That's what I wrote. It's coming out September 1st on Amazon. It's a fantasy adventure--the characters curse but I don't quote them. There's probably about five "bad" words in the whole thing. I would be really interested to expand this conversation about what makes something adult. I hate that so many people think it's about graphic content. I can't even say I wrote an "adult" book without feeling like I have to throw in the caveat "not porn." That's kind of sad to me. I consider my book adult because the character is in her thirties... And no insta-love! It's not super dark tho, so maybe people will still tend to see it as young adult...
PRUDE ALERT!!!!!!!!!!! LOL😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆 but seriously you probably don't need to be having people cursing like truck drivers in order to have a good adult novel but most likely there will and probably even should be at least some degree of profanity in adult novel but yet again it depends on the novel and depends on the characters your writing.
Some people don't realize cussing is a way to express emotion. It's not needed but some people prefer to use them to help express themselves. Be careful about them becoming a crutch or misinterpreting cussing as being something other than what it is.
@@mattiOTX I agree completely. What I meant in this context is that Jenna's writing comes off very YA but with cock and cunt repeated ad nauseam. Point being, adult novels are not dependent on swearing, but style and content (which may include swearing, but a whole lot of them do not).
@@anival9576 I would love to see more of this discussion too! I’m so curious now about what makes something feel “YA in a bad way.” It seems like it has to do with surface level Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters and insufficient worldbuilding? Maybe some cringy edginess? But then what makes it adult? If it’s not necessarily the adult themes then is it simply that it’s just *written better* and with more depth and realism? That is all I can conclude every time I see people bring this topic up.
@@tonyasmith1917 yeah.... I don't understand why all these YA novelist need to swear and sex so much. Not that I mind, but there is a time and place to use it, for it to be realistic. For swear words; it's a great way to amplify negative emotions such as anger, or extreme annoyance for a particular scene if used sparingly. But not if you throw a swear word out every couple of lines throughout the book. Same goes for sex. Instalove can be a thing (I guess??) but your characters don't need to be nymphomaniacs that do everything that walks on 2 legs at first sight -_-
@@stijnvdv2 So I'm not sure where all of these reviewers keep getting the impression that these books are YA, if you want Jenna's Channels, she's very specific and clear that all of her books are NEW Adult and Adult - these are not your 12 to 16 year olds still in school. These are characters who are fully adult - 18+ in their early to mid 20 somethings, new to the Adult world, but still adult. So sex, swearing, violence can be more graphic and prevalent in this case. Sorry just had to clarify this because I keep smacking my head every-time a reviewer starts with this, especially since she's stated numerous times she does not intend nor wants to write for teenagers or children, nor does she enjoy reading YA.
but the rest of your statement, yes even in Adult fiction excessive swearing and sex for the sake of swearing and sex are not necessary and don't add value to a story. And I am sooo over insta romance especially if you advertise a character as being strong and independent, then make the LIs work to get to a place of romance.
I appreciate Jenna's channel because she's hilarious and it's helped me in my writing, but I just can't get into her books. Your review exactly what I thought it would be. Well done!
I’m also in the same boat haha, she’s got good content but her books still need lots of work, but that’s okay because she’s on her own writing journey 😁
@@GreenerSideOfSam I'm happy for her since she's found an audience. I think if she had a more involved editor or even a co-writer she could have something much much better. But that's just me
@@soundsoftheheart3164 going by her attitude in her vids, she seems like the stubborn type to refuse any real criticism. I got 100 pages into Eve: The Awakening and it was painful
@@whosaidthat84 that's what I heard. People say she doesn't listen or read the reviews criticising her work... She only listens and reads the reviews that praise her books... I heard a lot of people saying that Eve was all the things she says she hates in books...
Books are an investment. I have books on my shelves that are over 10 years old and have shaped me, fundamentally, as a person and as an author. Writing a one-star review and being honest to future readers is important, especially when you have "big" authors like Jenna who come in with a massive fan-base and will automatically rate her books well even if they don't like them. The only way to turn that around is to be the "outsider". To be the person who is willing to say, "okay, yeah, this book sucks". And honestly, Jenna needs that too. She needs to see different opinions about her books and her writing so that she can grow as a writer. If she is constantly surrounded by people screaming "wow that was perfect!", you know she'll never change. So don't worry about it. Write the one-star review. Even if it seems harsh at the time, it will help others in the future.
And what i find funny is that she is all about giving writing advice. I think this even went through a bunch of professional editors and beta readers also.
It’s so hard give honest reviews that aren’t very positive. I just had to do that. I like the way you explain the writing process. I’m not a writer but, I am a reader and value the hard work that goes into writing. Great job! Subscribed 😊
Just discovered you today. I love how polite you are and thorough. More reviewers need to be this honest but kind. Totally subbed. I am an Urban Fantasy writer and one of the things I want to do is clean up how I do my writing. Hearing a fantasy reader speak about the things they like helps me a lot.
100% agree on your comment that world-building can take years to solidify. It took me a good 20 years to get the world down and the second half of that was the creating diverse cultural nuance. It’s a ton of work. It’s not as simple as “this sounds cool.” I tell my friends my book has been marinating for a long time when I give them a breakdown of the idea.
That’s awesome you’ve spent so long on world building! It just shows you take great care of your work and want it to be the best it can be. World building is so hard to do, but, especially in the fantasy genre, in many cases it has to be solidified or the reader is left just wandering around with the characters.
The thing is...some people are great on the publishing side of things, including editing, and then they're not as great about the writing side of things. It's totally possible to be good at one over the other. I've found this authors advice helpful. I don't think having a meh book makes their advice on publishing overall invalid. But it does present kind of an awkward situation for sure...
Yeah, I think Jenna's sort of... technical? understanding of writing (as a reader analysing her reading) is all right and she is a very good entertainer and presenter. It just doesn't translate to writing so easily.
I found the Savior's Champion enjoyable, albeit very predictable. The Savior's Sister was a step down. It took me much longer to get through. That being said, I'm still interested in how the story will continue in the third book
I get the sneaking suspicion that if the third book is worth reading, it would've been the second book. That is to say, I think Jenna's circling back around cause she doesn't know where she's going anymore. But then, if you enjoy watching a good train wreck.....
