Thank you very much Problems like this will drain a person's brain Im just nobody but I do fault finding for a very reputable Automotive repairing company specializing in VW and Audi Thank you you made a star once more
Bought a 3.6 Passat from a friend who said he's been throwing a p2293 throughout his ownership (2 years 12k miles) and never gave him any issues besides a CEL. My second drive I lose all power as if the car went into a limp mode and threw a P0016. I was certain they were both separate issues but your video has me convinced that the timing is off. Great video and great breakdown! We need more techs verifying these issues with scopes in the field. These waveforms you've gathered are gold!
I figure I'd update just to add to the legitimacy of these codes relation to eachother, I was completely missing 2 timing chain guides. They were so worn they broke and got shredded by the timing chains. I'm very lucky timing didn't jump as these are interference engines, scary to think about. I replaced guides and chains and the car runs great! Both the p2293 and p0016 are cleared, it's nice to have a clear dash again and that I'll finally be able to get this thing registered (Illinois emissions are a pain).
Yeah nice find. Every time I have seen the p2293 it’s been a fuel pump timing issue. Yours was so bad that it was throwing p0016 too. Yes you are very lucky it didn’t jump
Tom. Thank you very very much for the great information you provide. I just saw one of your other videos where you talk about DTC P2293 being a HPFP follower being damaged along with a cam shaft being damaged. Well it turns out that I just got an 08 AUDi A4 2.0 Turbo With the exact same codes you have just described P2293 , P0087, P0016 along with P0302 just from seeing this videos I have learned alot. I just subscribed to your channel. Again THANK YOU!! keep up the great work and God Bless.
Great case study. I can tell you that I have sat at home many nights saying how ridiculous a strategy is on a European vehicle. I give you credit for finding the root cause here and I think it is great how you are stressing the importance of scope testing. Nothing like pulling an engine apart to find out you wasted a number of hours. Great work brother.
Yeah definitely always learning in this field. And getting the info is like pulling teeth. I just couldn't believe timing was the cause. Everything pointed to the computer. You live and you learn.
Thank you for your knowledge, I had the same proble, new high pressure pump engine no start, used pump engine start but fuel pressure high. I did the timing and the new pump starts the Jetta 1.4 tsi, used pump fuel pressure drops to 50 bar at idle
Thank you tommy , you share yours mistake with us tech , that help us a lot.That is my first time I watched your video and I subscribed, keep going I see a good future for you.May God Bless You.
Thanks for this great info. I'm having a potentially similar issue on my 14 a4 2.0 with 120k on it. Just popped a permanent p2293 code. Then a week later has a random misfire with codes for cyl 1 and 3. And I was confused as to how my fpr 2 was in the hpfp and driven off timming. But with the misfire added and oil consumption I began thinking maybe my timming might be off. But I have a 14 which is supposed to be an updated timming system with the new tensioner. But my gut is telling me its potential to be another vag timming problem car.
Nice!! The strategy is sometimes "ridiculous" on many systems. However, i think the rail pressure sensor is there only to monitor the system, and flag the check engine light. The pulsing of the solenoid needs to be in sync with the pump to be able to generate enough juice. And i think that it always defaults to 90/100 duty cycle whenever a pressure problem is sensed. The O2 sensor would be able to re adjust the trims and the ratio. Not defending VW, but i think that this is not bad of an idea, as usually the problem would be low pressure. The system sure could use more brains, as to lower the pressure when higher than usual, however, who's to say that in any other case the sensor is right? So from a functionality perspective the system has a pretty nice fail safe policy. The problem is that it will always be harder to diagnose, as well as trying to keep up with 10 or 20 ssp's per day ;) Cheers! keep up the good work!
Thanks for watching. I think it's a terrible design. Why time the fuel pump? Obviously the computer is able to control the fuel pressure no matter where the pump is. The main input should be the rail sensor to control the duty cycle but it's not which I think is pretty dumb
excelent. the way i chek the 2.0 passat same yr, 2006 makes me think of a duty cilce problem to fuel presurre regulator solenoide at hig pp. but by whatching this video i need to focus on the timing, sepecialy w 170k miles and a previous worn out cam follower
My Thoughts. The PCM might up the pressure because it is out of time. Inlet pressure to a pump affects outlet pressure. So if the pump is out of time and the pump supplies a higher pressure at TDS, and the Computer know it out of time. Its going to supply a higher pressure all the time so the car can still run.
I learned The computer uses some logic with the cam and crank signals. it knows where tdc is for each cylinder and it wants to see a fuel pressure increase when each cylinder is near or at tdc. If it doesn't then it defaults to high fuel pressure. But when you disconnect the pump the fuel system defaults to low pressure and the car still runs. Obviously it would have lower power but it still runs. I think it's a dumb design and the fuel pump should not even be timed. It should be computer controlled hpfp based on the rail pressure
I have a 2007 Audi Q7 3.6L. it has a P0016, P12A4, and P2293. The dealer said it has the same 120 bar extremely high fuel pressure. I have replaced the low fuel pressure sensor, camshaft position sensors, fuel pump, used a multimeter to check the Camshaft adjustment valves, inspected the wiring and related fuses. No impact. The car has a slight rough idle for the first 7 to 10 seconds. Then it runs smooth and I've driven 4 hours at 80 miles per hour without any problems. Dealer thought the problem was probably the ECM. My car problem seems to line up exactly with that VW seeing as how two of the codes are identical and the high fuel pressure is exactly the same. Do you think fixing the timing chain would be the next logical step?
