For sure, James. It was certainly God's grace which led me from many years of a personality driven movement from the 70s where I often found myself at odds with the 'Moses Model' of leadership not once illuded to by ANY New Testement writer. A movement which turned out pastors as a movie theater turns out popcorn. A movement so blended with charismata activity with expository teaching that one might feel as though they have found themself in... ...the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole. A movement wherein people whom you might have never seen, let alone met may claim that they have 'word from the Lord specifically for you. To which you might ask if they recall your name or perhaps even your gender. A movement which is seemingly validated by the the explosion of their population and the musical creativity of their youth. A movement wherein pastors or song writers are given celebrity adulation as though God quit developing unique music immediately after this musical artist was born. A movement where training in languages are nonessential in order to rightly divide the word of a God who graciously preserved all necessary oral tradition that it would be the ABSOLUTE words and narrative to one day be written and included in the cannon of Holy Scripture. A movement where the fear of God was not stressed and respect for God and man were not implamented. A movement without wholesome structure so that many just coming to Christ had no idea of what to do with themselves in the realm of common sense and ending up a vagabond in this temporary realm and not well enough established in clear soteriology and Christian doctrine in order to have assurance of the realm to come. Thus, often obsessed with, what in their mind, is the hopeless term of Job, 'Would that I had never been born'! And a paranoia that the chip and dip sample at the store had not the corona virus left by yet another inconsiderate meat eater no doubt. So you rush off to Urgent Care in order to confirm your condition one way or the other. After you fill out the usual required papers you sit down until your number his called. The man next to you sneezes without covering his mouth. You rise in order to switch seats. As you do, you slightly recognize the man who sneezed. Was it -- could it be -- Yes. It was the leader of your 'Celebrate . Recovery Group'. Oh no. 'What is his name' ??? 'Ah. I'm forgetting again though I hadn't touched a drop of alcohol in at least five days. Wait. Three days. I MUST be thinking clearly, but what the heck is his name?? I summon a little shakey courage, or a kind of curiosity. Just enough to ask the man if we might know one another. 'Is it the bus stop ? Do you take the eleven' ? 'No. I've never ridden the bus in this city' 'Hmm. I'm sure I know you or at least, we frequently pass by one another' Man: Well, I am a pastor at the N.A.I. church down the street. Maybe you've seen our broadcast (?) Dude: 'Well, I don't have a TV. 'Gosh. I'm sure I'seen you' Man: 'Maybe you've been to our church' (?) Dude: 'Oh. It's comin' to me! 'It's comin' to me! 'Yer the guy what baptized me'!
This phenomena is not restricted to the American church alone, it is being experienced the world over. Europe, the UK in particular is no different, the image of the sovereign God has been perverted to a wimpy 'god' who has to serve us when we need him. Churches are all about self-worth now, the most important question being asked, indirectly and directly, is this 'What can God do for me now?' Church leaders, instead of focusing on Christ, are now busy trying to find ways on how they can make their sermons relevant to the 'needs' (I say that loosely) of their congregants and thereby changing their focus from Christ to man. The African church, though seemingly on the rise, is really in decline and no different(I know that's debatable). America has exported this phenomena to the rest of the world and in the case of Africa it has been received without examination and amplified and has resulted in the rise of false teachers, pastors, evangelists, prophets and apostles who are at every corner of each street. One can only imagine the falsehood in such churches. Thanks be to God for ministries like Ligonier who are in the forefront fighting this evil that has crept into the church.
Ligonier Ministries is awesome! cuz they don't just preach Bible they lecture on real topics ! and things that we are living today! they value church history, History it self! among other topics. I've been a part of the evangelical church for 34 years! never seen a ministry like this one and niether a group of men/Pastors who answer the tough questions and address them as well! Mike Horton as well as all the other gentlemen cause that's what they are, know their stuff and can actually have a decent conversation with anyone including mess up Christians who don't educate themselves just believe everything momma, daddy, and pastor say! although these mean well I have found out that they can Be wrong! Ligonier rattles your seat, your mind, your consieance and I like that!