I don't enjoy being harsh on writers, but I'm kinda glad I did not pick up this book. I made a review on TSC saying that it was disappointing because of poor storytelling and worldbuilding which resulted in a 'Suited-Meh' (the equivalent of a 2 out of 5)
I also gave the Saviors Champion a 2 out of 5! I really don’t like it when the worldbuilding isn’t great because I’m a detail oriented person and a story like this absolutely has to have it. It lacked on so much and it’s disappointing because it had so much potential, but now it’s already out there.
@@GreenerSideOfSam 🤣 great minds, I guess. But, yeah, right down to the "apologies". My mom has been listening too and her reactions have been priceless. She's an avid reader too and has been getting angry, literal anger, at the lack of content editing ("Why? WHY?? Why this scene? It adds NOTHING!!!!")
@@GreenerSideOfSam Seriously do! It's by Nicola Yoon. What's funny is that her earlier book "Everything, Everything" does insta-love so poorly it was kind of painful, but there was a maturity about it in "The Sun is Also a Star" that made it feel so genuine. Puppy love really can change your life even if the love doesn't last, and Yoon's portrayal of it was awesome!
Great video! Your critique really makes me realize how important it is as a writer to get all the elements right. I'm about to self publish a historical novel, and I'm working on a fantasy series and your comments are really helpful. Characters, to me, are the most important thing to a story. If I don't care about the characters, then you might have an awesome world and plot but I won't read your book. Even if your plot is weak, if you have complex characters who have a challenging arc, I will engage with them and go on their journey. I really enjoy Jenna's UA-cam videos but I probably won't read her books.
I must say, I really enjoyed both TSC and TSS from a readers perspective (well, I heard the adio books). There where some things that annoyed me a little bit but it didn't ruine the fun. Also, as for dialogue, I'm not an english native speaker. I don't have understanding issues and am quite comfortable with the language but I might not get all the subtelties and undertones. Maybe that's why shifts in register or overall clunkyness weren't that apparent to me. Though I must say that I liked TSC more than TSS. For me, it came down to the plot because, just as you mentioned, it felt like it was there to fill in some blanks from TSC but nothing more. Though I don't know how you could possibly combine both books into one, as through the revelation of Leila's identity, half of the conflict in Tobias's story, which is commiting blasphemy by beeing together with Leila, would become redundant. Readers wouldn't fear with him any more and he would just look stupid. But back to TSS. Another point was that I couldn't tell all the senators apart and once I got a glimpse at their character, Leila killed them off just like that. Her frequent slaughtering was also something that made her less sympathetic in comparison to the "healer girl" from the first book, in my opinion. Than there was Brontes. A character that didn't have much depth in TSC because we only had Tobias's restricted view and knowledge but that didn't improve in TSS. All I learned about him is that he likes to insult and threaten his daughter but we don't get a hint as to what his deeper motives are. He's just evil and therefore wants to conquer the world. That's a little flat. I just watched the character presentation of TSS over on Jenna's channel and even the few words she said about him shed more light on his personality than the entire novel. Told in the perspective of his *daughter* one of the people who should know him best since she is so desperately trying not to be like him. And that's just sad. And I didn't really buy Leila's hesitation to tell Tobias the truth about her identity. The whole "But-you-said-you-don't-like-the-Savior"-thing just repeated itself until I couldn't believe it any more and I wanted to shout: "Girl! Get it over with! That man f****n loves you!" I could go on like this but I won't because that would be some looooong list. But those were basically the things that I just decided to put up with because I actually really liked the theme of the story and I think Tobias is a nice guy. I'm still looking foreward to the third book. Its gonna have some new challenges for the characters, a new plot and new surroundings. Something fresh, hopefully. Also, they will be travelling a lot which will (hopefully) result in some more in-depth world building. With that being said, a final statement: It's definetly not the best story I ever came across but I still don't think that it's crap and am still in sufficiantly high spirits to give TSA a valid chance.
I really liked TSC but I didn't really know how I felt about this one tbh...Brontes was kind of cartoonish and the whole "this is just the way it has to be she can't just get rid of him" plot started to feel very annoying. I also really felt weird about Cosima and how she was written; it felt like I was being told/forced to hate her more as the book went on but I just refused lol, culminating in that one scene where Leila hides in the cupboard (if ya know ya know). Like Cosima is not a villain she is a victim, justice for Cosima. I just felt some type of way about all that. And I agree about some of the side characters feeling flat and just there, particularly the maids. I had trouble remembering who was who with the women outside of Delphi, Pippa and Cosima (which made some later mystery reveals feel very flat because I was like "oh...it's you. This person. How could you do that to Leila, this person?")
Do you happen to have any resources (of yours or others') that help explain how to make main characters more well-rounded? I really appreciate your honesty and professionalism in these videos! I ask specifically about flat characters because I find this really fascinating-Terry Pratchet talked about how it was better to take some kind of archetype and use it to define each character since it's so hard to simulate more complexity upfront. So, what do we do? Take the archetype route and add little interesting mannerisms, peculiarities, character growth points etc. and make that the compromise between the two approaches? Also, I don't suppose you're available for beta-reading?
I’m still trying to wrap my mind around it. I think on some level it can be easier for people to teach rather than translate it on the page. With that being said I’m really surprised a lot of these things weren’t fixed.
@@GreenerSideOfSam she says to invest the money for a professional editor. Did she not get one, or did they do this bad of a job? I think her biggest issue is ego. As she has gotten more popular, she seems to have gotten too full of herself. She thinks if she's done it, it's perfect.
@@thomasswafford250 yeah it definitely doesn’t read like a professional editor was hired, maybe one for grammar, but I feel like a developmental editor would’ve had a ton to say about this. It honestly read like it maybe it went through a couple edits, but big books like these need A LOT of edits because everything has to fit together. I really wish she would’ve taken more time on this. It’s sad because it could’ve been so much better, but now it’s already out there.
It's crazy! Just shows how intricate of a craft writing is. Part of it too is that she posts lots of extratextual stuff on her social media, like character bios and Thessen's history, so fans can get context before diving in.
