading for heaven.
@@GuitarDog_atx
As much as it concerns you, you do have a choice. What more do you want?
@@deniss2623 "what more do you want?"
I dont' want anything from you. didn't ask for anything.
I just stated a fact that points to the cognitive dissonance. And destroys primary apologists talking points.
The only thing that concerns me is people can't keep their religious views to themselves.
@@GuitarDog_atx
So why don't you keep your views to yourself?
@@deniss2623 What's the national motto?
What's the 3rd line that was added to the pledge?
What's the pages from a magic book they want to post in Louisiana public classrooms?
What's the magic book they want to start teaching in public schools in conservative states?
Who's running for president that has the undying loyalty and support of evangelicals?
What is the Great Commission?
As soon as you answer these questions, you'll have my answer to yours.
see these apologists are insufferable, a world without suffering is boring in his eyes, so heaven won’t be?
Not only would "heaven" be boring, it would be boring for all eternity.
- Ah, but it's ok because you'll be mind controlled!
- Isn't that breaking free will?
- Ah, but that's ok because you'll have signed it away under threat of infinite pain if you don't!
Beware of false prophets, those who impose evil on others are happy to have calm, safe boring lives themselves. They don't go to wars, they just send others who sweat and bleed to not be "bored".
Evil created god!
Gives an insight into the thought processes of those goat herders, eh?
So is he saying that heaven is boring? I mean it meets his criteria for his first scenario.
Nice breakdown of the problem of evil. But there's also the problem of good. Ask any Xian to back up their silly "God is good" belief with a list of acts they believe their god would never do to anyone and watch them balk! Proving that they believe their god might do anything to anyone, any time for any reason. But that's _not_ good!
Double standards. If you kill all the firstborns of an entire nation, you are a evil man, no matter your reasons. If God does that, that's ok.
@@juanausensi499
And some will literally argue that!
If this is the level of thinking displayed in the rest of his videos, I am gobsmacked that he has almost 400K subscribers.
Very shallow end of the pool.
Many subscribers don't tell much about the channel author's or his audience level of critical thinking. In fact this kind of sophisticated apologetics will attract a lot of audience.
The greatest con duo ever! God can't look like a hero firefighter if He stops his arsonist son Satan from his allowed rampage
_Why_ would God create evil? I dunno why, but He _does._
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
Entertainment, schadenfreude.
Or as we call it in Sweden, Skadeglädje.
Totally independent. (Not).
I do enjoy your longer content. Thanks 🙏
“If we start with a watchmaker…”
it is absolutely hallucinating how believers come up with such mental gymnastics in order to help their god retain decency. what free will is free that choosing one way lands you in hell?
Simple question for the Christians... What act could your God do that would be considered evil?
Allow extinction 😂
According to that book, god said; "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth..."
God specifically used the word "Replenish". Meaning to Fill (something) up again. Restore (a stock or supply) to a former level or condition. This means that The world we know today was not god's first attempt! God had got it wrong at least once before. So much for 'all knowing'.
This apologetical attempt is merely a camouflaged free will argument, one of the more ancient (and dismantled) arguments.
So God's just an incompetent computer programmer....
But clearly also a psychopath so least hes fun right...?
" I bet that if you created your own little a world, you would have created it the exact same way, and you wouldn't want it any other way"
Right off the bat this guy must be off his freaking rocker, and I have never once in my life heard anyone when asked "If you could change just a single thing in this world, what would it be" they would already be in conflict with the "just one thing" part, because as soon as you ask the question, almost everyone, even a child of that age where they by becoming self aware, also aware of others, and all that comes with i, even if they have no clue what all comes with it and even lived a pretty sheltered life, already has had things pop into their head they see as something that shouldn't happen, or shouldn't exist, and so would probably question me with "One thing? How about more than one?" or instead of "more than one" anything from "I can give you a few right now", to "I could write a series of books as large as the encyclopedia Britannica on it"! So he would lose the bet immediately after asking with something nearly everyone like our seeming inability to not be violent toward each other or other creatures...
