I think the thing people always miss in Killing Joke is, the Joker is wrong, he was trying to prove the whole one bad day thing by torturing Gordon but that doesn't work and Gordon still wants him brought in the right way even after what happened to Barbara and the torture he went through. Batman's the same he's gone through pretty damn bad days multiple times and he still didn't turn into a serial killer.
@@williamfinch9858 I mean in all fairness, literally the only person you can blame that on is the joker. He could have killed her if he wanted to. It's not as if she survived through happenstance and that's why gordon didn't crack and jokers plan miraculously didn't work. Joker executed his own plan perfectly, the only caveat being that Gordon's character was too strong.
From my point of view, even if the Joker does have a tragic backstory, it doesn't really matter, because the sins he's committed, the suffering and death he's caused, and the lack of remorse and repentance he's shown since then have far exceeded whatever may have happened to him. Someone driven to crime by trauma can only play the victim for so long and to such an extent before they forfeit whatever sympathy they may have initially deserved, and the Joker has gone FAR beyond that point. Wether he was a victim originally or not, he certainly is not one now.
The thing that saves the Arthur Fleck version of the Joker, for me, is the end where it turns out a significant amount of the movie was all in his head. That, for me, was a visualization of the 'multiple choice backstory' thing, and I really enjoyed that twist.
But not Evil. That's someone with a severe mental issue. Put it in that light Batman is a bully hurting this poor man. However, the Joker relentlessly kills other with no compassion. It paints a monster as the victim.
The ending is open to interpretation. All we know is that he was talking to the psychiatrist, but from a meta point of view, we'll never know how much of what we just saw was told. It could be parts, it could be everything. My problem comes from the fact that there's a second movie coming in, with Harley. So this one is happening in real life. Will this prove that everything in the first one was real, or is he gonna reveal his true nature as described in this video ? I don't really see the latter happening to be honest, not if they want the story to be compelling without Batman.
@@MasterChakra7 yeah I'm surprised there was even a 2nd movie, I didn't see Joker 2019 as a comic book film, but rather an absolute thriller and a look through someone's mind, so bringing in comic book stuff like Harley would be arguable...
I think a lot of the problems with the Joker is that a lot of stories involving him treat him the same reverence he treats himself with, when in reality he’s weak, pathetic, and wrong. In The Killing Joke, he’s wrong about it only taking one bad day, in The Dark Knight he’s wrong about the people on the boat killing each other to survive. He thinks him and batman are two sides of the same coin, that neither could live without the other, but he’s wrong. Batman has a rogues gallery that goes far beyond just the joker, and more importantly batman has a family that he loves and that love him. The joker only has batman, he is nothing without batman, but batman has plenty without the joker. Too many stories treat joker like he’s correct about society and how the world works, but he isn’t, and thats why he’s the villain and batman is the hero. He isn’t batman’s equal, and they aren’t two sides of the same coin, but he needs to think they are in order to justify his own existence. He’s the polar opposite of batman, he’s the definition of someone who stared into the abyss and blinked. Where he was broken by the hardships of life, and couldn’t take what he viewed to be meaningless, batman knew he could try to make the world a better place. Monsters aren’t made by one bad day, monsters are made by weak men like him. Its why the Killing Joke is my favorite Joker story, it absolutely tears down everyone he believes in and thinks about himself, while strengthening Batman’s character. BTAS Joker and Arkham Joker are fantastic versions of the character, along with the stories I mentioned earlier, they show him as pathetic, but still make him a threat. That shows how good the writing in those stories is.
I wish this comment was pinned. It's insane how much the Killing Joke's main thesis, as you said, that it doesn't take one bad day, is completely missed by a lot of fans. Jim Gordon doesn't crack. Hell, Batman is by most definitions "crazy" and dealing with his trauma unhealthy, but he never uses that as an excuse to become a sadist. Funny enough, Watchmen's Rorschach (another Alan Moore story) is lauded as being this unmitigated bad ass and paragon of virtue when Moore himself tried heavily to portray him as toxic as fuck.
One of my fav Joker momments is in the DC Expanded Universe cartoon where he drives a whole town insane by manipulating a psychic child who drives people mad around her by saying she does not drive him mad because he is already mad but then at the end it is revealed he was just using a device to supress her mental powers and soon as Batman removes it Joker goes insane and I mean proper insane. Biggest joke Joker ever pulled on the world was convicing others he is above human.
Well, he's not exactly proven wrong, just that it maybe wasn't bad enough. It's possible that most people, if not everyone, will break under enough torture. We all have our physical and psychological limits. The bigger question is why does that matter? Why should we care so much about having limits? Joker seemingly is pushing people to these limits to prove something, but does it really matter? Many of us are always trying to improve, and do the best we can. Does having limits really devalue the effort we put in now?
Also he's not completely wrong in the dark Knight. He says his main plan was Harvey Dent, which worked. And Bane reveals what Harvey Dent did. I guess it didn't destroy the city because their lie worked, but the people did find out.
Exactly. This is why I hate injustice. Not only was it written poorly,but it completely missed the point of the killing joke. No matter how hard joker tries to corrupt and hurt batman and Gordon,they won't budge. They stick by their code no matter and although it may not be the most healthy atleast they try to improve both the world and themselves. Joker can't do that. He's stuck in a cycle and I think Arkham Knight portrayed his biggest fear brilliantly
One of Joker’s main reasons why he is such an interesting villain, is how he’s the complete opposite of Batman. Giving him a sympathetic backstory, takes away from that natural feeling of complete opposites.
I disagree. I think it shows how differently Joker reacts to loss compared to Batman. Joker let it make him become a monster, Batman became the Dark Knight.
they're not complete opposites... it would seem like it but throughout their feuds in comics, movies and games (especially the arkham games)... they are just as insane as each other and they'll never stop fighting even if batman kills joker although i dont agree that batman will kill more and more and make him just as bad as the joker because in that's the case then why is batman considered a 'superhero' - batman is more like an antihero than anything else... so many ppl point to how batman will become the 'Batman who laughs' but in that story, batman gets infected by the jokers gas and that's it... they could've made it so that the joker gas revealed batmans true intentions which is to kill but they didn't... the only one that does this is in Arkham Knight, batman at one point in Arkham Knight told penguin (as he's taking him to GCPD) that he's going to kill him since he doesn't feel right or something like that... now that is what 'Batman who laughs' shouldve done
My favorite part of Killing Joke is the multiple choice line because it makes Joker even scarier. The possibility of madness not being explained is horrifying. He’s not some dude we should feel sorry for. He’s an irredeemable monster, period. Also while we’re on the subject, Mark Hamill is the definitive Joker. Forever the goat!
I never understand people who criticize Killing Joke because it gave Joker an origin and that "the origin should be at multiples choices" while this was Bill Finger who gave the basics of Joker’s origins (Red Hood, Robbing, Chemical bath, etc…) and that it was Alan Moore who created the multiple choices.
I disagree, i think the tragedy aspect in the Joker is pretty interesting just like batman he had a big tragedy in his life, but different to Batman, he decided to treat everything as big joke
@@passarovoador6662 oh I agree that the tragedy is interesting. But it’s why Batman and Joker are perfect opposites. They went on different paths, and it’s why we shouldn’t feel sorry for the joker. We all go through shit and life hits us all hard sometimes, but that doesn’t mean we become deranged, murderous monsters lol
@@AlexLove631 Yeah, but i think that's kinda the part of the terror of the Joker He someday was just a guy, how the f did he end up like this? if someone decided to act like him and treat life as a big joke, could someone end up like him? And that fear of how corruptible a human being could be scares the living shit out of everyone And also could be used by the Joker to fuck with someone even more, he was human, is there a bit of humanity left in him? i don't think his humanity should be apparent to everyone or that he should be hyper relatable, but i like to think he has still a bit of humanity inside of him, and that's one of the greatest things in Killing Joke, he might have humanity but you can't just see through The Joker, you need to try understand the Joker and you need to him want you to understand him and even so, that's highly unlikely I think it should be and normally is more nuanced than just "Oh, poor guy" when "feeling sorry" for the joker or something like it, it's deeper than that
If anything about the Joker sticks in my mind, it's the fact that Scarecrow's fear gas does nothing to him. For the nemesis of a man that personifies fear, that speaks volumes.
Wholeheartedly agree with this take. Joker is terrifying because he is comfortable in his own madness. He doesn’t want anyone’s sympathy, because he doesn’t belong anywhere or to anyone. And he revels in it. It’s so far from what makes us human, that it makes him endlessly captivating.
The only true way to explain the joker is pure chaos which IMO is much scarier than pure evil. We understand evil we’re used to pure evil villains but someone like joker is the kind of character that even evil characters avoid because he’s impossible for normal people to understand. I think it was Dennis O’Neal who said something like “joker would spare your life one day just because he liked your shoes then the next day kill somebody else just because he liked their shoes.”
This is exactly why I wasn't a fan of Joaquin's Joker. He was the victim. The world hurt him. That's not how the Joker operates. It's also why, (*hot take ahead*) I enjoyed Leto's Joker. Because he was exactly as you said, comfortable in his madness.
@@alphamega1811 I think In Todd Phillip's Joker, Arthur was supposed to be the mask he wore to society. In the bathroom dance scene we see him starting to embrace his madness and getting comfortable with it. He's taking off that mask, and becoming who he truly is.
@@JokerFan-hj4iv lmao joker is not chaos. He is pure "evil", chaos, aka randomness, encaptures both good and "evil", if joker was chaos, he'd be equally good and evil, randomly doing all kinds of things, both helpful and destructive. Thats the nature of chaos.
Cesar Romero is the most underrated Joker, his theatrical charisma, and goofy madness is so delightful to watch. Not to mention with every adaptation, trying, harder and harder to be dark and gritty, Caesars more “mad cap” version is a breath of fresh air.