You cannot die to self. That is feeling-driven law. Christ imputed his righteousness to those who have faith. Your "dying to self" religion leads to despair. You don't know what you're talking about.
@@martha1spur but doesn’t Christ call us to pick up our crosses and follow him? I think that @john Henderson was referring to the fact that we can’t truly follow Christ and live until we die to our own selves and our desires. Of course, that is not at all possible to do by our own selves, only through Christ Jesus.
Wow! Thank You Lord Jesus for loving Your wayward flock (including me!) so much that when we wander You send Your shepherds to lead us back. How easy it is to buy into the culture's thrust that it is all about me--not You! Thank you Ligonier Ministries and Dr Parson for being faithful shepherds to the flock
I don’t mind organized religion but it must be a place where the true Gospel of free and sovereign grace is preached, and where Christ and His accomplished work are magnified and exalted. No man-centered, or entertaining worship is tolerated.
We MUST fight for the True Gospel. This certainly means to counter the heresy in American Evangelical "churches" of the "vision casting celebrity leader". The mission field is in our midst. Jude 3
"THE" TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE MEANS ONLY THE "ONE AND ONLY" TRUTH JESUS CAN SET YOU FREE AND NOTHING AND NO ONE ELSE. IT ALSO REVEALS THAT THE LIES OF THE DEVIL, THE FATHER OF LIES, WILL DARKEN THE MIND AND ENSLAVE YOU. WE PRAISE AND GLORIFY GOD FOR THESE KINDS OF TRUE SERVANTS OF GOD WHOM THE HOLY SPIRIT USES THROUGH HIS LIGHT TO EXPOSE THE BONDAGES OF THE DEVIL.
Yes. The above references will help you though, you can google several of the word combinations including Finney. You may also glean a bit from wiki brief bios. He was fully pragmatist believing that what ever worked In motivating the most possible to make a conversion acknowledgement. Only an infintessimal percentage of Finney 'revivals' were ever found to be confirmed conversions though, of the slight percentage of these interviewed came to Finney's meetings having already been converted. As well,many were gathered from local salloons, and many from poor houses being promised staples. The working poor had hopes that they might connect with those who were one or two steps up the rung on the ladder of commerce and society. God's Best To You, Brother
@@claydoyle6649 Where did you find this information? Please sight some sources. I would be interested in seeing who and how they came to these conclusions. I am aquatinted with the term "rice christians." Which are usually counted as real converts regardless of hearts or lives changed. Wikipedia says of itself it is not an authoritative source. I would hope you have some more reliable original authors. Thanks
@@leodwinak No one's "changed" life is Christianity. ONLY CHRIST'S work--his life, death, and resurrection for our justification is Christianity. People do not look like Christ on any given day. WE ARE NOT the focus of the Scriptures or Christianity.
I hate to disagree with Michael about people still believing that you have to strive to live a perfect life and if you died with sin in your life you'd die a lost man. I've came out from a Church like this these are good God fearing People who has absolutely zero joy in their salvation. Other then that what a great Message.
Oh wow I am going to obey this man. He’s literally tough and believable because of the way he talks and yells at certain points of his speech… yep yeah yeah I’m going to his next performance. Man can’t wait. Smh don’t follow any of this. Just be a good person. He’s making a grip load of money just like all these humans want to do is be as greedy and fake to everyone and themselves. Which is disgusting. How about this… you or we don’t know what in the world we are doing here on this spinning rock. So just know what you know and be a good person and love each other as much as possible. Especially your family friends and even more strangers who need help. Just believe in that. That’s all you need. This kind of stuff is destroying what we need to focus on.
