Kris vs Lyra: Pokémon’s Radical Replacement

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  • Опубліковано 2 вер 2022
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 570

  • @GatorEX
    @GatorEX  Рік тому +281

    Also, I’m using a new mic and am still getting used to the settings, so please bear with me. But let me know how it sounds so far.

  • @JoeMudd
    @JoeMudd Рік тому +931

    To this day, replacing Kris is a baffling decision. But I will say this for Lyra - her design does fit Johto for me. It's a very pastoral region, with lots of rural routes and farmlands and only one big modern city, so it makes sense that she looks like a farm girl.

    • @zjzr08
      @zjzr08 Рік тому +43

      I think while it fits the rural design it does feel like she's more of the stay at home kind of worker and not a forager per se.

    • @han-df9mw
      @han-df9mw Рік тому +35

      @@zjzr08 Nobody that wears overalls stays at home

    • @zjzr08
      @zjzr08 Рік тому +1

      @@han-df9mw What I mean is that she likely works at the farm and doesn't go out that much.

    • @12me91
      @12me91 Рік тому

      I hate lyra so much

    • @TheDeathmail
      @TheDeathmail Рік тому +22

      It actually makes sense. You see, Kris was never her own character, she was just a gender swapped version of Ethan.... hell, in Crystal, Ethan's base name was actually Kris...
      In Gen 3 & 4, it was the first time we had the females being actual different characters rather than a gender swap....
      A very simple rule of thumb is using Ash. If they were Ash's companion, they were a character, if they weren't, they were a gender swap....
      For HGSS, they wanted a new character rather than a gender swap....

  • @unholyscreeches8766
    @unholyscreeches8766 Рік тому +419

    Honestly the thing I hated the most about them replacing Kris with Lyra for the remakes is that Kris was the first playable female protagonist! That alone should net her more recognition in official pokemon media. I hope we get to see more of both Kris AND Lyra in the future.

    • @TheDeathmail
      @TheDeathmail Рік тому +15

      The issue is that Kris wasn't really her own character. She was actually a gender swap...
      Basic rule of thumb, if the female protagonist was Ash's travel companion, she was her own character... if not, she's a gender swap... and an alternative version of Ash.
      They wanted Lyra to be her own character and not a gender swap...

    • @darknessknows1235
      @darknessknows1235 Рік тому +71

      @@TheDeathmail practically nobody sees the game protagonists as actual genderbends as opposed to just silent characters lmao

    • @dirckthedork-knight1201
      @dirckthedork-knight1201 Рік тому +1

      ​​@@darknessknows1235 The developers surely did when making Crystal originally

  • @Gazer01
    @Gazer01 Рік тому +1219

    Seems like the reason Kris was replaced was because she was the character for crystal game, its even in her name. Since the remakes were for gold and silver it seems like they decided to create a new character for them since there was no female character in them, rather than pulling from crystal as that is not the game being remade. If there was it will be a crystal remake for whatever reason, Kris is very likely to return.

    • @nellewoodruff6337
      @nellewoodruff6337 Рік тому +86

      That makes sense. I hope that's the case since while I love Lyra it makes me sad that Kris never came back

    • @DanielPereira-ey9nt
      @DanielPereira-ey9nt Рік тому +35

      @@nellewoodruff6337 there's still hopes for a Crystal base let's Go remake

    • @TheDeathmail
      @TheDeathmail Рік тому +69

      No, the main reason was because Kris was an alternative to Ethan... meaning, she WAS Ethan....
      But for HGSS, they wanted her to be her own character.
      A good check for this is the anime, everytime Ash has the female companion being the female protag of the generation, it's because the female protag is their own character and not an alternative (as seen in Gen 3, 4 & 6) but in every gen where the female is only an alternative, Ash is accompanied by a different girl (Gen 1, 2, 5, 7, & 8).
      Ash represents all of the protagonists unless if there is an alternative.
      _______________
      Basically, Kris is a female version of Ash from the Crystal timeline.... as is Ethan. And as such, they needed a character that wasn't a version of Ash....

    • @mushymcmushington7176
      @mushymcmushington7176 Рік тому +32

      This makes sense, but only through the lens of Nintendo Logic™. The same logic that led to Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl lacking several things from Platinum.

    • @bluelan9393
      @bluelan9393 Рік тому +41

      I read once that game freak was going to use Crystal in the remakes, but the director saw a girl that the character designer doodle and really love her so she became Lyra. She wasn't originally designed for HGSS.

  • @AtomBacon
    @AtomBacon Рік тому +563

    Crystal was my first game, I chose Kris, and picked Totodile as my first pokemon ever so they hold a special place in my heart.

    • @Bzlaabnieni
      @Bzlaabnieni Рік тому +13

      Mine too! I felt genuinely welled up when I evolved Kris' Crocnaw in Pokemon Masters, so many memories.

    • @powerfulberry237
      @powerfulberry237 Рік тому +2

      So is it Kris or Heart, make up your mind

    • @shytendeakatamanoir9740
      @shytendeakatamanoir9740 Рік тому +5

      @@powerfulberry237 Marina.
      (Or whatever her anime name was)

    • @z6lda
      @z6lda Рік тому +2

      @@powerfulberry237 In the first game she doesnt have an official name but later named kris in pokemas, in the manga she is named crystal nicknamed kris, in the anime she is called marina (idk where heart came from)

  • @yaboi8947
    @yaboi8947 Рік тому +304

    My name is Krista, Kris for short, and when I was little and I got Pokémon Crystal when it came out, I was able to play a video game as my own gender for the first time, and if that weren’t enough, my name was the character default name. It blew my mind. For that, Kris and Pokémon Crystal will forever be my fav’s.