@@whosaidthat84 I really wish more of that context would’ve been in the book. Writing is definitely so complex. I look at George R R Martins ratings and it took him a good 15 years to get most of his books in that 4 star rating range. Writing is a journey and it takes so much time to improve it. If I would’ve read this when I was 15-16 I probably wouldn’t have been able to point out what I did in this video.
Nice review! It was informative without being spoilery. And you came across very nice and you pointed out good things I can learn from as a writer, so thanks for that! Lol leaf peeping XD
This was a great review. Honest and unboased. This is why as an author I'm hesitant to just use a street team for arc reviews but look into using those arc review service websites like fussy librarian and net galley.
I have read TSC, and it was alright, I suppose. Im not the target audience for this book series. I'm asexual, and almost aromantic. A story about some shirtless dudes running around and killing each other and the main character falls in love and stuff...it's just not for me. For my reading preferences the premise on its own was quite shallow. I need a bit more thoughtfulness and depth in a story to stick around. That said, I understand the commercial appeal that she's going for, and I'm glad it's working for Jenna. It's sad that this new book didn't improve upon what she had. Subscribed.
Thanks for subscribing! I really appreciate it. 😁 I don’t mind romance, but I just wish it was done better. I like when romance is more subtle and it’s not just instant love at first sight. I also, thought it was sad it didn’t improve either. I was really hoping that the writer would’ve taken the criticism from the last book and built on it.
Something didn't sit right with me about her channel, but people kept telling me to give it a chance. I keep going to watch stuff. But my impression is turning out to be correct. 😔 Sighs. I want to like her. I am trying not to bash on her here. I feel like her insecurities came out a lot (like what are you trying to hide) and it's like she's on attack mode. I feel like I guess the best example is in a relationship when the partner your with is constantly accusing you of cheating. When you are loyal and then find out they were cheating. Oh damn... Projecting! That's the word. "Things I hate" btw I'm guilty of blank. Mary Sue would be correct. I saw that book cover in the corner and looked at her and thought that the moment I saw it. But I let it go. I don't actually hate Mary Sue characters. Because, honestly, I've read some damn good ones. I don't like how Mary Sue is the- excuse my language f*** all term for bad character. In fact most of my favorite books growing up have author inserts in them. And they're all written by males. It's only become a problem in recent history because when women tried to do the same thing for some reason, we're attacking ourselves over it. It's like deep down in our biology we have this need to compete and tear each other down and I don't like it. Why are we giving men the pass to do things like that but we're not letting ourselves have our self-indulgent world building and storytelling. There's a lot of really cool power fantasies out there that men have created. Why can't women just be happy that we're creating our own? And instead of feeling threatened by a character step inside that character shoes and just enjoy the world as if you're in it. Why is it that we have to tear each other down? I think the problem I have is that I'm tired of everyone saying this or that, criticizing writers disrespectfully, when it's actually really damn hard to write a book. Usually the ones that I see criticizing writers the most are people that won't write or haven't tried writing, or hiding insecurities, are suffering from imposter syndrome, or are lashing out because of one reason or the other. Even like big names make mistakes like JJ Abrams. Hell it's like he gets bored and he has project ADD, he writes good stuff but then I don't know what happens towards the end of his things. The community is hooked on criticism of writing tropes, cliches, etc... When a lot of what is hated on or criticized is actually really popular like chosen one. I feel like more authors need to go about their channels more in the "in my opinion" instead of trying to pass things off as law. I think what's happened here, because we've become over critical in society we have effectively made ourselves jaded and we're losing our ability to just have fun with the process, or even reading excellent or terrible books. Hell when I was a kid I read tons of awful books but I still enjoyed every single one of them. I could sit there and go on about how with The wheel of Time series one of my favorite series, had problems where he rambled on the world building but the thing is I actually liked that. A lot of people would say that he was trying to beef his word count, or that he would bore them, but I just took my time and let my brain check out and I just enjoyed the ride. I really miss that. Sorry for my rambling I guess what I'm trying to say here is that while I've got things that bother me too when it comes to writing and books and media, is I'm finding it incredibly hard to criticize others because I myself know I'm probably not that good, that I'll make mistakes, even ones I don't like in others. And I think what it comes down to is I realize I'm human, I'm imperfect. I look at her and she's human, and she's imperfect and I'm just happy that she's doing what she likes doing. I like how your view is very respectful thank you. ♥️ It's refreshing to see a review be objective and professional.
I'm subscribed to her youtube channel. The book doesn't seem like something I'd read. But her advice on writing is very helpful. I'm more of a Hellboy and Trese fan.
The issues discussed here highlight the problems that can occur with self-published novels. There’s no series of agents and editors nit-picking the plot, character development, dialogue, and other quality control issues. And while a freelance editor can help, nothing compels the author to implement the suggested revisions if she’s not competing with countless other writers for a picky editor’s favor to make the sale because she knows she’s going to just self publish anyway. Which is better? Total artistic freedom or knowing your work was good enough to make it through all the frustrating rounds of checks and balances of traditional publishing? Sort of like peer review…I’d take the credibility of the latter any day.
True but I've read traditionally pubisb books that are just as bad. Neither route guarantees quality, self publishing gets a bad rap because any one can do it so the average self published book is worse than the average traditionally published book. To me it's all about artistic integrity and honesty with yourself/accepting criticism.
Meh, I don't want to lose the rights to my story. I'll make the money to get it polished because I'm going to care about my story far more than someone looking at it from a profit point of view.
I think for me I fear while I'm passionate about my characters and world. I'm scared my writing will suck. So if I start gaining traction I don't feel like I'd be reliable enough to offer advice. I think I'll steer away from that as much as possible.
I read TSC because I liked watching Jenna's videos. I read *a lot* of paranormal romance and I'm not picky about my books. I enjoy YA and clichée love tropes and I did not enjoy TSC and after your (very good and well worded) review know for sure I'm not gonna waste my time on TSS. For me (and many other readers according to youtube comment sections) the worldbuilding and characters were too flat. I like me some magic systems and lore. It doesn't have much here and imo twilight has more worldbuilding and lore than TSC. Also I don't mind swearing/foul language in the right context but it was overused. Also there are better, more pleasing ways to describe a man's private parts. I like some variation in dirty talk. Especially in books xD Why do I always think of a male chicken whenever TSC comes up?
