What Is The Watcher? (Doctor Who)
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Regenerations of the Doctor have never been a smooth process but once stands out to me even among the most turbulent of changes.
What on earth (or space) is with the Watcher?
Lets look at a couple of theories about the enigmatic apparition who stalked the Doctor and his companions prior to the end of his 4th life and maybe shed some light on it.
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Based on what I saw on the production notes of the Logopolis DVD, the Watcher was the Doctor whilst he was regenerating from his fourth to fifth bodies. The Master's tampering with Logopolis caused a wave of entropy to spread across all of space and time, disrupting reality and flinging the regenerating Doctor back in time, where he assisted his past self. When reality was restored to normal, he simply returned to his proper place in time and resumed the regeneration.
This makes a lot of sense too. Especially as a regeneration is a big event with lots of energies floating around. o.O
Either way, the master's interference with the structure of the universe has to be the underlying cause, its the only thing that was a really big difference about this regeneration.
And maybe that's what Timelords _really_ look like. Much more alien.
originaluddite I think humans just look timelord
Sorry I know this is a year late but I have to say something
So if this is true, that means The Watcher is what a Time Lord looks like right in the middle of regeneration.....
That's flipping terrifying!!!
caz_ cina: no, not really, it seemed more to me that this modified dna was spinning new weaves of collagen fibers as the tissues regenerated. At the time, I thought this made the most sense and it would be how regeneration scenes would be handled going forward.
My interpretation is that the Watcher was an afterimage. He's what's left of the doctor from the timeline where the entire universe was destroyed by entropy. He came back through time to inform the doctor what was happening, meaning he (the watcher) was a paradox. Being sustained by the tardis. Hence cloister bells.
This was my understanding as well and apparently the case according to production notes from this story. When the paradox was corrected, they merged back into one timeline and one Doctor.
So his...her... _it_ basically didn’t just sacrifice it’s life, it sacrificed it’s _existence_ to save another universe? Damn...
Cosmo 456 Not necessarily. The Watcher/alternate universe Doctor and our Doctor’s timelines merged. So not a sacrifice, so much as a merging of both timelines into one in which the Doctor succeeded at preventing the death of all things. If it was a sacrifice, the Watcher would have faded from existence rather than merged at the end.
That sounds like it would be an interesting possibility; as the Watcher has only appeared once in the show, it makes sense that it is some sort of anomaly in one way or another.
I like this, it's a simple explanation. Also checks out as an extension of Cho-ji's projection of his future self. And potentially... Romana's
Here’s what I think The Watcher is.
First off, it was always hinted at in Tom Baker’s run that he wasn’t a good Time Lord. He was a god amongst insects when hanging out with humans, but as a Time Lord he was most likely that guy who did just enough to pass.
This was especially apparent with Romana showing how Time Lords can treat regeneration as a player select screen.
Now go back to Planet of the Spiders where K’anpo Rimpoche was able to project his “assistant” Cho-Je, and when he was shot, the two merged and he regenerated resembling Cho-Je.
I just think The Doctor was doing the half assed and subconscious version of K’anpo Rimpoche’s projection, then merging to regenerate.
Intellectually I realize we only see selected moments of the character's life, not 24/7 (or the Gallifreyan equivalent), so the Doctor could have (and like I suggest elsewhere probably did during his time as Eleven (Matt Smith)) done the projection thing off camera at (or before) Trenzalore. But it would have been _really nice_ if the writers had picked up that thread and shown it.
My theory on the watcher was always that he was the doctor's final incarnation come back to help. Keep in mind this story takes place directly after Keeper of Traken, which just saw the 13th version of the master (who resembled something akin to the evil love child of Skeletor and Emperor Palpatine) "regenerate" by taking over another person's body. The watcher even resembles the master's weird scrambled appearance in a white hat good guy to the master's black hat bad guy way. So my theory is that the Doctor at the very end of his life cycle comes back knowing he doesn't have the strength to regenerate on his own, merging with himself to push the regeneration through, while basically putting himself in a paradoxical time loop. It also explains why there's no body in his tomb on trensalor, despite time lords clearly leaving corpses as evident in the 5 doctors with Rasilon's body, and it being a "wound" to the time space continuum instead.
Tldr: the watcher was a plot device and us nerds are over analyzing it as we always do.