I've always thought a madcap goofball doing all the dark and gritty stuff would be scariest of them all; but so hard to pull off onscreen. Imagine Ledger's story but with Romero in the role.
I think the type of Joker that I personally like the most, is the Dark Knight Joker; you understand where he's coming from in being chaos incarnate, you understand his role in the story, but you can't ever condone his actions. Batman the Animated Series had the best joker though-he isn't sympathetic, he's just a villain and it's OKAY for someone to just be a villain after having one...bad....day.
I don’t know I’ve seen people legitimately claim the Joker was right. Hard to tell if they’re just screwing around or are legitimately serious. It’s like the people who idealize Rorschach from Watchmen.
While my favorite, Scarecrow, keeps getting done dirty, though I did enjoy Cillian Murphy's portrayal in Batman Begins. Instead of a Joker sequel, can we get a Scarecrow movie?
@@ayushghosh5855tbf I love a good joker, the last one was Jared’s and ye I can see why ppl hate the character. Hopefully we get a good one in the 3rd film if they make it
Joker’s backstory being “multiple choice” is great because you can interpret him however you like. He’s mysterious. Giving him these “what if” origin stories is a fun thing to play around with, because he obviously comes from somewhere. The theories of Ledger’s Joker being ex-military is really interesting. But his origin can also just be unknown, and he works perfectly just like that. I think that’s a testament to how great of a character Joker is. Even with the absence of depth, he’s still incredibly compelling.
I love how Jason Todd’s “you’re not nearly as crazy as you’d like us all to believe” monologue to The Joker, along with The Joker’s reaction showing that The Joker is fully aware of every evil deed he has ever done. I also enjoy stories where The Joker believes that Batman has died, so he ends up in a comatose state or becomes “normal”, like his mental state only exists to achieve a single goal. Some might think this is contradictory but I’d argue that these two things can work together, Batman is The Joker’s obsession and the man behind The Joker is fully complicit to every evil deed done in pursuit of this obsession.
That’s actually the reason I love the Arkham Series version of Mister J. You don’t really get the full sense of his background. Sure, you get him falling into the chemicals at Ace Chemicals in Origins, but that’s it. He’s insane, for the heck of it. He doesn’t give a single crap about the pain and torment he causes. I’d almost argue that Arkham’s Joker one of the best iterations of him. To me, he’s legitimately terrifying.
The Arkham Joker is a strong contender in my book for the most evil character in all of fiction. Two others on my list are The Major from Hellsing and Kefka from Final Fantasy.
Although I agree for comic accurate Joker, I absolutely love Joaquin Phoenix’s very different take on the character. It worked tremendously and made for a fantastic film
I think the title says it all. Arthur Fleck isn’t THE joker. He’s ‘joker’. He’s a shadow, a reflection, a step on the path. The joker is just as much a symbol as Batman- whoever first put on that makeup is long gone.
@@Xpertfusion it's a good movie, no doubt, but not a good Joker portrayal. When talking about the character specifically, there's a big difference. Personally I don't think Ledger is a good portrayal either. Great actor, extraordinarily entertaining in the role, but also NOT the Joker. He's more of a punk - anarchist than the clown prince of crime.
I feel like the part of Joker that’s been underserved for a long time has been the prankster element. The part that is evocative of a clown. The idea that he’s an entertainer putting on a show for just for the laughs.
Side note the reason I love that Nolan and many other artists don’t give the joker a backstory is because His backstory is so gruesome and messed up that even the joker doesn’t remember exactly what happened. Like he suppressed those memories and so when somebody asks him he just makes up a new story. Anyone else feel that way?
nah you're missing the point by assuming he has a super sad and horrible backstory for the way he is. the point is we don't know. and that it very well could be that just wanted to be evil cause it's fun.
@@DigitalHeliumJumper exactly, I feel like he switches and makes up his backstory on the spot based on his victim’s fears, like when he talks about his wife with Rachel or almost rehashes the father story on the old man, it’s to make it seem more personal between him and his victims.
There’s a character in the comics called Alexis Kaye, eventually Punchline, who made a podcast about how the Joker is sympathetic and is trying to spread a “deep” message, and wow, did that ages well.
Giving the Joker an origin story would turn out like the Rob Zombie Halloween movies where Michael Myers doesn’t kill because he’s a psychopath or the incarnate of evil but because he had a troubled childhood, taking away his unique motive that he has none. He’s scary because he kills because he can. No reasoning or task, he just does.
He's not a victim, he once was but now he's just a monster, truly the worst from humanity, His backstory is one of the best best stories I've ever read but I would've killed myself before I let myself become something truly horrible
I feel like I've been saved this kind of misunderstanding by the episode Mad Love, cause Harley is pretty much the modern audience in that situation, someone who thinks they see past the act of Joker and see his inner humanity, but the reality is shown by Batman who's fought him for years that there's nothing but darkness behind the clown no matter how many faces he puts on there's only ever been an unknowable evil as the constant. Though of course that might not always be the case across continuities, just like in more extreme elseworlds some Jokers can be a lot more simpler than the mainline counterpart who really is this dark anomaly. White Knight for instance proposes there being a simpler split personality between the Joker and Jack Napier, it works for the story they were telling, but the heart of Joker should be that unknowable evil.
I read joker this way: Batman is the best of us. He has unending willpower and commitment. He is selfless to a fault. So much so that his mission is self destructive to the physical man. Joker is the worst of us. He’s completely selfish without one ounce of empathy. He just does stuff he thinks is funny or entertaining or whatever, no matter how cruel and morbid it is.
I watched the fan-film "Batman: Dying is Easy" is there's this one line from the Joker that stayed on my head for a good while "I am completely and genuinely happy, every morning I wake up with a big smile, i absolutely love my life". That's what Joker is, not someone angry with society, or someone sad with his past, he's evil incarnated, he enjoys being evil, he is genuinely happy being evil.
I like to think of The Joker as more of an Idea than an actual person. I like when he’s an uncontrollable/unpredictable force of nature, the agent of chaos.
The Joker has a rich history of interpretations and I think we're just in the recently discovered and barely explored "Sympathetic Era" of the character. I'm much more excited to see what comes next!
Loved that you used footage of Jerome and Jeremiah from Gotham, I’ve been asking for a video on those jokers and this is the closest I will get, so thank you
My favorite detail in the killing joke is every flashback is shown to be a memory (the way the comic cuts to and from them with mirrored imagery and such) to show us this is Joker remembering these events. Further proving that it is an unreliable backstory. The line before the multiple choice line, “sometimes I remember it one way-“. In multiple lines he’s telling us the backstory is just another story of his
villains with zero context in general, baby >>>>>>> tdk joker, anton chigurh, lorne malvo, hans landa, terrence fletcher, richard strickland, the judge from blood meridian... all my faves are always inexplicable
I’ve always enjoyed the idea that every origin we see of Joker may not be true, since Joker’s the narrator he will twist things all the time, no two stories are ever the same, only one thing connects them. The Batman
This was incredible man. It’s why I’ve only seen Todd Phillip’s Joker once. Joker should be terrifying. I don’t want to cheer for him. I don’t want to empathize with him. If he scares Batman, he should terrify us. There is no reason to not be afraid. When he shows up, we should be pooping our collective pants. His obsession is with Batman, and a joker without a Batman isn’t the Joker. Thank you for validating how I’ve felt since Joker(2019) was announced. There are other great villains like Harvey Dent and Victor Fries that deserve our empathy and that’s why they’re my favorites. Joker is in his own lane, and while not my favorite. He challenges Batman in a way his other villains don’t. That’s why Ledger and Hamil are the GOATs. 11/10 video.
Heres the thing u can sympathize with him cause hes telling the interviewer his story manipulating her to let her guard down and manipulating the audience. This is why the train scene works cause u can put urself in his shoes like oh, they were probably gonna beat him to death so self defense but the one he cases and kills in cold blood thats the one ur not meant understand. Hell theres even the hospital scene where he finds out what happened to him as a child and yes he maybe lying to himself and audience but it doesn't mean it doesnt happen so it gets us to sympathize more till he does the unthinkable and smoothers his mother with the pillow. There definitely cracks when joker is telling his story to the audience like when randal says he never gave him the gun etc. Little hints that hes stretching the truth or out flat lying, same for the happy girlfriend thing. Now jokers biggest lie that makes the audience understand and sympathize with him more is his speech at the talk show. Cause everyone has done this to people whether they meant to or not just completely ignore a person/ walk by them like they dont exist, like homeless im sure we've all done it they look down on their luck and we dont know if they are lying to us or not, so we walk on by, drive on by and dont even look in there direction cause people and life are cruel. And jokers sympathy is his greatest tool to get what he wants. Sorry i went on a rant there, what i meant to say is that when first saw the joker i wasnt cheering for him because i felt like he deserved payback, i was stunned and utterly horrified that this monster was making me feel sympathy for him and his actions but also utter horror cause u never know what hes gonna do. The only time i ever cracked a smile was when i saw him take his blood and make smile with it sequence with one of the most beautiful haunting osts ive ever heard. Like this director understands joker and hes didnt give us something he doesnt understand but adores. Alot of people shit on joker 2019 but it really is a really well thought out piece of fiction
What I LOVE about your videos is that even when I may disagree, you present your case so well I can't help but hear you out and be transfixed on your thoughts. Fantastic video. Though I do think the Joker film is aiming for the audience to empathize with him, at the end of the day, he still IS evil. I don't mind seeing an interpretation which showcases his backstory, but I totally understand the love for Joker stories where, as you said it, he's simply a devil doing the devil's work.
in my opinion joker makes the batman code to not kill stronger, is easy to show mercy to catwoman or Mr freeze, but the joker never shows signs of redemption and the bat spares him anyway
I think Matt reaves “The Batman” joker is gonna bring that feeling back I think they’ll bring him in the 3rd or 4th film but I think they’ll be planting the seed with the Arkham series
I find it ironic that the clowns last 2 cinematic outings are somewhat polar opposites with the sympathetic joker (JOKER) existing without a Batman projecting onto society instead while the joker who we know nothing about and have no sympathy for is intimately tied to the Batman treating his relationship with him like something so intimate (in his deleted scene) just funny to look at ain’t it Also loving the videos keep up the good work ❣️
Great video! It sounds a lot like the un-understandable monster you're describing is Michael Myers, which is awesome. Even better that you call him Gotham's Boogeyman.