I can see it pained you to give a bad review. That is a good change from many critics who seem to revel in it. Was there an indication the characters were speaking different deending on circumstance; a court voice and an everyday voice?
The only thing i needed from this book that wasn't in the Saviours Champion was the Sovereigns motivation for killing the Saviour, and im still mixed on it, he doesn't seem to believe in her magic and wants all the power for himself to take over a country that we knoe virtually nothing about. I think the poor worldbuilding meant his "grand plan" didnt have the punch it was meant to.
Coming off Leila from TSC, i can see how you could have that opinion of her but I think you missed how she actually did have that depth that was explained at the beginning of the book. She finds out at a young age about her dad killing her mom and wanting her dead. She was raised being treated like a queen while knowing she was a target of her own father. She puts on that bratty nature in the meetings but the senators are always easier to attack than her dad. She can be justified in killing them knowing they are working toward her death but when her father attacks her, its her father. There's that emotion that is more damning than a normal treason of state and it made sense for her to hate him so much but still be affected by that.
Maybe it's just not that well connected together. Putting things together because they were made to go together and putting them together because they actually showed how they fit is something I started to realize as I dove more into books throughout my many years.
Thank you so much! I’m so glad that people like my honest reviews and I’m flattered that I’m getting requests to read people’s books. 😁 I’m beta reading right now and with my videos, a little one, I’m just not sure when I would be able to get to it. I wish I had all the time in the world to critique for everyone because I really appreciate that people love to hear my opinion 😅😁 I’ll make a note though for sure for when I’m done beta reading this book! 😁 I’d like to try and help when I can!
@@GreenerSideOfSam I totally understand! I'm in no hurry, so if you do find the time, I'd love to hear from you. If you want a short blurb or something let me know. I'd also return the favor! I know how hard it is to find readers who will find the time to give you critique! :)
At least the good thing is that they actually got this book in my local library so if I actually really wanted to check out this alleged dumpster fire of a book I can so without even paying for it.
@@GreenerSideOfSam Okay. I'm not quite ready. Still doing first draft, but when I'm ready, I'll definitely let you know. I'm trying to build up my ARC list for when the time comes.
YA Fantasy romance....Strongly disagree with that label. But, I guess the other stuff is subjective. Personally, I enjoyed both TSC and TSS. I like Tobias and Leila.
FYI - What makes something YA is the age of the protagonist, not whether or not the dialogue is stilted and insta-love is present. Pretty sure you’re insulting YA writers with that assessment. Other than that, great review. Thanks.
No that's not how YA works. YA is mostly a phrase used in marketing, it is not about the age of the character. It is more complex then that and books can shift between being marketed as YA or adult in different geographic locations and with time, as the trends change. (Like Sandersons mistborn books did, for example). There are a lot of protagonists that are children in adult fiction (I would NOT call "Lolita" a book for teens hahaha. especially not during the time when it was first published. It is adressed directly toward adults and their view of young girls.) However, there are a few thing that is characteristic of YA and how publishers and distributors treat it. Generally, the audience is expected to be younger (YOUNG adult), so the language matches that. I.e. the language is not as developed. Objectively, Morecis books lack a lot of the language and writing tools that other authors, writing for adults tend to use. She does not use free indirect discourse, she does not use tense creatively or perspective. She does not set scenes and aah I could go on. However, not setting scenes does not make the text "younger", but usling a less developed narrative DOES (A younger reader is not expected to keep track of as much information as adults, and their concentrationspan is expected to be shorter and their education is not expected to be on post. uni. level yet.). That is a marker of reading comprehension, and you know people measure that. But the reading comprehension index of Mopreci book is objectively low. And that is sort of BAD for YA and indie publishing. If Moreci would have spent more time developing her manuscript, then that would have been good for indie-writers as a whole, because their reputaion would have gone up. But, as it stands, the trope of calling indie-publishers books underdeveloped still rings true as far as she is concerned. This is bad for everyone. Another thing that is very important for marketing is the psychology of the book, themes, characters. This is, apart from the language and narrative, the main thing that makes this book YA and not adult. The psychology is not on the level expected in adult fiction.
For any aspiring writers out there: swearing up a storm doesn't make your book adult. You can have an adult book with no swearing if you like!
That's what I wrote. It's coming out September 1st on Amazon. It's a fantasy adventure--the characters curse but I don't quote them. There's probably about five "bad" words in the whole thing.
I would be really interested to expand this conversation about what makes something adult. I hate that so many people think it's about graphic content. I can't even say I wrote an "adult" book without feeling like I have to throw in the caveat "not porn." That's kind of sad to me. I consider my book adult because the character is in her thirties... And no insta-love! It's not super dark tho, so maybe people will still tend to see it as young adult...
PRUDE ALERT!!!!!!!!!!! LOL😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆 but seriously you probably don't need to be having people cursing like truck drivers in order to have a good adult novel but most likely there will and probably even should be at least some degree of profanity in adult novel but yet again it depends on the novel and depends on the characters your writing.
Some people don't realize cussing is a way to express emotion. It's not needed but some people prefer to use them to help express themselves. Be careful about them becoming a crutch or misinterpreting cussing as being something other than what it is.
@@mattiOTX I agree completely. What I meant in this context is that Jenna's writing comes off very YA but with cock and cunt repeated ad nauseam. Point being, adult novels are not dependent on swearing, but style and content (which may include swearing, but a whole lot of them do not).
@@anival9576 I would love to see more of this discussion too! I’m so curious now about what makes something feel “YA in a bad way.” It seems like it has to do with surface level Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters and insufficient worldbuilding? Maybe some cringy edginess? But then what makes it adult? If it’s not necessarily the adult themes then is it simply that it’s just *written better* and with more depth and realism? That is all I can conclude every time I see people bring this topic up.
This is the nicest, negative criticism I have heard to date. I wish I could be that polite.
aww thank you! I appreciate the kind comment :)
@@GreenerSideOfSam Dear...It's true-Trust!