@@carlmiller757 _As far as the Doctor should have known_ Matt Smith _was_ his final incarnation. The _writers_ and _showrunners_ (and no doubt _audience_ ) knew the role would continue, that Smith was not the Final Doctor, but the Doctor himself? No. The matter of the Watcher _should_ have been dealt with before Matt's tenure ended (and wasn't!) This was a missed trick (if not an outright fuckup) by the writers.
@@carlmiller757 All that said, I like this as an explanation for why there's no body. So maybe it WILL get dealt with eventually. But if writing staff's institutional memory is this shaky now, decades from now what will it be...?
@@xheralt oh, I have no doubt the writing will go all over the place. They might even revisit the whole "half human" turd.
What is the Watcher? Something to scare the children on a Saturday evening 😂
As I read this comment, que my nephew peeking at my phone and seeing the watcher. "That guy is cool!"
Ye basically
My theory is simple: remember how in "Planet of the Spiders" Cho-Ji was nothing more than a psychic projection created by K'anpo prior to his regeneration? Well, I believe that the Watcher was a similar projection, created subconsciously by the Doctor, and because it was a subliminal, it was underdeveloped, and thus all white.
I was thinking the same thing.
Also K'anpo was a much more powerful than the Doctor was so The Doctor's projection wouldn't be as good as K'anpo.
I agree also.
Ok...so maybe if a timelord with psychic projection abilities (K'anpo) lends his regenerative energy to a timelord without them (3rd Doctor) it temporarily gives that timelord projection abilities as a side effect. The 4th used up K'anpo"s energy regenerating into the 5th, which is why the projection bit never happened again.
That's what I've been assuming. I didn't know about regeneration until 4 regenerated. He is the first version of the Doctor I saw here in the US. Later episodes of 3 were made available and seeing Planet of the Spiders led me to assume that the Watcher was a similar projection just as you have. I sometimes wish 10 had created a projection of John Smith to live a separate life in the Family of Blood story. and reabsorbed him after he had a full life when the time for regeneration came.
My theory is that Baker’s regeneration mutated in the alternate Logopolis timeline due to the universe collapsing. So it went back to help the 4th Doctor prevent that timeline. However, it felt immense pain from it’s mutation so it merged with the Doctor to basically copy Baker’s DNA and use pretty much paste it on it’s avatar to fix itself and to be able to live out a happy life of it’s own as Baker’s doctor who would become the Curator in Day of the Doctor.
You have to look no further than the 3rd Doctor's final episode, the Planet of Spiders for an explanation. His childhood mentor was projecting a future incarnation of himself. When his current incarnation was attacked fatally enough, he regenerated into the form he was projecting.
i remember wondering about that, too. i guess in this case the future was uncertain so the Doctor's projection didn't look quite like himself yet.
That is my interpretation of it. The Watcher is a similar future projection of the Doctor - namely his 5th incarnation.
Yes, but the difference is that the mentor consciously projected a future incarnation of himself. The Fourth Doctor had no idea who the Watcher was until they spoke.
Is it confirmed that it is the fifth doctor? could it be another doctor for a farfar off regeneration, who has come back in time to create a loop so that he can never die?
According to the novelization of Castrovalva, because of the apocalyptic nature of the threat (the universe being destroyed) the doctor's two incarnations had overlapped.
This is now my head canon! What a great explanation!! Fifth is also my favourite classic Doctor, it's nice to hear him given some love.
We have to remember that in Old Who they always tried to have each regeneration be unique. In the new show we get the golden glow for every regeneration.... Which kind of kills how special it is (no matter how many 'splosions they add in for each new doctor.)
My little theory is that the regenerations get more and more unpredictable and in some cases chaotic the further in their cycle they are, with the first doctor simply fading and turning into the second with the subsequent regens giving off some form of energy unless aided by outside forces (second to third and third to fourth were triggered by foreign sources) then to the 10ths semi regen nearly destroyed the console room and 11 to 12 managing to blow up an army of daleks
@@LilKumStainzz 11 to 12s regeneration had so much energy because be he was given a ton of new regenerations by the Timelords. It's the same reason that he went back to looking young.
It does. That standup, kaboom stuff has gotten a little old.
The worst part is that the latest Regeneration got so close; they could've had the fancy golden effect spread across the Doctor's body to produce a new man, but they just had to have that massive electricity thing.