    • @CloverPillbug
      @CloverPillbug Рік тому +5

      Same but I had an older cousin who had it she let me play on her save file and I was surprised when she said that the girl character is named Kris

    • @kidayuki9884
      @kidayuki9884 Рік тому +6

      As a fellow Krista often called Kris I feel this and I loved Kris so much to me she was me as a kid

    • @yaboi8947
      @yaboi8947 Рік тому +1

      @@kidayuki9884 🤝

  • @shadithakis
    @shadithakis Рік тому +342

    I love Lyra mostly because everytime I see her design it just reminds me of Mario

    • @GatorEX
      @GatorEX  Рік тому +85

      Let’s-a go!

    • @castform7
      @castform7 Рік тому +88

      It's-a me, Lyra. Let-a me introduce you to-a my brother Luigia.

    • @FootballPsychoPS3T
      @FootballPsychoPS3T Рік тому +33

      @@castform7 And my legendary Pokémon Lugia

    • @parkergreen2704
      @parkergreen2704 Рік тому +8

      Lyra: Nice of the professor to invite us over to Kanto, eh Ethan!

  • @lilli7040
    @lilli7040 Рік тому +302

    As an avid pokemon adventures/special reader, I could tell you that Crystal as a character is probably where the Masters Kris took inspirations from. She's a trainer that specializes in Pokemon catching and her whole journey started to help Professor Oak as an assistant and still continues that because there really is no end to the amount of Pokemon to catch and research. Unlike Lyra, Crystal is definitely more serious and uptight which is why Kris is less upbeat than Lyra. I really enjoy their take on Crys/Crystal and how they implemented HGSS. So just like the Crystal games introduced, Crystal arc really follows the game in which there's a focus on Suicune as Crys follows it after a fateful encounter. However, the manga really implemented this third game by having her journey in the middle of the whole Johto arc that started with Gold and Silver as it slowly but surely ties the three main characters together and conclude it. For the remake arcs in the manga, they tend to focus on the new locations/events the remakes provide. FRLG=Sevii Islands, HGSS=Sinjoh Ruins, ORAS=Delta Episode. Because it's such a small arc that delves deeper with how the main cast tackle these new problems presented to them. If they introduce a new character as Lyra, it becomes very counterproductive and introductions to a supposedly new main character when we already have an established main character to fill that role. It also shows the relationship between Gold, Silver and Crys that was only glimpsed with their introductory arcs and Emerald, because the manga is always trying to move to new arcs and a new cast so it's rare to see the old ones.

    • @Blue_XIII
      @Blue_XIII Рік тому +36

      Thank you for mentioning this. I absolutely love the adventures/special manga, but no one ever seems to mention them due to them not being widely known as everything else in the pokemon franchise

    • @kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214
      @kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Рік тому +32

      @@Blue_XIII Everyone knows about the Adventures/Special Manga, but there isnt a single popular American UA-camr that did more than just read the Bulbapedia Article about the plot of RGB, so most people just say the Manga is dark even tho it really isnt, and some say it is well written without even knowing why

    • @sensei.bettiol6508
      @sensei.bettiol6508 Рік тому +17

      @@Blue_XIII that's a thing i always wondered, why people tend to ignore manga in general? like seriously Pokémon Adventures is largely ignored by the fanbase and when people do talk about it they generally talk about the scene when Koga's Arbok is cut in half, here in Brazil ( sorry if my english is bad, it's not my native language) the anime Saint Seiya is extremely popular and well know in the anime community, but the fanbase adamantly refuse to read the manga to the point they think plotholes caused by the Fillers of the anime ( who are pretty common since the anime launch 10 months after the first chapter of the manga) are caused by Masami Kurumada the author of the manga being bad and not because Toei made a bad job adapting the manga ( like the protagonist Seiya who is a hot-blooded, funny and kinda immature boy in the manga, but in the anime he is a generic good two-shoes and bland protagonist), and other fanbases althought less agressive also tend to ignore the manga.
      I don't know if this is only a issue in the Pokémon and the Brazilian anime community but i must ask: Why is so many anime fans don't like to read manga?

    • @kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214
      @kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Рік тому +7

      @@sensei.bettiol6508 É bem simples: pessoas não gostam de ler em Geral, Por isso geralmente so assistem o Anime
      Sobre o Adventures,acho que é por péssima divulgação,a Pokemon Company em si nunca divulga nada sobre no canal oficial dela, e quando algum UA-camr faz vídeo sobre é sempre "Oia so como esse Manga é fiel aos jogos e violento cheio de sangue" o que no máximo faz a pessoa assistindo o video dizer "Uau legal" e depois esquecer sobre

    • @sensei.bettiol6508
      @sensei.bettiol6508 Рік тому +6

      @@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Faz sentido, especialmente com a tecnologia atual que nos permite ter acesso rápido a qualquer informação de forma bem resumida.

  • @happyvocal
    @happyvocal Рік тому +65

    Crystal holds a special place in my heart. As a little girl who felt left-out because video games were for boys, being able to play as a girl made me so happy. I remember that moment. Especially since I did a lot of role-play when I played my rpgs, it made it easier for me to imagine myself as Kris.

  • @StonedHunter
    @StonedHunter Рік тому +40

    I'm not going to lie. As someone who's all time favorite game IS Crystal, I might have almost cried when they gave Kris Suicunne in Pokemon Masters as that was the one pair I had been hoping they'd make, and not only that they made her look SO pretty. My 10 year old self would have been so happy haha.