Just want to thank u bro for the knowledge I watched everyone one on of your videos definitely understand how think and what are thoughts when u see codes and how go about diagnosing without throwing the parts cannon u are spot on which is rare to see they days keep producing great content 🫡
Really enjoyed this video. Have you used iAtn? The have great waveform libraries. Also purchasing a pico scope from autonerdz you'll have awesome waveform libraries and great people to chat with. I have been using identifix direct hit. Try it for free it's definitely worth it. Going to watch your families other video now. Keep the great videos coming. I also watch Thomas EXOVCDS. He's from Canada. You'll enjoy his stuff. Do you work at a euro repair shop? Thomas does.
Thanks for watching! I couldn't find a known good on iatn I am a member. I have been wanting a pico just haven't got it yet. I have watched Thomas's videos. I am at a Vw dealer.
Positive Lead Diagnostics yikes... That is a seriously high pressure to send up a fuel rail. Have you ever witnessed a fuel leak on one of these? I think I prefer the "old" cars with the 3-4 bar regulators.
By exposing this information makes everyone a better technician.
Thanks so much for this. You are awesome!
Thanks for your support. Getting info is like pulling teeth. This info should be exposed so that we can diagnose it properly!!
Thank you very much
Problems like this will drain a person's brain
Im just nobody but I do fault finding for a very reputable Automotive repairing company specializing in VW and Audi
Thank you you made a star once more
Bought a 3.6 Passat from a friend who said he's been throwing a p2293 throughout his ownership (2 years 12k miles) and never gave him any issues besides a CEL. My second drive I lose all power as if the car went into a limp mode and threw a P0016. I was certain they were both separate issues but your video has me convinced that the timing is off. Great video and great breakdown! We need more techs verifying these issues with scopes in the field. These waveforms you've gathered are gold!
I figure I'd update just to add to the legitimacy of these codes relation to eachother, I was completely missing 2 timing chain guides. They were so worn they broke and got shredded by the timing chains. I'm very lucky timing didn't jump as these are interference engines, scary to think about. I replaced guides and chains and the car runs great! Both the p2293 and p0016 are cleared, it's nice to have a clear dash again and that I'll finally be able to get this thing registered (Illinois emissions are a pain).
Yeah nice find. Every time I have seen the p2293 it’s been a fuel pump timing issue. Yours was so bad that it was throwing p0016 too. Yes you are very lucky it didn’t jump
Thank you so much for this video. I'm having the same problem right now. Greetings from the Czech Republic.
Tom. Thank you very very much for the great information you provide. I just saw one of your other videos where you talk about DTC P2293 being a HPFP follower being damaged along with a cam shaft being damaged. Well it turns out that I just got an 08 AUDi A4 2.0 Turbo With the exact same codes you have just described P2293 , P0087, P0016 along with P0302 just from seeing this videos I have learned alot. I just subscribed to your channel. Again THANK YOU!! keep up the great work and God Bless.
Great case study. I can tell you that I have sat at home many nights saying how ridiculous a strategy is on a European vehicle. I give you credit for finding the root cause here and I think it is great how you are stressing the importance of scope testing. Nothing like pulling an engine apart to find out you wasted a number of hours. Great work brother.
Thanks for watching Joe I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yea what a dumb strategy. Hard to believe it was designed that way lol
great info, thanks for sharing. haven't had to deal with one of these yet and i hope i retire before i do. good job thanks again.
You very good at what you do everyone makes a bad call no matter how good you are
Yeah definitely always learning in this field. And getting the info is like pulling teeth. I just couldn't believe timing was the cause. Everything pointed to the computer. You live and you learn.
Thank you for your knowledge, I had the same proble, new high pressure pump engine no start, used pump engine start but fuel pressure high.
I did the timing and the new pump starts the Jetta 1.4 tsi, used pump fuel pressure drops to 50 bar at idle
Thank you tommy , you share yours mistake with us tech , that help us a lot.That is my first time I watched your video and I subscribed, keep going I see a good future for you.May God Bless You.
Thanks for this great info. I'm having a potentially similar issue on my 14 a4 2.0 with 120k on it. Just popped a permanent p2293 code. Then a week later has a random misfire with codes for cyl 1 and 3. And I was confused as to how my fpr 2 was in the hpfp and driven off timming. But with the misfire added and oil consumption I began thinking maybe my timming might be off. But I have a 14 which is supposed to be an updated timming system with the new tensioner. But my gut is telling me its potential to be another vag timming problem car.
I've gotten my timing chains and tensioners replaced and i still have these codes, the timing has been checked 2 times and is still perfect
What faults exactly? And how was timing checked?