And, in Old Who, the Doctor's death is treated like an actual death - not an excuse to stand up and triumphantly fling out his/her arms and gush artron energy.
I really Like that theory, I always dismissed the Watcher as an attempt to expand the lore or regen, and then forgetting to follow up on it, but this explanation i really like,
My theory:
In the far future, the Doctor gets split into two separate conuciousnosses': The Watcher (everything good) and The Valeyard (everything bad)!
That's a pretty fascinating theory
conuciousnosses
bruh
consciousnesses
@ben ben i actually just posted a similar albeit more indepth version of this theory glad i am not the only one to think this
here is a condensed version of what i posted;
i feel like the watcher could be the alternate version of the valiyard whereas the valiyard is his evil incarnation the watcher is good and because in your last theory the watcher ceased to exist by rewritting his timeline and because of this the watcher unmerges from the doctor later on becoming corrupted due to not existing anymore as well as from the build up of negative emotions and occurances the doctor bas witnessed such as when he had lost companions and perhaps as well not remembering the john hurt war/other doctor and so the manifestation of this negative builsup causes a rift in which the watcher leaves the doctor and creates the valiyard, and if we dont take the timeless child into effect then one could also speculate that the watcher/valiyard could be a result of the cornel master plan and is a manifestation of 'the other' leaving his newly rewritten timelord body and becoming free again similarily to omega wanting to be free of the antimatter universe but due to the corruption amd loss and fractured timeline and rewritten memories 'the other' does not remember things correctly and simply becomes the valiyard you could also theorize that based on ten being vain and regeneratung into himseld that could be an act of taboo and so further damaging the doctors pschye especially since ten was often depicted very sinister and so you could say that the 'good' was sent into the human hybrid to live with his true love rose and sometime before regenerating into matt smiths 11 the valiyard breaks away and thus 11 is considered to be a more positive version of himself on his last regeneration cycle wanting to be young and live out the rest of his life and thusly the valiyard could then be a point between officially becoming his 13th incarnation
I would definitely side with the theory that the Watcher was a future version of the Doctor. The Logopolis episode points that direction and I quote: "The watcher..." "...he was the Doctor the whole time"...
I totally agree with you I think he is the goth doctor
I mean fourth
I think the watcher was created by the doctor in case his whole body was destroyed so badly he couldn't regenerate, then he had an extra body spare.
100% agree with your version of the Watcher being an alternate version of the Doctor. Alternate timelines have been poorly treated in the show, but they have been hinted at. I like the idea that the "old" Doctors we see in anniversary shows are also alternate Doctors still out and about on their own adventures, their regenerations simply having not taken place the way we saw because they did something different. (Hartnell didn't become Troughton, Troughton didn't become Pertwee, etc.) This is a better explanation as to why the second Doctor looks considerably older in "5 D" and "2 D", and even has an older version of Jamie along with him in "2 D". In his timeline, the Timelords made him a sort of special agent instead of forcing his regeneration into the third Doctor and banishing him to Earth. We also got a brief glimpse of an alternate third Doctor and Jo Grant once when he was experimenting with the dematerialization circuit. And, I recall, it may have been Sarah Jane who once read a bit of the Doctor's diary and discovered that certain events contradicted each other, along the lines of happening one way, and then another, and then not at all. This is because of the Doctor's strong mental link to himself across all versions. A "Mandela Effect" that is actually quite real. (In reality, the Mandela Effect is simply caused by faulty memory, similar to mishearing song lyrics.)
dumbbo1 nice theory
My theory is that a Time Lord has a 'prime' incarnation which is a body they keep longer than others and is essentially them at their peak. In my mind this often occurs late in the regeneration cycle. When the Third Doctor's regeneration had 'a little push' from K'anpo it brought on his prime incarnation early. When the prime body fails the Time Lord needs to project an image of their next body to help with the trauma. This could then explain the 'midlife crisis' short lived incarnations of 5, 6 and 7 (on TV at least) as post-prime instability...
K'Anpo's regeneration in Planet of the Spiders is like a more advanced version of this - his future self is fully realised and fully interactive.
That's an excellent reminder.
I'd never put the two together before.