@@tonyasmith1917 yeah.... I don't understand why all these YA novelist need to swear and sex so much. Not that I mind, but there is a time and place to use it, for it to be realistic. For swear words; it's a great way to amplify negative emotions such as anger, or extreme annoyance for a particular scene if used sparingly. But not if you throw a swear word out every couple of lines throughout the book. Same goes for sex. Instalove can be a thing (I guess??) but your characters don't need to be nymphomaniacs that do everything that walks on 2 legs at first sight -_-
@@stijnvdv2 So I'm not sure where all of these reviewers keep getting the impression that these books are YA, if you want Jenna's Channels, she's very specific and clear that all of her books are NEW Adult and Adult - these are not your 12 to 16 year olds still in school. These are characters who are fully adult - 18+ in their early to mid 20 somethings, new to the Adult world, but still adult. So sex, swearing, violence can be more graphic and prevalent in this case. Sorry just had to clarify this because I keep smacking my head every-time a reviewer starts with this, especially since she's stated numerous times she does not intend nor wants to write for teenagers or children, nor does she enjoy reading YA.
but the rest of your statement, yes even in Adult fiction excessive swearing and sex for the sake of swearing and sex are not necessary and don't add value to a story. And I am sooo over insta romance especially if you advertise a character as being strong and independent, then make the LIs work to get to a place of romance.
I appreciate Jenna's channel because she's hilarious and it's helped me in my writing, but I just can't get into her books. Your review exactly what I thought it would be. Well done!
I’m also in the same boat haha, she’s got good content but her books still need lots of work, but that’s okay because she’s on her own writing journey 😁
@@GreenerSideOfSam I'm happy for her since she's found an audience. I think if she had a more involved editor or even a co-writer she could have something much much better. But that's just me
Her channel has interesting videos and she's very funny... But I too can't get into her books. I read TSC and I wasn't that impressed
@@soundsoftheheart3164 going by her attitude in her vids, she seems like the stubborn type to refuse any real criticism. I got 100 pages into Eve: The Awakening and it was painful
@@whosaidthat84 that's what I heard. People say she doesn't listen or read the reviews criticising her work... She only listens and reads the reviews that praise her books... I heard a lot of people saying that Eve was all the things she says she hates in books...
Books are an investment. I have books on my shelves that are over 10 years old and have shaped me, fundamentally, as a person and as an author. Writing a one-star review and being honest to future readers is important, especially when you have "big" authors like Jenna who come in with a massive fan-base and will automatically rate her books well even if they don't like them. The only way to turn that around is to be the "outsider". To be the person who is willing to say, "okay, yeah, this book sucks". And honestly, Jenna needs that too. She needs to see different opinions about her books and her writing so that she can grow as a writer. If she is constantly surrounded by people screaming "wow that was perfect!", you know she'll never change. So don't worry about it. Write the one-star review. Even if it seems harsh at the time, it will help others in the future.
If you are on the fence about buying this book. Stay there.
550 + pages with barely two plot deviations from beginning to end. Yeah. I wished I'd stayed on the fence.
@@maxlawson1187 oh wow that is a chonker of a book. If there's a whole load of nothing then what are the things written inside? O.o
lmfao this made me cackle
Appreciate the heck out of this review. After a year of Jenna videos, reading her book made me... sad.
Did you read the first one or the second one?
Same!!! I first watched her videos and I love her because she's funny! But her books fell flat for me
And what i find funny is that she is all about giving writing advice. I think this even went through a bunch of professional editors and beta readers also.
It’s so hard give honest reviews that aren’t very positive. I just had to do that. I like the way you explain the writing process. I’m not a writer but, I am a reader and value the hard work that goes into writing. Great job! Subscribed 😊
Oh thanks so much! 😁 yes! Definitely a hard thing to do!
I also subscribed back! 😁
TheGreenerSideOfSam I hate it 😢
TheGreenerSideOfSam Thank you so much!!
Just discovered you today. I love how polite you are and thorough. More reviewers need to be this honest but kind. Totally subbed. I am an Urban Fantasy writer and one of the things I want to do is clean up how I do my writing. Hearing a fantasy reader speak about the things they like helps me a lot.
So glad you liked the video! 😁
100% agree on your comment that world-building can take years to solidify. It took me a good 20 years to get the world down and the second half of that was the creating diverse cultural nuance. It’s a ton of work. It’s not as simple as “this sounds cool.” I tell my friends my book has been marinating for a long time when I give them a breakdown of the idea.
That’s awesome you’ve spent so long on world building! It just shows you take great care of your work and want it to be the best it can be. World building is so hard to do, but, especially in the fantasy genre, in many cases it has to be solidified or the reader is left just wandering around with the characters.
With all due respect you have world building disease. Just write the book my friend. 20 years is too long. 😮
The thing is...some people are great on the publishing side of things, including editing, and then they're not as great about the writing side of things. It's totally possible to be good at one over the other. I've found this authors advice helpful. I don't think having a meh book makes their advice on publishing overall invalid. But it does present kind of an awkward situation for sure...
Yeah, I think Jenna's sort of... technical? understanding of writing (as a reader analysing her reading) is all right and she is a very good entertainer and presenter. It just doesn't translate to writing so easily.
I found the Savior's Champion enjoyable, albeit very predictable. The Savior's Sister was a step down. It took me much longer to get through. That being said, I'm still interested in how the story will continue in the third book
I get the sneaking suspicion that if the third book is worth reading, it would've been the second book. That is to say, I think Jenna's circling back around cause she doesn't know where she's going anymore.
But then, if you enjoy watching a good train wreck.....
I don't enjoy being harsh on writers, but I'm kinda glad I did not pick up this book. I made a review on TSC saying that it was disappointing because of poor storytelling and worldbuilding which resulted in a 'Suited-Meh' (the equivalent of a 2 out of 5)
I also gave the Saviors Champion a 2 out of 5! I really don’t like it when the worldbuilding isn’t great because I’m a detail oriented person and a story like this absolutely has to have it. It lacked on so much and it’s disappointing because it had so much potential, but now it’s already out there.
The way you go about reviewing a book that you gave one star is really respectful. I'd hope to eventually be able to review books with tact like you.
I love your *My Neighbor Totoro* shirt! Studio Ghibli is the best.
I recently rewatched Spartacus and am listening to the saviors champion... it reads like Spartacus fanfic
Yes! That’s exactly what I thought when I was reading it!