Maybe if the churches would quit their pagan/papist traditions of men "holy" days celebrations, which God prohibits, the churches would more easily hear from God. As for me, I refuse to attend any church that thinks its OK with God to put up the pagan phallic symbol, the X Mass tree, next to their pulpits and also call Resurrection Sunday, "Easter," even celebrating it on the pagan day instead of near or on Passover. God sees the hypocrisy of those preaching against paganism in the churches while yet approving of X Mass and Easter, and in some non-Roman Catholic churches, Lent and the RCC Eucharist.
+MsSherry9960 The worst blasphemy is to minimize the work of Jesus Christ by daring to claim it is not enough to save. Which is what the Roman Catholic mass does AND what mainstream American Evangelicalism does, ironically. I just heard a celebrity "pastor" say in public, to applause, "Jesus won't bless us unless we tithe" (meaning give money to him.) This guy has a global following! The Great Apostasy is upon us. 2 Thess. 2
+MsSherry9960 Get over it. Of course, I am not defending paganism. Christians are IN the world and not OF it. American Evangelicalism uses occult techniques w/ Christian words to promote vision-casting, getting information from "God". That is worse. Christians have FREEDOM. But understanding the difference between the Law and Gospel is the POINT.
Jack Palkovic Trust me, I know that this isn't the biggest problem facing the church. Only one of the many of them due to Christians lacking discernment and biblical knowledge of what God has said in His Word on how to worship Him. Any other way is will worship which He hates. You know me so very little to say that I don't have balance. I will do as the Lord has led me to do. As Christians we are to warn our brothers and sisters in Christ when they are erring. We are to care that our brethren do not lose rewards.
Alice Liddell Jesus did not redeem paganism in any form. A little bit of leaven leavens the whole lump. The little foxes spoil the vine. In God's sight there is no such thing as a little sin. All paganism is detestable to Him when used by His children even if done in His Name and to glorify Him. We do not have FREEDOM to worship God in any way other than what He has told us. He detests our X Masses and Easters because He has told us not to do as the heathen do in worship of Him. Can we worship God by disobeying Him? As far as "getting over it" I will do as the Lord God would have me do. I hope you and Jack will do the same and investigate what God has to say about celebrating "holy" days whose foundation is pagan and that is not of His commanding. And that is not LAW but GOD'S WORD on how we are to worship Him. Remember, Jesus upbraided the Pharisees for their traditions of men that overshadowed God's Word. Today, Pagan/papist traditions of men do the same thing-our emotional attachments to these abominations blinds us to the truth. Flee from idolatry!~
+MrsSherry, you may not realize this but the Tree has been used since the middle ages for scenery as part of a Nativity play, where the tree is a symbol for how Jesus redeems us from Adam's sin with his sacrifice on the cross. The cross was believed to remind us of the original tree of the knowledge of good and evil in Genesis. So this "nativity tree" shows the undoing of the sin caused through this tree, and the tree was decorated with roses. That's the way we think of our Christmas tree in our family. It is the victory of Christ over the world, and so, the tree is now resplendent.
He is so right about the "getting resources online"! I do that! But it is because I am dying of hunger in the local "church" services.
Maybe a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod or Anglican Church in North America congregation is in your area?
These men are a,blessing to the church, they have a level of wisdom that is powerful
For sure, James. It was certainly God's grace which led me from
many years of a personality
driven movement from the 70s
where I often found myself at
odds with the 'Moses Model'
of leadership not once illuded
to by ANY New Testement
writer.
A movement which turned out pastors as a movie theater
turns out popcorn.
A movement so blended with charismata activity with
expository teaching
that one might feel
as though they have
found themself in...
...the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole. A movement wherein
people whom you might
have never seen, let
alone met may
claim that they
have 'word from
the Lord specifically
for you. To which you
might ask if they
recall your name
or perhaps even
your gender.
A movement which is seemingly
validated by the the explosion of
their population and the musical creativity of their youth.
