Here We Go Again! Can The Subaru Crosstrek Conquer Cliffhanger 1.0?
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
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( tfloffroad.com/ ) The Subaru Crosstrek is back! It struggled a bit in our last off-road excursion, but how well can it tackle Cliffhanger? Here's another look at how Subaru's smallest crossover fares off-road!
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#Subaru #Crosstrek #Offroad
![2021 Subaru Crosstrek | Is It The Best Crossover Yet? [OFF-ROAD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oPt1hUpWg_Y/mqdefault.jpg)
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@@daletowert It's actually because of Canadian law. A giveaway cannot use pure luck to determine who wins. There must be at least some element of skill involved, according to the Canadian Competition Act. To remove the element of chance, sponsors narrow the field of potential winners by requiring a skill-testing question. You'll see that clause on every sweepstakes that allows Canadian citizens to win.
@@daletowert Yes understandable, a good rule of thumb is if you see a stupid clause in something odds are it's because of an equally stupid law :)
What are you guys trying to test the Honda passport? And where is the test on the outback wilderness?
Initially I thought Tommy was a little awkward as a reviewer when he started but he's become my favorite reviewer on TFL.
Yeah i think he finally found his rhythm because i thought the same.
Most people generally are when doing something new.
Same here but you have to start somewhere. He's really got the hang of it now
It’s like watching Revenge of the Nerds 😂
Honestly doesn't make him less awkward, you are just used to him
The Crosstrek is one of those vehicles that I honestly don’t know how they sell it for the price. A limited model is around $31,000 or so…sunroof, awd, 30+mpg, Harmon kardon sound system, rear seats that can actually seat adults, windshield wiper heaters, side view mirror heaters, heated leather seating, satellite navigation, etc and the list goes on. It’s truly one hell of a package for the price.
Please don't get me wrong I love TFL everything. However the fanbase needs to calm down and get a dose of reality. Subaru's sell well because they offer capability that 85 to 95% of what their customers need. Decent gas mileage, decent ground clearance, wonderful AWD, and practical driving experience. Broken record here but most people, even some of you who won't admit it, have never even taken your Jeeps or 4runners on obstacles demonstrated in this video. It's nice to know you have the capability but let's be honest 90% of us are domesticated toilet paper hoarding civilians. Let's just keep it real.
Well said could not agree more. So many times a reviewer will know a product down because they want the vehicle to be something it was never intended to be. These TFL reviews are great, "real world" examples.
I drove my Jeep Patriot across the country with one of the focuses to drive these trails to compare it to the vehicles that TFL tests here. It did better than the Crosstrek on these trails which definitely answered if I would consider one to replace the Patriot in a few years. If I buy something marketed to be able to drive on trails, I will test it to and beyond that capability. CVT and slow speed trail driving are not a good combo. Operating at lower RPM than the torque converter lockup tends to overheat these CVT’s. In my experience, CVT fluid health has a much narrower margin of error than regular geared auto transmissions. Take it on a few trails, burn up the CVT fluid, and it dies a young death.
I had a 2012 Patriot with the CVT and it had the same issues that plagued this Crosstrek in slow speed crawling scenarios. It would bog down. At the top of long climbs, you could smell the transmission.
Got a 2016 Patriot later with a regular 6spd auto and it doesn’t overheat or bog down as bad.
All this to say, alot of what the Crosstrek offers is offroad lip service to those who tease themselves about going to the mountains/desert. When they actually try out the Crosstrek to do the things in the videos, it can’t handle it and they have to get rescued or at best accelerate the death of their vehicle. The same could be said about the Patriot, but at least it was offered with recovery points, functional steel skid plates, good Approach/breakover/departure angles, and a traction control system that works well even with two wheels off the ground.
Yeah you're comparing a CVT made from Fiat vs a Subaru CVT which is very well-built so you can't really compare the two with off-road situations. I would still think the Subaru would do a lot better than the Jeep Patriot.@@letour32rr
Tommy really nailed this review. Very comprehensive and fair analysis. Subaru makes a great car, but they need to stop promoting the Crosstrek as some sort of mountain goat.
Agreed
I got the feeling they timed that whole goat thing with the release of the bronco sport and goat modes.
They don’t do such a thing. Look on their website
No what they need to do is get the manual transmission version and prove once and for all it's the damn transmission holding it back.
I'm not really a subaru fan but back in the late 90s early 2000s, before the CVT they were pretty damn capable, lots of video proof here on UA-cam.
@@andrewmeehan6151 They make it sound very capable and this is a basic obstacle that it shouldn’t have gotten stuck on.
I'm my eyes this was a fair review, I own the 21 Crosstrek sport, I have a lift and all terrain tires. I also know that it's not a true 4x4 but a fuel efficient very light dirt road crossover to my fly fishing spots. If I wanted to actually take it up mtns and true off road I would get a real 4x4. I love my subies but know it's limits. Thanks for the review.
You’ve hit on a good point. The subie is not a true 4x4, but as an owner I feel they still are not getting a fair shake. I would like to see TFL invite a subie owner in who has done limited mods to their car. Say a mild lift and off road tires. Then have them try some of these test roads. Maybe deflate the tires some as well. I think the car would perform much better.
But I have a subie prejudice.
I highly respect this answer.
@@johnphillips1879 Then the review is no longer about factory capability and all bets are off. Also a mild lift would not do much as ground clearance was not the issue here, it was the fact that the subaru simply lacks the grunt to get up obstacles. In a real 4x4, gear reduction through the tcase greatly multiplies torque and gives the vehicle a great mechanical advantage at the cost of speed. A FWD bias AWD vehicle simply lacks this. Also, this particular subaru is already the lifted version of the Outback. I don't belive tires or ground clearance would change these results, the vehicle is just simply designed to excel at different tasks.
@@mildphil yeah even stock a more experienced suburban drive could have done a better job.
Well said Sir. Well said.
I have a Subaru crosstrek (manual transmission) I strongly think it could manage that trail. I think the CVT transmission programming/ software is killing you once you hit the incline and resistance. I'm not local to you or I would offer mine for you to use. Find one and show use how a manual would do compared to the CVT, it would make good content Tommy!