Except that K'Anpo is not referenced at all in the story. Although it was 7 years ago by then, some in the audience could be expected to remember with a nudge ... "Ah, my old mentor K'Anpo once saw his future self ..." etc. Bidmead clearly didn't intend the audience to take away an association with the K'Anpo regeneration or he would have been clearer about it.
I always thought the watcher was like a psychic projection of the Doctor's new personality. Because time-lords are kind of fluidic in time, as the 3rd showed us in Invasion of the Dinosaurs. They have weird time-sensitive abilities as well as psychic abilities. So they might be subconsciously aware that they are going to die and create a projection that they can begin forming a new personality within, while their current personality deals with whatever crisis might be happening.
@Certifiably Ingame, Arc of Infinity. Omega rips himself apart, The 5th Doctor's copied mind and physical form becomes the empty crusty white shell in the absence of Omega (but conscious enough to interact with the 4th doctor because he knew that this event was one catalyst for his regeneration prior) and Omega turned into pure consciousness.
Kind of like a full-body version of Ten's severed hand, in other words?
Well, I mean. Consider Cho-Je. Planet of Spiders was written, directed, and produced by Barry Letts, who also oversaw season 18, which ends in Logopolis. In that story, we have a Time Lord who exists twice at once: as himself, and as a future projection of his soul. When that Time Lord is fatally injured, his future projection gives him a hand, then vanishes while he regenerates into that form. Which is basically the same thing that happens again in Logopolis, albeit with a few artistic differences.
Then we get to the Valeyard, who is described in broadly similar terms as an artificially created embodiment of the Doctor's negative essence between his two final incarnations. Basically an evil Watcher, if you will.
This soul projection business -- evidently a product of Barry's active Buddhism -- seems to be a thing that Time Lords can just do, though it's not explored very often. And the Doctor, being generally a fuck-up as Time Lords go, of course has way less control over it than he might. Which may go some distance to explain why his Watcher was... um, the way it was.
I always figured it was a version of the fifth who went back to make sure fourth survives to regenerate
This video was pleasant to find considering I was pondering "The Watcher" the other day while at work. I like your theory.
This is by far the best explanation yet. Well done.
the watcher is just a timelord who need some lotion because he or it has dry skin lol
I really like your theory, it makes sense and adds up.
I toyed with the idea of the Watcher being the Curator, but I think you nailed it. Excellent video!
I agree - This was one of the points that stands out to not making much sense. (Great explanation!)
I really enjoyed this video; well done!
Excellent summation!
Best explanation I've ever heard for it. Thanks Rick
A very nice theory! Tying the Watcher specifically into Logopolis makes a lot of sense.
Brilliant!!! Just Brilliant!!! The entire ensemble of you explaining these mysterious events during this changing of The Doctor time stream exposition is simply fantastic, with flowing stamps of genius picture editing with excerpts of facts from cannon peppered all throughout, down to this most brilliant theory, perfectly tying it all together. Just wow!! This fits eternally better than O.J.' S glove ever could. lol And this is coming from a fan who was there, (in front of the tele anyway) in my eighth to ninth year of life of this particular time stream of the fourth Doctor's last days. And so being a fellow religious viewer of Doctor Who in this age of particular time, as I can tell also that you were. I know where ya coming from. That whole "The Watcher" theme really vexed me at the time and quite really to this very day (although now silently running in the far back deepest recesses of my mind covered up with the preverbial sheet and all lol, but there.) until now... So I'm running with this theory as cannon, most assuredly. Thanks a lot, Mate!!! That was really cool, Alonzi
Post Script;
The Fifth Doctor was my second favorite too. Only Davies could follow Tom Baker like that! He did a really great job as The Fifth. I have to even say that he quite mayhap have been the last great Doctor over the whole of the Old Who series. Because ,being of bold, they lost me at Colin Baker as the sixth Doctor early on.. They really did. And could' thus bare to watch anymore after that. Painful. And never watched again until The New Who series. Which is an all fantastical world all to itself lol
Although the same exact creature really, but... let's say or call it two different extremities of the same body. And in the extremity that houses the Old Who era, The Fifth Doctor was definatly my second favorite. Tom Baker being no# 1 of course. "Hello, How are you doing...", "Would you like a jelly belly?..
lol
And Peter Capaldi's out of this because he's in the New Who Verse, thank you very much... lol
Nothing against Peter, the brilliance he brought to the table as "The Doctor" is a creature all on it's own.
