The 4th Doctor's SHOCKING GOODBYE!!!
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- Tom Baker's tenure as the 4th Doctor is longer than any other Doctor. But in 1981 it came to an end in the midst of the Producer John Nathan-Turner beginning his 9 year reign for the remainder of the classic series and making mass changes to the show to bring it up to date for the 1980's. But did result in the best to bring an end to the 4th Doctor era???
00:00- Introduction
00:53- Season 17 And The 4th Doctor Era
02:13- The New Team
03:57- Titles And Music
06:02- Narrative Structure
07:08- Character Changes
10:56- Costume Change
12:07- A Link To The Past And New Talent
14:15- Resignation
15:15- Season 18 Part 1
16:23- Season 18 Part 2
18:41- Season 18 Part 3
21:12- Season 18 Reaction
22:59- JNT Legacy
24:42- Tom Baker Legacy
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Like this video? Check out my video on the 6th Doctor era. ua-cam.com/video/Vzu4KwH5Owg/v-deo.html
He did not stay too long. Every season was awesome
Tom Baker was and always will be my favourite dr and when he left I was gutted and that year I turned 12 and I wish I could have been older like 18 19 20 21 22 or even 30
He, and Pertwee were the only Doctors who could of survived the wild. Let alone, the universe across time and space.
I too was that age & felt the very same as it just was the end for me when Tom left the show. Just seemed boring to me & a few years later came back as it was the middle of the 6th then into the 7th but even then was seeing how JNT was running out of steam & then the show ended. But years later as an adult I did come to accept the 5th Dr as not being boring.
Tom was a force to be reckoned with. He wasn’t Willy Wonka in a scarf like some of the younger folks think. He took that role and made it his own. I think the show took its toll on him, mentally and physically. The show went from a 1950s b-movie/classic Sci-Fi vibe to Power Rangers level camp, that couldn’t compete with big budget offerings like Star Wars.
Tom loved it - and wanted it to go on forever - the footage of him in Australia visiting the school is amazing - and yet, he surely knew it couldn't - he was probably figuring out how it might all pan out while the cheapy budgets, shitty chromakey whatever the BBC calls it OSI whatever *ugh* Warrior's Gate so shite - either he was going strong with Lalla Ward at that stretch or was it already on the rocks so his mind elsewhere - and then along comes Erich von Stronheim aka JNT who wants to Josef Stalin-ize the whole brand goddamned question marks. Mind you, I do like starfield titles and newish theme, and the burgundy garb. Terrance Dicks's State of Decay vampire story was the only bright spot.
I personally loved Season 18..The comedy in 16 and 17 was just getting too much.I loved the sombre feel that led up to his regeneration.Warriors Gate was a masterpiece from that season.
Warriors Gate was amazingly shot
I once heard someone say that Tom Baker was best when he had INPUT, but not CONTROL. Tom Baker understood certain things about the character and was very good at protecting the character and making him consistent. His instincts about the character were often spot on. However, his desire to make the show funny often went way too far and would start looking like it was making fun of the show instead of just being fun. There are moments that I loved in Season 18, and there are definitely moments I hated in Season 17. Personally, I believe Season 16 is the best season of Doctor Who ever made, but even in that season there were moments of absolute cringe. Anyway, my ultimately point is I think in Season 17 the biggest overall problem was that Tom Baker was given too much free reign. He was essentially being given control. In Season 18 the biggest problem was that they went the other direction and stopped giving Tom Baker input. As a secondary thing, I think old Who had more focus on story and less focus on Production. I do appreciate that at least at first the JNT changes and new writers seemed to make the plot lines more grounded in science. I learned some very interesting scientific concepts quite well at a young age because of that, and I have always appreciated it. Personally, I have always absolutely loved The Keeper of Traken, and I also believe my fascination with Chemistry can directly be tied back to my introduction to entropy in that episode that also carried over into Logopolis. For me, the higher production values and more scientific concepts really did work in episodes like The Keeper of Traken and Warrior's Gate. There were moments in Warrior's Gate where I felt like the focus on the scientific concepts was a little too heavy, and at times this led to the plot becoming a bit two-dimensional, and in spite of the fun side characters the over-emphasis on the scientific concepts and production values also took a little away from the possible character development for me as well. Of course, for Doctor Who that doesn't mean much. There are plenty of two-dimensional stories where the writers clearly didn't respect their audience and were writing as if the show was for boring toddlers. My point is I actually do agree that Warriors Gate was really good. However, I also solidly believe it would even have been better if Tom Baker had been allowed to have enough input to give the Doctor a little more of that Doctor characterization (and, of course, had enough input to be having fun playing the character). If the story had been trimmed by about 20 minutes or had added one more minor element to the story line I think it would have been more balanced as well. But once again, this is not to say it is a bad story. I personally think it is absolutely solid. I don't think it is better than say City of Death or The Pirate Planet or The Ribos Operation, but it is certainly up there as one of the better episodes. Heck, I love Pyramids of Mars, but I solidly believe that even that episode would have been even better if both Tom and Lis had been given just a bit more input, and the input they snuck in even though they were told no definitely added to that episode. Obviously, The Horns of Nimon is an absolute travesty of an episode, but I'll also say I feel the same way about The Leisure Hive. I hated Meglos, which is sad because I loved the idea of seeing Jacqueline Hill. While there are moments that I absolutely hate in each one of them, overall I feel like Full Circle, State of Decay, and