Eps 372: Are Light or Heavy Bullets Better for Deer and Elk?
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- Опубліковано 22 лис 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! Ron's here to argue light- vs. heavy-for-caliber bullets for taking big game. And how many socks and under do you need on a backpack hunt. And a lot more.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Love the 270 it works for me in Alaska!!!
Same. I got 2 moose with mine in unit 20
There’s not much a 150 grain partition out of a 270 won’t kill…
Very true
Thats a fact. So close in terminal balistics to the 7mag
There’s not much that a 130 grain partition out of a 270 won’t kill…….
The .284 projectile is the king from way back !
There’s not much a 270 won’t kill…
I have a 270, 7mm-08, and a 300win mag, love them all.
How is the 7mm-08? What do you use it for? I keep hearing people love them. I’ve never even fired one.
@@robpolaris7272whatever you want. I shoot 120 grain bullets My nephew's likes 150 grain.
@@robpolaris7272deer, black bear, elk... whatever. The nice thing about the 7mm caliber is there are a ton of bullet options. 7mm-08 with a 139gr. soft point (Hornady American Whitetail in my case) has dropped many deer out of my Model 70. Slightly less recoil than .308, and .270Win. Randy Newberg hunts elk all the time with 7mm-08, but you will want to limit your hunting distances to within 300, give or take. I have heard a lot of guys say they have a hard time finding ammo for it, but I never have. If you are shopping at a country store in the locality you are hunting in, I could see why finding ammo would be difficult. If you look at all the major sporting goods and outdoor stores (Cabela's, Dunham's, and the like) you ought not have too much issue finding some. From a shooting standpoint, it performs well as any caliber between 6.5CM to .270Win. It doesn't reinvent the wheel, but just like a lot of other calibers, it does what needs to with reliable, and lethal efficiency. Very mild to shoot. In my rifle anyway, it is very accurate right out of the box with inexpensive ammo. Hornady ammo (of several different ammo lines) always groups sub-MOA, roughly 5/8"- 1". If you are training a youth to shoot, it can be a good option, as long as you use lighter bullet weights, like 120gr., or less. If the youth is on the smaller side, then you might consider recoil management ammo, or a muzzle device, but I don't think it is necessary. 7mm-08 is a really good choice for striking a balance between recoil sensitivity, and reasonably long hunting distances, while keeping moderately heavier for caliber bullets. It's a good all-a-round caliber, and very favorable for reloaders and factory shooters alike.
@@hammerheadms Thanks, great info.
Glad Linda is recovering well! I really enjoyed hearing her story on that interview.
Just to add something to the end. Just because your rifle didn't shoot well today doesn't mean that it won't tomorrow. I have had plenty of bad days at the range. I can't get as steady as I should be or comfortable . Or who knows why. Any how just pack it up and come back another day. Things can change dramatically I have done it to many times. Way more than I should thanks Ron. Love your channel keep the good stuff coming out way 👍
My favorite rifle is a New England Firearms single shot in 280 rem it is one of the consistently accurate rifle I have. I bought nearly 30 years ago at Wally World.
I have one of those
For many years I hunted deer with 180 grain 30-06, but when I finally tried a lighter bullet I noticed a difference. The heavier bullet had more of a tendency to zip through without a great deal of damage. The lighter bullet released a lot more energy before exit and created a better wound channel.
structure has an impact (no pun) a KS will behave differently from a norma Oryx for example. Heavy "hard" bullet will punch through with less expansion on smaller games
Try the 180gr round nose in the big woods there deadly .
7mm08. 300 yards and under
I like your book on desk. I got one. Took many deer with it. The old Mauser barrel was shot out. I got a new barrel. Still 7mm. Love that round..... 270 is my long range gun....
👍🏻 I’m a 270win guy. Love getting info on this cartridge
Bless your heart!
Same here and I don’t even own one yet but the first rifle I ever get is going to be the Bergara B-14 chamber in 270 win
Love my 280ai Kimber Mountain ascent!
