P2293 Fuel Pressure Regulator Performance (upper limit exceeded)- caused by a timing issue
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- video update-there was some important info I left out in the original video!
I hope you guys like this video, its a little bit different and I hope it doesn't seem like I'm rambling on, this vehicle was a 2006 Volkswagen Passat with a 3.6l engine, customer complaint was a check engine light fault stored p2293 fuel pressure regulator performance upper limit exceeded, fuel pressure at idle was 120bar!! which is 1700 psi! this excessive fuel pressure was being commanded by the ecm. but why? this fuel pump is driven by the timing chain, and needs to be timed with the camshaft and crankshaft, but to check timing you need to disassemble the front end, intake manifold and valve cover, this video shows how to verify timing using cmp/ckp signals using a scope without disassembling (known good waveform is needed), and to show you how ridiculous this system is! Once again I hope you enjoy, let me know what you think.
also don't for get to check out my cousin mike at PSK Performance
/ @pskauto6798
By exposing this information makes everyone a better technician.
Thanks so much for this. You are awesome!
Thanks for your support. Getting info is like pulling teeth. This info should be exposed so that we can diagnose it properly!!
Thank you very much
Problems like this will drain a person's brain
Im just nobody but I do fault finding for a very reputable Automotive repairing company specializing in VW and Audi
Thank you you made a star once more
Thank you so much for this video. I'm having the same problem right now. Greetings from the Czech Republic.
Tom. Thank you very very much for the great information you provide. I just saw one of your other videos where you talk about DTC P2293 being a HPFP follower being damaged along with a cam shaft being damaged. Well it turns out that I just got an 08 AUDi A4 2.0 Turbo With the exact same codes you have just described P2293 , P0087, P0016 along with P0302 just from seeing this videos I have learned alot. I just subscribed to your channel. Again THANK YOU!! keep up the great work and God Bless.
great info, thanks for sharing. haven't had to deal with one of these yet and i hope i retire before i do. good job thanks again.
Great case study. I can tell you that I have sat at home many nights saying how ridiculous a strategy is on a European vehicle. I give you credit for finding the root cause here and I think it is great how you are stressing the importance of scope testing. Nothing like pulling an engine apart to find out you wasted a number of hours. Great work brother.
Thanks for watching Joe I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yea what a dumb strategy. Hard to believe it was designed that way lol
Thank you for your knowledge, I had the same proble, new high pressure pump engine no start, used pump engine start but fuel pressure high.
I did the timing and the new pump starts the Jetta 1.4 tsi, used pump fuel pressure drops to 50 bar at idle
Thank you tommy , you share yours mistake with us tech , that help us a lot.That is my first time I watched your video and I subscribed, keep going I see a good future for you.May God Bless You.
Bought a 3.6 Passat from a friend who said he's been throwing a p2293 throughout his ownership (2 years 12k miles) and never gave him any issues besides a CEL. My second drive I lose all power as if the car went into a limp mode and threw a P0016. I was certain they were both separate issues but your video has me convinced that the timing is off. Great video and great breakdown! We need more techs verifying these issues with scopes in the field. These waveforms you've gathered are gold!
I figure I'd update just to add to the legitimacy of these codes relation to eachother, I was completely missing 2 timing chain guides. They were so worn they broke and got shredded by the timing chains. I'm very lucky timing didn't jump as these are interference engines, scary to think about. I replaced guides and chains and the car runs great! Both the p2293 and p0016 are cleared, it's nice to have a clear dash again and that I'll finally be able to get this thing registered (Illinois emissions are a pain).
Yeah nice find. Every time I have seen the p2293 it’s been a fuel pump timing issue. Yours was so bad that it was throwing p0016 too. Yes you are very lucky it didn’t jump
You very good at what you do everyone makes a bad call no matter how good you are
Yeah definitely always learning in this field. And getting the info is like pulling teeth. I just couldn't believe timing was the cause. Everything pointed to the computer. You live and you learn.
excelent. the way i chek the 2.0 passat same yr, 2006 makes me think of a duty cilce problem to fuel presurre regulator solenoide at hig pp. but by whatching this video i need to focus on the timing, sepecialy w 170k miles
and a previous worn out cam follower
Very helpful, explained well!
Thanks for this great info. I'm having a potentially similar issue on my 14 a4 2.0 with 120k on it. Just popped a permanent p2293 code. Then a week later has a random misfire with codes for cyl 1 and 3. And I was confused as to how my fpr 2 was in the hpfp and driven off timming. But with the misfire added and oil consumption I began thinking maybe my timming might be off. But I have a 14 which is supposed to be an updated timming system with the new tensioner. But my gut is telling me its potential to be another vag timming problem car.
I've gotten my timing chains and tensioners replaced and i still have these codes, the timing has been checked 2 times and is still perfect
What faults exactly? And how was timing checked?
Nice!! The strategy is sometimes "ridiculous" on many systems. However, i think the rail pressure sensor is there only to monitor the system, and flag the check engine light. The pulsing of the solenoid needs to be in sync with the pump to be able to generate enough juice. And i think that it always defaults to 90/100 duty cycle whenever a pressure problem is sensed. The O2 sensor would be able to re adjust the trims and the ratio. Not defending VW, but i think that this is not bad of an idea, as usually the problem would be low pressure. The system sure could use more brains, as to lower the pressure when higher than usual, however, who's to say that in any other case the sensor is right? So from a functionality perspective the system has a pretty nice fail safe policy. The problem is that it will always be harder to diagnose, as well as trying to keep up with 10 or 20 ssp's per day ;)
Cheers! keep up the good work!