Anyway, there it is
Thank you & i apologize for reading my ramble thus far
And thank you for this most brilliant work in tying up these lost ends in my useless life lol
Thank You
I like your take on this, well done!
I have to be honest, your "favorite" explanation is one that I've thought of and debated for quite some time.
I came here hoping to find a DIFFERENT theory.
LoL
Oh well, then since you've backed up my basic premise, I'll stick to it.
It REALLY is the one that makes the most sense.
Thanks for the video.
THAT WAS A BEAUTIFUL AND INTELLIGENT LOOK INTO THE WATCHER, AND TRUTHFULLY I COULDN'T OF SAID OR EXPLAINED IT BETTER, YOU WERE FANTASTIC!!GARY BAILEY
I too always wondered about this, and I have to admit you did a top notch job of providing a plausible theory. Mine was that The Watcher was actually The Other, and while this may sound cool, I'l admit it really doesn't make sense. Good video!
Best explanation I’ve heard so far.
And now the explanation of the "evil" Doctor from the future that was brought back in time to be a prosecutor (for ...whatever reasons) to prosecute the 6th Doctor (The Valeyard, I think he was called)...8-)
Your explanation is good enough for me!
I've always wondered about the Watcher, too. Your explanation makes sense, and even though that episode never clearly explained it, I tend to think that was the intention of the writer - that the Watcher was the Doctor from the future coming back to inform his prevous self so as to avert the disaster, and once history was changed, the Watcher could no longer exist as he was so he was absorbed back into his previous self. So although this event was inadequately explained back then, it is likely the writer saw the need for the "absorption" scene.
"When would (a time traveler) have had time?"
Oh you.
Well, he never had time to keep a diary, so...
it does explain why 5 is so extra nutty just after his regeneration (compared to previous regens). he's dealing with extra timelines and memories.
Good speculation. I liked it. It could also explain the mental reactions the 5th Doctor had in Castrovalva. The collapsing timelines created a dissonance in memories and the reactions to those memories?
Brilliant vid. Really strong argument that I have a lot of truck with
Well you have to remember that particular regeneration didn't work out very well, so maybe the Watcher was an exception, only occurring because of that particular regeneration.
I like your idea. I think I'll stick with it as it has worried me for decades.
That's the best explanation I've ever heard!!
Great video!
Your explaination is the most logical one and holds merit we all know that timelords can merge with other beings like the master did before the watcher came.
This video and the other theories in the comments are fascinating! I saw this episode as a kid in 1981 and had no idea what was happening.
I think that theory works really well. It is an echo of K'Anpo and Cho Je from Planet of the Spiders but I think the way you put it is much better.
Thank you for finally answering something that did my head in 30 odd years ago 🤣
I like this, superb theory.
This works for my hand canon.
Great theory!
Has anyone ever asked the writers of Logopolis about this?
They've forgotten about it as they were pretty much half sloshed writing this script.
Why ask them what would they know!
Probably back then they only did it to add some mystery in the episode and Moffat used it
I think you nailed it. This is exactly what I thought when I first saw it in the '80s, although not as worked out.
the answer is simple, they needed something mysterious to throw into the mix and make people wonder. no need for it to have any meaning, it's just there to make people wonder. could have just as easily been a little girl that appears out of no where wearing a purple tutu and holding a sword that picks up a rock, looks at the doctor, smiles, says "next time probably", and disappears. never to be seen again. no reason, no meaning, just something to add mystery.
I like this theory. It fits in perfectly with a video where Davison once stated that the Watcher is supposed to be him. I love the idea of a timeline where an alternate version of the Doctor's future incarnation comes to the rescue. Certainly something that I could see the show doing.
Loved this!
ua-cam.com/video/XPtuezXbVNU/v-deo.html
No, I do not think the Watcher needs to be explained, but the explanation you offered seems spot on. I like it and it fits well with the story. Well done sir.
Wow - Dr who theory about the classic series. And a theory I haven't heard of. Awesone - it makes a lot of sense for a retcon and I bet the creators would love to pick this into the canon.
Very good analysis.
Thanks
Question:What/Who is the watcher?
Answer: He’s the doctor, just accept it.