4-5 Layer system for hunting. 1under layer. 2 techical poyester or marino mid layers ( short sleeve and long), 1 wind stopper layer, 1 hardshell rain jacket
Im from New Zealand and a tikka t3x in 7mm 08. Perfect bush rifle out to 300m. 7mag or 270 for a tops rifle to 500m
Once upon a time long long ago when I was in the military, I belonged to a local gun club with shooting stations all the way to 600 yards. A friend bought a then new 7mm Remington and was angry that it only shot 3 inch groups at 100 yards. Then found out it shot the same 3 inch groups at 300 yards. He had rediscovered the air spiral first observed back around 1900 by FW Mann who put a lot of targets up in a row and shot through them. He kept the rifle! and hunted with it after that. So sub-MOA accuracy may not really matter in terms of ultimate accuracy anyway.
Ron I've been watching you for years now. Just wondering if you know and never told us, maybe I missed it. I'm 64 now so getting on up there. I found out about 10 years or so. On most any caliber to get a scope sighted in. Start at 20 feet, shoot 1 shot while holding gun still, move cross hairs to hole. Just about every caliber will be dead on at 100 yards. Had a older man teach me this, to my surprise it works very well. Have you ever tried this? If not will you try it a put a video out on it? When i was younger I would shoot half a box just to get it some where close then the other half to get groups. Please try this and let us know what you find out. Thanks and happy shooting.
Yes indeed, Kurtis. That's the way to do it. I have discussed this and shown it several times on my channels. Thanks for alerting all of us.
Ron, Thanks for sharing your knowledge and being sincere and kind answering all these questions.
There are so many different levels of expertise from people asking questions and you manage to do with grace congratulations.
I have a lifelong interest in firearms so i am happy to share anything I’ve learned with new shooters, and with my old crony friends it provides hours of camp fire conversations. Often the answers to firearms related questions is “it depends “, kinda like life.
Here’s a general open to all question for your show. When I was raising my family, and budget conscious and being a practical person I decided I didn’t want to have a cabinet filled with stuff. So as I upgraded or changed rifles I tended to remove something (sell/trade) from the cabinet when I brought a new rifle shotgun in.
What rifle have you sold that you truly regret and are looking to replace ?
For the new shooter with the 270, if you are OK with recoil , then in some situations 7 mag maybe, but 6.5 prc is redundant to 270 until out to about 400 to 500 yards. So if you think 270 recoil is the limit then 7mm-08 for back up to 270.
Another great video. Always had lots of admiration and respect for you Ron. That's many years of reading and watching you.
Much appreciated, Jimmie.
Shooting a animal at extreme distances can mean that you are a better shot than average but shooting a animal extremely close can mean you are a better hunter
How so?
@@stephenwest798takes really good stalking skills to get close to an animal undetected. I wouldn’t it’s easier or harder, it’s not as easy as people think shooting sub moa - sub half moa groups at 400-600 yards. To f class and PRS shooters it’s easy, but I’d wager even in the demographic of hunters, 80-90% of hunters are not. For most people a 400 yard shot is long
@@Nathan-zw7nq True, I think those who hunt out west generally take longer shots because of the terrain and with more accurate rifles and better scopes along with range finders most of them are more capable of doing so successfully. Most of the deer are taken at close range here in Pa and I let them come to me, so stalking isn't required. Most of my long-range shooting is woodchuck hunting and as silly as it may sound my model 788 Rem in 243 w/a $40.00 Winchester scope makes it easy, 450 yards has been my longest shot to date. Funny the return of eagles has really made the woodchucks shy or non-existent.
@@stephenwest798 were in pa are you we still have plenty of groundhogs here in south eastern pa amd plenty of eagles too
@@awsomedude12345678 N.C. about twenty-five miles south of the NY border. A few years back I was in a hedge row wondering where the chucks were and out of nowhere to giant shadows slide over the field and I look up to see two eagles, no wonder those chucks wouldn't stick their heads up, crap I used to shot one and in a short period of time another would commit suicide by sticking its head up. I haven't been hunting them for a few years, but I am not seeing them killed on the roads in the numbers I used to see, in fact damn few. We also have coyotes, and they get a few chucks themselves. Been busy the last couple of years and don't go 24/7 like I did when I was younger, but I am thinking next year I'll have more free time to hunt the little critters if I can find any, hell I used to have them in the bank in front of the house and their gone.