No way even a single fundamentalist christian sociopath could agree with that they would make it exactly the same way, unless they are lying for god (and so to themselves), think you are asking a trick question! Even every psychopath, sociopath, narcissist... the most evil disgusting people would want to at least change a few things even if to make it even worse, in order to serve or please them.
and to "let me explain and it will all come together in the end". I would probably answer with no hesitation "No it won't, I guarantee it, and I up your bet to everything I own and myself as a slave, because I know he's so full of shit he shouldn't be talking to me but the people at the institution tasked to reprogram his sick and broken mind!
If religion can do this to people then freedom of religion is misplaced altruism and should be abolished starting millennia ago!
Wordplay is all IMBeggar does at the core. Great presentation though, got to give him that.
Billions of stars? Nope. There are ~2 trillion galaxies alone. If we assume that each has ~1 billion stars, that's 2 sextillion stars, planets and moons. 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000! Talk about overkill! 😄
There's got to be life on a number of other planets based on probability.
Well... if we have 1,000,000,000 billion stars, they are correct... I might be off by an order of magnitude though... but it is still billions of stars.
@@duncanbryson1167 There probably are millions of other planets that have life, but not one with a god.
@@gleanerman2195
There might be different god beliefs on other planets.
How can we know how many when we can't even see how many?
And then create a word where people are born happy and viabrent only to fade away frail and silent, in dementia
The standard explanation I've heard, is that
a) Goodnes is boring. Evil is fun.* God created evil so that people could have fun. HOWEVER,
b) God created suffering so that when people are NOT suffering, they'll know how good things are at that moment.
*My highly religious mother used to say, half-jokingly "Everything that's fun is either fattening or sinful". Backstory: she had been a brat as a child, but somehow got religion in or before college. But her baseline brattiness always resented the moral restrictions that her found religion placed on her.
If you think about those kind of explanations, they all end saying that a world with evil is better than a world without evil.
That's obviously a contradiction, things can't be better if you add some evil, because, it that was possible, than that 'evil' would be 'good', not 'evil'.
Religious people misuse or twist words like belief and faith. I don't believe anything but I'll accept things based on reason, logic and rational arguments. I don't have faith in anything but I'll give my trust to people and things based on reasonable expectations. Recent way of thinking this, there is a different mindset between secular and religious usage of words.
also this thing that belief should equal worship...
Great analysis, thanks!
My pleasure!
Very young children dying in agony from incurable diseases is evidence that, if God exists, he is evil.
Or doesn't give a shit
Another problem with this is even if you tried to program your definition of good, the AI's definition of Good may be entirely different from your definition of Good.
Would AI be more or less dangerous to mankind if it had a God belief?
@@gregsanich5183 I don't know.
@@gregsanich5183
Depends on the nature of said theism.
If it was pantheist for example there wouldn't be much difference, Abrahamist on the other hand...
@nealjroberts4050 what do you mean?
Can you elaborate on this?
Yet even with free will , many are still bored .That didn't work out well 🙄
One of the things that started me on the path to atheism was the bible god putting the tree of knowledge in the garden and telling Adam and Eve not to eat from it. If he knew what the result would be, why put the tree there in the first place?!
Because man invented him to be like man.
What I would like to know is what would have happened if an animal had eaten the fruit.
@@juanausensi499
It's like man would have been in the state of an animal before.
Just like in rhe evolution theories ... 😂
@@whoff59 I'm sorry... what?
@@juanausensi499
In the bible there is the story of that tree of knowledge ...
I think what makes man a man instead of an ape is improvement of his brain:
The capability of better decisions.
So, that's the most important step of becoming human.
IMO comparable to eating that fruit of the tree of knowlege, in both cases it stands somehow at the beginning.