I also had the 5 speed manual. I can confidently say there is no way it could. It's been the worst AWD system (but the most fun to drive) I've used. Completely cuts power when any wheelspin occurs. I got stuck is my steepish driveway that a mazda 3 had no trouble with. I eventually had to get a bigger car and went for the Subaru Tribeca. It is night and day, and is the best AWD ive ever used (5th subaru(.
Manual Crosstrek I have climbed some pretty steep stuff but it's different at higher elevation
@@rickybonn that’s interesting. What year was your cross trek ? Mine is a 2015 and I’ve never had it cut any power ever. I have literally the barebones model. No fancy x-mode or any other off-road tech. Just basic manual awd. The only time I get stuck is when I get high centered.
@@brockjohnson4504 also a 2015. I ended up trading it in, but it was so bad I think something was wrong. I also had a manual 2005 Forester and 2007auto Impreza. These were both fantastic. The Tribeca is in another league though.....but the suspension is tuned and approach angle isn't great so it's still not an off-road beast. In the snow though or steep grades it's incredible.
That's what I'm saying, they always review the cvt when the manual in these is super popular and most of us watching would love to see the manual go
Let's face it: if you want to go off-road, it ain't cutting it. Not even close. But if you need a reliable grocery store AWD car that'll get you out of most situations during the winter and be enough to go at the cottage in the country, it's a pretty tough package to beat considering the MSRP for this Subie.
That's basically what Tommy said almost word for word
The new engine choice on the Crosstrek is a game changer for tackling grades.
There is still a challenge and eventually you will find something too steep for the torque management system because torque vectoring works very well,.. until you run out of torque.
The smaller engine (the 2.0) is the wrong choice for any sort of serious offroad grade that is not relatively flat. The bigger engine means you can get past the torque required to fight the loss in the torque vector braking, and have enough torque left over to actually climb the hill. It really is that simple.
And in this example on the harder hill, you have met the point of equilibrum. It requires all available torque just to stop the wheel spin and have any power left over to climb, but it is not enough to handle that grade because of the loss.
A larger power plant is required for Xmode type systems to overcome their own lossy method of torque vectoring and still have power left over to do the job.
This is exacerbated by the fact that there is no low range so you basically are asking a lot of a little 4 banger. It's not the CVT as much as people think. It is the torque vectoring. Many of these hills would also challenge a standard transmission or a classic automatic in situations where you had several wheels without traction and a low torque motor fighting against the brakes to mitigate wheel spin.
Torque vectoring is accomplished via BRAKING, so you need extra power to keep going after the traction wheel starts getting its share to overcome the braking force PLUS the force of the grade and the terrain.
This WAS a fair test in this instance. At least this time you weren't up against a damn tree root that was half the height of the stock smooth tire with no forward momentum.
And lets be clear. I am not suggesting that the new engine cures the problem, it only gives you MORE capability and allows Xmode to be more effective in more challenging situations.
Really they should offer a Wilderness edition of Crosstrek with lower gearing or a low range, and even the turbo motor. (Im not sure they would put the turbo in so light of a vehicle for liability reasons. People would be ricky racing around and trying to do too much and things would break, which might eventually give them a quality issues reputation).
I hope they trust us to know how to drive our vehicles and give us the option. A raised turbo'd Crosstrek with a lower final gear would be a monster and even with no lockers, the newer Xmode and CVT would Eat both sides of Cliffhanger. It would also get great mileage and be a blast.
I understand why they chose their flagship softroader to introduce the "Wilderness Edition" concept. But we all know that the lightest and smallest Crosstrek combined with enough power and gearing would be the most effective and capable offroader, if that was the ONLY consideration. Personally I need the room of the larger vehicle, but I wish I could make it a Crosstrek on the Weekend if Im on a tiny truck trail.
And I can hear the responses now. WHY NOT JUST GET A REAL OFFROAD CAPABLE VEHICLE LIKE A 4Runner. Well, it's tempting. But the answer is Cost and MPG. I can have almost as much fun for half the cost to buy and less than half the cost to operate. And have superior road handling and a nice cockpit. That speaks volumes. Databyter
@@Databyter Can everything is Good in Everything....??????
This is a Common sense question ⁉️
Should have gotten the 2.5L engine. I know the general mantra is "this is the more affordable one most people will buy" but the 2.5L is the one the community of people watching this video would largely opt to buy.
Absolutely
My thoughts, as well. I'd guess most of the people who gravitate to channels like this know the difference and would not even consider buying a Crosstrek with the 2.0 liter (unless it was for the manual transmission).
Definitely… I have the 2.5 sport model, and I’ve gone on hills that made my butt perk up. The 2.0 is just weak, thats why it had trouble with that hill. Not to mention that the 2.5 sport has two x modes. Also, this the crosstrek they have is 24k? The sport model I have had 2.3k miles on it when I bought it (cert preowned) and I got it for 25900 lol.
@@MarksTech Yeah, I started with a '21 Premium w/manual and no X-Mode(s). It was utterly gutless. Going up a hill on the highway with the car loaded up was dangerous, and now watching this video makes me glad I got the Sport, less than a month later. It does make a difference and the Crosstrek should've gotten the FB25 from the start to separate it from the Impreza.
@@octurbojoe yeah it feels like Subaru went through a "no fun zone" stretch where they killed the XT models and things like the Forester and Crosstrek had barely passable powertrains. At least the Outback still had the 3.6R you could opt for. Now it seems like they're coming out of that inexplicable phase, with the Outback XT and Crosstrek 2.5L optional powertrains. I used to have an '18 Crosstrek, great car overall but I likened it to running vs walking. Walk around your neighborhood and you might say it was pretty much flat, but run it for the first time and you notice there are little hills everywhere. The Crosstrek with the 2.0 felt like it was the runner even with just you in the car. Then load it up with people or gear and it's completely overmatched. It'll get you there but be prepared to watch the rest of traffic fly by.
Can't forget this one has the same sticker as a low end Civic, though. Great value for what you get. I about fractured my jaw on the floor when I saw Tommy's new $33k Wrangler has crank windows, manual locks, and optional AC. A great off road platform but man that definitely feels like you pay a premium to get into the Wrangler world.
Subarus were so much better when you could get them with automatic transmissions and limited slip differential‘s. Wish I still had my ‘96.
My 83 GL with low range was my favorite. I didn't like the automatic Subarus. All mine but one have been standards.