The 06has taken all species on the American continent for me. WAS NEVER UNDERGUNNED! Than again, I was always able to be under three hundred yards!! Called hunting. 😀👍
i've used the site-lite for years the Green laser , use a 1" to 2" white reflector or the silver part of D.O.T. tape out at a 100 yards daytime, easy to fine turn before your first short fired,
KUIU is definitely worth looking into.
Hey Ron thank you for all your time and effort it takes to put these together! I’ll try to keep it short: I’m a reloader. At the moment I am primaraly shooting/reloading 5.56, 300blk and 6mm ARC. I want to get into precision bolt action shooting and as I live in Alaska, more hunting. Here is my problem: I want a caliber that hits harder than 6ARC/300blackout and I’m planning on it being a bolt gun so fitting in a AR platform isn’t a issue. I am unable to source large rifle primers but have thousands and thousands of small rifle primers. What is the best option for a bolt action hunting cartridge that uses a small rifle primer? Thanks again!
Will be hunting deer and the occasional moose
G'day Ron, Love your videos mate. I've learned a lot from you. Cheers for sharing your wisdom.
Bullet construction has a lot to do it. For plain cup and core , heavy is better. Premium controlled expansion for thick skin game is needed for high velocities. Small bore 6mm and 25 calibers like the 243 and 25-06 benefit with controlled expansion bullets. The 6mm 100gr Nosler partition gets good reviews for performance on game but that can be said for any Nosler partition.
Ron, I'm sitting here listening in and I'm - as usual - appreciating your input.
I, too, love Kennetrek boots - I turned to them after finding the Everstep Orthos being recommended on a few other pages, for folks like me who have rubber ankles and high arches.
I've taken them out into the field a few times during Missouri's general gun deer season, and have recently started dragging my carcass out of bed for a short hike around town with the dog in the AM - And could not be happier with them.
I'm hopeful to get out to Utah with Tate and Process Based Hunter, myself, and really appreciate your insights for packhunting.
Thanks as always!
Frog tog rain suit! Jacket and pants. I use it hunting and at work in MT. It’ll heat you up too! So be careful not to sweat in the winter! Weights less then a pound and cost $35 usd!
Good goin buddy but I got other things to do and places to go and I need some fresh air
Samurai ain’t wrong!
Hi Ron, South African here, love your videos and love listening to them on my way to work and learning about cartridges, I think the people who are saying you should get rid of the rifle dont know how much of a difference the right load can make in a rifle, I have an old .303 Brit Lee Enfield and went from a 5 inch group to just under 1 inch with a 75 year old rifle just by finding the right load, just a quick question though will your group sizes change when going to a different higher in altitude location like going from 820ft to 2200ft or will it only be a point of impact shift?
Should just be point of impact change.
Haven’t been able to find partitions for many calibers for years now.
North Fork has been my go to since then.
I’ve been using my 270 130g bullets on every deer hunt for 35 years. I get a deer almost every year…works perfect!
I use 270 Hornady Superformance 130 grain . Killed a buck at 126 yards when it was barely light. Aimed for a heart shot but hit the lungs. Part of the lung was was actually coming out of the entry hole!
Same here 270 for 30 years
Hey Ron I’ve got an idea for you to try and slim the gap between hunters and tactical shooters. If you were to do a fighting rifle class with someone like thunder ranch and document your experience, it would better show that we all have a lot of overlap. Keep up the great work.
I'm a 270 guy! And 7mag! And 30/06! Great rounds
30-06 is best girl.
In short barrels light for caliber bullets can makeup for some or all of the velocity loss which is a good thing but then you give up bc. To compensate for loss of bc go with monolithic projectiles that retain nearly 100% weight and penetrate like a class or 2 heavier.
I believe Daniel Boone's rifle was 'Tick Licker', but I didn't know him personally.
Seen snow in july banff cdn rockies.true!
Ron I have a question about barrels I'm going to put a varmint barrel and wanted to know what your thoughts are about maker's for my CZ527 /223/ and a1/8 twist
I bought last fall, 6.5 mm. 140 grain Partition bullets from Graff and sons for $85 per 50. Expensive but I wanted them.
Thank you for these videos. What do you think of the Savage 110 Trail Hunter Light, in 7 rem mag?
in regards to Sky's question about the .38/357: I have heard that this dates back to the cap and ball revolver days when your 38 and 44 wheel-guns where actually close to those bores. When cartridges became popular many companies and smiths simply created cases that were the size of the cylinder and added new barrles, so while the .38 special fires a .357 bullet, the case diameter is .38.