The problem of evil and suffering are 2 separate issues which apologetics conveniently merge as the one issue. You can suffer from the evil of mankind (this is where the free will debate makes some sense). And then you can also suffer from natural phenomena like floods, storms and the ecosystem battle between animal species and microbes. Then is also suffering from mutations of the genetic codes of cellular organisms which gives rise to birth defects, childhood cancers and increasingly powerful superbugs which can be a literal threat of extinction for mankind.
How do you determine if ' natural phenomenon' are designed or not?
@gregsanich5183, even if “natural phenomena” is designed, that would imply the deity in question is at best, designed for randomness, and at worst, is a sadist. There is nothing “all good” about this mechanism of design, if it indeed was designed.
@@johnwho4794 perhaps, but I see no way of discerning what possible demeanor, if any, such an entity would possibly have, or how that would be relevant to its existence.
@@gregsanich5183
How is "design" determined?
@nealjroberts4050 excellent question.
With a sample size of only 1 single observable universe to work with, it really is impossible to tell if everything was designed, or not, but we do have countless examples of things we know for certain were designed ,bc we designed them.
Thst at least serves to demonstrate agency & design is a possibility.
10:28 "and BORING" oh no! Boring for who? The people on the planet, no they can still lead interesting lives. The one(s) watching? Yes! A toy was made for their amusement, and it failed to amuse, so obviously it was built poorly.
This whole thought experiment implies we're playthings for God's amusement. I'll take it one step further: all holy books are inspired by God, not because they're true, but to keep us "interesting".
Theists have problems with the question 'for whom?'. Maybe they believe boredom is objective.
10:24 "The world was all very clean, shiny, peaceful, prosperous, well-ordered, super-advanced... and boring. Just like heaven.
So God decided to put an evil tree in the middle of the place. That'll fix everything.
So, is heaven boring? Or is there evil in heaven, like my fundamentalist aunt?
So, what I get from this video is that Beggar doesn't understand how AI works (he's confusing today's AI with Asimov's Three Laws or Robotics,) he's a sneak, switching in making same decisions for making ethical decisions, and that God is an awful programmer creating a world full of bugs.
If no evil in our world making it boring then heaven where the christians want to spend their afterlife for eternity must be boring too
The main flaw with IMBeggar's video is that he thinks that creator or/and creature must feel bored. Boredom almost certainly has evolutionary reasons, natural selection has favoured individuals with the capacity to feel bored probably because they are more likely to discover or create things that improve their survival chances or mating. But for perfect being (be it god or some creature) it's not needed and it's even harmful. Most people don't realize that and see the bigger picture, even for me sometimes this argument seems so convincing on the emotional level because I also feel bored like other people, but if you think rationally it's not a good thing by itself, it's a crutch, it's a part and consequence of the imperfect world. This is almost like claiming that medicine (which often has negative side effects) is a right or inevitable thing without questioning why diseases exist in the first place.
The answer is simple. It's because to be in His image we need the knowledge of good and evil.
If we compare the universe to a giant dessert, Earth wouldn't even be a tiny grain of sand-it'd be more like a single sugar molecule in the farthest corner of the dish. The universe is so vast that Earth, despite feeling huge to us, is practically nothing compared to the endless expanse of galaxies, stars, and cosmic dust out there.
Where does the assumption come from that we are doing all the same thing predictably? that is quite a leap. And even if so, if its a perfect world, noone would care and not be bored or unhappy.
Another problem with the comparison is that A God could allow the evil Thoughts but inhibit acting on it.
Apparently, these AI engineers designed this "experiment", started it up, and then all took off for a few weeks in the Maldives while their "program" is allowed to run wild without ANY supervision, monitoring or oversight. Actually "testing" things against established requirements is for losers...and apparently, "god".
god ? name IT god is not a name after god must come its name names
@@ashwayn I didn't name a god because was not referring to a specific God.
@@RadChild13 easy get out?
@@ashwayn no. It's the reason your request is irrelevant to the statement.