Legopolis all hold together, are mildly interesting, are slightly educational, and look pretty decent. There are times I get in the mood to watch every single one of them, even if they aren't usually my primary go-to stories. There is a part of me that absolutely wishes I could combine the good - give Tom just enough input that the Doctor feels like the Doctor and so that he is having fun, have an engaging story that has the scientific grounding of a Christopher Bidmeade story, the wit and cleverness of a Douglas Adams script, the absolute mastery of the rhetorical devices that Robert Holmes brought to a script, the overall understanding of Doctor Who lore that Peter Davison can bring to the story, the amazing trouble-shooting, balancing, and subtle tributes that Terrance Dicks could bring to a script, etc., etc., etc. There were many moments of absolute genius in Doctor Who, but I truly believe the best moments were the moments of balance - when the science was balanced with the plot and character development, when the wit and charm and jokes were balanced with the drama and darkness, when the production value contributed to the plot rather than competing with it, etc. Of course, I am also a little weird. Even though some of the special effects of an episode like The Green Death and Underworld just didn't work, I am still fascinated by those episodes because they chose to take risks. They were often working with shoe string budgets and old technology, but it is always interesting to remember that risks, and perhaps even failures, like The Green Death and Underworld were exactly what was needed to move the technology forward to have what we have today. Heck, I even love Invasion of the Dinosaurs. Even though the dinosaurs themselves are very fake, it's another example of people experimenting in order to move the technology forward. But even though it probably goes on too long, I also feel like it is a very interesting story and has some really good acting. Many of my favorite episodes are episodes most people hate, and I hate many episodes that most people love, so what do I really know anyway? And if you actually read through all of that, I am very, very, very impressed. That's a very long-winded way of me agreeing with you that Warrior's Gate is actually almost a masterpiece in many ways.
It is interesting how viewers have different tastes and opinions. I share your views on seasons 16 and 17 being overtly to comic (without actually being funny) but I differ on season 18. Personally I found the sombre season 18 just too heavy and downbeat. Tom always brought his private life emotions into his acting as the Doctor. So yes I agree with your views on 16 and 17 but for me Tom's first three seasons remain his very best. The so called classic period or the Hinchcliffe era.
Each to their own. I definitely think season 18 is better than seventeen,
One thing about Tom is that when people say Tom is their favourite Doctor I wonder if they mean in all his era as in some ways he was like different incarnations cross his reign. We had the bohemian classic alien with warmth Doctor, the over-the -top silly Doctor, then the losing the plot into lunacy Doctor to gloomy and depressed. People forget that the viewing figures dropped in Baker's final years and did pick up in Davison's first season. The question marks should never ever of happened.
I loved the character of the Master. What is Sherlock without Moriarty?
Rodger had a certain dignified malevolence about him.
Anthony was all about the maniacal laugh.
He did what he did because it amused him. He enjoyed the cat and mouse with the Doctor.
Oh... A real space probe was sent to figure out how much longer before the big crunch ends the universe. How fast was the universe collapsing?
The answer was stunning.
The universe wasn't collapsing but expanding still and accelerating.
Now what has gotten attention only recently is that the universe is expanding faster than light speed. Nothing moves through space faster than light.
The universe can do what it bloody well likes
I was absolutely gutted when Tom Baker left the role as the Doctor in 1981. It was the epic battle to the death against the Master on a, if I remember, a giant satellite dish. It was also the first time I see the Doctor's "regeneration" (which I still think is a fantastic plot device to cast another actor). But Tom's departure left me so devastated that I snubbed the later Doctors for the rest of the 80s.
I always respect LOYALTY
Radio telescope Pharos project. The Logopolis people were using block computation to stabilize the universe.
Based on actual scientific theory that since the big bang was so long ago whatever force propelled that explosion must therefore have been used up and entropy would have taken hold as the universe collapses back down into a big crunch.
The population had built a replica of the Pharos radio telescope to broadcast the signal to open the closed universe and stop, and reverse the impending collapse.
The Doctor acknowledged that the universe must someday begin to collapse.
The Logopolis leader told the doctor that if it wasn't for the entire population in effect meditating block computation the universe would have ended thousands of years ago.
The master killed a few of the people thus ending their work and the world's population existence.
The Doctor and the Master saved some of the computers that were going to be used to automate the process and fled back to Earth to install the computers on the original Pharos satelite.
Successfully stabilizing the universe.
The Master got the idea to blackmail the universe into accepting his rule or he would let the universe collapse.
The Doctor did battle with the Master only to fall from the catwalk and be mortally wounded.
The watcher approaches and merges.
He regenerates in to a young annoying prat.
He was my Doctor. I met Mr. Baker. He's a good guy.
Best Doctor ever, period! Both new or old.
Lala Ward and Tom Baker had real chemistry. Given they got married it is no surprise.
As a young kid I was well miffed when Tom left Doctor Who as he was my Doctor. However looking back on his tenure the last couple of years was shocking.
I lived through this, people forget what JNT brought with him, it was a breathe of fresh air, stories like The Horns Of Nimon where just embracing but that doesn't mean I liked all his changes and like Mathew Sweet once said in a review JNT's Doctor Who successes outweighed his failures.
