The entire ending is Tifa taking one big L. Tifa: My best friend and only confidant just died... And now my love interest and oldest friend shut me out completely because he's become infatuated with a illusory version of my deceased friend he created to block out his own trauma... Now I can't speak to either of them... Talk about pouring salt in the wound. I just look at her and feel bad now.
So the version of One Winged Angel in Remake was called “One Winged Angel: Rebirth,” giving us the subtitle for the second game. In the second game, Rebirth, the version of One Winged Angel is called, “One Winged Angel: Reborn.” So game 3, “Final Fantasy VII: Reborn?”
I noticed this a WHILE back, and I agree that it's definitely foreshadowing, but this time around, I feel like it's a little too similar to Rebirth's title, too, be the case. BUT at the same time, it very well could be.
I always thought Reunion would’ve been the best title for the 3rd game but they’re already had it for the Crisis Core Remake. Reborn may sound too similar to rebirth but I guess we’ll see.
In an interview it was stated that they originally wanted Reunion to be the subtitle of Part 2, but since Crisis Core had it they were unable to use it so the naming convention of One Winged Angel wasn’t done purposefully.
I agree with Max's point that Cloud falling in his delusion that Aerith is still alive is in character because he did the same with his mom (he blocks out moments of her when he returns to Nibelheim) and Zack (literally blocks the entire context of his death and even rewrites it to be an event he couldn't do anything about when in reality he could have potentially done something if he hadn't been mako poisoned). All those deaths are related to his own incapacity to do anything to prevent them, three people he cared about and cherished a lot.
God I remember this, I stayed up the entire night watching it even though I went in at 4 to work the next day. Just kept listening during it, kept me up with the hype
Her excitedly saying, "Do you promise," right at the end when Cloud mentions that he would stop Sephiroth sells me on this theory. Aerith would NEVER have responded that way. From the moment Cloud looks up at Scaerith at the edge of the water I get bad vibes. The music is unsettling, and the way she looks is too. Something is very wrong. Something beyond Clouds fucked up mind. It could just be a delusion, but I don't think it is. I'm like 80/20. A lot of people mention Nanaki sensing Aerith like its some smoking gun completely disproving this theory, but Jenova tricked him in the OG. I don't blindly trust his special senses. They're senses, and senses can be fooled.
You can also tell it’s a facsimile IMO because of how she does nothing but quote lines from earlier in their adventures. The only exception is when she talks about meteor which is weird because I don’t even think that’s Sephiroth’s stated goal at this point. They’ve all had visions of it for certain and know what the black materia is but in this game that is what the Gi are up to. She’s clearly some made up version of Aerith using Cloud’s memory and his expectations of what Aerith might want or might say. Cloud did the same damned thing earlier in the game when he quoted Sephiroth in the materia cave. She’s creepy AF. In my first play through and first time seeing her I immediately had red flags that Cloud was either seeing a weird illusion or that it was Jenova. They didn’t frame her face in darkness and follow it up with a dead eyed smile by accident.
I watched this .... I think it is aerith... He also said about the red glint in her eyes on another pod .... That's just reflection of the bronco..... I think it's too deep here in theory. She is part of the stream looking out for her buds most probably
He did, he said so in an interview or a panel or something. Said there were a few lines he read that had a lot of emotion and weight behind them, to the point where the director and people listening in were getting kinda emotional.
@@call_me_state280 he definitely will. I’ll even go as far as saying that not only we’ll see Cloud accepting Aerith’s death and laying her to rest in the lake, no, that moment will be a playable sequence where the player will actively carry her body to the lake. Just to hammer in the reality of the situation.
Omg a 5 hour video of Max talking about FFVII. Sign me up!! Also 4:51:16 I believe the real Black Materia is still the temple. If you here as Cloud and Aerith fall together, the temple implodes into an object and falls straight down. It down there I believe Cloud gets the Black Materia that's in his pocket at the end of the game. Just my theory.
I come back to this video all the time, because I can never get enough of Max and his almost child like wonder with this series. Only person outside of myself that i've even met that could just sit and talk up theories for this series.
@@someoneelse9680 i also thought about multiple cloud's doing it and it can very well link with advent children where you see his 'afterimages' on each of the blades. but at the end of the day it just very much depends on how they execute it. 😁
They actually show how it could look like in the theater play, Cloud literally start teleporting to grab the swords to attack Barret and Nanaki. Also, Cloud using the power from the lifestream to divide himself to use a special attack sounds really cool. It is almost like he is using a type of Materia.
About 19:00-19:30 in. "They've been cooking this shit forever." Thirty years. The same developers. No work of fiction has ever had this much time, love, and care put into it. We're not just in unknown FFVII territory, we're in full out unknown fiction territory. From here on out, we can only guess. Thank's a lot, Arsonius, or Max Dood. Whoever you are; keep rockin' on!!!!
I would argue that Brandon Sanderson’s work on the Cosmere will be approaching this. He’s 20 years in and has built up an incredible universe thus far. Funny enough, Brandon has cited being a huge FF fan and even used FFX as inspiration for one of his stories.
Max has the Aerith thing partially right IMO, but I think there are two Aerith's in that last scene, one before the flash he gets when he holds the materia and one after. They are two different Aerith's, one is real in the lifestream before the flash, and one after the flash that is a fake projection of Aerith by Jenova.
I was really against the Aetith is in his mind idea. But with the 'wake up' scene it may lead to that being part of that. But, with Aetith showing up to fight, the rainbow cloud sword deflect, and the broken sky that only Cloud can see- there's still at least 1 Aetith left alive. They'll use the 1 Aetith alive the same way they did the Life stream Aetith from OG. Also, when the timelines converge to 1 at the end of the game, we get to see the final timeline Aerith die again. Cause of course they would do that.
I think it’s going to be Remember. Remember you’re not him cloud. Remember so the memories could restore the white materia. Remember the true events of Nibelheim. Remember that you really didn’t save her. Remake, Rebirth, Remember
Nanaki was also experimented on by Shinra in a similar way to Cloud. This could explain why he can sense "Aerith" (almost certainly Jenova or Sephiroth or Jenova/Sephiroth) at the end. With the real Aerith saying goodbye at the very end of the cinematic. He could also be experiencing something we weren't meant or allowed to see yet. But I'm 75% sure the Shinra connection is the key.
@@e.t.gohome8042 No. You're coping. Aerith is dead and that is NOT her in the final scenes. Max is spot on with the jenova manipulation and the fact that its the less popular theory only proves how subversive to most peoples expectations it is. It is all a manipulation. Aerith in that final scene is just a soundboard, its all memories and lines she has said in the past, word for word, either in remake or rebirth. It is a mimic of a dead person. It is Jenova.
@@grayfarron5077 I’m actually not coping. We actually don’t know what happen to Aerith and I agree she is probably dead. However, that doesn’t explain why Red senses her and why that scene is objectively portrayed in a positive manner, even after they leave. There is even a shot that focuses on Aerith shoes which is exactly what is done at the church on the dream date. It’s foolish to room out the possibly that she is a spirit that can somehow still be sensed by Cloud.
A big part of the "rainbows" hunt/theory is actually..the fandom kind of getting it right. The rainbows mean something, its.. apart of clouds delusion. The rainbows shroud and dull the harsh reality and kind of smudges out everything that doesnt line up with the "dream" he is creating. Especially in the scene at 4:11:00 where cloud leans down to Aerith on the ground, the rest of the party is THERE.. but suddenly they are gone as Cloud picks up Aerith and says "Hey, wake up." and everything is fine and dandy. The rainbows arent a sign of timelines splitting, its a sign of cloud's psyche splitting.
@@Locustskies Just because rainbows exist doesnt mean theyre all related, the rainbow symbolism in the saving aerith scene is all it applies to here. Your logic that all rainbows are the same thing would also disprove the "Oh well rainbows mean a timeline has split" so... are you saying everytime cloud goes into the moogle world its a timeline split..?