Does anyone know what IMBeegger's point was? Cuz I'm not sure. Here's what I took away from it: "god" is no better than a bunch of human AI engineers. And what is with the Christian obsession with "evil"? I'm asking this rhetorically, since we all know what most "believers", whatever their stripe, consider "evil" to be is anything/anybody that is not part of their cult. The question is not why "god" would create an "evil" world, but why "god" would "create" a world besieged by earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados, hurricanes, cyclones, floods, droughts, locusts, flesh-eating bacteria, Hook Worms, Bot Flies, volcanoes, rabies, bubonic plague, cancer, asteroids, etc., etc., ad nauseum, ad infinitum.
Now according to the likes of deniss2623 and houstandy1009, the aforementioned ARE "evil', but "god" did not "create" them...WE did, by our "evil/sinful" nature.
Mentally masticate on that for a few minutes, brothers and sisters. Just another reason why Christian doctrine is irrational, silly and cruel.
But it's 100% true! Last tuesday i committed adultery in my heart and, three days later, an unrelated country suffered an earthcuake. Coincidence? I think not!
They seem to have a moral assumption that effort is fundamentally good, completely separate from the results. For example resisting bad desires is better, somehow, than not having them in the first place specifically so that they can be resisted.
@@Isaac-hm6ih It's the narcissits' version of 'better': whatever strokes my ego best
Should I assume their lack of response to this is an admission? 😉
You know what the believers will say, the devil makes you do evil. Then knowing that he would become evil, why create the devil? Oh yea the answer for having no answers: FREE WILL!
What he first described is similar to the garden of Eden. Was it an evil choice that led to this evil? Eating from a tree of knowledge, implying they didn't have any knowledge. So they had no way of deciding when an evil snake told them different?
Did he insinuate that the reason "god" made the world full of evil, is because he was board? That is worse than what the Bible says....
😭I already saw this covered by someone else. Dude wrote a third rate sci-fi plot and used it as evidence for his argument.
If we want to believe in a fictional story we can go directly with the Bible. More fiction only works for those who are already believers.
According to scripture, evil exists because that’s how YHWH planned it.
And my video asks: why did he do that? He could have easily created a world without evil. Which would have saved millions of lives.
@@sound.of.science
And that's why some of them came up with the "it's a test" solution.
Which has since been twisted in all manner of ways.
And then of course we should mention that the supposed god is supposedly all-knowing. So why would he need a test? He already knows the outcomce.
@@sound.of.science
And not to mention that omniscience removes free will completely
@@sound.of.science OK so you believe God doesn't exist , but evil exists , mankind exists , therefore ( you must accept ) mankind must have created evil from free will . Ergo, so IF God exists, who gave us free will , we can say say irrefutably *He* didn't create evil. Therefore root cause of evil solved. God would be blameless. Youre welcome. 😉
Yep....its all nonsense isn't it...
The question Beggar _doesn't_ address is why his god _created_ evil in the first place. Evil _isn't_ just an absence of good: it is intentional harm or intentional disregard of the potential for harm to others..
The problem is that he can't un-believe in god, so in every step of his silly thought experiment he assumes a god exists, which makes the thought experiment boring.
A perfect all seeing god does not need a do over! And the god of the bible has many do overs. This god fellow does not seem to know his arse from his elbow.
Christians like Beggar posit that their god had no beginning, yet created everything. But why would any being who lived untold eons of eternities suddenly find a need to create a universe after all that 'endless non time"? Did "he" go stir crazy, develop multiple personality disorder and his alter egos got together and created the universe in spite of the original god's wishes?
it is worse than that. If it is an ALL-creating g0d, and happy with the perfect void, then the g0d will never create space-time. Thus, it will never reach the next moment, when the g0d would decide to create stuff.
Typical nonsensical religious gibberish. Dishonesty, misinformation, speculation, assumptions, ignorance and wishful thinking. Zero facts.
We don't need a god to explain evil. Man's volition is all we need, and all evil needs. The only thing that makes it possible is the sanction of the victim.