@@GreenerSideOfSam 🤣 great minds, I guess. But, yeah, right down to the "apologies". My mom has been listening too and her reactions have been priceless. She's an avid reader too and has been getting angry, literal anger, at the lack of content editing ("Why? WHY?? Why this scene? It adds NOTHING!!!!")
@@r.leighmorgan I really feel for your mom 🤣 so many time I wanted to throw the book across the room hahaha
The only book that I think does insta-love well is "The Sun is Also a Star."
I’ll have to check it out! 😁
@@GreenerSideOfSam Seriously do! It's by Nicola Yoon. What's funny is that her earlier book "Everything, Everything" does insta-love so poorly it was kind of painful, but there was a maturity about it in "The Sun is Also a Star" that made it feel so genuine. Puppy love really can change your life even if the love doesn't last, and Yoon's portrayal of it was awesome!
Great video! Your critique really makes me realize how important it is as a writer to get all the elements right. I'm about to self publish a historical novel, and I'm working on a fantasy series and your comments are really helpful. Characters, to me, are the most important thing to a story. If I don't care about the characters, then you might have an awesome world and plot but I won't read your book. Even if your plot is weak, if you have complex characters who have a challenging arc, I will engage with them and go on their journey. I really enjoy Jenna's UA-cam videos but I probably won't read her books.
TSS book in a nutshell: Hai I’m Ebony Darkness Dementia Way and I’m goth.
I agree that its a lot easier to write side characters with clear personalities.
I must say, I really enjoyed both TSC and TSS from a readers perspective (well, I heard the adio books). There where some things that annoyed me a little bit but it didn't ruine the fun. Also, as for dialogue, I'm not an english native speaker. I don't have understanding issues and am quite comfortable with the language but I might not get all the subtelties and undertones. Maybe that's why shifts in register or overall clunkyness weren't that apparent to me. Though I must say that I liked TSC more than TSS. For me, it came down to the plot because, just as you mentioned, it felt like it was there to fill in some blanks from TSC but nothing more. Though I don't know how you could possibly combine both books into one, as through the revelation of Leila's identity, half of the conflict in Tobias's story, which is commiting blasphemy by beeing together with Leila, would become redundant. Readers wouldn't fear with him any more and he would just look stupid.
But back to TSS.
Another point was that I couldn't tell all the senators apart and once I got a glimpse at their character, Leila killed them off just like that. Her frequent slaughtering was also something that made her less sympathetic in comparison to the "healer girl" from the first book, in my opinion.
Than there was Brontes. A character that didn't have much depth in TSC because we only had Tobias's restricted view and knowledge but that didn't improve in TSS. All I learned about him is that he likes to insult and threaten his daughter but we don't get a hint as to what his deeper motives are. He's just evil and therefore wants to conquer the world. That's a little flat. I just watched the character presentation of TSS over on Jenna's channel and even the few words she said about him shed more light on his personality than the entire novel. Told in the perspective of his *daughter* one of the people who should know him best since she is so desperately trying not to be like him. And that's just sad.
And I didn't really buy Leila's hesitation to tell Tobias the truth about her identity. The whole "But-you-said-you-don't-like-the-Savior"-thing just repeated itself until I couldn't believe it any more and I wanted to shout: "Girl! Get it over with! That man f****n loves you!"
I could go on like this but I won't because that would be some looooong list.
But those were basically the things that I just decided to put up with because I actually really liked the theme of the story and I think Tobias is a nice guy.
I'm still looking foreward to the third book. Its gonna have some new challenges for the characters, a new plot and new surroundings. Something fresh, hopefully. Also, they will be travelling a lot which will (hopefully) result in some more in-depth world building.
With that being said, a final statement: It's definetly not the best story I ever came across but I still don't think that it's crap and am still in sufficiantly high spirits to give TSA a valid chance.
I really liked TSC but I didn't really know how I felt about this one tbh...Brontes was kind of cartoonish and the whole "this is just the way it has to be she can't just get rid of him" plot started to feel very annoying. I also really felt weird about Cosima and how she was written; it felt like I was being told/forced to hate her more as the book went on but I just refused lol, culminating in that one scene where Leila hides in the cupboard (if ya know ya know). Like Cosima is not a villain she is a victim, justice for Cosima. I just felt some type of way about all that. And I agree about some of the side characters feeling flat and just there, particularly the maids. I had trouble remembering who was who with the women outside of Delphi, Pippa and Cosima (which made some later mystery reveals feel very flat because I was like "oh...it's you. This person. How could you do that to Leila, this person?")
Tagline for this book: the struggle didn't make sense
Absolutely! I read through it like, "Oh...that was convenient."
Do you happen to have any resources (of yours or others') that help explain how to make main characters more well-rounded? I really appreciate your honesty and professionalism in these videos!
I ask specifically about flat characters because I find this really fascinating-Terry Pratchet talked about how it was better to take some kind of archetype and use it to define each character since it's so hard to simulate more complexity upfront. So, what do we do? Take the archetype route and add little interesting mannerisms, peculiarities, character growth points etc. and make that the compromise between the two approaches?
Also, I don't suppose you're available for beta-reading?
It should be the next video I did right after this one! 😁
@@GreenerSideOfSam Wow, fast reply. Much appreciated!
Love these book reviews. You have such a respectful tone. Keep it up please!
Considering that this writer gives writing advice, how did she put this out?
I’m still trying to wrap my mind around it. I think on some level it can be easier for people to teach rather than translate it on the page. With that being said I’m really surprised a lot of these things weren’t fixed.
@@GreenerSideOfSam she says to invest the money for a professional editor. Did she not get one, or did they do this bad of a job? I think her biggest issue is ego. As she has gotten more popular, she seems to have gotten too full of herself. She thinks if she's done it, it's perfect.
@@thomasswafford250 yeah it definitely doesn’t read like a professional editor was hired, maybe one for grammar, but I feel like a developmental editor would’ve had a ton to say about this. It honestly read like it maybe it went through a couple edits, but big books like these need A LOT of edits because everything has to fit together. I really wish she would’ve taken more time on this. It’s sad because it could’ve been so much better, but now it’s already out there.
It's crazy! Just shows how intricate of a craft writing is. Part of it too is that she posts lots of extratextual stuff on her social media, like character bios and Thessen's history, so fans can get context before diving in.