20 gage foster slugs are great
Is the partition ever loaded in creedmoor? It's a low bc bullet and that cartridge was made for target/ accuracy so those two don't necessarily match. The 127 barnes would likely be good or go with the accubond or ablr
Go for a Tikka T3X in 7mmRM (24" heavy barrel like the GRTech). Perfect all rounder.
Looking to get exactly that rifle. How is the recoil? Similar to 308 and 30-06? Overkill for whitetail Deer?
I hunted for 20 years using a Tasco World Class 3-9x40 so you don't really have to spend a fortune on a good scope.
@rogerf7265 true, 30 years à tasco titan was top of the range for an "affordable" scope and it was doing the job. The WC were cool too, I still have a 3-9x32
THANKS RON, FOR AN ALWAYS AWESOME PODCAST!!!!!!!
G'day Ron, great content as always! I have an LA102 chambered in .223 made by Lithgow arms in Lithgow Australia, the same company that built the SLR and Austyre service rifles mentioned in this video. When i bought the rifle it had acceptable accuracy for deer of around 1.5moa. However as it's illegal to use a .22 on deer here in Australia, the rifles main target is wallaby and head shots on rabbits and 1.5moa isn't quite acceptable IMO as it does not leave much room for error. After some tinkering and getting the rifle to shoot better i ended up gearing it towards target shooting by dropping the action into an MDT LSS chassis and replacing the scope with an Australian designed Zerotech 5-25x56mm (extreme value for money BTW) and some flash MDT rings to suite. Since doing that earlier this year, the rifle has turned out to be my favorite Hunting rifle (from a vehicle) and has taken easily over 300 Bennett's wallaby and just today without being cleaned from prior to being built, shot 7 consecutive 0.4moa 3rnd groups on paper @100m with factory ammo with one being as low as 0.32moa. However, just because i was extremely lucky enough to get these results, does not mean that everyone else will have the same luck or even people with the same rifle, chassis and scope combo or even myself on another day for that matter. I feel like this is where the 'hyper accuracy' problem comes from. People see the same or similar rifle get crazy good accuracy so they expect that best case scenario out of them all. Keep up the great work Ron! Always something new to learn from you.
If your wanting to improve your pack and load. Best way to improve it, is put a light load in a pack and walk up a hill. Six months early. When the hill starts to seem easy, take a bigger load or up a bigger hill.
As a preference, always go heavy, if the twist rate can stabilize the longer bullet, as you get a better BC & SD and more punch to the victim.
Some guys can go 7-10 days on just one full change,(pants, shirt,under insul,) + 3 prs sox,2 bread bags,2 prs boots. 50'-1/4 paracord, 100'-1/2rope,
2 tarps(1-8x12' 1-12x24') 1-3# hatchet
1-18" double cut hand saw.
I’d love to see you sit down with Randy Selby and talk ballistics in elk/moose cartridges.
Daniel Boone's rifle was called tick-licker I believe you're referring to Davy Crockett's rifle old Betsy 10:35
Yeah, his old bess and beautiful bess he got in Washington DC
Light for caliber/cartridge= Barnes TTSX. Nuff said..
Coni Brooks killed a LOT of stuff, small and big, with a 130-grain TSX out of a 300 Win.
Hammer bullets/load data are superior to Barnes. Way more velocity and boringly reliable terminal effect.
120 grain out of both my 7-08 and 7 mag. Love them.
Which one is better .270 or 8mm mauser
George, it's not that one is better; it's which does better the things you want. Do you want flatter trajectory for a longer reach or more energy on target at closer ranges? Do you want a better supply and variety of ammo? Do you want a .277" bullet or .323"? I'd likely choose 8mm for moose, elk, bears at 150 yards, but 270 for everything else.
Hello Ron if you shoot a bullet in space it will keep going faster and faster I guess the speed of lite some say it will eventually cross paths again heavy and medium soft lead and copper construction boomerang
Hey Ron and John! I'm in EO and would be happy to help you with some reloading for some partitions in your 6.5. I know where to order components online
Was ol'Betsy Davy Crockett's ?