  • @queertiefling
    @queertiefling Рік тому +171

    I didn't even know about Kris until I decided to play Crystal and wanted to know why she and lyra look so different from each other. Tbh, I prefer Kris's design over Lyra's but both have a place in my heart

  • @Aaron-ky4sz
    @Aaron-ky4sz Рік тому +64

    The fact that Kris’ sprite is still in the data for HGSS, alongside the fact that Ethan and Silver BOTH have prototype sprites/designs, leads me to believe Kris was initially in HGSS at some point but was replaced pretty late
    Pre-release footage/pics at the time also only showed Ethan for a while, with no sign of Lyra till a bit later. Were they deciding what to do with Kris, or ironing out Lyra’s design?

    • @CF-od1uq
      @CF-od1uq Рік тому +1

      Do you have a link for Kris’ Sprite? I can’t find any

    • @ajtriforcegamerofhyrule8538
      @ajtriforcegamerofhyrule8538 10 місяців тому +1

      ​@CF-od1uq
      Only her map sprite was found but that's all for now i think Lyra overwrite her code at some point during development

  • @Blah2000Blah
    @Blah2000Blah Рік тому +109

    Kris is my favorite because she has a unique aesthetic that works for anime, while looking very athletic. Lyra follows the common main player aesthetic, having plainly colored hair and clothing that is cute because she is the female character.

    • @DanielPereira-ey9nt
      @DanielPereira-ey9nt Рік тому +9

      That is also why the Pokemon Company prefers Lyra, she is simply more marketable

  • @afmf8700
    @afmf8700 Рік тому +57

    I knew those sandals looked familiar!
    It's weird, Pokémon Masters finally made me come to terms regarding Kris and Lyra. When Lyra debuted in the remakes I was intrigued but a bit offended Kris wasn't considered. Then I kinda lost interest in Pokémon until a few years ago, around the time Masters was announced. Seeing Kris included in the game was like meeting a friend I hadn't seen in forever, so I was pretty excited about it. And comparing their personalities in game, for me pretty much all Johto protagonists have synergy going on (Kris is like that friend who moved cities/countries and you see her again after so long but she's still your friend, and Lyra is the newcomer but has such good vibes/personality you get along with rather quickly), so both girls are fine coexisting in the same space.

  • @shuichisaihope398
    @shuichisaihope398 Рік тому +30

    Kinda sad Kris is the only protagonist without any updated artwork so her official artwork always stands out next to all the others

  • @HavikLaosBoi69
    @HavikLaosBoi69 Рік тому +96

    This is merely speculation but honestly would not have been a bad coincidence in design but I think Kris letting her hair loose but still pointed like her pigtails in her Sygna Suit makes her hair resemble that of a waterfall with the pointed side ends representing the splash in which the waterfall ends at. So I think it helps fit more of the theme of Suicune being a legendary deeply tied with nature and water as well as just make the typing fit so right with the blue hair.
    Also they did recently added an event story with a cutscene that has Kris, Hop, and Lucas learning from Professor Oak as all three are seeking to be up-and-coming Pokemon researchers so it does add more to them giving Kris the personality and desires of being a Pokémon ecologist and grants a version of the wish for her to interact with others of the same interest. (And I guess I should note they written Lucas to be Rowan’s assistant in Masters and Dawn being a contest star, so neither are truly tied to the idea of beating the League so that’s what Lucas is tied too in case anyone wonders why he’s involved)

    • @vivictinimoved
      @vivictinimoved Рік тому +2

      thats actually a really interesting theory about her sygna design! to me it just looks like her hair is bent into that position from wearing pigtails all the time lol

    • @zjzr08
      @zjzr08 Рік тому +3

      Dawn is the "canon protag" in Masters but I'm not sure if she's a contest star.

    • @HavikLaosBoi69
      @HavikLaosBoi69 Рік тому +3

      @@zjzr08 her introductory story was about how much she likes to compete in contests so that was my conclusion but of course not all things are normal game canon with Masters. It doesn’t eliminate that she could take part in big events but same with Lucas but seems like their focus is not the league so it leaves the true protag thing ambiguous. But I would guess it would be intentional given that at least the other region protags had sights to be champion meanwhile given how Cynthia is always portrayed no one was gonna try that other than our rival Barry.

    • @zjzr08
      @zjzr08 Рік тому +2

      @@HavikLaosBoi69 I mean "canon protag" to Masters in the sense there's seemingly one whose used more for the extension of main story storylines like Hilbery with N or Ethan with Silver.

  • @Mudkip971
    @Mudkip971 Рік тому +89

    There was also unused data found in HGSS of Kris' head sprite for the Pokegear map.
    Pretty much suggesting Lyra was an afterthought.

  • @reviveempires
    @reviveempires Рік тому +22

    Kris was probably replaced because her design was very "of its time". Her hair is a very good example of Sugimori's design work back in gen 2 and doesn't really fit into modern (at the time) Pokemon's art style. Sugimori was probably trying to update the design and thought enough major changes were needed to bring it up to date that she just wound up as a different character.
    Pokemon protagonists outside of Kris tend to have naturalistic hair colours as well rather than unnatural ones (Dawn is dark blue but it's an implied black), unfortunately Kris's design suffered as being of it's time.

  • @DrFouFou
    @DrFouFou Рік тому +75

    The idea that Lyra spends too much time talking is such a good detail

  • @JMonique41
    @JMonique41 Рік тому +58

    I remember being super disappointed that Kris didn't get redesigned and highly amused that Kris's Pokemon Adventures counterpart wears Lyra's outfit now. That said, Lyra as a character did grow on me, but Kris holds a special place in my heart.