@@whosaidthat84 I really wish more of that context would’ve been in the book. Writing is definitely so complex. I look at George R R Martins ratings and it took him a good 15 years to get most of his books in that 4 star rating range. Writing is a journey and it takes so much time to improve it. If I would’ve read this when I was 15-16 I probably wouldn’t have been able to point out what I did in this video.
you are so kind, even when talking about a book that isn't the best lol
3:46 Got it. You won't need to worry yourself with my book, Sam. I will not fail to add certain elephants in it✨💯
Nice review! It was informative without being spoilery. And you came across very nice and you pointed out good things I can learn from as a writer, so thanks for that!
Lol leaf peeping XD
Lol I still can’t believe leaf peeping is a thing 😩🍁 most of us like to call it fall 🤣
@@GreenerSideOfSam why would they peep on leaves?!
I decided to subscribe. :) Love your honesty in your book reviews, and your overall energy is great.
This was a great review. Honest and unboased. This is why as an author I'm hesitant to just use a street team for arc reviews but look into using those arc review service websites like fussy librarian and net galley.
I have read TSC, and it was alright, I suppose. Im not the target audience for this book series. I'm asexual, and almost aromantic. A story about some shirtless dudes running around and killing each other and the main character falls in love and stuff...it's just not for me. For my reading preferences the premise on its own was quite shallow. I need a bit more thoughtfulness and depth in a story to stick around.
That said, I understand the commercial appeal that she's going for, and I'm glad it's working for Jenna. It's sad that this new book didn't improve upon what she had.
Subscribed.
Thanks for subscribing! I really appreciate it. 😁 I don’t mind romance, but I just wish it was done better. I like when romance is more subtle and it’s not just instant love at first sight. I also, thought it was sad it didn’t improve either. I was really hoping that the writer would’ve taken the criticism from the last book and built on it.
I love the Shinning
Totally agree. Fun read. Totally feels YA. Not dark fantasy. Needed more inner turmoil. Major plot hole at the end.
Something didn't sit right with me about her channel, but people kept telling me to give it a chance. I keep going to watch stuff. But my impression is turning out to be correct. 😔 Sighs. I want to like her. I am trying not to bash on her here. I feel like her insecurities came out a lot (like what are you trying to hide) and it's like she's on attack mode. I feel like I guess the best example is in a relationship when the partner your with is constantly accusing you of cheating. When you are loyal and then find out they were cheating. Oh damn... Projecting! That's the word. "Things I hate" btw I'm guilty of blank. Mary Sue would be correct. I saw that book cover in the corner and looked at her and thought that the moment I saw it. But I let it go. I don't actually hate Mary Sue characters. Because, honestly, I've read some damn good ones. I don't like how Mary Sue is the- excuse my language f*** all term for bad character. In fact most of my favorite books growing up have author inserts in them. And they're all written by males. It's only become a problem in recent history because when women tried to do the same thing for some reason, we're attacking ourselves over it. It's like deep down in our biology we have this need to compete and tear each other down and I don't like it. Why are we giving men the pass to do things like that but we're not letting ourselves have our self-indulgent world building and storytelling. There's a lot of really cool power fantasies out there that men have created. Why can't women just be happy that we're creating our own? And instead of feeling threatened by a character step inside that character shoes and just enjoy the world as if you're in it. Why is it that we have to tear each other down? I think the problem I have is that I'm tired of everyone saying this or that, criticizing writers disrespectfully, when it's actually really damn hard to write a book. Usually the ones that I see criticizing writers the most are people that won't write or haven't tried writing, or hiding insecurities, are suffering from imposter syndrome, or are lashing out because of one reason or the other. Even like big names make mistakes like JJ Abrams. Hell it's like he gets bored and he has project ADD, he writes good stuff but then I don't know what happens towards the end of his things. The community is hooked on criticism of writing tropes, cliches, etc... When a lot of what is hated on or criticized is actually really popular like chosen one. I feel like more authors need to go about their channels more in the "in my opinion" instead of trying to pass things off as law. I think what's happened here, because we've become over critical in society we have effectively made ourselves jaded and we're losing our ability to just have fun with the process, or even reading excellent or terrible books. Hell when I was a kid I read tons of awful books but I still enjoyed every single one of them. I could sit there and go on about how with The wheel of Time series one of my favorite series, had problems where he rambled on the world building but the thing is I actually liked that. A lot of people would say that he was trying to beef his word count, or that he would bore them, but I just took my time and let my brain check out and I just enjoyed the ride. I really miss that. Sorry for my rambling I guess what I'm trying to say here is that while I've got things that bother me too when it comes to writing and books and media, is I'm finding it incredibly hard to criticize others because I myself know I'm probably not that good, that I'll make mistakes, even ones I don't like in others. And I think what it comes down to is I realize I'm human, I'm imperfect. I look at her and she's human, and she's imperfect and I'm just happy that she's doing what she likes doing. I like how your view is very respectful thank you. ♥️ It's refreshing to see a review be objective and professional.
I love this review... I love Jenna, but her books disappointed me😭
I'm subscribed to her youtube channel. The book doesn't seem like something I'd read. But her advice on writing is very helpful. I'm more of a Hellboy and Trese fan.
The issues discussed here highlight the problems that can occur with self-published novels. There’s no series of agents and editors nit-picking the plot, character development, dialogue, and other quality control issues. And while a freelance editor can help, nothing compels the author to implement the suggested revisions if she’s not competing with countless other writers for a picky editor’s favor to make the sale because she knows she’s going to just self publish anyway. Which is better? Total artistic freedom or knowing your work was good enough to make it through all the frustrating rounds of checks and balances of traditional publishing? Sort of like peer review…I’d take the credibility of the latter any day.
True but I've read traditionally pubisb books that are just as bad. Neither route guarantees quality, self publishing gets a bad rap because any one can do it so the average self published book is worse than the average traditionally published book. To me it's all about artistic integrity and honesty with yourself/accepting criticism.
@@devinkipp4344 ^^ agreed
Meh, I don't want to lose the rights to my story. I'll make the money to get it polished because I'm going to care about my story far more than someone looking at it from a profit point of view.
I guess Jenna's a better teacher and blogger than writer, lol!