.280 REM, 140gr.
I actually built a 280 Ackley last winter using a old Remington 721 action I haven’t shot it enough to get the new Shilens barrel broken in but I have shot it and it seems to shoot okay for not working a load up
30 06 180 grains
I always preferred the 165-168 gr bullets but that might have been my rifle’s choice. The old Savage 110 never let me down with that range of bullets.
Just buy a Leupold gold ring. Can’t go wrong!
#RON (I've been hunting since before 1965) your #Explanation of How shooting animals in other countries actually empowers and supports the local people by revenue and food in their bellies...meaning nothing goes to waste was a great illustration.
I often see hunters proudly #Posing with their kill.
I have never appreciated that aspect, and believe it badly represents the sport.
IF those hunters who display their #Trophy, and, at the same time also explain just what you did (how everyone beneifits) that would be a great improvement on how hunting is viewed.
Just the thought of saying; WOW we had a successful hunt, and we fed the community with our bounty.
That would change everything.
Yes, the trophy pose is a bit of a challenge. I fear we are too sensitive to it because it is easily misunderstood. Some see it as grandstanding/bragging, others as pride in accomplishment. I've often noted that everyone likes photos of teams posing with their championship cup, Olympians with their gold medals, kids with their State Fair champion pigs, rabbits and chickens, grandpas with their trophy sized tomatoes and pumpkins, fishermen with their big fish, etc. Everyone gets to pose with their trophies -- except hunters.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Yes Ron, it is a sensitive area I guess. I have personally taken many photos of animals I've shot, trapped and even fish I've cooked up in the griddle. In fact my grand dad was a state trapper and also taxidermist, counting my own - there were displays averywhere! Hunting is a sport and a source of survival however either can be dishonored and disrespected. Holding up an award for best pig at the fair is different that setting off 5 pounds of tannerite at the feeding trough. But, again - my view is hunters should be very proud of their catch 100%. Thank you for your response.
It was Davy Crockett who called his rifle "Betsy", not Daniel Boone.
Tick licker ?
Tick licker ?
Daniel Boone called his rifle Tick licker I think ?
Wool is warm when wet, cotton kills in the cold.
For the 6.5 bowhunter, grab the Barnes 129 LRX or the 124 Hammer Hunter.
@@tolesy00 I use 117 or 124 gr hammer in 270. Their stone cold killers.
What about 125 gr winchester copper impact?
Monos suck
@@travissmith-wz5nc awesome! 120gr here in 7mm-08 over varget 😎
@@titomish5914 no experience with this load. I’m sure they’re great.
I think the problem with copper bullets after gilded metal bullets, might be caused due to the zinc affecting the pure copper, changing the ballistics.😊
Has anyone here had experience using the EC tuner brake? The one similar to the Browning Boss.
Sir Ron! I love the Speer grand slam hunting bullet. Y are they not more popular. 😢
Probably because they have a rather stodgy form factor (low B.C.) and no sexy polymer tip. I employed them in a 300 Win Mag some 30 years ago in Africa with complete success, although one delivered to an impala from 150 yards or so front to back ended up in several pieces in a rear leg.
I still want your predator book
The 6.5 RPM is a good gun .
7mm08 with 160 grain pills i love
A buddy of mine has killed dozens of elk with 150gr bullets out of a 300win mag. I just cant seem to bring myself to shoot anything under 180gr. To me, more weight is better, thats just me though.
If you've had consistent success with 180 g's then stick with it. Don't follow the flock, do what works for you 😉
Wood will warp but if it's well waterproof finish will keep it to a minimum
Only rifle I have ever shot that refused to group is a mossberg patriot in 270, you can get it on paper then 2 close and the 3rd is off paper completely, I know someone that has had the same problem with a 308, the scope that was on it is now on my ruger American 308 and shoots lights out, the patriots are hit or miss literally
Heavy for caliber for me.
Last year i took two whitetail with my 7 rem mag using light weight bullets because i couldnt gwy my hands im anything else to load up for the season. It made me a convert to the light and fast thinking. One git hit straight on in the chest and he never even twitched. Just out like a light. The other was a doe i caught mid air at 30 yards because she surprised me on the trail after i had decided to give up for the day and head back. She made it about 20 yards and was gone in less than 60 seconds. During necropsy and butchering i saw why. Both times it was like a small fragmentation grenade went off and shredded the heart and lungs. I assume their blood pressue dropped so much so fast that one never knew and the other didnt have long enough to panic.