Exactly! I hope Matt Reeves treats joker... Like a Chaotic Dragon Breaking each link of his chains, building upon himself to emerge as not an agent of Chaos....but Chaos Itself.
I think my ideal Joker would be one who is defined by one word: Mystery. He mocks any attempt to get to the "truth" of him. Any attempt to dig into his background turns up zip. He does the evil he does because everything is a joke to him. Maybe there's some humanity to him, but it's a tiny diamond amidst a sea of sand. And that diamond of humanity is just another party favor Joker carries in his bag of deadly tricks and lethal gags to share with the rest of the class. What I'm saying is, if we're going to keep getting bludgeoned with Sympathetic Joker, we should push for other Batman rogues to get the spotlight instead, especially ones who have been left to collect dust for a while.
The thing I liked about Health Ledger’s Joker was he had no origin. We have no idea where he came from and that to me made him the scariest. As Billy Loomis says “It’s a lot scarier when there’s no motive.”
We dont have a concrete idea sure, but its heavily hinted that he was a black ops type who felt betrayed, and became nihilistic and later obsessed with batman.
My favorite Joker has always been Scott Snyder’s Joker. He’s like Leatherface but very loving towards Batman and their relationship. He’s always scared me, especially the scene at the police station.
This is my problem when writing villains. I want the backstory to be so detailed, so understandable, that they're not menacing anymore. They end up becoming your regular anti-hero or villain with a heart of gold. Happened three times already, so I decided to keep my villains story as vague as possible so I don't change them
If you don't mind me giving you some advice on how to write an unsympathetic villain with a detailed backstory, I'm going to use a Villain that has no sympathy and not an anti-hero: This character already had a problem with a certain group of people because of heavy technology. Then, one of these people he suspected because of his race ended uo being "evil" he gladly took the threat out. This cemented his belief that the other person because of her race=evil. It's also revealed that the villain saw another attempt at handling a problem with force from the very enemy he didn't trust in the first place. To me, he didn't come off as an anti-hero but a threatening , terrifying guy.
The problem you then face is that the characters motivations and desires may become bland or boring. Evil for the sake of evil, the way jokers character makes it more interesting and intriguing because he’s personification of pure chaos. I’d have to disagree that giving an evil villain a backstory, despite it being tragic despite it being relatable. Doesn’t always simply turn them into an anti-hero with a heart of gold. You can still create a terrifying and daunting villain with a somewhat relatable or tragic backstory. But the way you present it and the way it’s done, to keep the fear of the unknown the unexplainable. The why, you show don’t tell until the moment is just right. The pay off. When it comes to the joker, their story, comics in general don’t have an ending. He doesn’t exactly have a journey alongside the hero, he doesn’t develop as a character. And so the jokers character remains stagnant, sometimes with development. But it all falls back into his already conceived mold.
I'm a bit split on this one. On one hand, I do agree. The terrifyng nature of joker is that he is very unpredictable and smiling from ear to ear while others suffer. That is by all means a trait of villians as well, the ultimate selfishness at the cost of others. However, in my personal opinion, I do like the fact the Joker was a human once. Not because I feel sorry for him, not because I feel he needs to be reedemed... it's because he lost his humanity. After a single bad day, Batman was born, the peak of humanity and in the other other bad day, the Joker, the lowest of the low was born as well. The scary part, to me, about the Joker is that while Batman proves anyone can be a hero, Joker proves anyone can become a monster just as easily. I mean... he grew so num to his trauma he reinvents it every day, just to mess around with the world. I love it, because it makes the Joker both a perfect contrast to Batman and increases the fear factor. Because by seeing that Joker was once a man, we can ask ourselves "Will I turn into him? Will I become a monster".
If Matt Reeves chooses to based he’s Joker around the one in the Arkham Asylum comic that would be AWESOME, like I’ve been having an idea of how this Barry Keoghan Joker could be madly in "love" with Batman, like just obsessed to the point of being psychotic , hope this rant makes sense to you all 😅
I completely agree, I think something that could be a fresh take on it too is a Joker that is all this, but one that isn't funny. Not to us, or anyone, but he makes himself laugh, and with an almost eldritch grotesque kind of laugh too, one that is just long and powerful enough to make us disturbed, uncomfortable, puzzled, and ultimately realize that even as sick as he is, his sense of humor isnt even on a level we can understand, if it even can be understood. Like an inverse of Arthur Fleck's laugh mixed with an even more distorted sense of Jack Nicholson's Jokers laugh/mannerisms but a lot more indecipherable, always catching the audience off guard, and alerting Gotham that the demon clown is somewhere, laughing, at something or someone, and for God knows what reason, if any...
Out of all the UA-camrs, comic book and Batman fans I have met and watched, I think you are the one who gets Batman and his rogues gallery the most. Your video on Batman's no killing rule, your analysis of Clayface, your viewpoint on Jason, and now this video essay only confirm it for me more and more. I can't wait to watch your Jason fan film and as a Batman fan, I hope that one day you get to tell your Batman story on the big screen, if you have one. Thanks for helping me understand why I love these icons of justice, horror and everything in between.
I agree...mostly. The Joker is fascinating for the reason he is evil itself, his origins unknown, the absolute rival to Batman. However things like Joker and The Killing Joke where he's given humanity are interesting thought explorations BUT they should not be common interpretations.
Also joker's original origins of him being made from acid The Batman indirectly/directly creating him as the criminal indirectly/directly created The Batman is way more interesting than making joker's origins look like he was a victim in the movie is disrespect to humanity itself(which is nothing new but still) more than people loving the movie people supported the violent actions if the movie was made by presenting a normal man and joker then it would have got way less views and the same people who praise it would actually call it boring presenting joker as an anti hero is itself is wrong it suits to Harley Quinn to be called as hero cause she is a victim.
There was a reason I fell in love with this clown when I was 4 years old AFTER I stopped being afraid of him. The theatrics, the genius plans, the persona, the style, the green hair, the red lips, the purple suit, the jokes, the *"I'm doing this because I want to and also want to mess with Batman"* attitude! Pretty much everything in his character that made me go *"Wow! I like him!".* I always saw him as the darkest side of ourselves, the side that we all probably have deep, veeeeery deep, inside of us that can come to the surface if we just snap that day. But I never saw him as a victim, just like I don't see Harley as one but that's a topic for another time. He is just a monster that can't be fixed and doesn't want to and we should be ok with that. That's why most of us love him, because he is *"simple"* not something that society created. I agree with someone that said he is a villain just to be a villain. Also having him know that what he does is bad makes him more scary in my eyes. He is doing what he is doing, he knows what he is doing because he just can. Evil is just Evil.
My favorite Joker besides TDK's Joker is the Gotham TV Series's "Joker" (Jerome version). His reasoning into madness is not fleshed out much and he's kinda the one insane Batman's enemy that can do the unthinkable when the others can't. To be fair, I think Jerome is highly influenced by TDK's Joker, that's why it's good. Then it turned really weird when Jeremiah replaced him later in the series and gave him a whole origin for being the new 'Mr. J'.
As a life long DC fan, I can honestly say I am in no way bored of Joker. I think people are getting burnt out and confused by the varied amount of takes on this iconic character. Not all to the same quality to be sure
Thank you, Alex. This needed to be addressed. There are far too many people idolizing, sympathizing, and defending The Joker’s motives and actions. He’s a fantastic character that has been perverted by an online community that uses him and Todd Phillips’s film as a disgusting mask of their own. Thus changing the entire zeitgeist around him.
There was a comic I read once where two Arkham guards were discussing a file one of them found that exposes the Joker is, in fact, sane and the head of a massive crime syndicate with himself acting as the distraction for his real operation. The doctor wrote that she was terrified, knowing exactly how intelligent the Joker is and how he understands psychology better than she or her superiors ever could; even providing proof that her discovery was true. The 2nd guard demands to know why this hasn't been used as evidence in court so they could finally give the clown the electric chair, then the 1rst guard shows him the name of the Doctor: Harleen Quinzel. The implication is that Joker revealed to her what was beneath his smiling facade just to watch her squirm and when she tried to expose what she learned, he destroyed her credibility, her sanity, and her independence then remade the one person that could threaten him into his loyal little pet. The implications were terrifying to me.
I agree with your statement on how the Joker was scarier when we didn't know anything about him because when I played the Arkham games for the first time as a kid, I was horrified by the Joker and his actions just to break my favorite hero Batman, bring him to his level and I remembered my dad buying "The Dark Knight" on DVD to watch this one time and on the front cover was the Joker and I refused to watch the movie because just how much the clown prince of crime scared me, how he was looking at me (I did watch the movie eventually 10/10) but yeah I guess now a days I may be numb to seeing him like how you said in this video and I would like the idea for writers for future Batman films to explore other villains from Batman's rogue gallery, not because the Joker isn't interesting anymore, there's just too much of him, let the other villains shine and if the writers choice to explore the tragic and heart breaking stories of other iconic villains from Gatham it would divert the audiences attention and then BAM the Joker could catch as off guard, I dunno that would be interesting Edit: (what I meant in terms of like the fifth or sixth Batman film or something, the Joker appears
I have a deep irrational hatred for the joker as a character, in every Batman thing he’s in I just want him to put out the joker and every other criminal he faces.