A good thought out well researched video that I enjoyed
JNT kept Who alive far longer than the BBC wanted, he had a tough job but kept at it so I have full respect for him fighting to keep the show going.
Tom baker is and always will be The Doctor, something special happened when Mr Baker was cast and I doubt it will be ever be repeated.
William Hartnel started it all and Patrick Troughton made it work from the first regeneration, all Doctors are great but my personal Greats are: In no Real order: The first five, hope that makes sense.
John Nathan Turner did more for Doctor Who than any other producer did.
I believe first five Actors played Dr Who were so good because they each brought unique talents and past performances from their careers before became the Doctor. Even subtle aspects of their real personalities
JNT didn't prolong the show.. TheBBC couldn't be bothered to end it.
And he is still alive at age of 89(at least as far as I am aware).
I remember watching some of these episodes as a young child. The star field intro and question mark collar really resonated with me. As divisive as Nathan Turner was he definitely had some good aesthetic ideas that would appeal to certain parts of the audience.
Seasons 13 and 18 were my favourites with Tom Baker. I just felt like the 4th Doctor had the most depth in those seasons.
Thank you for this video.
You're welcome
I have recently subscribed to your channel and appreciate the effort you put into your video essays, with this one no exception.
Season 18 is one of my favourite seasons of classic Who, largely because it was the JNT era that I grew up watching. It does split opinion, but I applaud JNT & Bidmead for bringing the show into the 80's. 👍
Tom Baker was my 1st Doctor as I watched the half hour segments on the local PBS station during the weekday evenings 5pm back in the early 80s. Tom is my favorite from the original series just as David was for the new series. The series as a whole is very imaginative & it inspires my imagination too. Great stories 📺
I have rewatched your video presentation, almost a thesis. I am very impressed with the entire documentary. Articulate, informative, opinions stated as such and facts as facts. The detail to attention is astonishing. The low key almost monotone voice of the narrator is actually very effective and such a refreshing change from the OTT performances that fill our screen filled world. As a viewer, I felt like I was allowed even encourages to apply my own thoughts and analysis to what was being spoken. Overall, I think you should be immensely satisfied, knowing you have created an engaging, thorough and entertaining research and analysis of this turbulent time in the history of DW. Thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed myself.
Thank you. Much appreciated feedback. Hope you enjoy the other videos and the upcoming ones.
@@TheWatcherOnWho I am sure I will based on just the two I have rewatched . You must put a great deal of work and time into making these. I am certain a great number of people will enjoy watching videos that go beyond surface level. The fact you seek out the opinions of others is such a wonderful thing and so contradictory to the modern world of outspoken aggressive dialogue.
I enjoy season 18, no other Doctor gets their own retirement season. Whatever Tom Baker thinks about it, the writing is very concise and gave a whole new side to him. I can understand why it was a bit much for some viewers, the opening shots of Leisure Hive feel deliberately jarring. I always consider season 18 a popular season, buying Dr Who magazine in the 90's I remember it being voted the 8th best season (after 14, 7, 13, 5, 26, 12, 10), but I've become aware there are people who hate it. I'm glad the 4th Doc got to make his mark on the 80's and it was the perfect antidote to season 17, which was very messy, the two seasons are like night and day.
Great review
Thanks
Logopolis was one of my favorite episodes when it aired and continues to be very high on the list. Baker was amazing in it. I fail to see why any viewer would object to the "treatment" of the Doctor in these last episodes. Serious Baker had serious acting chops.
I still can’t help really liking The Keeper of Traken - lovely, sumptuous sets, some great characters played by some venerable actors, a good story, some good incidental music…
Quite a comprehensive and concise rundown of the Tom Baker years..
Well done..
Thank you
Thanks for this. I just finished the Tom Baker run. I have to admit, the fun left the show for me at the end of Season 15 when Romana replaced Leela. From that point on it was just was uninspiring and lacked the sense of adventure that I came to expect.
Not going to lie, after seeing this video, has made me interested to see a rewrite to this Season, no offence to anyone who likes this Season, I do like the look of this Season, and hopefully I'll get around to watching it eventually, but I respect all writers and actors / actresses who work on this show, even though they do some oopsies but for the one's who go too far, again please don't get offened, all I am is curious to see someone tackle this, if not, I'll do it myself, then again I might not where to start..And this has gone on long enough. Have a nice day or evening wherever you are, Bye.
from memory ( so could be mistaken ) but a comment always stuck with me, about Baker with some from WHO late 70's going to see Alien in cinema and Baker shouts out show us the ...monster! Obviously the beauty of Alien and other movies of that ilk is the very fact we dont see the monster or all of it. To me, this demostates the total lack of knowledge, skill, film making and story telling lack in WHO. No question, WHO's design of so many many things is stunning, inventive, certaintly 60's and 70's and then just a re-hash really asside from a few 'Moffet' ideas. And im certain a thesis could be written on how StarWars, Matrix etc 'borrowed' design from WHO. Heck, even Pertwees intro resembles Vaders helmet -at a push anyway -. IF ONLY - the Beeb ( or whoever is actually really responsible ) took a leaf out of Aliens ( Jaws ) and went down that route - they could perhaps of made a more success of the low budget they were given. And even lower lighting in the Tardis interior would of hidden those unwashed circles!!