So at least for medium sized game I am now a convert but for something bigger I'd go back to a heavier bullet in 7mm to make sure it gets deep enough.
Nothing wrong with heavy bullets as long as they're going fast enough. Medium weight is where it's at for non magnums.
I did not know Mr. Spomer even had a t-shirt!
308 😊
SHOT PLACEMENT WITH BEING CONSISTENT!!
If the rifle is not accurate ,and the shooter can't shot it accurately , bullet weight is not important. In my rifles I use either Barnes TTSX or Norma oryx and nothing needs an extra shot.
Energy = Mass x Velocity-squared. Double the mass of the bullet you double the energy. Double the velocity and you get FOUR times the energy. Such is physics!
Good luck finding accubond in .284, Nosler must not want us to have them.
@@kellywiddison3618 picked up two boxes of the 140s at scheels back in early July.
Ron in a Tee shirt ? 🤔
But Ron I have noticed some 100.00 plus scopes made in China. I wonder at what price point the scopes become American made?
I understand you love the rifle, and enjoy doing the load work up, but if it has a 1moa guarantee, there should be a factory load that they guarantee that with. It should be in the manual, "We guarantee 1 MOA of accuracy with X brand Y bullet," if not they have no guarantee and shouldn't advertise 1.
Considering he uses hand loads, I'm sure it doesn't matter to him that there is a factory load that is sub moa if that is the case.
Although the 30-06 is still a good cartridge, it would benefit from a more modern chamber design. It seems that the "match chamber" designs tend to be on average more accurate with various different loads. Although it is often possible to find a combination of bullet/powder/primer/seating-depth that works well for a given rifle, these days, a lot of trial-and-error load development can be expensive. It would be nice to have a more forgiving design.
Although it is possible to get a more modern chamber in a barrel for a 30-06, that means the extra costs of a custom barrel and in many cases, a gunsmith. It would be nice to have an updated 30-06 SAAMI certified to make less expensive factory rifles available. A change to the SAAMI spec for the original 30-06 seems unlikely. In order to make it worthwhile for a company to go through the SAAMI certification process, it would probably need a different name like "30-06 Improved" to differentiate it from the parent cartridge and be able to generate new rifle, barrel and ammo sales. Like an Ackley Improved version, the new chambering could use the standard ammo (like the 280 and 280AI). Unlike the Ackley Improved cartridges that I have seen, this one would use an improved "match style" chamber to improve accuracy (AI cartridges typically use the same leade-throat design as the parent). I suspect that the new 30-06 Improved would have a steeper shoulder angle, maybe less case taper, and possibly a higher max pressure (65,000psi vs 60,000). The new cartridge would have improved accuracy and slightly more velocity than the original, but the steeper shoulder angle would prevent it being used in the older, non-improved chambers. After hearing some Hornady podcasts, I suspect that the shoulder angle would be closer to 30° to facilitate factory case forming (apparently the 40° AI shoulders have a high scrap rate).
I just sighted in my m1 garand with factory barnes vortex 150 ttsx bt i had a 2 shot groups at 1/2 in. 1.5" for 3 shots consistantly. 3000 fps (used a chronograph) id say that modern factory 30-06 can be and is quite good.
For a long time I played with the idea of re-chambering my 30-06 to the AI version, but after seeing the price of the reloading dies, and the rate at which some factory cases split while fire forming, along with the fact that another of my buddies bought himself an 06 and we could share ammo if necessary, it became obvious that it would be better to stick to my standard chamber and reload for friends when there's an ammo drought.
However yes an update to the chamber, and an excuse to buy another gun would be very welcomed.
@@patrioticspartan That is pretty impressive!
I recently came across the accuracy specs for the rifle: "Acceptable accuracy with the Garand According to MIL-R-3285, Rifles, U. S., Caliber .30, M1 and M1C, dated 8 September 1950 for a new manufactured M1 rifles five rounds fired at a range of 100 yards "shall come within or cut the edge of the bull's eye (or a centrally located 5-inch circle if a "T" target is used)...""