@@grayfarron5077 You said yourself that the rainbows are a theory. I noticed the same rainbow applies to the mogstools and just thought I’d point that out. Who knows if the rainbow is a mark of a new timeline? Or what it all means since no one is supposed to figure this out. I have three theories myself for an ending regardless of the timelines. All that they prove is that both Sephiroth and Aerith can control them.
The core things that Sephiroth feeds off is why Aerith is the perfect counter. He gains power from your grief, which is why Awrith always tries to bring joy and happiness to weaken him.
This is so good after watching the recent Rebirth event where the devs talked about the intentions behind the ending. Max was so right. Again thank you for the great vod!
Our Aerith: Don’t worry about Sephiroth, I can handle him, he must be stopped by a CETRA, AND IM THE LAST. Jenova/Aerith: Do you promise you’ll stop Sephiroth for me Cloud?
It's just a bad translation. In the Japanese translation he didn't promise her and she didn't say that here I think it's the true translation for the Japanese one but I'm not truly sure okay. Cloud: Will you be okay on your way home? Aerith What if I say it's not okay? Aerith This is Cetra's place. Cloud What If something happens Aerith I'll give you a signal. Cloud Okay, I won't miss it. Aerith: I'll pray a lot to stop the meteor. So Cloud, do your best. Cloud: Hurry and find Sephiroth and defeat him. Aerith: I'm sure!! Cloud I'm sure :) Well I guess it's the same but only the promise is not there.
@@jodaakbr7227 that’s an entirely different conversation, not a translation mistake. ‘I’ll stop Sephiroth’ is not the same as ‘go find Sephiroth’. ‘I’m sure’ is not the same as ‘promise?’. If your translation is the correct one, than the English translation is completely wrong and switched up the character’s motivations.
@@jonesy6354 I personally don’t think so either, but honestly why not? Jenova (and for that matter Sephiroth) clearly have the ability to do so. They both did it before and Jenova basically wiped out the entire Cetra people with that tactic. So yeah, while I agree with you, unless you can give a waterproof reason why Jenova isn’t pretending to be Aerith, it’s definitely a possibility.
4:23:30 Plot twist, the Gi are a race of people that fled to Gaia from their home that was being eaten way my Jenova, and Jenova followed them to Gaia.
I believe Cloud saved her "in some way" and I wouldn't be surprised if Zack somehow meets up with Aerith and they have some input in the 3rd game together... Because we still haven't seen Zack and Aerith even say hi to each other.
I think people playing rebirth were split into two groups after playing through to the end - whether they were confused about the ending or not. Those who were confused were _more or less_ successfully junctioned onto Cloud by the developers, as a means to be invested into playing part 3. Those that are following along and are not confused (I.e believe Aerith is dead/alive in the lifestream, cloud being controlled by Sephiroth/tricked by Jenova, timeline fuckery is done and over with) are already along for the ride with part 3.
There's also those of us who followed along fine and still hated it; for focusing on multiverse 'plot' that we don't care about, at the expense of ruining the emotional impact of Aeriths death.
I always wanted a video like this Max talking FF 7 theories anytime Max talks about FF7 and what could happen in the next game gets so hyped thank you for making this video 💯
Sephiroth is not feeding on bad vibes. he is tainting the lifestream. Thats the battle tifa saw. Thats why the planet refuses alien lives. He is tainting the lifestream so Aerith wont succeed stopping the meteor.
I think at 2:20:10 its Jenova in him that gets aware of whats up and she can use Clouds Fucked up State to later show up as her and tell him what to do. Like for example… to give Sephiroth back the Black Materia. Its fine :) Together with Sephiroth explaining to Cloud he was „lied“ to by Tifa. Something like that. Because for now we havent seen the good Jenova that is mentioned in the Mythologie. We have seen the Hate and Fear Version of her. Not the those we Love Version. Cloud thinks it is Tifa at one Point but thats as close as we get to it.
Was a great watch :), one thing i wish i could was forget both remake/rebirth so i can play them back to back like they are the first time :), it does scare me thinking we only got 1 game left then its all over. I don't want it to ever end want it to be a constant mystery. one thing i did notice is Cait Sith predictions the first two predictions the toys eyes blink Green, but the final one his eye blink red, maybe a subtle hint that the final prediction isn't written in stone yet?
2:53:48 What's even more fascinating about this is, one of the developers (I think Nomura) filled in some context to explain that Aerith also doesn't like the sky because she feels that's what took her mother away from her and she also essentially associates it with boundless terrifying freedom.
Your content has been so nice to follow when it comes to FF7, because you're probably as passionate and knowledgeable as me. And I love to see that same drive I got in someone else. xD
It's all aeriths doing. She saved biggs and zack and put then in a world together so they can figure out what's going on. Zack wouldn't be able to figure anything out by himself. When biggs accepted his fate, he returned to the planet, zack didn't. Zack ended up in clouds subconscious to give cloud the strength to defeat sephiroth. I don't think zack even fought alongside cloud, it was all in his head. I think aerith sent cloud to the edge of creation to fight sephiroth after zack ended up in clouds subconscious, because she knew the whole parry and zack would defeat him. Can't explain Marlene though, I'm sure we'll find out in part 3 how she knows so much.
With you 100% came to that conclusion also. Ending Aerith is Jenova. The music tells the story. When they're mourning by the lake too, music is hella creepy.
If I had to hazard a guess, I’d predict that Zack will eventually converge with the Remake/Rebirth timeline in some shape or form (like we briefly saw in this game). The game might build toward a convergence as part of the climax or final act, where Zack’s role will be a key point in determining the outcome of the story. His presence could lead to new possibilities for the characters' fates, with a similar ending like the main timeline (original FFVII), but with a different outcome for the character roster.
The shot Max discusses at 1:59:00 is nearly a 1:1 match with a shot in Advent Children - the scene Sephiroth explains his goal of using the planet as vessel to travel the cosmos. It's right before the actual fight between Cloud and Sephiroth starts.
About the Cloud question. One of the best things in this game, is how Cloud holds his Sword in the intro Nibalheim section VS how he holds it in the present. They contrast this at one of the final Sephiroth fights as well.
I was just playing through again and I noticed when you hear the cetra voice explaining their fight with jenova in the temple of the ancients (when you see the green hologram of it), it says that it "is a deceiver who steals the faces of the dead", or something along those lines. Now that I hear that, I really do think Jenova is going to be using Aerith to haunt cloud in the next game, and at least some of what you see are her at the end of the game is jenova. I think it's a mix of his own mental block, her actual spirit, and jenova coming in at different moments. I think jenova is going to be a big part of his visions of aerith going forward though.
Here a thought maybe it was ever crisis sephiroth may be altering things from the edge of creation but sephiroth we see in the life stream alters the fix. What if ever crisis sephiroth is trying to stop ff7 sephiroth. Basically fighting hmself
2:02:45 we actually do know how cloud got memories of the other world. It was shown in remake. It was when he got in contact with aerith with the arbiters of Fate. When she gave him the flower.
Food for thought. Dev point, put in gameplay of various FF7 games from over the years of Cloud fighting Sephiroth. Mobile, Smash, etc. When Cloud is being pushed through time lines. It'd be fun to see. At about 1:32:45 of this. Edit: Did they fight in Ehrgeiz? I don't remember.
@4:27:20 i thought the same. Red can sense her so it cant be Jenova but in the OG game when you choose to give the Black Materia to Red to protect even he gets fooled by Sephiroth immatating one of the party members and even he couldn't sense the difference. That's why I believe Aerith is Jenova using Cloud to get the Black Materia to Sephiroth physical form.