Anything can be improved upon, but why Doctor Who of all shows? Is it bc it's nearer perfection than anything else?
Anthony Ailey always remembers me of Snidley Whiplash from old Dudley Doright cartoons. He even has curling mustache and cackling laugher😃😁
I think it's a pity Tom Baker didn't leave at the end of series 17, 'Shada' could have been completed after the strike and shown as a Summer Special before the series returned in the Autumn with Peter Davison starting a series early.
"Broadcasted" isn't a word. Broadcast, is.
Tom Baker was extremely fortunate since he known as THE DOCTOR. I don't blame him for distance himself from character. He still managed get other few intriguing acting roles while avoiding being typecast which might ended his career permanently.
Spot on summary - right on - thank you for saying what we so much of us all felt about our hero and some magaizine writers ideas that he knew better!
You're welcome!
You do fantastic work and have a highly intelegent comment section. I have to pause the video to read as I can not concentrate on both. Switching back and forth I lose information.
I was a fan of doctor who while in high school during the 70s and had liked Jon Pertwee a lot more as the Doctor than Tom Baker (who turned a SF action show into a slapstick comedy sitcom in many episodes). Tom's ego also came through, and it seemed that by the end of his stint he was firmly of the opinion that he was "the" doctor Who, and the scuttle-butt at the time of his departure was that he basically wanted the show to end with him and was resentful and uncooperative with the handover to the new doctor. There was even rumour that he hadn't been available for the filming of the regeneration scene, so they had to make do with his big 'death scene' after falling from the tower, and had to rework it into a regeneration scene to introduce the next doctor Who. May not be accurate, but that was certainly the impression fans at the time seemed to have in my (very limited) experience.
I quite liked the "hard science" element of season 18. I think it was the right decision, to make the Doctor more grounded and reduce the jokey elements - bring back a bit more drama of the life and death situations. There are some decent stories from season 18 : State of Decay, The Keeper of Traken(interesting way to reintroduce the Master) and Logopolis.
In my opinion Tom Baker had outstayed his welcome. The 4th Doctor stories had become tired and formulaic. It's interesting that he had offered his resignation previously. Personally I think the producers should have taken it then. One thing that really annoyed me about Tom's Doctor was that the Timelords were now well-known in the galaxy, taking much of the mystery of the Doctor away. In "The Keeper of Traken" the Master merged with Tremas, foreshadowing the Doctor's merger with the Watcher. Now we had a chance to inject mystery back into the character. Who was the Watcher? Who or what is this new Doctor? And then they threw all that away with a one-liner from Adric saying it was the Doctor all along!😠
Another change to the programme you forgot to mention: the 5th Doctor losing his Sonic Screwdriver.
Bakers last season was my first Doctor who experience. Looking back JNT for me was a mistake as a producer for Dr Who. Great vid mate 👍
Thank you
Same here, he is not my favorite Doctor as that goes to Patrick Troughton. But my very first. My very first episode was Warriors Gate.
@digipeeper If you like the 2nd Doctor you should check out my latest video ua-cam.com/video/TM9vVKTyINg/v-deo.html
@@digipeeper I love Troughton aswell as I've got older I've started to appreciate Pertwee more aswell when I was younger I wasn't keen tbh
@@digipeeper Troughton was funny, but considering he didn't really take many tools/weapons, and was a weak lil wuss, he would of died in a heartbeat doing any kind of exploring.
Our Earthbound adventurers have more supplies, and take more precautions that that idiot. Only doctors 3, 4, and the Dark Eyes 8 could survive the wild. Let alone the universe.
Tom Baker was the best Doctor Who. With Elizabeth Sladen as his companion, cant be beat. Those seven years, but especially the one's with Sarah Jane Smith, were the best stories and episodes of the series. Tom Baker is Doctor Who forever. Elizabeth Sladen is the best companion of the doctor forever.
From my POV the Fourth Doctor's death was a suicide. In any other situation, he would have whipped off the scarf and swung to safety instead of falling.
In my opinion Tom Baker’s reign as The Doctor peaked with the Philip Hinchcliffe era. With the odd exception it was a steady decline after that. You could sense the change immediately after ‘Horror At Fang Rock’ A great shame the BBC felt the need to move Hinchcliffe on, and yes Tom did stay on too long.
I didn't know people disliked series 17 so much, maybe it's my love of romana and the 4th doctor together that blinds me but I really love 17, probably my favourite of the classic series. Also I would say warriors gate is an all time classic, it's style and willingness to be confusing and philisophical is wonderful. It blows my mind that people just tuned in to, like, part 3 of warriors gate and just had to figure out what the fuck was going on in the middle of one of the most confusing serials of the series.
Howell also used musique concrete techniques, he explained it in a speech. It's on youtube.
My fave quotes from Tom, Harry Sullivan is an embicile, What a wonderful butler he is so violent,
Season 18 was one of the best due to the hard science in the stories and the funeral atmosphere filled throughout the season perfect for a departing lead actor. I loved the more grim mood in the stories which matched the Doctor's more elusive nature. I get tired of people suggesting he stayed too long. I really wish for the days when actors stuck around longer instead of this constant revolving door of actors we have in the new series. I would go so far to say I wish Tom Baker stayed on another year. The more, the merrier. I loved all 42 of Tom's stories (Yeah, I'm including "Shada" too).