I guess he can be seen as a Wraith - a Ghost that foreshadows death.
Great theory, this has often bugged me.
I think he was a baby Q, learning to cross into different realities. Head cannon rules!
i read a fanfic(cant remember where), that explains that "the watcher" was in fact doctor 10.5, after rose died he started work on a way to return his knowledge and the part of himself that couldn't regenerate into "the doctor".
i have not done it justice here with my explanation, it was very well written.
Hey just wondering would you do a video of other incarnation of the doctor outside of the main 14? Like the valeyard, the dream lord and the curator?
Kind of reminds me of the Curator from Day of The Doctor.
Regardless of who/what the Watcher IS, I'm pretty sure JNT was re-using the idea from the last regeneration episode, Planet of the Spiders, when the character of Cho-je merges with the regenerating Time Lord, K’anpo Rimpoche. Remember that the whole idea of "regeneration" was still very new then, and there wasn't a standard look to how it happened. In any case, the Fourth Doctor's regeneration into the Fifth Doctor is still my all time favourite regeneration sequence; beautifully done, with the feeling of being re-born.
I like your explanation of the future incarnation of the Doctor. However, I had heard that the watcher was sent by t he White Guardian to give him insight of future events that were to happen and then to help him regenerate just as the Choji helped the third Doctor regenerate at the end of Planet of the Spiders.
I cant help thinking youve really really over though this!!!
But fair play to you, i like your opinion...
Maybe the Watcher was an entity that helped kick off a regeneration after 4th Doctor is too injured to regenerate?
I believe the Watcher is a "repeat" of the 3rd Doctor's final episode "Planet of Spiders". During the episode, he encounters his childhood mentor who has regenerated (at least once since the Doctor had met him as hermit on Galifrey). It is learned later that the Abbot's assistant is a future projection of the current incarnation of the Doctor's Mentor. When his Mentor is attacked, fatally, the projection fades away and the mentor changes into the assistant. That is who the Watcher is.
Did it need explaining? Never even gave it a thought. That said I enjoyed this video and your theory. Great explanation if it was needed or not.
The shot of the walker behind a fence made it on r/cursedimages. Nice.
I always loved the mystery. When I watched this on pbs in the states as a little boy I was enamored by the unknown nature of the watcher.
My theory is that the Watcher is the very final incarnation of the Doctor, and his ghostly appearance is perhaps a side effect of regenerating so many times. The end of the fourth Doctor's life is a memory he for some reason likes, and therefore decides to visit it. He walks into the Doctor while he is regenerating, becoming one with his past self, thus becoming the Fifth Doctor and in a sense, reliving his old life, but also not, since him and his past self are now both the same person.
So why is he wearing all white, too?
ua-cam.com/video/XPtuezXbVNU/v-deo.html
Why does the Sixth wear a multi-color coat? The answer is don't think about it.
I think the Watcher can be explained as a forced, manipulated regeneration that went sideways. Perhaps a powerful old villian like the Black Guardian cuts a deal with the Dream Lord (the Doctor's dark, but incorporeal self) to cooperate in letting the Doctor get turned 'inside out' upon changing (with the Dream Lord becoming corporeal for the rest of the Doctor's regenerations, and with his good self becoming a 'ghost' or psychic shell). But something goes wrong, and the change results in his splitting off into two half-ghostly external beings, namely the Watcher (his good self), and the Valeyard (all of his evil self).
thats awesome i love it
I always assumed the Watcher was the in-between stage of the regeneration process, fourth to fifth, that was somehow separate and in waiting to step into the process. Or perhaps it is the Valeyard, another character that has never really been explained on screen
One thing to consider ( perhaps) is that the fifth was initially "damaged" and needed to recuperate in the Zero Room ( later the Zero Chamber). Considering the events of castrovala and logopolis as one long storyline, I think the echo theory makes a lot of sense. Time and reality are literally mucked about with by the Master twice with the Doctor present both times. As we learn later regeneration includes a lot of excess energy which a recuperating doctor perhaps spent into the timeline via the extra dimensional nature of the Zero Room.
I'm pretty sure the Watcher is an invention with no rationale that the writer couldn't be bothered to make up an explanation for as they finished off the screenplay for Logopolis to a BBC deadline.