This was awesome. I hope the powers that he will take this to heart. You are absolutely correct. I never thought of this but it’s true; Joker’s value is in the inexplicable, unforgivable mystery, not some sympathetic sob story.
Brilliant video, man! I love when villains are left in the dark, not fully filled in or without a specific origin to point at. Mystery is intriguing and even scary, and giving Joker a solid place he stems from takes that away. I really appreciate your videos, their so unique to you and your channel and I support it!
Loved the shoutout to Grant Morrisons Joker. One of my favorite takes on Joker is Scott Snyders New 52 run. His actions in Death Of The Family and Endgame is truly demented, unpredictable, and dangerous, striking a more personal nerve with the Wayne family, with the uncomfortable implication that he is The Pale Man, the city's eternal bogeyman. Is he a mad man pretending to be an immortal monster, or an immortal monster pretending to be a mad man?
Personally, I think the Joker works best when he is an incomprehensible force of nature, that's why Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight is my favourite version ever, because he's "not looking for anything logical", he "can't be bullied, bought, reason or negotiated with"
I agree with your statement.We need more joker stories like yours! Now personally I do prefer more of the sympathetic joker but I think if we need a good joker story then we indeed need the joker to be not a victim but a real life monster!
Honestly the joker seen in The Batman movie has potential to be great. Imagine if he never escapes Arkham until the final movie, he just spends the rest of the time manipulating others from his cell, making it so Batman has to come to HIM for help because he enjoys their interactions. Make him the monster that Batman fears beyond all other
"I don't think The Joker is the problem, we are," should be a line in one of the movies. It really has potential to explore how society creates their own enemies.
Ayo, Alex great video! I am not suprised tho. But i have a question for you. Considering you are making a jason movie. That obviously means you have your own interpretation on the character. So how do you feel about interpretation that completly contradict yours? Like now that you have your jason do you think you can enjoy one that is everything yours isnt?
I always had an idea for a Batman v Joker story where it's Batman starting out and hasn't made a name for himself yet, and is out cleaning up the gangs and the odd member of the rogue's gallery here and there. But, as he is making his way in this streets of Gothem, something else is too. As criminals are fearing the Bat, they seem to be afraid of another thing too, something even scarier than the Bat. And Batman, wanting to capitalize on fear as another tool in his arsenal, is keen on figuring out this other thing that everyone is becoming afraid of. All he can work with is the colors purple and green, haunting laughter, and a sadistic smile in the middle of chaotic evil incarnate. But the Joker never shows up, only teased at, until the very end of the story with the final confrontation where we see the Joker pleasantly surprised that the Batman was able to find him.
The Joaquin Phoenix version of Joker is an alternate version, a very interesting, very well done version from a great film, don't see him as a main version of the character
My favorite description of the Joker is from Underworld Unleashed Issue #1. "The Joker is the monster criminals talk about when they want to scare other monsters." There may not actually be three Jokers, but I once described him using three examples. "The Joker is like a mixture of Hannibal Lecter, Freddy Kruger and John Doe from Se7en." The Joker movie should've been an R-rated story told from the cops perspective. Take Batman out of the equation entirely and make the movie a story of Jim Gordon trying to stop this deranged serial killer. No plan to blow up Gotham or something that extravagant. Just a hunt for a purely evil monster terrorizing the city in a more personal way. One Joker moment that truly unnerved me was in "The Dark Knight Returns Part II" when the Joker walks through a theme park killing everyone he comes across. No rhyme or reason at all, he just kills anyone unlucky enough to be in his way. That is terrifying.
Hmm I agree that the Joker should be feared, that's how he works best and that's ESPECIALLY why many older stories used to make him vulnerable. Because it was the unthinkable, and it was great. It was taking the crazy, frightening arch nemesis and making him... human? That's sweet and terrifying almost as much as the Joker is! I'd love to see a story where Joker truly is a frightening, scary villain, yet have him and Batman hug at the end. That would be beautiful, and the embodiment of the perfect version of both of The Joker's world.
I've always liked the theory that Joker isn't even insane... he's just pure fucking evil and uses "drama" to make the crimes more entertaining for himself.
It reminds me of the saying that prays that the Devil's biggest feat was to deceiveing mankind to believe he does not exists. A new story of a pure evil Joker that tricks others into falling for his charisma like the penguin on batman returns would be great and would also make more sense in this modern world filled with confidence people scamming others with the same amount of charisma for their own benefit.
I Agree with this Video,The Joker is the Best Villain in Comic Book History and For Good Reason,Like Michael Myers,Freddy Kruger,and Chunky,He’s Pure Evil that You aren’t Supposed to Understand but To Fear Him, He’s the Worst of Human Nature,a Monster with No History but a Mystery that He picks Multiple Choice,and it’s the Colorful Chaos that Reflects Gotham and the World that’s the Complete Opposite to Batman’s Order and Fight for the Good of Humanity that Still Lives,I’m Getting Tired of Evil Villains having Redemption or Sympathetic Traits nowadays,it’s Avoiding the Truth that Corruption is Still Alive in Our World.
This might be why I love Jack Nicholson's Joker the most. Aside from the fact he's actually funny, he's the one that felt the most terrifying and unpredictable. This is the same Joker who killed a bunch of people with poison gas, then danced to Prince and vandalized an art museum. Pure Joker to me.
I saw this recently on a YT short saying the Joker was a "Broken" villain... he is pure evil, pure Chaos. He is Choas and Batman is Order. One has reasons, a mission, a code. The other has nothing but a smile a world to burn
I think Arkham series captures the meaning of Joker’s evil very well. He thinks that being most evil villain ever will make him meaningful, that the more pain he inflict upon the others, the more they remember him. He believes that his crimes will leave him in people’s minds forever, but in Arkham Knight he faces the harsh truth -nobody actually cares. By the end of the day the only thing that will be remembered about the Joker, if anything will be remembered at all, is that he was evil. While other villains, despite how heinous they might be, still a human beings with story and motivations behind them, Joker cuts himself from that. He thinks being evil for the sake of evil will make him special, but it only rubes him from legacy he could’ve had. That’s why he clings to Batman. Because Batman actually stands for something and that’s why he will be remembered through decades. Joker only worth something as long as he fights Batman, but it can’t last forever. That’s why he wanted Batman to kill him, to leave an impact on hero of the city and immortalise his name as the villain who beat the Batman. But he will never have it, because Batman always have something to hold onto and he always could exist without the Joker. Joker is a parasite to Batman.
This why Heaths joker is the best ... He & TDK team understood joker doesn't have a story and makes it as he goes, and he's just evil and chaotic and wanted to prove to batman he's just like him. NOLAN AND HIS TEAM WERE GENIUS !!!!!
What is your favorite take on The Joker? Thank you all for the love and support. ❣
Ledger is the obvious answer so imma say Jerome from Gotham
Mark Hamill is my fave, if going live action Jack Nicholson.
Mark Hamill and Heath Ledger
Death of the Family. It’s a great design, Scott Snyder really gave a unique take on the character.
@DRealSlipstreamzHeath but yes
Joker is literal proof that sometimes it’s okay for a Villain to just be a villan.
Even palpatine was born bad evil from beginning before join sith
Couldn't have put it better.
Ahh,read the darth Plageuis novel?
True but I kinda miss when he was also really silly, like in the 60’s Batman Show
@@birdcar7808 he should always be both
I think the thing people always miss in Killing Joke is, the Joker is wrong, he was trying to prove the whole one bad day thing by torturing Gordon but that doesn't work and Gordon still wants him brought in the right way even after what happened to Barbara and the torture he went through. Batman's the same he's gone through pretty damn bad days multiple times and he still didn't turn into a serial killer.
Batman: "So good people DON'T Crack, maybe it's just YOU 🃏"
@@greg403 To be fair, Gordon's daughter survived, while the Joker's wife and unborn child did not.
@@williamfinch9858 I mean in all fairness, literally the only person you can blame that on is the joker. He could have killed her if he wanted to. It's not as if she survived through happenstance and that's why gordon didn't crack and jokers plan miraculously didn't work. Joker executed his own plan perfectly, the only caveat being that Gordon's character was too strong.
From my point of view, even if the Joker does have a tragic backstory, it doesn't really matter, because the sins he's committed, the suffering and death he's caused, and the lack of remorse and repentance he's shown since then have far exceeded whatever may have happened to him. Someone driven to crime by trauma can only play the victim for so long and to such an extent before they forfeit whatever sympathy they may have initially deserved, and the Joker has gone FAR beyond that point. Wether he was a victim originally or not, he certainly is not one now.
also alan moore himself confirmed that batman didn't kill the joker
The thing that saves the Arthur Fleck version of the Joker, for me, is the end where it turns out a significant amount of the movie was all in his head. That, for me, was a visualization of the 'multiple choice backstory' thing, and I really enjoyed that twist.
Wait, did the movie not actually happen?
@@ammagon4519 The movie did happen, and it didn’t happen, whichever parts you want to believe happened, happened ;)
But not Evil. That's someone with a severe mental issue. Put it in that light Batman is a bully hurting this poor man. However, the Joker relentlessly kills other with no compassion. It paints a monster as the victim.
The ending is open to interpretation. All we know is that he was talking to the psychiatrist, but from a meta point of view, we'll never know how much of what we just saw was told. It could be parts, it could be everything.
My problem comes from the fact that there's a second movie coming in, with Harley. So this one is happening in real life. Will this prove that everything in the first one was real, or is he gonna reveal his true nature as described in this video ? I don't really see the latter happening to be honest, not if they want the story to be compelling without Batman.