He was apparently a nightmare to work towards many actors, crew and directors.
There are so many interviews with former people linked to the show stating this.
There is a YT video out there of him openly castigating poor Mary Tamm.
The man was born to play The Doctor.
Did he stay too long.
Maybe.
But, after the so called 'golden era' of Hinchcliffe and Holmes.
The quality of the show undoubtedly dipped. And , in places dipped significantly.
His first two seasons , plus parts of the Key to Time, were for me the best of "Classic Who'.
Ant p uk teacher retired
Tom Baker is the doctor and possibly the most important part of the regenerations. This is where the doctor changed to suit the changing times of 70s to the start of the 80s, which is threaded to now.
Might have stopped if he hadn't become this doctor number 4. This was a reboot of a sort back then to cast a younger actor out of no way, so to speak, and remember when he first appeared nobody likeed him at the beginning kind of thing this started back then of course this changed for the years Tom played this doctor. We've seen him fight with Deleks and Cybermen and his old friend the Master, and his wicked smile to verbally slay them all, but sometimes though the sets wobbled, it was how it was meant to be till Tom left that scarf behind and with a smile goodbye, but it was the last we saw of Tom Baker he tremendously returned to the fold of the tardis as we all saw him as powerful as ever as The Doctor of course he called himself something else. Could get any better that man who always breaks out with a wicked smile and tells everyone to call him The Curater. Interesting thing time machines are you never know where there are going to actually appear, so that is where two Doctors are in is the Tardis the Curaters Tardis? Tom Baker, fantastic, and i believe that everyone else thinks the same Sir Tom Baker his time is now come on King Charles 2nd please knight him...
Nice piece. Think you meant Charles III.
Not only survived but was able to move very easily
Baker is my favorite Doctor, but there were a few stories during Tom Baker’s era that weren’t so great and there were stories in Davidsons era that were awesome. I think taking a birdseye view of all the factors that led to the original run of Doctor Who being cancelled aren’t exclusive to whomever was the Doctor. It shows it’s very hard for a show to stay fresh for more than 6-7 years much less 26 years.
Between season 18 and 19 I remember wondering if someone who I only knew as Tristan Farnam, a country vet in “All Creatures Great And Small, would’ve able to pull it off. I think the key is not trying to be like any of the former doctors, which gives it a new feel. I believe although not as good or long-lived as Tom Bakers doctor he did a good job of it and likes to Joke about it as in “The Five-ish Doctors”.
I disagree that he stayed too long not only Tom Baker was "a" Doctor but he was "The" Doctor a legend it all went downhill when the 80's and Davison arrived.
No it wasn't Tom when the stories degenerated it was around Graham Williams era when the Dr stories went down hill he did his best but he did not get the writers after season 15 btw there was bad episodes in that season too ie underworld sun makers
Can’t agree with that. Tom was great, yes, but I loved Davison. His era did things that rarely happened in the Tom Baker era. Kinda and Enlightenment were ground breaking, Earthshock killed a companion, resurrection of the Daleks saw a companion walk out because of the horror of the Doctor’s battle with the Daleks and in Androzani, he sacrifices himself for a companion. It’s a remarkable era and a step up from the silliness that crept into the Williams era of Tom’s tenure.
@@adriansherlock3907
Williams isn't to blame for the silliness; it's Mary Whitehouse and the NVALA. By insisting that Doctor Who couldn't do horror, couldn't do violence, couldn't depict dark themes like fascism and each time the BBC issues a grovelling apology and promises to do better. Now how is Doctor Who, once sanitised, supposed to maintain a grown up audience? Clearly you do what the Children's TV does to engage an adult audience; you insert comedy and make it quite clear it isn't taking itself too seriously just like The Magic Roundabout does or The Wombles - these are kids shows but they do all right with an adult audience you want to prevent switching channels whilst waiting for the six o clock news, because the jokes in those shows are brilliant and the comedy is absurd. And if you're not taking Doctor Who too seriously the Graham Williams era is brilliant; it's fun - the stories are sometimes duff, the special effects are often atrocious, it frequently doesn't make sense in ways that cause continuity and canon keepers headaches (e.g. Romana's regeneration sequence) but to the casual viewer who doesn't care whether it makes sense, it's very endearing and set much of the formula for Nu-Who which is very gags orientated. (Nu Who, certainly pre-Chibnall was really a mix of the social commentary of the Letts era, the horror of the Hinchcliffe era and the quick fire wit of the Williams era; then Chibnall is a bit more JNT era in it's sense of self-importance). The Williams era was hamstrung by it's attempts to appease NVALA and the JNT era by its attempts to appease DWAS.
Tom was a great Doctor but the real Doctor is the 3rd Doctor as he had a chart hitting song saying so 🤣🤣🤣
John Nathan Turner ran that show into the ground & yeah Tom Baker was the pinnacle!!