I hate unicorns well duh, but we want to know what he is lorewise
It was something that could be left open and dealt with "eventually". Except it wasn't. The break in continuity of the show between McCoy and Eccleston means that there was 100% turnover in writing department. Nobody in the room for New Who had even the vaguest recollection of that thread, and it shows.
I know this was 2 years ago, but this has me thinking if the whole watcher theory has anything to do with the new Ruth Doctor that was just introduced. When speaking of alternate/parallel time lines
The Watcher was an attempt to re-do something that had already happened in Planet of the Spiders, in a different way. In Planet of the Spiders, there was an old Time Lord called K'Anpo Rinpoche who was living on earth as a Buddhist monk. He was assisted by a man called Cho Je. But part-way through it was explained that Cho Je wasn't a separate person, he was a projection of K'Anpo Rimpoche. Towards the end K'Anpo is injured and starts to regenerate - Cho Je vanshes and K'Anpo regenerates into the form of Che Je. The Watcher was a variation on an idea.
"A footprint doesn't look like a boot," is one of my favorite lines from modern Who. Just because...I spend a lot of time thinking about other dimensions and Flatland and the like.
Haha, I see what you did there... "Any Who."
Even before you stated your theory about the reasons for the Watcher's existence I had arrived at the same conclusion. I hadn't yet fleshed out the actual process as you have so eloquently here. There is a precedent in the Doctor Who canon at this point at the time of the Doctor's regeneration from his Third Incarnation to his Fourth. His childhood mentor who had established a hermitage on / in 20th Earth also brought into existance a future version of himself. When attacked and "killed" as a result, the avatar vanished then appeared inside his earlier incarnation's clothing as the Doctor had in his previous incarnations. (See : Planet of Spiders).
I think it started with the Tardis landing connected with the Masters tardis in the first episode of Logopolis. That messed with time and caused a manifestation of the doctor's future self. The watcher is just a complex time event. A dreamy wisp. This manifestation caused the problems that occurred regeneration to the fifth doctor. But allowed the Doctor a second pair of hands to help out in small ways
Either a rouge time lord stealing the doctors body. Wither 4th was in fact the last regeneration the watcher was a new cycle. Or, i always thought the was sent by the time lords to force another regen as punishment for not returning Romana home when they requested it. Or, the watcher shows up as every regen, but this was the only time it made itself visible. Anyway, i hope it's something the show revisits
if you think about it, The Doctor always had trouble regenerating after the time lords exiled him to earth and forcibly made him regenerate. After that he always had trouble regenerating until the 8th doctor took that potion and he got the "explodey regeneration" thing. 3 to 4 needed the monk guy, 4 to 5 needed the watcher, 5 to 6 needed a psychic pep talk and so on
Strange, the first to second regen had no complications whatsoever.
that was the one and only time he died peacefully, of old age. just about every other death has been otherwise. 2nd doc was forced to change (can't have been good for him) 3rd doc was poisoned, 4th doc fell, 5th doc was poisoned, 6th doc suffered trauma, 7th doc was shot, until 8th doc took that potion which gave the doctor his explodey regeneration thing.
I like your suggestion that the Watcher merged with the Doctor in order to reconcile the timelines. I'd previously assumed that merging with the Watcher was what allowed the Doctor's regeneration to take place at all, which never made sense to me, firstly because if the Watcher was a future incarnation of the doctor, his existence was only made possible by his own intervention (definitely a paradox), and secondly because there was no discernible reason for the Doctor to need additional help to regenerate - there were no complicating factors such as toxins or specialised weapons which might have interfered. He simply fell, and was still alive in the immediate aftermath, so it made no sense that he wouldn't regenerate on his own easily.
If you recall, Peter Davidson doctor was all jacked up (a more and more common thing, these days) when he started his life. As a kid, I assumed the Watcher was him, doing some timelord trick to make sure the Tom Doctor didn't DIE die, by using some of his future energy (which is why he was jacked up at first). Sort of how the Master was able to extend his own life forwards, just the Doctor going backwards with his energy.
Revisiting the Watcher as an idea, I recently begun thinking that it was a phenomenon that would act as a spiritual representation of Time Lord Regeneration; an omen of death and rebirth, appearing to time lords whom had to intervene/interfere in an imminent catastrophe that threatened the Space/Time Continuum, while also resulting in the deaths of their current incarnations, reminding them of their responsibilities.