  • @PyroHellhound
    @PyroHellhound Рік тому +18

    If we ever get a let’s go Johto (not saying that we need one, but if it does happen) I hope they give kris a special appearance like they did with Green at the end while Ethan and Lyra can appear throughout like Red and Blue.

    • @tayIorswif
      @tayIorswif Рік тому +3

      green has so much johto lore honestly she might aswell make an appearance in a johto remake

  • @krisp1799
    @krisp1799 Рік тому +20

    I’d definitely love to see a video covering the Pokémon Masters alternate outfits , you break those down so well. Or even just a review of their voice acting for certain characters, since Masters is the only game that gave a lot of these characters voices for the first time .

  • @unofficialmeme5972
    @unofficialmeme5972 Рік тому +18

    This is the greatest gen 2 debate of all time.

  • @TaleOfTheToaster
    @TaleOfTheToaster Рік тому +19

    I’m so glad I can watch a channel like this to get the insights on the cool parts of Pokémon Masters without actually having to play it
    Always been a Lyra fan but this gave me some more appreciation of Kris

  • @Evixyn
    @Evixyn Рік тому +29

    I always enjoyed Kris design more then Lyra designs. I was disappointed when she was replaced during the remakes so I just decided to go with ethan / gold.

  • @masterriolu8627
    @masterriolu8627 Рік тому +6

    Mad disappointed you didn´t comment how Lyra dresses up as Mario

  • @LegoCat88
    @LegoCat88 Рік тому +32

    Crys in Pokémon Adventures is pretty similar to Kris in Masters, they both are more interested in collecting and researching Pokémon, with Crys working with professor oak in the manga. I’m guessing Masters got inspiration for her personality from there.

  • @ikatjam
    @ikatjam Рік тому +12

    I remember being a little 6 year old and playing Red and Yellow, then Silver when it came out. Crystal was so wild because I'd never even thought they'd have a female character option! Kris will always be the OG. When HGSS came out I was REALLY mad that they sidelined her, and I remember a bunch of us in the fanart community made fun of Lyra's design. I kinda warmed up to her over the years, but Kris definitely deserves more recognition. She was and still is my favorite character. It's weird to think that the newer people playing Pokémon these days might just now be getting introduced to her because of a mobile game.
    BTW, always worth reading PokeSpe (the manga).

    • @tayIorswif
      @tayIorswif Рік тому

      lmao because of pokespe Kris and Lyra are literally the same person to me😭

  • @LightStreak567
    @LightStreak567 Рік тому +5

    Fun fact: Lyra in the Pokemon Diamond & Pearl anime is voice acted by the same person who voiced Team Galactic commander Jupiter, and Iris in the Black & White anime who was the Opelucid City Gym Leader in the White Version game and the Unova League Champion in Black Version 2 and White Version 2.

  • @hikaruhoshina4204
    @hikaruhoshina4204 Рік тому +10

    I love both, Kris and Lyra. A lot....so it's sad one fanbase seems to hate the other

  • @spagettynoddle1887
    @spagettynoddle1887 Рік тому +7

    The shot at 5:12 is so hilarious to me cause it's like
    Kris and Lyra looking badass in their Suicune/Celebi inspired dresses!
    Ethan/Gold rockin his Lugia outfit!
    Silver
    (They should have given him a Ho-oh outfit, my mans has been wearing the same clothes for like 20 years 😔)

    • @ailehunter
      @ailehunter Рік тому

      Silver seems to have started with a Totodile. Locked behind level 100 interaction uwu

    • @spagettynoddle1887
      @spagettynoddle1887 Рік тому

      @@ailehunter I totally headcanon Silver having Totodile as a starter anyway, but I meant that since everyone has a Johto legendary/mythical pokemon theme it's kinda weird that no one is representing Ho-Oh, and since Silver has one in the game it'd only make sense for him to get a Ho-Oh-themed sygna suit.

    • @ailehunter
      @ailehunter Рік тому

      @@spagettynoddle1887 oh wells, Pokemon has a lot of trainers so xD

    • @ShinyShilla
      @ShinyShilla Рік тому +1

      Silver having a Totodile means my otp can be achieved (Cris Silver)
      I know the manga hints another girl but I don't care

  • @StarzyKK
    @StarzyKK Рік тому +51

    Personally, I like Kris more, but that might be my love for Crystal talking.
    Though I thought that Gold represented Gold, Lyra for Silver, and Kris for Crystal. Since HGSS didn't include a "Mind Crystal" or some thing, I guess that's why they swapped out Kris for Lyra. 🤷‍♂️

    • @TheDeathmail
      @TheDeathmail Рік тому +4

      Nah, they just wanted the girl to be her own character. Kris was an alternative of Ethan... they wanted to give a role of a secondary rival to someone, but Kris was just a gender swapped Ethan.

    • @iviyohane
      @iviyohane Рік тому +13

      @@TheDeathmail Lucas and Dawn are gender swaps of each other yet they gave the secondary rival role to them. The male and female avatars are meant to represent the same idea, so Kris fits better than Lyra, just like the rest of the female characters.
      Nothing could justify replacing the very first female character in the entire series and then ignoring her.
      Red and Green/Leaf were replaced in Let's Go as player characters, but at least they were present in the game as NPCs. Kris was literally obliterated from existence until Crystal was re-released for the 3DS Virtual Console. For the people (specially girls) who grew up with the first generations, this wasn't fair and was also a bit of misogynistic.

    • @DanielPereira-ey9nt
      @DanielPereira-ey9nt Рік тому +1

      @@iviyohane what are on about ?. Kris is the female protagonist of Pokemon Crystal, she was thrown aside together with her game because of its bad sales. Gold and Silver did not have a female protagonist so they made one for the remake.