My first season was season 18, the regeneration of Tom Baker's Doctor made me ask my parents to take me to Jodrell Bank observatory in '86 as a result! I loved Baker's last season and I grew up watching the Peter Davison seasons, so I come down on the side of JNT - I'm an 80s kid and I loved his period as producer, he gets some flak from some fans, but I feel that the 80s were always going to be a challenging era for Doctor Who, due to the big budget era of popular sci-fi Hollywood films that defined the era. JNT made some obvious mistakes with Colin Baker in particular, but he got a lot more things right than wrong for me.
You could see in Tom Baker's demoralizing behavior after Nathan Turner's took charge. He knew his tenure upon show coming to end.
Pennant Roberts went on to direct warriors of the deep and timelash he had directed shada, pirate planet and face of evil
I heard that they wanted to replace him after 4 years but could find no one to replace him at the time?
🤔
Baker or JNT?
@The Watcher On Who Tom Baker!
(it's in the "Doctor Who - 25th Anniversary Book" I think, [along with the fact that they wanted Jim Dale or Ron Moody for the 3rd Doctor before Jon Pertwee got the job] and that for the proposed 4th Doctor movie, said to be called "Doctor Who meets Scratchman" only the companion , to be played by "Bond Girl" Caroline Munroe ever signed on!)
🤔
I grew up on Dr. Who. I caught the last couple of years of John Pertwee, who i think was great, then enjoyed Tom Baker take the role. Baker, in my opinion, wasn't just the best Dr, he WAS the Dr. Companions came and went, (Leela was the best, Adric the worst) good scripts, bad scripts, different writers, producers, directors, but there was always Tom. Like he said, he didn't play the Dr, he was just being himself. I lost interest when they replaced him with a vet.
It though a sad moment it was right for Tom Baker to hang that scarf and move on to other things, and he might of course stayed but it seems that a actor needs to live outside the role he had done for a good few years, that said he still loves the fact his been the doctor, and had so many different adventures and won so many fans. I think now his in his 80s and still very keen for fans to play an important part in his career, and we all agree his the brilliant Doctor and had the opportunity to give this character a new mystery and depth along the way. Tom will will always the jelly baby Doctor a great time lord and the doctor who was fantastic our Doctor. I also think so was Jon Pertwee he like Tom was as just as fantastic and more importantly was the other doctor who before Tom. Tom Baker should have a knighthood?
My doctor
I'd say Warrior's Gate and Logopolis are near classics. The Master's return was brilliant. JNT was good in his early seasons. He was there too long. The question mark collar is horrid.
The question mark collars were so obviously a design gimmick that for me they broke the fourth wall far more than any of Baker's quips straight to camera could ever have done. To me a line delivered to camera is just a soliliquy (maybe a very short one); characters do it all the time in theatre (in fact the villain in Caves of Androzani utilizes it very effectively) but those question mark collars are a constant reminder that you are watching a tv show.
as a kid, I didn't understand how badly JNT ruined it for Tom Baker - and also some young innocent boys as well. JNT was probably the greatest monster Tom Baker faced in his tenure. I like Tom's performance, but in one regard his acting is terrible: all through Logopolis he is moping like he's walking the plank. Even in the collage here, you can see how some of his smiles are forced. I know how he kinda took over on the set and bossed directors etc but hey he did take the show to new heights singlehandedly - it wasn't K9 that drew in all those big viewership ratings, let's face it
He should have finished his tenure at “The Armageddon Factor.” It’s very tough to beat the writing Adams had done in the Key to Time Series and the chemistry between he and Tamm was phenomenal. Everything after that limped along.
The new companions didn't mesh with the 4th Doctor at all
Can you imagine the 4th Doctor dealing with the insufferable Tegan for an entire season?!
Do you think the Adric character was an attempt at recreating a Jamie type character?
Don't think so. Jamie was protective of the Doctor and evolved into his surroundings. Adric seemed with the 4th Doctor more like an apprentice and then basically became a smart arsed rebel with the 5th Doctor.
from memory ( so could be mistaken ) but a comment always stuck with me, about Baker with some from WHO late 70's going to see Alien in cinema and Baker shouts out show us the ...monster! Obviously the beauty of Alien and other movies of that ilk is the very fact we dont see the monster or all of it. To me, this demostates the total lack of knowledge, skill, film making and story telling lack in WHO. No question, WHO's design of so many many things is stunning, inventive, certaintly 60's and 70's and then just a re-hash really asside from a few 'Moffet' ideas. And im certain a thesis could be written on how StarWars, Matrix etc 'borrowed' design from WHO. Heck, even Pertwees intro resembles Vaders helmet -at a push anyway -. IF ONLY - the Beeb ( or whoever is actually really responsible ) took a leaf out of Aliens ( Jaws ) and went down that route - they could perhaps of made a more success of the low budget they were given. And even lower lighting in the Tardis interior would of hidden those unwashed circles!!
The Alien comment in the cinema has brought up in numerous interviews and documentaries. How much truth is in it, who knows? The whole less is more concept is a handy (budget reducing) device used in visual media in allowing the human imagination act on curiosity of what they aren't seeing such as Alien and Jaws. Hitchcock used the principle in the shower scene in Psycho by cleverly not including the knife stabbing or certain parts of the body and the human brain creating an image to fill in the blanks. There is a name to it can't remember though. Using this principle in Doctor Who can have its bonuses and maybe should've been used more in the classic series with the budget limitations. It's somewhat ironic that the theory has been used more often post 2005. Best example I think is in Midnight. Not sure why the idea wasn't used so much in the classic series as it would have added to the atmosphere. The limited appearance of a Dalek approaching Barbara in The Daleks, the limited appearance of the Zygons early in Terror Of The Zygons and the shadowy dingy space freighter in Earthshock are the tip of the iceberg of how it could've been used.