We don't need a god to explain anything....
@@sound.of.science True. I always say that God is the answer to a question that doesn't exist. The question of who or what created everything is invalid. You don't say "Ok, now let me explain existence."
This guy's argument is...A world *without* God's created child cancer, ability to gRape, horrific diseases, crippling pain, murder, death, suffering, ECT...is boring! so God allowing all that and more is...better?!?
I assume he would be unable to eat rancid meat or vomit. Does that diminish his free will?
There is NO FREE WILL from the beginning because the person does not exist to deny it's existence or tell god "no thanks. I don't want to play your psychopathic games on earth." So God is forcing people into the world so he can have some predatory love? If God had all imaginative power, he could have made it possible for consent before creating humans.
Beggar is oddly ironic as all he does is beg the question...
My favorite thing about the "free will" argument is that it's a rebuttal of the argument against evil/suffering that is a challenge to the god of the Bible whomis all knowing, all powerful, and cares about your well-being....
But the Bible itself doesn't make the argument that free will is necessary or desired by God....
It's completely made up by apologists....
He didnt coz he doesnt exist. We created it
God's Great Experiment in the Garden of Eden was flawed.
Why?
Because his Big Test was based on obedience, not knowledge.
Adam did not have the ability to decide what he should do based on a decision between right and wrong.
Very similar to the relationship between a parent and a very young child who doesn't understand the difference between right and wrong. The child obeys because of a fear of punishment. Almost all Biblical morality is based on this. In the first 3 Gospels when people ask what they need to do in order to inherit eternal life, they are told to obey the Commandments.
As SOS points out the Problem of Evil is only a problem with an alleged omnibenevolent yet omnipotent creator.
The polytheists never have this Problem. The deists don't. Us pantheists don't either.
So isn't not giving me wings so I can choose to fly with them also robbing me of free will? Also saving I can't make an evil choice doesn't mean that unintended evil wouldn't happen. I mean if I drop a gun and it goes off and kills somebody I didn't choose to do it but the person who died and their loved ones would feel that evil had been done. The person who died was prematurely removed from the world.
If the world was created with no evil who would play the Bond villain ?
Very important question and difficult problem. I am afraid we would get Owen Wilson or Tom Hanks for a Bond villain... But what would be their evil plan? Donating food to the poor and needy? What would be their secret hide-out? A modest 3 bedroom house in the sub-urbs of Philadelphia? What would be their ride? A Toyota?
BTW if these guys programmed the bots then the bots don't have free will they will only execute their programming. If they do show free will it will be a software bug and not something from the programmers.
So that means that Heaven is boring?
he seems to be beggarring many questions
We have versions upon versions upon versions of translations of translations of translations of their god's alleged word, and each and every one of these appear to have been made with quite possibly the sole intent of ensuring that an ever-growing number of his self-described followers _never_ read his "word" and instead turn to an old man in a bathrobe with the biggest motivation ever - i.e. his bank account - to keep the followers around and giving him money, with the only parts of the alleged word that the followers ever pay attention to, let alone practice for themselves, being the ones that explicitly demand them to be the biggest POS ever.
Yeah, saying that their god is evil is putting it _very_ mildly.
Evil is really lovely, if you look at it backwards, at least then it's not dead argument.
Why would the world create an evil god?
To oppress the people and steal from them.
wanna lead ignorant masses? Keep them in fear! Wanna keep them in fear? Give them something scary they, by definition, cannot even hope to test.
oh, also give them targets they can vent their frustration on. Make sure it is ALWAYS a minority. The tribe next door, "sinners", albinos, "witches", etc.
The king chose to have fancy meals and insane golden pallaces. He paid nobody to work for some decades and figure out the plague, for example. His underlings could hate him for this. But if they are brainwashed and in fear, they will hate a target they were brainwashed to hate.
that's not why g0ds were invented. It was rather the g0d of the gaps, and it helped a lot. F.e. less fear in a battle, if you BELIEVE that a g0d is with you.