Excited for 3 odd ball things 1.)seeing how the party blames/ are pissed at Cloud as they are going to the Northern crater. Seeing everyone dive into hatred and paranoia is gunna be insane 2.) How much depth they are going to get into the War with Wutai, magnus materia, the Weapons, and the Return to Midgar. Christ, in the original you had to set red flags to not get lost in Gaea’s Cliff. We saw how huge the world was in Rebirth..Part 3 is going to fucking deliver. 3.) Clouds redemption. If they are going to go heavy into the despair early on… the payoff is going to be worth it.
Max they do talk about meteor. Before Sephiroth appears to the party at the temple, the Cetra tells the party "The black materia will summon the destroyer of worlds. The meteor shall fall, sundering the skies..... shattering the Earth." So it would make sense that Aerith would know about it at the end if that is her. Or that Jenova is accessing Clouds memories to try and manipulate him.
Max, Sephiroth didn't merge timelines when he reset Cloud saving Aerith. He said, NO, you're sticking to this timeline and reinforced the OG timeline. But the sole surviver Aerith lives in a timeline only Cloud can see, as he was the only there. But, we got two things out of this. We got a Coud Saved Aerith and a Sepheroth tweaked the timeline back on course and gave Cloud a mind Aerith. My bet: at the N crater, Cloud at the lowest of his lows comes to the realization that his Aerith is dead. When you fix Cloud's mind and uncover the Zax stuff, you'll also be realised to the fact that 1 Aetith exists in the timeline Cloud saved her.
Well! You can of course think that. I think 100% that Arieth are dead and the Arieth that appears in the end of the game is either comming from the lifestream or happens in Clouds head.
@@AnjektusStudio that's possible. Heres my thinking: 1, Sephiroth acknowledges her when she appears. On the life stream point, She's using the weapon that you gave her in game and still has the white materia tied back in her hair, (which falls out when she dies). And we really haven't been shown how dead people in the lifestream work. Like if the can physically manifest. They never could in the OG. So I think they're gonna use the similar beat as the OG, but rather than livestream Areith we have alternative timeline Aerith. We also never got her max limit break or ultimate weapon, so maybe playable in part 3?
44:13 When looking with the perspective that the REUNION is that the timelines converge/merge in to the one where sepi sepi is alive aka the new primary one. You would be right that sepi sepi could change the timeline to always be that She dies. Didnt think about this, but it makes so much sense. edit: 46:55 that effect on buster sword looks like Lifestream it self. Like pure lifestream edit: 1:20:12 Zack reality aerith who is "soulless/in coma" will get the Soul from Clouds reality aerith, and aerith is back alive again. Then in the end She will stay with zack, because she is supposed to be dead in Clouds reality.. Heard it here first. You can see similiar thing happen in 1:48:20 when Cloud enters other timeline clouds Soulless body. edit: 1:39:46 The ending credit wrap up on the Train, and then it goes trough by few scenes from original and wraps the whole story how it went in original with PS1 gameplay footage and the real cradits come when OG cloud wins now restored timeline... Damn that would be a peak, doubt it will happen tough. edit 3:27:58 I dont agree with dood, i do think that might actually be aerith, she does affect people like in Advent. and in Ending of OG ff7 where marlene goes "flower girl?". So this might just be Cetra thing where she can still travel linearally with time with these people who are still alive. "be next to them" because they still remember her strongly so she can remain next to them, and maybe cloud can see her because of the jenova cells, being jenova is heavily polluting the lifestream. Tought the aerith after death when sitting next to tifa, was MEGA creepy definetly had that "uncanny valley" feeling of something is off, and migh be right that it was a jenova. So then there are 2 aeriths. first one that is the one that is UNSEEN but is next to other people being her self like a "spirit", like in ending cinematic. The 2nd is the one cloud sees, like when holding her corpse or before getting in to the bronco at the end, telling to wakeup and when sitting next to tifa. aka = cloud is fucked up bad, hope he goes limb soon, need to hero to wake up. Basicly you cannot trust ANYTHING cloud sees or does, but if cloud is not interacting with aerith like in ending where Aerith is seen on the background looking at barret and the gang fixing bronco then that one is real one, the Spirit aerith.
After browsing through, its unfortunate that pretty much all the songs max reacted too have been cut. Guess I need to go watch the vods instead since those offer the best reactions and insight from max.
I am currently subscribed to the idea that the devs are borrowing concepts from Buddism for the lifestream, universes and world of FF7. Each dog we've seen representing a "timeline" is actually representing a state of being/conciousness. I believe in Buddism there are 7. With the 7th state of conciousness being Nirvana. As it currently stands, we know of 6 I think. 1.Beagle 2.Terrior 3. Pomerianian/Spitz 4. Pug 5. Shiba I think there was one more but it is possible it was just a sad looking terrior where Zack gets gun down at the Shrina building. Maybe next installment will merge all these into one to create a new Stamp. One that sorta represents the "best" or at least unified timelime.
And it looks like the lifestream is giving power to clouds buster . But I also think they are saying out of all the timelines there is only one possible time where aerith can be saved and sepiroth also feels he's in control of time but just as much as sepiroth is aerith is and instead omnipotent aerith in the one wake up scene that seems loopy where cloud is seeing her is her saying don't get upset over my loss you can find me . And I think cloud was supposed to get the both materia so this was possible . So even tho cloud is losing his shit he is having aerith trying to tell him there is hope . I have so many theories tho but I think thats the reason for cloud losing his shit is to not forget while everyone else is grieving that there is a chance only he can find but sepiroth don't want him to find it hence sepiroth looking for aerith in the one town towards the end of the game . She's trying to stay alive so they can all meet again .
Sephiroth said this in Cloud's trial in the Jessie death scene 'YOUR FRIEND DIED IN YOUR ARMS, AND YOU DIDN'T SHED A TEAR' Possible linkage to Aerith's death??? Cloud cries and Sephiroth said 'DON'T WEEP, YOUR TEARS ARE EMPTY'. I may be mistaken but when Aerith died in Cloud's arms, Cloud only cries in current timeline and not in OG.
Ever considered that they all might be in separate realities at the same time? That's why they are all confused as to what each other is experiencing. They are traveling together and yet they are seeing and hearing things from different perspectives. It's the literal meaning behind perception and points of view. Nothing is true while being simultaneously absolute. Also, Remember Jessie's dad and his time in Mako Storage. Dude passed through the lifestream and ended up in another reality. He's alive, but trapped in another plane of existence. That's why I think Aerith is now with Zack in his reality. She woke up and will work with him on that side while the main party will chase down Sephiroth on their split ends. It will end with the Reunion. When all roads meet.
I haven't watched the whole video yet so I'm not sure if this point is gonna be raised but anyway. Since materia are shown to be thoughts, memories, hopes and prayers, Cloud holding onto an empty vessel for them could mean that in the third game Cloud's own hopes could manifest into a new kind of materia. And I think it might be on the same level as Meteor and Holy, OR it could be the materia to end Sephiroth specifically. Whatever the actual materia is gonna be is of course a mystery but I'm almost 100% sure that it's gonna contain Cloud's wish/prayer for something
I will die on this hill - a punchy, conclusive title like "Final Fantasy VII: RETOLD" for the third game sounds like it could be really cool and effective to wrap up the 30-year cook
My theory is Aerith is alive in one time line (the one we fight with) and well encounter her at some point again, but I also can see other people's ideas of them wanting us to think that. When is Jenova manipulating us and it's intended to fool us so when we find were big shocked
As soon as I saw the screen flicker when everybody is mourning Aerith and cloud sees her sitting next to him and he smiles, I immediately thought that Sephi was messing with him. Cloud doesn’t know how to handle trauma and I also think that the fact that he’s mako poisoned and has Jenova cells makes him controllable and kinda weak
I think what happens in the end is that Cloud is perceiving two timelines simultaneously, and he is so fu**-up that he doesn't comprehend what's happening. The game show us that he really saved Aerith in one timeline, and she is there until they part with the airplane, but this one timeline is doomed to cease to exist (showed by the scar on the ending that only Cloud can see because he is the only one perceiving both timelines). She knows this and sees him off, so that he can move on, and she stays waiting for Sephiroth to kill and merge that timeline again. The other timeline, the one without the scar where Aerith died and the one that the entire party perceives, is that way because the game wants to show us that this is the one timeline that will not cease to exist (that goes like the OG).