@Jeff Bruce I’ve owned six including my wife’s 2019 Crosstrek. I recently traded in my 2018 outback after driving at two years. I know what I’m talking about.
@Jeff Bruce Have you had a chance to drive a full mechanical drive train Subaru? Very different experience than the modern stuff. Whether it’s deep snow covered Vermont dirt roads, or deep sandy coastal roads they are fantastic!
@Jeff Bruce how is that talking shit? What rock have you been living under? Old school Subarus were really good off road, now they have cvt's and they are no longer good off road.
@Jeff Bruce
i wish they would let yall test the wilderness
Subrau doesn’t currently make a Crosstrek Wilderness…we have them in Canada called the Outdoor and the USA gets the sport ….
Our new 2021 Outdoor has just over three thousand miles and we just love driving it
@@polarbear4686 it has the 183 hp …what do you mean less speed sport ??
@@gobear83 he just means that the outdoor is not as fancy as the Sport when it comes to the spec's... Non of them is comparable to a wilderness. We will see when they bring a Crosstrek wilderness.. it will be a more capable Crosstrek but still be a softroader good for overlanding but by no means like an 4x4 off roader. I don't know why ppl would take there Subarus through such shit. If u take a Crosstrek and put all offroad mods on to make it capable to get up there, i wonder why u don't spend that money on a true 4x4... I love my Crosstrek, i bought it to bring me safe through the Scandinavian winter
@@Asientabs ..morning , the only difference between the Canadian Outdoor and the USA Sport is that they can add a sunroof , we can’t ..to do that we need to go to the premium .
We on the other hand get a heated steering wheel :0)
And according my source ..Subaru isn’t going to make a wilderness Crosstrek..only Forester and Outback
Check out what a Quebec company is building …a real off road Crosstrek. lpaventure.ca/blogs/projects-crosstrek
Dead on honest efforts. The Subaru fanatics should have no complaints about your genuine test here and showing what that vehicle can and cannot do. I like it! Great job Tommy.
The ones that have butthurt complaints are the ones who have too much of a connection to the CVT. I got a manual Subie with a dual-range swap, and chances are, I too would get stuck here also... in high-range. I might barely get up it in low-range, because the FB20 engine is so weak that it probably puts down 100 AWHP and probably a number not far-off from that in torque output in ft-lbs.
I wonder what some aftermarket tires would do in the same situation?
I have a 2020 Crosstrek base cvt. Tires make a world of difference. I’m on a 2” lift and all terrain tires. For the money it off roads pretty dang well
The problem in most of this test was not putting power to the tire on the ground. A better tire wouldn't have made a difference. A more aggressive program would have helped or prevent the problem in the first case with a softer or eliminated sway bar to allow more suspension drop to keep tires on the ground.
Brendan I've been commenting for a while now that they need to test aftermarket A/T's against the stock tires on a variety of vehicles because everyone claims they make a difference. Well, show us. It'd be a video a ton of people would watch and TFL certainly has the resources to make it happen.
A road tire VS a decent A/T like a Wildpeak or K02 isn’t a competition in this environment. You would see a vast improvement on any vehicle. It’s the same as if you compared an economy tire to a race tire on a track. Performance gains are obvious.
@@spyder000069 I wonder if Dual X-Mode with the 2.5L on the Sport would have made any difference here.
Tommy solo reviews are great
I'd live to see how the manual version of subarus do off road
Check out ALNSM OFF-ROAD. A dude in France that runs a manual. There’s a whole community of manual Subys there
ua-cam.com/users/ALNSMOVERLAND
I have a 2017 Crosstrek on ko2 tires, 5 speed manual and I can go almost anywhere I want. My other car is a keep Yj on 35s, and I prefer to take my Subaru. I can hours of off-road desert trails here in Utah and still average 30mpg.
@@Whocaress700 yeah it's unfortunate the manuals in a suby is becoming non existence other than their impreza
I talked to them in the comments section back when they said they were buying this Subaru, and they told me they're going with the CVT because it's the most popular option.
I asked them if they can find someone near them with a manual transmission version of the same car and do a side-by-side comparison, but I'm not sure they're interested.
@@deejayimm I got a dual-range swap and am willing to travel to Colorado for them to try an earlier Crosstrek with this DR 5MT. But based on your attempt, it seems a manual transmission is not even something they are the slightest bit interested in testing.
A shame, really. I might just have to go there to TFL Cliffhanger 1.0 myself to verify if a dual-range manual Subaru can make it.
Watching you guys drive off road kills me.
i am on my second crosstrek and have a forester now also. excellent vehicles that offer excellent drivability in a terrific value package. they inspire confidence in all weather conditions and mild callichi roads.
As a former Subaru owner (2003 WRX wagon), I would love to see you guys buy a WRX or STI and convert it into a mountain road rally car. I know they’re hard to find and so many used ones have lived hard lives. But you’d get the turbo engine, which helps in the mountains, and a far better awd system. I loved having the limited slip center and rear diffs, which was great for drifting in snow/ice/rain and I would think it could be fun for people to see how it would perform on the mountain roads.
Great review! I’d love to see how your new Jeep does on that hill, for reference. My wife has a Subaru Forester, and it’s a great snow vehicle…that’s really all we use it for!
That's honestly what the AWD was designed for
@@Tallnerdyguy it definitely excels in snow!
CVT transmissions are terrible for any offloading. Great for driving to work in but not for gravel
Any automatic is really
I guess ATV's and Side-by-sides are terrible off-road.
Agreed
I want to see him try a CVT with paddle shifters. I have the 21 Forester Sport with more HP and paddle shifters. They make a Crosstrek with same engine and transmission.
Have you seen Driving Sports TV coverage of the same model year?
ua-cam.com/video/KL7tFtfFVEw/v-deo.html
It’s grandpa Subaru from the 1980’s would have no issues.
Or from 2009, 2010 Subaru stopped using low transfer cage.
I have a 2010 outback 😒
I was kinda pissed off about that.
Grandpa from 1980? Thanks for making a 40 year old feel like grandpa
This is why i like your channel so much . Total honesty !!!! By the way, i am an Norwegian, living in south Brazil. My daily driver is a Jeep Renegade Trailhawk with a 2.0 turbo diesel, slightly lifted with Yokohama Geolander AT, and in my ocupation as a nature photographer i use a Jeep Liberty 2012 with a 2" lift and Hankook Dynapro MT. Not a very appreciated car in the jeep comunity, but it has never failed me, and always taken me to where i want to go.