But it is evil scam and crowd control why our deities were MAINTAINED. By the time we were building our first cities, we sure were smart enough. We could have thrown all this into the garbage. Sadly, it was too useful for too powerful leaders.
The free will and predestination debate is a long one. If one does not see and understand that God is not limited to the time and space dimensions that we are limited to, then the free will and predestination debate cannot be resolved. Mankind is limited to one forward timeline and 3 dimensions of space. We know that for God to create the universe, God must be able to operate in many more dimensions of time and space. We see this in prayer, God can hear millions of people praying all at the same time. Only one more dimension of time is needed to do this. Our timeline is limited, it is singular and always moves forward. God does not have these limits with 2 or more time dimensions
"If one does not see and understand that God is not limited to the time and space dimensions that we are limited to"
There is nothing to see or understand about that. It is just one of the many unsubstantiated claims about the god character. First proves he exist. Then we can see what his properties are.
@@sound.of.science Biblical Hebrew has a smaller vocabulary than English. In biblical Hebrew, there is no word for universe. Instead, the Hebrew phrase that is translated “the heavens and the earth” is used to refer to the universe-the entirety of physical reality. The phrase is used thirteen times in the Old Testament, always referring to all matter, energy, space, and time in the universe. We now know that event was 13.787 ±0.020 billion years. This has been checked, proven and measured with many tools and they all agree. It is not just space that came to be 13.787 billion years ago, but time also. The universe is finite and expanding. Just as the Bible stated thousands of years ago. To deny the existence of a Creator is an error.
So what is your point: god exists because the bible says so?
@@sound.of.science No, science says so.
Biblical Hebrew has a smaller vocabulary than English. In biblical Hebrew, there is no word for universe. Instead, the Hebrew phrase that is translated “the heavens and the earth” is used to refer to the universe-the entirety of physical reality. The phrase is used thirteen times in the Old Testament, always referring to all matter, energy, space, and time in the universe. We now know that event was 13.787 ±0.020 billion years. This has been checked, proven and measured with many tools and they all agree. It is not just space that came to be 13.787 billion years ago, but time also. The universe is finite and expanding. Just as the Bible stated thousands of years ago. To deny the existence of a Creator is an error.
The space-time theorems of the universe tell us the Casual Agent (God) that brought this universe into existence must be able to operate in more space and time dimensions. God with just one more time dimension is able to hear and understand the prayers of millions of people all at the same time. God with extra dimensions of space is able to be both one and three. We have a very hard time visualizing these extra dimensions. Mathematicians routinely stray outside our dimensions. Sometimes this work involves additional physical dimensions, such as those required by string theory.
Could you simply start with explaining why we should believe there is a god in the first place?
he basically said a perfect world with no evil will be boring, what does he think heaven is meant to be! congrats on saying it will be boring like church boring
He's sick, and anyone that believes that crap is too.
💯👍🎯
💚🐾✊💚🌎✌️💚
So won't the next after life or heaven be boring then? Especially singing praises to a powerful deity 24/7 everyday all day? 🤮
Easy. If you assume the g0d, then the g0d is assumed and you can make fancy robot videos for the g0d fans. Sigh...
Those engineers should have built a g0d detector, not robots.
I would create heaven, and put people in there. And not create anyone who cant live in heaven...
Obviously god lacked the power to create heaven?
So I understand why the apologist wouldn't like my scenario.
In the apologists mind, the earth was perfect, but mankind destroyed it.
Obviously that means mankind will eventually destroy heaven.
Which makes perfect sense.
Then the good people in heaven, will be saved, and get to go to super heaven!
"WHY WOULD GOD CREATE AN EVIL WORLD?". Why not?
Because it causes unimaginable suffering for billions of people.
Your god doesn't care about that? That is why I would reject him.