@@MasterChakra7 yeah I'm surprised there was even a 2nd movie, I didn't see Joker 2019 as a comic book film, but rather an absolute thriller and a look through someone's mind, so bringing in comic book stuff like Harley would be arguable...
I think a lot of the problems with the Joker is that a lot of stories involving him treat him the same reverence he treats himself with, when in reality he’s weak, pathetic, and wrong. In The Killing Joke, he’s wrong about it only taking one bad day, in The Dark Knight he’s wrong about the people on the boat killing each other to survive. He thinks him and batman are two sides of the same coin, that neither could live without the other, but he’s wrong. Batman has a rogues gallery that goes far beyond just the joker, and more importantly batman has a family that he loves and that love him. The joker only has batman, he is nothing without batman, but batman has plenty without the joker. Too many stories treat joker like he’s correct about society and how the world works, but he isn’t, and thats why he’s the villain and batman is the hero. He isn’t batman’s equal, and they aren’t two sides of the same coin, but he needs to think they are in order to justify his own existence. He’s the polar opposite of batman, he’s the definition of someone who stared into the abyss and blinked. Where he was broken by the hardships of life, and couldn’t take what he viewed to be meaningless, batman knew he could try to make the world a better place. Monsters aren’t made by one bad day, monsters are made by weak men like him. Its why the Killing Joke is my favorite Joker story, it absolutely tears down everyone he believes in and thinks about himself, while strengthening Batman’s character. BTAS Joker and Arkham Joker are fantastic versions of the character, along with the stories I mentioned earlier, they show him as pathetic, but still make him a threat. That shows how good the writing in those stories is.
I wish this comment was pinned.
It's insane how much the Killing Joke's main thesis, as you said, that it doesn't take one bad day, is completely missed by a lot of fans. Jim Gordon doesn't crack. Hell, Batman is by most definitions "crazy" and dealing with his trauma unhealthy, but he never uses that as an excuse to become a sadist.
Funny enough, Watchmen's Rorschach (another Alan Moore story) is lauded as being this unmitigated bad ass and paragon of virtue when Moore himself tried heavily to portray him as toxic as fuck.
One of my fav Joker momments is in the DC Expanded Universe cartoon where he drives a whole town insane by manipulating a psychic child who drives people mad around her by saying she does not drive him mad because he is already mad but then at the end it is revealed he was just using a device to supress her mental powers and soon as Batman removes it Joker goes insane and I mean proper insane.
Biggest joke Joker ever pulled on the world was convicing others he is above human.
Well, he's not exactly proven wrong, just that it maybe wasn't bad enough. It's possible that most people, if not everyone, will break under enough torture. We all have our physical and psychological limits.
The bigger question is why does that matter? Why should we care so much about having limits? Joker seemingly is pushing people to these limits to prove something, but does it really matter? Many of us are always trying to improve, and do the best we can. Does having limits really devalue the effort we put in now?
Also he's not completely wrong in the dark Knight. He says his main plan was Harvey Dent, which worked. And Bane reveals what Harvey Dent did. I guess it didn't destroy the city because their lie worked, but the people did find out.
Exactly. This is why I hate injustice. Not only was it written poorly,but it completely missed the point of the killing joke. No matter how hard joker tries to corrupt and hurt batman and Gordon,they won't budge. They stick by their code no matter and although it may not be the most healthy atleast they try to improve both the world and themselves. Joker can't do that. He's stuck in a cycle and I think Arkham Knight portrayed his biggest fear brilliantly
One of Joker’s main reasons why he is such an interesting villain, is how he’s the complete opposite of Batman. Giving him a sympathetic backstory, takes away from that natural feeling of complete opposites.
I disagree. I think it shows how differently Joker reacts to loss compared to Batman. Joker let it make him become a monster, Batman became the Dark Knight.
Them both suffering loss and reacting differently makes them perfect enemies
Not true at all. The Killing Joke is arguably the greatest Batman comic of all time for a reason.
they're not complete opposites... it would seem like it but throughout their feuds in comics, movies and games (especially the arkham games)... they are just as insane as each other and they'll never stop fighting even if batman kills joker although i dont agree that batman will kill more and more and make him just as bad as the joker because in that's the case then why is batman considered a 'superhero' - batman is more like an antihero than anything else... so many ppl point to how batman will become the 'Batman who laughs' but in that story, batman gets infected by the jokers gas and that's it... they could've made it so that the joker gas revealed batmans true intentions which is to kill but they didn't... the only one that does this is in Arkham Knight, batman at one point in Arkham Knight told penguin (as he's taking him to GCPD) that he's going to kill him since he doesn't feel right or something like that... now that is what 'Batman who laughs' shouldve done
No
Ain't no way he got Adam and Eve as a sponsor on a joker video, more power to you Alex
I was so hyped that it was real. Actually one of the best sponsors on UA-cam.
It reminds me of that meme where Joker is freaking out and the only thing he can say is
"HARLEY HAS TEETH"
Exactly lmao Adam and Eve at least it's not Nord what ever it's called I give this dude respect lmao
The Joker would be proud.
I wouldn't accept the sponsorship even if they gave one millon dollars
My favorite part of Killing Joke is the multiple choice line because it makes Joker even scarier. The possibility of madness not being explained is horrifying. He’s not some dude we should feel sorry for. He’s an irredeemable monster, period.
Also while we’re on the subject, Mark Hamill is the definitive Joker. Forever the goat!
I never understand people who criticize Killing Joke because it gave Joker an origin and that "the origin should be at multiples choices" while this was Bill Finger who gave the basics of Joker’s origins (Red Hood, Robbing, Chemical bath, etc…) and that it was Alan Moore who created the multiple choices.
I disagree, i think the tragedy aspect in the Joker is pretty interesting
just like batman he had a big tragedy in his life, but different to Batman, he decided to treat everything as big joke
@@passarovoador6662 oh I agree that the tragedy is interesting. But it’s why Batman and Joker are perfect opposites. They went on different paths, and it’s why we shouldn’t feel sorry for the joker. We all go through shit and life hits us all hard sometimes, but that doesn’t mean we become deranged, murderous monsters lol
@@AlexLove631 Yeah, but i think that's kinda the part of the terror of the Joker
He someday was just a guy, how the f did he end up like this? if someone decided to act like him and treat life as a big joke, could someone end up like him? And that fear of how corruptible a human being could be scares the living shit out of everyone
And also could be used by the Joker to fuck with someone even more, he was human, is there a bit of humanity left in him? i don't think his humanity should be apparent to everyone or that he should be hyper relatable, but i like to think he has still a bit of humanity inside of him, and that's one of the greatest things in Killing Joke, he might have humanity but you can't just see through The Joker, you need to try understand the Joker and you need to him want you to understand him and even so, that's highly unlikely
I think it should be and normally is more nuanced than just "Oh, poor guy" when "feeling sorry" for the joker or something like it, it's deeper than that
And there is no way to "cure" him because nobody knows what is even his "problem".
Sadly, most writters and fans decided to IGNORE that line.
If anything about the Joker sticks in my mind, it's the fact that Scarecrow's fear gas does nothing to him. For the nemesis of a man that personifies fear, that speaks volumes.
Except in Arkham Knight when the fear toxin destroys the joker
Wholeheartedly agree with this take. Joker is terrifying because he is comfortable in his own madness. He doesn’t want anyone’s sympathy, because he doesn’t belong anywhere or to anyone. And he revels in it. It’s so far from what makes us human, that it makes him endlessly captivating.
The only true way to explain the joker is pure chaos which IMO is much scarier than pure evil. We understand evil we’re used to pure evil villains but someone like joker is the kind of character that even evil characters avoid because he’s impossible for normal people to understand. I think it was Dennis O’Neal who said something like “joker would spare your life one day just because he liked your shoes then the next day kill somebody else just because he liked their shoes.”
This is a very well written comment
This is exactly why I wasn't a fan of Joaquin's Joker. He was the victim. The world hurt him. That's not how the Joker operates. It's also why, (*hot take ahead*) I enjoyed Leto's Joker. Because he was exactly as you said, comfortable in his madness.
@@alphamega1811 I think In Todd Phillip's Joker, Arthur was supposed to be the mask he wore to society. In the bathroom dance scene we see him starting to embrace his madness and getting comfortable with it. He's taking off that mask, and becoming who he truly is.
@@JokerFan-hj4iv lmao joker is not chaos. He is pure "evil", chaos, aka randomness, encaptures both good and "evil", if joker was chaos, he'd be equally good and evil, randomly doing all kinds of things, both helpful and destructive. Thats the nature of chaos.
Cesar Romero is the most underrated Joker, his theatrical charisma, and goofy madness is so delightful to watch. Not to mention with every adaptation, trying, harder and harder to be dark and gritty, Caesars more “mad cap” version is a breath of fresh air.
i really hope we get another joker like romero's one day
@@Bentons-Crib Me too, hopefully if Gunn introduces a DCU version, he'll be like Romero's
Also Jack Nicholson
I liked Heath,and I think his version is where the fine line is. That line being where Joker is a little too serious,and a little too dark and gritty.
I've always thought a madcap goofball doing all the dark and gritty stuff would be scariest of them all; but so hard to pull off onscreen. Imagine Ledger's story but with Romero in the role.
I think the type of Joker that I personally like the most, is the Dark Knight Joker; you understand where he's coming from in being chaos incarnate, you understand his role in the story, but you can't ever condone his actions. Batman the Animated Series had the best joker though-he isn't sympathetic, he's just a villain and it's OKAY for someone to just be a villain after having one...bad....day.