Am I the only one who finds it strange that lots of crossover or Subie owners expect their cars to be able to do what 4Runners or Jeeps do? Dear future Subie owners, instead of buying a crossover and getting a lift and tires and body armor and lockers. Just save yourself the headache and buy a real 4X4. You'll thank me later. Don't buy a Bronco Sport when you really want a Bronco. Save for a few more months and get the car you really know you want.
true dat
Exactly! I have a stock 4runner sr5 4wd with all-terrains. In 4lo with atrac I could go much further than what a fully modified crosstrek or outback can go, probably for the same price overall and still under warranty.
I'm the rare one who will adamantly run stock height and still go off-road. I wouldn't mind a locker, but I know what a crossover vehicle is, a car-based (unibody) vehicle with factory suspension lift and usually some slight changes to make them dirt road capable on easy to moderate forest roads.
If I wanted a real hardcore off-road vehicle, I would have gotten something with a ladder frame.
But I don't. I want the car-like handling and safety but with the added ground clearance a crossover vehicle provides to allow me to take on most forest roads. If I run low on clearance, I can either do the silly thing and rely on my added rock rails, or just turn around and find another place to explore (because I'm more interested in the adventure than driving a hardcore off-road rig). And unlike a real off-road vehicle that has a ladder frame, I may still be permitted to attend a track event. (Yes, really.)
I've owned a couple Subarus, and I'm under no illusion that it's good for anything other than very mild over-landing and the snow. They're underpowered, and the CVT sucks.
@@toddfeltman3748 The turbocharged ones are not underpowered, but the CVT ruins any semblance of potential capability in higher elevations and/or steep obstacles.
I think this is a fair and balanced review highlighting where the car excels and what it's limits are. For the commentators saying it is not a realistic test for how it is used did you even listen? In the real world people are buying into the marketing and pushing these types of vehicles past their capability. This video could almost be a user guide for new or would be owners to calibrate their expectations.
This only reinforces my choice of getting one with a manual transmission was the right call. I need to take this on with my low-range 5MT.
This is a popular choice and it is nice that it is offered. But unfortunately it does not solve the problem of too small of an engine with not enough torque competing with lossy torque vectoring. Torque vectoring is a brilliant compromise. But if you are going to do this sort of thing and not just commuting, a standard transmission will not cure the problem, you need a bigger motor. Even tho it is a modest size up, the new motor offered for the Crosstrek will make a dramatic difference in some capabilities because it has EXTRA power, whereas the original offerering had barely enough, and NOT enough for offroading. Databyter
@@Databyter Did you not catch that I have a dual-range? I have a real low-range swapped in, it's not the stock single-range transmission.
@@AWDfreak No, I missed that. Nice mod. That makes all the difference.
Sweet, so you dumped a gear in the 6 speed and swapped in a lower 1st (or whatever you want to call it) for climbing?
@@volvo09 It's a low-range, ALL gears can either have normal high-range gearing standard Subaru manual transaxles have, or the low-range reduction that reduces the top speed of all gears and trades it for improved torque.
And yeah, compared to the 5MT-based 6MT, the DR 5MT places said low-range reduction gearing where a 6th gear might normally be at.
Got 4000 miles on my 2021 Crosstrek Sport. The extra 30+ hp sold me. Upon delivery I lifted mine 2" and added a skid plate and put on Toyo AT3's in 225/65 17" .. I have 12" at the rear pumpkin. On a fairly mild trip to Moab I was able to break it in and tackle some easier trails .. I am impressed so far .. and I'm getting 30mpg.
I have a ‘16 crosstrek with the same engine so I enjoyed watching this review. I think you did a good job explaining everything and putting the car through its paces. Where you’re mistaken is when you start talking about marketing and advertising it as an off-road vehicle. I’ve never seen a picture or commercial on the website where they drive it up the hill with wheels off the ground. I’ve also never seen them climbing over boulders with the exception of the New Outback wilderness.
People need to adjust their expectations when buying one of these cars. Like you said, it’s not a 4Runner or a jeep. Unibody vehicles aren’t designed to be taken on serious off-road conditions. The only reason the bronco sport is able to do the Hillclimb it’s because it’s a loaded model with the optional engine, off-road tires, and differential/transmission cooling.
I certainly haven't seen every off-road marketing campaign by Subaru, but I feel safe in guessing that 100% of them hit on 97% of the kinds of roads Tommy drove in this very video (and lauded the Crosstrek for it's excellent performance in the performance in the process). I'm going to have to do some interweb searching to find all this "Mountain Goat Rock Crawler" marketing material that makes everyone so mad. [quick cut to google search's top 3 video results] So far I've seen "Barn Wedding" which has NOTHING close to even the first Cliff Hanger that the Crosstrek scaled no problem. Then there's, "Girl's Trip" where the only off road stuff was a little gravel at the end. Subaru Canada's "Born to Adventure" spot is definitely more aggressively off-road focused, but again, nothing Tommy wouldn't have successfully navigated here too. If your biggest problem with Subaru is their supposed marketing material, and if that marketing material doesn't actually do what you think it does, is that actually a fair critique? (Also, I too would be curious to see a comparison against similarly sized/priced competitors like the RAV4, CX-30, etc.)
Marc, unfortunately, TFL as well as many others like them tend to mistake fanboy assertions and their own wishful thinking about a brand for manufacturer claims. They use this Mandela effect sort of scenario to make unfounded claims and get others that they know will join the fray as haters of the brand to jump on board increasing views and likes thereby increasing revenue. They don't care about what's fair or what's right or accurate. They only care about views. So they do something a manufacturer never even remotely asserts about their car and then pretend there's fault with the car. Fanboys of other brands bash and belittle even when they've never dropped a wheel of their "real" 4x4 off the pavement and have no idea what it would or wouldn't do. It's not just Subaru they do this with either. It's just that Subaru decided they'd had enough with their B.S and pulled press vehicles from them and they've been bitter ever since.