The big theme of the original Final Fantasy VII is about dealing with death - dealing with loss. Now the Remake/Rebirth Final Fantasy VII's are focusing on one of the most important aspects of dealing with death / loss - accepting it. These games are about getting the fans to accept the death of Aerith.
Calling it. Next game is either Retold or Recounted. I did some unrelated research a while back n heard that in the Hebrew bible/language the word safer/sefer is book or writen document n the narrator said something along the lines of a book being a story recounted... I came up with Retold to fit the title structure but I thought since the last couple games titles were referencing Sephiroth why not the last? 🤷😅
It would be really cool to see the Jenova theory of Aerith be true for the ending scene of the game. As they changed Remake's ending, it could be a sinister twist to see them remove Aerith's character completely from this ending scene of Rebirth, as she is not real, in theory. Showing Cloud observing someone who truly isn't there.
I think Aerith and Sephiroth in this Trilogy are the Visual Explanation of Lifestream White and Black. Literally. While Sephiroth takes over his Clones but Aerith doesnt want that. She doesnt like that Approach its explained. And everything that happens so far ads up 100% with what happens in the two Games. + some other new Aspects. But in Generell its that Story.
Well, tbf, i also think Jenova at some Point WILL explain to Cloud that Jenova-Aerith was a Fake and only there to manipulate him. In the Crater it makes the most Sense to me. But i might be wrong here. Maybe Sephiroth and Jenova are just playing together to get the Black Materia and thats it. Maybe we get the Tifa and Cloud Lifestream Szene after that and Tifa explains to Cloud that Aerith is gone and he needs to accept that is the Case because otherwise Jenova might always be able to get back and fuck him up. Hmmm. I like that outcome honestly where Cloud no longer is the „Master of his own illusionary Reality“ as he calls it in he OG.
Something I (should) keep in mind - and I've been watching Final Fantasy 8 plot theories in recent weeks, because UA-cam video rabbit hole - is that Sqex's choice of script, colours, symbolism, people, places, things, and plotting is entirely intentional. OG FF7's cutscenes and plot layout are choppy and uneven. Maybe due to brisk art changes and cut content? FF8's cutscenes, etc, are more tightly directed and nothing is left to add sprinkles to the top. (The ending specifically, but also the opening matches scenes from it, like it's one continuous scene.) I've been watching scenes in Rebirth like a hawk once I learned what Remake was trying to tell us, so I'm eagerly looking forward to the final game.
There are no parallel universes. It's all in the lifestream. It's like summoning NPCs in Fromsoftware games or going to other players' worlds. You can't understand the story without understanding what a lifestream is or how it works. Materias are the crystallized state of energy. In Bloodborne, the energy in the blood crystallizes and becomes bloodstones. Both companies use very similar world-building details.
I wonder if when all three games come out if it will be possible to make a mod where you can play straight through all three with the same materia collection and combat system (i.e. Synergies in Remake, Remake's Enemy Skills in Rebirth). Or possibly release some collection later on that connects them. I know they run on similar engines but I don't know the in-depth parameters of something like that.
I feel like Aerith/Sephiroth/jenova is testing out whether they are hidden well enough and throughout the scene shows that they are especially when she looks down at red and almost smirks before lifting her head.
I think Aerith is fooling Sephiroth to think she is dead. When we see her saved by cloud it has the color whirls going all around then when it focus on Sephs blade as it pans down theres a shift and we see the sword angle is changed then blood spills out. Also when Tifa first sees Aerith there isnt any blood then the shift happens again and there is blood.
It was the white whispers that came out of the sword which changed the timeline... Sephiroth controls the black whispers. The planet and Aerith controls the white whispers. The planet needed aerith to die so the white whispers changed destiny. If aerith is able the see the sky from remake and then also transport the white materia to other worlds. Who is to say she can't force ghost to cloud.
Just a heads up max. The reason why Aerith looks like Sephiroth in some shots is because originally they were designed to look alike as siblings. So not to say your level 5 is wrong, but I have a better chance of winning the lotto. Also Jenova doesn’t work like that. So I applaud your devotion, but JENOVA has to be physically there. Also on JP there is no promise. That’s a SENA mistranslation
But Jenova is physically present around Cloud, as her cells are within Cloud, as they are within the other clones who transform into her. I do disagree that the Aerith survival is just a Jenova illusion, I think Cloud actually saved her to split a new Aerith alive timeline. (Rainbow on his sword, she shows up to fight Sephiroth and he acknowledges her and the tear in the sky that only Cloud can see)
Tifa and Yuffie crying at the end while the men disassociate by focusing on fixing the bronco is kinda based writing actually.
yeah, the writing in this game is awesome
Once again thank you so much. Almost 5 hours of this has me beyond hyped.
W
An absolute goat
Can’t get enough of Max talking about FF7
If only we didn’t have to wait years for the finale 😞
@@StarfireVR$**&*,v🎉***3
The entire ending is Tifa taking one big L.
Tifa: My best friend and only confidant just died... And now my love interest and oldest friend shut me out completely because he's become infatuated with a illusory version of my deceased friend he created to block out his own trauma... Now I can't speak to either of them...
Talk about pouring salt in the wound. I just look at her and feel bad now.
So the version of One Winged Angel in Remake was called “One Winged Angel: Rebirth,” giving us the subtitle for the second game. In the second game, Rebirth, the version of One Winged Angel is called, “One Winged Angel: Reborn.” So game 3, “Final Fantasy VII: Reborn?”
I noticed this a WHILE back, and I agree that it's definitely foreshadowing, but this time around, I feel like it's a little too similar to Rebirth's title, too, be the case. BUT at the same time, it very well could be.
I always thought Reunion would’ve been the best title for the 3rd game but they’re already had it for the Crisis Core Remake.
Reborn may sound too similar to rebirth but I guess we’ll see.
What about Final Fantasy VII: Revival?
It's possible it's Reborn. In terms of language, Rebirth is pre-tense(before being born) and Reborn is present-past tense
In an interview it was stated that they originally wanted Reunion to be the subtitle of Part 2, but since Crisis Core had it they were unable to use it so the naming convention of One Winged Angel wasn’t done purposefully.
I agree with Max's point that Cloud falling in his delusion that Aerith is still alive is in character because he did the same with his mom (he blocks out moments of her when he returns to Nibelheim) and Zack (literally blocks the entire context of his death and even rewrites it to be an event he couldn't do anything about when in reality he could have potentially done something if he hadn't been mako poisoned).
All those deaths are related to his own incapacity to do anything to prevent them, three people he cared about and cherished a lot.
God I remember this, I stayed up the entire night watching it even though I went in at 4 to work the next day. Just kept listening during it, kept me up with the hype
“Arsonius, thank you dude.” -Max Dood
Please tell me he's actually said this
@@gamemincraft1234 he has, Arsonius regularly donates on his streams so he often says this
@@AncientCityMusic Looks like they even have a good agreement to wait a certain amount of time before uploading these. Love his community.
@@AncientCityMusic that's great
There’s so many of these great moments that just get lost in all the vods
Thanks for the upload
Her excitedly saying, "Do you promise," right at the end when Cloud mentions that he would stop Sephiroth sells me on this theory. Aerith would NEVER have responded that way. From the moment Cloud looks up at Scaerith at the edge of the water I get bad vibes. The music is unsettling, and the way she looks is too. Something is very wrong. Something beyond Clouds fucked up mind. It could just be a delusion, but I don't think it is. I'm like 80/20. A lot of people mention Nanaki sensing Aerith like its some smoking gun completely disproving this theory, but Jenova tricked him in the OG. I don't blindly trust his special senses. They're senses, and senses can be fooled.