A movement wherein pastors or song writers are given celebrity
adulation as though God quit
developing unique music immediately after this musical
artist was born.
A movement where training in
languages are nonessential
in order to rightly divide the
word of a God who graciously
preserved all necessary oral
tradition that it would be the
ABSOLUTE words and narrative
to one day be written and included
in the cannon of Holy Scripture.
A movement where the fear of God was not stressed and respect
for God and man were not implamented.
A movement without wholesome
structure so that many just coming
to Christ had no idea of what to do
with themselves in the realm of
common sense and ending up a
vagabond in this temporary realm
and not well enough established
in clear soteriology and Christian
doctrine in order to have assurance of the realm
to come. Thus, often
obsessed with, what
in their mind, is the
hopeless term of
Job, 'Would that
I had never been
born'!
And a paranoia that the chip and dip sample at the store had not
the corona virus left by yet
another inconsiderate meat
eater no doubt.
So you rush off to Urgent Care in order to confirm your condition
one way or the other.
After you fill out the usual required
papers you sit down until your
number his called. The man next to you sneezes without covering
his mouth. You rise in order to
switch seats. As you do, you
slightly recognize the man who
sneezed.
Was it -- could it be -- Yes. It was the leader of your 'Celebrate . Recovery Group'. Oh no. 'What is
his name' ??? 'Ah. I'm forgetting again though I hadn't touched a drop of alcohol in at least five
days. Wait. Three days. I MUST
be thinking clearly, but what the
heck is his name??
I summon a little shakey courage, or a kind of curiosity. Just enough
to ask the man if we might know
one another. 'Is it the bus stop ?
Do you take the eleven' ?
'No. I've never ridden the bus in this city'
'Hmm. I'm sure I know you or at
least, we frequently pass by one
another'
Man: Well, I am a pastor at the
N.A.I. church down the street.
Maybe you've seen our broadcast (?)
Dude: 'Well, I don't have a TV. 'Gosh. I'm sure I'seen you'
Man: 'Maybe you've been to our
church' (?)
Dude: 'Oh. It's comin' to me!
'It's comin' to me!
'Yer the guy what baptized
me'!
Preach it brother Michael, PREACH IT!!!!!! Hit the nail on the head with this 1!!!
And this was filmed in 2015... looking at the world and church now, it seems even more evident!
Never heard this brother before. What a blessing he is.
Great message!
This phenomena is not restricted to the American church alone, it is being experienced the world over. Europe, the UK in particular is no different, the image of the sovereign God has been perverted to a wimpy 'god' who has to serve us when we need him. Churches are all about self-worth now, the most important question being asked, indirectly and directly, is this 'What can God do for me now?' Church leaders, instead of focusing on Christ, are now busy trying to find ways on how they can make their sermons relevant to the 'needs' (I say that loosely) of their congregants and thereby changing their focus from Christ to man.
The African church, though seemingly on the rise, is really in decline and no different(I know that's debatable). America has exported this phenomena to the rest of the world and in the case of Africa it has been received without examination and amplified and has resulted in the rise of false teachers, pastors, evangelists, prophets and apostles who are at every corner of each street. One can only imagine the falsehood in such churches.
Thanks be to God for ministries like Ligonier who are in the forefront fighting this evil that has crept into the church.
Ligonier Ministries is awesome! cuz they don't just preach Bible they lecture on real topics ! and things that we are living today! they value church history, History it self! among other topics. I've been a part of the evangelical church for 34 years! never seen a ministry like this one and niether a group of men/Pastors who answer the tough questions and address them as well! Mike Horton as well as all the other gentlemen cause that's what they are, know their stuff and can actually have a decent conversation with anyone including mess up Christians who don't educate themselves just believe everything momma, daddy, and pastor say! although these mean well I have found out that they can Be wrong! Ligonier rattles your seat, your mind, your consieance and I like that!
Excellent sermon. By looking within all we find is rationalization of sin.