TAS Joker had a bad day but he was always evil before the bad day too
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 well sht maybe I need to do a rewatch cause I can't remember his past before being Joker in that show 😅
@@TheRibottoStudios if I remember correctly there was a scene in the Phantasm movie that showed he was a hit man for the mob
I don’t know I’ve seen people legitimately claim the Joker was right. Hard to tell if they’re just screwing around or are legitimately serious. It’s like the people who idealize Rorschach from Watchmen.
@@Random_Person.-. It wasnt in the mask of phantasms, it was in "the creeper" episode of season 3
*"Ordinary people don't crack. Maybe it's just you"*
BATMAN HAS THE BEST ROGUES IN ALL OF COMICS YET WE KEEP GETTING THE JOKER
While my favorite, Scarecrow, keeps getting done dirty, though I did enjoy Cillian Murphy's portrayal in Batman Begins. Instead of a Joker sequel, can we get a Scarecrow movie?
@@williamerickson520 i think we are getting clayface which ngl is kinda exciting
@@ayushghosh5855tbf I love a good joker, the last one was Jared’s and ye I can see why ppl hate the character. Hopefully we get a good one in the 3rd film if they make it
Joker’s backstory being “multiple choice” is great because you can interpret him however you like. He’s mysterious. Giving him these “what if” origin stories is a fun thing to play around with, because he obviously comes from somewhere. The theories of Ledger’s Joker being ex-military is really interesting. But his origin can also just be unknown, and he works perfectly just like that. I think that’s a testament to how great of a character Joker is. Even with the absence of depth, he’s still incredibly compelling.
Joker is one of the only characters that doesn't need depth
I love how Jason Todd’s “you’re not nearly as crazy as you’d like us all to believe” monologue to The Joker, along with The Joker’s reaction showing that The Joker is fully aware of every evil deed he has ever done.
I also enjoy stories where The Joker believes that Batman has died, so he ends up in a comatose state or becomes “normal”, like his mental state only exists to achieve a single goal.
Some might think this is contradictory but I’d argue that these two things can work together, Batman is The Joker’s obsession and the man behind The Joker is fully complicit to every evil deed done in pursuit of this obsession.
YES i love that scene so much, both for Joker and for Jason himself
That’s actually the reason I love the Arkham Series version of Mister J. You don’t really get the full sense of his background. Sure, you get him falling into the chemicals at Ace Chemicals in Origins, but that’s it. He’s insane, for the heck of it. He doesn’t give a single crap about the pain and torment he causes. I’d almost argue that Arkham’s Joker one of the best iterations of him. To me, he’s legitimately terrifying.
The Arkham Joker is a strong contender in my book for the most evil character in all of fiction. Two others on my list are The Major from Hellsing and Kefka from Final Fantasy.
"I don't want to fix the Joker" *proceeds to tell you how to fix the Joker
I think joker starts off as a victim but falls so far there is no excuse to his madness. A good example is making the killing joke his origin.
Although I agree for comic accurate Joker, I absolutely love Joaquin Phoenix’s very different take on the character. It worked tremendously and made for a fantastic film
I think the title says it all. Arthur Fleck isn’t THE joker. He’s ‘joker’. He’s a shadow, a reflection, a step on the path. The joker is just as much a symbol as Batman- whoever first put on that makeup is long gone.
It's a great film, but it's not a Joker film. It's a film about society and mental illness that used the Joker name to get a big budget.
@@tompollockjr144 and it works brilliantly. I don’t see the issue with having a very different take on a character
@@Xpertfusion it's a good movie, no doubt, but not a good Joker portrayal. When talking about the character specifically, there's a big difference. Personally I don't think Ledger is a good portrayal either. Great actor, extraordinarily entertaining in the role, but also NOT the Joker. He's more of a punk - anarchist than the clown prince of crime.
@@tompollockjr144 yeah but I think that’s fine. I don’t want every portrayal to be the same
I feel like the part of Joker that’s been underserved for a long time has been the prankster element. The part that is evocative of a clown. The idea that he’s an entertainer putting on a show for just for the laughs.
Side note the reason I love that Nolan and many other artists don’t give the joker a backstory is because His backstory is so gruesome and messed up that even the joker doesn’t remember exactly what happened. Like he suppressed those memories and so when somebody asks him he just makes up a new story. Anyone else feel that way?
Yes I agree, and that’s the most realistic thing…
nah you're missing the point by assuming he has a super sad and horrible backstory for the way he is. the point is we don't know. and that it very well could be that just wanted to be evil cause it's fun.
@@DigitalHeliumJumper exactly, I feel like he switches and makes up his backstory on the spot based on his victim’s fears, like when he talks about his wife with Rachel or almost rehashes the father story on the old man, it’s to make it seem more personal between him and his victims.
There’s a character in the comics called Alexis Kaye, eventually Punchline, who made a podcast about how the Joker is sympathetic and is trying to spread a “deep” message, and wow, did that ages well.
Giving the Joker an origin story would turn out like the Rob Zombie Halloween movies where Michael Myers doesn’t kill because he’s a psychopath or the incarnate of evil but because he had a troubled childhood, taking away his unique motive that he has none. He’s scary because he kills because he can. No reasoning or task, he just does.
He's not a victim, he once was but now he's just a monster, truly the worst from humanity, His backstory is one of the best best stories I've ever read but I would've killed myself before I let myself become something truly horrible
I feel like I've been saved this kind of misunderstanding by the episode Mad Love, cause Harley is pretty much the modern audience in that situation, someone who thinks they see past the act of Joker and see his inner humanity, but the reality is shown by Batman who's fought him for years that there's nothing but darkness behind the clown no matter how many faces he puts on there's only ever been an unknowable evil as the constant.
Though of course that might not always be the case across continuities, just like in more extreme elseworlds some Jokers can be a lot more simpler than the mainline counterpart who really is this dark anomaly. White Knight for instance proposes there being a simpler split personality between the Joker and Jack Napier, it works for the story they were telling, but the heart of Joker should be that unknowable evil.
I love how Scott Snyder played with the evil incarnate boogeyman idea throughout his run. It’s terrifying.
Thank you for this video, the Joker is pure evil and shouldn't be cheered or considered a "literally me" character at all.
Love the Monaghan nods! Always felt that performance was underrated.
I read joker this way:
Batman is the best of us. He has unending willpower and commitment. He is selfless to a fault. So much so that his mission is self destructive to the physical man.
Joker is the worst of us. He’s completely selfish without one ounce of empathy. He just does stuff he thinks is funny or entertaining or whatever, no matter how cruel and morbid it is.
I watched the fan-film "Batman: Dying is Easy" is there's this one line from the Joker that stayed on my head for a good while "I am completely and genuinely happy, every morning I wake up with a big smile, i absolutely love my life". That's what Joker is, not someone angry with society, or someone sad with his past, he's evil incarnated, he enjoys being evil, he is genuinely happy being evil.
Matt reeves should keep this video in mind while making his joker. That would be so awesome.
Seems he did
I like to think of The Joker as more of an Idea than an actual person. I like when he’s an uncontrollable/unpredictable force of nature, the agent of chaos.
The Joker has a rich history of interpretations and I think we're just in the recently discovered and barely explored "Sympathetic Era" of the character. I'm much more excited to see what comes next!
Loved that you used footage of Jerome and Jeremiah from Gotham, I’ve been asking for a video on those jokers and this is the closest I will get, so thank you
Gotham is such a slept on show and it's characters are so underrated.
“What were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you? You're alone.”
- Christian Bale's Batman
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My favorite detail in the killing joke is every flashback is shown to be a memory (the way the comic cuts to and from them with mirrored imagery and such) to show us this is Joker remembering these events.
Further proving that it is an unreliable backstory. The line before the multiple choice line, “sometimes I remember it one way-“. In multiple lines he’s telling us the backstory is just another story of his
villains with zero context in general, baby >>>>>>>
tdk joker, anton chigurh, lorne malvo, hans landa, terrence fletcher, richard strickland, the judge from blood meridian... all my faves are always inexplicable
id throw hannibal and lalo salamanca in there too
@@tunasub7727 ooooo yeah lalo, great call
@@LoverboyMedia what about Darth Sidious, Darkseid, Sauron?
I’ve always enjoyed the idea that every origin we see of Joker may not be true, since Joker’s the narrator he will twist things all the time, no two stories are ever the same, only one thing connects them.
The Batman
This was incredible man. It’s why I’ve only seen Todd Phillip’s Joker once. Joker should be terrifying. I don’t want to cheer for him. I don’t want to empathize with him. If he scares Batman, he should terrify us. There is no reason to not be afraid. When he shows up, we should be pooping our collective pants. His obsession is with Batman, and a joker without a Batman isn’t the Joker. Thank you for validating how I’ve felt since Joker(2019) was announced.
There are other great villains like Harvey Dent and Victor Fries that deserve our empathy and that’s why they’re my favorites. Joker is in his own lane, and while not my favorite. He challenges Batman in a way his other villains don’t. That’s why Ledger and Hamil are the GOATs.
11/10 video.
This.