    • @WildCharger
      @WildCharger 11 місяців тому +1

      You might be interested to know that in Masters, the name of Lyra & Meganium’s Sync Move is “Heart of Gold Leaf Storm”, and the name of Sygna Suit Ethan & Lugia’s Sync Move is “Shining Soul Aeroblast”. Just an interesting tidbit.

    • @StarzyKK
      @StarzyKK 11 місяців тому +1

      @@WildCharger oh thanks that is interesting! Weird tho how Lyra is the "Gold" rep and Ethat (previously Gold) is the "Silver" rep now

  • @Dusxio
    @Dusxio Рік тому +7

    I honestly prefer Kris' design over Lyra, but I feel Masters really gives her a vibe to match her outfit. It's like you said, she's on a stroll through Johto, taking detours, taking in the sights, having fun. Kris on the other hand is on a bit more active path, exploring pokemon ecology, testing out battles, and her outfit fits that more, looking a bit like the Hoenn fashions.

  • @sakura__star__dear9601
    @sakura__star__dear9601 Рік тому +14

    Kris has a more tomboyish design I like her better

  • @castform7
    @castform7 Рік тому +55

    I feel bad for Kris. She got done dirty by getting replaced and had to sit around doing nothing for 2 decades. That being said I prefer Lyra. She has such a nice design. Still, I gotta put respect on Kris. She is the first female Pokemon protagonist after all.

    • @TheDeathmail
      @TheDeathmail Рік тому +2

      No, she wasn't "done dirty"... see, Kris was an alternative version of Ethan... so it made no sense to have Kris be another character because then there would be 2 Ethans....
      Like, Kris only exists in an alternative multiverse where Ethan was born as a girl instead....
      But in Gen 4, they seemed to want second protagonist rather than alternative....
      Kris is basically the equivalent of Leaf, Rosa, Hilda, Seline, & Gloria (all of them are just alternatives to the male rather than their own characters).
      ______________
      Fun fact, since Ash is supposed to represent all of the male protagonist of the games, he is those girls as well... so Kris, Leaf, Rosa, Hilda, Seline & Gloria are all Ash.
      That's also why May, Dawn and Serena are all able to travel with Ash. Because they were their own characters in the games rather than just alternatives.

    • @CEDL0W
      @CEDL0W Рік тому +13

      @@TheDeathmail Hilda appears in BW even if you pick Hilbert so she is her own character. I also don’t think that’s the reason as Kris was actually going to be in HGSS earlier in development since her PokéGear icon exist in the game but unused. I personally think Kris was replaced because she doesn’t fit gamefreaks standards for a Pokémon protagonist anymore. They tend to want them to look like normal people and Kris with her bright unnatural hair color wasn’t something they wanted anymore. I think GF also said at one point that they also try not to make the protagonist look too cool so that could’ve been a reason as well.

    • @kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214
      @kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Рік тому +9

      @@TheDeathmail Leaf/Blue/Green is also a alternate version of Red and yet there she is in Lets Go
      Also, i dont think Ash is Suposed to represent all Protagonist, Gold has a direct counterpart in the Anime where he is named Jimmy, Brendan and Diamond have made a lot of Cameos during the Movies
      So they exist but are not nearly as important

    • @piranhalettuce
      @piranhalettuce Рік тому +2

      @@TheDeathmail But Rosa appears in B2W2 and helps you when fighting Emmet and Ingo, also Kris appeared in the anime but with a different name.

    • @irembal6011
      @irembal6011 Рік тому

      @@TheDeathmail eh, kris does appear with ethan next to her in the anime, and leaf just didn't exist prior to gen 3

  • @battlingandballing
    @battlingandballing Рік тому +6

    Lyra uses bigger gun!
    Kris uses swat shield!
    Kris is protected!
    Lyra uses uhhh...less big gun?
    Kris dies.

  • @catnerdfromspace
    @catnerdfromspace Рік тому +3

    I honestly can't choose a favourite out of the two of them. Initially it was Lyra, because I'd played SoulSilver more recently than I had played Crystal. But I ended up getting Kris before Lyra in Masters and spent more time with her, which lead to me noticing that Kris's model design is closer to the art style used for Crystal itself... And having grown up on the older games, I found that adherence to style really endearing. Plus her nerd personality is really cute!

  • @Nostalgic64
    @Nostalgic64 Рік тому +7

    Find it intresting that Kris didn't get remodeled or redesign for masters. Her 3d model is based of Crystal's art and it's so retro looking. She definitely sticks out with her huge shoes and small eyes

  • @CEDL0W
    @CEDL0W Рік тому +8

    Oh boy I remember everyone absolutely hating on Lyra during the HGSS era. I mean I like Kris more but poor Lyra.

    • @ethan8661
      @ethan8661 Рік тому

      Lady CEDL0W, You absolute right, Kris is my favourite Pokemon trainer and Top First, Because she wearing awesome outfit(yellow seamed-cap, a white jacket with red stripes on the cuffs, a crimson turtleneck sweater, yellow and black bike Lycra skinny-fit shorts, and red and white high-top hiking senakers with black stripes), And that She was the first female protagonist in a Pokémon game, When I played the Crystal Version, I every remember her awesome outfit and She is Pokémon Trainer Girl, Because design her outfit like is Japanese Mountain Girl, She is really tomboy Pokémon Trainer Girl.

    • @iviyohane
      @iviyohane Рік тому

      That is what happens when a beloved character gets replaced for no (or shitty) reasons.