You showed us the truth here, insofar as Subaru capability is concerned. Good job! Now I will suggest that you never give the Subaru a lift. At most, put relatively light weight all terrain tires on it and air them down when you nearly reach the rational limits to what a crossover can do. The 8.7 inch Subarus are great, efficient daily driver vehicles that handle bad weather and weekend outdoor adventures. They are not “off roaders” which is a good thing. Most folks, myself included, shouldn’t be driving 4 Runners around every day. Neither should we expect our Subarus to act like 4 Runners on steep rocky inclines. I don’t mind hiking instead of driving everywhere.
I think way too many people are trying to make Subarus into vehicle based overlanders in rough terrain. They put way too much weight on them. It doesn’t work well, that’s what ladder frame trucks are for.
Regardless, I don’t believe Subaru misrepresents their vehicles. They don’t show their own vehicles doing things they cannot do. Rather, I see a lot of enthusiasts try stunts with Subarus they were not designed for, as though Subarus were JKs or something. Subarus do in fact traverse most forest roads quite well. They aren’t meant for the off roader looking for obstacles to conquer.
I’ve owned both types of vehicles and drove both off the pavement. The Subarus are great for what they were designed for.
Okey, as a Crosstrek owner, it is not an off-roader, it is just lifted Impreza, and that is just what I want(and what people who buy this car should be expected))
And the car will get you out of a lot of situations that a normal car cannot !
My old Subaru GL had low range. Think about how easy it would be to simply have a locking center and rear diff. Traction control is total frustration.
The problem has nothing to do with the traction control. The problem is the CVT transmission. In many off road situations the ECU cuts power to avoid spinning wheels and burning up the CVT.
p.s. I also had a circa 1990 Subaru GL wagon. It was awesome in Low range.
@@donaldmei8797 Install a rear diff-locker for just a few hundred $$ and the CVT would likely haul the Crosstrek up that trail fine. It's the traction control system that's cutting the power.
Install a winch too, and then you likely won't ever need a recovery truck to unstick you.
Thank you for an excellent review of what that Crosstrek can/cannot do. But I think Subaru promotes it as exactly what you have done here, light offroading to get people to campsites and trailheads. People need to know the limits of their vehicle before heading into the wilderness. And they can start by watching videos like this one!
Subaru HQ will love this review.
Great job Tommy!
If you move the shifter to manual mode, you get a tiny bit better gearing for better hill climbing.
As a Crosstrek owner (2023), I found this to be a very fair review. I used to teach an offroad driving course and was an offroad club president for many years. These Subarus are wonderful for what they are, but they are NOT suited (stock) for more heavy offroading. Personally, I have the Land Rover for that. If you need to eat up miles with good gas mileage and deal with snow, rain, or adverse conditions, the Subaru is hard to beat.
Subaru giving its AWD cars a cvt and x-mode is like having Usain bolt run a sprint for you and giving him performance-enhancing drugs and then giving him slippery leather-soled shoes that are 5 sizes too large
Hahaha
spot on lmaooo
Clown shoes
I am contemplating purchasing the limited version of the Crosstrek next Summer.
I really appreciate your review as it gives me peace of mind in my future purchase. Texas should be easy for this Crosstrek.
I love Subaru cars, I have a 2014 Forester. However, I can't stand the fact that Subaru cut you guys off to press vehicles just because of a bad review. Like I get it, it's their company and you're not entitled to any cars from manufacturers, but to cut you off just because of a review is short sighted IMO.
In a lot of ways I agree with you. However, TFL is well known for testing cars in silly situations that they were never designed for and then acting as if there is something wrong with the car. Subaru doesn't need TFL's help to sell cars and cutting TFL off from press cars hasn't hurt them one bit. To me this is a much more fair review than almost anything else TFL has done. If they were all like this, just a fair accounting of is the car capable of doing what the manufacturer advertises it will do, not what fanboys claim or what reviewers wish it would do, then Subaru would still be sending them cars.
@@davep2945 tfl made their point that many people do what subarus aren't meant to do. Maybe because of their advertising. They take it to its limits and compare to vehicles in its class. I see subaru blacklisting them as ignoring their complaints, and not working on improving them.
@@Jor0716 no, its because they damaged one of their cars and subaru does not like that
@@rallysauruswrex is that actually why though? Do we know that for sure?
@@Jor0716 yes, they did talk about it before. tfl scratched their 2015 outback and subaru went to their garage and took away their other press cars
you should try it in an old crown vic and see if it will do it!
I had one, a 2 door 85, lol. It would have made it up.
I would be curious to see how a Mazda CX-30 would tackle this same test,
Same, along w the rav4 and trailblazer activ. Three way competition!
@@TheOffroadCamper Maybe with AWD and a manual. But I know most manufacturers just don't bother with that combo.
@@TheOffroadCamper The CX-30 and the Crosstrek are around the same size, but the Crosstrek is larger in every dimension.
If only they still had the dual range tranny. Real frustrating part is knowing that overseas, specifically in Australia, there are shops the specialize in swapping in dual range trannies from the early '00 into newer vehicles.
That, a turbo or supercharger, and LSDs would transform this.
@Jeff Bruce There's a LOT of space between cities.....
@Jeff Bruce And back roads. Paved and unpaved.
We love our bright orange Crosstrek. It’s way more comfortable and better on the street for daily use than a Jeep is and we can sleep in it. It’s never going to be a rock crawler but we go camping and off roading in it all the time and have never gotten stuck. It’s a great little car.
The new engine choice on the Crosstrek is a game changer for tackling grades.
There is still a challenge and eventually you will find something too steep for the torque management system because torque vectoring works very well,.. until you run out of torque.
The smaller engine (the 2.0) is the wrong choice for any sort of serious offroad grade that is not relatively flat. The bigger engine means you can get past the torque required to fight the loss in the torque vector braking, and have enough torque left over to actually climb the hill. It really is that simple.
And in this example on the harder hill, you have met the point of equilibrum. It requires all available torque just to stop the wheel spin and have any power left over to climb, but it is not enough to handle that grade because of the loss.
A larger power plant is required for Xmode type systems to overcome their own lossy method of torque vectoring and still have power left over to do the job.
This is exacerbated by the fact that there is no low range so you basically are asking a lot of a little 4 banger. It's not the CVT as much as people think. It is the torque vectoring. Many of these hills would also challenge a standard transmission or a classic automatic in situations where you had several wheels without traction and a low torque motor fighting against the brakes to mitigate wheel spin.