Heres the thing u can sympathize with him cause hes telling the interviewer his story manipulating her to let her guard down and manipulating the audience. This is why the train scene works cause u can put urself in his shoes like oh, they were probably gonna beat him to death so self defense but the one he cases and kills in cold blood thats the one ur not meant understand. Hell theres even the hospital scene where he finds out what happened to him as a child and yes he maybe lying to himself and audience but it doesn't mean it doesnt happen so it gets us to sympathize more till he does the unthinkable and smoothers his mother with the pillow. There definitely cracks when joker is telling his story to the audience like when randal says he never gave him the gun etc. Little hints that hes stretching the truth or out flat lying, same for the happy girlfriend thing. Now jokers biggest lie that makes the audience understand and sympathize with him more is his speech at the talk show. Cause everyone has done this to people whether they meant to or not just completely ignore a person/ walk by them like they dont exist, like homeless im sure we've all done it they look down on their luck and we dont know if they are lying to us or not, so we walk on by, drive on by and dont even look in there direction cause people and life are cruel. And jokers sympathy is his greatest tool to get what he wants. Sorry i went on a rant there, what i meant to say is that when first saw the joker i wasnt cheering for him because i felt like he deserved payback, i was stunned and utterly horrified that this monster was making me feel sympathy for him and his actions but also utter horror cause u never know what hes gonna do. The only time i ever cracked a smile was when i saw him take his blood and make smile with it sequence with one of the most beautiful haunting osts ive ever heard. Like this director understands joker and hes didnt give us something he doesnt understand but adores. Alot of people shit on joker 2019 but it really is a really well thought out piece of fiction
Joker is the ultimate counter argument to batman's no kill philosophy, therefore he's the counter to Batman
What I LOVE about your videos is that even when I may disagree, you present your case so well I can't help but hear you out and be transfixed on your thoughts. Fantastic video. Though I do think the Joker film is aiming for the audience to empathize with him, at the end of the day, he still IS evil. I don't mind seeing an interpretation which showcases his backstory, but I totally understand the love for Joker stories where, as you said it, he's simply a devil doing the devil's work.
in my opinion joker makes the batman code to not kill stronger, is easy to show mercy to catwoman or Mr freeze, but the joker never shows signs of redemption and the bat spares him anyway
I think Matt reaves “The Batman” joker is gonna bring that feeling back I think they’ll bring him in the 3rd or 4th film but I think they’ll be planting the seed with the Arkham series
Basically a Michael Myers with Pennywise's sense of humor.
I love this! Sometimes evil is just there. Sometimes it doesn’t have an origin.
I think the Jerome version of the Joker is severely underrated and just as terrifying as Heath Ledger's joker.
I find it ironic that the clowns last 2 cinematic outings are somewhat polar opposites with the sympathetic joker (JOKER) existing without a Batman projecting onto society instead
while the joker who we know nothing about and have no sympathy for is intimately tied to the Batman treating his relationship with him like something so intimate (in his deleted scene) just funny to look at ain’t it
Also loving the videos keep up the good work ❣️
Masterful dissertation sir. U nailed it on the head as to why so many ppl don't truly understand who or what the joker is. And neither does batman.
That's exactly my problem with modern joker. Thanks for soreading the word
Great video! It sounds a lot like the un-understandable monster you're describing is Michael Myers, which is awesome. Even better that you call him Gotham's Boogeyman.
This video explains Alfred’s words in dark knight perfectly, and it’s why Heath Ledgers joker has and always will be my favourite.
Exactly! I hope Matt Reeves treats joker...
Like a Chaotic Dragon Breaking each link of his chains, building upon himself to emerge as not an agent of Chaos....but Chaos Itself.
Thank you. Whatever injustice he suffered in the past can never excuse the endless horrors this guy has committed and laughed at.
You deserve an infinite amount of more recognition. Always some of the better writing I’ve heard. Genuinely believe you’re gonna be a killer director
I think my ideal Joker would be one who is defined by one word: Mystery. He mocks any attempt to get to the "truth" of him. Any attempt to dig into his background turns up zip. He does the evil he does because everything is a joke to him. Maybe there's some humanity to him, but it's a tiny diamond amidst a sea of sand. And that diamond of humanity is just another party favor Joker carries in his bag of deadly tricks and lethal gags to share with the rest of the class.
What I'm saying is, if we're going to keep getting bludgeoned with Sympathetic Joker, we should push for other Batman rogues to get the spotlight instead, especially ones who have been left to collect dust for a while.
The thing I liked about Health Ledger’s Joker was he had no origin. We have no idea where he came from and that to me made him the scariest. As Billy Loomis says “It’s a lot scarier when there’s no motive.”
We dont have a concrete idea sure, but its heavily hinted that he was a black ops type who felt betrayed, and became nihilistic and later obsessed with batman.
My favorite Joker has always been Scott Snyder’s Joker. He’s like Leatherface but very loving towards Batman and their relationship. He’s always scared me, especially the scene at the police station.
This is my problem when writing villains. I want the backstory to be so detailed, so understandable, that they're not menacing anymore. They end up becoming your regular anti-hero or villain with a heart of gold.
Happened three times already, so I decided to keep my villains story as vague as possible so I don't change them
If you don't mind me giving you some advice on how to write an unsympathetic villain with a detailed backstory, I'm going to use a Villain that has no sympathy and not an anti-hero:
This character already had a problem with a certain group of people because of heavy technology. Then, one of these people he suspected because of his race ended uo being "evil" he gladly took the threat out. This cemented his belief that the other person because of her race=evil. It's also revealed that the villain saw another attempt at handling a problem with force from the very enemy he didn't trust in the first place. To me, he didn't come off as an anti-hero but a threatening , terrifying guy.
The problem you then face is that the characters motivations and desires may become bland or boring. Evil for the sake of evil, the way jokers character makes it more interesting and intriguing because he’s personification of pure chaos.
I’d have to disagree that giving an evil villain a backstory, despite it being tragic despite it being relatable. Doesn’t always simply turn them into an anti-hero with a heart of gold. You can still create a terrifying and daunting villain with a somewhat relatable or tragic backstory. But the way you present it and the way it’s done, to keep the fear of the unknown the unexplainable. The why, you show don’t tell until the moment is just right. The pay off.
When it comes to the joker, their story, comics in general don’t have an ending. He doesn’t exactly have a journey alongside the hero, he doesn’t develop as a character. And so the jokers character remains stagnant, sometimes with development. But it all falls back into his already conceived mold.
I'm a bit split on this one. On one hand, I do agree. The terrifyng nature of joker is that he is very unpredictable and smiling from ear to ear while others suffer. That is by all means a trait of villians as well, the ultimate selfishness at the cost of others.
However, in my personal opinion, I do like the fact the Joker was a human once. Not because I feel sorry for him, not because I feel he needs to be reedemed... it's because he lost his humanity. After a single bad day, Batman was born, the peak of humanity and in the other other bad day, the Joker, the lowest of the low was born as well. The scary part, to me, about the Joker is that while Batman proves anyone can be a hero, Joker proves anyone can become a monster just as easily. I mean... he grew so num to his trauma he reinvents it every day, just to mess around with the world. I love it, because it makes the Joker both a perfect contrast to Batman and increases the fear factor. Because by seeing that Joker was once a man, we can ask ourselves "Will I turn into him? Will I become a monster".
If Matt Reeves chooses to based he’s Joker around the one in the Arkham Asylum comic that would be AWESOME, like I’ve been having an idea of how this Barry Keoghan Joker could be madly in "love" with Batman, like just obsessed to the point of being psychotic , hope this rant makes sense to you all 😅
This is exactly what I’ve been saying for years. I’ve been arguing with people online about this. I love this video
I completely agree, I think something that could be a fresh take on it too is a Joker that is all this, but one that isn't funny. Not to us, or anyone, but he makes himself laugh, and with an almost eldritch grotesque kind of laugh too, one that is just long and powerful enough to make us disturbed, uncomfortable, puzzled, and ultimately realize that even as sick as he is, his sense of humor isnt even on a level we can understand, if it even can be understood. Like an inverse of Arthur Fleck's laugh mixed with an even more distorted sense of Jack Nicholson's Jokers laugh/mannerisms but a lot more indecipherable, always catching the audience off guard, and alerting Gotham that the demon clown is somewhere, laughing, at something or someone, and for God knows what reason, if any...
So all star Batman’s joker
@@billyboleson2830 never heard of it, if that joker is close to what I imagine ill check it out
Out of all the UA-camrs, comic book and Batman fans I have met and watched, I think you are the one who gets Batman and his rogues gallery the most. Your video on Batman's no killing rule, your analysis of Clayface, your viewpoint on Jason, and now this video essay only confirm it for me more and more. I can't wait to watch your Jason fan film and as a Batman fan, I hope that one day you get to tell your Batman story on the big screen, if you have one.
Thanks for helping me understand why I love these icons of justice, horror and everything in between.
I agree...mostly. The Joker is fascinating for the reason he is evil itself, his origins unknown, the absolute rival to Batman.
However things like Joker and The Killing Joke where he's given humanity are interesting thought explorations BUT they should not be common interpretations.
Also joker's original origins of him being made from acid The Batman indirectly/directly creating him as the criminal indirectly/directly created The Batman is way more interesting than making joker's origins look like he was a victim in the movie is disrespect to humanity itself(which is nothing new but still) more than people loving the movie people supported the violent actions if the movie was made by presenting a normal man and joker then it would have got way less views and the same people who praise it would actually call it boring presenting joker as an anti hero is itself is wrong it suits to Harley Quinn to be called as hero cause she is a victim.
There was a reason I fell in love with this clown when I was 4 years old AFTER I stopped being afraid of him. The theatrics, the genius plans, the persona, the style, the green hair, the red lips, the purple suit, the jokes, the *"I'm doing this because I want to and also want to mess with Batman"* attitude! Pretty much everything in his character that made me go *"Wow! I like him!".*
I always saw him as the darkest side of ourselves, the side that we all probably have deep, veeeeery deep, inside of us that can come to the surface if we just snap that day. But I never saw him as a victim, just like I don't see Harley as one but that's a topic for another time. He is just a monster that can't be fixed and doesn't want to and we should be ok with that. That's why most of us love him, because he is *"simple"* not something that society created.
I agree with someone that said he is a villain just to be a villain. Also having him know that what he does is bad makes him more scary in my eyes. He is doing what he is doing, he knows what he is doing because he just can.
Evil is just Evil.
i desperately want to fear the joker again. you nailed this alex. awesome video
I really enjoyed the editing for this video, it gives you the feeling of dread.