I've always wondered if the TARDIS had a toilet or a shower. The only doctor I ever saw take a shower was Pertwee, he also the only Doctor who changed clothes on a regular basis. Maybe Time lords do not have to worry about silly things like Pooping or Body odor. So being that Susan was his Grand Daughter does that mean at some point the Doctor was Married or at The very least involved sexually with a female Time Uh Person. When Peri was on the show I wanted the doctor to give her a good seeing to , as I felt like the Reason Colin Baker's Doctor was such a jerk is because he was extremely um frustrated. One other thing I've never quite understood is when you watch the Three Doctors and The Five Doctors the first Doctor comes across as the wisest and smartest of all, when he is actually younger than the others. Speaking of the Five Doctors I can only imagine how awesome it would've been if Tom Baker had actually been in it, because for me he was the first Doctor I remember seeing and generally when I think about Doctor who Tom Baker is the first person I think of. Maybe the new series explains all of this but as much as I've tried I just can't get into the new series for some reason. I love Doctor who tho. I really wish all of Hartnell's and Troughton's stories were in tact, and damnit there's someone somewhere who knows where those lost stories are. Any answers my fellow Doctor who fans?
Seasons 16 to 18 were the low points for this doctor though half of season 15 was terrible too
Fancy a jelly baby
Baker's and JNT's feud and ill relationship didn't help the end of Baker's era either.
It would of been interesting if Tom baker did the show for 8 years
It would have killed the show. We tend to forget that the show came very close to cancellation in 1981. It only survived because the beeb were desperate for a starring vehicle for Davison.
@@normanby100 i understand that but if he did for 8 years he would been close to making it to nearly 10 years but if he did do it for 8 years he would of been more tired and bummed out then he was during season 18 and he would aged a lot more during season 19 as he was starting to age around season 17 and was slowly getting more older looking around season 18, I love Tom baker he is my favourite his first three seasons of his era are the best he was great up until season 15a but after image of fendahl he become too silly and childish, his eps from season 15b to 17 in my opinion are a hit and miss and then his doctor becomes great again around season 18 like going back to hinchcliff era of the show in a sort of way but as I said it would of been interesting if he did the show for 8 years and 8 seasons
Tom Baker was brilliant as the Doctor. It was sad to see a rather somber Doctor during season 18 & sad to see Tom leave. I did not like most of the changes JNT introduced from the title sequence, the theme, the Doctor’s costume, the question marks. I also think the casting of Peter Davison wasn’t great. You needed someone who would be brilliant enough for you to easily move on from the 4th Doctor but I spent most of the Davison era wishing he wasn’t the Doctor.
Why did the 4th dr die from that fall when the tenth dr fell at a longer distance and survived
Timey wimey stuff lol
Bc Nu-hu isn't canon
I don't agree that he stayed too long. It was just the stories on his last season were just awful, in my opinion-meglos/leisure hive to name some. Then it got worse ftom then on.
Oh come on.....what the frig is wrong with adding humour. It was fantastic having Douglas Adams, and made the show better than ever. I don't know how anyone could watch this show with a strait face to begin with. For that matter why does everyone all of a sudden see a problem with K9 being a "plot device" to get the doctor out of difficult situations when literally EVERY PROBLEM IN THE NEW SERIES IS SOLVED WITH SOME RIDICULOUS MAGICAL SOLUTION. Did anyone complain when Rose fixed everything with magical sparkly dust? What about the Daleks magically getting sucked in reverse back to where they came from? What about Matt.Smith's entire career as the Doctor?
Bye dear
What do Tom Baker, as the Fourth Doctor, and his trademark multicoloured scarf, have in common?
They both hung around... too long;)
Haha
"Broadcast" is the past tense - not ''broadcasted.''
Save yourself a syllable and some breath.
No he did not. He simply is the Doctor.
I never really liked Tegan Adric was preferable
I never understood her appeal. She just seemed whiny to me.
@@markpostgate2551 I agree. Tegan did nothing but complain. The Doctor got her home. Tegan went out of her way to find the Doctor again and rejoin the crew. Then she did nothing but complain. She may have started to grow up, especially after the snake adventure, but I was beyond caring about her by then.
that's what JNT said
3:12 "Christopher "Haitch" Bidmead?
H = "Aitch", my friend...
JNT should have left with the 5th . After that he was awful with poor story's 6ths costume and naff villains ie burty basset anyone ! and stupid casting ie Ken Dodd 🙄
Vengeance on Varos & Revelation of the Daleks are "awful stories"? If anything, season 22 has better stories than season 21.
I love 4th but i could admit some episodes with him are more Boring than nuwho season 11. Some companions are wasnt suitable to him. Leela, Adric, Romana first .
Season 11 was forgettable and annoying at the same time. Not boring.. maybe
I can't think of a Doctor Leela would have worked better with. I think that was a great partnership. Tom was missing Liz Sladen and resented the newcomer not being her, but that's not what you see on screen. The characters complemented each other marvellously. The two Romanas and Leela were the most innovative and mould-breaking companions Doctor Who ever had.