@@sound.of.science Sorry, I do not believe in telepathy. So, you do not know who my God is. And... you would utterly surprised (to the point of speechlessness) if I told you who he is. And it is not he. It is HE. 🙂
@@sound.of.science So there is a God (yours, I guess) that causes unimaginable suffering. So what? What do you know of unimaginable suffering anyway? Have YOU ever endured it? I have. And I am tired of people speaking of things they do know anything about.
Fine; do you believe in the christian god as described in the bible book?
@@sound.of.science Maybe I wish I believed in this Christian God. Presently, you can find my God by looking in YOUR mirror.
6:49 Come on, you're not being entirely fair there, he's attempting to demonstrate the implications of different designs of world. An omni-god wouldn't have to actually make it because of having already thought through the implications, but it IS necessarily for the analogy.
There are many other problems with this video.
"but it IS necessarily for the analogy."
Yes, it is necessary for the analogy to work. But if you need to insert parts that only work on one side of the anology, then the analogy is flawed.
"There are many other problems with this video."
Please give me your best example...
@sound.of.science Oh, I meant problems with the video you were RESPONDING to! It's full of holes, my favourite probably being the idea that not suffering is somehow inherently boring. I'm on your side here, I just thought this ONE objection wasn't completely fair.
Oops, sorry...
@@sound.of.science No, no, my phrasing was entirely ambiguous. My mistake.
No worries. Maybe my reading wasn't that clear....
Because he is a 🫏
God created an evil world because God IS evil.
The creators of God made him that way.
WTF no all AI is not preprogrammed to serve and do no harm and be good
what a bunch of nonsense
Would AI be more or less dangerous if it had a God belief?
@@gregsanich5183
Are people more or less dangerous with a god belief?
@lilmsgs touche'
I believe ppl are better off with a code of conduct, or set of guidelines for behavior, than not.
Its been proven that ppl act more appropriately when they believe they are going to be accountable for their actions.
@@gregsanich5183
sure...
who decides what that code of conduct should be? remember:
The theoretical physicist Steven Weinberg. It states:
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion."
@lilmsgs but that's demonstrably false. Just look at soviet Russia or maos China. Plenty of good ppl did terrible things, after the state had already kyboshed religion. So there goes that theory. The only thing you need for thst is fear.
Fact is that there is no action or behavior (no matter how vile or despicable ) that is condemned, restricted, or prohibited in any way whatsoever by athiesm. Athiesm is completely compatible with any of it. The only thing off the table would be believing that there's any higher authority that might hold us accountable for anything we do.
Please what a silly question God? as god is not a proper name way the capital G
after the word informing of a deity god?? must come the gods name /names
The visual animation is the reason I am giving this video a thumbs down. Pick something else.
It's not relevant to the content.
It's annoying.
I dont know what god he talking about this is a rotten way to begin a recital
I actually the correct words for Invoking god Odin god Odin all father of everything?
God created evil to make love sensible. Why should you love somebody, if your love makes no difference? Your loved ones never get sick. They will never get hurt. It would be a nightmare for me, if I lived in a world where my love wouldn't make the slightest difference.
I can't proof that God exists, but I axiomaticly assume that God exists.
So, then what's the point of "heaven"? If there will be no evil there, then love won't make any difference, according to your rationale. It would be a nightmare and your sensible god's love wouldn't matter.
Exactly, that would make gods love in heaven pointless, if there is no evil in heaven to experience the contrast...
"Your loved ones never get sick. They will never get hurt. It would be a nightmare fo r me"
So you desperately want your loved ones to get hurt and sick?
Then those are not your 'loved ones'.
Your loved ones are the people you desperately DON'T want to get hurt and sick.
Amazing how religion feeds insanity.
So by your own logic heaven (or paradise) is illogical because there is only happiness?
BTW love really doesn't need any evil, we can love without suffering.
@@Seticzech But love would be senseless without the possibility of evil. So even in heaven there is the possibility of doing evil, but you have to face the consequences, which are hell.
Who created evil Goonies on drugs equal god