I think for me I fear while I'm passionate about my characters and world. I'm scared my writing will suck. So if I start gaining traction I don't feel like I'd be reliable enough to offer advice. I think I'll steer away from that as much as possible.
How do you choose which books you're going to read and review?
Oh snap. Just started
I read TSC because I liked watching Jenna's videos. I read *a lot* of paranormal romance and I'm not picky about my books. I enjoy YA and clichée love tropes and I did not enjoy TSC and after your (very good and well worded) review know for sure I'm not gonna waste my time on TSS.
For me (and many other readers according to youtube comment sections) the worldbuilding and characters were too flat.
I like me some magic systems and lore. It doesn't have much here and imo twilight has more worldbuilding and lore than TSC.
Also I don't mind swearing/foul language in the right context but it was overused.
Also there are better, more pleasing ways to describe a man's private parts. I like some variation in dirty talk. Especially in books xD
Why do I always think of a male chicken whenever TSC comes up?
Did you find out the answer?
I can see it pained you to give a bad review. That is a good change from many critics who seem to revel in it. Was there an indication the characters were speaking different deending on circumstance; a court voice and an everyday voice?
The only thing i needed from this book that wasn't in the Saviours Champion was the Sovereigns motivation for killing the Saviour, and im still mixed on it, he doesn't seem to believe in her magic and wants all the power for himself to take over a country that we knoe virtually nothing about.
I think the poor worldbuilding meant his "grand plan" didnt have the punch it was meant to.
I didn't like The Saviors Sister as much as TSC. It was way too redundant. I agree that the two should have been one book.
Coming off Leila from TSC, i can see how you could have that opinion of her but I think you missed how she actually did have that depth that was explained at the beginning of the book. She finds out at a young age about her dad killing her mom and wanting her dead. She was raised being treated like a queen while knowing she was a target of her own father. She puts on that bratty nature in the meetings but the senators are always easier to attack than her dad. She can be justified in killing them knowing they are working toward her death but when her father attacks her, its her father. There's that emotion that is more damning than a normal treason of state and it made sense for her to hate him so much but still be affected by that.
Maybe it's just not that well connected together. Putting things together because they were made to go together and putting them together because they actually showed how they fit is something I started to realize as I dove more into books throughout my many years.
Your sound is a little quiet in the video.
Who's here from goodreads?
TSS felt like someone else wrote it. It’s crap compared to TSC
Absolutely! I was expecting so much more with the writing! 😬
TheGreenerSideOfSam I’m still shocked that it feels like someone else wrote this book.
OMG! I LOVE your honesty! Do you know how hard that is to come by? Looking for alpha readers, if you'd be interested! haha
Thank you so much! I’m so glad that people like my honest reviews and I’m flattered that I’m getting requests to read people’s books. 😁 I’m beta reading right now and with my videos, a little one, I’m just not sure when I would be able to get to it. I wish I had all the time in the world to critique for everyone because I really appreciate that people love to hear my opinion 😅😁 I’ll make a note though for sure for when I’m done beta reading this book! 😁 I’d like to try and help when I can!
@@GreenerSideOfSam I totally understand! I'm in no hurry, so if you do find the time, I'd love to hear from you. If you want a short blurb or something let me know.
I'd also return the favor! I know how hard it is to find readers who will find the time to give you critique! :)
At least the good thing is that they actually got this book in my local library so if I actually really wanted to check out this alleged dumpster fire of a book I can so without even paying for it.
Kids and young people swear and use all the "cool" words more than anyone. We humans are a strange bunch how we imagine real life to be.
I think this book also went through a bunch of professional editors to.
Can I send you my book.😁 Liked your video, subscribed
Thanks for subscribing! I’m thinking about maybe getting a PO Box in the near future because I’m starting to have a few people ask me this! 😁
@@GreenerSideOfSam I would like to look into sending an ARC to you as well. I'm hoping to have ARC's by maybe May.
I was going to ask the same question. At least, for when the time comes.
@@oddeyes9413 yes you can! 😁 I’ve got MrVlandus’s book too in my TBR list right now.
@@GreenerSideOfSam Okay. I'm not quite ready. Still doing first draft, but when I'm ready, I'll definitely let you know. I'm trying to build up my ARC list for when the time comes.
YA Fantasy romance....Strongly disagree with that label. But, I guess the other stuff is subjective. Personally, I enjoyed both TSC and TSS. I like Tobias and Leila.
That's totally fine, I'm glad you enjoyed the book! :)
What would be your label?
FYI - What makes something YA is the age of the protagonist, not whether or not the dialogue is stilted and insta-love is present. Pretty sure you’re insulting YA writers with that assessment. Other than that, great review. Thanks.
No that's not how YA works. YA is mostly a phrase used in marketing, it is not about the age of the character. It is more complex then that and books can shift between being marketed as YA or adult in different geographic locations and with time, as the trends change. (Like Sandersons mistborn books did, for example). There are a lot of protagonists that are children in adult fiction (I would NOT call "Lolita" a book for teens hahaha. especially not during the time when it was first published. It is adressed directly toward adults and their view of young girls.) However, there are a few thing that is characteristic of YA and how publishers and distributors treat it. Generally, the audience is expected to be younger (YOUNG adult), so the language matches that. I.e. the language is not as developed. Objectively, Morecis books lack a lot of the language and writing tools that other authors, writing for adults tend to use. She does not use free indirect discourse, she does not use tense creatively or perspective. She does not set scenes and aah I could go on. However, not setting scenes does not make the text "younger", but usling a less developed narrative DOES (A younger reader is not expected to keep track of as much information as adults, and their concentrationspan is expected to be shorter and their education is not expected to be on post. uni. level yet.). That is a marker of reading comprehension, and you know people measure that. But the reading comprehension index of Mopreci book is objectively low. And that is sort of BAD for YA and indie publishing. If Moreci would have spent more time developing her manuscript, then that would have been good for indie-writers as a whole, because their reputaion would have gone up. But, as it stands, the trope of calling indie-publishers books underdeveloped still rings true as far as she is concerned. This is bad for everyone. Another thing that is very important for marketing is the psychology of the book, themes, characters. This is, apart from the language and narrative, the main thing that makes this book YA and not adult. The psychology is not on the level expected in adult fiction.