  • @jrapcdaikari
    @jrapcdaikari Рік тому +2

    LMAO Marina and Jimmy cameod in Pokemon Journeys during the Masters 8 Tournament Lance vs Diantha

  • @loleo123
    @loleo123 Рік тому +9

    I really love kris’ design, but Lyra’s personality in the game was really fun. Imo. So I think I like Lyra more cause we just got more from her. Hope kris makes a return

  • @holobucket7626
    @holobucket7626 Рік тому +15

    I never even knew about Kris until this video since my first games were gen 4. Kinda weird that there's seemingly just no explanation for why she was replaced. The artists are honestly so good at designing characters for these games that maybe they just thought they'd flex a little and make a brand new one for the fun of it

  • @Nostalgic64
    @Nostalgic64 Рік тому +13

    It's really interesting I felt like the whole reason why Kris was ditched it's because she looks really different from Ethan. Like in newer games male and female protags look like they can be siblings. But Lyra doesn't much look like Ethan either, so I wonder why they made her

    • @CEDL0W
      @CEDL0W Рік тому +5

      Serena and Calem don’t look related really. But yeah personally I think Kris was replaced because she stands out from the other protagonist. Like every other one looks fairly normal with a regular hair color. While Kris is out here with bright blue hair. So they replaced her with a more normal looking girl

    • @ohmeohmicah
      @ohmeohmicah 3 місяці тому

      Ironically, Kris looks incredibly similar to Gold _and_ Ethan. She looked like Gold's sibling in GSC, and still looked really similar to Ethan's HGSS design.

    • @ohmeohmicah
      @ohmeohmicah 3 місяці тому

      @@CEDL0W I've always seen the blue hair that some of these protags have as just stylization. Like, look at gen 4 protags, Lucas, Dawn, Ethan, they all look like they have blue hair, even though I think any other source would just depict their hair as black.

    • @CEDL0W
      @CEDL0W 3 місяці тому

      @@ohmeohmicah I can see that with Dawn and Lucas. But Kris’s hair is just too bright for me to believe it’s actually meant to be a darker color. If anything the people who draw/animated her can’t decide if her hair is blue or that sorta green color. Though some of Kris’s gameboy era official art does give off the vibe that her hair could be darker, her later appearances would completely axe the idea and settle on blue or that sorta green color.

  • @2coeur
    @2coeur Рік тому +6

    i modded my rom of soulsilver to have kris instead of lyra. her design is sooo much better

  • @theR1ch
    @theR1ch Рік тому +10

    Lyra's entire design is just really bland. Kris is where it's at.

  • @quaggotoak
    @quaggotoak Рік тому +59

    TEAM KRIS!!! while i do like lyra, kris will always be one of my top favorites. i love that she gets so much story and development in masters, AND a new pretty dress to contrast her tomboyish default outfit. if i am not immune to tomboy propaganda, im seriously weak to tomboy-suddenly-dressed-femininely propaganda

    • @GatorEX
      @GatorEX  Рік тому +10

      I think it was also great she was confirmed right off the bat for the game, all the way back during the first trailer. Masters is doing good things for these characters.

  • @takumidoutou4412
    @takumidoutou4412 Рік тому +7

    When I was on the earlier internet as a kid the Lyra hate made me so sad shes always my fave Pokémon female protag design.
    I think Kris is valid too though! Hating a character because you like the other is stupid

  • @Aioba3846
    @Aioba3846 Рік тому +7

    Hmm... personally, though it's a bit hard choice, I'd say I prefer Kris more over Lyra.
    If I had to point at a specific reason... it'd probably be hairstyle, as it simply appeals to my fashion sense.

  • @chrisshorten4406
    @chrisshorten4406 Рік тому +2

    I like how Kris's hair looks when down.

  • @NiteXD
    @NiteXD Рік тому +1

    Dudeeeee that advert at the end of the video sent me backkkkkkkkkk

  • @LuigiBones
    @LuigiBones Рік тому +3

    i've been playing since red and blue, around the time i was born my mother's special edition pikachu gameboy was stolen by someone who was later caught on terrorism charges. she didnt get it back, we do have a pichu gameboy color somewhere around the house, i miss playing it. i remember as a youth freaking out when my mom's gold cartridge got corrupted, i knew it had celebi registered in the dex and was impossible to obtain normally and got super scared, since i had fallen asleep clutching the gameboy. kris is my favorite mainline pokemon protagonist.

  • @ailehunter
    @ailehunter Рік тому +3

    Funny enough, Kris, Hop and Lucas battle Cynthia and Red. They were learning from Prof Oak when Cynthia came and asked about Red. Kris, Hop and Lucas goes with Cynthia while she looks for Red.
    I think I wouldve cried if we had to fight Dialga, Zamazenta and Suicune ;-;

  • @flaregamer64
    @flaregamer64 Рік тому +58

    I honestly think they made Lyra so it was easier for the female audience to relate to the player character. Kris is a more acquired taste and is heavily themed around the times she was made. Lyra is an outgoing casual character design while Kris has a more adventurous and independent look. This can even be seen by how Lyra has rounded hair but Kris has sharper hair. I think they're equals but I can see why people prefer one over the other, they're different takes on the same design principles for a female character.

  • @hunterhq295
    @hunterhq295 Рік тому +1

    Marina appeared in journeys recently as a cameo though alongside Jimmy when Lance battled Diantha

  • @conifercommixture6308
    @conifercommixture6308 Рік тому +2

    I love both of them! But you make an absolutely great point. Kris needs her own Kotobukiya figure like Ethan and Lyra!!!
    Awesome video topic by the way! Ever since I found your channel, I've been binging all your content because you go really deep into Pokemon lore and stuff even I as a Pokemon fan never really thought about before! Thanks for always coming up with awesome new Pokemon topic videos!