Spirituality is booming and Christianity is declining..well said
I can't truly live until I die to self and live for Christ.
You cannot die to self. That is feeling-driven law. Christ imputed his righteousness to those who have faith. Your "dying to self" religion leads to despair. You don't know what you're talking about.
@@martha1spur Paul speaks of dying to self
@@martha1spur but doesn’t Christ call us to pick up our crosses and follow him? I think that @john Henderson was referring to the fact that we can’t truly follow Christ and live until we die to our own selves and our desires. Of course, that is not at all possible to do by our own selves, only through Christ Jesus.
Wow! Thank You Lord Jesus for loving Your wayward flock (including me!) so much that when we wander You send Your shepherds to lead us back. How easy it is to buy into the culture's thrust that it is all about me--not You! Thank you Ligonier Ministries and Dr Parson for being faithful shepherds to the flock
@17:25 Wait, there were no books on Christian Nationalism in that library!? 🤪
Refreshing.
I don’t mind organized religion but it must be a place where the true Gospel of free and sovereign grace is preached, and where Christ and His accomplished work are magnified and exalted. No man-centered, or entertaining worship is tolerated.
We MUST fight for the True Gospel.
This certainly means to counter the heresy in American Evangelical "churches" of the "vision casting celebrity leader".
The mission field is in our midst.
Jude 3
"THE" TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE MEANS ONLY THE "ONE AND ONLY" TRUTH JESUS CAN SET YOU FREE AND NOTHING AND NO ONE ELSE. IT ALSO REVEALS THAT THE LIES OF THE DEVIL, THE FATHER OF LIES, WILL DARKEN THE MIND AND ENSLAVE YOU. WE PRAISE AND GLORIFY GOD FOR THESE KINDS OF TRUE SERVANTS OF GOD WHOM THE HOLY SPIRIT USES THROUGH HIS LIGHT TO EXPOSE THE BONDAGES OF THE DEVIL.
He should say, “Christians don’t like to be saved”.
God is denied by not preaching His Gospel.
At 34:15, Horton said that Finney denied justification by faith. Where can I find a reference for that?
www.monergism.com/disturbing-legacy-charles-finney this gives you some of the references and further argumentation from Horton.
Just read Finney's Systematic Theology. That would leave you with no doubt that he denies justification by faith.
Yes. The above references will help you though, you can google several of the word combinations including Finney.
You may also glean a bit from
wiki brief bios. He was fully pragmatist believing that what ever worked In motivating the most possible to make a conversion acknowledgement.
Only an infintessimal percentage
of Finney 'revivals' were ever found to be confirmed conversions
though, of the slight percentage of these interviewed came to Finney's meetings having already been converted. As well,many were gathered from local salloons,
and many from poor houses
being promised staples.
The working poor had hopes that
they might connect with those who
were one or two steps up the rung
on the ladder of commerce and
society.
God's Best To You, Brother
@@claydoyle6649
Where did you find this information?
Please sight some sources.
I would be interested in seeing who and how they came to these conclusions.
I am aquatinted with the term "rice christians." Which are usually counted as real converts regardless of hearts or lives changed.
Wikipedia says of itself it is not an authoritative source. I would hope you have some more reliable original authors.
Thanks
@@leodwinak No one's "changed" life is Christianity. ONLY CHRIST'S work--his life, death, and resurrection for our justification is Christianity. People do not look like Christ on any given day. WE ARE NOT the focus of the Scriptures or Christianity.
@13:30 Greg Locke was taking notes.🤠
I hate to disagree with Michael about people still believing that you have to strive to live a perfect life and if you died with sin in your life you'd die a lost man. I've came out from a Church like this these are good God fearing People who has absolutely zero joy in their salvation. Other then that what a great Message.
People still believe that they have to strive to live a perfect life and if you die with a sin you go to purgatory or hell. They're called Catholics.