Torque vectoring is accomplished via BRAKING, so you need extra power to keep going after the traction wheel starts getting its share to overcome the braking force PLUS the force of the grade and the terrain.
This WAS a fair test in this instance. At least this time you weren't up against a damn tree root that was half the height of the stock smooth tire with no forward momentum.
And lets be clear. I am not suggesting that the new engine cures the problem, it only gives you MORE capability and allows Xmode to be more effective in more challenging situations.
Really they should offer a Wilderness edition of Crosstrek with lower gearing or a low range, and even the turbo motor. (Im not sure they would put the turbo in so light of a vehicle for liability reasons. People would be ricky racing around and trying to do too much and things would break, which might eventually give them a quality issues reputation).
I hope they trust us to know how to drive our vehicles and give us the option. A raised turbo'd Crosstrek with a lower final gear would be a monster and even with no lockers, the newer Xmode and CVT would Eat both sides of Cliffhanger. It would also get great mileage and be a blast.
I understand why they chose their flagship softroader to introduce the "Wilderness Edition" concept. But we all know that the lightest and smallest Crosstrek combined with enough power and gearing would be the most effective and capable offroader, if that was the ONLY consideration. Personally I need the room of the larger vehicle, but I wish I could make it a Crosstrek on the Weekend if Im on a tiny truck trail.
And I can hear the responses now. WHY NOT JUST GET A REAL OFFROAD CAPABLE VEHICLE LIKE A 4Runner. Well, it's tempting. But the answer is Cost and MPG. I can have almost as much fun for half the cost to buy and less than half the cost to operate. And have superior road handling and a nice cockpit. That speaks volumes. Databyter
You are spot on, I pull my hair out every time the say the PCM is cutting power to save the CVT ,or that the CVT dosen't have a torque converter, heck it's got a torque converter with a lock up clutch, the problem with the CVT is they only have a limited range of possible ratios so Subaru goes with higher ratios for fuel economy. Gutless engine+ high gearing+ using brakes to control wheel slip= making noise and not moving.
@@daviddorminey1434 I pull my hair out every time they chose the wrong engines, the wrong hitches and the wrong trims to make the wrong points when it comes to Subaru, a brand they clearly don't identify with or understand the use case for.
Great video. Now that you have a couple of videos of this Crosstrek with CVT struggling on hills, it would be really interesting if you could find a manual transmission Crosstrek to borrow (any recent year) and compare the manual on the same trails and hills. I know the manual has a different 4WD system and of course should not have the CVT "nannies" cutting throttle all the time.
You guys should compare it against the old Subaru Baja and Baja vs Outback wilderness
The manual does not have these issues. I’ve sent my crosstrek up some crazy trails, snow mud and all. 1st gear, KO2 and average 30mpg
That’s good to hear! I’ve got a 2021 trek with 215/75r15 toyo open country tires. I’ve mostly stuck to forest service roads, nothing super crazy. I’ll have to find some more challenging terrain to put it to the test!
Bwahahaha!! Sure you have.
@@thejenkins7038 make sure you have cell service...so you can call for help when it gets stuck!🤣🤣
I was always curious how the car would handle with some weight in the car such as camping supplies and people.
You should do a real world test in conditions that car owners encounter.
Such as:
Waiting for the shop to finish working on the transmission of a 3 year old Chrysler Jeep
Getting a sprinkle of snow and feeling the Ford F-150 pickup truck slide into a curb with all the weight up front
Getting the bill for fixing the over complex electronic system on a 2022 GMC
Trading in a BMW for half retail after two years
Making the monthly payment on a 45k 4runner
Parking any truck, in a packed Home Depot lot, and opening the door to get out
Craning your neck to see out of tiny windows
Filling the tank of a house sized grocery getter
Listening to wind from a never used rooftop tent on the way to work.
People buy stupid cars for dumb reasons. Stop defining performance on dealer specs and “that one hill”. Otherwise, good show.
It's the emissions and mpg requirements that force them into cvt which is purposely limited so as to not roast the belt. I'm sooooo interested to see what the 6spd would do.
If that's true, then every car manufacturer would be 'forced' into a CVT. It was a conscious business decision by Subaru, no one forced them to use it.
I've got a '19 forester sport that's been lifted, with all terrains, and skid plates and I've been impressed with it. Didn't buy it to do what a jeep or 4runner can do, but for softroading and light overlanding while still being a good commuter vehicle that also didn't cost an arm and a leg. To that end, I did take it up to an OHV park at a nearby mountain with a few other guys just to see what it was capable of, and it took on every obstacle I put it up against without issue with xmode on. Granted, I'm on the east coast so I won't be dealing with any high elevation issues so in this case, it's perfect for what I was looking for.
Light offroading is an understatement. Its a fkn car.
I have seen that in most places reviewers have had problems with the Crosstrek is when one of the tires on a steep loose section of the courses gets up against a rock, or steep hole, that acts like a chock block you would use to keep your car stationary when jacking it up.
For the price...
There is no real competition
Unless you want to tow
@@Tallnerdyguy you want a vehicle to tow at this price point ? or do you have a better one ?
There is, but i'm not sure you have it in North America. It's called the Dacia Duster (or Renault). It's has a lower price, it's very simple but an amazing vehicle for real offroading and not only trails
@@sgeomai1 no - its not in North America .. also the standard safety in Subaru is more superior to that of Duster .
@@venkatnbt The active safety systems, for sure. The duster is a low-cost car after all.
They need a physical 1st gear like Toyota does on their CVTs. That would probably make a huge difference!
Pretty fair - it does really well on the types of roads and trails it's designed for, less so on steeper stuff.
I'd love to see a wilderness version of the Crosstrek.
I've owned a couple of Subies, and I'm under no delusion that they're good for anything other than very mild over-landing, and snowy roads. They're underpowered, and the CVT blows. Software can only do so much, and then you'd better have some hardware to back it up. Thank you for a very fair review!
It's a very capable vehicle, but it's not a rock crawler and if you treat it like it is, it isn't a fair review.
Ps. I feel like at this point y'all just like to hate on Subaru instead of giving them a fair assessment. If you can hit the gas on your other full-sized suv reviews to make it up obstacles, you should do it here to!