Nice!! The strategy is sometimes "ridiculous" on many systems. However, i think the rail pressure sensor is there only to monitor the system, and flag the check engine light. The pulsing of the solenoid needs to be in sync with the pump to be able to generate enough juice. And i think that it always defaults to 90/100 duty cycle whenever a pressure problem is sensed. The O2 sensor would be able to re adjust the trims and the ratio. Not defending VW, but i think that this is not bad of an idea, as usually the problem would be low pressure. The system sure could use more brains, as to lower the pressure when higher than usual, however, who's to say that in any other case the sensor is right? So from a functionality perspective the system has a pretty nice fail safe policy. The problem is that it will always be harder to diagnose, as well as trying to keep up with 10 or 20 ssp's per day ;)
Cheers! keep up the good work!
Thanks for watching. I think it's a terrible design. Why time the fuel pump? Obviously the computer is able to control the fuel pressure no matter where the pump is. The main input should be the rail sensor to control the duty cycle but it's not which I think is pretty dumb
excelent. the way i chek the 2.0 passat same yr, 2006 makes me think of a duty cilce problem to fuel presurre regulator solenoide at hig pp. but by whatching this video i need to focus on the timing, sepecialy w 170k miles
and a previous worn out cam follower
Very helpful, explained well!
My Thoughts. The PCM might up the pressure because it is out of time. Inlet pressure to a pump affects outlet pressure. So if the pump is out of time and the pump supplies a higher pressure at TDS, and the Computer know it out of time. Its going to supply a higher pressure all the time so the car can still run.
I learned The computer uses some logic with the cam and crank signals. it knows where tdc is for each cylinder and it wants to see a fuel pressure increase when each cylinder is near or at tdc. If it doesn't then it defaults to high fuel pressure. But when you disconnect the pump the fuel system defaults to low pressure and the car still runs. Obviously it would have lower power but it still runs. I think it's a dumb design and the fuel pump should not even be timed. It should be computer controlled hpfp based on the rail pressure
I have a 2007 Audi Q7 3.6L. it has a P0016, P12A4, and P2293. The dealer said it has the same 120 bar extremely high fuel pressure. I have replaced the low fuel pressure sensor, camshaft position sensors, fuel pump, used a multimeter to check the Camshaft adjustment valves, inspected the wiring and related fuses. No impact. The car has a slight rough idle for the first 7 to 10 seconds. Then it runs smooth and I've driven 4 hours at 80 miles per hour without any problems. Dealer thought the problem was probably the ECM. My car problem seems to line up exactly with that VW seeing as how two of the codes are identical and the high fuel pressure is exactly the same. Do you think fixing the timing chain would be the next logical step?
Sounds like the high psi fuel pump is out of time. Sounds like you are due for timing chains
Hi i have a gti 5 2.0 2006 end i make a uprgrade to k04 . With 3 maps tuning i have the same problem p2293/ p0087 low pressure . What can i chek ?
will an unset timing belt cause same or similar problem?
Tommy thank you very much .
Wow that’s was a awesome video nailed it
Just want to thank u bro for the knowledge I watched everyone one on of your videos definitely understand how think and what are thoughts when u see codes and how go about diagnosing without throwing the parts cannon u are spot on which is rare to see they days keep producing great content 🫡
Well done as always Keep it up!
really nice explanation ☺
Really enjoyed this video. Have you used iAtn? The have great waveform libraries. Also purchasing a pico scope from autonerdz you'll have awesome waveform libraries and great people to chat with. I have been using identifix direct hit. Try it for free it's definitely worth it. Going to watch your families other video now. Keep the great videos coming. I also watch Thomas EXOVCDS. He's from Canada. You'll enjoy his stuff. Do you work at a euro repair shop? Thomas does.
Thanks for watching! I couldn't find a known good on iatn I am a member. I have been wanting a pico just haven't got it yet. I have watched Thomas's videos. I am at a Vw dealer.
Positive Lead Diagnostics check out autonerdz for your pico and try identix direct hit trial for free. let me know what you think. thanks
Will do thanks Richard
Nice video and good information. :)
exeellent
PLD , im having the same code and MBV 106 - gives me 137bars
Could be a timing issue. What engine?
I have a same problem with my audi q7 3.6 l code p0088 I need a good mechanic like you
1 bar = 14.5 psi. Is the normal spec really 40-50 bar? That is insane.
Yes. Pressure is through the roof! Yea spec is 40-50 This one is at 120! That's 1700 psi. Crazy
Positive Lead Diagnostics yikes... That is a seriously high pressure to send up a fuel rail. Have you ever witnessed a fuel leak on one of these? I think I prefer the "old" cars with the 3-4 bar regulators.
Never seen one leak. I hope I don't lol.
Gas directed injected runs at much higher pressure than intake manifold fuel injected engines. Some TDI diesel common rail engines run at 2000 bar!
Yea the pressures are ridiculous. Must be extremely cautious when working on these fuel systems
could this be the reason for my P12a2 code on 09cc sport?
What’s the description for the p12a2?
ty for responding, it is high pressure in the fuel rail. clears itself every now and then, but is now
I thought you posted this video already
This is the same video with some content update that I missed when editing the first video