Thanks for watching. I think it's a terrible design. Why time the fuel pump? Obviously the computer is able to control the fuel pressure no matter where the pump is. The main input should be the rail sensor to control the duty cycle but it's not which I think is pretty dumb
Wow that’s was a awesome video nailed it
Just want to thank u bro for the knowledge I watched everyone one on of your videos definitely understand how think and what are thoughts when u see codes and how go about diagnosing without throwing the parts cannon u are spot on which is rare to see they days keep producing great content 🫡
Tommy thank you very much .
Well done as always Keep it up!
really nice explanation ☺
Nice video and good information. :)
My Thoughts. The PCM might up the pressure because it is out of time. Inlet pressure to a pump affects outlet pressure. So if the pump is out of time and the pump supplies a higher pressure at TDS, and the Computer know it out of time. Its going to supply a higher pressure all the time so the car can still run.
I learned The computer uses some logic with the cam and crank signals. it knows where tdc is for each cylinder and it wants to see a fuel pressure increase when each cylinder is near or at tdc. If it doesn't then it defaults to high fuel pressure. But when you disconnect the pump the fuel system defaults to low pressure and the car still runs. Obviously it would have lower power but it still runs. I think it's a dumb design and the fuel pump should not even be timed. It should be computer controlled hpfp based on the rail pressure
exeellent
Really enjoyed this video. Have you used iAtn? The have great waveform libraries. Also purchasing a pico scope from autonerdz you'll have awesome waveform libraries and great people to chat with. I have been using identifix direct hit. Try it for free it's definitely worth it. Going to watch your families other video now. Keep the great videos coming. I also watch Thomas EXOVCDS. He's from Canada. You'll enjoy his stuff. Do you work at a euro repair shop? Thomas does.
Thanks for watching! I couldn't find a known good on iatn I am a member. I have been wanting a pico just haven't got it yet. I have watched Thomas's videos. I am at a Vw dealer.
Positive Lead Diagnostics check out autonerdz for your pico and try identix direct hit trial for free. let me know what you think. thanks
Will do thanks Richard
I have a 2007 Audi Q7 3.6L. it has a P0016, P12A4, and P2293. The dealer said it has the same 120 bar extremely high fuel pressure. I have replaced the low fuel pressure sensor, camshaft position sensors, fuel pump, used a multimeter to check the Camshaft adjustment valves, inspected the wiring and related fuses. No impact. The car has a slight rough idle for the first 7 to 10 seconds. Then it runs smooth and I've driven 4 hours at 80 miles per hour without any problems. Dealer thought the problem was probably the ECM. My car problem seems to line up exactly with that VW seeing as how two of the codes are identical and the high fuel pressure is exactly the same. Do you think fixing the timing chain would be the next logical step?
Sounds like the high psi fuel pump is out of time. Sounds like you are due for timing chains
I have a same problem with my audi q7 3.6 l code p0088 I need a good mechanic like you
Hi i have a gti 5 2.0 2006 end i make a uprgrade to k04 . With 3 maps tuning i have the same problem p2293/ p0087 low pressure . What can i chek ?
will an unset timing belt cause same or similar problem?
PLD , im having the same code and MBV 106 - gives me 137bars
Could be a timing issue. What engine?
1 bar = 14.5 psi. Is the normal spec really 40-50 bar? That is insane.
Yes. Pressure is through the roof! Yea spec is 40-50 This one is at 120! That's 1700 psi. Crazy
Positive Lead Diagnostics yikes... That is a seriously high pressure to send up a fuel rail. Have you ever witnessed a fuel leak on one of these? I think I prefer the "old" cars with the 3-4 bar regulators.
Never seen one leak. I hope I don't lol.
Gas directed injected runs at much higher pressure than intake manifold fuel injected engines. Some TDI diesel common rail engines run at 2000 bar!
Yea the pressures are ridiculous. Must be extremely cautious when working on these fuel systems
I thought you posted this video already
This is the same video with some content update that I missed when editing the first video
could this be the reason for my P12a2 code on 09cc sport?
What’s the description for the p12a2?
ty for responding, it is high pressure in the fuel rail. clears itself every now and then, but is now
hello! I'm so glad I came across this video! check this. In March I had a 2008 A4 come in with the light on. it had two codes if I recalled correctly. A fuel pressure fault. I think it was p2293 or p0089. Also had a time code. either one for correlation or the valve timing solenoid. the solenoid was filled with oil in the connector so it wasn't working. That caused the correlation issue. changed that. For the fuel pressure issues I changed the fuel filter since it was never done and changed the low fuel pressure sensor since those are knowing to have problems. Sent the car away.
Two months later it's back at the shop for the engine light being on. Scanned it. Same codes. Shiiit. The solenoid we out it went bad. It was stuck and wouldn't move. It's aftermarket so that could be it. Changed it. With the fuel issue I had no idea what to do. I knew that the HPFP could cause it. But so could the intank pump. Or the high pressure sensor. So I fixed the solenoid and out went the car. Only to return this week! lol. This time though, the code was for low boost pressure. The diverter valve diaphragm was torn. Fixed that.
Now after just randomly finding your video something click. Couldn't the timing issue caused by the solenoid cause the fuel pressure codes?? I mean it makes sense based on what you're saying. Also both codes always showed up together! What do you think?
Ah. I just remembered the timing code when it came back the second timing. Over retarded. The solenoid was stuck either completely open or closed. So if the timing is off due to that I now suspect that it would through off the HPFP.