You can also tell it’s a facsimile IMO because of how she does nothing but quote lines from earlier in their adventures. The only exception is when she talks about meteor which is weird because I don’t even think that’s Sephiroth’s stated goal at this point. They’ve all had visions of it for certain and know what the black materia is but in this game that is what the Gi are up to. She’s clearly some made up version of Aerith using Cloud’s memory and his expectations of what Aerith might want or might say. Cloud did the same damned thing earlier in the game when he quoted Sephiroth in the materia cave. She’s creepy AF. In my first play through and first time seeing her I immediately had red flags that Cloud was either seeing a weird illusion or that it was Jenova. They didn’t frame her face in darkness and follow it up with a dead eyed smile by accident.
I watched this .... I think it is aerith... He also said about the red glint in her eyes on another pod .... That's just reflection of the bronco..... I think it's too deep here in theory. She is part of the stream looking out for her buds most probably
I want to believe that we'll eventually get to hear Cloud's monologue after Aerith's death. I need to hear Cody Christiansen read those lines, dude.
He did, he said so in an interview or a panel or something. Said there were a few lines he read that had a lot of emotion and weight behind them, to the point where the director and people listening in were getting kinda emotional.
@@RedheadButNotReallyugh this comment made me tear up and get goosebumps lol I hope you’re right
@@call_me_state280 he definitely will. I’ll even go as far as saying that not only we’ll see Cloud accepting Aerith’s death and laying her to rest in the lake, no, that moment will be a playable sequence where the player will actively carry her body to the lake. Just to hammer in the reality of the situation.
@@jarosbodytko6462 Oh fuck now if Cloud is the one who killed Aerith... that gonna haunt forever 💀
Same thing with aerith VA back in remake when cloud and aerith in the park talking about aerith's first love
Omg a 5 hour video of Max talking about FFVII. Sign me up!! Also 4:51:16 I believe the real Black Materia is still the temple. If you here as Cloud and Aerith fall together, the temple implodes into an object and falls straight down. It down there I believe Cloud gets the Black Materia that's in his pocket at the end of the game. Just my theory.
You channel is like the holy bible for any FF7 fan 🙌
I come back to this video all the time, because I can never get enough of Max and his almost child like wonder with this series. Only person outside of myself that i've even met that could just sit and talk up theories for this series.
Calling it now, omnislash Cloud will be various Clouds from different timelines slashing Sephiroth at the same time rather than just being fast as fu.
Wow, that’s a killer theory!
I actually thought of this too but it would be kinda lame would take away from it being just him and that being how he finally gets rid of Sephiroth
@@someoneelse9680 i also thought about multiple cloud's doing it and it can very well link with advent children where you see his 'afterimages' on each of the blades. but at the end of the day it just very much depends on how they execute it. 😁
That's cool.
But I think they're really being clear in avoiding the Time Cop paradox, in that only 1 can exist in a space at the time.
They actually show how it could look like in the theater play, Cloud literally start teleporting to grab the swords to attack Barret and Nanaki.
Also, Cloud using the power from the lifestream to divide himself to use a special attack sounds really cool.
It is almost like he is using a type of Materia.
Finally!! I watched this live but I have perspective now and really wanted to watch this again lol thank you!!
About 19:00-19:30 in. "They've been cooking this shit forever." Thirty years. The same developers. No work of fiction has ever had this much time, love, and care put into it. We're not just in unknown FFVII territory, we're in full out unknown fiction territory. From here on out, we can only guess. Thank's a lot, Arsonius, or Max Dood. Whoever you are; keep rockin' on!!!!
I would argue that Brandon Sanderson’s work on the Cosmere will be approaching this. He’s 20 years in and has built up an incredible universe thus far.
Funny enough, Brandon has cited being a huge FF fan and even used FFX as inspiration for one of his stories.
One Piece says hi lol
James Cameron sat on the Avatar script forever until the technology caught up to what he needed.
@@maxspecs just wanted to say that 😂
Twin peaks as well!
Literally finished the game a few hours before this video came out. Perfect timing 🙌 tyty
Max has the Aerith thing partially right IMO, but I think there are two Aerith's in that last scene, one before the flash he gets when he holds the materia and one after. They are two different Aerith's, one is real in the lifestream before the flash, and one after the flash that is a fake projection of Aerith by Jenova.
I was really against the Aetith is in his mind idea. But with the 'wake up' scene it may lead to that being part of that.
But, with Aetith showing up to fight, the rainbow cloud sword deflect, and the broken sky that only Cloud can see- there's still at least 1 Aetith left alive.
They'll use the 1 Aetith alive the same way they did the Life stream Aetith from OG.
Also, when the timelines converge to 1 at the end of the game, we get to see the final timeline Aerith die again.
Cause of course they would do that.
I could listen to max talk about ff7 forever. Never gets old
My favorite Max quote here was probably “Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck dude.”
I think it’s going to be Remember.
Remember you’re not him cloud.
Remember so the memories could restore the white materia.
Remember the true events of Nibelheim.
Remember that you really didn’t save her.
Remake, Rebirth, Remember
Nanaki was also experimented on by Shinra in a similar way to Cloud. This could explain why he can sense "Aerith" (almost certainly Jenova or Sephiroth or Jenova/Sephiroth) at the end. With the real Aerith saying goodbye at the very end of the cinematic.
He could also be experiencing something we weren't meant or allowed to see yet. But I'm 75% sure the Shinra connection is the key.
This. This is exactly it.
Well it could be that or the connection being that Aerith wants Cloud to see her and Red can sense her because he’s close to the Planet.
@@e.t.gohome8042 No. You're coping. Aerith is dead and that is NOT her in the final scenes. Max is spot on with the jenova manipulation and the fact that its the less popular theory only proves how subversive to most peoples expectations it is. It is all a manipulation.
Aerith in that final scene is just a soundboard, its all memories and lines she has said in the past, word for word, either in remake or rebirth. It is a mimic of a dead person. It is Jenova.
@@grayfarron5077 I’m actually not coping. We actually don’t know what happen to Aerith and I agree she is probably dead. However, that doesn’t explain why Red senses her and why that scene is objectively portrayed in a positive manner, even after they leave. There is even a shot that focuses on Aerith shoes which is exactly what is done at the church on the dream date. It’s foolish to room out the possibly that she is a spirit that can somehow still be sensed by Cloud.
@@e.t.gohome8042 man i cant wait to come back to this.comment in a few years
2:10:38 This Sephiroth guy sounds like a really nice person. He wants to make sure everyone has dis pear! 🍐😮
A big part of the "rainbows" hunt/theory is actually..the fandom kind of getting it right. The rainbows mean something, its.. apart of clouds delusion. The rainbows shroud and dull the harsh reality and kind of smudges out everything that doesnt line up with the "dream" he is creating. Especially in the scene at 4:11:00 where cloud leans down to Aerith on the ground, the rest of the party is THERE.. but suddenly they are gone as Cloud picks up Aerith and says "Hey, wake up." and everything is fine and dandy.
The rainbows arent a sign of timelines splitting, its a sign of cloud's psyche splitting.
So rainbows that are in the Mogstools are just a part of Cloud’s delusion? The group can see the mogstools and the moogle shop. It’s the same rainbow.
@@Locustskies Just because rainbows exist doesnt mean theyre all related, the rainbow symbolism in the saving aerith scene is all it applies to here.
Your logic that all rainbows are the same thing would also disprove the "Oh well rainbows mean a timeline has split" so... are you saying everytime cloud goes into the moogle world its a timeline split..?
@@grayfarron5077
You said yourself that the rainbows are a theory.
I noticed the same rainbow applies to the mogstools and just thought I’d point that out. Who knows if the rainbow is a mark of a new timeline? Or what it all means since no one is supposed to figure this out.