My favorite Joker besides TDK's Joker is the Gotham TV Series's "Joker" (Jerome version). His reasoning into madness is not fleshed out much and he's kinda the one insane Batman's enemy that can do the unthinkable when the others can't. To be fair, I think Jerome is highly influenced by TDK's Joker, that's why it's good. Then it turned really weird when Jeremiah replaced him later in the series and gave him a whole origin for being the new 'Mr. J'.
As a life long DC fan, I can honestly say I am in no way bored of Joker. I think people are getting burnt out and confused by the varied amount of takes on this iconic character. Not all to the same quality to be sure
Thank you, Alex. This needed to be addressed. There are far too many people idolizing, sympathizing, and defending The Joker’s motives and actions. He’s a fantastic character that has been perverted by an online community that uses him and Todd Phillips’s film as a disgusting mask of their own. Thus changing the entire zeitgeist around him.
There was a comic I read once where two Arkham guards were discussing a file one of them found that exposes the Joker is, in fact, sane and the head of a massive crime syndicate with himself acting as the distraction for his real operation. The doctor wrote that she was terrified, knowing exactly how intelligent the Joker is and how he understands psychology better than she or her superiors ever could; even providing proof that her discovery was true. The 2nd guard demands to know why this hasn't been used as evidence in court so they could finally give the clown the electric chair, then the 1rst guard shows him the name of the Doctor: Harleen Quinzel. The implication is that Joker revealed to her what was beneath his smiling facade just to watch her squirm and when she tried to expose what she learned, he destroyed her credibility, her sanity, and her independence then remade the one person that could threaten him into his loyal little pet. The implications were terrifying to me.
I agree with your statement on how the Joker was scarier when we didn't know anything about him because when I played the Arkham games for the first time as a kid, I was horrified by the Joker and his actions just to break my favorite hero Batman, bring him to his level and I remembered my dad buying "The Dark Knight" on DVD to watch this one time and on the front cover was the Joker and I refused to watch the movie because just how much the clown prince of crime scared me, how he was looking at me (I did watch the movie eventually 10/10) but yeah I guess now a days I may be numb to seeing him like how you said in this video and I would like the idea for writers for future Batman films to explore other villains from Batman's rogue gallery, not because the Joker isn't interesting anymore, there's just too much of him, let the other villains shine and if the writers choice to explore the tragic and heart breaking stories of other iconic villains from Gatham it would divert the audiences attention and then BAM the Joker could catch as off guard, I dunno that would be interesting
Edit: (what I meant in terms of like the fifth or sixth Batman film or something, the Joker appears
I agree
I have a deep irrational hatred for the joker as a character, in every Batman thing he’s in I just want him to put out the joker and every other criminal he faces.
This was awesome. I hope the powers that he will take this to heart. You are absolutely correct. I never thought of this but it’s true; Joker’s value is in the inexplicable, unforgivable mystery, not some sympathetic sob story.
Brilliant video, man! I love when villains are left in the dark, not fully filled in or without a specific origin to point at. Mystery is intriguing and even scary, and giving Joker a solid place he stems from takes that away.
I really appreciate your videos, their so unique to you and your channel and I support it!
There will always be a line where, if crossed, a victim becomes a victimizer
Loved the shoutout to Grant Morrisons Joker. One of my favorite takes on Joker is Scott Snyders New 52 run. His actions in Death Of The Family and Endgame is truly demented, unpredictable, and dangerous, striking a more personal nerve with the Wayne family, with the uncomfortable implication that he is The Pale Man, the city's eternal bogeyman. Is he a mad man pretending to be an immortal monster, or an immortal monster pretending to be a mad man?
Personally, I think the Joker works best when he is an incomprehensible force of nature, that's why Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight is my favourite version ever, because he's "not looking for anything logical", he "can't be bullied, bought, reason or negotiated with"
I agree with your statement.We need more joker stories like yours! Now personally I do prefer more of the sympathetic joker but I think if we need a good joker story then we indeed need the joker to be not a victim but a real life monster!
Honestly the joker seen in The Batman movie has potential to be great. Imagine if he never escapes Arkham until the final movie, he just spends the rest of the time manipulating others from his cell, making it so Batman has to come to HIM for help because he enjoys their interactions. Make him the monster that Batman fears beyond all other
"I don't think The Joker is the problem, we are," should be a line in one of the movies. It really has potential to explore how society creates their own enemies.
Ayo, Alex great video! I am not suprised tho.
But i have a question for you. Considering you are making a jason movie.
That obviously means you have your own interpretation on the character.
So how do you feel about interpretation that completly contradict yours?
Like now that you have your jason do you think you can enjoy one that is everything yours isnt?
I always had an idea for a Batman v Joker story where it's Batman starting out and hasn't made a name for himself yet, and is out cleaning up the gangs and the odd member of the rogue's gallery here and there. But, as he is making his way in this streets of Gothem, something else is too. As criminals are fearing the Bat, they seem to be afraid of another thing too, something even scarier than the Bat. And Batman, wanting to capitalize on fear as another tool in his arsenal, is keen on figuring out this other thing that everyone is becoming afraid of. All he can work with is the colors purple and green, haunting laughter, and a sadistic smile in the middle of chaotic evil incarnate. But the Joker never shows up, only teased at, until the very end of the story with the final confrontation where we see the Joker pleasantly surprised that the Batman was able to find him.
The Joaquin Phoenix version of Joker is an alternate version, a very interesting, very well done version from a great film, don't see him as a main version of the character
8:38 perfectly sums up the joker perfectly
"Creating himself everyday" thing is some what relatable to me
My favorite description of the Joker is from Underworld Unleashed Issue #1.
"The Joker is the monster criminals talk about when they want to scare other monsters."
There may not actually be three Jokers, but I once described him using three examples. "The Joker is like a mixture of Hannibal Lecter, Freddy Kruger and John Doe from Se7en."
The Joker movie should've been an R-rated story told from the cops perspective. Take Batman out of the equation entirely and make the movie a story of Jim Gordon trying to stop this deranged serial killer. No plan to blow up Gotham or something that extravagant. Just a hunt for a purely evil monster terrorizing the city in a more personal way.
One Joker moment that truly unnerved me was in "The Dark Knight Returns Part II" when the Joker walks through a theme park killing everyone he comes across. No rhyme or reason at all, he just kills anyone unlucky enough to be in his way. That is terrifying.
Hmm I agree that the Joker should be feared, that's how he works best and that's ESPECIALLY why many older stories used to make him vulnerable. Because it was the unthinkable, and it was great. It was taking the crazy, frightening arch nemesis and making him... human? That's sweet and terrifying almost as much as the Joker is!
I'd love to see a story where Joker truly is a frightening, scary villain, yet have him and Batman hug at the end. That would be beautiful, and the embodiment of the perfect version of both of The Joker's world.
I've always liked the theory that Joker isn't even insane... he's just pure fucking evil and uses "drama" to make the crimes more entertaining for himself.
What do you think the relationship between is between Darkseid and Joker?
It reminds me of the saying that prays that the Devil's biggest feat was to deceiveing mankind to believe he does not exists. A new story of a pure evil Joker that tricks others into falling for his charisma like the penguin on batman returns would be great and would also make more sense in this modern world filled with confidence people scamming others with the same amount of charisma for their own benefit.
I Agree with this Video,The Joker is the Best Villain in Comic Book History and For Good Reason,Like Michael Myers,Freddy Kruger,and Chunky,He’s Pure Evil that You aren’t Supposed to Understand but To Fear Him, He’s the Worst of Human Nature,a Monster with No History but a Mystery that He picks Multiple Choice,and it’s the Colorful Chaos that Reflects Gotham and the World that’s the Complete Opposite to Batman’s Order and Fight for the Good of Humanity that Still Lives,I’m Getting Tired of Evil Villains having Redemption or Sympathetic Traits nowadays,it’s Avoiding the Truth that Corruption is Still Alive in Our World.
“Victims, aren’t we all”
This might be why I love Jack Nicholson's Joker the most. Aside from the fact he's actually funny, he's the one that felt the most terrifying and unpredictable. This is the same Joker who killed a bunch of people with poison gas, then danced to Prince and vandalized an art museum. Pure Joker to me.
I saw this recently on a YT short saying the Joker was a "Broken" villain... he is pure evil, pure Chaos.
He is Choas and Batman is Order. One has reasons, a mission, a code. The other has nothing but a smile a world to burn
Thank you for this video, I’ve been saying stuff for YEARS that joker should be like a tornado- a force of nature without an origin
I think Arkham series captures the meaning of Joker’s evil very well. He thinks that being most evil villain ever will make him meaningful, that the more pain he inflict upon the others, the more they remember him. He believes that his crimes will leave him in people’s minds forever, but in Arkham Knight he faces the harsh truth -nobody actually cares. By the end of the day the only thing that will be remembered about the Joker, if anything will be remembered at all, is that he was evil. While other villains, despite how heinous they might be, still a human beings with story and motivations behind them, Joker cuts himself from that. He thinks being evil for the sake of evil will make him special, but it only rubes him from legacy he could’ve had. That’s why he clings to Batman. Because Batman actually stands for something and that’s why he will be remembered through decades. Joker only worth something as long as he fights Batman, but it can’t last forever. That’s why he wanted Batman to kill him, to leave an impact on hero of the city and immortalise his name as the villain who beat the Batman. But he will never have it, because Batman always have something to hold onto and he always could exist without the Joker. Joker is a parasite to Batman.
This why Heaths joker is the best ... He & TDK team understood joker doesn't have a story and makes it as he goes, and he's just evil and chaotic and wanted to prove to batman he's just like him. NOLAN AND HIS TEAM WERE GENIUS !!!!!
barry keoghan and matt reeves are gonna bring back the joker we use to know