  • @arrowkeys4691
    @arrowkeys4691 Рік тому +4

    Fun fact: Fun fact due to Lyra's existence there is actually more female mc's than males.

  • @johngold42
    @johngold42 Рік тому +12

    I really like both of them and I would really like to see a Johto remake with the unova dynamic of three protagonists

  • @MrMoustache144
    @MrMoustache144 Рік тому +7

    Kris has cooler hair and eye color but I enjoy Lyra's outfit.

  • @MesmerizingEyesXOXO
    @MesmerizingEyesXOXO Рік тому +4

    I definitely love kris so much! :3 Not only was she the first female playable character but she has a good mix of be a really cool skater girl why still being feminine at the same time! I definitely agree that for some reason they made kris more of a girly character in the anime where as Lyra, dispite looking more conventionally feminine, is more Tom boyish which I thought was really interesting. I like both of them as characters. :3

  • @SifiriSangolez
    @SifiriSangolez Рік тому +1

    These outfits look pretty familiar...
    "Volo has appeared"
    *NONONONONONONONONO*

  • @Tobunari
    @Tobunari Рік тому +2

    I want to point out that the Anime episodes with Jimmy/Marina/Vincent were originally a special, that never got dubbed until way later, hence why the animation matched the late Johto episodes more than when it was released in English which was... I don't remember but mid Hoenn or early Sinnoh

  •  Рік тому +3

    Justice for Kris

  • @Itsjaehee
    @Itsjaehee Рік тому

    7:44 awoke some nostalgia inside of me that I forgot I had

  • @Survivor1547
    @Survivor1547 Рік тому +1

    Nice you added a Volo Reference😉

  • @VampPhoenix99
    @VampPhoenix99 Рік тому +1

    Ah, finally, I've found a channel that talks about Masters lore! Not enough people seem to.

  • @dychrisshandonsmith1242
    @dychrisshandonsmith1242 Рік тому +1

    Keep it up on your work and this video and channel

  • @loganrobson8624
    @loganrobson8624 Рік тому +5

    I’ve always preferred Kris

  • @user-nm3dh5io2b
    @user-nm3dh5io2b Рік тому +1

    Ok tbh i love the small theory thing near the end

  • @EpicNerdsWithCameras
    @EpicNerdsWithCameras Рік тому +1

    Something that I really liked when it comes to the Masters versions of these characters is that Kris seems to take a lot of cues from her interpretation in the manga. There, she's the character who takes the job of completing the Pokedex most seriously, to the point that by the end of the Johto arcs she had caught every non-legendary Pokemon and completed the pokedex. The theme of her caring more about researching Pokemon than battle with them is one that I was happy to see make it into the game.

  • @RoboBlastoise
    @RoboBlastoise Рік тому +1

    I’ve been thinking about a future Pokémon legends game and I’d personally like to see a Pokémon legends game in ancient hoenn for the reason of Groudon and Kyogre fighting and how it would have affected ancient hoenn I can’t be the only one who would want to see this as I can imagine a less flooded hoenn only to start getting flooded with the two legends fighting…

  • @kawaiisamsam45
    @kawaiisamsam45 Рік тому +2

    I definitely prefer Kris over Lyra in design only because Kris has that "cool" look to her and of course, Kris is my first ever female protag. When I first got Cyrstal, I was so excited to be able to play as a girl for once.

  • @omarmendez0402
    @omarmendez0402 Рік тому +1

    It's like Pac-Mom replace Ms. Pac-Man in Pac Man World Re-pac

  • @nickonerd
    @nickonerd Рік тому +4

    Crystal itself had a different story, I just assumed that the remakes for DS just made the different female choice because it wasn't based on the focus of Crystal's story... because the whole game was this fanfic around Suicune and the legendary dogs.

  • @TaeSunWoo
    @TaeSunWoo Рік тому +2

    I’m playing Crystal for the first time right now so this hits different

  • @fritomusic7832
    @fritomusic7832 Рік тому +2

    Crystal and Lyra arelike Calem, both are more overlooked protagonists who get overlooked since they have the least designs out of any player characters. And are competing against two of the most iconic player character Gold and Serena.

  • @dr.trousers6101
    @dr.trousers6101 Рік тому +1

    Is no one gonna talk about the 1 framed image at 1:08 or around there?

  • @bagusilham4019
    @bagusilham4019 Рік тому +2

    Kris PokeMas has take same interest with Kris on Her PokeSpe Character. They mostly into Pokemon research and want to become Profesor someday

  • @driftingswordsmanzer
    @driftingswordsmanzer Рік тому +6

    Kris was always my favorite and to have her replaced, just frustrated me to no end. I accept Lyra now, but won’t say I’m still a little salty. Kris was amazing in the manga. She has one of my favorite Pokémon on her team arcanine.

  • @kiannielopez93
    @kiannielopez93 Рік тому +17

    Lyra is my favorite cause although I was alive for the release of pokemon crystal I hadn't yet realized my love of pokemon. I just loved lyra and her design so much. I especially loved her big hat.

  • @acidp0p
    @acidp0p Рік тому +1

    I feel like it's the same situation as Gary and Blue, that they're the same character but like in diffrrent universes

  • @trentonbates3114
    @trentonbates3114 Рік тому

    I'm glad someone is covering the in game lore last person I watched do this was maxx ezzy

  • @AlexDayz
    @AlexDayz Рік тому +4

    You haven’t read the Pokémon adventures manga? I highly recommend! It’s one of my favorite depictions of the Pokémon works aside from the games. And Red actually talks in these

    • @GatorEX
      @GatorEX  Рік тому +2

      I’ve read the first part following Red lawyer year, but I haven’t had the opportunity to keep going, though I did love what I’ve read so far!