I have three theories myself for an ending regardless of the timelines. All that they prove is that both Sephiroth and Aerith can control them.
I like this theory but how does that explain the rainbow that shows up in the subway tunnel when Zack has to decide whether to save Bigs or Cloud?
watched this live stream. been missing the game so i’m happy to see this upload ❤
The core things that Sephiroth feeds off is why Aerith is the perfect counter. He gains power from your grief, which is why Awrith always tries to bring joy and happiness to weaken him.
Thank you so much for this. I was watching live when he beat it and really enjoyed the discussion he had with chat after.
This is so good after watching the recent Rebirth event where the devs talked about the intentions behind the ending. Max was so right.
Again thank you for the great vod!
Theory: Knight of the Round quest line will explain how Aerith becomes a summonable deity
Yessss let’s go!! This will get me through work for the next week at least.
Our Aerith:
Don’t worry about Sephiroth, I can handle him, he must be stopped by a CETRA, AND IM THE LAST.
Jenova/Aerith:
Do you promise you’ll stop Sephiroth for me Cloud?
It's just a bad translation. In the Japanese translation he didn't promise her and she didn't say that here I think it's the true translation for the Japanese one but I'm not truly sure okay.
Cloud: Will you be okay on your way home?
Aerith
What if I say it's not okay?
Aerith
This is Cetra's place.
Cloud
What
If something happens
Aerith
I'll give you a signal.
Cloud
Okay, I won't miss it.
Aerith: I'll pray a lot to stop the meteor.
So Cloud, do your best.
Cloud: Hurry and find Sephiroth and defeat him.
Aerith: I'm sure!!
Cloud
I'm sure :)
Well I guess it's the same but only the promise is not there.
Jenova isn't pretending to be Aerith lmao
@@jodaakbr7227 that’s an entirely different conversation, not a translation mistake. ‘I’ll stop Sephiroth’ is not the same as ‘go find Sephiroth’. ‘I’m sure’ is not the same as ‘promise?’. If your translation is the correct one, than the English translation is completely wrong and switched up the character’s motivations.
@@jonesy6354 I personally don’t think so either, but honestly why not? Jenova (and for that matter Sephiroth) clearly have the ability to do so. They both did it before and Jenova basically wiped out the entire Cetra people with that tactic. So yeah, while I agree with you, unless you can give a waterproof reason why Jenova isn’t pretending to be Aerith, it’s definitely a possibility.
@@jarosbodytko6462yeah they’ve paid so much attention to detail I doubt they’d let that one slip. I’m not Japanese but they can’t be that far off.
4:23:30 Plot twist, the Gi are a race of people that fled to Gaia from their home that was being eaten way my Jenova, and Jenova followed them to Gaia.
Were the Gi from Spira, maybe?
I believe Cloud saved her "in some way" and I wouldn't be surprised if Zack somehow meets up with Aerith and they have some input in the 3rd game together...
Because we still haven't seen Zack and Aerith even say hi to each other.
I think people playing rebirth were split into two groups after playing through to the end - whether they were confused about the ending or not. Those who were confused were _more or less_ successfully junctioned onto Cloud by the developers, as a means to be invested into playing part 3.
Those that are following along and are not confused (I.e believe Aerith is dead/alive in the lifestream, cloud being controlled by Sephiroth/tricked by Jenova, timeline fuckery is done and over with) are already along for the ride with part 3.
There never was any “timeline fuckery” it only became a thing cos of content creators
There's also those of us who followed along fine and still hated it; for focusing on multiverse 'plot' that we don't care about, at the expense of ruining the emotional impact of Aeriths death.
@@RL-vr8kp there is no “multiverse plot”
YEESSS thank you dood! Love it when you get us this stuff
I always wanted a video like this Max talking FF 7 theories anytime Max talks about FF7 and what could happen in the next game gets so hyped thank you for making this video 💯
Thank you 🙏
Sephiroth is not feeding on bad vibes.
he is tainting the lifestream. Thats the battle tifa saw. Thats why the planet refuses alien lives.
He is tainting the lifestream so Aerith wont succeed stopping the meteor.
It is funny how much his theories have changed, and even now its quite different than it was then with more info becoming available. haha
I think at 2:20:10 its Jenova in him that gets aware of whats up and she can use Clouds Fucked up State to later show up as her and tell him what to do. Like for example… to give Sephiroth back the Black Materia. Its fine :) Together with Sephiroth explaining to Cloud he was „lied“ to by Tifa. Something like that. Because for now we havent seen the good Jenova that is mentioned in the Mythologie. We have seen the Hate and Fear Version of her. Not the those we Love Version. Cloud thinks it is Tifa at one Point but thats as close as we get to it.
Im a firm believer that this will all come down to the whole story being the rebuilding of Clouds memories in lifestream in Mideel.
Comatose aerith had the terrier stamp, the dream date stamp is the pomeranian, also having to wait till at least 2027 suuuucks
Man this was such a treat to hear Max talk about ReBirth. Everybody is ready for the conclusion to this. I’m gonna listen to this again.
Awesome video I watched it all in one sitting lol, just really needed something to distract me from the bittersweet post game depression
Was a great watch :), one thing i wish i could was forget both remake/rebirth so i can play them back to back like they are the first time :), it does scare me thinking we only got 1 game left then its all over. I don't want it to ever end want it to be a constant mystery.
one thing i did notice is Cait Sith predictions the first two predictions the toys eyes blink Green, but the final one his eye blink red, maybe a subtle hint that the final prediction isn't written in stone yet?
2:53:48 What's even more fascinating about this is, one of the developers (I think Nomura) filled in some context to explain that Aerith also doesn't like the sky because she feels that's what took her mother away from her and she also essentially associates it with boundless terrifying freedom.
Your content has been so nice to follow when it comes to FF7, because you're probably as passionate and knowledgeable as me. And I love to see that same drive I got in someone else. xD
Thank you for uploading this!
Thank you for this Arsonius!!!
It's all aeriths doing. She saved biggs and zack and put then in a world together so they can figure out what's going on. Zack wouldn't be able to figure anything out by himself. When biggs accepted his fate, he returned to the planet, zack didn't. Zack ended up in clouds subconscious to give cloud the strength to defeat sephiroth. I don't think zack even fought alongside cloud, it was all in his head. I think aerith sent cloud to the edge of creation to fight sephiroth after zack ended up in clouds subconscious, because she knew the whole parry and zack would defeat him. Can't explain Marlene though, I'm sure we'll find out in part 3 how she knows so much.
Tip: You can stop Sephiroths Octaslash with Zack’s High Braver if you time it right. Thought it was pretty sick!
It may winde up being longer. You have to remember....they're adding wutai the weapons underwater and Ariel
Longer than 4 years? They have to tie up ALL loose ends too.
To upscale his combat, he will go into "Mosey mode" and it will be his strongest form! 2:50:04
With you 100% came to that conclusion also. Ending Aerith is Jenova. The music tells the story. When they're mourning by the lake too, music is hella creepy.
If I had to hazard a guess, I’d predict that Zack will eventually converge with the Remake/Rebirth timeline in some shape or form (like we briefly saw in this game). The game might build toward a convergence as part of the climax or final act, where Zack’s role will be a key point in determining the outcome of the story. His presence could lead to new possibilities for the characters' fates, with a similar ending like the main timeline (original FFVII), but with a different outcome for the character roster.
The shot Max discusses at 1:59:00 is nearly a 1:1 match with a shot in Advent Children - the scene Sephiroth explains his goal of using the planet as vessel to travel the cosmos. It's right before the actual fight between Cloud and Sephiroth starts.
I think Aerith became Jenovaerith the moment Cloud slotted the black materia into his sword.
No everything after the funeral is Jenova-Aerith. It's debatable whether anything after the kill and up until the funeral is Jenova.
It’s so funny seeing Omni-Max react to Max’s video
About the Cloud question.