I loved the first Romana.
I think you meant: Nu-hu series 10.
@markpostgate2551 Leela is annoying. Although Sara Jane is good, overrated, and older companions like Susan and Zoe are denigrated to make her seem unique as a "strong female character", when she wasn't.
The absolute worst thing about Tom's run was Adric. Just absolutely terrible acting. Never been so happy for a character to be killed off.
I think it's due to the actor also having a very punchable face. I'm sure he's a nice man in real life, but tgat's how he comes across to people.
Watching City of Death in isolation, it doesn't look like the show needed to change at all, let alone as drastically and majorly as it would under JNT. At that point it looks like the show has a solid model, a beautiful ethos and a fresh, rich future ahead. If it was a viewer's first story they would instantly get the show, in a way that sadly can't be said of the continuity-obsessed stories we'd get in the 80's.
However I've been forced over the years to admit that Season 17 as a whole does point to a show in need of a dramatic overhaul. By Nightmare of Eden and Horns of Nimon it's all started to get incredibly samey, as though the stories are blurring into one another. The opening of Horns of Nimon really presents the problem. A really good Doctor Who story needs a good, dramatic opening hook to draw the audience in and get them compelled from the start. Here we get no such effort for a long ten minutes' screentime, as though the makers had just grown complacent that Tom Baker was draw enough, and had that kind of complacency carried on, it's doubtful viewers would've stayed interested. Maybe Season 18's ratings were blowback from that. A sign that it was too late.
A change was needed, but I'm not convinced we got the right change under the right people. The best part of Season 18 for me is State of Decay, and really it's the model they should've gone with for the decade ahead (probably would've been the better swansong for Tom even). But having Terrance Dicks still as a mainstay was the last thing JNT wanted.
The sudden influx of annoying companions would be a problem that dogged the era ahead, as would the continuity obsessions that saw the show eating itself hollow. To me, bringing the Master back was a mistake. The character should've gone out in a blaze of glory in The Deadly Assassin, rather than been continued constantly as a tired has-been.
Logopolis for me feels less like an end to Tom's era, and more a humorless Davison story he's stuck in under protest. My biggest issue with it is that for seven years, Tom's Doctor had been a hero who'd saved so many worlds from destruction, and yet Logopolis instantly undoes so much of his good work in one go. What makes it worse is it's largely down to the Doctor's own folly in leading the Master to Logopolis in the first place. Which is the other problem, where the Doctor's actions and decisions largely defy any sense and just seem self-defeating. Very much the opposite of what a regeneration story should be about, where the Doctor's decisions that lead him to sacrifice himself should be comprehendible, clear and defining.
Logopolis sadly points to how grim and miserable the show was to get under this change of direction. The show from hereon would become a nasty one I didn't like anymore (aside from a few isolated gems). In that sense I think we were better off in the laughs of the Graham Williams era. The worst was ahead, and so sadly for me this does feel like a change for the worse.
City Of Death was a complete one off and maybe the perfect blend of what Season 17 should've/could've been. As much as a good story it is though it is quite padded. That padding is however the location shots through Paris. Don't get me wrong it's a great story but it benefited from good locations and had it not had that treatment it wouldn't be as highly thought of. But I agree with season 17 as a whole, too slapstick, too samey, too over reliant on Tom Baker. Season 18 like I said in the video is generally hit and miss in terms of stories. State Of Decay is good but it wouldn't have happened if there wasn't a shortage of stories and JNT and Bidmead having to venture into the unused scripts collection. I get JNT wanting to give opportunity to new directors and writers (or have more control) but feel he missed a trick by not occasionally leaning the experienced writers as well.
Peter Davison was my favourite Doctor!..... Should have done a fourth season!... Colin Baker started the downhill!..... and John Nathan Turner!.
JNT and his bullsh*t made the 4th Doctor into a Muppet . The original RTD was the problem
Colin Baker was the death of the original series and Tennant almost killed the new version.
Tennant almost killed the new version??? Respectfully…WTF ARE YOU ON ABOUT? Subjectively you can not like tenants doctor that’s fine but objectively you cannot suggest tennant nearly killed the show. It’s popularity increased massively under his run and took a slow slight decline after his run
@@erosion271 He also said that Colin Baker was the death of the original show. Why did you silently accept that, but then felt the need to jump to the defense of that cartoon Casanova? The show's popularity did not increase massively during Casanova's time. Nu-hu's viewing figures reveal that people only tune in to see the new Doctor's first adventure, only to leave soon after. Look at series 1: they lose have their audience by the time the finale rolls around. Nu-hu puts its "effort" in season finales instead of season openers - repeated mistake every series.
@@FreeTheDonbas bro i like colin baker too wtf you on about. mistakes were made during colin's era while tennant's era went from strength to strength. Those are facts. So don't presume shit yeh
@@erosion271 Casanova's era was one big mistake. Series 2 was garbage, so was every Christmas Special, then the worst episode of all was his final one: End of Time. The only time it was mildly good was in Blink, which he was hardly in, thankfully.
@@FreeTheDonbas it’s clear you have some strange blind hatred for Tennant. I don’t converse with people who can’t have nuanced opinions on things