  • @quinsegers7310
    @quinsegers7310 Рік тому +4

    I dont hate Lyra, but the disappointment that we didn't get Kris when the remakes dropped was quite measurable amongst I and my peers.

  • @noireisbest6786
    @noireisbest6786 Рік тому +5

    Kris was easily my favorite.

  • @SJrad
    @SJrad Рік тому +2

    Leaf and green / blue(JP) are in a similar situation too. …well before we just assumed that green and leaf are just counterparts where one is from the manga and the the other from the games, but then Pokémon lets go pikachu and eevee happened and now both green and leaf exist in the games

    • @kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214
      @kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Рік тому +3

      They still are Counterparts man, Just like Gold and Ethan and the other Protagonists that changes names

  • @MousaThe14
    @MousaThe14 Рік тому +4

    Crystal is probably the Pokemon game I played the most and even as a dude I always picked Kris because she had a cool design and because Crystal was her game. I will always prefer her because my attachment to Crystal and because she just looks cooler than Lyra

  • @josemmz
    @josemmz Рік тому +4

    Kris is definitely my favorite Pokemon games protagonist ❤️

  • @scarletrobin
    @scarletrobin Рік тому +3

    I was so disappointed they changed out Kris for Lyra. Lyra just seems like a half-baked Pippi Longstocking ripoff while Kris had more originality

  • @CuteZi
    @CuteZi Рік тому +3

    Lyra's design is my personal favorite. Kris's isn't bad, but I think she could benefit from a redesign.

  • @dychrisshandonsmith1242
    @dychrisshandonsmith1242 Рік тому +1

    Thanks you for your video and channel

  • @re.n8208
    @re.n8208 3 місяці тому

    He hasn't fully read Pokemon Adventures ! * gasp! * x)
    (On a more serious note I love that video series, keep up the good work ^^)

  • @aaronli7148
    @aaronli7148 Рік тому +1

    In the Gold Silver and Crystal manga Crystal(The Character based odd of Kris) just gets a cool hat in the Heart Gold an Soul silver manga

  • @SSBBPOKEFAN
    @SSBBPOKEFAN Рік тому +9

    I love these character analysis videos. Mayhaps we could get one on a Colosseum/XD character? And how Game Freak/DNA are idiots for not including them as a sure-fire money printer for Masters?
    Don't lie. You'd pay ALL THE MONEY to roll for Wes or Miror B.

    • @ailehunter
      @ailehunter Рік тому

      Give it time fam. We just got Ash xD

    • @Darklord_tK
      @Darklord_tK Рік тому

      Bro wes is the best pokemon protagonist if he was added to masters i would start playing it again

    • @ailehunter
      @ailehunter Рік тому

      @@Darklord_tK its better to play now to make way for him

    • @TsuriaDragon
      @TsuriaDragon Рік тому

      Yush been wanting to see Pokémon Collosuem characters be added to Pokémon Masters

  • @mechashadow
    @mechashadow Рік тому

    The labcoat on her hints that she was meant to be a researcher all along which was the route the manga took and was put into masters naturally.
    The mangakas have said they have access to character bibles that are used for the game like how Silver was revealed to be Giovanni's son before Heartgold so they've got that insider info.

  • @OpheliaTerat
    @OpheliaTerat Рік тому +2

    I prefer Kris because of her tomboyish style, but I like Lyra's hair/eye color more. When I was a kid playing Heart Gold, her brown hair and eyes made it easier to self insert. If Lyra looked more tomboyish then I think I'd prefer her over Kris.

  • @SpookyDeerArt
    @SpookyDeerArt Рік тому

    my first game was platinum, so i didn't grow up with them aside from their occasional appearance in the anime (and where i lived, they didn't air much of the side series with gold) and i didn't play hgss until i was an adult. i also haven't played masters. i knew of them from the media i saw featuring them online, but was never exposed organically to them in canon. saying this because my opinions are basically entirely based on their appearances; i like the 90's biker kid aesthetic kris has a lot and the blue/teal of her hair pairs really nicely with her biker shorts imo. i like lyra's outfit because it always reminded me of hello kitty, which is a cute aesthetic to go for when making a pokemon trainer. i love fanworks where i see them interact with each other as well as other trainers and their pokemon! there's this one artist i follow who has a whole AU for the trainers starting with red, blue, and green and seeing them interact in it is really fun. was excited to watch this because of how little i know about these two, very informative!

  • @BusterBuizel
    @BusterBuizel Рік тому +4

    Fun fact: the VA for Sygna Suit Lyra voiced the secondary protagonist “Prez” in the flight action game Project Wingman

    • @swift3520
      @swift3520 Рік тому +2

      wait her sygna suit has a different VA?

  • @peteartieda58
    @peteartieda58 Рік тому

    I hope you make a series where the appearance video game version protagonists in the anime is discussed.

  • @panamajack5972
    @panamajack5972 Рік тому +4

    Only blue haired person I'll ever respect

  • @WarmLillie
    @WarmLillie Рік тому +13

    I can’t Lyra and I want to make this Crystal clear now… I love both designs.
    I think it’s kinda adorable that Marina fit Crystal blue version unique. But in Pokémon Master is chief kiss and made me favor Kris.
    That dress is beautiful.
    Celeby dress is cool, also omg is that?!!!