While also on a side-note, hinting at difficult regeneration recoveries; as the fifth doctor had an especially difficult recovery in Castrovalva.
I first watched this regeneration as a 6 year old in 1981. Now, all these years later, I still have no clue what the purpose of the watcher was! Thanks for at least trying to explain it!
Nailed it, as far as I see the watcher, spot on in every detail, I thought the watch was a superb plot device as it lent an air of mysticism back to the Doctor, who let's face it had become everyone's favourite uncle, it was totally unique and memorable and that amongst other things puts Logopolis as one of my favourite classic stories, perhaps Jody's last season should bring the watcher back, after all the regeneration of the doctor going from male to female wasn't particularly unusual, so perhaps the change back to male form may warrant something special, and while we are on the subject of regenerations why are all regenerations in "nu who" the same, I used to love the idea of each regeneration being unique, as the Doctor said "that's the trouble with regeneration, you never quite know what you are going to get"
I always thought that the Watcher was an 'in-between' manifestation of the doctor, a piece of the jigsaw, that once in place, completed the process. Each regeneration is different, maybe this was for a timelord an essential part of 4th becoming 5th? The first regeneration stated that the Tardis was an essential part of the regeneration, perhaps it was for 1st to 2nd? I liked this added bit of mystery, after all, since when was anything about the doctor self explanatory? There should be mystery surrounding the doctor all the time, hence the title of the series! Take away all the mystery and you have the end of the series! Perhaps JNT was in the know more about the idea behind the Watcher?
Could it be anything to do with the curator from the new series it would be a good way to explain how he “revisits” old favourites .
I think you give an interesting and cutting explanation. It is a believable Theory. Perhaps The Watcher in this case knew that the fourth doctor in this reality would die from his fall before he could regenerate therefore the alternative timeline Fifth Doctor went back and save the fourth doctor by warning him of his impending death.
Hi Rick! This video is a couple years old, and I love the theory put forth, but I wanted to to bring to your attention a potential wrinkle:
Something very similar happens to the Time Lord character of K’anpo Rimpoche (retroactively “The Hermit”) in Pertwee’s last serial The Planet of Spiders, where it turned out his assistant Cho Je was actually a “future projection” of K’anpo Rimpoche, merging with him when he started wearing a little thin. The regenerated K’anpo Rimpoche (now with Cho Je’s face) assures Sarah Jane that the Doctor won’t die, but be regenerated - apparently the first in-story use of the term.
I’ve always thought of the Watcher as something akin to this, even though the similarities are not directly referenced in Logopolis. It’s not a stretch to think that the Doctor might have learned something of the technique from his mentor.
On the other hand, it’s a SUPER WEIRD idea, and perhaps best forgotten...
2 ways to look at the Watcher that make sense and aren't pure speculation:
1. Future Doctor echo: your favorite theory: this made sense to me! Not really even speculative. It's what I've always thought, based exactly on what's in the story. The Watcher is a future Doctor, misty and distant as an unformed faraway thing.
2. Cho-Jee from Planet of the Spiders and the previous story's Master taking over Tremas were the two of the three most recent regenerations portrayed on the show at the time, and note how similar those moments are. Barry Letts was producer for both (well, executive producer in season 18). Cho-Jee was a future echo of K'anpo. The Keeper/Master took over Tremas's body a la the Watcher merging with the Doctor. It only makes sense that Letts would advise Bidmead to do something similar in 1981. It highlighted the transcendental nature of the Doctor and regeneration. It's not cutesy Buddhism at all here though, it's metaphysical sci-fi that employs a little ambiguity quite beautifully.
As for how Nyssa and Adric knew the Watcher "was the Doctor all the time", they were with him. He operated the TARDIS. They knew how it felt to be with the Doctor too.
Logopolis was one of the most significant stories/moments for me and my falling in love with Who as a kid and over my lifetime. The transcendental aspects of it coupled with the hard sci-fi aspects embracing a discussion of universal entropy and the Master's futility fighting this effort to mathematically hold it all together have always kept it on or near the top of my list of favorite TV ever.
The Watcher is the Doctor's Cho-Jee, come as a glimpse from the future, a projection of himself, to help save the universe at its moment of direst need.
(Edit: and I just saw that someone else just said all that two years ago...)