@@linkbond08 The most important change for my proposed "Improved" 30-06 would be the freebore/throat geometry. The rest would be mainly enough changes to make it worthwhile for a company to get it through the SAAMI approval process. I realized that if someone can't make money from it (rifles, barrels ammo), it would not even get submitted.
I wondered if a less extreme design than the AI version might make more sense for both case forming and/or smooth feeding. My thinking was that things like loading dies would be less expensive once it was a SAAMI cartridge and had more volume.
thank you. Its got a new barrel from criterion and has treated me well. I will say after 3 shots its hard to keep better than a 4" group at 100yrds. Ive shot a nice 10 group prone at 200 though with federal blue box 150gr. 6-8 inches i believe. I shoot NRA/CMP matches at my local range. My best standing at 200 is 11.5" group 10 shots single loaded with 10 mins on the timer lol i got a 77 with 1 X
I ened up getting 2nd in my division by 7 points(MK if you know you know,im still a novice) but got the average shooter. Our local range just does call outs for winners of each division and the average shooter along with most improved from last month.
There are a lot of "American" companies that use Chinese parts. It's almost impossible to get away from China.
The word is getting out the Mossberg are not that accurate. The culprit is how the action beds in the stock.
My stepdad has a Mossberg Patriot in .270 he has killed over 50 whitetail deer, dozens of feral hogs, coyots, bobcats…. You name it…. It still holds a zero after all these years… he is rough with that rifle as well. He does bot baby anything he owns. Lol. Maybe his rifle is older and built when quality was better I cannot say for sure, but it works for him.
Bump
I think the 223 takes a .224 inch bullet.
My 222 Remington takes a .224 inch bullet L.O.L
Right you are, Bill. All modern 22s shoot .224" bullets. Some used to take .228"
It depends on the cartridge’s ability to deliver the bullet with adequate velocity for adequate penetration and expansion, and that depends on the type of bullet. Then you have to consider over-penetration going too far and into the gut, such as a brisket shot through the lungs, liver, then continuing into the stomach and intestines.🤮 Consider the anticipated range and cartridge to decide on the bullet.
Case in point,
2023 Western Oregon Blacktail season, I shot a small buck (very tasty and tender) in the brisket center-mass (Army vet) as the buck was quartering away to the left @92 yards @50’ above me. The 130gn. Sig Elite Hunter Tipped projectile penetrated through and wrecked both lungs and penetrated to the right rib cage, where it fragmented, and ruined @6x6” section of rib meat. That shot had a great result, but what if it was a boiler shot quartering away and the same bullet penetrated into the gut? That’s why considering “too much gun” is just as important.
Btw, my hunting rig was a 1982 Ruger M77 Tang Safety (that I bought new while in the Army,) rebarreled to a chrome-moly PacNor polygonal rifled 260AI.
Federal tlr bullets seem not to open. Federal fusion and hammer bullets seem to have best luck in 270 win. Barnes and partition work well.
@@travissmith-wz5ncMy point was, at short ranges, over-penetration is a concern; those projectiles you mentioned have even more penetration capability @92 yards. Shot placement and impact angle is key. The deer quartering forward was the key why my shot didn’t penetrate into the guts.
Light for caliber worked FINE until 2010ish when all the sudden it only matters what a bullet does AFTER 500 METERS...
440 YARDS AND CLOSING is too close for hunting its unfair to the games. I meant game. Wild game life. Or wild animals. Hell idk
Mos to all American made scopes come from china & japan
Your scope is the most important part of your rifle setup. Spending double the cost of your rifle on glass (and base and rings) is a good approach.
Bullet selection is more important than caliber.
And shot placement is more important than both IMO
@@warrenpolidori5541 very true
Algorithm
I am amazed by the number of ignorant I'll mannered people that comment on some of your post.
It's truly shocking, and ron still gives them respect when he reads their comments. He's a stand up guy.
Mossberg rifles are the biggest piles of shit on the market
I haven't seen anybody that's truly happy that's bought one. Every1 here is sum advice if u want a solid , accurate, good looking rifle. Buy yourself a Weatherby vanguard, weather guard bronze. Best built rifle and best fit & finish in the 1000$ tier
18:44 😂 dems go hunting