He is suppose to share Bible but all he does is share his own ideas and opinios. My word, how is the church leading in the great apostasy?
Oh wow I am going to obey this man. He’s literally tough and believable because of the way he talks and yells at certain points of his speech… yep yeah yeah I’m going to his next performance. Man can’t wait. Smh don’t follow any of this. Just be a good person. He’s making a grip load of money just like all these humans want to do is be as greedy and fake to everyone and themselves. Which is disgusting. How about this… you or we don’t know what in the world we are doing here on this spinning rock. So just know what you know and be a good person and love each other as much as possible. Especially your family friends and even more strangers who need help. Just believe in that. That’s all you need. This kind of stuff is destroying what we need to focus on.
What in the world are you saying?? Open God’s word and obey God. None of your words are biblical
Just keeping following your feelings. You'll meet your god--despair.
♥️iHOP♥️
25:30
Maybe if the churches would quit their pagan/papist traditions of men "holy" days celebrations, which God prohibits, the churches would more easily hear from God. As for me, I refuse to attend any church that thinks its OK with God to put up the pagan phallic symbol, the X Mass tree, next to their pulpits and also call Resurrection Sunday, "Easter," even celebrating it on the pagan day instead of near or on Passover. God sees the hypocrisy of those preaching against paganism in the churches while yet approving of X Mass and Easter, and in some non-Roman Catholic churches, Lent and the RCC Eucharist.
+MsSherry9960 The worst blasphemy is to minimize the work of Jesus Christ by daring to claim it is not enough to save. Which is what the Roman Catholic mass does AND what mainstream American Evangelicalism does, ironically.
I just heard a celebrity "pastor" say in public, to applause, "Jesus won't bless us unless we tithe" (meaning give money to him.) This guy has a global following!
The Great Apostasy is upon us. 2 Thess. 2
+MsSherry9960 Get over it. Of course, I am not defending paganism. Christians are IN the world and not OF it.
American Evangelicalism uses occult techniques w/ Christian words to promote vision-casting, getting information from "God".
That is worse.
Christians have FREEDOM. But understanding the difference between the Law and Gospel is the POINT.
Jack Palkovic
Trust me, I know that this isn't the biggest problem facing the church. Only one of the many of them due to Christians lacking discernment and biblical knowledge of what God has said in His Word on how to worship Him. Any other way is will worship which He hates. You know me so very little to say that I don't have balance. I will do as the Lord has led me to do. As Christians we are to warn our brothers and sisters in Christ when they are erring. We are to care that our brethren do not lose rewards.
Alice Liddell
Jesus did not redeem paganism in any form. A little bit of leaven leavens the whole lump. The little foxes spoil the vine. In God's sight there is no such thing as a little sin. All paganism is detestable to Him when used by His children even if done in His Name and to glorify Him. We do not have FREEDOM to worship God in any way other than what He has told us. He detests our X Masses and Easters because He has told us not to do as the heathen do in worship of Him. Can we worship God by disobeying Him? As far as "getting over it" I will do as the Lord God would have me do. I hope you and Jack will do the same and investigate what God has to say about celebrating "holy" days whose foundation is pagan and that is not of His commanding. And that is not LAW but GOD'S WORD on how we are to worship Him. Remember, Jesus upbraided the Pharisees for their traditions of men that overshadowed God's Word. Today, Pagan/papist traditions of men do the same thing-our emotional attachments to these abominations blinds us to the truth. Flee from idolatry!~
+MrsSherry, you may not realize this but the Tree has been used since the middle ages for scenery as part of a Nativity play, where the tree is a symbol for how Jesus redeems us from Adam's sin with his sacrifice on the cross. The cross was believed to remind us of the original tree of the knowledge of good and evil in Genesis. So this "nativity tree" shows the undoing of the sin caused through this tree, and the tree was decorated with roses. That's the way we think of our Christmas tree in our family. It is the victory of Christ over the world, and so, the tree is now resplendent.