I just ordered a Crosstrek Sport as a commuter car for the wife. We test drove several other crossovers. For the price I think the Crosstrek felt like the best value. I wanted to like the Bronco Sport, but I kept feeling drivetrain vibrations (my wife felt it too). I walked away pretty disappointed. The RAV4 Adventure & TRD feel great, but I felt like the price tag was a little too high as most dealers are asking $5000 over msrp. We have a Sienna and love it, but for a crossover I wish they were a bit cheaper. Looking forward to taking delivery of the Crosstrek though. I drive an Xterra… so if we need to do any off-roading I have that covered.
I bought the 2021 sport & love it, I work at a jeep dealership & the small jeeps are junk compared to the Subaru ride handling & mpg, I drive aggressively and average 27mpg.
What a great review. Thanks for your hard work 💪
Subaru CVT's do have Torque Converters. I would love to see a turbo Subaru doing that same test, the problem I believe is 2 fold, 1 the 2.0 is Pathetically gutless in low RPMs, 2 CVT's are limited in their range of available gear ratios so they are setup with higher ratios therefore you have a gutless engine with high gearing ,that controls wheel slip by using the brakes. Notice when everything is turned off it spins 2 tires just fine its not "the PCM cutting power to protect the CVT" it doesn't have the Torque to the wheel to make the hyper aggressive makeshift traction control work, if everything was the same but it had a true locker in the rear it would do much better.
I believe you're the only one who understands this. I live at roughly 1000' elevation with easy access to upwards of 6000' elevation in less than 1.5 hours drive and I had a 2013 Impreza that would do anything the ground clearance and tires would handle even up to 6000'. However, I took it to Colorado and above 8000', especially on any sort of incline where I had to leave from a stop it felt as though the car had about 50 horsepower. Above 10,000' leaving overlooks it took almost 40 seconds to reach 50 MPH. The car is just seriously overpowered to be climbing hills from a stop or low speed at serious elevation. Most people don't get this because they have never experienced it. But if you live below 6000' try a road trip to Colorado and then leave from the top of Independence Pass or try the Pikes Peak highway where you can't carry momentum into those steep grades and you'll think your car is malfunctioning. Maybe the turbos would be better but turbos still lose power at elevation, just not as much.
I like that you guys got the base model, thank you for buying one to review. Keep up the good work!
As many said they need the manual. Aside from the complaints about the cvt and computer cutting power, the manual has a better AWD system. Old school Subaru full time, the cvt has a fwd based system that is common in crossovers.
How does the jeep renegade trailhawk compare to this?
That CAR is a POS.
It'll breakdown on the highway
Yep, its a director competitor, so hopefully they'll bring one with as a comparison next time!
Great video and honest. We do appreciate that Tommy.
I do think it is funny that Subaru was upset that y'all went and did what they say could be done then threw a fit about you being honest.
I remember that video and the aftermath. Lol
I daily a 2018 crosstrek with a six speed manual. I love this car even though it's cramped for me. I have off roaded it and it was fine no hiccups what so ever.
I don't know how Subaru could have a problem with this one. Really great, honest review.
Any Crosstrek owners with a torq locker living in Colorado, please contact Tommy. Would love to see if that's enough to compensate for the CVT.😊
It won't. The CVT cuts too much power. The Subaru needs better programming, and it won't come from a CVT-equipped Subaru, it would do better with a conventional automatic or manual.
@@AWDfreak Yeah, that's pretty much what I would guess.
I remember the 1st time I did the white rim I asked a park ranger that was driving by in his F250 if they really use the winch a lot and his response was "mostly for Coloradans in Subarus".
Tommy, did you try using manual mode?
I never really see anyone making use of the feature.
I have 17' model yr and have had no problems doing offroading rugged forest roads like fourpeaks here in Az.
I also do not put the vehicle in serious situations.
My buddy had a 2014 forester with a manual and the Subaru drive by wire system would just start cutting power like mad if he had traction control on and so much as spun a tire and was also super lagey. I even noticed the pedal lag at dirt fish rally school in their built STI's the car wouldn't give me power when I asked for it and then when it, I could literally get on the throttle, one Mississippi, and then expect an engine response then in 1k RPM the turbo would think about spooling up. I loved the experience and am grateful to my instructors for teaching me how do do rally things but having to learn to drive around the subaru engine control system was rather annoying.
I love my Crosstrek! I also put some Toyo open country at3’s on it. I’ve taken it on a lot of dirt and trails as well, it has never got me stuck. But I’m definitely looking to sell it next year and buying a Tacoma!!
Finally, someone who is honest about what they have. Hope that all works out for ya! You might miss the MPG and handling, but when you go places your Subie couldn't take you, hopefully you will have validated your vehicle change to a real off-road capable vehicle as a better fit for you and your lifestyle.
@@AWDfreak I’m excited for the change! The Subaru is great but when I’m off-road I never feel like it has the confidence that a true off-roader is, I’m always looking out for big obstacles because it simply can’t do them, or if it does it struggles a lot!! But it has also lead me to very cool spots and it’s a great adventure car but not a true off roader.
Get yourself a Taco
Put this crosstreck against your new wrangler
That costs nearly 15 grand more? LOL No comparison.
no offense but the tires setup are wrong to begin with.
My crosstrek was able to climb Tombstone Hill in one go with all terrain tires. It was so easy that my friend struggling with his ford ranger at first try
You get what you pay for and you should know your vehicles capabilities before attempting something risky...my 09 limited outback with the 2.5l is still running at 197 all original parts and I live in maine where rust will eat your car before the engine fails. These vehicles are very capable and reliable for the price.
That's what I said in another video on the Subaru. He's good in town, period. May Subaru stop being offended by this and improve his system. Wait...I figured out why the Subaru couldn't climb. It's because of the ants.
The Subaru couldn’t climb because they got the cheapest model, the 2.0 engine with only 1 x mode. Had they spend 2k more, they could have gotten the sport model with a 2.5l engine, 30 more HP, and two x modes. Ive done hills similar to the one in the video when I was at the blue ridge mountains. The 2nd x mode really shines and brings the car to life.
Not sure what kind of off roading they expect with a 150 HP car thats AWD and costs 22k. For 22k, id be thankful for ANY overlander.
It’s not ‘weird’ to notice this channel is anti-Subaru. Subaru isn’t offended by this channel. They sell so many cars, for a good reason. The reason Subaru may not want to partner with these guys is because of what I mentioned earlier. They buy the cheapest model of Subaru (in its class), and take it off-roading.