One of the best things in this game, is how Cloud holds his Sword in the intro Nibalheim section VS how he holds it in the present.
They contrast this at one of the final Sephiroth fights as well.
I was just playing through again and I noticed when you hear the cetra voice explaining their fight with jenova in the temple of the ancients (when you see the green hologram of it), it says that it "is a deceiver who steals the faces of the dead", or something along those lines. Now that I hear that, I really do think Jenova is going to be using Aerith to haunt cloud in the next game, and at least some of what you see are her at the end of the game is jenova. I think it's a mix of his own mental block, her actual spirit, and jenova coming in at different moments. I think jenova is going to be a big part of his visions of aerith going forward though.
I think Aeris will still be playable but only Cloud can do stuff with her and the party will be like ‘who tf are you talking to?’
Here a thought maybe it was ever crisis sephiroth may be altering things from the edge of creation but sephiroth we see in the life stream alters the fix. What if ever crisis sephiroth is trying to stop ff7 sephiroth. Basically fighting hmself
Fantastic stream! Thank you.
2:02:45 we actually do know how cloud got memories of the other world. It was shown in remake. It was when he got in contact with aerith with the arbiters of Fate. When she gave him the flower.
Food for thought. Dev point, put in gameplay of various FF7 games from over the years of Cloud fighting Sephiroth. Mobile, Smash, etc. When Cloud is being pushed through time lines. It'd be fun to see. At about 1:32:45 of this.
Edit: Did they fight in Ehrgeiz? I don't remember.
@4:27:20 i thought the same. Red can sense her so it cant be Jenova but in the OG game when you choose to give the Black Materia to Red to protect even he gets fooled by Sephiroth immatating one of the party members and even he couldn't sense the difference.
That's why I believe Aerith is Jenova using Cloud to get the Black Materia to Sephiroth physical form.
Excited for 3 odd ball things
1.)seeing how the party blames/ are pissed at Cloud as they are going to the Northern crater. Seeing everyone dive into hatred and paranoia is gunna be insane
2.) How much depth they are going to get into the War with Wutai, magnus materia, the Weapons, and the Return to Midgar. Christ, in the original you had to set red flags to not get lost in Gaea’s Cliff. We saw how huge the world was in Rebirth..Part 3 is going to fucking deliver.
3.) Clouds redemption. If they are going to go heavy into the despair early on… the payoff is going to be worth it.
Max they do talk about meteor. Before Sephiroth appears to the party at the temple, the Cetra tells the party "The black materia will summon the destroyer of worlds. The meteor shall fall, sundering the skies..... shattering the Earth." So it would make sense that Aerith would know about it at the end if that is her. Or that Jenova is accessing Clouds memories to try and manipulate him.
Max, Sephiroth didn't merge timelines when he reset Cloud saving Aerith.
He said, NO, you're sticking to this timeline and reinforced the OG timeline.
But the sole surviver Aerith lives in a timeline only Cloud can see, as he was the only there.
But, we got two things out of this. We got a Coud Saved Aerith and a Sepheroth tweaked the timeline back on course and gave Cloud a mind Aerith.
My bet: at the N crater, Cloud at the lowest of his lows comes to the realization that his Aerith is dead.
When you fix Cloud's mind and uncover the Zax stuff, you'll also be realised to the fact that 1 Aetith exists in the timeline Cloud saved her.
That sounds like an awesome theory and prediction.
Well! You can of course think that. I think 100% that Arieth are dead and the Arieth that appears in the end of the game is either comming from the lifestream or happens in Clouds head.
@@AnjektusStudio that's possible.
Heres my thinking: 1, Sephiroth acknowledges her when she appears.
On the life stream point, She's using the weapon that you gave her in game and still has the white materia tied back in her hair, (which falls out when she dies). And we really haven't been shown how dead people in the lifestream work. Like if the can physically manifest. They never could in the OG.
So I think they're gonna use the similar beat as the OG, but rather than livestream Areith we have alternative timeline Aerith. We also never got her max limit break or ultimate weapon, so maybe playable in part 3?
Love you max, thanks for all the ff7 content
44:13 When looking with the perspective that the REUNION is that the timelines converge/merge in to the one where sepi sepi is alive aka the new primary one.
You would be right that sepi sepi could change the timeline to always be that She dies.
Didnt think about this, but it makes so much sense.
edit: 46:55 that effect on buster sword looks like Lifestream it self. Like pure lifestream
edit: 1:20:12 Zack reality aerith who is "soulless/in coma" will get the Soul from Clouds reality aerith, and aerith is back alive again. Then in the end She will stay with zack, because she is supposed to be dead in Clouds reality.. Heard it here first.
You can see similiar thing happen in 1:48:20 when Cloud enters other timeline clouds Soulless body.
edit: 1:39:46 The ending credit wrap up on the Train, and then it goes trough by few scenes from original and wraps the whole story how it went in original with PS1 gameplay footage and the real cradits come when OG cloud wins now restored timeline... Damn that would be a peak, doubt it will happen tough.
edit 3:27:58 I dont agree with dood, i do think that might actually be aerith, she does affect people like in Advent. and in Ending of OG ff7 where marlene goes "flower girl?". So this might just be Cetra thing where she can still travel linearally with time with these people who are still alive. "be next to them" because they still remember her strongly so she can remain next to them, and maybe cloud can see her because of the jenova cells, being jenova is heavily polluting the lifestream. Tought the aerith after death when sitting next to tifa, was MEGA creepy definetly had that "uncanny valley" feeling of something is off, and migh be right that it was a jenova.
So then there are 2 aeriths. first one that is the one that is UNSEEN but is next to other people being her self like a "spirit", like in ending cinematic.
The 2nd is the one cloud sees, like when holding her corpse or before getting in to the bronco at the end, telling to wakeup and when sitting next to tifa.
aka = cloud is fucked up bad, hope he goes limb soon, need to hero to wake up.
Basicly you cannot trust ANYTHING cloud sees or does, but if cloud is not interacting with aerith like in ending where Aerith is seen on the background looking at barret and the gang fixing bronco then that one is real one, the Spirit aerith.
well thats my commute listening sorted for the next week :)
True
After browsing through, its unfortunate that pretty much all the songs max reacted too have been cut. Guess I need to go watch the vods instead since those offer the best reactions and insight from max.
I am currently subscribed to the idea that the devs are borrowing concepts from Buddism for the lifestream, universes and world of FF7. Each dog we've seen representing a "timeline" is actually representing a state of being/conciousness. I believe in Buddism there are 7. With the 7th state of conciousness being Nirvana. As it currently stands, we know of 6 I think.
1.Beagle
2.Terrior
3. Pomerianian/Spitz
4. Pug
5. Shiba
I think there was one more but it is possible it was just a sad looking terrior where Zack gets gun down at the Shrina building.
Maybe next installment will merge all these into one to create a new Stamp. One that sorta represents the "best" or at least unified timelime.
And it looks like the lifestream is giving power to clouds buster . But I also think they are saying out of all the timelines there is only one possible time where aerith can be saved and sepiroth also feels he's in control of time but just as much as sepiroth is aerith is and instead omnipotent aerith in the one wake up scene that seems loopy where cloud is seeing her is her saying don't get upset over my loss you can find me . And I think cloud was supposed to get the both materia so this was possible . So even tho cloud is losing his shit he is having aerith trying to tell him there is hope . I have so many theories tho but I think thats the reason for cloud losing his shit is to not forget while everyone else is grieving that there is a chance only he can find but sepiroth don't want him to find it hence sepiroth looking for aerith in the one town towards the end of the game . She's trying to stay alive so they can all meet again .
Sephiroth said this in Cloud's trial in the Jessie death scene 'YOUR FRIEND DIED IN YOUR ARMS, AND YOU DIDN'T SHED A TEAR'
Possible linkage to Aerith's death???