And as I’ve mentioned, for its price of 22k, what other brand new car thats worth 22k will do what they tried to do? You’d be hard pressed to even find a brand new car thats 22k and has AWD.
Subaru AWD system = "Oh you wanted the wheel with more grip to get the power? We thought you wanted the wheel in the air to spin"
I'm a Subaru fan and I like the Crosstrek a lot. I want my 22 year old son to buy one as it's a great choice for Minnesota winters. That said, I'm pretty sure my Cherokee Trailhawk would conquer that last hill with ease.
I have a lifted Jeep Wj and my wife and I don’t do any serious off-roading much anymore plus the mpg is horrible like 10-13 on the highway and I’ve been really interested in the crosstrek it’s good to see these videos!
I watched "driving sports TV" drive one & had tires lifted tettering & made it up a trail, I think maybe a better driver.
Have you installed skids, rockers, a rear diff-locker, and some siped ATs/MTs yet?
Siped Geolandar mudders are offered in 235/75R15 or 225/65R17 sizes that can fit 2nd-gen Crosstreks.
Anti-swaybar disconnects might help. I think Cusco offers an LSD that would fit the front too.
I'd still be concerned about damaging the vulnerable, plastic bumpercovers offroad.
Traction boards are getting more popular in the West these days. I got a multi-mount winch too.
This review is confusing - I've thrown my bone stock 2019 Crosstrek into some significantly more technical and 2 wheel heavy inclines, It never had a "cant move forward" scenario like what was recorded here. With X-mode + TCS off. I think the review was good, but something seems very off based on my own experiences on the trail. Understandably the AWD system will have its limits, but If you work with the system you will get some fantastic results. I don't feel like the approach or process used for the climb attempt was reflective of an end-user whose intentions are to offroad to the full potential of the vehicle. The attempts felt a bit limp wristed and without enough variation or trail evaluation, which you'd actually do while on trails. If you just want to hit the gravel and putt about, avoid scuffs and bumps, sure, but if you really want to get places you'd drive with a vastly different approach. I can understand Subaru's frustration about content like this given my own behind the wheel experience.
I'm the first one here from Botswana
@I QUIT YT hi
Have a great day.
@@b.t.2795 thank you too
16:08 How did he get tired of recovering subaru's if they can barely make it up a hill? Sound like they wouldn't get far and be easy money for the recovery guy.
I believe that 'recovery service' is made up of volunteers...so its costing him money since its a free service, by volunteers donating their time & gas to help.
Also it's kinda like when a mechanic just gets tired of doing oil changes over and over again for years
He's full of shit. I was a part of that recovery group and the most common recovery was of full sized trucks slid off the trails. Many of the volunteers are jeep or Toyota guys that think nobody else should be on the trails in addition to being jr deputy types. I quit the group because of the bureaucracy involved with pulling people out.
The traction control system of crossovers including this red lifted hatchback works more efficiently when the front wheels are positioned straight. Tommy had to keep the throttle steady and give a little more time for the system to process and react. It worked with the Outback when tested by the SUV Battle channel. Though he's absolutely right about Subaru's misleading marketing and users' perception.
I would like to see how this compares to say the jeep compass latitude since its in the same price point. I run into a lot of folks who are deciding between the two.
I've heard reviewers say the Crosstrek with the 2.5L does a better job of moving power between the wheels. The traction control has more total torque to move between the wheels. Possibly one of the reasons why the AWD system in the HRV is so terrible. The CVTs don't help either.
You should try it with the Crosstrek Sport model to see how it responds if even better
We have a Crosstrek we love it! We notice also that the CVt limits us when we go to the trails. It's a great vehicle for going to the lake. We are thank you for these great videos
You could make all those trails with 100hp but with a regular auto or a manual. CVT suuucks besides fuel economy
I think this is a much more fair subaru review than ones you've done in the past well done.
Anybody else get a Bronco Sport ad shooting down the Crosstrek? 😂
I would really like to see the Wilderness addition try it. And I want Tommy to be the one trying it. For some reason I feel that his Subaru reviews are more fair and stuff.While I don't expect the Wilderness addition to be a 4Runner (and I don't think Subaru is saying it is) I do think it will be better off road than the regular Subaru.
Thank you for continuing to test the stock form. Please throw a few mods on and or bring a Subaru owner to test the trail. Every vehicle is different and I think you got over cliffhanger because you started to learn how to drive a Subaru off road. It takes sometime to adjust also let’s not forget you are testing the smallest engine offered on a stock base model. Keep up the good work!
Would like to see how a manual Crosstrek performs or maybe an old manual forester. You guys mostly tested the automatics only on subarus. Would like to see how a subaru performs with a manual with traction on just 2 wheels and how the computer responds to wheel spin.
This doesn't seem to be a problem with the CVT. It can clearly handle the torque to climb up inclines. The problem is 100% with the TC system, instead of keeping the power on and applying the brakes to the spinning wheels it cuts power completely.
That's how a lot of cars with open differentials work. What kind of transmission it has doesn't have anything to do with it.
Still disappointed in the result. If the vehicle was stuck I'd much rather it burn up the brakes a little bit to get unstuck rather than needing to get it towed. Getting the brake pads/rotors replaced is cheaper.
On one of your other reviews I stated the major problem is those geolandar tires are crap. Change those and you'll change the total car performance!
Why don’t car reviewers ever run these off-road courses with appropriate tires?
certainly tires are an issue and without a skid plate lowers your abilities. As a owner of 2 outfitted Subaru's with many club members in MtnRoo AZ - they CAN be very capable but I think we all know the CVT is the limiting factor.
this is were the subaru shines not like your 1st test.and dont compare it to the bronco sport 2 different animals apples and oranges
Bronco sport badlands, the regular bronco sport would have similar problems on the hill climb
Great Video! That drone footage is fantastic. Would love to see how the 2.5l would handle the cliffhanger; Driving Sports TV did a somewhat similar hill climb with the 2.5l sport model, and with that extra 30hp it seemed to do a lot better job at distributing power on two wheels
i love tommy’s reviews!
But really if anyone was doing this with any regularity they would just make a tire change and spend the $200 on skid plates. And probably the larger engine.