Cloud cries and Sephiroth said 'DON'T WEEP, YOUR TEARS ARE EMPTY'. I may be mistaken but when Aerith died in Cloud's arms, Cloud only cries in current timeline and not in OG.
Ever considered that they all might be in separate realities at the same time? That's why they are all confused as to what each other is experiencing. They are traveling together and yet they are seeing and hearing things from different perspectives.
It's the literal meaning behind perception and points of view. Nothing is true while being simultaneously absolute.
Also, Remember Jessie's dad and his time in Mako Storage. Dude passed through the lifestream and ended up in another reality. He's alive, but trapped in another plane of existence. That's why I think Aerith is now with Zack in his reality. She woke up and will work with him on that side while the main party will chase down Sephiroth on their split ends. It will end with the Reunion. When all roads meet.
I read somewhere that in the conceptual phase, Aerith was suposed to be Sephiroth's sister or something along those lines.
Big big big change is that in the OG the temple itself is the black materia and once it shrinks it has the materia shape.
I haven't watched the whole video yet so I'm not sure if this point is gonna be raised but anyway.
Since materia are shown to be thoughts, memories, hopes and prayers, Cloud holding onto an empty vessel for them could mean that in the third game Cloud's own hopes could manifest into a new kind of materia. And I think it might be on the same level as Meteor and Holy, OR it could be the materia to end Sephiroth specifically. Whatever the actual materia is gonna be is of course a mystery but I'm almost 100% sure that it's gonna contain Cloud's wish/prayer for something
I will die on this hill - a punchy, conclusive title like "Final Fantasy VII: RETOLD" for the third game sounds like it could be really cool and effective to wrap up the 30-year cook
Always remember the immortal words: "What I have shown you is reality. What you remember... that is the illusion."
My theory is Aerith is alive in one time line (the one we fight with) and well encounter her at some point again, but I also can see other people's ideas of them wanting us to think that. When is Jenova manipulating us and it's intended to fool us so when we find were big shocked
As soon as I saw the screen flicker when everybody is mourning Aerith and cloud sees her sitting next to him and he smiles, I immediately thought that Sephi was messing with him. Cloud doesn’t know how to handle trauma and I also think that the fact that he’s mako poisoned and has Jenova cells makes him controllable and kinda weak
I think what happens in the end is that Cloud is perceiving two timelines simultaneously, and he is so fu**-up that he doesn't comprehend what's happening.
The game show us that he really saved Aerith in one timeline, and she is there until they part with the airplane, but this one timeline is doomed to cease to exist (showed by the scar on the ending that only Cloud can see because he is the only one perceiving both timelines). She knows this and sees him off, so that he can move on, and she stays waiting for Sephiroth to kill and merge that timeline again.
The other timeline, the one without the scar where Aerith died and the one that the entire party perceives, is that way because the game wants to show us that this is the one timeline that will not cease to exist (that goes like the OG).
The big theme of the original Final Fantasy VII is about dealing with death - dealing with loss.
Now the Remake/Rebirth Final Fantasy VII's are focusing on one of the most important aspects of dealing with death / loss - accepting it.
These games are about getting the fans to accept the death of Aerith.
Thanks for posting this
Calling it. Next game is either Retold or Recounted.
I did some unrelated research a while back n heard that in the Hebrew bible/language the word safer/sefer is book or writen document n the narrator said something along the lines of a book being a story recounted... I came up with Retold to fit the title structure but I thought since the last couple games titles were referencing Sephiroth why not the last? 🤷😅
Reloaded
I'm gonna go ahead now and say that Zack is going to sacrifice himself in the final game to save Cloud.
It would be really cool to see the Jenova theory of Aerith be true for the ending scene of the game. As they changed Remake's ending, it could be a sinister twist to see them remove Aerith's character completely from this ending scene of Rebirth, as she is not real, in theory. Showing Cloud observing someone who truly isn't there.
I think Aerith and Sephiroth in this Trilogy are the Visual Explanation of Lifestream White and Black. Literally. While Sephiroth takes over his Clones but Aerith doesnt want that. She doesnt like that Approach its explained. And everything that happens so far ads up 100% with what happens in the two Games. + some other new Aspects. But in Generell its that Story.
Well, tbf, i also think Jenova at some Point WILL explain to Cloud that Jenova-Aerith was a Fake and only there to manipulate him. In the Crater it makes the most Sense to me. But i might be wrong here. Maybe Sephiroth and Jenova are just playing together to get the Black Materia and thats it. Maybe we get the Tifa and Cloud Lifestream Szene after that and Tifa explains to Cloud that Aerith is gone and he needs to accept that is the Case because otherwise Jenova might always be able to get back and fuck him up. Hmmm. I like that outcome honestly where Cloud no longer is the „Master of his own illusionary Reality“ as he calls it in he OG.
I NEED ANY FF7 MAX CONTENT UNTIL THE NEXT GAME RELEASES.
Something I (should) keep in mind - and I've been watching Final Fantasy 8 plot theories in recent weeks, because UA-cam video rabbit hole - is that Sqex's choice of script, colours, symbolism, people, places, things, and plotting is entirely intentional.
OG FF7's cutscenes and plot layout are choppy and uneven. Maybe due to brisk art changes and cut content? FF8's cutscenes, etc, are more tightly directed and nothing is left to add sprinkles to the top. (The ending specifically, but also the opening matches scenes from it, like it's one continuous scene.)
I've been watching scenes in Rebirth like a hawk once I learned what Remake was trying to tell us, so I'm eagerly looking forward to the final game.
Alright! The story in FVIII are all over the place from my view. For exempel the flashback makes no sience and are poor story
There are no parallel universes. It's all in the lifestream. It's like summoning NPCs in Fromsoftware games or going to other players' worlds. You can't understand the story without understanding what a lifestream is or how it works. Materias are the crystallized state of energy. In Bloodborne, the energy in the blood crystallizes and becomes bloodstones. Both companies use very similar world-building details.
I wonder if when all three games come out if it will be possible to make a mod where you can play straight through all three with the same materia collection and combat system (i.e. Synergies in Remake, Remake's Enemy Skills in Rebirth). Or possibly release some collection later on that connects them. I know they run on similar engines but I don't know the in-depth parameters of something like that.
I feel like Aerith/Sephiroth/jenova is testing out whether they are hidden well enough and throughout the scene shows that they are especially when she looks down at red and almost smirks before lifting her head.
I think Aerith is fooling Sephiroth to think she is dead. When we see her saved by cloud it has the color whirls going all around then when it focus on Sephs blade as it pans down theres a shift and we see the sword angle is changed then blood spills out. Also when Tifa first sees Aerith there isnt any blood then the shift happens again and there is blood.
Yeah I think your totally right Cloud.
It was the white whispers that came out of the sword which changed the timeline... Sephiroth controls the black whispers. The planet and Aerith controls the white whispers.
The planet needed aerith to die so the white whispers changed destiny.
If aerith is able the see the sky from remake and then also transport the white materia to other worlds. Who is to say she can't force ghost to cloud.
Just a heads up max. The reason why Aerith looks like Sephiroth in some shots is because originally they were designed to look alike as siblings. So not to say your level 5 is wrong, but I have a better chance of winning the lotto.
Also Jenova doesn’t work like that. So I applaud your devotion, but JENOVA has to be physically there.
Also on JP there is no promise. That’s a SENA mistranslation
He explained there is an assess on a jenova boss that explains she can spiritually manipulate/ not physically be there
But Jenova is physically present around Cloud, as her cells are within Cloud, as they are within the other clones who transform into her.
I do disagree that the Aerith survival is just a Jenova illusion, I think Cloud actually saved her to split a new Aerith alive timeline. (Rainbow on his sword, she shows up to fight Sephiroth and he acknowledges her and the tear in the sky that only Cloud can see)
I literally can’t stop freaking out about Jenova. The party is in so much danger rn and we have to wait YEARS before we can save them.